Dukie V. Finally Comes To His Senses

[Orange Nation]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/columnist/vitale/2006-01-18-debate_x.htm

[nyjunc]

For this year b/c the ACC is down but I have been very unimpressed w/ the new BE. yeah UConn and 'Nova are big time teams but ouside of them it's a bunch of medicore teams. Louisville is not good, Syracuse is not good, Pitt plays nobody to build their non-conf record. WVU is good but they have the look of a quick Tourney exit come March. Don't worry though the ACC will be back next year and things will be back to normal.

[Orange Nation]

There are a legit 10 teams chasing NCAA bids right now in the Big East.

Pitt (15-0, 4-0, 4 RPI)
UConn (15-1, 3-1, 15 RPI)
Nova (12-2, 3-1, 6 RPI)

Pitt and UConn are locks. Nova will be there with a nice seed, they still have some winning to do but their resume is super thus far....they're basically a lock too.

WV (12-3, 5-0, 49 RPI)
SU (15-3, 3-1, 21 RPI)

Both should be there unless the wheels fall off. WV's conference schedule gets a lot harder in February. SU's is just tough in general.  WV will get a lot of credit for playing some good OOC competition.  SU will not.
 
Louisville (13-4, 1-3, 75 RPI)
Cincinnati (12-4, 2-2, 18 RPI)
Marquette (12-5, 3-2, 29 RPI)
Georgetown (11-4, 3-2, 63 RPI)
Rutgers (11-5, 2-2, 65 RPI) 

Louisville is struggling right now and might not be the team everyone thought they would be. However assuming Dean comes back healthy and they lose no one else significant, I can't see them not being there in the end. They really need to be careful in their next 4 games though, they can't afford to go worse than 2-2. Their schedule in general is one of the toughest in the league. RPI is not in their favor right now and that may hurt them as the season goes on.  Looking at the road ahead, initially I'd say the odds are against them, but I think this group will improve dramatically and that Pitino will find a way to get them in.  I think they can kiss a top 4 finish goodbye though, they're going to end up in the 5-8 range.

Cincinnati was in the same boat with SU/WV until Kirkland went down. They're gonna limp to the finish IMO, however .500 the rest of the way should be enough for a bid.  A win at Xavier tonight would go a long way.

Marquette wasn't expected to be here but they've been pretty impressive. A 6-5 finish should get them in as well, but that isn't a gimme. Both Marquette and Cincinnati should have RPI working in their favor when March rolls around.

Georgetown is in the same boat as last year, they look like they're headed for around a 9-7 finish or so. I think they're the most unpredictable of the bunch right now. They're just on the outside looking in at the moment IMO, kinda like they were at the end of last season. RPI will probably be mediocre at best.
 
Rutgers is in the conversation, they still have 6 games with PC, Seton Hall, John's and USF, that alone will give them a shot to finish at or above .500 in league play, though it will also hurt their RPI. I think they'll need to pull an upset or two of someone NCAA-bound at some point though to get in.

I gotta disagree with you on Syracuse, 2 of their losses came to #2 Florida and #3 UConn. They blew out cincinatti by 20+ at cincy and beat notre dame in a hostile environment.

the ACC will be back next year and things will be back to normal.

don't make me fall over in my chair...hahaha

[nyjunc]

Pitt si NOT a legit top 10 team, their non-conf sched was a joke(as usual which is why they always flop in Mrahc b/c they build infalted records against bad teams) where they only played 1 ranked team(#24 Wisconsin and beat them iona close game at home) and their other ranked win was a conf game against vastly overrated Louisville who also lost to St. John's.

The 2 teams that are big time teams are 'Nova and UConn, each will bea 1 or 2 seed. The 3rd best team is WVU but they have early exit written all over them. They will be a hot pick based on waht they did last year but they will not surprise people this year and wll not survive the 1st weekend.

Syracuse isn't very good, Louisville is only still ranked b/c they were ranked way too high to begin the year, Georgetown stinks, Marquette isn't good, Rutgers is Rutgers, Cincy stinks.

Marquette wasn't expected to be here but they've been pretty impressive.

Outside of upsetting a struggling UConn team(at the time, they have gotten it back though) who have they beat? their next biggest win was probably Valpo and they lost to Nebraska and Winthrop.

Georgetown is in the same boat as last year, they look like they're headed for around a 9-7 finish or so.

i hope they win this weekend but they haven't beaten a ranked team yet and have lost to vanderbilt.

Rutgers is in the conversation

They did a good job to take 'Nova to OT but other than that what have they done? Their big win is over depaul? They have lost to Buffalo and Charlotte. You aren't getting int the Tourney when your best win is Depaul.

I gotta disagree with you on Syracuse, 2 of their losses came to #2 Florida and #3 UConn

They'll be a Tourney team but will not get a high seed. Their biggest win was a close win over davidson at home and they also lost to Bucknell at home. I know Bucknell is a good mid-major but not good enough to win in the Dome. Their non-conf sched wasa complete joke as usual.

don't make me fall over in my chair...hahaha


Are you trying to tell me the ACC hasn't been the best conf in most years? We are down this year thanks to losing so many guys early but next year we have a few of the nation's top classes coming in including UNC's #1 class. The ACC will be back, if you want to debate ACC vs. BE just look up the FF teams and Nat'l Champs from the past 20-25 years or so and if that's not fair then use the last 10 years.







The Big east has a few good teams at the top but the rest is mediocrity and the reason they'll get so mnay teams in is b/c they have so many teams.

[Jayhawk]

this must be killing dookie v

[Orange Nation]

The ACC will be back, if you want to debate ACC vs. BE just look up the FF teams and Nat'l Champs from the past 20-25 years or so and if that's not fair then use the last 10 years.

1/2 of those are duke's. btw, unc is looking really good [/sarcasm].

virginia, and miami AT HOME....hmmmm

[jaymitch84]

Pittsburgh is 15-0. There is a reason there are only 3 undefeated teams left, it is damn hard to stay that way no matter what your schedule is. Pitt is for real.

2 of Syracuse's 3 losses are to undefeated/#2 Florida and UConn. Not to mention, despite seperate 12-0 and 19-0 UConn runs, Syracuse still only lost the game by 8 points.

Marquette...beat UConn.

And of course, UConn and Nova are definitely both top 5 teams.

A week or 2 ago, there were 7 teams in each poll ranked in the top 25 in the Big East...the 7th team different in each poll. So if you look at both combined 8 teams in the conference were ranked. Writers and Coaches get the jobs of ranking for a reason.

And of course, even ACC-lover Dick appreciates the Big East, so you know something must be up.

The Big East is for real.

[JerseyBillsFan]

You guys gonna take this clown seriously. A Georgetown team that in his words "stinks" just bumped off the pride and joy of the ACC.

[Orange Nation]

haha I was just gonna post that.

a "mediocre" team just bumped off the ACC's best.

Duke is #1 in the ACC, G'town is #7 in the big east.

my bad the big east isnt just better, its wayyyy better...no question, and it will continue to be.

[CoachC.]

Can't wait for the excuses from the ACC apologists after this one.

And GTown just took a MAJOR step in their quest for a tiurney bid. That was huge for them.

[Dolphinssuck]

GO BLUEDEVILS! To days loss really did nothing to hurt Duke even if Florida had won. Florida has a very weak schedule and Pitt who I like alittle was bound to lose as well. Duke will bounce back and Id hate to play them next.

[nyjunc]

haha I was just gonna post that.

a "mediocre" team just bumped off the ACC's best.

Duke is #1 in the ACC, G'town is #7 in the big east.

my bad the big east isnt just better, its wayyyy better...no question, and it will continue to be.

Anything can happen in 1 game, GU is still mediocre but they have a great win. UConn won the title in '04 and got crushed by tech and lost to UNC in the reg season. It happens sometimes.

[nyjunc]

1/2 of those are duke's. btw, unc is looking really good [/sarcasm].

virginia, and miami AT HOME....hmmmm

First off when the Champs lose their top 7 players and 4 early it's going to hurt, to ven have been ranked this year is a great accomplishment. No champ has EVER lost their 5 starters and the Heels lost their top 7. Now onto the ACC-BE argument.

Since 1980:

ACC: 26
# of FF teams: 6- UNC, Duke, UVa, MD, NC State, Ga Tech
# of FF appearances by those 6 schools: 26
# of years w/ more than 1 ACC team in FF: 5
# of schools w/ more than 1 FF: 5(all except State)
# of Championships: 8
# of diff schools to win Championships: 4
Longest streak of consecutive FFs: 8
Longest drought: 1 year

Big East:
# of FF teams: Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Syracuse, Providence, Seton Hall, Connecticut
# of FF appearances by those 6 schools: 12
# of years w/ more than 1 ACC team in FF: 2
# of schools w/ more than 1 FF: 3(GU, UConn, SU)
# of Championships: 5
# of diff schools to win Championships: 3
Longest streak of consecutive FFs: 2
longest drought: 7 years

By the way, # of appearances since '80:

Duke- 10
UNC- 9
Georgetown- 3
Syracuse- 3
Virginia- 2
Ga Tech- 2
Maryland- 2
UConn- 2
NC State- 1
St. John's- 1
Villanova- 1
Providence- 1
Seton Hall- 1

It's not even close.

[CoachC.]

First off when the Champs lose their top 7 players and 4 early it's going to hurt, to ven have been ranked this year is a great accomplishment. No champ has EVER lost their 5 starters and the Heels lost their top 7. Now onto the ACC-BE argument.

Since 1980:

ACC: 26
# of FF teams: 6- UNC, Duke, UVa, MD, NC State, Ga Tech
# of FF appearances by those 6 schools: 26
# of years w/ more than 1 ACC team in FF: 5
# of schools w/ more than 1 FF: 5(all except State)
# of Championships: 8
# of diff schools to win Championships: 4
Longest streak of consecutive FFs: 8
Longest drought: 1 year

Big East:
# of FF teams: Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Syracuse, Providence, Seton Hall, Connecticut
# of FF appearances by those 6 schools: 12
# of years w/ more than 1 ACC team in FF: 2
# of schools w/ more than 1 FF: 3(GU, UConn, SU)
# of Championships: 5
# of diff schools to win Championships: 3
Longest streak of consecutive FFs: 2
longest drought: 7 years

By the way, # of appearances since '80:

Duke- 10
UNC- 9
Georgetown- 3
Syracuse- 3
Virginia- 2
Ga Tech- 2
Maryland- 2
UConn- 2
NC State- 1
St. John's- 1
Villanova- 1
Providence- 1
Seton Hall- 1

It's not even close.

You're deflecting this argument back to something it is not. This thread has nothing to do with which conference has been better over the last whatever years, or all-time. It's about which conference is better THIS year.

Last night on the ESPN studio show, they had a spirited debate about this very topic. The only difference was that the two conferences they were debating between were the Big East and the Big Ten. The ACC wasn't even in the discussion. Now, whether they're right or wrong on their choice doesn't matter. The point is that everyone seems to see that the ACC isn't the powerhouse of the nation this year, except many ACC fans, like you.

Even as a Big East fan, I have no problem admitting that the ACC has been the better conference since the late 80's/early '90's overall. But, why can't you overcome your biasness on the issue of this season?? It doesn't take anything away from Duke's, UNC's, or Maryland's accomplishments over the past fifteen years (or other teams in the ACC)- or the most recent years.

[nyjunc]

You're deflecting this argument back to something it is not. This thread has nothing to do with which conference has been better over the last whatever years, or all-time. It's about which conference is better THIS year.

Last night on the ESPN studio show, they had a spirited debate about this very topic. The only difference was that the two conferences they were debating between were the Big East and the Big Ten. The ACC wasn't even in the discussion. Now, whether they're right or wrong on their choice doesn't matter. The point is that everyone seems to see that the ACC isn't the powerhouse of the nation this year, except many ACC fans, like you.

Even as a Big East fan, I have no problem admitting that the ACC has been the better conference since the late 80's/early '90's overall. But, why can't you overcome your biasness on the issue of this season?? It doesn't take anything away from Duke's, UNC's, or Maryland's accomplishments over the past fifteen years (or other teams in the ACC)- or the most recent years.


I said the BE was better than the ACC this year, the ACC is obviously very down, but another psoter laughed when I said in most years the ACC is best and that's where the talk of the past came in. I definitely agree the ACC is not the best and that the BE is better- I'd be an idiot not to agree w/ that.

[Orange Nation]

going back to "syracuse is not good" b/c obv. i am a huge syracuse fan

Syracuse is No. 21 in RPI and one of seven Big East teams in the Top 30 RPI.

The Orange is 2-4 against Top 50 teams. That means Syracuse has no "bad'' losses. Villanova, UConn, and Pitt are top 10, Florida is No. 19 and Bucknell is No. 38.

so losing to those teams is nothing to be ashamed of.

[nyjunc]

going back to "syracuse is not good" b/c obv. i am a huge syracuse fan

Syracuse is No. 21 in RPI and one of seven Big East teams in the Top 30 RPI.

The Orange is 2-4 against Top 50 teams. That means Syracuse has no "bad'' losses. Villanova, UConn, and Pitt are top 10, Florida is No. 19 and Bucknell is No. 38.

so losing to those teams is nothing to be ashamed of.

Losing to Bucknell at home is sonething to be ashamed of. They can get better and most likely will but as of now they aren't a very good team.

[willis2113]

i do agree with nyjunc the ACC is down this year and might be down next year but they will come back.. as long as players like mcroberts hansbrough decide to stay..i admit the BE is def better than the ACC as a whole this year..it will be intersting to see who wins it all..then we will beable to settle who has the better conference..

as for duke losing to a mediocre GU. but i mean if you shoot 66% from the field your bound to win no matter who your playing... anything can happen on any given day...

[Orange Nation]

Losing to Bucknell at home is sonething to be ashamed of. They can get better and most likely will but as of now they aren't a very good team.

teh same bucknell who beat pitt @ HOME, where pitt is 58-5 and beat Kansas in the 1st or round.

su can only get better, and right now i think they may be slightly better than unc, devendorf will be a player for years to come.

[nyjunc]

teh same bucknell who beat pitt @ HOME, where pitt is 58-5 and beat Kansas in the 1st or round.

su can only get better, and right now i think they may be slightly better than unc, devendorf will be a player for years to come.

Who is Pitt? That is a team that plays creampuff non-conf scheds every year then gets overrated heading into the Tourney and leaves the first weekend. Bucknell is a very good mid-major team BUT you cannot lose to them at home.

I'd say UNC and SU are close but based upon what both teams have done I'd give the slight edge to the Heels. Your non-conf sched is almost as bad as Pitt's, the only ranked(weren't ranked at the time but are now) team you played was Florida and you lost.

[Orange Nation]

unc lost at home to miami and to clemson and virginia, horrible teams

oh yeah I can't forget they got slaughtered by USC..haha

[Orange Nation]

i wouldnt call unc's non conf. sched tough

Gardner-Webb
Cleveland State
UC Santa Barbara
Saint Louis
Santa Clara
USC
Asheville
Davidson
Kentucky
Illinois (Florida > Illinois)
UK (Texas Tech = Kentucky)

[Orange Nation]

now if we compare conferences:

ACC

1. Duke
2. N.C. State
3. Virginia
4. Maryland
5. North Carolina
6. Florida State
7. Clemson
8. Miami
9. Boston College
10. Georgia Tech
11. Wake Forest
12. Virginia Tech

Big East

1. West Virginia
2. Pittsburgh
3. Villanova
4. Connecticut
5. Georgetown
6. Marquette
7. Cincinnati
8. St. John's
9. Syracuse
10. Rutgers
11. Seton Hall
12. Louisville
13. Providence
14. Notre Dame
15. DePaul
16. South Florida

Top 12 teams make BET.

Comparing Conferences

1. Duke > West Virginia
2. NC State = Pitt
3. Virginia < Villanova
4. Maryland < UConn
5. UNC = G'Town
6. Florida State = Marquette
7. Clemson < Cincy
8. Miami < St. John's
9. BC = SU
10. Georgia Tech = Rutgers
11. Wake Forest > Seton Hall
12. V. Tech < Louisville

Judging by that logic it would be 5-2 in Big East's favor.

[willis2113]

orange i agree with you on most of your comparisons in the BE ACC race..i think that clemson and cincy might be = as well as miami and st johns...i mean their close IMO.. but i do agree that the BE is better than the ACC this year..even tho i am an ACC fan..but good analysis

[Orange Nation]

Seton Hall spanks #14 NC State

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) -- Donald Copeland had 22 points, Kelly Whitney added 17 and Seton Hall stunned North Carolina State (No. 14 ESPN/USA Today, No. 15 AP) 83-65 on Wednesday night, handing the Wolfpack their first home loss of the season.

Jamar Nutter and Paul Gause each finished with 12 points for the Pirates (11-6), who dominated throughout in nearly every phase of the game. No advantage was as glaring as in rebounds -- at halftime, they led 40-27 on the scoreboard and had more offensive rebounds (10) than NC State totaled on both ends (8).

Tony Bethel had 15 points for NC State (15-4), while Ilian Evtimov and Cedric Simmons each scored 12.

Seton Hall started the second half with a 14-3 run that was helped by a technical foul on Wolfpack coach Herb Sendek. He was incensed when referee Michael Stephens wouldn't call a palming violation on Copeland, and he also yelled at one of Stephens' cohorts, Karl Hess.

Hess quickly called the technical on Sendek, and coincidentally, Copeland converted both free throws. He then added a 3-pointer on the ensuing possession to give the Pirates a 54-30 lead.

Later, when NC State's Cameron Bennerman missed an uncontested layup and Evtimov simply threw the ball away a couple of trips later, Sendek could only smile ruefully. He already had tried getting his players going with a fiery lecture during one timeout in the first half, when his screams could be heard over the din of the crowd.

Nothing seemed to work, particularly with the Pirates' surprising efficiency on offense. They had lost three of their previous four games, and the lone victory required a stirring comeback against South Florida. Seton Hall trailed that one by 10 points with three minutes left before eventually winning in overtime.

There would be no such rally for the Wolfpack, despite some desperate strategy down the stretch. With about 5½ minutes remaining, they relied almost exclusively on 3s and began fouling nearly every time the Pirates had the ball.

It only delayed the inevitable. NC State only could get within 14 points a couple times, and Seton Hall was left with perhaps their defining effort so far this season. The result sure looked a lot better than its previous trip to the state to face an Atlantic Coast Conference opponent -- in the NIT Season Tip-Off, the Pirates lost 93-40 to Duke.

They jumped to leads of 15-4, 22-6 and 26-9 before N.C. State came to life a bit, but the final possession of the half embodied the Wolfpack's struggles. Seton Hall had a lineup of four guards and patiently worked for the final shot before Nutter missed.

But Brian Laing, a 6-foot-5 swingman, got inside for the rebound and put it back in moments before the buzzer to give the Pirates a 40-27 lead.

[nyjunc]

unc lost at home to miami and to clemson and virginia, horrible teams

oh yeah I can't forget they got slaughtered by USC..haha

We didn't lose to Clemson and Miami is a pretty good team./ We also didn't get slaughtered by SC, it was a close game they pulled away in the last few mins.

i wouldnt call unc's non conf. sched tough

It's a little softer than uual but still alot mroe difficult than SU's. Fla is NOT better than Illinois and they are crashing back to reality lately after the hot start w/o beating a ranked team.

At kentucky(they were #10 and you expect Uk at UK to be difficult, it looks easier now but when scheduled it was tough)
vs. Illinois
vs. Arizona(again it looks easier now but at the time it was schduled it was not supposed to be)
Davidson is as good as Bucknell yet we crushed them.

SU's sched is always a joke, they rarely leave the Carrier Dome before January and when they do it's usual the few hour drive to MSG.

[nyjunc]

now if we compare conferences:

ACC

1. Duke
2. N.C. State
3. Virginia
4. Maryland
5. North Carolina
6. Florida State
7. Clemson
8. Miami
9. Boston College
10. Georgia Tech
11. Wake Forest
12. Virginia Tech

Big East

1. West Virginia
2. Pittsburgh
3. Villanova
4. Connecticut
5. Georgetown
6. Marquette
7. Cincinnati
8. St. John's
9. Syracuse
10. Rutgers
11. Seton Hall
12. Louisville
13. Providence
14. Notre Dame
15. DePaul
16. South Florida

Top 12 teams make BET.

Comparing Conferences

1. Duke > West Virginia
2. NC State = Pitt
3. Virginia < Villanova
4. Maryland < UConn
5. UNC = G'Town
6. Florida State = Marquette
7. Clemson < Cincy
8. Miami < St. John's
9. BC = SU
10. Georgia Tech = Rutgers
11. Wake Forest > Seton Hall
12. V. Tech < Louisville

Judging by that logic it would be 5-2 in Big East's favor.

Where do you get these rankings from? The current standings? Uconn is obviously the best team in the BE and UVa is not the 3rd best team in the ACC. I agree though the BE is better THIS YEAR. it's one of those very rare years when they are.

The supposed best team in the BE just lost AT HOME to Marshall:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/recap;_ylt=AqmZTkaQrZHJP57LBFgj08nevbYF?gid=200601 250636

[Orange Nation]

it's one of those very rare years when they are.

very rare?

the only team that is good year after year for your conference is Duke, that it.

[Orange Nation]

Not to mention that the last three games SU have had all been against top 10 teams.  An upset would have been nice, but this team wasn't supposed to win any of those games

[nyjunc]

very rare?

the only team that is good year after year for your conference is Duke, that it.

Please, Carolina had a 2 year dip after losing a legend but we've been a top team 90% of the years for about 40 years now. it's very rare when the ACC hasn't been the best and when the BE has been better. A couple of times in the 80s, about 2001 or 2002 and this year. It's very rare.

the only consistently big time team in the BE is UConn and the only 2 teams that hve won titles in the last 20 years are UConn and SU. Since 2001 the ACC has had 3 different Champions.

Not to mention that the last three games SU have had all been against top 10 teams. An upset would have been nice, but this team wasn't supposed to win any of those games

Pitt is a paper tiger and you lost to UConn at home. You didn't just play '90 UNLV the last 3 games. You should have been able to get at least 1 win.

[Orange Nation]

Pitt is a paper tiger and you lost to UConn at home. You didn't just play '90 UNLV the last 3 games. You should have been able to get at least 1 win.

let's see uconn has lost once all year they are the #1 team in the nation, they will win WHEREVER they play...PERIOD. #7 Villanova @ #7 Villanova I didnt think we would win, and @ #10 PITT...


and unc should have beaten BOSTON COLLEGE @ HOME last night...yeah thats right at HOME!

whenever a teams 4 of their first 6 games is on the road its gonna be hard END OF DISCUSSION

[Orange Nation]

ill say it again:

Well, SU has lost to #1 Uconn, #4 Florida, #6 Villanova, #10 Pitt, and a good Bucknell team

UNC has lost to #8 Illinois, #18 Boston College, USC, Miami, and Virginia

UNC's losses are worse than ours. Who would win? Who knows.. it could go either way but Syracuse is the better team right now even with how they did in their past 3 games.

it also may be fair to say that there are 7-9 teams in the BigEast that are better than UNC... and Cuse certainly qualifies as one.

[nyjunc]

let's see uconn has lost once all year they are the #1 team in the nation, they will win WHEREVER they play...PERIOD. #7 Villanova @ #7 Villanova I didnt think we would win, and @ #10 PITT...


and unc should have beaten BOSTON COLLEGE @ HOME last night...yeah thats right at HOME!

whenever a teams 4 of their first 6 games is on the road its gonna be hard END OF DISCUSSION

UConn is not invincible, ST. John's played a touhger game at UConn than SU did at home and UConn has played alot of close games this year. Nova was touhg and they are alot better but Pitt is paper tiger. They are not very good and that's a winnable game. At worst you have to get 1 of those 3.

Carolina was the first Championship team to EVER lose all 5 starters and we lost our top 7. We are not a big time team this year but will be an up and down team which right now is more down than up.

Well, SU has lost to #1 Uconn, #4 Florida, #6 Villanova, #10 Pitt, and a good Bucknell team

UNC has lost to #8 Illinois, #18 Boston College, USC, Miami, and Virginia


Again UNC lost it's top SEVEN players from last year, SU SHOULD be better and anyone who watches CBB knows UF and Pitt are frauds. Bucknell is a good team but Miami isn't? The only bad team we lost to was USC and that was an 11PM game on the WC.

UNC's losses are worse than ours. Who would win? Who knows.. it could go either way but Syracuse is the better team right now even with how they did in their past 3 games.


We are definitely better than Syracuse this year and we shouldn't be w/ all we lost.

[Orange Nation]

Again UNC lost it's top SEVEN players from last year, SU SHOULD be better and anyone who watches CBB knows UF and Pitt are frauds. Bucknell is a good team but Miami isn't? The only bad team we lost to was USC and that was an 11PM game on the WC.

do i give a shit? good teams reload...Not REBUILD


We are definitely better than Syracuse this year and we shouldn't be w/ all we lost.

no way you are, time to get your head out of your ass and come back to reality

[nyjunc]

do i give a shit? good teams reload...Not REBUILD


It is historic what the Heels lost. Their top 7 and 4 of them early. NO team ahs ever gone through that.

no way you are, time to get your head out of your ass and come back to reality


yeah SU is great, they sure prove that w/ the rough non-conf sched where they haven't beaten a ranked team all year.

your best player is a 3 pt shooter who is shooting 32% from 3, you don't have a player that comes close to Hansbrough. I wish we could play in the Tourney but if we both make it we'll be lower seeds and won't have a chance to meet.

[Orange Nation]

Did you get your NIT tickets yet?

[Orange Nation]

Pitt is a paper tiger

"The Panthers have been really good before this year, but this might be Pitt's best chance to reach the Final Four.

This Pitt team is still physical and methodical, but it seems to be less deliberate and dependent upon muscle. In other words, this version of Pitt basketball might be more skilled. The different aspect of this team is quality depth. Jamie Dixon really does put 10 different guys into the game in key situations and gives the game a different look.

Carl Krauser is now playing off the ball and is no longer dominating the ball and over-dribbling. Ronald Ramon is a good shooter and defender who is not flashy"- Jay Bilas

[Dolphinssuck]

haha I was just gonna post that.

a "mediocre" team just bumped off the ACC's best.

Duke is #1 in the ACC, G'town is #7 in the big east.

my bad the big east isnt just better, its wayyyy better...no question, and it will continue to be. Sun shines on a dogs butt every now and then as well. Anyway come March when Duke is getting the title we'll see where Georgetown and the rest of the BE is sitting at home watching and dreaming of a title.

[nyjunc]

Did you get your NIT tickets yet?

Is a Syracuse fan trying to talk junk about UNC? :buddy: We have more National Titles than you have Final Four appearances and despite losing a legendary coach and having a couple of non-Carolina like seasons we have as many FF's in the last decade as SU has in it's ENTIRE history.

Neither one of us will be ranked come Monday but at least we have a tough non-conf sched for the committee to look back in which, as usual, you do not.

[nyjunc]

"The Panthers have been really good before this year, but this might be Pitt's best chance to reach the Final Four.

This Pitt team is still physical and methodical, but it seems to be less deliberate and dependent upon muscle. In other words, this version of Pitt basketball might be more skilled. The different aspect of this team is quality depth. Jamie Dixon really does put 10 different guys into the game in key situations and gives the game a different look.

Carl Krauser is now playing off the ball and is no longer dominating the ball and over-dribbling. Ronald Ramon is a good shooter and defender who is not flashy"- Jay Bilas

This is the same Pit team we've seen for years, creampuff non-conf sched, beat up on the bottom half of the BE and go out early in the NCAA Tourney.

They started 11-0 last year, 17-0 2 years ago, 9-0 3 years ago, 15-1 4 years ago, ...

They do it every year b/c they have creampuff scheds every year then they crash back to reality in March.

[Orange Nation]

we have a tough non-conf sched for the committee to look back in m

id like to have some of what you are smoking, how old are you anyways

[nyjunc]

m

id like to have some of what you are smoking, how old are you anyways

What I'm smoking? It's not the Heels fault that Arizona and Kentucky haven't been as good as they were supposed to be but they were top 10 teams coming into the year. those games alone give us a MUCH more difficult sched than you had throw in illinois and it's a joke we are even discussing this. This was supposed to bea don year and the sched isn't as tough as usual but this year is considered a tough sched for Syracuse which is pathetic.

The only time you left the State of NY was to go to mighty Towson. You played ONE ranked team in the non-conf at MSG and that was Florida who is vastly overratd b/c they haven't beaten anyone good this year. Your sched is a joke as usual.

The skid is at 4 and counting, losing to SH at home? and you are trying to say you are better than us?

How old am I? I am old enough to have been alive for 10 UNC Final Four's and 3 nat'l Titles and just 3 SU FF's w/ 1 title.

[Orange Nation]

you done? I'm defintely pessimistic right now.

For all the SU Fans, cause I know there are a lot on this board. Paul Harris cannot get here soon enough the way things are going right now.  And considering the present, I'm a little more inclined to wanna talk about next year.

I think we have to assume that Nichols, Roberts, Harris and Devendorf will be the four primary guys.  It was a foregone conclusion by most that Harris would simply step in in the spot vacated by GMac.  However, I think (or at least hope) that the center spot now has to be a question mark.  This could actually be a blessing in disguise.  Instead of Mookie, Boeheim could use any number of options. 

He could use Onuaku, or Gorman,  or even some DBM.....or perhaps some sort of three-headed monster of goons, there's no shortage of bodies to be sure.

Or, more interesting, he could slide Roberts to the middle, where suddenly things really open up.  Perhaps someone like Mike Jones slides into the other forward spot alongside Demetris. 

Or even more interesting, Nichols and Harris could play in the frontcourt, allowing any one such as Louie, Josh or even Rautins to play the other guard spot alongside ED.  I'm starting to like this idea. 

With Harris' apparent versatility, you could get away with almost any combo.  While SU might lack a true 4 in a forward duo of Nichols and Harris, you'd still have the height and reach of Nichols along with the athleticism and strength of Harris to board effectively, not to mention they'd both be good if not great defenders.

If SU loses to Rutgers on Wednesday , wake me up when November 06 rolls around.  Actually there'll be no need for that, I'll be counting the days starting Thursday morning (only 270-something days!).

Mark it down, Harris, a local Niagara Falls product, will dominate.

[Orange Nation]

Big East debate down below. Here's my take:

Tournament one seeds - BE 2; ACC 1

Two seeds - BE 0; ACC 0

Three seeds - BE 1; ACC 1

Four seeds - BE 1; ACC 1

Five seeds - BE 0; ACC 0

Six seeds - BE 1; ACC 1

Total bids - BE 8 (maybe 9); ACC 4

There's no comparison between the BE and the ACC. Top to bottom, the BE trounces the lowly ACC.

[nyjunc]

Big East debate down below. Here's my take:

Tournament one seeds - BE 2; ACC 1

Two seeds - BE 0; ACC 0

Three seeds - BE 1; ACC 1

Four seeds - BE 1; ACC 1

Five seeds - BE 0; ACC 0

Six seeds - BE 1; ACC 1

Total bids - BE 8 (maybe 9); ACC 4

There's no comparison between the BE and the ACC. Top to bottom, the BE trounces the lowly ACC.

You asked me how old I was but how old are you? The "lowly ACC"? The ACC has been the best conf in most years and is down a bit this year b/c we lost a ton of guys early including 4 early off the bst team in the Country. The BE doesn't compare to the ACC in most years so live it up this year w/ the "great" BE b/c it won't last long before things get back to normal.

Who is a 6 seed for the ACC by the way?


Still think Syracuse is better than Carolina?

[Orange Nation]

BE is better NOW. Get over it. And if you think that's going to change any time soon, you're nuts.

This is about as bad as you will ever see Syracuse, Cincinatti, and Louisville. When those 3 get back to their usual status....oh my God.

[nyjunc]

BE is better NOW. Get over it. And if you think that's going to change any time soon, you're nuts.

This is about as bad as you will ever see Syracuse, Cincinatti, and Louisville. When those 3 get back to their usual status....oh my God.

The ACC will be back very soon, check the McD's roster. SEVEN ACC players(should be more) to TWO for the BE.

What usual status does Cincy have? they always lose in the first weekend of the tourney and now w/o Huggins they are done.

I have been hearing the same nonsense from BE fans for decades now and yet the ACC is better 90% of the time. Since 1990 the BE has 4 FF teams(SU twice and UConn twice)- just FOUR! Carolina alone has been 7 times. That's 3 more times than your entire conference! Talk to me after a few more FF apperances from your "great" conference.