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35Pete
March 11th, 2006, 12:23:11 PM
Liberalism: Can it survive?

QUESTION FOR THE DAY: IF LIBERALISM isn't dead, then why are autopsies performed so regularly? In the latest examination of the much-probed cadaver, the New Republic 's editor-in-chief, Martin Peretz, recalls that John Kenneth Galbraith, in the early 1960s, pronounced American conservatism dead, citing as heavy evidence that conservatism was "bookless" or bereft of new ideas. Peretz writes, "It is liberalism that is now bookless and dying." Liberals, he says, are not inspired by any vision of the good society; the liberal agenda consists of wanting to spend more, while conservatives want to spend less. And the lack of new ideas and the absence of influential liberal thinkers, he says, are obvious.

Galbraith's comment contains some comfort for liberals: Conservatism revived with great intellectual ferment and a long burst of new ideas, and liberalism presumably can do the same. But there is no sign that this is happening. No real breakthrough in liberal thought and programs has occurred since the New Deal, giving liberalism its nostalgic, reactionary cast.

Worse, the cultural liberalism that emerged from the convulsions of the 1960s drove the liberal faith out of the mainstream. Its fundamental value is that society should have no fundamental values, except for a pervasive relativism that sees all values as equal. Part of the package was a militant secularism, pitched against religion, the chief source of fundamental values. Complaints about "imposing" values were also popular then, aimed at teachers and parents who worked to socialize children.

Modern liberalism, says Harvard political philosopher Michael Sandel, has emptied the national narrative of its civic resources, putting religion outside the public square and creating a value-neutral "procedural republic." One of the old heroes of liberalism, John Dewey, said in 1897 that the practical problem of modern society is the maintenance of the spiritual values of civilization. Not much room in liberal thought for that now, or for what another liberal icon, Walter Lippmann, called the "public philosophy." The failure to perceive the importance of community has seriously wounded liberalism and undermined its core principles. So has the strong tendency to convert moral and social questions into issues of individual rights, usually constructed and then massaged by judges to place them beyond the reach of majorities and the normal democratic process.

Bitter. Liberals have been slow to grasp the mainstream reaction to the no-values culture, chalking it up to Karl Rove, sinister fundamentalists, racism, or the stupidity of the American voter. Since November 2, the withering contempt of liberals for ordinary Americans has been astonishing. Voting for Bush gave "quite average Americans a chance to feel superior," said Andrew Hacker, a prominent liberal professor at Queens College. We are seeing the bitterness of elites who wish to lead, confronted by multitudes who do not wish to follow. Liberals might one day conclude that while most Americans value autonomy, they do not want a procedural republic in which patriotism, religion, socialization, and traditional values are politically declared out of bounds. Many Americans notice that liberalism nowadays lacks a vocabulary of right and wrong, declines to discuss virtue except in snickering terms, and seems increasingly hostile to prevailing moral sentiments.

For a stark vision of what cultural liberalism has come to, consider the breakdown of the universities, the fortresses of the 1960s cultural liberals and their progeny. Students are taught that objective judgments are impossible. All knowledge is compromised by issues of power and bias. Therefore, there is no way to come to judgment about anything, since judgment itself rests on quicksand. This principle, however, is suspended when the United States and western culture are discussed, because the West is essentially evil and guilty of endless crimes. Better to declare a vague transnational identity and admiration for the United Nations. The campuses indulge in heavy coercion and indoctrination. A sign of the times: The University of California's academic assembly eliminated the distinction between "interested" and "disinterested" scholarship by a 45-to-3 vote. The campuses are politicized, and they don't care who knows it. Harvard is all atwitter because its president ran afoul of local orthodoxy, suggesting, ever so tentatively, that sexual differences might be a factor in careers in science.

...more...

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/050307/7john.htm

35Pete
March 11th, 2006, 12:24:26 PM
Sounds like he is perfectly describing so much of the moronic, hubristic thinking prevalent in this forum, don't you think?

sukie
March 11th, 2006, 2:16:33 PM
Yup. Especially the passage that begins with the word "Bitter".
:unitedstates:

35Pete
March 11th, 2006, 2:23:59 PM
Yup. Especially the passage that begins with the word "Bitter".
:unitedstates:

Liberals on the Range "bitter"? No. Not at all. Just look at their intellectually awe inspiring policy platform. This is bitter? The platform can be summed up in two words:

"Bush Sucks".

shiva2999
March 11th, 2006, 10:29:44 PM
Not every Republican is an idiot. Just the overwhelming majority..

uppy
March 11th, 2006, 10:43:09 PM
shiva,what do you call republican type people in your country? (I know that
this is an open question and you could answer..a idiot,or some other one liner)

Whats the party called ?

shiva2999
March 11th, 2006, 10:48:22 PM
shiva,what do you call republican type people in your country? (I know that
this is an open question and you could answer..a idiot,or some other one liner)

Whats the party called ?

The Stephen Harpers.

billsrdue2002
March 14th, 2006, 1:24:40 AM
My take: the whole article is dribble. Pure and simple dribble.

If only the Republican Right Wing would spend a small tiny portion of their energy venting on OBL rather than "Democrats," "Liberals," and the "Left." I can't understand why Liberal Democratic Americans are perceived as the boogeymen by the Idiot Right Wing Media and their dittoheads? The real enemy of America is Gitmo Bush's buddy Osama Bin Laden (brother of Salem Bin Laden who bankrolled Pre-Gimo Bush when George was just a small shrub looking to cash in on his daddy's name and grandfather's lips on the House of Saud's rear end.). But that's asking too much. Republicofbinladens are a "faith based" political party that believes the Word of Bush is infallibush (like the Pope, but without the homosexual Roman Catholic priest scandal attached to the presidential papacy).

All of you religious right faith-based republicans raise your right hand (not your left [get it, he, he]) and repeat after me:

If my mom or grandma ever received a Social Security check, thank God for the Liberals!

If my mom or grandma ever received Medicare or Medicaid benefits, thank God for the Liberals!

If me, my dad, or my grandpa ever received unemployment benefits, thank
God for the Liberals!

If anyone of my family ever had to use food stamps, public assistence, or any of the above, thank God for the Liberals!

If I didn't belong to the only church, temple, mosque, or other type of religious group in town, thank God for the Liberals!

If you're an atheist, don't thank God for the Liberals. Thank our Founding Fathers for being Liberals and giving all of us Americans the freedoms that all of us enjoy and most of us cherish but that some right wing idiots of today would deny because we may be perceived by them as different from them.

Liberalism isn't dead. It is alive and well in the hearts and minds of everyone in the World who sees the good in America. It's Gitmo Bush, Gitmo Dick, and the REEKpubicKLAN dominated Congress that's swirling around the drain. If it looks like a lame duck, quacks like a lame duck, and limps like a lame duck, it's a lame duck REEKpubicKLAN presidency, Congress, and country. Get ready for the pendelum swinging back to the left! Don't let it hit you in the rear end on your way out Liberal Arts and Social Sciences Rule!

35Pete
March 14th, 2006, 6:46:14 AM
Liberalism isn't dead. It is alive and well in the hearts and minds of everyone in the World who sees the good in America. It's Gitmo Bush, Gitmo Dick, and the REEKpubicKLAN dominated Congress that's swirling around the drain. If it looks like a lame duck, quacks like a lame duck, and limps like a lame duck, it's a lame duck REEKpubicKLAN presidency, Congress, and country. Get ready for the pendelum swinging back to the left! Don't let it hit you in the rear end on your way out Liberal Arts and Social Sciences Rule!

OMG!!!! :rofl: I nearly pissed my pants when I read this dribble!! :rofl:

sukie
March 14th, 2006, 7:41:32 AM
Pete, it's even funnier if you read it without pause for punctuation and in one single breath.

rob on the job
March 14th, 2006, 11:17:02 AM
Liberals might as well give up the ghost.

Nobody wants the New Deal or Fair Deal or the Great Society anymore.

Nobody gets goosepimples re-watching Mario Cuomo's nominating speech at the 1984 Democratic National Convention.

Not even liberals want to be called "liberals."

It is a corpse with a stench so foul that it deserves immolation rather than a proper burial.

sukie
March 14th, 2006, 11:19:23 AM
Can't cremate... Global Warming issue.

nehemiah
March 14th, 2006, 11:20:47 AM
it's "drivel" - not "dribble"

nehemiah
March 14th, 2006, 11:23:40 AM
it never ceases to amaze the amount of time/effort conservatives will put in trying to convince liberals that "liberalism" is dead.

considering this column has been written over and over again for the past 25 years (you mean it ain't dead yet?) - i'm gonna have to assume that liberalism is indeed alive and well.

rob on the job
March 14th, 2006, 11:23:57 AM
it's "drivel" - not "dribble"

You're right -- that post by BillsRDue was drivel.

Dribble is what rolls down the cheek of national media types at the sight of America being humiliated.

rob on the job
March 14th, 2006, 11:26:35 AM
it never ceases to amaze the amount of time/effort conservatives will put in trying to convince liberals that "liberalism" is dead.

considering this column has been written over and over again for the past 25 years (you mean it ain't dead yet?) - i'm gonna have to assume that liberalism is indeed alive and well.

You're gonna hate this analogy, Nehe, but liberalism right now shows even less life than Terri Schiavo did.

nehemiah
March 14th, 2006, 11:26:54 AM
You're right -- that post by BillsRDue was drivel.

Dribble is what rolls down the cheek of national media types at the sight of America being humiliated.you're crazy. BillsRDue has had some killer posts recently.

good stuff, BRD! :rockon:

i don't understand your second sentence, though, roberto. :dunno:

nehemiah
March 14th, 2006, 11:28:02 AM
You're gonna hate this analogy, Nehe, but liberalism right now shows even less life than Terri Schiavo did.posted like the member of a political party who realizes that his kind be on da way out.

but that's kewl. maybe you'll convince some more republicans that liberalism is dead.

rob on the job
March 14th, 2006, 11:33:10 AM
...i don't understand your second sentence, though, roberto. :dunno:

Believe me -- Pete, JW, Upstart, Lucid and a bunch of others know what it means.

nehemiah
March 14th, 2006, 11:35:26 AM
Believe me -- Pete, JW, Upstart, Lucid and a bunch of others know what it means.some degree of drunkenness required? i'll read it after work, then.

sukie
March 14th, 2006, 11:40:43 AM
Then you'll be in my word Nehe. Drink the spiked kewl aid.

rob on the job
March 14th, 2006, 11:43:08 AM
some degree of drunkenness required? i'll read it after work, then.

Good one, Brother!

Libelous, but good.

35Pete
March 14th, 2006, 1:13:45 PM
Believe me -- Pete, JW, Upstart, Lucid and a bunch of others know what it means.
Being enlightened, I understand it perfectly. :D

nehemiah
March 14th, 2006, 1:15:22 PM
Being drunk, I understand it perfectly. :D:poke:

anEinherjer
March 14th, 2006, 1:32:17 PM
Drunk, enlightened... what are we drinking, absinthe??? :D

sukie
March 14th, 2006, 1:35:48 PM
Okay... what's all this drunk/drink talk? I'm working and now I'm having dancing beer visions again you bastards.

35Pete
March 14th, 2006, 1:43:52 PM
God...It's 1:45 in the afternoon and I could really go for a bracer right now.

sukie
March 14th, 2006, 1:46:54 PM
WTF is that? A nooner with a chick wearing a knee brace?

Lucidvizion
March 14th, 2006, 2:16:28 PM
WTF is that? A nooner with a chick wearing a knee brace?

Not on the knee, on the teeth.

sukie
March 14th, 2006, 3:08:36 PM
Thanks

ticatfan3
March 14th, 2006, 3:29:21 PM
The Stephen Harpers.That is funny. So hows the liberal leadership race going shiv. Lets see we have party girl/ former tory belinda and we have the gay/former tory scott brison, (ooops sorry he is gone now that they found out he leaked the info on the income trust) and we also have former NDP leader (I bankrupted ontario) bob rae. Is there any libs that wants to run the liberal party. LOL