Biron v.s. Ottawa

[Thumper]

What a shrewd coaching move by Ruff. We've got our #1 in Miller, he plays the first two games and looks solid. There was a lot of talk about Biron needing to be traded in the offseason. He requested a trade before the deadline. He wants to be a main contributor to any team in the league. He wants to feel like a contributor. So what does Ruff do? He says "Here you go, Marty. Here's the #1 seed in the East of last season. We need you here. You're just as much a part of this team as anyone."

It's that Ruff mentality. If you're on this roster, you are as valuable as anyone, and you will be used. You're a rookie? You're going to kill penalties against some of the top offensive players in the league. You've got 20 games of NHL experience? We're down by 1 goal and we need you to score somehow during the last minute of play with our goaltender on the bench. That's what he did with Pominville and Roy and Novotny last season. You're our #2 goaltender? You're going to play against the toughest opponent in our division.

That was a great move by Ruff. Its nice to have the best coach in the league in Buffalo, isn't it?

[JLB]

Great thread and yes it is.

[Chrispy56]

I agree with you. Go Sabres!

[SabresMB3]

It is a nice thread and you make a good point. Ruff has done a great job throwing in any player in any situation. I think it keeps everybodys competitive edge at all times and it keeps the morale of the players up to know that they are going to contribute in all aspects of the game

[pigpen65]

I think you are reading waay too much into it. It was the 3rd game in the first 4 nights of the season. It was the second of a back-to-back. The backup goalie, whoever it was, was going to start that game. I could have told you that the second the schedule came out in April.

[sukie]

Keeps the netminders sharp and competition is high that way.

[Thumper]

I think you are reading waay too much into it. It was the 3rd game in the first 4 nights of the season. It was the second of a back-to-back. The backup goalie, whoever it was, was going to start that game. I could have told you that the second the schedule came out in April.

You could have told me that in April? Then why didn't you? And how are you so sure that the fact that it was 3 games in 4 nights had anything to do with it? It was 3 games in 4 months with a week off immediately after. I highly doubt fatigue played any kind of issue.

[buffalofan19]

I think you are reading waay too much into it. It was the 3rd game in the first 4 nights of the season. It was the second of a back-to-back. The backup goalie, whoever it was, was going to start that game. I could have told you that the second the schedule came out in April.

I think you can read into this a little more than you think. I have a feeling Martin Biron will see more playing time than the average backup this year. The guy is good enough to start on almost any team in the league and deserves the playing time, and it looks like Lindy Ruff is going to give it to him. 3 games in 4 nights probably had something to do with it (it's called picking your spots), but remember, Ryan Miller started the first 8 or 9 games of the season last year. Biron never got a start until about Halloween, so it wouldn't be the first time Ruff has rode Miller for a while. It's more than just the standard play the backup the 3rd game in 4 nights.

[pigpen65]

You could have told me that in April? Then why didn't you? And how are you so sure that the fact that it was 3 games in 4 nights had anything to do with it? It was 3 games in 4 months with a week off immediately after. I highly doubt fatigue played any kind of issue.

you didn't ask. I wouldn't think anybody would care. Certainly we all knew Miller wasn't going to play 82 games this year. The second of back to back games is going to be the showcase for the backup goalie all year long.

And the 4 months only adds into it. It's not 4 months of rest; it's 4 months removed from game shape that would allow fatigue to factor in sooner.

[Thumper]

you didn't ask. I wouldn't think anybody would care. Certainly we all knew Miller wasn't going to play 82 games this year. The second of back to back games is going to be the showcase for the backup goalie all year long.

And the 4 months only adds into it. It's not 4 months of rest; it's 4 months removed from game shape that would allow fatigue to factor in sooner.

Well of course Miller wasn't going to play all 82 games this year. That's not the point at all. The point is this: Its rare and interesting that a #2 goaltender has already started a game after only 3 games this season.

If this is such a no brainer for you, can you explain why Cam Ward played back-to-back games on October 6th and 7th?

How about Luongo starting back-to-back games for the Canucks on October 5th and 6th? And just so you know, Luongo started the 3rd game in 4 nights on October 8th against Colorado.

Putting Biron in as quickly as Ruff did was not an obvious move. It was for the purpose of setting that team concept early, and in all positions. Another example is the fact that Andrew Peters played for over 6 minutes the other night. That's only the 2nd time in his career he has had that many shifts.

Right now, Ruff is going to use everyone to win hockey games. The Biron decision was a smarter move than you think.

[pigpen65]

If this is such a no brainer for you, can you explain why Cam Ward played back-to-back games on October 6th and 7th?

How about Luongo starting back-to-back games for the Canucks on October 5th and 6th? And just so you know, Luongo started the 3rd game in 4 nights on October 8th against Colorado.

well, Luongo took off all of 7 games last year. That's something that not every starting goalie is capable of, as evidenced by him leading the league in games played last year. With Ward, i would venture to guess the 0 wins had something to do with him starting the 3rd game, coupled with the fact that Laviolette is a bit of a ball buster. Of course, i don't really know any of the real reasons why a coach would decide to play a starter 3 games in 4 nights, on the back end of 2 in a row. Only that it usually doesn't happen.

[Thumper]

Just admit you have no point.

Where was Biron last night?

[number61]

Just admit you have no point.

Where was Biron last night?

wasn't he on the bench

[pigpen65]

Just admit you have no point.

Where was Biron last night?

Backing up. he's the backup. Another shrewd move by Ruff perhaps?

[Thumper]

wasn't he on the bench

Exactly my point.

[Thumper]

Backing up. he's the backup. Another shrewd move by Ruff perhaps?

Perhaps you forgot that you said this a few days ago?


The second of back to back games is going to be the showcase for the backup goalie all year long.

If your initial point had any validity, Miller wouldn't have played versus the Rangers last night. It was the second of back to back games.

If Biron had played, it would have shot my initial point out of the water and validated your's. But as I suspected, that wasn't the case.

[sukie]

Biron needs to play a third of the games for our success.

[JLB]

Biron needs to play a third of the games for our success.

He had a hell of a win streak last year.
How many games did he play in?

[Thumper]

He won 13 straight and played in 35 over the season.

[pigpen65]

If your initial point had any validity, Miller wouldn't have played versus the Rangers last night. It was the second of back to back games.

i never said the backup will play every single back to back game. Of course it depends on how the starting goalie feels. BUt usually, the backup goalie gets a game when the starting goalie is tired. Such as the 3rd game in 4 nights this thread is about, or the second of back to back games.

If Biron had played, it would have shot my initial point out of the water and validated your's. But as I suspected, that wasn't the case.

Boston game?

[pigpen65]

Just admit you have no point.

when you admit you have absolutely no idea if Lindy Ruff has ulterior motives starting a backup goalie, i'll admit that i really don't care all that much about the subject.

[Thumper]

How convenient for you to dig up this thread after Biron started the second of back-to-back games.

Where were you when Miller started the 1st and 2nd of back-to-back games, AFTER Ruff put Biron in against Ottawa, completely validating my point?

And if you really don't care about the subject, why the hell do you keep trying to argue your point?

i never said the backup will play every single back to back game.

No...You just said "The second of back to back games is going to be the showcase for the backup goalie all year long."

What exactly were you trying to say there?

[pigpen65]

How convenient for you to dig up this thread after Biron started the second of back-to-back games.

Where were you when Miller started the 1st and 2nd of back-to-back games, AFTER Ruff put Biron in against Ottawa, completely validating my point?

And if you really don't care about the subject, why the hell do you keep trying to argue your point?

i'm not trying to argue any point. when there is a defined starting goalie
(as is the case for Buffalo) the backup goalie gets most of their work to spell the starter, usually in the second of back to back games. That's not a personal opinion i'm arguing, it's an observation from many years of watching the sport. You started the thread. Ruff started Biron against Ottawa for a reason other than to give Miller a rest on the 3rd game in 4 nights? You just didn't give any real evidence to support that.


No...You just said "The second of back to back games is going to be the showcase for the backup goalie all year long."

What exactly were you trying to say there?

That the second of back to back games is going to be the showcase for the backup goalie all year.

How many back to back games have there been?
How many games has Biron played this year?
How many of Biron's starts have been something other than the second of back to back games?

answer those questions and prove me wrong.

[sfoote]

I think you are reading waay too much into it. It was the 3rd game in the first 4 nights of the season. It was the second of a back-to-back. The backup goalie, whoever it was, was going to start that game. I could have told you that the second the schedule came out in April.

How could the schedule for this season come out when last season wasn't over with yet?

[pigpen65]

How could the schedule for this season come out when last season wasn't over with yet?

fixed it for you.

The backup goalie, whoever it was, was going to start that game. I could have told you that the second the schedule came out

[Iggy72]

Just to throw in my 2 cents (again in Cdn. currency, although we are catching up), I'm glad we've kept Marty and that he's projected to be playing a 3rd of the games. You should have heard the hand-wringing around here when the Canucks rested Luongo and put in Sabourin against Edmonton, where he promptly let in the first goal on the first shot.

I'm pleasantly surprised that Ruff doens't seem to be using Miller the way he used Hasek. Chalk it up to learning by experience (from the '98 run).

Pax.
Iggy72

[Sabre Die-Hard]

I think it is a great situation to be in. To have two guys that can be considered a number one goalie. It is a win win situaion for us. The more Marty plays, and the better he does btwn the pipes, the higher the price will be if we move to trade him before the deadline. And on the other hand we are paying him 2 mil, we may as well get our money's worth while he's still here. And keep him happy by playing him so that a negative attitude towards the team isnt't allowed to affect his preformance when he is played or looked at for trade. I would love to maintain 2 number one goalies as an insurance policy, but in today's NHL I just don't think it's possible.

[Thumper]

when there is a defined starting goalie
(as is the case for Buffalo) the backup goalie gets most of their work to spell the starter, usually in the second of back to back games. That's not a personal opinion i'm arguing, it's an observation from many years of watching the sport. You started the thread. Ruff started Biron against Ottawa for a reason other than to give Miller a rest on the 3rd game in 4 nights? You just didn't give any real evidence to support that.

I'm not disputing that the backup goalie usually will play the second of back-to-back games. What I'm disputing is that when it's only the 3rd game of the regular season, its out of the ordinary, and there is another reason for the coaching decision.

No one (except for you of course....) thought that Biron would play in the 3rd game of the season.

[Thumper]

If your point is 100% accurate, why didn't Biron play against the Rangers? It was the second of back-to-back games. I don't need to answer your 3 questions to prove you wrong. When Miller was the starting goalie against the Rangers, you were already proven wrong. You tried to shrug off that point earlier in the thread, when in reality, it puts a hole in your entire argument.

[Sabres244]

If your point is 100% accurate, why didn't Biron play against the Rangers? It was the second of back-to-back games. I don't need to answer your 3 questions to prove you wrong. When Miller was the starting goalie against the Rangers, you were already proven wrong. You tried to shrug off that point earlier in the thread, when in reality, it puts a hole in your entire argument.

we may have played night before, but we had 6 nights off before that

[Thumper]

we may have played night before, but we had 6 nights off before that

Miller and the Sabres had 4 months off before the Sabres played 3 regular season games in 4 nights in the 1st week of the season. There's no way fatigue played a factor.

[Sabres244]

Miller and the Sabres had 4 months off before the Sabres played 3 regular season games in 4 nights in the 1st week of the season.

so we just forget training camp and preseason? what's the big deal, Martys gonna play

[Thumper]

so we just forget training camp and preseason? what's the big deal, Martys gonna play

Miller didn't play every game in preseason. Usually goalies want a lot of rubber and minutes early in the season so that they can hit their stride as early as possible. Its not a bit odd to you that Miller was on the bench in game #3?

I know Marty is going to play. I want him to play. Its not a matter of it being a big deal or not. If you want to know what my point is, and what pigpen and I are debating, just read why I started the thread.

[Sabres244]

With our goalie tandem no it didn't seem odd to me that Miller was on the bench game #3, I almost expected it actually.

If you recall last season in late March Miller looked really tired and we went on that skit that cost us alot.

[deconstruction]

I agree, Lindy's approach is usually the best in the league.

[Thumper]

With our goalie tandem no it didn't seem odd to me that Miller was on the bench game #3, I almost expected it actually.

If you recall last season in late March Miller looked really tired and we went on that skit that cost us alot.

Okay, fair enough. I was suprised to see Biron getting a game so early in the season. So I was wondering what lead Ruff to deciding on giving Biron the start in Ottawa. I felt and still feel that it goes deeper than the second of back-to-back games. I think that may have helped the decision, but there's no way that's the only reason it happend.

[unklechucky]

It has worked out so far that Biron starts every 4th game. Coincidence or not, I think thats how it should roll.

[Thumper]

It has worked out so far that Biron starts every 4th game. Coincidence or not, I think thats how it should roll.

But Biron started the 3rd game of the season, not the 4th.

[Thumper]

[EDIT double post]

[unklechucky]

But Biron started the 3rd game of the season, not the 4th.

I couldve sworn it was the 4th, but oh well. As long as that ratio is kept, I think it works.