Chicago Tribune: Pro-Israel lobby has warped U.S. policy ?

[г]

Posted on Mon, Aug. 28, 2006
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Two scholars say pro-Israel lobby has warped U.S. policy

By Frank James

Chicago Tribune

(MCT)

WASHINGTON - Two scholars who created a controversy earlier this year when they wrote that the pro-Israel lobby exerted too much influence over U.S. foreign policy said Monday that the recent Israel-Hezbollah war in Lebanon was yet another example of what they view as a dangerous tendency.

John Mearsheimer, a University of Chicago political science professor, and Stephen Walt, a professor of international relations at Harvard University's Kennedy School, said the U.S. government's unstinting support for Israel's recent war in Lebanon once again placed the agenda of what they call the Israel lobby ahead of U.S. strategic interests.

The result, they said, was that the U.S. position in the Middle East, already strained due to the Iraq War, had worsened with consequences that wouldn't just be bad for America, but Israel as well.

"One, Iran and Syria are more likely to continue arming and supporting Hezbollah," Mearsheimer said.

"Two, Iran and Syria have even more reason to keep the U.S. pinned down in Iraq so it's not attacked by U.S. troops," he said. "Three, Iran has more reason than ever to acquire nuclear weapons so it can deter an Israeli or U.S. attack on its homeland."

Mearsheimer and Walt, who appeared at an event hosted by the Council on American Islamic Relations, singled out the American-Israel Public Affairs Council as the leading example of the how the lobby has warped U.S. policy. It was the same point they made in their essay called "The Israel Lobby" that was published in March in the London Review of Books.

They blamed the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a leading pro-Israel lobby, for a failed attempt to slightly amend language in a pro-Israel House resolution to call on the warring parties to protect innocent civilians and infrastructure. Rep. Nancy Pelosi, the House Democratic leader, and Sen. John Warner, R-Va., were among a group of lawmakers who supported such a change, Mearsheimer said.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/15383641.htm

[nehemiah]

jerusalem must be entirely free of muslims before the rapture can begin.

kill 'em all, baby. let's get this party started.

[г]

Starting at Forward for your Toronto Raptures...

http://www.nba.com/media/raptors/bosh_GER_dnk_334.jpg

CHRIS BOSH!

[nehemiah]

:rofl:

[г]

Here's a link to the full CSPAN coverage of the event that the article was excerpted from...

rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/intl/intl082806_lobby.rm

[SpikedLemonade]

According to Upstart and Jibby, there is NO Jewish Lobby in the US.

The US simply protects/arms/funds/etc. Israel because they like them.

Ask bubba on a Sunday afternoon while he is watching NASCAR whether he likes Jews.

[uppy]

[QUOTE=SpikedLemonade;1358701]According to Upstart and Jibby, there is NO Jewish Lobby in the US.

Bullshit Spike...I never said that and I don't recall Jib saying that


The US simply protects/arms/funds/etc. Israel because they like them.

Thay are our allie ..just like Cananda

Ask bubba on a Sunday afternoon while he is watching NASCAR whether he likes Jews.

Ask a bubba in canada or the US...there could be a differnce in opinion
based on what I have seen in this fourm

[ckg68]

Starting at Forward for your Toronto Raptures...

http://www.nba.com/media/raptors/bosh_GER_dnk_334.jpg

CHRIS BOSH!

That's CB4 to you,and don't you ever remember to never forget it!

Right now,dude's the whole show for the Raps.

[г]

It should be a good year with Italian Management.

Raptors bocceball

[anEinherjer]

Wait, there's a Jewish lobby? For Jews??

[г]

In Quebec, it's called the 'RC' or 'rez-de-chaussée'

[SpikedLemonade]

[QUOTE]

(1) Bullshit Spike...I never said that and I don't recall Jib saying that




(2) Thay are our allie ..just like Cananda



(3) Ask a bubba in canada or the US...there could be a differnce in opinion
based on what I have seen in this fourm

(1) You certainly don't believe the Jewish American Lobby are THE sole reason for the US's stupid illogical support of Israel. You believe Israel is simply a friend to the US.

(2) Canada is the US's biggest trading partner and shares the longest border in the world with the US. What again does the US get from Israel again?

(3) NO NO my friend. I guarantee you that most Americans don't give a flying shit about Israel. They just support your stupid President as he shits all over the world.

[uppy]

Wait, there's a Jewish lobby? For Jews??

It Offends our brothers to the north...lol

[SpikedLemonade]

It should be a good year with Italian Management.

Raptors bocceball

Actually, I have been thinking of names for the new Italian flavoured Raptors.

The Toronto Cosa Nostras OR the Toronto Eggplants.

[г]

LOL, they'll all get 'made' names

Chris 'the Stork' Bosh, etc., etc.

[uppy]

[QUOTE=upstart;1358724]

[QUOTE](1) You certainly don't believe the Jewish American Lobby are THE sole reason for the US's stupid illogical support of Israel. You believe Israel is simply a friend to the US.

No Spike...you where full of shit with your statememt,don't try to wiggle
out.

(2) Canada is the US's biggest trading partner and shares the longest border in the world with the US. What again does the US get from Israel again?

An Allie in the middle east

(3) NO NO my friend. I guarantee you that most Americans don't give a flying shit about Israel. They just support your stupid President as he shits all over the world.

You guarantee nothing...your hate blinds you

[SpikedLemonade]

TJ "Put 'em in the Trunk of the" Ford

AND NO more Pizza Pizza slices if they score a certain number of points.

It's now Mama's Pizza only.

Screw Molson and Labbatt -- its now Moretti only.

AND NO more skinny usherettes -- you need a set of Cs if you want to work at the Air Italia Centre.

[SpikedLemonade]

[QUOTE=SpikedLemonade;1358750][QUOTE=upstart;1358724]



(1) No Spike...you where full of shit with your statememt,don't try to wiggle
out.



(2) An Allie in the middle east



(3) You guarantee nothing...your hate blinds you


(1) NO wiggling you Pats fan who posts all day on a Bills site. You will NOT acknowledge why the US supports Israel.

(2) An allie in the Middle East without oil. Crap, you really need to look hard for that kind of allie.

(3) Hate? Try again. Then again, I still don't see you leaving for the IDF yet.

[г]

http://www.unc.edu/~asmyth/images/espresso1.jpg

The brewery's gonna be replaced with a giant espresso machine

[uppy]

[QUOTE=upstart;1358757][QUOTE=SpikedLemonade;1358750]


(1) NO wiggling you Pats fan who posts all day on a Bills site. You will NOT acknowledge why the US supports Israel.

(2) An allie in the Middle East without oil. Crap, you really need to look hard for that kind of allie.

(3) Hate? Try again. Then again, I still don't see you leaving for the IDF yet.

This is for you..

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/1909/cheneyaipac20067lt.jpg

[SpikedLemonade]

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/1909/cheneyaipac20067lt.jpg

Dick's evil horns were replaced with the Star of David?

Interesting....

[rob on the job]

... Ask bubba on a Sunday afternoon while he is watching NASCAR whether he likes Jews.

Oh, stereotyping from you, sensei?

Heaven forfend.

[г]

So, do you like Jews, Rob ?

[SpikedLemonade]

Oh, stereotyping from you, sensei?

Heaven forfend.


Come one Rob.

The average American doesn't care about Israel other than that his/her President has supported Israel -- Support the Commander.

If the US ever went to defend Israel with ground troops, there is NO way they would lay down the lives of their sons and daughters for purily Jewish interests.

Does NO one get it?

THERE IS NO OIL IN ISRAEL!!!

...
Unlike Iraq which is basically sand floating on a sea of oil.
...

[rob on the job]

... The average American doesn't care about Israel other than that his/her President has supported Israel -- Support the Commander. ...

No offense intended, Spiked, because you were my sensei from Day One that I came here, but ...

what the hell would you know about "the average American"?

That would be like me telling you what "the average Canadian" thinks about international affairs.

[SpikedLemonade]

No offense intended, Spiked, because you were my sensei from Day One that I came here, but ...

what the hell would you know about "the average American"?

That would be like me telling you what "the average Canadian" thinks about international affairs.

NOT true Grasshopper.

See in Canada we have American culture shoved up our asses each and every day from the day we are born. In fact, we have the CRTC to protect us from becoming simply the 51st State in terms of culture.

95% of our TV channels were American -- probably down to 65% now.

We have CNN on all the time to keep our eye on you war mongering bastards.

Now we even have FoxNews which we watch purily for entertainment purposes otherwise if we actually believed what was said on that channel we would be scared shitless. Bill O'Reilly has made me piss my pants a dozen times already to the point that I can't watch him if I have had more than 3 drinks.

Then there is the impact of the American film industry as well.

Rob, how much time in the past month have you watched CBC -- Canadian Broadcasting Corporation -- News?

Now do you understand the difference?

[rob on the job]

NOT true Grasshopper.

See in Canada we have American culture shoved up our asses each and every day from the day we are born. In fact, we have the CRTC to protect us from becoming simply the 51st State in terms of culture.

95% of our TV channels were American -- probably down to 65% now.

We have CNN on all the time to keep our eye on you war mongering bastards.

Now we even have FoxNews which we watch purily for entertainment purposes otherwise if we actually believed what was said on that channel we would be scared shitless. Bill O'Reilly has made me piss my pants a dozen times already to the point that I can't watch him if I have had more than 3 drinks.

Then there is the impact of the American film industry as well.

Rob, how much time in the past month have you watched CBC -- Canadian Broadcasting Corporation -- News?

Now do you understand the difference?

Only if I was dumb enough to believe that the media reflected reality ... that the views of the average American were shown on broadcasts or published in papers.

As for having American news shoved up your asses -- I'm sorry, but isn't that where your Canuck heads are? How else are you going to see what's on the screen?

[SpikedLemonade]

Only if I was dumb enough to believe that the media reflected reality ... that the views of the average American were shown on broadcasts or published in papers.

As for having American news shoved up your asses -- I'm sorry, but isn't that where your Canuck heads are? How else are you going to see what's on the screen?

Now that wasn't nice.

Are you saying that all those Americans appearing nightly on Larry King are NOT true Americans reflective of all Americans?

How about the ones on Jerry Springer?

If NOT, where are you hiding all these American MENSA members -- in a cave with Bin Laden?

[rob on the job]

Now that wasn't nice.

Are you saying that all those Americans appearing nightly on Larry King are NOT true Americans reflective of all Americans?

How about the ones on Jerry Springer?

1) I'm sorry -- I wasn't saying you, Spiked Lemonade, preeminent Canadian barrister, was a dupe. I mean those other people who believed what they saw on the tube.

2) Larry King attracts only rich ******* celebrities.

3) Jerry Springer's scripted show hires only bad actors.

The real Americans remain ignored, undocumented, and typecast by the media.

[Lucidvizion]

I forgot to bring my broad brush. Can I still join this thread?

[35Pete]

Only if I was dumb enough to believe that the media reflected reality ... that the views of the average American were shown on broadcasts or published in papers.

As for having American news shoved up your asses -- I'm sorry, but isn't that where your Canuck heads are? How else are you going to see what's on the screen?

Getting a beer for this nugget of truth. Christ, Spiked's Canadian inferiority complex can be so grading at times.

[SpikedLemonade]

The real Americans remain ignored, undocumented, and typecast by the media.

Are they depicted accurately in Rosanne, I Love Raymond or Married With Children?

I mean where are they hidding?

New Orleans?

Washington DC?

Fargo, ND?

[SpikedLemonade]

Getting a beer for this nugget of truth. Christ, Spiked's Canadian inferiority complex can be so grading at times.

If you are only getting a beer, than I feel I have NOT yet done my job here.

[Lucidvizion]

Are they depicted accurately in Rosanne, I Love Raymond or Married With Children?

I mean where are they hidding?

New Orleans?

Washington DC?

Fargo, ND?

How about buffalorange.com?

Have we shattered any of your stereotypes yet?

[rob on the job]

How about buffalorange.com?

Have we shattered any of your stereotypes yet?

One shot, one kill.

Nice one, Lucid.

[SpikedLemonade]

How about buffalorange.com?

Have we shattered any of your stereotypes yet?

Well you are NOT a proper field or sample of data since given you are Buffalo Bills fans, you represent the most intelligent segment of the American society.

If I check the Cowboys or Pats board, I imagine it would be more refective.

[uppy]

How about buffalorange.com?

Have we shattered any of your stereotypes yet?

Nice shot LV

[uppy]

If I check the Cowboys or Pats board, I imagine it would be more refective.

You would love Pats boards PR&S fourms...thay are full of moonbats.

Thats the great thing about this place you have give and take from all
sides and form the evil north (except Ticat)

[г]

Yep, thet boy just ain't raight...

[rob on the job]

TiCat is the ideal Canadian.

[г]

http://www.alphapatriot.com/home/images/pictures/Triumph%20Insult%20Dog.jpg

For me to poop on...

[SpikedLemonade]

TiCat is the ideal Canadian.

Too stupid or limp to screw your sister?

[uppy]

Too stupid or limp to screw your sister?

looks like family smack

[rob on the job]

Too stupid or limp to screw your sister?

And this is why TiCat remains Numero Uno.

[35Pete]

Knock it off with the family crap dammit!

[Green Lantern]

[QUOTE]

Bullshit Spike...I never said that and I don't recall Jib saying that




Thay are our allie ..just like Cananda



Ask a bubba in canada or the US...there could be a differnce in opinion
based on what I have seen in this fourm

why is it when I posted this whole controversy three weeks ago, no one looked at it? (Must be because I don't come up with catchy titles)

But, upstart,

the authors know a truckload more about world politics than you and I ever will and they ask this question: WHY is Israel still our ally now that the Cold War is over? Why do we hurt ourselves to support them? Why do we ruin our reputation with others in the world and spend our political capital on a country that offers us no more strategic benefits?

Go read the questions and/or article please and let me know you answers.

[uppy]

And this is why TiCat remains Numero Uno.

The old AV...nice

[rob on the job]

The old AV...nice

Ditto.

[uppy]

[QUOTE=upstart;1358724]

why is it when I posted this whole controversy three weeks ago, no one looked at it? (Must be because I don't come up with catchy titles)

But, upstart,

the authors know a truckload more about world politics than you and I ever will and they ask this question: WHY is Israel still our ally now that the Cold War is over? Why do we hurt ourselves to support them? Why do we ruin our reputation with others in the world and spend our political capital on a country that offers us no more strategic benefits?

Its easy Israel is our allie and our friend and we don't turn our backs on
friends.

You don't need to know a truckload about world politics to understand
that.

[Green Lantern]

Its easy Israel is our allie and our friend and we don't turn our backs on
friends.

You don't need to know a truckload about world politics to understand
that.

We will sell out a friend if it is our interest. These guys are trying to make the point that we had an alliance with them and it made sense at the time given the bi-polar world. They argue that it is time to re-order our priorities. The logic for having them as an ally is no longer there but we continue to act the same way toward them.

Should we still be enemies with England? They did fight our independence and burn Washington in 1812, right?

[SpikedLemonade]

Knock it off with the family crap dammit!

Family Crap?

Oh, I forgot to capitalize sister as in Sister or Nun.

My apologies.

[SpikedLemonade]

[QUOTE=upstart;1358724]

why is it when I posted this whole controversy three weeks ago, no one looked at it? (Must be because I don't come up with catchy titles)

But, upstart,

the authors know a truckload more about world politics than you and I ever will and they ask this question: WHY is Israel still our ally now that the Cold War is over? Why do we hurt ourselves to support them? Why do we ruin our reputation with others in the world and spend our political capital on a country that offers us no more strategic benefits?

Go read the questions and/or article please and let me know you answers.

I started a similar thread a month ago as well -- http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?t=92680

[SpikedLemonade]

You don't need to know a truckload about world politics to understand
that.

In your case, you don't even know a toilet bowl full.

[ticatfan3]

NOT true Grasshopper.

See in Canada we have American culture shoved up our asses each and every day from the day we are born. In fact, we have the CRTC to protect us from becoming simply the 51st State in terms of culture.

95% of our TV channels were American -- probably down to 65% now.

We have CNN on all the time to keep our eye on you war mongering bastards.

Now we even have FoxNews which we watch purily for entertainment purposes otherwise if we actually believed what was said on that channel we would be scared shitless. Bill O'Reilly has made me piss my pants a dozen times already to the point that I can't watch him if I have had more than 3 drinks.

Then there is the impact of the American film industry as well.

Rob, how much time in the past month have you watched CBC -- Canadian Broadcasting Corporation -- News?

Now do you understand the difference?
LOL What you can't think for yourself that you need the crct to protect you. You have problems my boy.:guy:

[SpikedLemonade]

LOL What you can't think for yourself that you need the crct to protect you. You have problems my boy.:guy:

Oh, I'm all for dismantling the CRTC, but that was their original mandate.

Now with advanced technology they are useful as a tit on a bull.

[uppy]

In your case, you don't even know a toilet bowl full.

you need a reason why we are Irsaels allie ?

I will give you one.. Her neighbors think like you

[uppy]

We will sell out a friend if it is our interest. These guys are trying to make the point that we had an alliance with them and it made sense at the time given the bi-polar world. They argue that it is time to re-order our priorities. The logic for having them as an ally is no longer there but we continue to act the same way toward them.

Should we still be enemies with England? They did fight our independence and burn Washington in 1812, right?

If you can't get something from a friend do you kick them to the curb ?

If the US turned its back on Her ..what would happen ?

The better question is how long would She last before her neighbors wiped
Her out ?

[SpikedLemonade]

If you can't get something from a friend do you kick them to the curb ?

If the US turned its back on Her ..what would happen ?

The better question is how long would She last before her neighbors wiped
Her out ?

There you go again referring to Israel as a female rape victim rather than the creepy pedophile on the block who will NOT leave the little Arab neighbourhood children alone.

AND why again is this pedophile America's friend?

[Green Lantern]

If you can't get something from a friend do you kick them to the curb ?

If the US turned its back on Her ..what would happen ?

The better question is how long would She last before her neighbors wiped
Her out ?

They are not friends, they are allies. Alliances are strategic partnerships. There is no strategy for a partnership any longer. Or, at least the old strategy is gone and I am asking you to articulate a new reason why we should remain allies. That is what the authors in question are doing. They claim that our alliance with Israel gains us nothing and costs us. What can you offer as to why we should continue an alliance with a party who is a drain on us and now a positive danger to us?

Second, what do we care what would happen to her? We did not care about the millions in Cambodia that Pol Pot killed, nor in Ethiopia, nor in Sudan right now, nor Bosnia for years until they became a problem for Europe. We ignore suffering and ethnic cleansing and genocide all the time...why stick our noses in this hornets nest?

Putting Americans in harms way and supporting a government which creates enemies for us and hostile feelings toward us from vast parts of the globe will need, at least for me, a little more reason than, "we are friends with them," and "who else will help them".

If you could tell me that the United States of Arabia will arise if we do not keep our finger in the pie and that new global power will cut off oil to the world and put the planet in an economic tailspin, then maybe I would listen. But you can't say that, that logic is being used for Iraq and Saudia Arabia and Egypt. And that logic is the very reason we no longer need to back Israel. So if it is the Middle East you are worried about, we got that one covered and it makes Israel moot.

So what is your reasoning? Anything? Or should I ask, anything which is a credible point in some politician's decision-making scheme?