Official 2011-2012 Big East and ACC basketball thread

[machu46]

Absolutely pitiful performance by Syracuse, especially in the first half. Christmas could have had 50 today if our guards weren't so selfish, and Boeheim's stubbornness not to play Carter-Williams, not to press, not to look inside, and not to run an offensive set nearly cost us.

Regarding the refs, the out of bounds play was absolutely a bad call, but the lane violation was a lane violation. Two guys actually committed the violation. And at the end of the day, UNCA was gift-wrapped 6 or 8 points in the first half on a BS goaltend call, blown backcourt call that led to a 4 point play, and then the foul on Triche at the end of the half.

[ScrotumRocket]

frustrating to watch. Christmas was manhandling their bigs down low. Why they didn't feed down low all game is beyond me.

[machu46]

frustrating to watch. Christmas was manhandling their bigs down low. Why they didn't feed down low all game is beyond me.

I was literally screaming at my TV for them to pass him the ball lol.

[Lateralus]

Didn't get to watch the game but it sounds like we benefited from one bad call and the land violation was legit. Hopefully its a case of a one seed taking a win against a 16 seed for granted.

[machu46]

Didn't get to watch the game but it sounds like we benefited from one bad call and the land violation was legit. Hopefully its a case of a one seed taking a win against a 16 seed for granted.

We played like absolute shit man. Just sat their hoisting up 3's when Christmas had his man sealed on every single possession. Scoop and Joseph didn't show up for the game until the 2nd half, and James Southerland had 15 in the 2nd half.

At the end of the day, there was 3 calls that the fans all got up in arms about and as it turns out, 2, possibly 3 of them were all called correctly. And on top of that, we got absolutely screwed out of 8-10 points but nobody mentions that because we won. Awful, awful game, and I honestly don't have much faith in them to win anymore, but we absolutely deserved the win today and probably should have actually won by more than the score indicates.

[nyjunc]

Absolutely pitiful performance by Syracuse, especially in the first half. Christmas could have had 50 today if our guards weren't so selfish, and Boeheim's stubbornness not to play Carter-Williams, not to press, not to look inside, and not to run an offensive set nearly cost us.

Regarding the refs, the out of bounds play was absolutely a bad call, but the lane violation was a lane violation. Two guys actually committed the violation. And at the end of the day, UNCA was gift-wrapped 6 or 8 points in the first half on a BS goaltend call, blown backcourt call that led to a 4 point play, and then the foul on Triche at the end of the half.

SU got a gift, threy never make that lane violation call, there was a blatant goaltend earlier in the half they didn't call, the OOB play was huge too.

SU won, these are the types of games you need to win in this Tourney- it shouldn't be in a 1 vs. 16 matchup but they found a way to win.

[ScrotumRocket]

SU got a gift, threy never make that lane violation call, there was a blatant goaltend earlier in the half they didn't call, the OOB play was huge too.

SU won, these are the types of games you need to win in this Tourney- it shouldn't be in a 1 vs. 16 matchup but they found a way to win.

The OOB play was greatly exaggerated. Either way, it's Cuse ball. Most people are thinking that the ref didn't want to call the foul and give Cuse a free free throw (they were in the bonus) so they just called it Cuse ball. I think it was somewhat of a gift for Ashville. It's either just give Cuse the ball or call a foul and give Cuse free free throws.

[nyjunc]

The OOB play was greatly exaggerated. Either way, it's Cuse ball. Most people are thinking that the ref didn't want to call the foul and give Cuse a free free throw (they were in the bonus) so they just called it Cuse ball. I think it was somewhat of a gift for Ashville. It's either just give Cuse the ball or call a foul and give Cuse free free throws.

It looked like a foul in real time but on the replay it wasn't, it was a badly blown call.

[machu46]

It looked like a foul in real time but on the replay it wasn't, it was a badly blown call.

Yeah, but the refs don't look at the replays when they make these calls.

At the end of the day, UNCA got a break from the refs a ton yesterday.

Missed backcourt violation (+4 for UNCA)
Missed goaltend (+2 for UNCA)
Completely forgetting that Triche was fouled at the end of the first half (+1, possibly 3 for UNCA)

The bad calls that went against UNCA:
Lane violation (it was a blatant lane violation, you flat out can't get mad at someone for making the call when you're so obvious about breaking the rule)
Missed goaltend (+2 for SU, although I wish I could see the replay again because people are saying that Southerland got his hand on the ball as the guy was going up with it, which would mean that you could swat the ball whenever you wanted, and therefore it wouldn't have been a goaltend)
Out of bounds call (+2 for SU, absolute max of +5 if UNCA uses the extra possesion to get a 3 pointer)

At the end of the day, based on these awful calls, UNCA was screwed out of 1 point at the most, or they got a 4 point advantage. Syracuse flat out won this game despite not being prepared at all.

[machu46]

On a sidenote, I'm hearing that Syracuse is going to be disqualified from the NCAA Tournament next year due to the APR if Dion and Fab leave for the draft.

If I understand APR right, and it's about how many of your players you graduate, doesn't this basically mean that John Calipari will have to retire from coaching or not recruit solely one-and-dones anymore?

[Lateralus]

Whatever, there are bad calls in every game. Sometimes you benefit from them, sometimes you don't. A UNC fan is really one of the last people to be talking about gifts from the officials.

I don't get why anyone is upset with the lane violation, it's clear as day and an easy call. Nothing illegitimate about it. As for the OOB play, that is clearly off Triche, but it also could have been called a foul which would have put SU at the line. I think it's a good call in lieu of calling the foul.

Hopefully this is the wake up call (because if it's not there's nothing in this world that can be) that this team has needed for a while. I'm truly hoping it was more a case of a 1 seed looking past a 16 seed and not the true sentiment of this team because they lost Fab. I understand what a blow it must be to these guys who are together all the time and rely on each other, but we still have so much talent on this team it's sick. Some people take Southerland being our lead scorer as a bad thing, and I understand why but to me it's huge. If we're still going to try and make a legitimate run here we need him (and Fair, Christmas and Keita for that matter) to step up and he did that yesterday. Our seniors need to get their heads out of their asses and take control of this team.

Oh well, I took off work today to watch the tourney so I'm glad Cuse didnt become the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 because that would have ruined the tourney for me. Let's go Lehigh, Bonnies, Aztecs and Catamounts!

[Lateralus]

On a sidenote, I'm hearing that Syracuse is going to be disqualified from the NCAA Tournament next year due to the APR if Dion and Fab leave for the draft.

If I understand APR right, and it's about how many of your players you graduate, doesn't this basically mean that John Calipari will have to retire from coaching or not recruit solely one-and-dones anymore?

If players leave to pursue NBA careers I really don't think it should count against graduation rates. It's these players chances to be set for life, it's not like they're dropping out because they cant cut the grades.

[machu46]

If players leave to pursue NBA careers I really don't think it should count against graduation rates. It's these players chances to be set for life, it's not like they're dropping out because they cant cut the grades.

I think they should at least allow kids to make the jump from high school to the NBA if they're going to penalize you for having a one-and-done.

And regarding the officiating, here's just one example of how Syracuse got screwed yesterday. It goes both ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GInMI...layer_embedded

[Lateralus]

That's funny just realized all the teams I'm rooting for are playing ACC teams. Well I always root for anyone who plays Duke, but I live in SD so I'm rooting for SDSU who happen to be playing NCST, I'm from NY and have many friends who attended and have visited the St. Bonaventure campus many a drunken time and they happen to be playing ACC champs FSU, and with as close as Cuse came yesterday I wanna see the other one seeds struggle a little. Also funny I used to be a semi-UNC fan until I started posting in this forum...

[ScrotumRocket]

On a sidenote, I'm hearing that Syracuse is going to be disqualified from the NCAA Tournament next year due to the APR if Dion and Fab leave for the draft.

If I understand APR right, and it's about how many of your players you graduate, doesn't this basically mean that John Calipari will have to retire from coaching or not recruit solely one-and-dones anymore?

Boeheim addressed this in the post game and said their above 930, which is the cutoff rate.

[ScrotumRocket]

It looked like a foul in real time but on the replay it wasn't, it was a badly blown call.

What force sent Triche out of bounds? A swift wind?

[machu46]

What force sent Triche out of bounds? A swift wind?

Well he had already dropped the ball before he got hit, and some people are saying it was "incidental contact" so it shouldn't have been a foul anyway, but I guess if you're going to argue that they never call lane violations, so they should let the one yesterday go, you could argue they always call the incidental contact like that, so they should have called it.

[JEvans14]

People are complaining about the lane violation? What the hell is the argument there? You step on or over the line its a penalty, done, end of story.

[machu46]

People are complaining about the lane violation? What the hell is the argument there? You step on or over the line its a penalty, done, end of story.

Yeah, but "refs never make that call". At the end of the game, you're allowed to just stand in front of the free throw line and it isn't a violation because it's the end of the game.

It's like the distractor in BASEketball. You can do whatever you want.

[BanditsRock11]

Lane violations are never called, that's true. I'm not debating it wasn't one, it clearly was, but to say that it's called a lot wouldn't be true either.

The out of bounds call was one of the worst I've ever seen. It was also a foul. Horrible job by the officials but that's expected in sports now a days.

[machu46]

Lane violations are never called, that's true. I'm not debating it wasn't one, it clearly was, but to say that it's called a lot wouldn't be true either.

The out of bounds call was one of the worst I've ever seen. It was also a foul. Horrible job by the officials but that's expected in sports now a days.

That out of bounds call happens so many times though where the ref doesn't want to call the foul so they just give the ball to the team that would have been shooting free throws.

And it's one thing if a guy just steps over the line barely for the lane violation, but to come flying in like 5 seconds early like UNCA did, you just have to call that or it gets out of control. But it's just ridiculous that everyone is screaming conspiracy. If these people actually watched the entire games instead of tuning in for the last couple minutes, they would know that UNCA got the benefit of the whistle for the first 37 minutes of the game. And now you have ESPN Analysts saying that this proves once and for all that there's conspiracies in sports and stuff. It's literally insane. The officiating in this game was nowhere near as bad as some of the other games Syracuse has played in this year.

[machu46]

This is what I'm talking about. Mizzou and Duke goes down so we can forget about Syracuse for a little bit.

[Epicness]

LOL DOOK

Syracuse is next to KState

[CoachC.]

With the APR, you get 2 "points" per kid per semester they complete (in good academic standing, of course). You don't get those 2 points if they do not.

Let's say you you have one kid decide to leave early for the NBA and since he already played his last game he doesn't want to stick around for the rest of the semester. He'd rather prep for all the pre-draft camps, etc, which is perfectly understandable. That means he does not complete that semester and that means you lose those 2 points.

Multiply that by 2 or even 3 players and suddenly your APR goes from 940 to 936 or even 934. You are now ineligible for the NCAA tournament. That's absolutely horrible.

Of course, those players could stay the whole semester, and sometimes they do. That would allow you to maintain the 940 (if you're at that number). So, in UK's case, Cal can still recruit 1 and dones, and if they stay and finish the entire spring semester they don't penalize his program.

The NCAA doesn't care about this because they are basically saying "you shouldn't be recruiting kids just for basketball. They should all be here to get an education for 4 years."

Compounding the issue is the NBA drafting rules. Great HS players have to go to college now for at least a year and a program is bound to get punished for him leaving after that year. If they had the old rules, they could go right to the NBA and no program would even have him to begin with.

Also....transfers count against you for the exact same reason. Even if a kid transfers simply because he doesn't like the coach or isn't playing enough or is homesick. If he doesn't complete the semester in good standing, the program loses those 2 points.

[CoachC.]

Well, so much for the "they never call that lane violation" stuff from the Cuse game. They called it against ND with 2 secs left and it cost them big time.

I have no issue with it. It's the rule and the right call. Officials should not be in the business of picking and choosing WHEN to enforce rules. But the intentional foul after that on ND? Bull shit. There should never, ever be intentional fouls called because every foul at the end of a game when a team is down is "intentional." There should only be flagrant fouls.