2007/2008 New York Yankee Offseason Thread

[bigdog72ny]

oh god please no lowell

[Orange Nation]

oh god please no lowell

Is there a better option?

He's a WS MVP, but I do wonder how he will fare outside the friendly confides of Fenway Park. As I posted in the Red Sox Offseason Thread, he had pretty dramatic home/road splits: .373/.418/.575 at home versus .276/.339/.428 on the road. He's not terrible, but he certainly looks better from playing half his games at Fenway Park, and most of his games in the same lineup as Manny, Ortiz, Pedroia, Youkilis, and other good offensive players. Granted, he'd have both of those variables helping him again if he was with the Sox in '08, but so would another comprable bat....

The Yankees can not start negotaiting money with him until Nov. 12, only the Red Sox can.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

oh god please no lowell

How could you not want Lowell?

A. He's a two-time World Series champion.

B. He's a World Series MVP.

C. You're not going to find many guys in MLB who are better in the clubhouse.

D. He's a tremendous fielder.

E. He's been a consistently solid hitter his entire career.

F. You'd weaken the Red Sox by taking him.

Again, how could you not want Lowell? This would be the Yankees' best move at third base since they acquired Scott Brosius a decade ago.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Here's my ideal Yankee lineup for next season ...

C - Jorge Posada
1B - Andy Phillips
2B - Robby Cano
SS - Derek Jeter
3B - Mike Lowell
LF - Johnny Damon
CF - Aaron Rowand
RF - Bobby Abreu
DH - Hideki Matsui

Bench: Jason Giambi, Shelley Duncan, Jose Molina, Wilson Betemit, Bronson Sardinha (pinch runner).

The main thing that's worrisome about that lineup is the lack of home-run pop. You might not have a guy hit 30 homers in the bunch, but I miss the small-ball Yankees of the late '90s who used contact hitting, smarts and pitching to get by. I think Joe Girardi could really use this lineup effectively.

Starting pitching:

1. Johan Santana (Trade: Chien-Ming Wang, Melky Cabrera and prospects to Minnesota.)

2. Andy Pettitte

3. Phil Hughes

4. Ian Kennedy

5. Joba Chamberlain

Bullpen:

LHPs - J.C. Romero, Kei Igawa.

RHPs - Mariano Rivera, Mike Mussina (long relief/spot starter), Mike Timlin, Ross Ohlendorf, Edwar Ramirez, Luis Vizcaino.

There's 27 players; the Yankees can decide the other 13.

[Merk]

I wouldnt mind ML


Hes not worth 70 over 5 but the Yankees dont really have a lot of options if they dont want to deal A level prospects

[Orange Nation]

Highly unlikely Mike Timlin pitches anywhere but Boston.

[MeccaOfManhood]

Here's my ideal Yankee lineup for next season ...

C - Jorge Posada
1B - Andy Phillips
2B - Robby Cano
SS - Derek Jeter
3B - Mike Lowell
LF - Johnny Damon
CF - Aaron Rowand
RF - Bobby Abreu
DH - Hideki Matsui

Bench: Jason Giambi, Shelley Duncan, Jose Molina, Wilson Betemit, Bronson Sardinha (pinch runner).

The main thing that's worrisome about that lineup is the lack of home-run pop. You might not have a guy hit 30 homers in the bunch, but I miss the small-ball Yankees of the late '90s who used contact hitting, smarts and pitching to get by. I think Joe Girardi could really use this lineup effectively.

Starting pitching:

1. Johan Santana (Trade: Chien-Ming Wang, Melky Cabrera and prospects to Minnesota.)

2. Andy Pettitte

3. Phil Hughes

4. Ian Kennedy

5. Joba Chamberlain

Bullpen:

LHPs - J.C. Romero, Kei Igawa.

RHPs - Mariano Rivera, Mike Mussina (long relief/spot starter), Mike Timlin, Ross Ohlendorf, Edwar Ramirez, Luis Vizcaino.

There's 27 players; the Yankees can decide the other 13.

Keep JC Romero as far away from this team as possible. I wouldn't hate Timlin, but it won't happen. Also, I like Lowell, but he's just a stop gap, he's not the solution. Actually stop gap isn't the right term. Lowell is a great 3rd baseman (offensively and defensively), but how many great seasons are left in him?

[Merk]

Yankee Notes

-Johnny Damon for Joe Crede straight up is a rumor floating around. I like Crede but I think JD can still be one of the best table setters in the game

-Yankees would be interested in T.Hunter if they move Damon If we move Melky to LF and DH Matsui it would give us a pretty strong defensive OF. This would be a plus b/c teams w/ good speed kill us b/c they can run on us all day

-Mo has bassically said he want to retire a Yankee

[Orange Nation]

Pettitte declines option with Yankees

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7413470

It still doesnt mean all that much. Pettitte reiterated that he wanted to either be a yankee or retire, and he declined the option so he could have more time. So long as the yankees offer arbitration, which they will, they will still have a crack at him. I dont see Pettitte making up his mind for certain until December.

I understand the Yankees want to give him time but while they wait they lose out on options for the 2008 rotation. If Andy Pettite takes too long and declines to return, the Yankees may be limited on there choices.

[Merk]

Pettitte declines option with Yankees

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7413470

It still doesnt mean all that much. Pettitte reiterated that he wanted to either be a yankee or retire, and he declined the option so he could have more time. So long as the yankees offer arbitration, which they will, they will still have a crack at him. I dont see Pettitte making up his mind for certain until December.

I understand the Yankees want to give him time but while they wait they lose out on options for the 2008 rotation. If Andy Pettite takes too long and declines to return, the Yankees may be limited on there choices.

I really dont see how


Nobody on the FA market is better than what we have, we have even more starting pitching in the minors, and the only other options like a Santana or a Willis via trade are deals that would be made with or w/out Andy on board

[Orange Nation]

Part of Pettitte's message would make me uneasy, now that I have read it again. Saying that he wanted to free up a spot on their roster. Almost sounds like he wants the yankees to plan as if he isnt coming back and maybe he'll reconsider. If I am reading into this correctly, I think we can tell where he is leaning.

But, I'd assume that this means Bartolo is in your sights. Colon is the ultimate low risk high reward kind of arm. This is assuming no other team is stupid enough to offer a long term deal. Then again, the Rockies are still in the majors arent they (that phrase loses its luster when they make it to a WS).

Also, totally unsubstantiated rumor, but why not. On one of the yankee boards, someone reported that Posada has turned the yankees down and will sign with the mets once he is able to do so for a 4 yr 65 mil deal. I know the chances of this being true are not very good, but holy shit.

[Orange Nation]

I really dont see how


Nobody on the FA market is better than what we have, we have even more starting pitching in the minors, and the only other options like a Santana or a Willis via trade are deals that would be made with or w/out Andy on board

There are some really poor options out there. Colon may be the only guy worth throwing a line to, based solely on the fact that his fastball is still burning after surgery.

On the pitching thing: If I were you I wouldnt mind releasing Mussina and trying someone else in the rotation too. Hell, Wang then 4 rookies. You might suck, but you would serve yourselves better in the future.

Issues w/ Current Rotation:

1) Wang's home-road split makes him much less useful away from the Bronx.
2) Mussina looked pretty shaky late in 2007.
3) Hughes should be great, but he had injury issues in 2007...just as he's had before. How will that effect him?
4) Joba Chamberlain isn't proven at all as an MLB starter....and had shoulder and weight issues in the past...
5) Kennedy barely has MLB velocity. Check the PITCHf/x data from his starts: he was being given several more inches on the outside corner than the opposing teams' starters were getting. Given fair umpiring, he'll be eaten alive.

With so many question marks, Pettitte was/is important. The top side for this remaining rotation is filthy good, butthe questions are serious and legitimate.

[Merk]

There are some really poor options out there. Colon may be the only guy worth throwing a line to, based solely on the fact that his fastball is still burning after surgery.

On the pitching thing: If I were you I wouldnt mind releasing Mussina and trying someone else in the rotation too. Hell, Wang then 4 rookies. You might suck, but you would serve yourselves better in the future.

Issues w/ Current Rotation:

1) Wang's home-road split makes him much less useful away from the Bronx.
2) Mussina looked pretty shaky late in 2007.
3) Hughes should be great, but he had injury issues in 2007...just as he's had before. How will that effect him?
4) Joba Chamberlain isn't proven at all as an MLB starter....and had shoulder and weight issues in the past...
5) Kennedy barely has MLB velocity. Check the PITCHf/x data from his starts: he was being given several more inches on the outside corner than the opposing teams' starters were getting. Given fair umpiring, he'll be eaten alive.

With so many question marks, Pettitte was/is important. The top side for this remaining rotation is filthy good, butthe questions are serious and legitimate.

Pitching is so year to year that every staff has question marks

Wang- Even w/ his home to away split he is still a possible 20 game winner every year
Moose- Sucks and I dont care if he goes b/c Ohlendorf and Horne will both be ready for the rotation in 08
Hughes- injury issues last year were related more to a freak acccident and bad training program in the beginning of the season
Joba-is the one I'm least worrried about his weight has been in check since he got drafted
Ian- Fair Umpiring? lol Multiple scouting reports say he had the best control of anyone in the minors hes going to get the corner calls because thats what he does. I didnt like him at first b/c I saw his velocity read outs and didnt see him pitch. He is very Maddox like and had a sub 2 ERA all year in the minors. He will be getting those calls for a long time

In the minors Sanchez will be back from injury, Horne should be ready in June, Marquez should be ready in Aug, all three have ace ceilings and Ohlendorf should be ready at the beginning of the season

[Callaway]

There are some really poor options out there. Colon may be the only guy worth throwing a line to, based solely on the fact that his fastball is still burning after surgery.

On the pitching thing: If I were you I wouldnt mind releasing Mussina and trying someone else in the rotation too. Hell, Wang then 4 rookies. You might suck, but you would serve yourselves better in the future.

Issues w/ Current Rotation:

1) Wang's home-road split makes him much less useful away from the Bronx.
2) Mussina looked pretty shaky late in 2007.
3) Hughes should be great, but he had injury issues in 2007...just as he's had before. How will that effect him?
4) Joba Chamberlain isn't proven at all as an MLB starter....and had shoulder and weight issues in the past...
5) Kennedy barely has MLB velocity. Check the PITCHf/x data from his starts: he was being given several more inches on the outside corner than the opposing teams' starters were getting. Given fair umpiring, he'll be eaten alive.

With so many question marks, Pettitte was/is important. The top side for this remaining rotation is filthy good, butthe questions are serious and legitimate.

He'll be eaten alive huh? I heard that same crap line from every other Pac 10 team fan during his days as a Trojan and guess what those days never came. Ian gets calls b/c he can put the ball wherever he wants over the plate and when you can do that you dont need to throw 95 mph. He didnt have a 1.8 ERA in the minors by mistake. The guys is a future Ace and I would love for the Angels to take him off the Yankees hands

[Callaway]

Pitching is so year to year that every staff has question marks

Wang- Even w/ his home to away split he is still a possible 20 game winner every year
Moose- Sucks and I dont care if he goes b/c Ohlendorf and Horne will both be ready for the rotation in 08
Hughes- injury issues last year were related more to a freak acccident and bad training program in the beginning of the season
Joba-is the one I'm least worrried about his weight has been in check since he got drafted
Ian- Fair Umpiring? lol Multiple scouting reports say he had the best control of anyone in the minors hes going to get the corner calls because thats what he does. I didnt like him at first b/c I saw his velocity read outs and didnt see him pitch. He is very Maddox like and had a sub 2 ERA all year in the minors. He will be getting those calls for a long time

In the minors Sanchez will be back from injury, Horne should be ready in June, Marquez should be ready in Aug, all three have ace ceilings and Ohlendorf should be ready at the beginning of the season

Told Ya, and you were skeptical about him

[Orange Nation]

He'll be eaten alive huh? I heard that same crap line from every other Pac 10 team fan during his days as a Trojan and guess what those days never came. Ian gets calls b/c he can put the ball wherever he wants over the plate and when you can do that you dont need to throw 95 mph. He didnt have a 1.8 ERA in the minors by mistake. The guys is a future Ace and I would love for the Angels to take him off the Yankees hands

future ace? no way. a viable 3 or 4 option? sure.

[Callaway]

future ace? no way. a viable 3 or 4 option? sure.

You should have just wrote "I have never seen him pitch so I'm going to now talk out my ass"

Hes been the staff ace wherever he has gone and will continue to be one wherever he ends up. I love this myth that you have to throw 95 mph to be a staff ace these days. When was the last time G.Maddox threw 95 mph or even 92? 10-12 years ago? Nobody believes me how good this kid is untill they see him pitch and they realize the talent he has.

[Orange Nation]

this isnt high school or college, go look at a little thing called 'statistics' and the PITCHf/x data from his starts: he was being given several more inches on the outside corner than the opposing teams' starters were getting, so go look at his PITCHf/x records for his games

Tell you what--go check his first start. If you review that and you want to claim that there's no bias, let me know.

Kennedy has been profiled as a No. 4/No. 5 starter at best, not ace material

[Merk]

lolol looks like ON made the mistake of picking on a Trojan

[Callaway]

this isnt high school or college, go look at a little thing called 'statistics' and the PITCHf/x data from his starts: he was being given several more inches on the outside corner than the opposing teams' starters were getting, so go look at his PITCHf/x records for his games

Tell you what--go check his first start. If you review that and you want to claim that there's no bias, let me know.

Kennedy has been profiled as a No. 4/No. 5 starter at best, not ace material

So you want me to go look at PITCHf/x so it can show me that in his short time in the majors and at his age he is already getting calls from Umpires and has shown that he can expand the strike zone like a vet pitcher w/ cred? And you think this backs up your argument???

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Thats called great pitching not unfair umpiring

Seriously get a clue and actually go watch him pitch instead of regurgitating what some clueless scouting report said

[Carl J. Ironsides]

As a Yankees fan and someone who saw every one of Kennedy's pitches this past season, I have to agree with Callaway. The kid is extremely impressive; his velocity is in the low 90s, and he is incredible at hitting the corners and mixing up his speeds. As you said, Callaway, Kennedy is Madduxesque. He may not be a flame-thrower, but the ability to outsmart hitters and be cerebral on the mound is what will make him a front-end starter for a lot of years. Kennedy isn't exactly slow, either; this isn't Paul Byrd we're talking about. His fastball is respectable to say the least, not to mention that nothing fazes him on the mound. He brushes mistakes right off.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Just an update ...

Buster Olney indicated on Sportscenter that Brian Cashman has met with the Marlins regarding Miguel Cabrera. Florida, not surprisingly, wants either Hughes, Joba or Kennedy, but the Yankees aren't going to do that.

In the end, my guess is that the two sides hash it out and the Yanks end up with Miggy as their new third baseman. Cabrera has a little Man-Ram in him, but he's also one of baseball's best pure hitters and already has a World Series ring, which is one more than A-Rod.

My proposal ...

To Florida:

Chien-Ming Wang
Melky Cabrera
Prospects

To NYY:

Miguel Cabrera
Dontrelle Willis

[voicekiller]

Just an update ...

Buster Olney indicated on Sportscenter that Brian Cashman has met with the Marlins regarding Miguel Cabrera. Florida, not surprisingly, wants either Hughes, Joba or Kennedy, but the Yankees aren't going to do that.

In the end, my guess is that the two sides hash it out and the Yanks end up with Miggy as their new third baseman. Cabrera has a little Man-Ram in him, but he's also one of baseball's best pure hitters and already has a World Series ring, which is one more than A-Rod.

My proposal ...

To Florida:

Chien-Ming Wang
Melky Cabrera
Prospects

To NYY:

Miguel Cabrera
Dontrelle Willis

I would go with that trade...but i bet we would have to give up Ian, also we should really consider during Spring Training seeing if Tabata has the stuff to be in the outfield full time...Tabata is young and raw but with Girardi he could improve rather quickly behind Damon, Matsui, and Abreu

[Merk]

this isnt high school or college, go look at a little thing called 'statistics' and the PITCHf/x data from his starts: he was being given several more inches on the outside corner than the opposing teams' starters were getting, so go look at his PITCHf/x records for his games

Tell you what--go check his first start. If you review that and you want to claim that there's no bias, let me know.

Kennedy has been profiled as a No. 4/No. 5 starter at best, not ace material

I dont know where you got that or who told you that but I would start ignoring them b/c it couldnt be more wrong


I'm sorry but you dont become the ace pitcher for the USC Trojans, get drafted in the first round, have a 1.90 ERA in your first full year in the minors avg'ing more than a K per inning, win pitcher of the year by the MILB, then move up to the Bigs and post a 1.89 ERA while showing that you belong and only have a ceiling as a 4 or 5 starter at best.


He may or may not have an ACE ceiling depending on what your def of that is but to say hes a back of the rotation starter after all hes done to this point in his career?? C'mon

[Merk]

Just an update ...

Buster Olney indicated on Sportscenter that Brian Cashman has met with the Marlins regarding Miguel Cabrera. Florida, not surprisingly, wants either Hughes, Joba or Kennedy, but the Yankees aren't going to do that.

In the end, my guess is that the two sides hash it out and the Yanks end up with Miggy as their new third baseman. Cabrera has a little Man-Ram in him, but he's also one of baseball's best pure hitters and already has a World Series ring, which is one more than A-Rod.

My proposal ...

To Florida:

Chien-Ming Wang
Melky Cabrera
Prospects

To NYY:

Miguel Cabrera
Dontrelle Willis

There not going to want Wang b/c he is arbitration eligiable I believe this year and if not this year def next year. There trying to avoid paying big $$$


Looking at this from a Marlins GM standpoint I would tell Cash to not even pick up the phone unless he is willing to part w/ one of the 3 (Joba, Hughes, Ian). I would have to get at least one of them back in any trade made for MC

or

W/out one of those three I would be looking for a deal like this

Sanchez
Ohlendorf
Horne
Tabata
Ducan
JB Cox

for

MC
DW

Thats bassically gutting our system


Mike and the Mad Dog feel it will go down like this

Yankees send
Ian
Melky
Tabata

Marlins Send
Cabrera


There always pretty shitty in there trade predictions though b/c there working from the old school thought that your minor leaguers are not worth anything untill they do something in the majors


Plus I think people keep looking at him as a 3rd basemen but IMO his future is in LF or at 1st