Did FOX cross the line?

[CoachC.]

Do you think FOX network crossed the line by zooming in on and focusing on and talking about the discoloration on Kenny Rogers' left hand?

A few years ago there was a situation that a team was picking up the catcher's signals from the CF camera. A lot of baseball "ethics" and "unwritten rules" were talked about it because of that.

Is this the same thing? FOX knows the clubhouse is watching. Do they have a responsibility to stay away from that stuff, or a duty to report it?

[CoachC.]

And remembr just a few weeks ago, Brent Musburger was talking about USC's "secret" signal for a hot read from QB to WR. He was told about it in his weekly prep meeting with the QB.

The USC A.D. went nuts and called for his firing.

That's ridiculous, but it did raise some good questions.

Since I'm involved in the media, I'm curious to know what you all think?!

[JLB]

You are really on it.
Why did they report that?
I've been peaking at it but didn't notice that.

[BF_in_Indiana]

So they are supposed to let that go? Come on. That looked like pinetar to me which is ILLEGAL! I thought they did a great job of pointing it out. I don't think we should allow people to cheat........that's even more unethical.

[Scary Good]

I don't think you can let that go...seems a bit fishy to me.

[BF_in_Indiana]

It was very fishy. He's claiming it was a "clump of dirt". Dirt doesn't look like a sticky cream substance. It was pretty obvious what it was. And then when they showed he had washed it. off you could still see the remnants of it because it was sticky. That stuff doesn't come off easily.

[GG8407]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2635538

After the substance was noticed, ESPN reviewed tapes of Rogers' pitching performances earlier in the postseason. The tapes revealed that, in starts against both the Yankees and Athletics, a similar-looking brown substance was spotted on Rogers' hand.

[ckg68]

Baseball,if I remember,has a long reputation of cheating-stealing signs,stuff like that.

And it brings to mind the old axiom,"If you're not cheating,you're not trying-and it's only cheating if you get caught."

[Carl J. Ironsides]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2635538

What a joke this is. I knew there was no way Kenny freaking Rogers could dominate for three consecutive starts. More cheating befalls baseball. This time it happens right before our eyes.

Go Cardinals. F Rogers and the Tigers at this point.

[BF_in_Indiana]

I'm way more upset about this today than I was yesterday. Knowing we may have been cheated in a World Series game.

I knew Kenny Rogers sucked. Now we know why he pitched like Cy Young all postseason.

[BanditsRock11]

What a joke this is. I knew there was no way Kenny freaking Rogers could dominate for three consecutive starts. More cheating befalls baseball. This time it happens right before our eyes.

Go Cardinals. F Rogers and the Tigers at this point.


Well put. Couldnt agree more.

Hes a scumbag cheater.

[ckg68]

Was he caught by the umpires?

NO.

And one question: Why didn't Tony LaRussa put up a stink about this DURING the game-at least asking to examine the glove? It better not be because of his off-field friendship with Jim Leyland.

I guarantee two things: 1. LaRussa wouldn't be so quiet if the Cards were down 1-0 instead of leading the WS 1-0. 2. Leyland wouldn't hesitate to raise a stink if,say,Chris Carpenter was seen to have the same thing on his hands-friendship with LaRussa or no.

And all the upbrading I see here might leave the impression that cheating is a newfangled thing in MLB,when it isn't.

[JWatts]

Look at this picture and tell me it's dirt. Dirt my a$$, that's the remains of pinetar and what's MLB going to do about it, not a thing. Then you wonder why MLB is the laughing stock of all professional sports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?slug=getty-72218924cc085_world_series__12_41_19_pm&prov=getty

[BF_in_Indiana]

Was he caught by the umpires?

NO.

And one question: Why didn't Tony LaRussa put up a stink about this DURING the game-at least asking to examine the glove? It better not be because of his off-field friendship with Jim Leyland.

I guarantee two things: 1. LaRussa wouldn't be so quiet if the Cards were down 1-0 instead of leading the WS 1-0. 2. Leyland wouldn't hesitate to raise a stink if,say,Chris Carpenter was seen to have the same thing on his hands-friendship with LaRussa or no.

And all the upbrading I see here might leave the impression that cheating is a newfangled thing in MLB,when it isn't.

Well by the time the umps really went to check on it (after the Cardinals made them aware of it) it was gone. What are you gonna do about that? There isn't anything you can do. They can't look at the "replay" monitor.

He got away with it. Tony knows there is nothing he can do. It's just how it is.

[Bsmith26]

And it brings to mind the old axiom,"If you're not cheating,you're not trying-and it's only cheating if you get caught."


That's just a saying for the losers who cheat so they can sleep at night.

[ckg68]

Well by the time the umps really went to check on it (after the Cardinals made them aware of it) it was gone. What are you gonna do about that? There isn't anything you can do. They can't look at the "replay" monitor.

He got away with it. Tony knows there is nothing he can do. It's just how it is.

Then LaRussa should have made the umps aware of it earlier,friendship with Leyland be damned. If it was the other way around,Leyland would likely do it.

Had Billy Martin been manager of the Tigers and he saw Rogers with that thing on his hand,his ass would have been on the bench the next inning. Martin was an ass,but a damned good manager.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

It's either dog crap or pinetar. My vote goes to the latter. It sure as hell isn't dirt.

[Merk]

I have no problem w/ it



I hope there is a game 6 b/c w/ the spotlight now on him he wont be able to get away w/ it again if that is what he has been doing


I mean come on, K.Rogers goes from being one of the worst post season pitchers in MLB history to S.Kofax at age 41. Something is up

[BF_in_Indiana]

I can't wait for Game 3. I want Carpenter to shut them down hard. I am very angry at what has transpired. Sickening though it is. Knowing we may lose a World Series because of that game and that cheater.

[D-Rocafella]

I'm way more upset about this today than I was yesterday. Knowing we may have been cheated in a World Series game.

I knew Kenny Rogers sucked. Now we know why he pitched like Cy Young all postseason.

Whatever was on his hand was gone after the 1st inning so how do you account for the next 7 scoreless innings he pitched?

[BLeonard]

To answer the original question, they have the duty to report it. If they say nothing, they look like morons. It was obvious.

Unfortunately, there are many ways in sports that cheating in one instance or another is going to occur. It all depends on what you consider "cheating." Do I consider stealing signs while on the field, in the dugout, etc, as a player or coach cheating? No, I don't. Just as if a defensive player in football can time the snap count to get a jump on the ball isn't cheating. It's called smarts. Using things to your advantage. Now, using a third party, such as a centerfield camera, that's a little different, because it's not a person involved in the game doing the stealing.

A perfect example of this is George Brett's pine tar home run. The rules specifically state how far up a bat pine tar can be, and Brett's bat exceeded that. If you're following the letter of the law, he should have been ruled out for using an illegal bat, just as someone would be ruled out had they used a corked bat. Regardless of the pine tar not "violating the spirit of the rules," as Lee MacPhail eventually ruled, it was still breaking a rule. In fact, following this incident, the rule was re-written.

Bottom line: If LaRussa was really worried about it, he should have called for an official inspection.

On the Musburger incident, I'd have to say that he didn't do anything wrong. He's a journalist and, if he has information, he has the right to report it. Why they would have been so stupid to give signs to a person with the power to broadcast them to the world is beyond me. You don't want something known, don't tell a reporter.

-Bill

[Snarf]

Fox and everyone else is making a big deal out of nothing. EVERY PITCHER puts pine tar on their arm before they pitch. I have a buddy that works for the Bisons and he said they all use it. I am sure Rodgers used it all season, but he did not have camera focusing on his every move when pitching againts the Royals like he does in the World Series. Fox was just trying to stir up some headlines and they did in a way. Heck the Cards pitch probably was using it too.

[Gibby]

Do you think FOX network crossed the line by zooming in on and focusing on and talking about the discoloration on Kenny Rogers' left hand?

A few years ago there was a situation that a team was picking up the catcher's signals from the CF camera. A lot of baseball "ethics" and "unwritten rules" were talked about it because of that.

Is this the same thing? FOX knows the clubhouse is watching. Do they have a responsibility to stay away from that stuff, or a duty to report it?

stuff like announcing and showing what hand signals mean what should be beyond the pale of access for sportscasters but possible improprieties such as tarry or oiled hands and bats are fair game. We need an honest game but not the game to be spoiled by giving away teams' trade secrets to their opponents for study.

[Gibby]

And remembr just a few weeks ago, Brent Musburger was talking about USC's "secret" signal for a hot read from QB to WR. He was told about it in his weekly prep meeting with the QB.

The USC A.D. went nuts and called for his firing.

That's ridiculous, but it did raise some good questions.

Since I'm involved in the media, I'm curious to know what you all think?!

coverage of USC was wrong and should be punished, but the cards thing was fair.