Im moving back to Buffalo this Wednesday 6/14/06

[Billsman]

I decided I didn't want to wait any longer, so I'm moving back, Uhaul ordered, packing starts on Tuesday, leaving on Wednesday or Thursday morning.

I cant wait!

[njsue]

Have a safe trip back!

[Billsman]

Thanks Sue. Uhauling my ass back to Buffalo! Ha!

[JLB]

Yeah njsue will this change your name on the avatar?

[Jayhawk]

why? I'd rather go the other way

[JLB]

why? I'd rather go the other way

Seriously N.J. if I may ask you why? :arizona: N.J. is New Jersey

[Billsman]

Jay, been in one of the largest cities in the country for over 21 years, it's time to come home. Pollution, traffic, crime, illegal immigrants, high housing costs and it's freaking hotter than hell here! I miss the rain, snow, clouds, water, green trees and grass.

[Meridius]

Have fun Billsman. Should we plan a welcomiing party, or would you rather we NOT know wher eyou live? ;)

[Billsman]

Seriously N.J. if I may ask you why? :arizona:

Huh? You talking to NJ Sue? :angel3:

[JLB]

Huh? You talking to NJ Sue? :angel3:

No Jayhawk.

[Billsman]

Have fun Billsman. Should we plan a welcomiing party, or would you rather we NOT know wher eyou live? ;)

Mer, I'm moving to Dunkirk until I start a job which is in Hamburg(er)where I'll then move to OP or Ham. A party is a must!! :FBH: These are also a must!

[Meridius]

:FBH: These are also a must!

This is Buffalo - EVERYONE has those..MALE or FEMALE

:sumo:

[Billsman]

Ha!

[njsue]

Thanks Sue. Uhauling my ass back to Buffalo! Ha!


Go via the classic Rt 66. The animated movie out in theatres "cars" is based on the famous Rt. 66 which begins in Illinois an travels thru arizona to California I believe.


Beware of those Smokies!!!!

[MBHSabres]

That would be excellent if he were headed to Chicago.

[Billsman]

Ive been on RT 66, it's not all it's made out to be. I'll be taking I40 most of the way.

2,192 miles in a UHaul!

[njsue]

Ive been on RT 66, it's not all it's made out to be. I'll be taking I40 most of the way.

2,192 miles in a UHaul!


YIKES you will be spending a $$$ fortune in gas fill ups.

[BillsFan0688]

Have fun with the U-Haul BM. I drove a Budget rental truck a couple weekends ago not nearly as far as you have to, but for about 600 miles. It definitely takes some getting used to when you first get the truck and don't even mention the gas.

Have a safe trip.

[shotgun]

maybe the other 500.000 that left over the last 20 year willl be behind u NOT!

[Napalm]

Mer, I'm moving to Dunkirk until I start a job which is in Hamburg(er)where I'll then move to OP or Ham. A party is a must!! :FBH: These are also a must!


Back to Dunkirk, eh? Cool, have to meet up for a brew when you get back

[Billsman]

Napalm, you bet bro!

[Billsman]

maybe the other 500.000 that left over the last 20 year willl be behind u NOT!

My realtor said that a lot of people are moving back to WNY for the same reasons I am. I am not alone. =)

[DropTheGloves]

Welcome Back.

[Meridius]

You heard the man, lets party :D

[Billsman]

Thanks Losman! Mer, this is why I luvs ya!

[Meridius]

now where can we have a party for Billsman??http://www.diegotorres.com.ar/mensajeitor/foro/caritas/120103_emA44_prv.gif

[gr8slayer]

Have a safe trip.

[Billsman]

Thanks all, will be off the pc for some time. AT least it wont be snowing for my journey back! :)

[Meridius]

Nah snow is not due util next week ;)

[THATHURMANATOR]

Buffalo is poised for a re birth! I can really feel it. It has already started. I know quite a few people that have moved away that are in the process of looking to come back.

[Billsman]

Get in while the housing is still cheap!

[M76]

you gettin season tickets???!?!

[Billsman]

I sure am! Have one already lined up, 39 rows up, Bills side, 47 yard line, 9 seats in.

[35Pete]

Buffalo is poised for a re birth! I can really feel it. It has already started. I know quite a few people that have moved away that are in the process of looking to come back.
Punative taxes. You are dreaming.

[sukie]

Pete... whats the over/under in BM gaining 40 lbs by football season?

[Billsman]

Its very good! One thing, I'll be living off the beach, so I'll be running on the sand every day. What I do at night though could have harmful effects though. lol

[jjcityman]

Congradulations Billsman! I am right behind you moving back to Buffalo last week of June,for the same reasons as you.Florida is a great place to vacation but very different to live down here,so back home I will go.

[Billsman]

JJ, we will meet over a brew, my dime.

[35Pete]

Congradulations Billsman! I am right behind you moving back to Buffalo last week of June,for the same reasons as you.Florida is a great place to vacation but very different to live down here,so back home I will go.
How long have you lived in Florida? I am going on my 16th year. I love Buffalo but I would have to take a 40% pay cut to move. Plus visually it is SOOO run down compared to Florida. Just warning you. It is like East Germany in the 70's, but not as asthetic.

[Billsman]

How long have you lived in Florida? I am going on my 16th year. I love Buffalo but I would have to take a 40% pay cut to move. Plus visually it is SOOO run down compared to Florida. Just warning you. It is like East Germany in the 70's, but not as asthetic.
:rolleyes2

[njsue]

BM, Watch out for Thumps in the road enroute to WYN. :D

[jjcityman]

Pete I have lived in Florida for 7 1/2 years now.Started out 2 yrs. in Orlando,followed by 3 yrs. in Coconut Creek,I have currently live in Boynton Beach where I been for 2 1/2 yrs. I do agree with you about the asthetics between both places. I personally am not impressed with endless strip malls with neon lights which dominate Florida. I love Buffalo's character and history. Bottomline is I will be getting married soon and starting a family and Buffalo is hands down the better place to raise kids. I will not miss the heat and humidity,endless rain,hurricanes,power outages,rude people,brutal traffic,lack of customer service,foreign country atmosphere,and high cost of living. But if you really hate change of seasons,and you are a beach,boating,and fishing guy you are in the right place. Personally I cant wait to go HOME!!!

[mmiller]

Rick, hope to see you at one of the terminal events this summer. Welcome home!

[THATHURMANATOR]

How long have you lived in Florida? I am going on my 16th year. I love Buffalo but I would have to take a 40% pay cut to move. Plus visually it is SOOO run down compared to Florida. Just warning you. It is like East Germany in the 70's, but not as asthetic.
Why bother posting here? You don't even know what you are talking about. Stay in Florida please!

[35Pete]

Why bother posting here? You don't even know what you are talking about. Stay in Florida please!
Huhhh????????????????????

I lived in Buffalo for 24 years. I KNOW what I am talking about. First let me say that I love the people of Buffalo. Finest people in the United States. Literally. Truly the City of Good Neighbors. When people help neighbors after a hurricane down here the local media runs it as a head story. They are shocked. When people help others after a blizzard in Buffalo the media runs it 15 minutes into the news as a 30 second clip. And that is the cue to go get a beer or check on the roast. Yawn....

Buffalo pizza is the best in the nation. Wings, Beef on Weck, Loganberry, Salen's hot dogs...on and on....

Problem: Buffalo is dying . Why? Because the idiots that vote there can't stop jacking off to the memory of FDR and the New Deal. This is 2006. A global economy. Slash taxes, services, entice business to relocate with HUGE tax credits. Control the goddamned unions. Those jobs will ALL wind up in China, even the UAW jobs, trust me. My company has already sent almost all 50,000 blue collar manufacturing jobs overseas. And the 800 blue collar union jobs we support in Elmira? Guaranteed your unemployment rolls are going up soon.

I love Buffalo. But you people need to change your way of thinking. I will NOT take a 40% pay cut to live there. Ohh, BTW. Buffalo's cost of living is EQUAL to South Florida. Pathetic!!! Why? TAXES!!!! You spend as much but you don't get nearly the benefit as down here. Why? Democrats immersed in the 1930's.

[sukie]

Dead on balls accurate, Pete.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Huhhh????????????????????

I lived in Buffalo for 24 years. I KNOW what I am talking about. First let me say that I love the people of Buffalo. Finest people in the United States. Literally. Truly the City of Good Neighbors. When people help neighbors after a hurricane down here the local media runs it as a head story. They are shocked. When people help others after a blizzard in Buffalo the media runs it 15 minutes into the news as a 30 second clip. And that is the cue to go get a beer or check on the roast. Yawn....

Buffalo pizza is the best in the nation. Wings, Beef on Weck, Loganberry, Salen's hot dogs...on and on....

Problem: Buffalo is dying . Why? Because the idiots that vote there can't stop jacking off to the memory of FDR and the New Deal. This is 2006. A global economy. Slash taxes, services, entice business to relocate with HUGE tax credits. Control the goddamned unions. Those jobs will ALL wind up in China, even the UAW jobs, trust me. My company has already sent almost all 50,000 blue collar manufacturing jobs overseas. And the 800 blue collar union jobs we support in Elmira? Guaranteed your unemployment rolls are going up soon.

I love Buffalo. But you people need to change your way of thinking. I will NOT take a 40% pay cut to live there. Ohh, BTW. Buffalo's cost of living is EQUAL to South Florida. Pathetic!!! Why? TAXES!!!! You spend as much but you don't get nearly the benefit as down here. Why? Democrats immersed in the 1930's.
Where did you live? When is the last time you have been back. I sir have lived in buffalo for 29 years(my age) with a 4 year hiatus for college. For you to say Buffalo doesn't even have the astethetics of pre world war East Germany proves ignorance. No one is saying Buffalo is a paradise but get real man. I have had no problems getting a very good job either.

[SabreGirl]

My realtor said that a lot of people are moving back to WNY for the same reasons I am. I am not alone. =)
I believe this. I have live all over and I can’t wait to get back to Buffalo. I will be moving back from Dallas to Buffalo in the Spring when my current lease is up. I will be giving up a great job to relocate, but it's worth it to me. I can’t stand it here any more. I miss Buffalo very much.

Jay, been in one of the largest cities in the country for over 21 years, it's time to come home. Pollution, traffic, crime, illegal immigrants, high housing costs and it's freaking hotter than hell here! I miss the rain, snow, clouds, water, green trees and grass.
Amen to that!

Buffalo is poised for a re birth! I can really feel it. It has already started. I know quite a few people that have moved away that are in the process of looking to come back.
I believe that there will be a number of people moving back as well. I’m bringing my best friend with me to Buffalo. He’s spent all but 5 years of his life in California, but cannot stand Texas either and CA is too expensive.

maybe the other 500,000 that left over the last 20 year willl be behind u NOT! Like I said, Shotgun…don’t be too surprised if a number of people do come back. Buffalo really is a wonderful place to grow up and make a life. Trust me, I’ve tried to find the brass ring in many cities that I thought would be the ultimate place to live (Miami Beach, Sarasota, West Palm Beach, etc) and they all were not nearly in the same category as our northeastern city. Neon strip malls is a great comparison. Plus, hurricanes, alligators, heat, humidity -- whew! No thanks...

I do agree with you about the asthetics between both places. I personally am not impressed with endless strip malls with neon lights which dominate Florida. I love Buffalo's character and history. Bottomline is I will be getting married soon and starting a family and Buffalo is hands down the better place to raise kids. I will not miss the heat and humidity,endless rain,hurricanes,power outages,rude people,brutal traffic,lack of customer service,foreign country atmosphere,and high cost of living. But if you really hate change of seasons,and you are a beach,boating,and fishing guy you are in the right place. Personally I cant wait to go HOME!!! I totally agree. There are definite drawbacks to both places, but when the dust settles, I like to know that if it’s a bit too cold and rainy for me, I can VISIT Florida and come home again feeling like I was treated to a bit of heaven, but able to come home to a city with character!

I love Buffalo. But you people need to change your way of thinking. I will NOT take a 40% pay cut to live there. Ohh, BTW. Buffalo's cost of living is EQUAL to South Florida. Pathetic!!! Why? TAXES!!!! You spend as much but you don't get nearly the benefit as down here. Why? Democrats immersed in the 1930's.
Pete, having lived in both places, I disagree with you. I have changed my way of thinking and that's why I'm headed home. I tried finding the ultimate place to live and you know what? It doesn't exist. Every place has trade offs. Sounds like Florida is perfect for you, but it’s far from perfect for everyone, like me. I liked certain places in Florida and would consider trying it again, but right now, being young, Florida is not the place I want to live. When I retire I can go there and be just another q-tip behind the wheel in endless traffic. I also checked out the "cost of living" comparison and, although it may seem the same, according to the site I used, on a 100% country-wide comparison, Buffalo is 85.7% of the national average and South Florida is 130.6% of the national average. So, perhaps you can share your source. Here's mine: http://www.bestplaces.net/city/profile.aspx?cat=COSTLIV&city=Buffalo_NY&ccity=Boca_Raton_FL Miami Beach was even higher at 186.2. Tampa was the lowest at 97% -- still higher than Buffalo. Dallas is slightly (one point) lower, but the intangibles are non-negotiable for me! :D

Right now, there's plenty to do in Buffalo and I can't wait to get there!

Good luck, BillsMan!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Dead on balls accurate, Pete.
From another guy in Florida....

[HURLS]

For every 2 of you moving back, there's 3 heading out.

[sukie]

From another guy in Florida....
from another guy that couldn't handle a 40k paycut and tax structure.

[HURLS]

and resides in the 2nd place MB

[THATHURMANATOR]

I believe this. I have live all over and I can’t wait to get back to Buffalo. I will be moving back from Dallas to Buffalo in the Spring when my current lease is up. I will be giving up a great job to relocate, but it's worth it to me. I can’t stand it here any more. I miss Buffalo very much.


Amen to that!


I believe that there will be a number of people moving back as well. I’m bringing my best friend with me to Buffalo. He’s spent all but 5 years of his life in California, but cannot stand Texas either and CA is too expensive.

Like I said, Shotgun…don’t be too surprised if a number of people do come back. Buffalo really is a wonderful place to grow up and make a life. Trust me, I’ve tried to find the brass ring in many cities that I thought would be the ultimate place to live (Miami Beach, Sarasota, West Palm Beach, etc) and they all were not nearly in the same category as our northeastern city. Neon strip malls is a great comparison. Plus, hurricanes, alligators, heat, humidity -- whew! No thanks...

I totally agree. There are definite drawbacks to both places, but when the dust settles, I like to know that if it’s a bit too cold and rainy for me, I can VISIT Florida and come home again feeling like I was treated to a bit of heaven, but able to come home to a city with character!


Pete, having lived in both places, I disagree with you. I have changed my way of thinking and that's why I'm headed home. I tried finding the ultimate place to live and you know what? It doesn't exist. Every place has trade offs. Sounds like Florida is perfect for you, but it’s far from perfect for everyone, like me. I liked certain places in Florida and would consider trying it again, but right now, being young, Florida is not the place I want to live. When I retire I can go there and be just another q-tip behind the wheel in endless traffic. I also checked out the "cost of living" comparison and, although it may seem the same, according to the site I used, on a 100% country-wide comparison, Buffalo is 85.7% of the national average and South Florida is 130.6% of the national average. So, perhaps you can share your source. Here's mine: http://www.bestplaces.net/city/profile.aspx?cat=COSTLIV&city=Buffalo_NY&ccity=Boca_Raton_FL Miami Beach was even higher at 186.2. Tampa was the lowest at 97% -- still higher than Buffalo. Dallas is slightly (one point) lower, but the intangibles are non-negotiable for me! :D

Right now, there's plenty to do in Buffalo and I can't wait to get there!

Good luck, BillsMan!
Great post. These guys are just the typical negative Creeps that are the problem with Buffalo, couple that with the fact they don't even live here and it is just a waste of time to argue with them. They announced that Buffalo has issued the 3 times as many building permits this year than the last 3 combined. Are there run down areas? Yes but things are on the up swing!

[HURLS]

Those 2 have over double the Buffalo experience you two do. I'll take the word of the Range's respected voices over another Board's intruder's word.

[BillyT92679]

The ultimate thing is, if people don't move here, there will be no such thing as the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres anymore.

[HURLS]

Everything happens for a reason.

[THATHURMANATOR]

from another guy that couldn't handle a 40k paycut and tax structure.
Hey I have no problems with you moving man. 40k is totally understandable. I am just saying don't hate.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Those 2 have over double the Buffalo experience you two do. I'll take the word of the Range's respected voices over another Board's intruder's word.
I have lived here for 29 years. How do they have more "Buffalo" experience?

[THATHURMANATOR]

I have lived right downtown for 4 years now. I can see things changing for the better every day. New business's opening, Construction on new housing, new restaurants opening. Don't believe me I really don't care. Take the word of a couple of dudes living in Florida if you want.

[THATHURMANATOR]

For every 2 of you moving back, there's 3 heading out.
Nope

[THATHURMANATOR]

and resides in the 2nd place MB
I have been on this board longer than you man.

[35Pete]

Great post. These guys are just the typical negative Creeps that are the problem with Buffalo, couple that with the fact they don't even live here and it is just a waste of time to argue with them. They announced that Buffalo has issued the 3 times as many building permits this year than the last 3 combined. Are there run down areas? Yes but things are on the up swing!
First of all "creeps" is a little rough, and technically a TOS violation,but hey, I am chill so I'll let it slide because you are probably passionate about this. Most Buffalonians don't want to hear that their city is dying. When the big economic news is "Buffalo gets a Bass Pro Shops" you know you are in trouble. I lived there for 24 years. Since birth. Went to high school and University there (UB, my first degree).

I just mentioned the "big news" 30 seconds ago to my friends here and they laughed their asses off. Same response. "That city is in big trouble".

Show me a year, since 1965, where the Buffalo population either remained stagnent or increased. Just one and I'll shut up.

Buffalo is not on the upswing. Hyperbole and bull shit flat out lies. the city is dying. It is NOT growing. I LOVE Buffalo and it really does pain me to say that but who would want to live there with taxes the way they are and the economy worse than Belize, or even worse, Morgantown, WV?

Sorry, the truth hurts. Prove me wrong with facts. Wants facts, I have them on my PC already.

GO BILLS!!!!!!

[uppy]

The North East is losing people...Mass has lost over a 1,000,000 in the past 20 years and two US house seats.The south will only get stronger and the
north will start to fade away.Companys keep moving out and at some point
the big name schools will.

[ckg68]

Know how you bring Buffalo back to major city status? (Yes,I know-and you're right: this is a pipe dream,knowing how NYS and regional politics work,but...)Absorb the first and maybe the second ring of suburbs into the city. OVERNIGHT,you gain a whole boatload of people and vault many places in the population rankings.

And don't laugh;there are cities that have done this and created mega cities. Here in the States,Louisville has done this;in Canada,Montreal went this route.

[35Pete]

We Buffalonians are very sensitive to criticism. More than any other city I think. Buffalo is not even in the big league cities anymore. And I think it will shrink until it stabilizes to the size of Green Bay, WI.

But really. You think I am just trying to be mean? I can't sacrifice what I have here to move back "on principle" to try to make a change. Change is up to you guys. Yet many here are fiddling while Rome burns. It will get bad enough where the Bills must move, it will. Corner seats at Raymond James Stadium (Tampa) or Dolphins Stadium are like 2x what you pay at the Ralph. Why? Because people are better off financially and can pay them. And there are a LOT more people in those areas.

Don't like criticism of Buffalo? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Toss out the politicians and scream bloody murder for drastic change. Because what they've been doing since the mid 1960's ain't working. And electing that union felating mayor Brown was a peach of a "same as it ever was" kind of move.

[pmoon6]

Jay, been in one of the largest cities in the country for over 21 years, it's time to come home. Pollution, traffic, crime, illegal immigrants, high housing costs and it's freaking hotter than hell here! I miss the rain, snow, clouds, water, green trees and grass.I here ya, I lived in Houston for 21 years and the last few, I was looking to transfer back to the Buffalo area because of the exact things you mentioned. I couldn't get a transfer and thought I might be stuck and then I got offered a position here in Colorado. Worked out great, the weather is very Buffalo like, even though we sit at 9,000 feet. The only thing I miss about WNY is my family and the gastronomic delights that the area offers. Good luck.

[Billsman]

Well, I made it back home in 55 hours, slept as needed, maybe a total of 6 hours, left Phoenix at 11am and got in WNY, Dunkirk at 6pm on Saturday.

The state, WNY, is simply beautiful!!! Words alone can not begin to tell you how nice it is. Ive been job hunting the past day and there's plenty of well paying jobs out here, I have a trade so I wont have much of a problem, Im just taking my time with things.

The air is clean, grass is green , trees are green it's a wonderful feeling to finally be back home.

ps The food and people are simply terrific, Im on a diet (ha) so I have to watch what and how much I eat or I'll gain 50lbs in a month!

I'll write more as I get settled in.

Rick

[Jayhawk]

oh you'll love how shitty the roads are, I live close to downtown, and every street is either torn up or so crappy it needs to be torn up

[Billsman]

The roads are ok, to me anyway. The houses here are dirt cheap, I looked at 2 yesterday that were 100 yards from the beach for under $80k.

[twosheds]

Every time I think about
back home
It's cool and breezy
I wish that I could be there
right now
Just passing time.

[Jayhawk]

The roads are ok, to me anyway. The houses here are dirt cheap, I looked at 2 yesterday that were 100 yards from the beach for under $80k.
yeha i found for apartments it's insanely cheap too, which for a grad student is a good thing

[HURLS]

I have been on this board longer than you man.

Just busting your balls my man!

[THATHURMANATOR]

I know! :D

[mead107]

Huhhh????????????????????

I lived in Buffalo for 24 years. I KNOW what I am talking about. First let me say that I love the people of Buffalo. Finest people in the United States. Literally. Truly the City of Good Neighbors. When people help neighbors after a hurricane down here the local media runs it as a head story. They are shocked. When people help others after a blizzard in Buffalo the media runs it 15 minutes into the news as a 30 second clip. And that is the cue to go get a beer or check on the roast. Yawn....

Buffalo pizza is the best in the nation. Wings, Beef on Weck, Loganberry, Salen's hot dogs...on and on....

Problem: Buffalo is dying . Why? Because the idiots that vote there can't stop jacking off to the memory of FDR and the New Deal. This is 2006. A global economy. Slash taxes, services, entice business to relocate with HUGE tax credits. Control the goddamned unions. Those jobs will ALL wind up in China, even the UAW jobs, trust me. My company has already sent almost all 50,000 blue collar manufacturing jobs overseas. And the 800 blue collar union jobs we support in Elmira? Guaranteed your unemployment rolls are going up soon.

what do you want from the union worker ?? work for 6 dollars per hr and a free meal at pizza hut ??control the damm company . send work over seas pay 50cents a day to some poor kid that is 8 years old and has to work 12 hr days 6 days a week . i see no cost reduction in what i buy . greedy ****ing *******s just want to make more money .

[HURLS]

You lost me after saying Buffalo has the greatest Pizza. I'll take NYC or Chicago's anyday over a greasy slab from La Novas

[35Pete]

[QUOTE=35Pete]Huhhh????????????????????

I lived in Buffalo for 24 years. I KNOW what I am talking about. First let me say that I love the people of Buffalo. Finest people in the United States. Literally. Truly the City of Good Neighbors. When people help neighbors after a hurricane down here the local media runs it as a head story. They are shocked. When people help others after a blizzard in Buffalo the media runs it 15 minutes into the news as a 30 second clip. And that is the cue to go get a beer or check on the roast. Yawn....

Buffalo pizza is the best in the nation. Wings, Beef on Weck, Loganberry, Salen's hot dogs...on and on....

Problem: Buffalo is dying . Why? Because the idiots that vote there can't stop jacking off to the memory of FDR and the New Deal. This is 2006. A global economy. Slash taxes, services, entice business to relocate with HUGE tax credits. Control the goddamned unions. Those jobs will ALL wind up in China, even the UAW jobs, trust me. My company has already sent almost all 50,000 blue collar manufacturing jobs overseas. And the 800 blue collar union jobs we support in Elmira? Guaranteed your unemployment rolls are going up soon.

what do you want from the union worker ?? work for 6 dollars per hr and a free meal at pizza hut ??control the damm company . send work over seas pay 50cents a day to some poor kid that is 8 years old and has to work 12 hr days 6 days a week . i see no cost reduction in what i buy . greedy ****ing *******s just want to make more money .

Hey. Nothing personal but get your head deep out of your rear. No one is saying 6 bucks an hour. But if that is the market worth on putting a housing on a cell phone on an assembly line than that job BELONGS in China where they can do it for $2 an hour. FACT. Work in corporate America. My stock profits, which fuel my retirement (so I don't have to eat cat food) are more important than your livlihood. Sorry. I own the company as a stockholder. And that makes me more important than you. Want to increase your worth and hence income? Get an education or a skilled trade. I do not exist to provide for your welfare. And as a stockholder when you ask me to do so you are LEECHING OFF ME.

Your family starves because of it? Your bad not mine. Should not have been lazy. Demand from me when you had the power to better yourself? Who's fault is that?

That is the problem with Buffalo. People that think they are "entitled".

Personally if you are a union member you should be disgusted with yourself. Bunch of goddamned leaches. Welfare at gunpoint. Unions were dammned necessary at one point. Now the members should be ashamed. Being paid MORE than they are worth. The Big Three Automakers biggest problem? A LOT of that assemby can be more efficiently done with automation. The UAW would wreck the industry if they tried that.

[Mouldsie]

You lost me after saying Buffalo has the greatest Pizza. I'll take NYC or Chicago's anyday over a greasy slab from La Novas
you? and pizza is what you base your economic views on?

[HURLS]

you? and pizza is what you base your economic views on?

I was quoting him, don't take it up with me. He said Buffalo has the best Pizza. Don't see you chiding him Homer.

[gilchristfan]

Huhhh????????????????????

I lived in Buffalo for 24 years. I KNOW what I am talking about. First let me say that I love the people of Buffalo. Finest people in the United States. Literally. Truly the City of Good Neighbors. When people help neighbors after a hurricane down here the local media runs it as a head story. They are shocked. When people help others after a blizzard in Buffalo the media runs it 15 minutes into the news as a 30 second clip. And that is the cue to go get a beer or check on the roast. Yawn....

Buffalo pizza is the best in the nation. Wings, Beef on Weck, Loganberry, Salen's hot dogs...on and on....

Problem: Buffalo is dying . Why? Because the idiots that vote there can't stop jacking off to the memory of FDR and the New Deal. This is 2006. A global economy. Slash taxes, services, entice business to relocate with HUGE tax credits. Control the goddamned unions. Those jobs will ALL wind up in China, even the UAW jobs, trust me. My company has already sent almost all 50,000 blue collar manufacturing jobs overseas. And the 800 blue collar union jobs we support in Elmira? Guaranteed your unemployment rolls are going up soon.

what do you want from the union worker ?? work for 6 dollars per hr and a free meal at pizza hut ??control the damm company . send work over seas pay 50cents a day to some poor kid that is 8 years old and has to work 12 hr days 6 days a week . i see no cost reduction in what i buy . greedy ****ing *******s just want to make more money



Hey. Nothing personal but get your head deep out of your rear. No one is saying 6 bucks an hour. But if that is the market worth on putting a housing on a cell phone on an assembly line than that job BELONGS in China where they can do it for $2 an hour. FACT. Work in corporate America. My stock profits, which fuel my retirement (so I don't have to eat cat food) are more important than your livlihood. Sorry. I own the company as a stockholder. And that makes me more important than you. Want to increase your worth and hence income? Get an education or a skilled trade. I do not exist to provide for your welfare. And as a stockholder when you ask me to do so you are LEECHING OFF ME.

Your family starves because of it? Your bad not mine. Should not have been lazy. Demand from me when you had the power to better yourself? Who's fault is that?

That is the problem with Buffalo. People that think they are "entitled".

Personally if you are a union member you should be disgusted with yourself. Bunch of goddamned leaches. Welfare at gunpoint. Unions were dammned necessary at one point. Now the members should be ashamed. Being paid MORE than they are worth. The Big Three Automakers biggest problem? A LOT of that assemby can be more efficiently done with automation. The UAW would wreck the industry if they tried that.


Do you always tell yourself to take your head out of your ass?

????

[HURLS]

Only on Mondays, Wednesdays, and alternate fridays. Oh, I forgot Tuesdays, Thursdays, weekends, and the leftover Fridays.

[35Pete]

Do you always tell yourself to take your head out of your ass?

????
:rofl:

I went on a rant that I should not have. If there is a God then this is how he punishes people. By making them look stupid. You know I could edit it, but I'll let it stay. LOL

*pulling my head out of my ass*.....My point is that Buffalonians should not be clamouring for $17/hour for a job that people know damn well is going to be done overseas for a fraction of that. Ohh they could, and even get the government to FORCE companies to pay up. But our overseas competitors, not bound by those laws, would eat us for lunch.

Why do Buffalonians think Buffalonians "can't do"? I don't think so at all. Instead of saying "Gimme X dollars to assemble this axle!" they should be saying "What are we doing to get bonafide good jobs here where I win and the company wins?"

Buffalo should do it's damndest to go high tech. Smart people there. Trust me. The REAL high tech stuff is NEVER done in the cheap labor markets. Some of the high tech stuff can only be done in advanced nations like Canada, the US, ect...Many reasons and if you really want to know I'll get into it.

We are in the information age. Buffalo seems stuck in the industrial age. That really needs to change. And for every engineer, industrial designer, and marketing expert on a high tech project there are at least 2 good paying jobs (40k+/year) that do not require a college education. Interesting jobs with personal growth potential which make them infinitely more satisfying then assembling a widget. What would you rather have? A $17/hour job trained as a circuit inspector that is worth 17 an hour or a $17/hour job assembling widgets that is worth 4/hour? At least the former you would also have more job security too.

[njsue]

Well, I made it back home in 55 hours, slept as needed, maybe a total of 6 hours, left Phoenix at 11am and got in WNY, Dunkirk at 6pm on Saturday.

The state, WNY, is simply beautiful!!! Words alone can not begin to tell you how nice it is. Ive been job hunting the past day and there's plenty of well paying jobs out here, I have a trade so I wont have much of a problem, Im just taking my time with things.

The air is clean, grass is green , trees are green it's a wonderful feeling to finally be back home.

ps The food and people are simply terrific, Im on a diet (ha) so I have to watch what and how much I eat or I'll gain 50lbs in a month!

I'll write more as I get settled in.

Rick


Glad to see you & your wife made it safely. :)

[HURLS]

wife?

[gilchristfan]

:rofl:

I went on a rant that I should not have. If there is a God then this is how he punishes people. By making them look stupid. You know I could edit it, but I'll let it stay. LOL

*pulling my head out of my ass*.....My point is that Buffalonians should not be clamouring for $17/hour for a job that people know damn well is going to be done overseas for a fraction of that. Ohh they could, and even get the government to FORCE companies to pay up. But our overseas competitors, not bound by those laws, would eat us for lunch.

Why do Buffalonians think Buffalonians "can't do"? I don't think so at all. Instead of saying "Gimme X dollars to assemble this axle!" they should be saying "What are we doing to get bonafide good jobs here where I win and the company wins?"

Buffalo should do it's damndest to go high tech. Smart people there. Trust me. The REAL high tech stuff is NEVER done in the cheap labor markets. Some of the high tech stuff can only be done in advanced nations like Canada, the US, ect...Many reasons and if you really want to know I'll get into it.

We are in the information age. Buffalo seems stuck in the industrial age. That really needs to change. And for every engineer, industrial designer, and marketing expert on a high tech project there are at least 2 good paying jobs (40k+/year) that do not require a college education. Interesting jobs with personal growth potential which make them infinitely more satisfying then assembling a widget. What would you rather have? A $17/hour job trained as a circuit inspector that is worth 17 an hour or a $17/hour job assembling widgets that is worth 4/hour? At least the former you would also have more job security too.

I agree with alot of what you're saying, but I don't see why the UAW or, the AFL-CIO would prevent a company like, say, Intel, from coming to Buffalo. They're in a completely different labor market. Since Intel isn't going to be hiring assembly line people for chip design positions, (or tech positions), they wouldn't have any fear of unionization. Chances are, they'll be paying people enough that they wouldn't want a union.

Remember, as you yourself know, the problem with the exodus is the educated people that can't find a job when they graduate. Most of those won't be union anyways.

If anything, I'd think the lower cost of living in Buffalo, especially housing, could be exploited to lure a few companies there. For instance, the company my wife works for is a medium sized financial company with a national market (it started as a local life insurance company, but its now more of mutual fund, pension/401k management, annuity company). Its medium sized, about $12 billion under management and about $2 billion in sales. They've been recruited by other cities, and probably still are. One of the things that keeps them here, (besides being a company that started here), is that its labor force is less expensive. If in NYC, or Washington, or LA, she'd be making at least twice what she is making now, simply because the cost of living is cheaper.

That's the real reason they stay.

I don't know how aggressive Buffalo is in recruiting companies, but I know alot of other cities that are, especially cities like San Antonio, Atlanta and Dallas. Full time strike forces that are constantly hitting the Fortune 500 companies, armed with a huge amount of incentives for relocation. But that takes alot of government involvement, (tax incentives, cheap land, etc, etc).

I think you're right, that the mentality of Buffalo could be stuck in the past, but I just don't know how unions are affecting the recruitment of companies needing a more highly trained workforce.

[nickypap52]

So does this mean our bartender will be at the Pinto more this year?

[35Pete]

I agree with alot of what you're saying, but I don't see why the UAW or, the AFL-CIO would prevent a company like, say, Intel, from coming to Buffalo. They're in a completely different labor market. Since Intel isn't going to be hiring assembly line people for chip design positions, (or tech positions), they wouldn't have any fear of unionization. Chances are, they'll be paying people enough that they wouldn't want a union.

Remember, as you yourself know, the problem with the exodus is the educated people that can't find a job when they graduate. Most of those won't be union anyways.

If anything, I'd think the lower cost of living in Buffalo, especially housing, could be exploited to lure a few companies there. For instance, the company my wife works for is a medium sized financial company with a national market (it started as a local life insurance company, but its now more of mutual fund, pension/401k management, annuity company). Its medium sized, about $12 billion under management and about $2 billion in sales. They've been recruited by other cities, and probably still are. One of the things that keeps them here, (besides being a company that started here), is that its labor force is less expensive. If in NYC, or Washington, or LA, she'd be making at least twice what she is making now, simply because the cost of living is cheaper.

That's the real reason they stay.

I don't know how aggressive Buffalo is in recruiting companies, but I know alot of other cities that are, especially cities like San Antonio, Atlanta and Dallas. Full time strike forces that are constantly hitting the Fortune 500 companies, armed with a huge amount of incentives for relocation. But that takes alot of government involvement, (tax incentives, cheap land, etc, etc).

I think you're right, that the mentality of Buffalo could be stuck in the past, but I just don't know how unions are affecting the recruitment of companies needing a more highly trained workforce.
Well I can speak of tech companies and there is no way around an employee structure that would not require workers eligible for unionization. Prototype labs, development assembly lines, test equipment engineering, mechanical fab labs. This is all skilled labor. And union benefits would add up real quick. And in Buffalo those depts. for a new company would be unionized about 8 minutes after the announcement in the Buffalo News that the company was relocating. That's enough. That's enough to deter a company looking for any and every edge it can to remain competitive.

[HURLS]

Did anyone see yesterday's article in the Buff News about how fast Buffalo is losing people? #1 reason was Jobs, jobs, jobs

[SabreGirl]

Did anyone see yesterday's article in the Buff News about how fast Buffalo is losing people? #1 reason was Jobs, jobs, jobs

No, I didn't. But, I went and found it. Here it is for anyone interested. http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...21/1030191.asp

It certainly isn't encouraging. However, I found that the problem (to me) stems from this type of attitude: "The numbers aren't surprising, but no less alarming, said Robert B. Ward, director of research for the Business Council of New York. "Buffalo and other cities in upstate have been declining for a half-century now," Ward said. "We keep hoping something will turn that around, but unfortunately we haven't seen it."

They are 'hoping' something will turn around? Like what...magic fairy dust that brings businesses to town? My god they are maddening. They need to bring people to town by actively seeking them out. As gilchristfan said, other cities are doing this. Dallas is growing so damn fast it's not funny. You see construction all over the place from new homes and offices to new roads (highways). How are they doing it? They are making offers to companies to get them here.

Problem is, once they get here, they see that there is a problem with finding decent help. Many lack reliability, skill-level and even just common sense. I am soaring through my company having earned 4 promotions in 4 years in a 3 person department!!! My salary has more than doubled from when I started because there's not an abundance of good help with any brains. I know that when we replaced the lowest level employee, we went through 26 temps in a 12 month period because they sent us such poor candidates (and that was from every agency in town!) Really helped me though because I usually had to re-do what they did and just took on more responsibility, etc and before I knew it...I was head of the department. I will take a big decrease in pay to move back but, life is short and money isn't everything. As long as I can get decent pay and survive (I'm a paralegal so I have a trade) I will be thrilled to be among the land of the civil. I hate it so much here I could scream.

I think the 20 to 40 year old population of Buffalo should band together and just demand the ousting of the politicians and just start over. The city and county govt doesn't work and hasn't worked since before Giambra and Masiello. They need to change with the times. Dallas has a very VERY determined (female) Mayor that is a damn bulldog. This chick takes anyone on and rarely loses or loses her composure. She MAKES things happen and dares the rest to stop her. They have tried repeatedly to foil her and defeat her and she never loses. THAT is the kind of person we need. She, single-handedly has made a great impact on Dallas and its progress.

Sorry to rant, but I am extremely passionate about this subject. Buffalo is an awesome place that is being beaten down by those that "represent" us. As long as they get their expenses and paycheck, screw everybody else. (Not all of them -- but A LOT of them)

[35Pete]

No, I didn't. But, I went and found it. Here it is for anyone interested. http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...21/1030191.asp

It certainly isn't encouraging. However, I found that the problem (to me) stems from this type of attitude: "The numbers aren't surprising, but no less alarming, said Robert B. Ward, director of research for the Business Council of New York. "Buffalo and other cities in upstate have been declining for a half-century now," Ward said. "We keep hoping something will turn that around, but unfortunately we haven't seen it."

They are 'hoping' something will turn around? Like what...magic fairy dust that brings businesses to town? My god they are maddening. They need to bring people to town by actively seeking them out. As gilchristfan said, other cities are doing this. Dallas is growing so damn fast it's not funny. You see construction all over the place from new homes and offices to new roads (highways). How are they doing it? They are making offers to companies to get them here.

Problem is, once they get here, they see that there is a problem with finding decent help. Many lack reliability, skill-level and even just common sense. I am soaring through my company having earned 4 promotions in 4 years in a 3 person department!!! My salary has more than doubled from when I started because there's not an abundance of good help with any brains. I know that when we replaced the lowest level employee, we went through 26 temps in a 12 month period because they sent us such poor candidates (and that was from every agency in town!) Really helped me though because I usually had to re-do what they did and just took on more responsibility, etc and before I knew it...I was head of the department. I will take a big decrease in pay to move back but, life is short and money isn't everything. As long as I can get decent pay and survive (I'm a paralegal so I have a trade) I will be thrilled to be among the land of the civil. I hate it so much here I could scream.

I think the 20 to 40 year old population of Buffalo should band together and just demand the ousting of the politicians and just start over. The city and county govt doesn't work and hasn't worked since before Giambra and Masiello. They need to change with the times. Dallas has a very VERY determined (female) Mayor that is a damn bulldog. This chick takes anyone on and rarely loses or loses her composure. She MAKES things happen and dares the rest to stop her. They have tried repeatedly to foil her and defeat her and she never loses. THAT is the kind of person we need. She, single-handedly has made a great impact on Dallas and its progress.

Sorry to rant, but I am extremely passionate about this subject. Buffalo is an awesome place that is being beaten down by those that "represent" us. As long as they get their expenses and paycheck, screw everybody else. (Not all of them -- but A LOT of them)

WHAT A FANTASTIC POST!!!! :clapper:

Sending you a rose for this one.

[HURLS]

Sending you a rose for this one.

I'm telling.

[SabreGirl]

Thanks, Pete. And Hurls...you stay out of this! :D

I have lived in a good number of places around the country and they all have definite upsides, but when you see these "premier" cities up close and personal, it's all fluff and lures. Texas has the best marketing system of any other state I have seen. "Everything's bigger in Texas"; "Don't Mess With Texas"; "America's Team" etc. Try living here. You see so much that makes you question what is so good about it? There's no water, summer is hell on earth, electric bills in June-October are more than some car payments, a good number of drivers have no insurance, it is dusty and dry and brown (dead) in the summer. Most of the state is one big, giant parking lot (it's so flat) -- but people keep buying into the hype it because "it's cool...everyone says it is." When I compare the places I've lived with Buffalo, there is no comparison -- EXCEPT the economy. Southern cities stealing companies from the north cannot compete with our workers. Not even close.

Try living where you know close to half the population isn't even a legal resident. They scam and skip out and "no habla ingles" when it suits them. It is much like when I lived on "cool" South Beach in Miami along "Millionaire's Row." Yeah, right. Jewish old lady condos that look like a time warp from the 1960-70s. But it SELLS because they peddle it right.

Buffalo must spend money on a marketing campaign and actually try to get businesses to the city, period. That will only happen with a strong, forward-looking government that is not afraid to piss off the old people. Maybe the higher taxes won't scare them away if they get workers that have double the work ethic of the people in some "other" (read southern) states. I have seen it with my own eyes -- there IS a difference.

We have so much going for us -- but the car is broken down and we keep getting it gerry-rigged instead of repaired. Sooner or later, ya gotta spend the money. Why wait??? If you are sick of the Buffalo bashing...do something about it! Fix it and the place soars again because I KNOW -- if given an equal choice -- a good number of displaced Buffalonians move back.

Other cities get away with trashing our city because we let them. Instead of keeping our cool and answering them why they are wrong, many get incensed and spout off. That solves nothing but to enforce what they heard all along. I always say to the bashers "I understand why you believe what you hear -- you don't get it and you don't need to. I get it and I feel lucky for that. I know it sounds corny, but it makes them at least think that what they are repeating (because it's been repeated so many times--they just believe it without question) may not be accurate. When I tell them about the change of seasons and go into detail about the leaves changing and getting a treat when it snows on Christmas Eve and all the mom-and-pop ethnic restaurants, the Falls & Canada so close, architecture that is gorgeous (Delaware Ave) -- it does get them thinking.

Instead of getting mad -- get even -- make it what we KNOW it is! That is the challenge.

Sorry again for the length, but well...you know.

[BillyT92679]

Thanks, Pete. And Hurls...you stay out of this! :D

I have lived in a good number of places around the country and they all have definite upsides, but when you see these "premier" cities up close and personal, it's all fluff and lures. Texas has the best marketing system of any other state I have seen. "Everything's bigger in Texas"; "Don't Mess With Texas"; "America's Team" etc. Try living here. You see so much that makes you question what is so good about it? There's no water, summer is hell on earth, electric bills in June-October are more than some car payments, a good number of drivers have no insurance, it is dusty and dry and brown (dead) in the summer. Most of the state is one big, giant parking lot (it's so flat) -- but people keep buying into the hype it because "it's cool...everyone says it is." When I compare the places I've lived with Buffalo, there is no comparison -- EXCEPT the economy. Southern cities stealing companies from the north cannot compete with our workers. Not even close.

Try living where you know close to half the population isn't even a legal resident. They scam and skip out and "no habla ingles" when it suits them. It is much like when I lived on "cool" South Beach in Miami along "Millionaire's Row." Yeah, right. Jewish old lady condos that look like a time warp from the 1960-70s. But it SELLS because they peddle it right.

Buffalo must spend money on a marketing campaign and actually try to get businesses to the city, period. That will only happen with a strong, forward-looking government that is not afraid to piss off the old people. Maybe the higher taxes won't scare them away if they get workers that have double the work ethic of the people in some "other" (read southern) states. I have seen it with my own eyes -- there IS a difference.

We have so much going for us -- but the car is broken down and we keep getting it gerry-rigged instead of repaired. Sooner or later, ya gotta spend the money. Why wait??? If you are sick of the Buffalo bashing...do something about it! Fix it and the place soars again because I KNOW -- if given an equal choice -- a good number of displaced Buffalonians move back.

Other cities get away with trashing our city because we let them. Instead of keeping our cool and answering them why they are wrong, many get incensed and spout off. That solves nothing but to enforce what they heard all along. I always say to the bashers "I understand why you believe what you hear -- you don't get it and you don't need to. I get it and I feel lucky for that. I know it sounds corny, but it makes them at least think that what they are repeating (because it's been repeated so many times--they just believe it without question) may not be accurate. When I tell them about the change of seasons and go into detail about the leaves changing and getting a treat when it snows on Christmas Eve and all the mom-and-pop ethnic restaurants, the Falls & Canada so close, architecture that is gorgeous (Delaware Ave) -- it does get them thinking.

Instead of getting mad -- get even -- make it what we KNOW it is! That is the challenge.

Sorry again for the length, but well...you know.
What fascinates me, in the brief time I have lived here, is how despondent the denizons of the Buffalo area are. I lived in the Rochester metro area for the past nine years. Now Rochester isn't Raleigh Durham by any stretch, and yes, part of the reason for my point is because Rochester is, and has always been Smugtown with K-X-B&L, but that area has a real confidence, perhaps delusional, that this area lacks. That area has grown in population over the last thirty-five years, albeit very slightly. It's not a boomtown at all, but it seems to have its act together somewhat, and I see that. Even if Rochester has the same pitfulls that this area had, and it probably will with the death-knell of K-X- B&L seeming to ring every year, the mentality of that area makes me think people will rally round the flag and support a rebirth of Rochester. I don't see that mindset in Buffalo, and that scares me. I see a mindset of nihilism. Buffalo is doomed, so we should all just high-tail it out of here as soon as we possibly can. I know the economic lure of other parts of the country, so I certainly don't blame people for moving, but honestly, that m.o. is going to doom this area to continual population loss and a rendering into nonexistance.

[Billsman]

No wife and I'll be bartending!!!

[35Pete]

Rose sent SabreGirl

[sukie]

No wife and I'll be bartending!!!
That means I will find you. You cannot hide. i comeup once a year and you cannot hide. Unless you call in sick for 5 days. Hee Hee.

[njsue]

No wife and I'll be bartending!!!


Bartending you say, well then I will have a Raspberry Margarita "no salt" with a double shot of Don Julio! :D

[35Pete]

Bartending you say, well then I will have a Raspberry Margarita "no salt" with a double shot of Don Julio! :D
Hmmmm. Normally don't like sweet drinks but I LOVE margharitas!!! I'll have one too but with salt.

[HURLS]

Bartending you say, well then I will have a Raspberry Margarita "no salt" with a double shot of Don Julio! :D

He bartends at the Tailgate party, so you'll have to fork over the dought to get your butt up to a game. And no sweet drinks, unless poured out of a bowling ball straight down the throat. :D

[Billsman]

Been hanging out at the beach all week long, yeah I know, it sucks but hey, someone has to do it. Walleye Willies in Dunkirk is the place to go, been there every day since my arrival and became good friends with the owner, I rarely buy my own shots when I go there, again, it sucks.

The weather has been kick ass, warm, sunny, breezy and the women in WNY are HOT!!!

Went to the Ralph on Thursday, took a ride around the stadium, went to the gift shop too, they have some cool things there, I had to buy a new lid for my dome, old school Bills style.

Anyway, things have been going great, meeting up with old friends and meeting new ones, all is good!

Hope everyone gets a chance to make it back to WNY sometime soon, it's worth it.

Tonight we're going to the Woodbury wine festival. 1 1/2 hours of fireworks and the "vino" wine, will be flowing! I can feel a headache already.. lol

Take it easy all!!

[HURLS]

sorry I missed you last night. We gotta meet up.

[35Pete]

You lost me after saying Buffalo has the greatest Pizza. I'll take NYC or Chicago's anyday over a greasy slab from La Novas
Chicago, NY have good pizza (Lombardi's or Ray's Original in NY are great).

But LaNova is the BEST in the nation.

What other SINGLE pizza store in the US does 100K a week? That is $5,200,000 worth of pizza, wings, and calzones a year from a single store.

http://www.pmq.com/lanova_pizza_before.shtml

[The Philster]

No wife and I'll be bartending!!!
You mean you'll be helping bartend :D
BTW, will you be at Walleye Willie's on the 8th by any chance? I'm friends with the band that's playing there that night

[Billsman]

No, I'll be pouring as I always do when Im in town, have been for 8 years and I'll probably be at Willys, Ive been working on Jim Paynes, the owners, hvac equipment and stuff lately.

Hurls, answer your phone sometime! =)

[Meridius]

Im sure Hurls will answer his phone after he's done being passed out ;)

Hmmm, yanno, I saw a cell phone today dropped in a river...perhaps its Hurls'? ;D

[35Pete]

Been hanging out at the beach all week long, yeah I know, it sucks but hey, someone has to do it. Walleye Willies in Dunkirk is the place to go, been there every day since my arrival and became good friends with the owner, I rarely buy my own shots when I go there, again, it sucks.

The weather has been kick ass, warm, sunny, breezy and the women in WNY are HOT!!!

Went to the Ralph on Thursday, took a ride around the stadium, went to the gift shop too, they have some cool things there, I had to buy a new lid for my dome, old school Bills style.

Anyway, things have been going great, meeting up with old friends and meeting new ones, all is good!

Hope everyone gets a chance to make it back to WNY sometime soon, it's worth it.

Tonight we're going to the Woodbury wine festival. 1 1/2 hours of fireworks and the "vino" wine, will be flowing! I can feel a headache already.. lol

Take it easy all!!

Ohh you lucky bastard. You are making me home sick.

[HURLS]

Ohh you lucky bastard. You are making me home sick.

True. As much crap as this town gets(most deserved), the lake area is the finest summer place to be. Just cannot beat listening to live music, sipping cold beers, and seeing old friends.

BillsMan, my phone took a lil beating, and does not ring. Only way I know I'm getting a call is if it's near the computer or stereo, then it sets a buzz thru the speakers, lol. Plus, as Mer said, I passed out last night, I see you called around 9. I was fighting sleep while trying to watch UFC finale. Going to Walleye's today for Chicken BBQ at all? I believe it's at 2 every Sunday.

[The Philster]

No, I'll be pouring as I always do when Im in town, have been for 8 years and I'll probably be at Willys, Ive been working on Jim Paynes, the owners, hvac equipment and stuff lately.


Well, I bartend part of the time myself...least while everyone's setting up the grills...you and I'll be doing shots for sure, bro :D

As far as Willie's, do you like dance music? Check out the link in my sig...Studio 54 is the band that'll be playing there the 8th

[Billsman]

Phil, I thought you and helmet guy had the center isle all those years, at RWS that is. You finally decided to come to the dark side. lol

Yes, shots will be enjoyed, I wont bartend but for one game, or as needed, I have too much fun Bull shitting with everyone, plus John, I think thats his name, does a great job. I'll be goofing around with Jody, that one year he work the fake ass, that was hilarious!

I'll be at Willys all weekend, I remember what you look like, we'll tip a few!

Hurls, meet you on Friday? 5 cent wings and dollar beers!!!
Ill be sure to get off of work early to enjoy the festivities!

Pete, nut up and move back! WNY rocks!!

[Billsman]

Ohh you lucky bastard. You are making me home sick.

And its been getting better every day! Did I mention that the women of WNY are hot! Coming from Phoenix, I had high ummm expectations of women, I am more than happily pleased with what I am seeing! Girls on the beach, sunset bay beach club is off the hook with pretty women of all ages. Mmm mmm mmm. :FBH:

The weekend is upon is here in beautiful Chadwick Bay, that means bar hopping from one beach club to the next, God, I hate this life.. lol! :arizona:

[Billsman]

True. As much crap as this town gets(most deserved), the lake area is the finest summer place to be. Just cannot beat listening to live music, sipping cold beers, and seeing old friends.

BillsMan, my phone took a lil beating, and does not ring. Only way I know I'm getting a call is if it's near the computer or stereo, then it sets a buzz thru the speakers, lol. Plus, as Mer said, I passed out last night, I see you called around 9. I was fighting sleep while trying to watch UFC finale. Going to Walleye's today for Chicken BBQ at all? I believe it's at 2 every Sunday.

Mike, amen brother! The volley ball league is doing great, 19 teams, all playing on the water front, cant beat it. I'll look for you on Friday or Sunday, give me a yell.

[gilchristfan]

Phil, I thought you and helmet guy had the center isle all those years, at RWS that is. You finally decided to come to the dark side. lol

Yes, shots will be enjoyed, I wont bartend but for one game, or as needed, I have too much fun Bull shitting with everyone, plus John, I think thats his name, does a great job. I'll be goofing around with Jody, that one year he work the fake ass, that was hilarious!

I'll be at Willys all weekend, I remember what you look like, we'll tip a few!

Hurls, meet you on Friday? 5 cent wings and dollar beers!!!
Ill be sure to get off of work early to enjoy the festivities!

Pete, nut up and move back! WNY rocks!!

5 cent wings a $1.00 beers? Haven't seen that since I was in college. I'd be fat, drunk and stupid within an hour.

[Billsman]

Gil, it's great! They had all you can eat crab legs for $19.00 last night! Power hour here is $1.00 anything, shots, beer, mixed drinks etc..

Makes for an interesting night when people walk the pier out here. lol The wings are HUGE too!

I went to the anchor bar the other day, barely finished my plate they were so big. The beef on weck with fresh horseradish is killer too, not to mention te friday fish fry!

Ok, Im hungry...

[SabreGirl]

OK -- now I'm hungry too! Skipped lunch today to get out of work early and ended up having a last-minute project anyway. UGH.

I am SO JEALOUS! The only wings they have here are puny and very greasy and the only fish fry they have here is CATFISH which tastes horrible. And Beef on Weck? Forget it!

Enjoy, Billsman! Sounds like you never left...

[The Philster]

Phil, I thought you and helmet guy had the center isle all those years, at RWS that is. You finally decided to come to the dark side. lol

Yes, shots will be enjoyed, I wont bartend but for one game, or as needed, I have too much fun Bull shitting with everyone, plus John, I think thats his name, does a great job. I'll be goofing around with Jody, that one year he work the fake ass, that was hilarious!

I'll be at Willys all weekend, I remember what you look like, we'll tip a few!

Hurls, meet you on Friday? 5 cent wings and dollar beers!!!
Ill be sure to get off of work early to enjoy the festivities!

Pete, nut up and move back! WNY rocks!!
Ever since they decided to start enforcing that stupid 4-hour rule, Kenny and crew have worked on getting things set up as fast as possible. Unfortunately, with everyone setting up grills and everything, no one's able to man the bar. I'm still in my usual spots but after my crew starts arriving, I head over and man the bar til things are pretty much set up and John is ready to take over (or if he isn't, I'll put Nick or Brandon back there :D )
Jody works the fake ass most games now...lol. BTW, I've got a video of him doing a shot from a couple years ago on my site dedicated to Buffalo tailgating http://www.madbbs.com/users/philster/Pinto.htm It was all part of a college project.....gonna start putting some work into updating it for the season.
If you don't see me real easily at Willie's (never been there so I'm not sure how crowded it will be), just look for the guy with the camera getting hugs from the sexy singer from the band...she's a friend of mine who was with the Jills last season. I take pics for their website whenever I can catch a show.

5-cent wings? Damn...I was happy about 20-cent wings a few years back.

BTW, you check out that Wing City Grille yet? I haven't spent much time in the Fredonia-Dunkirk area in years..other than driving through on my way up to Buffalo or the Ralph.

[Billsman]

Phil, I sent you a pm about the bar, youll love it.

$3.50 cent Beef on wecks tonight!!

[buffalo_rocks]

I'm proud to be a life long Buffalonian. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Buffalonians enjoy a high overall quality of life, unless you're one of the chronic doomsayers who refuse to see the opportunities we have.

Buffalo is in transition, and on it's way back.

The complainers of today will be the complainers of tomorrow. They say the bus isn't coming, so they didn't bother waiting at the bus stop. The believers are already on the bus and, driven by visionaries, have embarked on a journey to Buffalo's destiny. A future that, in many ways, will surpass past glory.

People move in the direction they are looking. Focus on failures, and failure will be your destination. Buffalo is now focused on it's strengths, and our future will be strong!

[г]

The bus isn't coming (well not the #6, where you'll have to walk across Walden Avenue to get to the Galleria, Mrs. Whiggins)

[35Pete]

I'm proud to be a life long Buffalonian. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Buffalonians enjoy a high overall quality of life, unless you're one of the chronic doomsayers who refuse to see the opportunities we have.

Buffalo is in transition, and on it's way back.

The complainers of today will be the complainers of tomorrow. They say the bus isn't coming, so they didn't bother waiting at the bus stop. The believers are already on the bus and, driven by visionaries, have embarked on a journey to Buffalo's destiny. A future that, in many ways, will surpass past glory.

People move in the direction they are looking. Focus on failures, and failure will be your destination. Buffalo is now focused on it's strengths, and our future will be strong!

It's a dying city but denial is comforting.

[Questfor31]

The city may be dying, but as someone who left six years ago, there's no place like it. Buffalo women are smoking hot (what the hell is in our water besides those damned zebra muscles), the people are extremely friendly (try getting a jump start from someone in Detroit), the bar scene is hoppin' (I was in Tampa a couple weeks back and Ybor City had nothing on Chippewa St), and the weather (apart from all the bloody snow) is really not that bad. When you're gone you miss it. I'm actually traveling to every stadium in the NFL writing reviews for my website. Check it out at www.nflfootballstadiums.com.

[buffalo_rocks]

It's a dying city but denial is comforting.

You're wrong!
Get your head out of that Florida sand and do some research on what's going on and what's ahead for the great city of Buffalo.

[buffalo_rocks]

It's a dying city but denial is comforting.

Buffalo is experiencing a renaissance. The truth is comforting.

I'll share this from a friend:

I grew up in Buffalo and my parents moved us to Florida when I was 13 (1994). I thought rather negatively of Buffalo for a long time - the common stereotypes, many of which have already been mentioned. Why? Because that's what I was told about it. Recently, however, I've taken a renewed interest in my roots, reading about Buffalo and the great things happening there. I took a friend and flew to Buffalo a few weeks ago to visit for the first time in a long time and fell in love with the city. My friend, who initially ragged on Buffalo and had the common stereotypes about it, now respects it and thoroughly enjoyed his visit. There are pros and cons to everything and it all comes down to the lifestyle you prefer.

Florida (and most of the sun belt) is a big sprawling mess of strip malls and big box retailers, devoid of any culture. So much so that people don't even know what culture means here. There are no festivals or sense of community, it's simply a region full of people who aren't really FROM here. People from all parts of the globe who have no real ties to the area, and are only here for the nice weather and a job (and most of the jobs are low paying service industry jobs anyway). The city/county is poorly planned (if planned at all) and the quality of education is an absolute joke - we don't even have the proper facilities here, with kids learning in trailers and having no gyms or auditoriums. In short, the people here are stupid and classless, and living here leaves me with an incredibly empty feeling - like I'm a part of nothing except the problem. There's a reason this is traditionally where people come to retire/die - living here, you're already dead.

I'm looking into moving back to Buffalo but it's a huge decision. I will leave my parents and friends behind. But I want to be a part of something, part of a community with pride. I want to be able to root for my sports teams alongside everyone else, enjoy good food (God knows there isn't any to be found in Florida) and culture. Most of all, I can't bring myself to raise a family in Florida because this is a very sad place to grow up. I want my children to have the same great childhood I did - in Buffalo.



It's not just Buffalonians that love Buffalo!

"I love Buffalo. The people here are wonderful, genuine; they look you straight in the eye. It's a wonderful community you've got here, a real artistic sensibility. And wonderful musicians, as well."

- Ian Gillan, vocalist, Deep Purple

"Elmwood Village is famous for Queen Anne and Victorian Gothic homes, and its Elmwood Avenue bustles with night spots, cafes and shops. Browsers can find everything from vintage clothing at Don Apparel to an extensive fiction selection at Talking Leaves, an independent bookstore with attitude. The cozy neighborhood features international cuisine choices of Indian, Vietnamese, Japanese, Caribbean and Spanish food."

- Chicago Sun-Times

"Beyond/In Western New York is giving every indication of positioning itself to morph into the major art biennial north of the Carnegie International in Pittsburgh. Notions similar to this have floated around Toronto art circles for some time now...but Buffalo simply isn't waiting for Toronto to get its act together. This is funky old Buffalo sticking it to glitzy new Toronto. Last Saturday's gala opening at the Albright-Knox, the force behind 'Beyond,' saw a good number of gallery owners, agents and curators up from New York City looking for local talent."

- Toronto Star

"One late night visit to Chippewa Street will erase any fading dowager image from your mind forever. Young college students fill the city with energy and fun giving it a SoHo resonance."

- Currents (Cleveland, Ohio)

"Buffalo is an indigenously, intrinsically hip place."

- Richard Florida, author of The Rise of the Creative Class

"With its thriving medical-technology, aerospace and automotive-parts industries, sprawling State University of New York campus and burgeoning trade with Canada, Buffalo has cast off its old rust-belt image."

- The New York Times

"Buffalo -- yes, Buffalo -- is now walking proud as a hip center of arts and performances."

- The Washington Post

http://www.buffalowaterfront.com/index.htm

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/10/bashars_tower_1.php

http://www.bioinformatics.buffalo.edu/


http://higgins.house.gov/legislationissues.asp?ARTICLE3916=4110

[ricogarion]

Tell me all you want about the city dying but I for one have lived the experience of leaving and returning.I love WNY and the change of seasons,married a local girl and had four kids that we raised here.
I missed Buffalo and my sports teams my friends and especially my family.I have WNY coursing through my viens and I know there are prettier places (Having lived in Hawaii and family in Pierto Rico) but home is where the heart is.My heart yearns for Buffalo and western New York!!!

[BanditsRock11]

So Billsman moves back here, and has already moved outta here to Philly? Whats up with that Rick????

[B-loCrew]

Pete I have lived in Florida for 7 1/2 years now.Started out 2 yrs. in Orlando,followed by 3 yrs. in Coconut Creek,I have currently live in Boynton Beach where I been for 2 1/2 yrs. I do agree with you about the asthetics between both places. I personally am not impressed with endless strip malls with neon lights which dominate Florida. I love Buffalo's character and history. Bottomline is I will be getting married soon and starting a family and Buffalo is hands down the better place to raise kids. I will not miss the heat and humidity,endless rain,hurricanes,power outages,rude people,brutal traffic,lack of customer service,foreign country atmosphere,and high cost of living. But if you really hate change of seasons,and you are a beach,boating,and fishing guy you are in the right place. Personally I cant wait to go HOME!!!


Agreed, I have lived in FL for about 6 years now (Fort Lauderdale and Miami Beach) and absolutely hate the aesthetics of FL. The girls are hot but the cities are crap. Blocks and blocks of porno shops, publix, gay clubs, pawn shops, and crap, every block is the same, no history or pride. There is no way I am raising my children down here, I am working on transferring to the WNY area without a 40% pay decrease. I am an environmental engineer and it seems that my pay hardly changes with the tranfer, maybe I am just lucky, don't know what the other people do that say they will take a huge hit.
I know that NY taxes suck but the I don't think that outweighs the countless scumbags and shady people of FL.

Every time it rains the cable goes out, the traffic sucks, the people suck, summers are insane, you cannot find honest people, and even with a Phd I still can't afford to buy a nice house in a good area.
I want to move back, buy about 10acres of land, build my dream house, buy some toys, and live my life wothout people up my ass every day about something. hopefully it happens sooner than later.

I don't care if people say it is dying, I love it there and the way of life. I do not want to choose were I live by the most population growth. I do understand not moving back if you can't find a job but so far it has not been too much a problem for me, it may take a year or two but it will happen. You can easily get stuck in a rut down here bc the weather is great and there is plenty of bar slut eye candy but I am at a point where it is getting old and tired of the BS. You may get paid more at your job in FL but you get ass raped in many other things such as housing, insurance, and going out. Hopefully I will be joining you Billsman very soon, rock on brotha, way to have some balls.

[The Philster]

So Billsman moves back here, and has already moved outta here to Philly? Whats up with that Rick????
He what?!!??

[THATHURMANATOR]

Buffalo is experiencing a renaissance. The truth is comforting.

I'll share this from a friend:

I grew up in Buffalo and my parents moved us to Florida when I was 13 (1994). I thought rather negatively of Buffalo for a long time - the common stereotypes, many of which have already been mentioned. Why? Because that's what I was told about it. Recently, however, I've taken a renewed interest in my roots, reading about Buffalo and the great things happening there. I took a friend and flew to Buffalo a few weeks ago to visit for the first time in a long time and fell in love with the city. My friend, who initially ragged on Buffalo and had the common stereotypes about it, now respects it and thoroughly enjoyed his visit. There are pros and cons to everything and it all comes down to the lifestyle you prefer.

Florida (and most of the sun belt) is a big sprawling mess of strip malls and big box retailers, devoid of any culture. So much so that people don't even know what culture means here. There are no festivals or sense of community, it's simply a region full of people who aren't really FROM here. People from all parts of the globe who have no real ties to the area, and are only here for the nice weather and a job (and most of the jobs are low paying service industry jobs anyway). The city/county is poorly planned (if planned at all) and the quality of education is an absolute joke - we don't even have the proper facilities here, with kids learning in trailers and having no gyms or auditoriums. In short, the people here are stupid and classless, and living here leaves me with an incredibly empty feeling - like I'm a part of nothing except the problem. There's a reason this is traditionally where people come to retire/die - living here, you're already dead.

I'm looking into moving back to Buffalo but it's a huge decision. I will leave my parents and friends behind. But I want to be a part of something, part of a community with pride. I want to be able to root for my sports teams alongside everyone else, enjoy good food (God knows there isn't any to be found in Florida) and culture. Most of all, I can't bring myself to raise a family in Florida because this is a very sad place to grow up. I want my children to have the same great childhood I did - in Buffalo.



It's not just Buffalonians that love Buffalo!

"I love Buffalo. The people here are wonderful, genuine; they look you straight in the eye. It's a wonderful community you've got here, a real artistic sensibility. And wonderful musicians, as well."

- Ian Gillan, vocalist, Deep Purple

"Elmwood Village is famous for Queen Anne and Victorian Gothic homes, and its Elmwood Avenue bustles with night spots, cafes and shops. Browsers can find everything from vintage clothing at Don Apparel to an extensive fiction selection at Talking Leaves, an independent bookstore with attitude. The cozy neighborhood features international cuisine choices of Indian, Vietnamese, Japanese, Caribbean and Spanish food."

- Chicago Sun-Times

"Beyond/In Western New York is giving every indication of positioning itself to morph into the major art biennial north of the Carnegie International in Pittsburgh. Notions similar to this have floated around Toronto art circles for some time now...but Buffalo simply isn't waiting for Toronto to get its act together. This is funky old Buffalo sticking it to glitzy new Toronto. Last Saturday's gala opening at the Albright-Knox, the force behind 'Beyond,' saw a good number of gallery owners, agents and curators up from New York City looking for local talent."

- Toronto Star

"One late night visit to Chippewa Street will erase any fading dowager image from your mind forever. Young college students fill the city with energy and fun giving it a SoHo resonance."

- Currents (Cleveland, Ohio)

"Buffalo is an indigenously, intrinsically hip place."

- Richard Florida, author of The Rise of the Creative Class

"With its thriving medical-technology, aerospace and automotive-parts industries, sprawling State University of New York campus and burgeoning trade with Canada, Buffalo has cast off its old rust-belt image."

- The New York Times

"Buffalo -- yes, Buffalo -- is now walking proud as a hip center of arts and performances."

- The Washington Post

http://www.buffalowaterfront.com/index.htm

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/10/bashars_tower_1.php

http://www.bioinformatics.buffalo.edu/


http://higgins.house.gov/legislationissues.asp?ARTICLE3916=4110


This is so true!!!

Pete is one of those grumpy negative downers. He sickens me with his anti Buffalo posts!

[buffalo_rocks]

http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/6d1b32f72f.jpg (http://www.uploadfile.info)

[35Pete]

The city is dying economically, politically inept, and just plain ugly and boring.

I love the people but I am staying put. Last xmas really convinced me. I got depressed after 3 days there.

[dilbert]

The city is dying economically, politically inept, and just plain ugly and boring.

I love the people but I am staying put. Last xmas really convinced me. I got depressed after 3 days there.

It is crappy attitudes like that why the city is so slow to improve.

If you love the people, try to improve the city. Help vote out the dead wood or run yourself. Support local businesses.

And it is NOT boring if you look a little. Shea's is great. Albright-Knox is very nice. The Zoo is well respected. Chippewa has numerous bars. There are several local/small bars people love. There are sports year round (Bills, Sabres, Bisons, Bandits). Niagara Falls is close by and has a Casino. Chautauqua Lake and Ellicottville are within 90 minutes.

Do something about improving the area instead of crying about how bad it is and having a defeatist attitude.

[35Pete]

It is crappy attitudes like that why the city is so slow to improve.

If you love the people, try to improve the city. Help vote out the dead wood or run yourself. Support local businesses.

And it is NOT boring if you look a little. Shea's is great. Albright-Knox is very nice. The Zoo is well respected. Chippewa has numerous bars. There are several local/small bars people love. There are sports year round (Bills, Sabres, Bisons, Bandits). Niagara Falls is close by and has a Casino. Chautauqua Lake and Ellicottville are within 90 minutes.

Do something about improving the area instead of crying about how bad it is and having a defeatist attitude.


I quit 15 years ago. LOL

I voted with my feet. Like about 3-4% of the population seems to do also every year.

[35Pete]

It is crappy attitudes like that why the city is so slow to improve.

If you love the people, try to improve the city. Help vote out the dead wood or run yourself. Support local businesses.

And it is NOT boring if you look a little. Shea's is great. Albright-Knox is very nice. The Zoo is well respected. Chippewa has numerous bars. There are several local/small bars people love. There are sports year round (Bills, Sabres, Bisons, Bandits). Niagara Falls is close by and has a Casino. Chautauqua Lake and Ellicottville are within 90 minutes.

Do something about improving the area instead of crying about how bad it is and having a defeatist attitude.

You guys are doing nada, zip, to make that city better. I'll tell you. When I get off the plane the area looks like East Germany in the 70's, only less pleasant. Ohh, we call it "preservation". Well, that's good for you nostalgic types but will do nothing to lure people to the area. They just don't want to live where the entire region looks like crap.

Plenty to do? Willis complained to Penthouse that there is nothing to do in Buffalo. I've been in South Florida for almost 10 years and there is still tons of places that I've never been able to get to yet. You can go through your list in a month. And after the 4th time Niagara Falls is no longer a "wow".

You have a world class university yet your UB grads are leaving in droves. Why?

Thirty years later and you still can't develop the waterfront. THIRTY YEARS.

You can't get your unions under control so who would want to relocate or start a business there? The number one cost of business is labor. All the other supposed goodies that you could offer will not offset that.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off here and get a rise out of it. I just read this stuff and see the false reality that people have. Buffalo has been "coming back" for about 30 years now. Yet the economy worsens and the population shrinks. That doesn't jibe.

For a region in your situation your property taxes are obscene. Nice incentive to relocate, or stay for that matter. But hey, you have great schools. Yeah, I see that's a great incentive. Working real well.

It saddens me to see a great people self-destruct. I didn't abandon WNY. WNY abandoned me. I couldn't find a job and wasn't going to live in poverty as a sacrifice to "save the area".

Sorry.

[HURLS]

He what?!!??

Oh, he didn't tell you? Must be 'cuz it was none of your ****ing business! LMAO, I love using that line.


Yes, Rick has moved, so I hope you got in a goodbye kiss. :D

[dilbert]

You guys are doing nada, zip, to make that city better. I'll tell you. When I get off the plane the area looks like East Germany in the 70's, only less pleasant. Ohh, we call it "preservation". Well, that's good for you nostalgic types but will do nothing to lure people to the area. They just don't want to live where the entire region looks like crap.

I know this took me a while to respond. Quite frankly, you are full of crap.

First off, there are plenty of people in the area that do want progress. We want the bridge issue resolved. We want the steel plants gone. We want the Aud gone. We are happy the grain mills are gone.

Unfortunately, there is a strong and vocal minority that ties this crap up in court. Our politicians and judges are the biggest problem. As well as the Special interest groups empowered by long time leaders.

Plenty to do? Willis complained to Penthouse that there is nothing to do in Buffalo. I've been in South Florida for almost 10 years and there is still tons of places that I've never been able to get to yet. You can go through your list in a month. And after the 4th time Niagara Falls is no longer a "wow".

I give you a partial list and you make it a complete list. Nice.

The fact is, life is what you make of it. There are still places like Letchworth. Rochester. Toronto. These places are short drives.

You have a world class university yet your UB grads are leaving in droves. Why?
No doubt that needs to change. And UB is another positive for the area.

Thanks.

Thirty years later and you still can't develop the waterfront. THIRTY YEARS.
Again, a small minority holds it back, Leaders with balls will solve that,

You can't get your unions under control so who would want to relocate or start a business there? The number one cost of business is labor. All the other supposed goodies that you could offer will not offset that.
Duh. Move a private (or pubic) business and there is NO union. The existing unions do not stop new places from moving in. It might slow down growth of an existing business.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off here and get a rise out of it. I just read this stuff and see the false reality that people have. Buffalo has been "coming back" for about 30 years now. Yet the economy worsens and the population shrinks. That doesn't jibe.

For a region in your situation your property taxes are obscene. Nice incentive to relocate, or stay for that matter. But hey, you have great schools. Yeah, I see that's a great incentive. Working real well.

It saddens me to see a great people self-destruct. I didn't abandon WNY. WNY abandoned me. I couldn't find a job and wasn't going to live in poverty as a sacrifice to "save the area".

Sorry.

No you are not trying to piss people off, but you are talking about issues that you are not knowledgeable about. Reading the paper is one thing. Visiting every couple of years is another. Getting second hand stories from families is another. Living here is the true way to acquire knowledge.

And, BTW, what does a house cost in South Florida? Say a simple starter home. 2 bedrooms. Detached garage. Nothing fancy. I bet it was 2-3 X the cost of mine.

And no, you did abandon WNY. Dress it up and still quacks like a duck. Using an excuse like “I would have to live in poverty” either means you have a lack of education, incentive, or ability to try and improve the area in which you were born. Because there are opportunities here. One just has to look for them.

[sukie]

Not fair... (the last part) I was college educated in WNY but in my field there are zero jobs. ZERO. Now with 21 years of experience I could possibly land a position but would easily take a 20-30% paycut before the NYS tax issue is brought up.

[dilbert]

Not fair... (the last part) I was college educated in WNY but in my field there are zero jobs. ZERO. Now with 21 years of experience I could possibly land a position but would easily take a 20-30% paycut before the NYS tax issue is brought up.

And the cost of living, a home, etc. are all 20-30% less too.

[sukie]

Level of income and costs of living are intertwined. How about home equity escalation... Far greater in South Florida vs WNY.... what is the point?

[JLB]

How about the 2nd link in the sig click and enjoy the legend!!!!!!!!!