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Thread: What's the Right mix of players

  1. #21
    Fragile Little Kids? 3LH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiminator View Post
    It's been 5 years since that trade and is now starting to pay off, what was the point? It was a huge risk for no reason.
    Disagree. Kessel has been producing at a high level for a number of years with the Leafs. Huge risk for no reason? The Leafs are on the upswing in no small part because of that trade. What have the Sabres accomplished in that span with their hugely conservative approach?

    Anyway, this isn't about Phil Kessel at all. I only mentioned that as an example of what a team can do if they identify a need and have the sack to make things happen.

    My point is only this: I don't want to hear the excuse that the rebuild isn't progressing because of a lack of top-end talent. That problem is capable of being addressed.

  2. #22
    VIP Member Jiminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LH View Post
    Disagree. Kessel has been producing at a high level for a number of years with the Leafs. Huge risk for no reason? The Leafs are on the upswing in no small part because of that trade. What have the Sabres accomplished in that span with their hugely conservative approach?

    Anyway, this isn't about Phil Kessel at all. I only mentioned that as an example of what a team can do if they identify a need and have the sack to make things happen.

    My point is only this: I don't want to hear the excuse that the rebuild isn't progressing because of a lack of top-end talent. That problem is capable of being addressed.
    It has everything to do with Kessel..... yes when you trade away the very assets that are the building blocks of your team, you miss the playoffs for the next few years.. high performing or not..it didn't do squat for them.. or is the reason to do something like that just to make a splash and not propel you into the playoffs until several years down the road? If so, what was the difference, they could have just used their own pick to rebuild. Who won the trade Philadelphia who got Lindros or Colorado who actually won the cup?
    Last edited by Jiminator; 11-05-13 at 05:27 PM.

  3. #23
    Range Member foster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiminator View Post
    It has everything to do with Kessel..... yes when you trade away the very assets that are the building blocks of your team, you miss the playoffs for the next few years.. high performing or not..it didn't do squat for them.. or is the reason to do something like that just to make a splash and not propel you into the playoffs until several years down the road? If so, what was the difference, they could have just used their own pick to rebuild.
    Kessel gave them a player to start to serious build around. Additionally, had the Leafs had better goaltending over the past few years, that 5 year window could easily have been shortened to 2-3.

    For the Sabres it's time to identify the current core asset group - guys you feel have a true upside or are playing at/or have been shown to be capable of playing to the level of their expected position (Ex: Top 1-3F 25-30Goals, 4-6 15-20 Goals, 7-9 10-12 Goals, etc).

    After you identify these players start moving the one's that don't meet your criteria. It's basically balancing your portfolio. Some stocks you sell at a loss (Stafford, Leino), some at a gain (Vanek, Gaustad, Pominville), and some just plug along as expected. And in that balance it's OK to have a Grigorenko that MIGHT pan out, but you better keep a Girgenson's that really is starting to pan out. But if you flip Grigorenko for something with a better upside, do it.

    This team needs to make some hard decisions in the next 60 days or they'll end up right back where we started this season with no direction and not standing for anything.

  4. #24
    VIP Member Jiminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foster View Post
    Kessel gave them a player to start to serious build around. Additionally, had the Leafs had better goaltending over the past few years, that 5 year window could easily have been shortened to 2-3.

    For the Sabres it's time to identify the current core asset group - guys you feel have a true upside or are playing at/or have been shown to be capable of playing to the level of their expected position (Ex: Top 1-3F 25-30Goals, 4-6 15-20 Goals, 7-9 10-12 Goals, etc).

    After you identify these players start moving the one's that don't meet your criteria. It's basically balancing your portfolio. Some stocks you sell at a loss (Stafford, Leino), some at a gain (Vanek, Gaustad, Pominville), and some just plug along as expected. And in that balance it's OK to have a Grigorenko that MIGHT pan out, but you better keep a Girgenson's that really is starting to pan out. But if you flip Grigorenko for something with a better upside, do it.

    This team needs to make some hard decisions in the next 60 days or they'll end up right back where we started this season with no direction and not standing for anything.
    And Tyler Seguin wouldn't have? I would rather have him and Hamilton to build around than Kessel but that isn't the point. It has been rumored that Kessel wanted to be traded when they didn't come to terms. They overpaid for a hurt player because of pressure. They were on the bottom of the conference and no they weren't a goalie away from being a cup winner... Boston on the other hand won that trade and did it from a position of strength and won the cup. What model are we trying to replicate here Detroit and Boston? or Toronto?

  5. #25
    Range Member foster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiminator View Post
    And Tyler Seguin wouldn't have? I would rather have him and Hamilton to build around than Kessel but that isn't the point. It has been rumored that Kessel wanted to be traded when they didn't come to terms. They overpaid for a hurt player because of pressure. They were on the bottom of the conference and no they weren't a goalie away from being a cup winner... Boston on the other hand won that trade and did it from a position of strength and won the cup. What model are we trying to replicate here Detroit and Boston? or Toronto?
    Seguin absolutely would have been that player too. But for some reason they didn't value him in that position.

    I'm not looking to replicate the Leafs approach. At this moment, this team is still sitting at the dock. At some point they need to load the boat, leave the dock and head out to sea.

  6. #26
    VIP Member Jiminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foster View Post
    Seguin absolutely would have been that player too. But for some reason they didn't value him in that position.

    I'm not looking to replicate the Leafs approach. At this moment, this team is still sitting at the dock. At some point they need to load the boat, leave the dock and head out to sea.
    I agree, but I think we can fit more on the boat as we still have some aging assets to exchange out for some currency in the new world!

  7. #27
    VIP Member pi2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LH View Post
    Then go find it. Or you risk letting your nice young group of talent flutter around with no real direction until they leave.

    If they feel they need a top-end talent to be part of the core to build around, then go get it. The assets are available to get it done. But that would take balls.
    Like who? There are no top 20 players available for anything the Sabres have to offer. The only way they get a top 20 player or two is through the draft these days. The Sedins might be available, but they're 33, not good for building a team around right now. I would be interested in younger stars like Couture, Getzlaf, Tavares or Backstrom, but they simply aren't available and probably have Buffalo on their "no-trade" list.

  8. #28
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    Weren't the Sedins just re-signed?

  9. #29
    VIP Member ddpderek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikgaes View Post
    Weren't the Sedins just re-signed?
    Yes they just signed twin 6 year 7 million dollar a year deal

  10. #30
    Range Member radar's Avatar
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    The biggest problem with building a team and the right mix of players type talk goes on my deaf ears is that I have lost total confidence in Darcy to do the job. Darcy has say on scouting as well. I drank Darcys' kool aid for years, but don't now. In fact my theory is Darcy sold this whole rebuild scenario to buy him a few more years. Now he can say well it takes time blah blah blah and TP and TB are gullible enough to buy the program Darcy has devised.

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