Casino suit tries to save us from ourselves

[Billsman]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060104/1016018.asp

It is a chance to turn back the clock before it strikes midnight.
It is a way to ward off regret, to avoid yet another "if only" lament, to stop the train before it rolls off the tracks.

It is a move to avoid another addition to the litany of projects and "progress" that have hurt more than helped us.

Look at it that way and you will know why they are doing this.

A lawsuit backed by various local groups, clergy and private citizens was filed Tuesday in federal court to stop the Seneca Nation of Indians from building a casino near the Buffalo waterfront.

"The deal that has been done," attorney Joe Finnerty said, "is not a done deal."

The anti-casino folks are not anti-development. They are simply against something going up that they think, with good reason, will hold us down. The same charitable foundation that pumped $4.5 million into the bioinformatics campus is bankrolling the lawsuit. That's how much the Wendt Foundation, led by attorney and grandfatherly Buffalo icon Bob Kresse, believes a casino will hurt us.

"People want to fight this, but they don't have the money that the state or the Senecas have," said Tom Lunt of the Wendt Foundation. "A private foundation can take that [monetary] risk and give local citizens a chance."

The legal arguments involve acts of Congress and moves by the secretary of the interior. The legal arguments are merely a path to avoid what these folks see as another Buffalo blunder.

The problem with a place where so little development happens is that people get desperate for anything. But if the last half-century taught us anything, it's that not every project is progress.

"A guy I know said he just wants to see something happen," Kresse said. "That's ludicrous. The idea of the city [permanently] turning over land to a sovereign nation for this purpose is preposterous."

If we could turn back the clock and build UB in Buffalo instead of the Amherst marshes, we would.

If we could reverse time and not slice up a good neighborhood with the Kensington Expressway; if we could erase the mistake of cutting off precious waterfront with the Niagara Thruway; if we could not blight downtown with a monolithic mall, we would.

This is about stopping a mistake before, for once, it is too late. The clock is ticking, but the bell has not tolled.

The last thing we need is another hole punched in a nearly dry economic basin. Tony Masiello, Byron Brown and others tout a casino as a job-creating spur to development. Yet this casino will mostly be about local gamblers filling Seneca Nation pockets. The Senecas take most of the profits, Albany gets a decent cut for doing nothing and Buffalo gets relative crumbs - even though local folks will drop most of the money.

Experts say the jobs created at a casino come at equal cost of jobs in the community, because dollars dropped at the casino used to be spent elsewhere. And if a stand-alone casino spurs growth, you sure can't tell it by Niagara Falls, N.Y.

I don't blame the Senecas; they merely took the sweet deal the governor and state lawmakers gave them. Just as I don't blame the folks who are trying to stop it.

This is how it works around here. Politicians fail us, but enlightened citizens use the courts to make it right. It is why we will get a better bridge to Canada. It is why we will get a historic Erie Canal project instead of the bland landscaping originally planned. Without a lawsuit, neither one would have happened. Now folks are suing to stop what looks like another mistake.

It is not the neatest, quickest or cleanest way to get the right thing done. But sometimes politicians leave people little choice.

[RabidBillsFan]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060104/1016018.asp

Experts say the jobs created at a casino come at equal cost of jobs in the community, because dollars dropped at the casino used to be spent elsewhere. And if a stand-alone casino spurs growth, you sure can't tell it by Niagara Falls, N.Y.

I don't blame the Senecas; they merely took the sweet deal the governor and state lawmakers gave them. Just as I don't blame the folks who are trying to stop it.

This is how it works around here. Politicians fail us, but enlightened citizens use the courts to make it right. It is why we will get a better bridge to Canada. It is why we will get a historic Erie Canal project instead of the bland landscaping originally planned. Without a lawsuit, neither one would have happened. Now folks are suing to stop what looks like another mistake.

It is not the neatest, quickest or cleanest way to get the right thing done. But sometimes politicians leave people little choice.

The funny thing is that PEOPLE GAMBLE ANYWAY when they go over to Niagara Falls. What kind of stupid morons object to a casino that obviously won't negatively impact anything?

They can SAY it is another mistake, but I say finally, FINALLY, the politicians are doing what they should have done years ago when Niagara Falls, Ontario created their tourist mecca. Good for the Senecas, and good for the city of Buffalo!

[nehemiah]

a seneca casino does not a "tourist mecca" make.

[г]

A Casino in Buffalo would not be a reason for me to visit/spend money on hotels, restaurants, etc.

[sukie]

a seneca casino does not a "tourist mecca" make.
The question Nehe is ... does a Casino hurt the economy in any way?

[RabidBillsFan]

a seneca casino does not a "tourist mecca" make.

What DOES make a tourist mecca, HSBC arena? The Anchor Bar? Peace Bridge?

It is much better than what is there presently for outside attraction for anyone other than Buffalonians. Why is that so hard to see?

[г]

Just put up roadside fireworks trailers & brothels. They're tourist attractions, aren't they ?

[nehemiah]

The question Nehe is ... does a Casino hurt the economy in any way?
the question is who the heck wants to develop anything next to a casino? so we can have another clifton hill?

more eyesores and drunk 18 year olds beating each other up. whoopie. that will be a blast.

[nehemiah]

It is much better than what is there presently for outside attraction for anyone other than Buffalonians. Why is that so hard to see?people who travel across the country to go to a casino don't do anything but gamble in the casino.

big whoop. they spend all their money in one place. it's a poor way to develop an entire neighborhood, much less a city.

[RabidBillsFan]

people who travel across the country to go to a casino don't do anything but gamble in the casino.

big whoop. they spend all their money in one place. it's a poor way to develop an entire neighborhood, much less a city.

Doing NOTHING to attract tourists or interest in the city is WORSE. I hear a large drain keep on sending more people out of the area while Nero fiddles...

[nehemiah]

Doing NOTHING to attract tourists or interest in the city is WORSE. I hear a large drain keep on sending more people out of the area while Nero fiddles...doing "anything" is a bad idea, IMO. and once it's built - you're stuck. they need to come up with better ideas.

the tourist stuff is crap. tourism is not going to save buffalo.

ya have to get people to LIVE downtown. make downtown safer from drunk *******s starting fights. expand the housing market downtown. transform the abandoned buildings into apartments. build a mid-range musical arena down there. make a restaurant district next to chippewa. figure out a way to get people on chippewa earlier in the day.

[г]

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[RabidBillsFan]

doing "anything" is a bad idea, IMO. and once it's built - you're stuck. they need to come up with better ideas.

the tourist stuff is crap. tourism is not going to save buffalo.

ya have to get people to LIVE downtown. make downtown safer from drunk *******s starting fights. expand the housing market downtown. transform the abandoned buildings into apartments. build a mid-range musical arena down there. make a restaurant district next to chippewa. figure out a way to get people on chippewa earlier in the day.

First you have to have legitimate jobs for people to work to earn the money to spend. The apartments then can be built to incorporate the increase in population. Then, the tax base increases due to the new influx of taxpayers and apartments. After, the cultural choices of restaraunts and et cetera can survive and make money.

By this cycle of events, what you want is POSSIBLE.

When you continue to let the area be stagnant and deny new business that is risk-free, you make your suggestions IMPOSSIBLE. There just won't be enough people left to m ake ANY of it viable.

[nehemiah]

First you have to have legitimate jobs for people to work to earn the money to spend. The apartments then can be built to incorporate the increase in population. Then, the tax base increases due to the new influx of taxpayers and apartments. After, the cultural choices of restaraunts and et cetera can survive and make money.

By this cycle of events, what you want is POSSIBLE.

When you continue to let the area be stagnant and deny new business that is risk-free, you make your suggestions IMPOSSIBLE. There just won't be enough people left to m ake ANY of it viable.you mention risk... so why should we bring in added risk with very little return? do something with an equal amount of risk and a long term return.

do you really think that the jobs offered by a casino are going to save buffalo? also, having a job downtown doesn't mean anyone is going to live there. if no one lives there... it remains what it is - a wasteland.

people drive in to the casino for a few hours and then go home. how does that help buffalo? the indians get the money from the casino and the suburbs get the tax money from the housing. there's no real fix there.

casino is a short term answer. buffalo needs someone to step up and make a long term plan. people living downtown is the only thing that will save buffalo. a casino is not going to help that.

[RabidBillsFan]

you mention risk... so why should we bring in added risk with very little return? do something with an equal amount of risk and a long term return.

do you really think that the jobs offered by a casino are going to save buffalo? also, having a job downtown doesn't mean anyone is going to live there. if no one lives there... it remains what it is - a wasteland.

people drive in to the casino for a few hours and then go home. how does that help buffalo? the indians get the money from the casino and the suburbs get the tax money from the housing. there's no real fix there.

casino is a short term answer. buffalo needs someone to step up and make a long term plan. people living downtown is the only thing that will save buffalo. a casino is not going to help that.

Hey, so far nothing else has worked. A good suggestion is much better than the status quo by FAR.

[г]

So you're OK with the fireworks trailers and hookers thing ?

[nehemiah]

Hey, so far nothing else has worked. A good suggestion is much better than the status quo by FAR.did i miss something?

when has there been an honest discussion about how far buffalo has fallen because of the suburban exodus?

what proposals have been tabled other than touristy crap?

the hookers thing is a good idea, though.

[RabidBillsFan]

So you're OK with the fireworks trailers and hookers thing ?

Hey, Montreal has MUCH more than that!!! :rofl:

[anEinherjer]

The only reason I support putting a casino in downtown Buffalo is to keep some of those gambling dollars, which would normally go up to N.F. Canada or out to Atlantic City or Vegas, in Buffalo.

Of course, most of the money going into a few rich Seneca pockets doesn't help us, but on that, two points: 1. Buffalo will see at least SOMETHING for it. 2. I get a kind of schadenfreude feeling that the Senecas are finally taking something back from the white man.

In the long run, gambling should be completely legal like any other business, but since that's not happening any time soon - might as well make the best of it. Keep the loser's money in Buffalo! w00t!

And Nehe, there are new units opening up in downtown all the time. The revitalization of downtown Buffalo is already underway - people just don't realize it yet.

[RabidBillsFan]

Of course, most of the money going into a few rich Seneca pockets doesn't help us, but on that, two points: 1. Buffalo will see at least SOMETHING for it. 2. I get a kind of schadenfreude feeling that the Senecas are finally taking something back from the white man.

Did you know that some Native Americans hire Chinese workers for real cheap wages far below minimum wage? Talk about major hypocrisy. I was sick when I heard that.

[nehemiah]

And Nehe, there are new units opening up in downtown all the time. The revitalization of downtown Buffalo is already underway - people just don't realize it yet.kewl. when UB hooks me up with a job - there will be a sweet place to live. mostly houses, condos, or apts?

[sukie]

the question is who the heck wants to develop anything next to a casino? so we can have another clifton hill?

more eyesores and drunk 18 year olds beating each other up. whoopie. that will be a blast.
Huge development around a casino here in my town... Coconut Creek. Called the mainstreet project.

[nehemiah]

Huge development around a casino here in my town... Coconut Creek. Called the mainstreet project.what have they developed?

secondly, is it more due to the fact that the powderheads are all moving down south to retire?

[sukie]

A huge casino expansion... size of the Hollywood Hard Rock
3/4 miles square with shops, restaurants, entertainment venues, and housing (no lower income... sorry) Plus... across the street the are evicting a trailor park community to build 3 story townhomes starting in the 300's... YIPPEE!!!

[mark3274]

this lawsuit is going to lose. The courts have already ruled on the legality of casino expansion in NY it is a waste of everyones time.

[sukie]

is it now Seneca land?

[mark3274]

is it now Seneca land?
yes

these people just want to sue for god only knows what.
now what the hell are they going to do when video 21 gets added to the racinos in ny???? coming soon lol

or another proposal on patakis desk is for the state lottery to "legalize sports betting in NY" man the anti gambling folks will fall on the floor while pataki and the state will be smiling all the way to the bank.

[sukie]

If it's Seneca land... how can there even be a suit?

[BabaGanoush]

Bottom line is you need to develop the waterfront in order to bring not even tourists but just people from the surrounding area first and eventually through a combination of a casino, a waterfront, maybe a new shopping center Buffalo will be able to bring in tourists. Detroit has casinos, a develped waterfront and a thriving downtown community. A casino in Buffalo will also provide another venue that will bring inmusic acts which may bring people into the city.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Bottom line is you need to develop the waterfront in order to bring not even tourists but just people from the surrounding area first and eventually through a combination of a casino, a waterfront, maybe a new shopping center Buffalo will be able to bring in tourists. Detroit has casinos, a develped waterfront and a thriving downtown community. A casino in Buffalo will also provide another venue that will bring inmusic acts which may bring people into the city.
Agreed...

[nehemiah]

Detroit has casinos, a develped waterfront and a thriving downtown community.for real?

[ckg68]

Did you know that some Native Americans hire Chinese workers for real cheap wages far below minimum wage? Talk about major hypocrisy. I was sick when I heard that.

Try this on for size: Some time ago in the Niagara Falls Observer,they ran an article from a person who had been involved in the gambling industry for years-and was a Native American to boot-who applied for a management post in the Seneca Niagara casino(mid-level,I believe). Basically,he was told that no native was going to be hired beyond the level of pit boss.

[г]

Pit Boss = Mr Slate, right ?

[ckg68]

Pit Boss = Mr Slate, right ?

Uh,no. Not the time to impress us all with the fact that you know your Flintstones trivia inside and out.

[anEinherjer]

Yeah, it's nice to see the Senecas get some payback, but really, they're just as greedy as the rest of us. They were supposed to be sending checks to all Senecas sharing the profits from the N.F. one, and my red meat buddy (who was in my wedding) hasn't seen much. I should call him and get the inside scoop on all this, if he knows any more (moved to Az).

Nehe, most of what's coming open downtown these days seems to be "trendy" condos - lofts, ex-industrial space. Some of it's pretty cool, some pretty cool buildings.

I really think one day in the not-too-distant future we'll be able to look around downtown and say, "Damn, when did this happen?" It's all slow, and no magic bullet. But it's happening.

[mark3274]

the anti gamers are fighting a lost battle. there is a casino in every house in america that has a computer any doubters just type online casino into google and see what happens.

[ckg68]

Mark: There's little that they can do online,you're right-because most of them are outside the U.S.

As I've stated before,this area is casino'ed and racino'ed out. Five are within a half-hour drive of my house,and two more are within an hour-plus.

What gets my goat more is why aren't they just as concerned with all the places that sell lottery tickets,Quick Draw,bingo,etc. too? You can only draw blood from a stone in so many places before it runs dry and you have to find the next one.

[Billsman]

Too bad the City can't force the casino to also build a separate community center with each new casino.

[mark3274]

Too bad the City can't force the casino to also build a separate community center with each new casino.

well maybe but what would that accomplish? the sad thing is NY even with the few casinos they have are not building the type of casinos that inspire more development in a area.

the casinos that the indians have built compared to resorts like foxwoods or elsewhere are not going to inspire people to travel or visit them. supposedly turning stone might build a indoor water park but they are still nothing even close to what foxwoods has.

the sad thing is they do things half hearted in western NY they talk and talk about what they can do to help the area but it ends up as mostly talk and hope. Talk is not going to keep people from leaving the state. look at the joke the destiny ny project has become. It would have turned NY into a destination vacation spot instead its turned into smoke and mirrors talk that will never happen. are they still building bass pro? NY just can not seem to get anything done.