Yankees in talks with Twins for Johan Santana

[buffjills]

Last I saw, he'll be ready for spring training. They already have the Red Sux involved and that should be enough to put the price through the roof.

[Orange Nation]

Are the Sox the frontrunners?

The Red Sox may be the frontrunners for Minnesota ace Johan Santana, according to Charlie Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer Press: "The Twins would receive four players for the Twins' two-time Cy Young Award winner, including center fielder Coco Crisp, 28. Others would be shortstop prospect Jed Lowry, 23; left-handed pitcher Jon Lester, 23; and right-handed pitcher Justin Masterson, 22. Before a deal could be made, the Red Sox would have to have time to negotiate a contract extension with Santana, 28, who can become a free agent after next season and could have a market value as high as $150 million over six years." ...

[BF_in_Indiana]

The Red Sox deal is ridiculous. Coco Crisp? Who wants that slug?

Someone said in the shoutbox that the Mets were talking about Reyes for Johan? Now that would be a quality trade.

[Orange Nation]

Coco Crisp? Who wants that slug?

Coco has excellent range. He was Top 5 defensively by many defensive metrics, while Melky was bottom 10. The benefit of much better range pays more dividends than the benefit of a much better arm over a season. And let's be honest here, Melky will make the min for exactly one more year. After that he's in his arb years so the money side of it diminishes significantly. Also, the Twins do have a good looking CF prospect, Pridie, who's about 2 years away. Coco fills the gap at a modest price and provides them the tools that fit the organizational philosophy better than Cabrera. The Twins value defense pretty high, and Coco rates well. Melky doesn't.

[Merk]

Everything I've read said the Twins want nothing to do w/ Coco so I have a hard time believing that report

[Merk]

Coco has excellent range. He was Top 5 defensively by many defensive metrics, while Melky was bottom 10. The benefit of much better range pays more dividends than the benefit of a much better arm over a season. And let's be honest here, Melky will make the min for exactly one more year. After that he's in his arb years so the money side of it diminishes significantly. Also, the Twins do have a good looking CF prospect, Pridie, who's about 2 years away. Coco fills the gap at a modest price and provides them the tools that fit the organizational philosophy better than Cabrera. The Twins value defense pretty high, and Coco rates well. Melky doesn't.

Tell that to runners on the bases when there deciding on whether or not to go to 2nd to third or third to home


Crisp has a Damon like Arm and will get run on all day. Melky has a cannon that runners wont go on

[Orange Nation]

Everything I've read said the Twins want nothing to do w/ Coco so I have a hard time believing that report

Actually, they are very high on Coco, and with the CF they got in the TB trade, he would provide a stop gap. As I said, the Twins value Defense and Coco gives you that.

[Orange Nation]

Yank's Can't Let Sox Get Santana

No matter how many home runs Alex Rodriguez hits, no matter how many hitters Chamberlain freezes, no matter how many great years Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada have left in them and no matter how much further Robby Cano, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy develop, the Yankees will never overcome a team on which Josh Beckett is the No. 2 starter.

Indications are the Yankees are thinking along the same lines. An organizational source told me yesterday they would now consider parting not just with Kennedy or Hughes, but Kennedy and Hughes plus Cabrera, if that's what it takes. In that case, the Yankees would pursue Rowand to replace him in center.

"With Hank in charge, the feeling is we've got to win now," the source said. "We've got to show our fans we're not waiting around, that we're committed to winning right away."

Kennedy AND Hughes AND Cabrera...lol

[Merk]

Actually, they are very high on Coco, and with the CF they got in the TB trade, he would provide a stop gap. As I said, the Twins value Defense and Coco gives you that.

How on earth does he provide a stop gap? He can't hit and he makes almost 5 mil in 08 6 mil in 09 and 8 mil in 2010.


The Twins are not looking to pay that type of $$$ for Coco Crisp to be a stop gap w/ there salary limitations. You can find fielders w/ great range for far less $$$


This comes down to who's going to blink first and give up the 2nd A level major league ready prospect. If the Red Sox subsitute Ellsbury for Crisp he'll be in Boston tomorrow. If the Yankees make it 2 of the three Pitchers or add Cano he'll be in NY by tomorrow

[BF_in_Indiana]

"We've got to show our fans we want to win now." Isn't a 200 million dollar payroll an indication that you want to win EVERY YEAR?

[phishhead220]

Coco's defense has been gold glove caliber over the last two seasons, which perfectly replaces Hunter. His bat definitely doesn't, but maybe he'd do better in Minnesota with less pressure. He had a few good stretches of hitting last season, but his consistency was pretty poor.

I don't really like him anymore with the Sox, but apparently a lot of teams including Washington and Minnesota really want him.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Sports Illustrated's Jon Heyman had a solid baseball hotstove segment on Mike and the Mad Dog earlier, and he said it comes down to Jacoby Ellsbury and Phil Hughes. Whichever side blinks first and offers that player in its package will land Santana. If the Red Sox call the Twins and include Ellsbury in their package, Santana is theirs. If the Yankees tell Minnesota that Hughes is coming, then Santana will be New York bound.

As good as Santana is, I'd hate to give up Hughes. But the Yanks might not have a choice; they simply cannot allow Boston to have the two best pitchers in baseball. In the end, I think it'll be the Yankees who land Johan.

[Orange Nation]

They HAVE to part with either Joba or Hughes. Anything other than that is a tremendous disappointment.

Thing is I think the Sox have the better offer if the Yanks insist on not including those two.

[Orange Nation]

Sports Illustrated's Jon Heyman had a solid baseball hotstove segment on Mike and the Mad Dog earlier, and he said it comes down to Jacoby Ellsbury and Phil Hughes. Whichever side blinks first and offers that player in its package will land Santana. If the Red Sox call the Twins and include Ellsbury in their package, Santana is theirs. If the Yankees tell Minnesota that Hughes is coming, then Santana will be New York bound.

As good as Santana is, I'd hate to give up Hughes. But the Yanks might not have a choice; they simply cannot allow Boston to have the two best pitchers in baseball. In the end, I think it'll be the Yankees who land Johan.

I read his piece on SI.Com. McCutchen, Whelan, and Gardner haven't been mentioned at all. Curious as to why Heyman brings them up here.

I'd agree with his thought process if the Yanks were offering Hughes. They're not.

If I were Brian Cashman, I would have a hard time dealing away Phillip Hughes, Kennedy, Melky and a prospect, simply because you have to expect Joba and Hughes to be mainstays in your rotation for as long as you would have Santana for anyways, and much much cheaper. Trading away cheap pitching talent to sign a pitcher to what will almost certainly be the biggest contract a pitcher has ever inked isn't exactly a Cashman kind of move.

They don't have the position prospects to make it worth it for them and for the Twins...

I still think the dark horse in this one is the two LA teams. If one of them loses out on Cabrera and decides they want Santana, they might open and close talks in one night, and come out of it with a new ace.

[SabreNasty2630]

The Red Sox and Twins are discussing the framework of a Johan Santana deal that would have Boston sending four players to Minnesota in return for the two-time Cy Young Award winner, including center fielder Coco Crisp, pitcher Jon Lester and minor-league shortstop Jed Lowrie, the trio that would to anchor the deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3133598

[Orange Nation]

Can we just merge the 2 threads and make a Johan Santana thread..lol

This proposal is the same as the other one but it is Bowden instead of Masterson.

[BigPapi]

Last updated: 11/29, 2:07 p.m.
Are the Sox the frontrunners?

The latest rumor involving the Red Sox and Santana is the juiciest yet. According to a report from Charlie Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer Press (who sources “a little birdie”) on Thursday, the Sox are now the frontrunners to land Santana as part of a trade package that does not include either Jacoby Ellsbury or Clay Buchholz. According to Walters, the Red Sox would receive Santana in exchange for Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, and minor league prospects Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson, both of who rank among Boston’s top young talent. More from Walters: “Before a deal could be made, the Red Sox would have to have time to negotiate a contract extension with Santana, 28, who can become a free agent after next season and could have a market value as high as $150 million over six years." ESPN's Buster Olney wrote on Thursday that the Sox and Twins are working on the framework of a deal that would send Santana to Boston for Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, with Sox minor league pitcher Michael Bowden being the fourth pitcher in the deal. But Olney wrote that "the identity of the fourth player is in flux" in his blog update. The Boston Herald’s Tony Massarotti reported Thursday that, according to an unnamed major league source, the Twins are looking for a package of players in exchange for Santana that includes “a pitcher, a positional player and one or two prospects.” Wednesday’s top rumor regarding Santana and the Sox was that the Twins were demanding Ellsbury as part of any trade package. The Herald's Michael Silverman wrote that "Although no one in the system has been deemed as an 'untouchable', the Red Sox are loathe to part with rookie center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury." The New York Times' Jack Curry reported Wednesday that the Twins have asked for Ellsbury, but that Boston is balking at that. SI.com reported late Tuesday that the Twins have asked the Red Sox for Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester, plus Ellsbury. The Yankees have confirmed the start of trade talks for Santana, Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Monday. The Twins are asking the Yankees for a package of at least three young players that would include one of Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy -- plus center fielder Melky Cabrera, according to SI.com However, on Wednesday the Newark Star Ledger reported that the Yankees have made Chamberlain and second baseman Robinson Cano off limits. ... The Twins have reportedly offered Santana a four-year, $80 million extension, according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. The newspaper also reports that Santana asked for more, and that the two sides could be as much as two years and $40 million apart.

[Merk]

See part of the problem here is nobody really knows what the Yankees have offered yet


I've heard that Hughes was never offered and that the deal was Kennedy, Tabata, and Melky


If they want Hughes instead of Kennedy than the Yanks have to make that deal if they want Hughes added to the deal then I'm afraid we will have to bow out and make a run at D.Haren from Oakland

[Merk]

Merged

[Orange Nation]

FWIW, there is a new episode of Yankees Hot Stove on tonight at 6:30 EST. Guests include Jack Curry and Bob Klapisch. Maybe some new info will come out.

[Orange Nation]

Does anyone else think that there is no way the Yankees allow him to go to Boston. I believe the Yanks would trade all 4 of their guys (Hughes, Kennedy, Cabrera, top prospect) to the Twins to keep him from going to the Red Sox.

I remain steadfast in the opinion that Hank Steinbrenner will blink once again. The thing that Little Stein fears more than not getting Santana is that he will come to the Red Sox. I believe that when the moment of truth arrives....and Minnesota says "Hank, here's what it will take, or Johan goes to Boston" that Little Stein will fold faster than a cheap tent, just like he did with ARod. I think the Yankees will end up giving up far more than these media reports have conjectured.

[Orange Nation]

From MLB site hot stove a few minutes ago:



"The perceived early pole-sitters, the Yankees, also are adjusting their offer to reflect Wednesday night's transaction. Center fielder Melky Cabrera and a young pitcher still remain in the package, but now the Bombers may consider including both Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy to satisfy the Twins' growing need for arms. "

If it's a bidding war, it's working...

I now think Theo is playing chess with the Yankees. IMO, he will make the trade as outlined forcing the Yankees to respond by including Hughes. He wants the Yanks to get into a no win situation of either gutting their farm system or allowing the Sox to get Santana at an acceptable price. The Yankees were trying to get Santana on the cheap in terms of talent, but that will not happen now. The Yanks are more desperate for an ace, and are genetically inclined to over-pay anyway, so the Theo magic here might be to create an illusion of serious interest to ensure that if the Yanks do get him, it really, really costs them. Because sitting out the process and letting the Yanks pay less than they should for Santana would hurt us. Maybe Theo has learned something from all those Boras negotiations. . .

[Orange Nation]

Here's the latest from the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo:

No contract talks have started on Santana
Link By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff November 29, 07 05:39 PM
As of early this evening Johan Santana's agent had not yet begun negotiating with any team in regard to a contract extension for his prized left-handed starter, according to a major league source familiar with the situation.

If he had that would be a sign that a team had agreed to a deal to acquire the coveted lefty and would then try to seal the deal by signing Santana to a long-term extension. This is what makes this deal so hard to put together.

The Red Sox appear to be smack in the middle of the action, according to one major league source. There's a lot of silence coming from Yawkey Way, always an indication there's something big in the works. According to what we've been told by a couple of major league sources is that the Sox would be willing to part with Tony Conigliaro Award winner Jon Lester over Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden over Justin Masterson. The Twins would take Coco Crisp to be their new center-fielder instead of the untouchable Jacoby Ellsbury, but doing that means the Sox would have to kick in another significant prospect. While sources did not confirm who that prosoect was, ESPN reported that it might be shortstop Jed Lowrie.

At this stage the Twins are still trying to sort out who is willing to offer what. The Yankees are still very much in the hunt with their talks centering around Melky Cabrera and Robinson Cano. The Angels appear to have the wherewithal to make a deal quicker than anyone else because of the available young players and an abundance of pitching after they acquired Jon Garland from the White Sox in exchange for former Red Sox shortstop Orlando Cabrera.

[Callaway]

Coco's defense has been gold glove caliber over the last two seasons, which perfectly replaces Hunter. His bat definitely doesn't, but maybe he'd do better in Minnesota with less pressure. He had a few good stretches of hitting last season, but his consistency was pretty poor.

I don't really like him anymore with the Sox, but apparently a lot of teams including Washington and Minnesota really want him.

haha yea right. Coco has an arm the base runners in a white-collar softball league would run on

[phishhead220]

haha yea right. Coco has an arm the base runners in a white-collar softball league would run on

Torrii Hunter had 5 outfield assists last year, Coco had seven...so i don't see anything wrong with my statement that Coco replaces Hunter's defensive abilities.