Vernon to rams at 12?

[CaBills1]

mel kiper has vernon davis falling to the rams at 12 citing that the previous 11 teams do not have a need for a te. we dont have a te expect for a guy who hasnt played a down in the nfl who is also coming off serious knee surgery.....

[imissandrereed]

mel kiper has vernon davis falling to the rams at 12 citing that the previous 11 teams do not have a need for a te. we dont have a te expect for a guy who hasnt played a down in the nfl who is also coming off serious knee surgery.....


Exactly, HASN'T PLAYED A DOWN YET, you write him off yet you have never seen him play. Sheesh, we can spend our pick on a position we have absolutly nothing in, rather then a pick that looks really good but we could have something good already. Plus you don't know what Marv is going to do once FAency starts.

[CaBills1]

put all your faith in a 3rd round pick a year ago who is coming off knee surgery. that makes no sense. what happened last year when we gave jp the job without earning it. i havent seen anything from everett so until i see something from him, my pick is still vernon.

[Griffs77]

Let's draft a TE @ #8 in the first round to build the future of our team around.

[CaBills1]

we have our future in jp, evans and willis. the draft is a big biggest crap shoot. who knows who will be a good pro or not. sure we need oline and dline help. but i can't see passing up on vernon.

[imissandrereed]

put all your faith in a 3rd round pick a year ago who is coming off knee surgery. that makes no sense. what happened last year when we gave jp the job without earning it. i havent seen anything from everett so until i see something from him, my pick is still vernon.

ALl our hopes???? are you a moron? Why would you put all your hopes on a TE, TE will not win us games. I'm sorry to say it, but we have larger problems. How bout getting us a Line that can block for Willis and JP or Kelly, How bout we get a pass Rush, something that we havn't had since Smith and Hanson were around. How bout we attend to our REAL problems. you acting like Vernon Davis is the solution to all our problems. I assure you that he isn't. And a TE like Everett who NEITHER YOU oR I have seen play yet could be as useful as Davis and we can get a pick that we can actually use to better our lines.

[BillsCAfan]

mel kiper has vernon davis falling to the rams at 12 citing that the previous 11 teams do not have a need for a te. we dont have a te expect for a guy who hasnt played a down in the nfl who is also coming off serious knee surgery.....

So how many downs has Vernon Davis played in the NFL??

I hate the no playing time argument.

Everett is just like a rookie. Imagine us taking a TE in teh 3rd round this year. Just because we're not getting a new TE this year, doesn't mean he can't step up or won't.

We have other BIGGER needs.

Taking a TE after having no DTs, OT, OGs, SS is just stupid.

[imissandrereed]

So how many downs has Vernon Davis played in the NFL??

I hate the no playing time argument.

Everett is just like a rookie. Imagine us taking a TE in teh 3rd round this year. Just because we're not getting a new TE this year, doesn't mean he can't step up or won't.

We have other BIGGER needs.

Taking a TE after having no DTs, OT, OGs, SS is just stupid.


TWo WOrds A Men = AMEN!!!

[CaBills1]

who else is going to fall to us then? if adams doesnt fit our system then why draft ngata? who in here is hesitant about picking a Tackle after mike williams? so i'm a moron? screw you man. i'm just saying my opinion.

[imissandrereed]

And I'm saying mine, its MORNOIC to draft a TE, when there are so many more glaring needs

[Merk]

Exactly, HASN'T PLAYED A DOWN YET, you write him off yet you have never seen him play. Sheesh, we can spend our pick on a position we have absolutly nothing in, rather then a pick that looks really good but we could have something good already. Plus you don't know what Marv is going to do once FAency starts.



You ever see him play in college at Miami?



Tell me what you saw and liked about him that you would think this guy can be a starting and productive TE at the next level in the NFL

[CaBills1]

so who do you think the bills draft?

[BillsCAfan]

who else is going to fall to us then? if adams doesnt fit our system then why draft ngata? who in here is hesitant about picking a Tackle after mike williams? so i'm a moron? screw you man. i'm just saying my opinion.

You just called yourself a moron, cuz I sure didn't say it. I just think its stupid to draft a TE. That is MY opinion, as your opinion is different.

Yeah, Mike Williams didn't work out, but so what. Browns drafted Winslow and that hasn't worked out yet either.

I don't want Ngata anyway. It were up to me, I'd trade down and take Justice and pick up an extra 3rd or 2nd. That will much better suit out needs, rather than take a TE, aftering cutting Mike Williams, Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy with Ron Edwards on the open market, and having pieces of crap Bennie Anderson, and have an aging Villarial on our team.

[CaBills1]

if the bills had a shockey or gonzo te it will make this offense so much better. i'll be happy with whoever the bills pick. if the bills lose moulds, what happens to our passing game?

[imissandrereed]

if the bills had a shockey or gonzo te it will make this offense so much better. i'll be happy with whoever the bills pick. if the bills lose moulds, what happens to our passing game?


I understand where your coming from, however, what happened to our passing game last year with Moulds? we didn't have one, because our line sucked last year. Losman had no time, he got early and often. If we lose moulds we will pick up a cheaper option, may not be as good but if you have time the passing game will work.

We havn't even hit FA yet so lets jus see what Marv Will do

[imissandrereed]

You ever see him play in college at Miami?



Tell me what you saw and liked about him that you would think this guy can be a starting and productive TE at the next level in the NFL


I never saw him play at MIami, but what has he shown you in the NFL that says he can't. We're playing the what if game which is pretty dumb because we have nothing to go off of. Obviously someone saw something in him.

[PatQ]

Only problem with trading down is <It takes two to tango> and that is not easy to do... although it's possible...

Imho, when you have a top 10 pick you go BPA... if the BPA happens to be a position of need... the better it gets... if not it's fine by me...

Also, with a top 10 pick, if you get the chance to take a blue-chipper, can't-miss, freakish-type, once-in-a-decade player... you do it!

What I'm seeing with this draft is after D'Brick/Williams, the next players at these "need positions" aren't worth the #8 pick... so that's why I think you go BPA no matter the position except maybe QB...

If you can find a partner to trade down... fine... but like history has shown us... it's easier said than done!

[BillsCAfan]

if the bills had a shockey or gonzo te it will make this offense so much better. i'll be happy with whoever the bills pick. if the bills lose moulds, what happens to our passing game?

I've wanted Givens, if they lose Moulds.

1) I've not refuting the fact that a stud TE could help. A stud TE could help any team, not just ours.

2) Stud TE's value goes significantly down when your QB is on his ass before he can pass to your Stud TE. You build from inside out. We don't have an inside, so whatever you build on the outside becomes less valuable. Its like building a a first class roof with flimsy structure.

3) We also need to play defense. Without defense, you might as well just give up in the AFC East. And as of now, 4 starting positions on defense is in shambles. This NEEDS to be addressed.

4) We also have a player in Everett we have yet to see play. He could be a bust, but what if he is not. Why draft a TE in the 3rd then draft another TE in the 1st the year after without knowing who/what you really have?? Draft picks are valuable, and if you draft Davis, you're basically throwing away a 3rd round pick, which in today's NFL is a no-no, especially after one year and no seeing what the player could really do.

[PatQ]

As for OL/DL, FA & 2nd+3rd rounds can take care of it...

Mangold/Spencer/Joseph - 2nd
Some interesting DTs in the 3rd (with 2 close picks)

[pabstman]

if the bills had a shockey or gonzo te it will make this offense so much better. i'll be happy with whoever the bills pick. if the bills lose moulds, what happens to our passing game?

A TE like Gonzo would make the offense a lot better. VD could make us an elite offense just like the Chiefs. How many playoffs win do the Chiefs and Giants have with the TE you mentioned?
Defense, Defense, Defense! We need to get back to playing lights out D.

[BillsCAfan]

As for OL/DL, FA & 2nd+3rd rounds can take care of it...

Mangold/Spencer/Joseph - 2nd
Some interesting DTs in the 3rd (with 2 close picks)

So why not a 3rd rounder to take care of our TE needs??

[TRIPLE P]

Here are some fact for all of you to consider:

Everett is a project at TE..... he barely played a Miami

There are no OL worth taking @ 8 besides Ferguson

It doesn't matter who we take @ 8 as long as they help the team....

[Merk]

I never saw him play at MIami, but what has he shown you in the NFL that says he can't. We're playing the what if game which is pretty dumb because we have nothing to go off of. Obviously someone saw something in him.


I saw enough him at Miami to see that its a long shot at him being anything in the NFL. He only had 23 catches and 0 TD's on a team that is known to feature its TE's in there offense. If thats what he produces in college being the full time starter its hard for me to believe that he can be a productive starter at the next level coming off a major knee injury


I dont know what TD saw in this kid and I thought he was a real reach in the third round

[Merk]

Everett is a project at TE




I agree




he barely played a Miami


He was the full time starter in 2004 and bassically did nothing

[BillsCAfan]

Here are some fact for all of you to consider:

Everett is a project at TE..... he barely played a Miami

There are no OL worth taking @ 8 besides Ferguson

It doesn't matter who we take @ 8 as long as they help the team....

Vernon Davis is a great player, but drafting him wouldn't be the BEST for us. Sure, it could help.

Now imagine this....Davis is on the board when we pick.

We are going to get offers from teams in the 10-20 range wanting to get this guy.

If someone offers us their 1st and 2nd, which I think they will to grab Davis, there is absolutely no question in my mind that we have to pull the trigger.

We have so many needs, that young players through teh draft is the only way we can build.

And with a 10-20 pick, we can easily get Justice or Bunkley, hell if we can get Ngata in teh 15 range, I'd do that too.

Instead of drafting Davis, I think we will be Much Much better off using him as collateral to accumulate picks to fill our swiss cheese team.

[TRIPLE P]

Vernon Davis is a great player, but drafting him wouldn't be the BEST for us. Sure, it could help.

Now imagine this....Davis is on the board when we pick.

We are going to get offers from teams in the 10-20 range wanting to get this guy.

If someone offers us their 1st and 2nd, which I think they will to grab Davis, there is absolutely no question in my mind that we have to pull the trigger.

We have so many needs, that young players through teh draft is the only way we can build.

And with a 10-20 pick, we can easily get Justice or Bunkley, hell if we can get Ngata in teh 15 range, I'd do that too.

Instead of drafting Davis, I think we will be Much Much better off using him as collateral to accumulate picks to build our swiss cheese team.

My point is, with how this team is structured right now (and I think we're on the same page), is that its hard to go wrong, save for a player going "Mike Williams" on us

Now, the list of things i'm cool with:

-Taking Huff

-Taking Davis

-Taking Ferguson

-Taking Hawk

-Taking Bunkley

-Taking Williams

-Trading down


really, it doesn't matter as long as we're improving our team.....

[gilchristfan]

A TE like Gonzo would make the offense a lot better. VD could make us an elite offense just like the Chiefs. How many playoffs win do the Chiefs and Giants have with the TE you mentioned?
Defense, Defense, Defense! We need to get back to playing lights out D.

Of course, you realize, that argument can be turned around to say, "how many playoff wins did our 2nd ranked defense get us in 2003 and 2004?".

[hello]

[QUOTE=CaBills1] if adams doesnt fit our system then why draft ngata? QUOTE]

Maybe because Adams refused to play during games last season. Can you say cancer.

[BillsCAfan]

really, it doesn't matter as long as we're improving our team.....

Well I agree that at this point, we can draft a bum and still better this team.

I'm just looking at ways to maximize the improvement, and IMO, the more players we can draft in the top 100, the better off we will be.

Right now we have

One 1st
One 2nd
Three 3rd (comp included)
______
5 picks

If we can grab an extra 3rd or 2nd, and get 6 players in the top 100, we easily get a SS, OT, OG, DT, DT, DE.....this all just an example, but to me....a DT and OG or any combo of two position outweighs taking a Davis. However, if we can draft Fergusson, Hawk, Williams, then we should do that.

[Griffs77]

IF VD is there at 8 and the other guys are gone (like williams/huff) we need to take him, assuming he is a character guy. (Never seen him play, never heard about his off-field mentality).

But if VD is a ML kind-of-character-guy, then by all means draft the ****er and built an offense around him for years to come.

And as for a Miami TE doing nothing- I think JS is a freak, but he is WAY more hype than production so far in his NFL career. Maybe KE will be the opposite. (I said maybe!!!!!!!)

[admarc]

The Bills #1 need is to improve the offensive line, especially the interior. Followed closely by DT. Those are not their only needs and their 1st round pick is not the only means to fill those needs. The Bills desperately need to add playmakers on both sides of the ball. Vernon Davis, regardless of the position he plays, seems to be exactly that.

Additionally, a great TE can help the run game and pass protection as much as any one lineman can. He provides an outlet for the QB when he is under pressure, freezes LBs and keeps them from blitzing and can extend the o-line and provide extra lanes to rush through.

The Bills need to take the best player available with their first pick that fills a need and fits their system. That could be a DE, TE, DT, OT, SS. They do not need to take the best player available that fills only their top need (OLine, DT). They will have at least 7 other draft picks and free agency to address all of their needs. They need to find a difference maker at #8.

[sdolan11]

People keep saying that you can't build an offense around a TE . . .but that's a dumb. Let me ask you this . . if you could draft Antonio Gates at #8 this year . . would you? Of course you would . . this guy can be just that.

[TRIPLE P]

Well I agree that at this point, we can draft a bum and still better this team.

I'm just looking at ways to maximize the improvement, and IMO, the more players we can draft in the top 100, the better off we will be.

Right now we have

One 1st
One 2nd
Three 3rd (comp included)
______
5 picks

If we can grab an extra 3rd or 2nd, and get 6 players in the top 100, we easily get a SS, OT, OG, DT, DT, DE.....this all just an example, but to me....a DT and OG or any combo of two position outweighs taking a Davis. However, if we can draft Fergusson, Hawk, Williams, then we should do that.


Are we for sure getting a 3rd comp?


Listen, I agree with you on all fronts.....

I still believe that out #1, if we can't trade down, needs to be a guy that can become a playmaker......

DT and OL are HUGE needs for this team, but IMO we should fill those needs, or at least some of them, in FA....strictly because you know what a FA brings....

I also don't see the value at 8 in a DT or OL (besides D'Brick and Williams, and i doubt we can get them)

If we took a davis, or Huff at 8, aside from a WR (I;'d rather go FA with this as well) the rest of the draft can be OL and DT

[BillsCAfan]

People keep saying that you can't build an offense around a TE . . .but that's a dumb. Let me ask you this . . if you could draft Antonio Gates at #8 this year . . would you? Of course you would . . this guy can be just that.

In hindsight, yes, I would draft many elite players that are already NFL right now at 8.

Are Winslow and Shockey like Gates?

Davis COULD be like Gates.

Just like Mike Williams COULD have been like Pace, Jones and Ogden.

The draft is a crapshoot. There are no locks.

And no, IMO, an offense can't be built around a TE, not even in SD. SD's offense is built around LT.

You build the line first. If you have no line, your WRs/TEs values drop.

[admarc]

We are not guaranteed a 3rd round comp pick, in fact it's probably a long shot.

There's a thread in the War Room on the comp formula (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?t=85632) and if true the Bills may only get a 7th. BTW, this thread should be in the war room (http://www.buffalorange.com/forumdisplay.php?f=106). This topic has been debated in depth in the Vernon Davis (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?t=84316)thread.

[imissandrereed]

In hindsight, yes, I would draft many elite players that are already NFL right now at 8.

Are Winslow and Shockey like Gates?

Davis COULD be like Gates.

Just like Mike Williams COULD have been like Pace, Jones and Ogden.

The draft is a crapshoot. There are no locks.

And no, IMO, an offense can't be built around a TE, not even in SD. SD's offense is built around LT.

You build the line first. If you have no line, your WRs/TEs values drop.


I said this before and I'll say it again Amen!

[CaBills1]

5:00

TD drafted everett, not levy. Levy may not see what donahoe saw in everett. I agree that if you have a top 10 pick you have to use it on a stud. hell, if everett turns out ok, we could have two te's catching or blocking for the bills O.

[Merk]

We are not guaranteed a 3rd round comp pick, in fact it's probably a long shot.

There's a thread in the War Room on the comp formula (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?t=85632) and if true the Bills may only get a 7th. BTW, this thread should be in the war room. This topic has been debated in depth in the Vernon Davis (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?t=84316)thread.



I agree the extra 3rd is a long shot



I think we have a better shot at a 5th


I think if we only get a 7th we are being screwed

[BillsCAfan]

5:00

TD drafted everett, not levy. Levy may not see what donahoe saw in everett. I agree that if you have a top 10 pick you have to use it on a stud. hell, if everett turns out ok, we could have two te's catching or blocking for the bills O.

Regardless of who drafted Everett, he was nonetheless a 3rd round pick only a year ago. TE is not a position you'd want to spent consecutive first day picks on. Levy is smart enough to evaluate his roster and he knows the value of draft picks, and having cut so many players, I don't think he's looking at Davis as much as people thing he is or should.

[sdolan11]

In hindsight, yes, I would draft many elite players that are already NFL right now at 8.

Are Winslow and Shockey like Gates?

Davis COULD be like Gates.

Just like Mike Williams COULD have been like Pace, Jones and Ogden.

The draft is a crapshoot. There are no locks.

And no, IMO, an offense can't be built around a TE, not even in SD. SD's offense is built around LT.

You build the line first. If you have no line, your WRs/TEs values drop.

I respect your opinion, and completely understand your rationale. I'm personally an FSU alumni, and have seen this guy in action ever since he was a freshman. This guy ate us up every time we played(I think he was hurt one year), so I've got some experience in seeing him play. Mike Williams was NEVER in the same class as Pace, Jones, or Ogden . . he was a road-grader type coming out of college whereas those guys were SPECTACULAR pass blockers - big difference. I understand your point none-the-less. Personally, I'd love to see us get Williams or D'brick, but if there not there . . .AND . . .we can't get good compensation pick-wise for trading down. My opinion - Vernon's a no-brainer. The guy could easily be a 1,000 yard receiver within the next 3 years.

[sdolan11]

Also, I mis-spoke when I said "build around" . . . we don't need to do that. We have McGahee/Evans to build around(sorry, can't add Losman to that yet).

[BillsCAfan]

I respect your opinion, and completely understand your rationale. I'm personally an FSU alumni, and have seen this guy in action ever since he was a freshman. This guy ate us up every time we played(I think he was hurt one year), so I've got some experience in seeing him play. Mike Williams was NEVER in the same class as Pace, Jones, or Ogden . . he was a road-grader type coming out of college whereas those guys were SPECTACULAR pass blockers - big difference. I understand your point none-the-less. Personally, I'd love to see us get Williams or D'brick, but if there not there . . .AND . . .we can't get good compensation pick-wise for trading down. My opinion - Vernon's a no-brainer. The guy could easily be a 1,000 yard receiver within the next 3 years.

I'm not refuting Davis' talent or potential.

Whenever you have a top 5/top 10 pick, you're deciding between players that all have tremendous talent and potential.

I just don't think drafting Davis is in our best interest. There are better options IMO.

I wouldn't be upset if we got Davis. He has too much talent for me to be disagree with it, but its not a preference of mine, especially since I'm pretty sure we can find suitors to trader down and pick up extra draft choices.

[Telecom]

I live in the Northern VA area and get the Maryland sports programs on my local stations and news broadcasts. I also understand the need we have for both OL and DL talent. However , if the draft plays out as some of the so called experts are saying the value we will see at #8 does not justify selecting a DL or OL prospect. My opinion (however small it may be) is that VD is going to be one of the blue chip players in this draft. He played on some very frustrating MD teams with basically no QB and never caused any locker room problems and was always a pain in the rear to any defense that they played against. This particular draft is heavily stocked with OL and DL prospects that are being touted in the second and 3rd rounds. No need to panic if we go with VD as he will definately bring value to the pick, irregardless of other team needs. If someone wants to offer us a later pick and other picks to move into #8 then I'm all for it. This wil allow us to address the OL and DL without reaching to do so.

[BillsCAfan]

I live in the Northern VA area and get the Maryland sports programs on my local stations and news broadcasts. I also understand the need we have for both OL and DL talent. However , if the draft plays out as some of the so called experts are saying the value we will see at #8 does not justify selecting a DL or OL prospect. My opinion (however small it may be) is that VD is going to be one of the blue chip players in this draft. He played on some very frustrating MD teams with basically no QB and never caused any locker room problems and was always a pain in the rear to any defense that they played against. This particular draft is heavily stocked with OL and DL prospects that are being touted in the second and 3rd rounds. No need to panic if we go with VD as he will definately bring value to the pick, irregardless of other team needs. If someone wants to offer us a later pick and other picks to move into #8 then I'm all for it. This wil allow us to address the OL and DL without reaching to do so.

But Also, if we are in need of a TE, and you guys feel the need to draft one, this years draft is pretty deep at that position as well.

Fasano
Lewis
Byrd
Pope

It all depends who is there at 8, and what offers we get to trade down.

[PatQ]

So why not a 3rd rounder to take care of our TE needs??

If there is another blue-chipper, can't-miss, freakish-type, once-in-a-decade player at #8?
(assuming of course that D'Brick & Williams are gone...)

No problemo! But I just don't see one beside V. Davis (if available, of course)...

M. Huff - Maybe special / maybe not...
Ngata - Does he really fit in our new defense? Is he a one-of-a-kind type at DT?

[BillsCAfan]

If there is another blue-chipper, can't-miss, freakish-type, once-in-a-decade player at #8?

No problemo! But I just don't see one beside V. Davis (if available, of course)...

M. Huff - Maybe special / maybe not...
Ngata - Does he really fit in our new defense? Is he a one-of-a-kind type at DT?

I don't know if even read any of my posts. I'm a big proponent of trading down and getting more picks.

I also question you comprehension of the draft when you use works/phrases like "once-in-decade" "can't-miss".

There are no LOCKS in the draft.

I can't tell you how many times I hear the same thing from fans/scouts every year about this one guy, and more often then not, teams realize their picks weren't lock at all.

Davis has great potential, and as I've said, I wouldn't be angry if we draft him. I just don't think it would be in our absolute best interest.

[Merk]

I'm not refuting Davis' talent or potential.

Whenever you have a top 5/top 10 pick, you're deciding between players that all have tremendous talent and potential.

I just don't think drafting Davis is in our best interest. There are better options IMO.

I wouldn't be upset if we got Davis. He has too much talent for me to be disagree with it, but its not a preference of mine, especially since I'm pretty sure we can find suitors to trader down and pick up extra draft choices.



Would you take Hawk at 8?

[BillsCAfan]

Would you take Hawk at 8?

I would definitely take Hawk at 8.

Because I think an LB is more important to a team than a TE. Just my opinion.

I also take into consideration Spikes is coming off a major surgury (I know Everett is too, but Spikes is more importatn), Fletcher is getting old and only has one year left, and Posey only being adequate.

Drafting Hawk into a corp that needs 3 players, all of which are ?s at this point would take precedence over draft a TE.

Right or wrong, that the way I look at it.

There is a reason why TEs have the lowest franchise/transition numbers other than kickers/punters/fullbacks. Not that Davis wouldn't make an impact, just an observation across the board of how teams look at the position and how big of a factor it plays in their offenses. I've seen teams win SBs without great TEs, but not without great defense and/or offensive lines.

[CBennett]

I think it depends of what you mean by falling....if you mean that he is just going to be picked #12 thats different IMO than someone "falling" to #12...I mean if we get Freguson id say he has "fallen" to us cause in almost ALL the mocks he is going as soon as 4 and normaly around 4-8..... Reason I say this is I don't dee Davis going at #12 over all as him actually "falling" as in absolutely no Mock ive seen(around 25) have I EVER seen him going SOONER than 11th....and as late as 26th(the Bears I think mabey not???) so to act like he should have been drafted sooner(than 12th) is crazy cause he is WORTH about the 12-18 pick NO HIGHER!

[CBennett]

Would you take Hawk at 8?

Depends on who else is left on the board. would I take him over a TE ANY DAY OF THE WEEK..would I take him over Ferguson or Mario Williams :) NO.

[Merk]

I would definitely take Hawk at 8.

Because I think an LB is more important to a team than a TE. Just my opinion.

I also take into consideration Spikes is coming off a major surgury (I know Everett is too, but Spikes is more importatn), Fletcher is getting old and only has one year left, and Posey only being adequate.

Drafting Hawk into a corp that needs 3 players, all of which are ?s at this point would take precedence over draft a TE.

Right or wrong, that the way I look at it.

There is a reason why TEs have the lowest franchise/transition numbers other than kickers/punters/fullbacks. Not that Davis wouldn't make an impact, just an observation across the board of how teams look at the position and how big of a factor it plays in their offenses. I've seen teams win SBs without great TEs, but not without great defense or offensive lines.


The point of the question wasnt to decide if you would draft Hawk over Davis its to ask if you would pick the best player on the board over a bigger need such as D-line.


You have said throughout this thread and others that you wouldnt pick Davis b/c of the dire needs on the D and O Line and that TE wasnt such a need as either of those 2 on this current team. Yet you would ignore those needs to pick a player at a posistion that not many consider even a need on this team at this point.


Heres your list of our needs stated earlier in this thread

We have other BIGGER needs.

Taking a TE after having no DTs, OT, OGs, SS is just stupid


I also take into consideration Spikes is coming off a major surgury (I know Everett is too, but Spikes is more importatn), Fletcher is getting old and only has one year left, and Posey only being adequate


You take this into consideration(by the way you left out Crowell) but wont take into consideration that none of the TE's on the roster are at a starters level. We can say we have an unknown in Everett. But lets review what we do we know about Everett. We know he did nothing in college in an offense that features TE's, so in essense he a long shot at the next level to be productive. We know he was picked mainly on his athletic ability but now this is in question b/c of a knee injury and IMO was a major reach in the third round by TD. If I have to pick the bigger need on this team between TE and LB I'm saying TE


The point is you would take Hawk b/c hes the best player on the board and has a chance to have a bigger impact than the DL on the board at the same time. This is the way I look at Davis. This also isnt to say that either of us wouldnt want at least the next 4 or 5 picks to be completely dedicated to the O and D lines

[angneli]

If we can trade down to between 10-15 and get extra picks great. If not you have to take the best player available. Fergusen, Williams, Hawk, Huff and Davis are going to be on our radar screen. 3 of them will be gone by # 8. I would take Davis and use Free agency to build our lines. At least then we're dealing with veterans who aren't going to be suprised by the things that happen at an NFL camp. I don't think its realistic to expect a rookie lineman (offensive or defensive) to start right away and have an impact. It is far more likely for a skill guy to come in right away and have success.

[BillsCAfan]

DT, OG, OT are our biggest needs as of now. But I've also said in other threads that I think we should cut Fletcher and thing future. Whether a hole this year or next, its going to be a hole in the very near future, and I think the LB/DT/Oline/SS should take precedence over a TE.

Thats all I was saying.

Personally I would let Fletcher go, try and draft Schelgal, and put Crowell in Posey's spot.

Then I would trade to sign Bernard and Givens, and let Moulds go.

Then draft a Bing and Wright.

There are so many players out there that I believe would benefit us more than Davis would, especially if we can parlay Davis into two top 100 picks.

But I would definitely take Williams, Hawk, Fergusson with the 8th pick if we had a chance, but I don't think we will.

Any other player, i would rather trade down and accumlate picks, especially in the first 3 rounds. Lots of great players in the areas we need in this draft. And the more young players we bring in this year the better, better than any other year.

Next season is going to be a rebuilding year for us, and the more young players we have to go through their learnving curve next year the better.

If we don't get any offers to trade down, then we have to pick Davis or Huff.

[CaBills1]

We have a greater need for a TE rather than a LB IMO. atleast at LB we have fletcher, spikes, posey and crowell. I know they are getting old, spikes is coming off surgery, crowell stepped it up but still has a lot more to prove, and posey may be cut; that is still better than tim uehus and kevin everett. I seriously hope kevin everett can be our TE so we dont have to draft vernon because our lines are horrible. before the combine i wanted d'brick but after watching vernon at the combine i was amazed.

[CaBills1]

also, IMO what we need to do is give jp some more weapons. to me, giving him vernon as a weapon is just the same as giving him a lineman like d'brick or winston justice. you never know with the draft.

[BillsCAfan]

LBs are much more important than TEs

Spikes - Injury ?s
Posey - Below Average
Fletcher - won't be here after next year
Crowell - good depth

Do you want to fill those need when we have the hole, or think ahead?

If your'e telling me that you'd rather have a Stud TE over Stud LB, you'd pick the TE, well.......I'd start praying.

Thinks or recent SB winners and tell me TEs are more important than LBs.

TB, NE, Pitt, Ravens

[sdolan11]

LBs are much more important than TEs

Spikes - Injury ?s
Posey - Below Average
Fletcher - won't be here after next year
Crowell - good depth

Do you want to fill those need when we have the hole, or think ahead?

If your'e telling me that you'd rather have a Stud TE over Stud LB, you'd pick the TE, well.......I'd start praying.

Thinks or recent SB winners and tell me TEs are more important than LBs.

TB, NE, Pitt, Ravens

I agree with you here too . . . we are going to need linebackers in the near future . . if Hawk's there, I'd be drooling.

Vernon Davis seems to be the hot topic . .because realistically, he's the one "playmaker" type that will still be left when we're picking.

You also posted earlier that we should trade down and you think we'd have decent offers. If that's the case, we should absolutely consider picking up some more picks, even if they're high picks in next years draft. I absolutely wouldn't mind trading down, and nabbing Bunkley later in the first, or possibly Eric Winston.

[Flan]

I do believe that Marv has a plan at TE. Otherwise he would not have released our best TE in Campbell.

Everett was healthy at the end of last year and practicing. I am sure the Bills now alot about his abilities by now. Marv also knows Davis will be available at 8.

I will sit back on this one and see what the Bills do.

[dwightdrane]

ALl our hopes???? are you a moron? Why would you put all your hopes on a TE, TE will not win us games. I'm sorry to say it, but we have larger problems. How bout getting us a Line that can block for Willis and JP or Kelly, How bout we get a pass Rush, something that we havn't had since Smith and Hanson were around. How bout we attend to our REAL problems. you acting like Vernon Davis is the solution to all our problems. I assure you that he isn't. And a TE like Everett who NEITHER YOU oR I have seen play yet could be as useful as Davis and we can get a pick that we can actually use to better our lines.

i don't know if te is the right pick or not. but i do know that antonio gates just being on the field wins games for the chargers. sure they have other good players, but if you watch the chargers, the game revolves around gates. he is a mismatch for everyone. i am not saying davis is the next gates. gates came out of nowhere, but what i am saying is if you think you have a mismatch diamond you have to seriously consider him.

in order to win in the nfl you need to create mismatches. just ask st.louis, new england and pittsburgh. the teams that have won recent super bowls.

[SweetLee8 3PlayaWha?]

Vernon Davis is the only can't miss prospect in this draft.

[CaBills1]

you can eliminate aj hawk, the 49ers are pickin him up. we have so many holed in this team. and you may not think it Billscafan, but we DO have a whole to fill at TE. from the wholes we need to fill, TE/DT/OL/LB... the best available player at #8 will probably be vernon.

[BillsCAfan]

you can eliminate aj hawk, the 49ers are pickin him up. we have so many holed in this team. and you may not think it Billscafan, but we DO have a whole to fill at TE. from the wholes we need to fill, TE/DT/OL/LB... the best available player at #8 will probably be vernon.

One, we already have a prospect in Everett we have yet to see play. You can't throw away 3rd round picks after one year....

Two, TE's are not as important ans other positions.

I said this before and I'll saying it agian.

Look at the past few SB winners......do they have dominates lineman or TEs??

We need TE's like NE. Not superstars, but adequate pass catchers who can contribute.

I would take any two players in the top 100, one being in the early mid first round, over Davis.

If we do happen to draft Davis, I'll be fine with it, but I don't think its our best option.

[pabstman]

Of course, you realize, that argument can be turned around to say, "how many playoff wins did our 2nd ranked defense get us in 2003 and 2004?".

Great point. It's just when you look at a team like Pittsburgh or even the Pats. The one constant those two teams always have is above avg D. Your O dosn't have to be great. When you play good D you just seem to be in more games, and win on a more consistant basis.
When our D was playing good or O was doing nothing, all we need was 17 pts a game and they couldn't even do that. So I do realize your O has to be good, but I still belive you'll win on a more consistant basis with D.
You don't need to spend a #1 pick on a TE, thats all I think.

[B-loCrew]

Here are some fact for all of you to consider:

Everett is a project at TE..... he barely played a Miami

There are no OL worth taking @ 8 besides Ferguson

It doesn't matter who we take @ 8 as long as they help the team....



Its funny how everyone thinks the brick is the only OL worth taking with our pick. I will bet that there is going to be more than one starting OL that comes out of this draft, especially on a line as bad as ours.

[B-loCrew]

Oh and in case you don't remember any games from last year our DL is not very good either, but if the #1 DT projected by the "experts" is not there then maybe we should take the TE.

Are these the same people who wanted to take a kicker with our first pick last year?

[bail]

And I'm saying mine, its MORNOIC to draft a TE, when there are so many more glaring needs


Did you see this V. Davis workout he is a beast and would help any team.

Let's pick the best talent at the #8 spot when it comes up and I think it will be davis. Stop picking need it usually leads to crap. Just my opinion.

We can get what we need in FA, for the lines.

[gmbuffalo]

you don't want to just draft based on need, you want to take the best player available and from everything i hear, the two athlete freaks in this draft are mario williams and davis. you hear nothing but great things about both of these guys, and if one of them is sitting there at 8, you have to strongly consider taking them.