The Government's 9/11 Facade is Crumbling

[Soviet_Canuckastani]

August 10, 2006 at 17:36:46

The Government's 9/11 Facade is Crumbling

by John Perry

First things first:

Any time two or more people are knowingly involved in the commission of a crime, there is, by definition, a conspiracy. This is not a theory, folks. It's a stone-cold, undeniable fact. So the real question about 9/11 is not whether there was a conspiracy, but indeed exactly who the conspirators are.

It really is this simple:

1) Either 19 guys with box cutters, led by a guy hiding in a cave in Afghanistan, were able to hijack four major airliners, fly them with expert precision (even though flight instructors say they could barely even fly Cessnas), avoid the most sophisticated air defense system in the history of the world and hit three of four targets in New York and Washington, killing nearly 3000 people and thus pulling off history's most spectacular terrorist attack,
Or:
2) A rouge criminal element within our own government, with the means, motive and standing to benefit tremendously, both financially and politically, either helped to make it happen or fully orchestrated it themselves.

By the way, about that guy hiding in the cave in Afghanistan that supposedly led the hijackers: In June of this year, when questioned about why Osama bin Laden's wanted poster did not mention the 9/11 attacks, an official from the FBI stated that they had "no hard evidence" of his involvement (Google "FBI no hard evidence").

9/11 Truth Movement Gaining Steam

Nineteenth century philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer said the following about truth:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

Similarly, Gandhi said this:
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."

more
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_john_per_060810_the_government_s_9_2f1.htm

[rob on the job]

... A rouge criminal element within our own government, with the means, motive and standing to benefit tremendously, both financially and politically, either helped to make it happen or fully orchestrated it themselves. ...

Omigod!

This genius has discovered the key!!!

A rouge element ... a gang of hedonistic Parisians intent on taking over the world!

Brilliant!!!

http://www.movieconnection.it/schede/moulin_rouge/moulin_mix.jpg

[35Pete]

August 10, 2006 at 17:36:46

The Government's 9/11 Facade is Crumbling

by John Perry

First things first:

Any time two or more people are knowingly involved in the commission of a crime, there is, by definition, a conspiracy. This is not a theory, folks. It's a stone-cold, undeniable fact. So the real question about 9/11 is not whether there was a conspiracy, but indeed exactly who the conspirators are.

It really is this simple:

1) Either 19 guys with box cutters, led by a guy hiding in a cave in Afghanistan, were able to hijack four major airliners, fly them with expert precision (even though flight instructors say they could barely even fly Cessnas), avoid the most sophisticated air defense system in the history of the world and hit three of four targets in New York and Washington, killing nearly 3000 people and thus pulling off history's most spectacular terrorist attack,
Or:
2) A rouge criminal element within our own government, with the means, motive and standing to benefit tremendously, both financially and politically, either helped to make it happen or fully orchestrated it themselves.

By the way, about that guy hiding in the cave in Afghanistan that supposedly led the hijackers: In June of this year, when questioned about why Osama bin Laden's wanted poster did not mention the 9/11 attacks, an official from the FBI stated that they had "no hard evidence" of his involvement (Google "FBI no hard evidence").

9/11 Truth Movement Gaining Steam

Nineteenth century philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer said the following about truth:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

Similarly, Gandhi said this:
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."

more
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_john_per_060810_the_government_s_9_2f1.htm

No one could be so dumb as to post this link as a credible argument for the 911 conspiracy. Since I know that you are not dumb I thank you for the laugh.

Glad someone has a sense of humor around here. :guy:

[njsue]

Could it have been a CIA leak? :D

[Gibby]

CCCPCanuck, I agree that the government has not come clean about 9/11 but all the credible sources I can find suggest that the government is guilty solely of knowing what was going to happen and doing absolutely nothing to stop it. This means all levels of government were in on this failure from the BA on down.

That being said truth and reality should not be determined by the number of people who believe it. Second off this info would be far more powerful if you could use a mainstream source and not a website from a group with an agenda. This is what shiva does all the time and I know that you are a better poster than him. Third, Alex Jones is a nutjob. I did not know the center had wingnuts until I heard him. Fourth could you not get this story from a site where they at least took the time to run spell check and do some proof reading?

[Gibby]

No one could be so dumb as to post this link as a credible argument for the 911 conspiracy. Since I know that you are not dumb I thank you for the laugh.

Glad someone has a sense of humor around here. :guy:

ditto.

[shiva2999]

Of course it's crumbling.

Most of the world thinks Bush pulled off 9/11.

1/3 of Americans and 2/3 of New Yorkers agree.

Smart and decent people see what's going on.

Only the stupid don't.

[rob on the job]

Of course it's crumbling.

Most of the world thinks Bush pulled off 9/11.

1/3 of Americans and 2/3 of New Yorkers agree.

Smart and decent people see what's going on.

Only the stupid don't.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/49/012_421~The-Simpsons-Homer-D-Oh-Posters.jpg

[SpikedLemonade]

Spiked, I agree that the government has not come clean about 9/11 but all the credible sources I can find suggest that the government is guilty solely of knowing what was going to happen and doing absolutely nothing to stop it.

Spiked?

Hey, I'm NOT involved here NOR do I believe it was an American based conspiracy.

It was just American government incompetance.

Nothing more.

[Gibby]

Of course it's crumbling.

Most of the world thinks Bush pulled off 9/11.

1/3 of Americans and 2/3 of New Yorkers agree.

Smart and decent people see what's going on.

Only the stupid don't.

shiva, stop being an idiot. In the medieval ages people believed in spontaneous generation (flies came from rotten meat, snakes came from piles of wood, wingnuts spewed out of mein kampf and das kapital etc...) , the majority of people in victorian times thought Pasteur was wrong. In the Renneisance most people thought Gallileo was wrong. The point I'm getting at is that outside of elections we really shouldn't use polls to determine what is true or false. However, you are right on one thing smart and decent people see what's going on. You do not and never will.

[shiva2999]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html


As I said, only the stupid.

[Gibby]

Spiked?

Hey, I'm NOT involved here NOR do I believe it was an American based conspiracy.

It was just American government incompetance.

Nothing more.

sorry bout that, hadn't put on the coffee yet. I was wrong and its been corrected.

[shiva2999]

shiva, stop being an idiot. In the medieval ages people believed in spontaneous generation (flies came from rotten meat, snakes came from piles of wood, wingnuts spewed out of mein kampf and das kapital etc...) , the majority of people in victorian times thought Pasteur was wrong. In the Renneisance most people thought Gallileo was wrong. The point I'm getting at is that outside of elections we really shouldn't use polls to determine what is true or false. However, you are right on one thing smart and decent people see what's going on. You do not and never will.

Stupid beyond belief.

[TheCrystalBall]

shiva....Phantom never makes any sense EVER.

[Gibby]

Stupid beyond belief.

Indeed you are, I'm glad you finally realized it. That being said is everyone an idiot who does not subscribe to your world view? Is everyone an idiot who uses evidence and critical thinking and not emotionally driven bullshit to prove their point. Now Shiva I am going to be fair, do you have any credible sources and evidence that proves the BA orchestrated this thing from the beginning. I seek truth and not victory for anyone's ideology. Lets see your evidence. You have until 4:00 PM eastern standard time to come up with it. Credible evidence can include Wikipedia, encyclopedias, world almanac, mainstream news sources, academic journals, peer reviewed academic sites written by those with experience in related fields. Credible evidence does not include blog spots (including those with links to credible sources), websites other than wikipedia that do not end in .edu or .gov. These sources cannot include your personal blog, emails unless they are sent by professional with experience in related field, postings on message boards, fictional works, or voices in your head. Well get to it.

[Gibby]

shiva....Phantom never makes any sense EVER.

you're one to talk.

[SpikedLemonade]

shiva....Phantom never makes any sense EVER.

Chimp, it makes more sense to simply throw your shit at him.

[Gibby]

Chimp, it makes more sense to simply throw your shit at him.

:rofl:

[pmoon6]

shiva, stop being an idiot. In the medieval ages people believed in spontaneous generation (flies came from rotten meat, snakes came from piles of wood, wingnuts spewed out of mein kampf and das kapital etc...) , the majority of people in victorian times thought Pasteur was wrong. In the Renneisance most people thought Gallileo was wrong. The point I'm getting at is that outside of elections we really shouldn't use polls to determine what is true or false. However, you are right on one thing smart and decent people see what's going on. You do not and never will.Phantom, I wish you stop calling people idiots when you disagree with them. Shiva put forth the theory and backed it up with tons of research.

Do I think that the Bush administration engineered 9/11? No, but I'm open to the possibility. We cannot and will not ever know for sure, but you have to admit, it is possible.

As far as spell check, you might want to look up "Renaissance".

[shiva2999]

shiva....Phantom never makes any sense EVER.

Phantom doesn't even care to make sense.

But in his world he's justified because he had an unhappy childhood.

[Gibby]

Phantom doesn't even care to make sense.

But in his world he's justified because he had an unhappy childhood.

attacking the poster when you can't argue, okay well there you go again.

[SpikedLemonade]

But in his world he's justified because he had an unhappy childhood.

Nothing that a good chimp shit in the face would NOT fix.

[Gibby]

Phantom, I wish you stop calling people idiots when you disagree with them. Shiva put forth the theory and backed it up with tons of research.

Do I think that the Bush administration engineered 9/11? No, but I'm open to the possibility. We cannot and will not ever know for sure, but you have to admit, it is possible.

As far as spell check, you might want to look up "Renaissance".

Lets get a couple things straight. Number one if I'm guilty of anything its stooping to Shiva's level. Number two he made the comment about spelling and I'm dishing it back to him. Number three I am open to the possibility. Also I remember reading shiva's 9/11 posts and I don't recall any credible sources. However if you want to, dig those threads up and I will take a look.

[TRIPLE P]

Phantom doesn't even care to make sense.

But in his world he's justified because he had an unhappy childhood.

Phantom is just a hypocrite:

shiva, stop being an idiot. .



That being said is everyone an idiot who does not subscribe to your world view?.

[SpikedLemonade]

Lets get a couple things straight. Number one if I'm guilty of anything its stooping to Shiva's level.

Stooping or scooping?

Scooping to Chimp's level is the first step towards shit slinging.

[Gibby]

Stooping or scooping?

Scooping to Chimp's level is the first step towards shit slinging.

I stand corrected.

[Gibby]

Phantom is just a hypocrite:

Hmmm, I could dig up some of your posts and say the same thing.

[pmoon6]

Lets get a couple things straight. Number one if I'm guilty of anything its stooping to Shiva's level. Number two he made the comment about spelling and I'm dishing it back to him. Number three I am open to the possibility. Also I remember reading shiva's 9/11 posts and I don't recall any credible sources. However if you want to, dig those threads up and I will take a look.I believe they are part of cyberheaven, now. When they revamped the site all the archives were lost.

[Gibby]

I believe they are part of cyberheaven, now. When they revamped the site all the archives were lost.

Okay Shiva I turn to you, find me some credible sources and feel free to post. If they are the truth then I'm sure they're still out there.

[rob on the job]

I believe they are part of cyberheaven, now. When they revamped the site all the archives were lost.

http://www.costumesinc.com/Costumes/images/medium/05376back.jpg

[shiva2999]

Also I remember reading shiva's 9/11 posts and I don't recall any credible sources. However if you want to, dig those threads up and I will take a look.

Maybe they were posted during the time you ditched this site and were frequenting another?

[SpikedLemonade]

Maybe they were posted during the time you ditched this site and were frequenting another?

Shiva was having you cyber shadowed.

[rob on the job]

Shiva was having you cyber shadowed.

Shiva is a closet Homeland Security goon.

[Gibby]

Maybe they were posted during the time you ditched this site and were frequenting another?

nope I was shadowing this site, and I have done some digging into your record and can't find a post with a credible source. Maybe you could post some credible items.

[Mouldsie]

guys, chillax on the attacks. reading this thread makes me cringe

[shiva2999]

nope I was shadowing this site, and I have done some digging into your record and can't find a post with a credible source. Maybe you could post some credible items.

Sorry, just because I had thousands of posts representing years of research deleted doesn't mean I'm going to go through the exercise once again because you were too lazy to read them the first time.

See the two links in my sig?

Start there and get back to me.

[Gibby]

I won't say you are wrong Shiva or CCCPCanuck, but can I ask you a fair and reasonable question. Can you tell me what is wrong with the conclusions found in Popular Mechanics and can you give credible sources to back your claims up?

[Gibby]

Indeed I've read your two links. Your first is from a man educated in theology. Use him all you want for religion debates but this is not his field of expertise. As for your cooperative research site it is for all intensive purposes a blog and not a good source for news. Try again please.

[shiva2999]

I won't say you are wrong Shiva or CCCPCanuck, but can I ask you a fair and reasonable question. Can you tell me what is wrong with the conclusions found in Popular Mechanics and can you give credible sources to back your claims up?

Once again, we debunked the ridiculous strawman arguments in PM at least three or four times and I'm not gonna do it again for the slow kids.

But here's one curious fact.

Did you know the lead researcher for this article is Michael Chertoff's cousin?

And that he LIED about it when he was first asked if it was true?

[Gibby]

Once again, we debunked the ridiculous strawman arguments in PM at least three or four times and I'm not gonna do it again for the slow kids.

But here's one curious fact.

Did you know the lead researcher for this article is Michael Chertoff's cousin?

And that he LIED about it when he was first asked if it was true?

Nope your posts are still there. You can take a few minutes and dig them up. As for him being Chertoff's cousin so ****ing what.

[shiva2999]

Indeed I've read your two links.

I don't believe you.

[Gibby]

I don't believe you.

I have, not today mind you but I have within the past week.

[rob on the job]

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77.htm

http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://paulboutin.weblogger.com/2002/03/14

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/

http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gpentagon/frame.htm

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/10/36235.html

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020412.html

http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2002/05/000020.html

http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2001/11/000021.html

http://www.montalk.net/pentagon.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins040902.asp

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/06/26/france.book/

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/09/10/ar911.osama.exclusive/

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/29/71547.shtml

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg041202.asp

http://www.alternet.org/story/12536/

http://mckinneysucks.blogspot.com/

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=66

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack/

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/4/22/175758.shtml

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/index.html

[shiva2999]

I have, not today mind you but I have within the past week.

Bullshit.

[shiva2999]

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77.htm

http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://paulboutin.weblogger.com/2002/03/14

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/

http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gpentagon/frame.htm

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/10/36235.html

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020412.html

http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2002/05/000020.html

http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2001/11/000021.html

http://www.montalk.net/pentagon.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins040902.asp

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/06/26/france.book/

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/09/10/ar911.osama.exclusive/

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/29/71547.shtml

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg041202.asp

http://www.alternet.org/story/12536/

http://mckinneysucks.blogspot.com/

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=66

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack/

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/4/22/175758.shtml

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/index.html

Wow!

Link bombing!

I'm impressed!

[pmoon6]

Lets get a couple things straight. Number one if I'm guilty of anything its stooping to Shiva's level. Number two he made the comment about spelling and I'm dishing it back to him. Number three I am open to the possibility. Also I remember reading shiva's 9/11 posts and I don't recall any credible sources. However if you want to, dig those threads up and I will take a look.I love it when you get indignant and start talking like this. It makes me tingle all over and you come off as oh tho thuper thexthy.

[Gibby]

Bullshit.

whats your evidence for this one. Oh and I asked for links, funny how Robbie could post links and you could not.

[Gibby]

I love it when you get indignant and start talking like this. It makes me tingle all over and you come off as oh tho thuper thexthy.

knock off the personal attacks.

[35Pete]

shiva....Phantom never makes any sense EVER.

He whipped your ass pretty badly in the Hezbollah thread. Empty claim? You disappeared.

[shiva2999]

He whipped your ass pretty badly in the Hezbollah thread. Empty claim? You disappeared.

:rofl:

The only ass phantom EVER whips is his own.

Ever since I asked him if he was bipolar he's been on a rampage of stupidity and infantilism.

You have to wonder if even he knows what he's trying to prove.

[Gibby]

:rofl:

The only ass phantom EVER whips is his own.

Ever since I asked him if he was bipolar he's been on a rampage of stupidity and infantilism.

You have to wonder if even he knows what he's trying to prove.

Well this is getting old, but once again Ronnie is right. There you go again.

[pmoon6]

knock off the personal attacks.That was a personal attack? Tooo thexy baby. I will refrain from making those attacks, since you are tho thuper thenthative.