Does this kill the BCS?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I mean, come on. Alabama, a team that didn't win its own division let alone conference, is going to get a title shot over OSU? What a horrid system.

[gilchristfan]

Who were you going to put in?

Oklahoma State? Who lost to Iowa St. and was literally within a yard of losing to Kansas State? I wouldn't have minded seeing OSU's offense go against LSU's D, but they blew it for themselves.

Stanford, who got whomped by Oregon? Every team that had a shot to be there blew it this year.

No one came close to beating Bama, except LSU, in what was an epic defensive game.

It won't make people happy, but those ARE the 2 best teams in the country.

To me, the bigger joke is the Michigan-V tech game in the Sugar Bowl. Were either even in the top 15?

[JEvans14]

Oklahoma St. hasn't lost in regulation. It was good enough for LSU a few years ago, should be good enough here. SEC bias won out. You don't win your conference, much less your division, you shouldn't have a shot at a title.

And what if Bama wins? LSU/Bama is a 1-1 series tie. That's shit.

[BLeonard]

Here's the major issue I have with a rematch:

Their big argument against a playoff is the "Every Game Counts" mantra. Hell, it's in their the Twitter and Facebook addresses:

Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/everygamecounts
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/EveryGameCounts

So with a LSU/Alabama rematch as the National Championship game, I think it's safe to say that their first meeting (which Bama lost at HOME) didn't "count."

I can also say that Oklahoma State's win over Oklahoma to win the Big 12 Championship this past weekend "didn't count." OSU was ranked #3 in the BCS prior to and after, they drubbed Oklahoma. Meanwhile, Bama sat at home, because they didn't qualify for their championship. So, as far as BCS standings goes, OSU's win meant nothing.

Meanwhile, Virginia Tech gets beat by 4 tocuhdowns and they get rewarded with an invite to the Sugar Bowl. So, apparently, like Alabama's loss, that really "didn't count" either.

I also don't think it's mere coincidence that the National Title Game is being played in New Orleans, which is just a hop, skip and a jump from Tuscaloosa. I also don't think it's a coincidence that ESPN (who happens to be televising the game) is only a couple years into a 15 year deal with the SEC...

Quite simply: An Alabama/LSU rematch will likely bring in more money for all parties concerned, than a LSU/Oklahoma State game would. In the end, we know that the BCS is more about making money than they ever will be about figuring out a true National Champion.

-Bill

[Block "O"]

The whole BCS is a joke. Forget about the national championship game. Look at the Sugar Bowl, VT gets owned twice by Clemson and get in.....Michigan State was in the Big Ten Championship game and lost a close one to Wisconsin and they get passed over by Michigan WHO THEY BEAT BY THE WAY. Then you have teams like TCU, Boise State, and Baylor all passed over who would have made many of these bowls much better games. This years Sugar Bowl has to be one of the most pathetic match ups in its history. I can't decide which game I want to watch less, the National Championship or the Sugar Bowl. This years Orange Bowl will show why the Big East doesn't deserve an automatic bid into the BCS. Thank you sEcSPN.

[JEvans14]

Jay Bilas was going off on Twitter last night about this (he's hilarious to follow, I recommend following him to everyone)

All from Jay Bilas (@JayBilas)

Every game counts in college football (except for the LSU-Bama game in Tuscaloosa). Looking forward to the Do-Over Bowl in over a month!!

Once again, none of Boise State's games counted. Va Tech plays in the Sugar Bowl after getting killed by Clemson?! Lame.

Every game counts? SEC title game didn't count! LSU loses, still in BCS title game. Big 12 title game didn't count. OSU wins, and still out.

Every game counts? Michigan State beats Michigan, plays in tight Big Ten title game. Wolverines stay home, and go to BCS bowl game. Huh?!

Boise State finishes 7th in BCS standings, plays in MAACO Las Vegas Bowl. Every game counts (except LSU-Bama, SEC title, OSU-OU). Lame.

If LSU had lost, Tigers would've been in BCS title. 'Bama in without playing, and with OSU winning. Games were meaningless.

@PhuzzieSlippers @8BLU_MNMs Alabama got a mulligan. And, not a single game counted yesterday. All were exhibitions only.

Indisputable fact: not a single college football game played yesterday counted for BCS title purposes. Not one. All were just exhibitions.

@JeffInLex The point was, if LSU loses, they are still in the title game. LSU in with a loss, Bama in without playing, OSU out with a win.

Football: Argue over who's No. 3, and shut out the rest. Basketball: Argue over who's No. 38, and play it off. Every game counts? Really?

@Campersworld Playoff may not give best team, but it gives a champion. Super Bowl may not give best team. Heck, BCS may not give best team.

[machu46]

Oklahoma St. hasn't lost in regulation. It was good enough for LSU a few years ago, should be good enough here. SEC bias won out. You don't win your conference, much less your division, you shouldn't have a shot at a title.

And what if Bama wins? LSU/Bama is a 1-1 series tie. That's shit.

Well, Patriots and Giants finished in a 1-1 series tie.

I want a playoff system because I think it's shit that only 2 teams have a chance at playing for the championship when usually much more than that deserve a chance, but the argument that Alabama shouldn't get another chance at LSU because they played already is dumb.

[nyjunc]

Well, Patriots and Giants finished in a 1-1 series tie.

I want a playoff system because I think it's shit that only 2 teams have a chance at playing for the championship when usually much more than that deserve a chance, but the argument that Alabama shouldn't get another chance at LSU because they played already is dumb.

The 2nd game was after winning playoff games to earn the right to play for the title. Bama didn't even get to their conf title game, w/o a playoff how can a team that didn't win their conf win the Nat'l Title? CFB is a complete joke.

[BanditsRock11]

I wish they'd do a 4 team playoff.

LSU-Standford

Alabama-Oklahoma State

The winners play for the title. Though personally I think Oregon is better than Standford and I'd put them at 4.

[machu46]

The 2nd game was after winning playoff games to earn the right to play for the title. Bama didn't even get to their conf title game, w/o a playoff how can a team that didn't win their conf win the Nat'l Title? CFB is a complete joke.

My point is that the whole argument that they shouldn't play each other because if Alabama wins than all they really did was tie the season series is stupid. It's the championship game. The winner of this game is the champion.

But I agree that the BCS is stupid. There should be a playoff system.

[gilchristfan]

I could live with a playoff, in fact I'd love a playoff.

And I get that people are tired of watching the SEC in title game every year too.

But outside of breaking up the SEC (maybe not a bad idea), I don't know how you're going to fix it.

Last year's game was pretty good, but that's the first good game in years.

There were better match ups than they were games.

Bama -Texas Florida - Oklahoma weren't that great of games.

Watching Florida and LSU beat up Ohio State was embarrassing.

I guess there are arguments for putting Okla State in the title game...by default, but I kinda like to see a game that isn't a blow out.

[gilchristfan]

The 2nd game was after winning playoff games to earn the right to play for the title. Bama didn't even get to their conf title game, w/o a playoff how can a team that didn't win their conf win the Nat'l Title? CFB is a complete joke.

If not Alabama, then who?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Who were you going to put in?

Oklahoma State? Who lost to Iowa St. and was literally within a yard of losing to Kansas State? I wouldn't have minded seeing OSU's offense go against LSU's D, but they blew it for themselves.

Stanford, who got whomped by Oregon? Every team that had a shot to be there blew it this year.

No one came close to beating Bama, except LSU, in what was an epic defensive game.

It won't make people happy, but those ARE the 2 best teams in the country.

To me, the bigger joke is the Michigan-V tech game in the Sugar Bowl. Were either even in the top 15?

Why does OSU "blow it" by losing to ISU but Bama didn't blow it with LSU? OSU won their conference. Bama actually got an extra bye week and a free trip to the NCG by losing to LSU. What people are saying is that OSU needed to go undefeated to jump Bama, why does Bama get a free 1/2 game lead?

Personally, I would make it a rule that only conference champions can go to the NCG. Would it occasionally result in a 2 loss team going over a 1 loss team? Yes, but tough cookies. Take care of business in your conference or you shouldn't be Champion.

Agree 100% with the Sugar Bowl. J-O-K-E pairing.

[gilchristfan]

Why does OSU "blow it" by losing to ISU but Bama didn't blow it with LSU? OSU won their conference. Bama actually got an extra bye week and a free trip to the NCG by losing to LSU. What people are saying is that OSU needed to go undefeated to jump Bama, why does Bama get a free 1/2 game lead?

Alabama didn't lose to a 6-6 unranked team. They lost in overtime to the no. 1 ranked team in the country a game in which they didn't give up a TD.

Personally, I would make it a rule that only conference champions can go to the NCG. Would it occasionally result in a 2 loss team going over a 1 loss team? Yes, but tough cookies. Take care of business in your conference or you shouldn't be Champion.

The Big 10 (or whatever it is now) and Big 12 would love that. If they can keep the SEC out, they might actually win one.

Agree 100% with the Sugar Bowl. J-O-K-E pairing.

Boise State gets hosed again. They don't like to see them beat teams from the bigger conferences.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Alabama didn't lose to a 6-6 unranked team. They lost in overtime to the no. 1 ranked team in the country a game in which they didn't give up a TD.

Since when is it "best loss"? OSU had a tougher schedule (#7 vs. #42), had 7 wins vs. winning programs vs. Bama's 3. The loss to ISU came less than 24 hours after the head coach's best friend died in a plane crash. It was also in overtime. And of course, unlike Bama they won their conference. You are praising Bama for losing to LSU at home but docking OSU for not beating #11 KSU by enough? Bama had their chance to take down LSU and failed.

Besides, this is the exact same argument that SEC fans use to pump themselves up.
"See, the SEC is so deep even the lower teams can upset the top ones. The SEC grind yadda yadda"

but when it happens to a Big 10 or Big 12 team
"Haha, lost to a chump!"

The Big 10 (or whatever it is now) and Big 12 would love that. If they can keep the SEC out, they might actually win one.

The Big 10 was in this situation in 2006, only #2 Michigan was 'clearly' the #2 after losing to #1 OSU in one of the best games of all time. Then Florida jumped them when UM had a week off and the rest is history. But I guess only SEC teams get the benefit of that. Besides, under the conference champion rule the SEC would have a pretty good case in most years, just not both in the same year.

Boise State gets hosed again. They don't like to see them beat teams from the bigger conferences.

Ain't that the truth.

[gilchristfan]

Since when is it "best loss"? OSU had a tougher schedule (#7 vs. #42), had 7 wins vs. winning programs vs. Bama's 3.

I'd like to see who did the SOS schedules. Okla St. didn't have the 7th toughest schedule in the nation.

A & M was less than average;
this was a below average Texas team;
Mizzou wasn't close to what it was in the Chase Daniels years;
Iowa St. was Iowa st.
Kansas was terrible, even for Kansas.

They beat Oklahoma and Kansas St. I love what Kansas St. did this year, and think Bill Snyder once again could have coached himself into a Coach of the Year title...but if you watched them play this year...they weren't that good, and I'm a KSU fan. How they did what they did with the talent they had is incredible.

In a good year, the Big 12 isn't on par with the SEC, and this wasn't a good year for the Big 12.

The loss to ISU came less than 24 hours after the head coach's best friend died in a plane crash. It was also in overtime.

A loss to ISU isn't a loss to LSU. This isn't even close. I'm sure even Mike Gundy understands that.

And of course, unlike Bama they won their conference. You are praising Bama for losing to LSU at home but docking OSU for not beating #11 KSU by enough? Bama had their chance to take down LSU and failed.

They were literally one play away from losing to KSU. The Cats had the ball at the OSU 2 on the last play. KSU isn't LSU.

Besides, this is the exact same argument that SEC fans use to pump themselves up.
"See, the SEC is so deep even the lower teams can upset the top ones. The SEC grind yadda yadda"

That's the thing...the SEC doesn't need anyone to "pump themselves up". They have 5 straight national titles, played against 3 different conferences, to pump them up. That includes 2 convincing victories against the Big 12 and 2 poundings of the Big 10.

If anything, they've earned the right to claim conference preference.

but when it happens to a Big 10 or Big 12 team
"Haha, lost to a chump!"

If the Big 12 didn't blow it in their big games, they'd have a leg to stand on.

The Big 10....I don't know how a conference can continue to get pounded the way they do in Bowl games and claim...anything. Possibly the most overrated conference, in any sport, ever. I grew up as a fan of Michigan in the 70's, and they'd get killed in bowl games, after being a top 5 rated team. Decades later, the Big 10 continues to get embarrassed in bowl games.

The Big 10 was in this situation in 2006, only #2 Michigan was 'clearly' the #2 after losing to #1 OSU in one of the best games of all time. Then Florida jumped them when UM had a week off and the rest is history. But I guess only SEC teams get the benefit of that. Besides, under the conference champion rule the SEC would have a pretty good case in most years, just not both in the same year.

Yep, Ohio St. got pummeled by Florida in the title game and Michigan got pounded by USC in the Rose Bowl. The big joke was that either of them were considered 1 or 2 in the country.

But hey, Ohio st. was undefeated and Michigan only lost once!.

Thanks for proving my point.

I'm not even a big fan of the SEC, but I do recognize the quality of play there, especially the est division.

I'd love to see a few conferences come on par with them, but that hasn't happened for the last 5-6 years or more.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'd like to see who did the SOS schedules. Okla St. didn't have the 7th toughest schedule in the nation.

CBS Sports has them 5th to Bama's 30th (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/120)
USA Today [Sagarin] has them at 6th to Bama's 23rd (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagar...terstitialskip)

A & M was less than average;
this was a below average Texas team;
Mizzou wasn't close to what it was in the Chase Daniels years;
Iowa St. was Iowa st.
Kansas was terrible, even for Kansas.

Is anyone claiming Kansas is one of OSU's quality wins? And have you applied this same rigorous analysis to Bama's schedule?

Kent State W 48-7 --
(23) Penn State W 27-11 --
North Texas W 41-0 --
(14) Arkansas W 38-14 --
at (12) Florida W 38-10 --
Vanderbilt W 34-0 --
at Mississippi W 52-7 --
Tennessee W 37-6 --
(1) LSU L 6-9 --
at Mississippi State W 24-7 --
Georgia Southern W 45-21 --
at Auburn

Arkansas and Penn State are their only big wins (as this was when PSU has Paterno). Florida was grossly overrated, as their 6-6 finish strongly suggests.

They beat Oklahoma and Kansas St. I love what Kansas St. did this year, and think Bill Snyder once again could have coached himself into a Coach of the Year title...but if you watched them play this year...they weren't that good, and I'm a KSU fan. How they did what they did with the talent they had is incredible.

Downtalk KSU all you want, the voters considered them a Top 10ish team depending on which poll you look at. But in addition to those two, they also beat Baylor (RG3 is rumored to have won the Heisman).

In a good year, the Big 12 isn't on par with the SEC, and this wasn't a good year for the Big 12.

See, this is the exact SEC bias I'm talking about. The top tier of the SEC truly is elite. But people hype the crap out of the middle and lower tier teams like this year's Florida, Ole Miss, MSU, Vandy, UT, etc. And then the snake eats its own tail because the top teams are praised for pummeling these over-hyped bad teams. That's why you brush off OSU's wins over 7-5 Texas and 6-6 Texas A&M in favor of Bama's wins over 7-5 Auburn and 6-6 Florida. Does the SEC have elite teams? Of course, absolutely. Are ALL of them elite? Absolutely not.

They were literally one play away from losing to KSU. The Cats had the ball at the OSU 2 on the last play. KSU isn't LSU.

So? They didn't lose. Now you're giving them hypothetical losses? Why not give them a hypothetical win for missing a chipshot FG that would have beaten ISU in regulation.

That's the thing...the SEC doesn't need anyone to "pump themselves up". They have 5 straight national titles, played against 3 different conferences, to pump them up. That includes 2 convincing victories against the Big 12 and 2 poundings of the Big 10.

If anything, they've earned the right to claim conference preference.

So you're flat out admitting bias then? This isn't 2007 or even 2010. The same Auburn that won the National Title last year needed a furious rally to beat Utah State at home this year. Teams should be judged on what they do this season. You are giving Alabama a half-game lead because of things that happened in the past.

[theJATM]

Who were you going to put in?

Oklahoma State? Who lost to Iowa St. and was literally within a yard of losing to Kansas State? I wouldn't have minded seeing OSU's offense go against LSU's D, but they blew it for themselves.

Stanford, who got whomped by Oregon? Every team that had a shot to be there blew it this year.

No one came close to beating Bama, except LSU, in what was an epic defensive game.

It won't make people happy, but those ARE the 2 best teams in the country.

To me, the bigger joke is the Michigan-V tech game in the Sugar Bowl. Were either even in the top 15?

michigan was in the top 15. 13th actually. michigan was a bad call away from being 11-1 rather than be 10-2. or at least a chance to tie the game that would have sent that game to over time. michigan wins that game, they are in the big 10 championship game. and given how good their defense was this year, they could have hung in there with wisconsin. but probably not beat them.

[theJATM]

Agree 100% with the Sugar Bowl. J-O-K-E pairing.

dunno if you watching michigan this year, but they were a bad call from having a chance to be 11-1 in iowa. and michigan did beat some pretty good teams. and crushed nebraska.

[nyjunc]

My point is that the whole argument that they shouldn't play each other because if Alabama wins than all they really did was tie the season series is stupid. It's the championship game. The winner of this game is the champion.

But I agree that the BCS is stupid. There should be a playoff system.

My problem is Bama didn't earn the right to play for the title, they didn't even make their conf title game. if there isn't a Tourney then you should at least have to win your conf title game to make the Nat'l title game(or at the very least make the conf title game).

If not Alabama, then who?

I guess Okie State, they have better wins on their sched w/ a worse loss but they won their conference and they didn't get a crack at LSU at home like Bama did.

CFB is a complete joke, the only sport where you can lose your last game and still advance to play for a championship.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

dunno if you watching michigan this year, but they were a bad call from having a chance to be 11-1 in iowa. and michigan did beat some pretty good teams. and crushed nebraska.

Again with the hypothetical wins. Michigan State finished higher than them, beat them, and won their division. If non-conf. winners belong in the other games (which is ok with me, just not the NCG) then Boise also has a better ranking and record. Admittedly though, Michigan has a much better argument than VaTech.

[gilchristfan]

CBS Sports has them 5th to Bama's 30th (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/120)
USA Today [Sagarin] has them at 6th to Bama's 23rd (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagar...terstitialskip)



Is anyone claiming Kansas is one of OSU's quality wins? And have you applied this same rigorous analysis to Bama's schedule?



Arkansas and Penn State are their only big wins (as this was when PSU has Paterno). Florida was grossly overrated, as their 6-6 finish strongly suggests.



Downtalk KSU all you want, the voters considered them a Top 10ish team depending on which poll you look at. But in addition to those two, they also beat Baylor (RG3 is rumored to have won the Heisman).



See, this is the exact SEC bias I'm talking about. The top tier of the SEC truly is elite. But people hype the crap out of the middle and lower tier teams like this year's Florida, Ole Miss, MSU, Vandy, UT, etc. And then the snake eats its own tail because the top teams are praised for pummeling these over-hyped bad teams. That's why you brush off OSU's wins over 7-5 Texas and 6-6 Texas A&M in favor of Bama's wins over 7-5 Auburn and 6-6 Florida. Does the SEC have elite teams? Of course, absolutely. Are ALL of them elite? Absolutely not.



So? They didn't lose. Now you're giving them hypothetical losses? Why not give them a hypothetical win for missing a chipshot FG that would have beaten ISU in regulation.



So you're flat out admitting bias then? This isn't 2007 or even 2010. The same Auburn that won the National Title last year needed a furious rally to beat Utah State at home this year. Teams should be judged on what they do this season. You are giving Alabama a half-game lead because of things that happened in the past.

The only "bias" is believing that an 11-1 Big 12-Big 10 record => an 11-1 SEC record.

I don't know how many beat downs they have to do in the NC game against these conference to show there is a difference in the level of play.

Damn, this is like having the argument with what was his name, Triple Pac, or whatever, when he was trying to defend Ohio St. in their national championship games. He'd throw out all of these records, stats, margins of victory, etc, etc.

Then the games were played.

I really wasn't downplaying, I've caught nearly every game they've played this year. I love Bill Snyder, and think he's one of the greatest college coaches of all time. And I love what he did this year.

And I watched his team put up 36 on Baylor, 41 on TT, 53 on A & M and a whopping 45 on Oklahoma St.

But watching Bama play several times this year, K State would do good to put up 10 or 14 on them.

I wish it were different.

Maybe they can break up the SEC.

They don't need "bias", their record in NC games speaks for itself.

If anything, I'd put Boise St. or TCU into the NC game, just to see what happened.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The only "bias" is believing that an 11-1 Big 12-Big 10 record => an 11-1 SEC record.

Exactly. You are saying that 11-1 in the SEC is better than 11-1 anywhere else just based on the SEC's rep. The computers and Polls disagree with the strength of that SEC schedule, but you counter with evidence from previous years. Cam Newton, Mark Ingram, and Tim Tebow aren't in the SEC any more. This year OSU played a tougher schedule. This year OSU won its own conference. It was annoying enough when the SEC champion got a de facto slot in the title game, but now the #3 team in the SEC gets one too? Just give the title to the SEC Champion and pick some interesting games. If you aren't even going to give other conferences the opportunity to knock the SEC off anymore, then why bother?

[BLeonard]

I guess there are arguments for putting Okla State in the title game...by default, but I kinda like to see a game that isn't a blow out.

So, how do you know that OK State would get blown out? How do you know the LSU/BAMA game won't be a blowout?

Like I said before, the big crutch that the BCS people love to lean on is "Every Game Counts."

Now, there's a rematch... So, really, the "Game of the Century" didn't even count... How screwed up is that that a game that's called the "Game of the Century" doesn't mean jack shit at the end of the season?

Look at all of the conference championship games from this past weekend. Did any winner of any of those games help themselves in the BCS standings? How can "Every Game Count" when the conference Championships did nothing to improve the winning team's final ranking?

Hell, Va Tech LOST and, as a result, got a BCS Bowl bid.

Michigan State, who got to the championship game, ends up losing and, as a result, Michigan gets in a BCS Bowl gae ahead of them. I'm a Michigan fan, so you KNOW when I'm making a case for Michigan State, something is ****ed up.

Houston could have gone undefeated and STILL would not have gotten a chance at a Championship... So, you could say that NONE of their games "count."

How in the hell can anyone claim that "Every Game Counts" when they clearly don't?

-Bill

[theJATM]

Again with the hypothetical wins. Michigan State finished higher than them, beat them, and won their division. If non-conf. winners belong in the other games (which is ok with me, just not the NCG) then Boise also has a better ranking and record. Admittedly though, Michigan has a much better argument than VaTech.

hypothetical wins DO count for something though. my point was michigan was a MUCH better team then people think, and even better than their record shows.