The new Buffalo waterfront

[Billsman]

http://www.buffalowaterfront.com/

Now:

[Billsman]

The future:

[Billsman]

This last model was customized by PoliticsWNY.com to remove the Skyway and replace it with a tunnel. We just added trees to the empty space. However, this opens up more land for further development projects.

[Meridius]

Hmm, I don't see the people having sex like I did not too long ago...

fugly people too...

[35Pete]

Hmm, I don't see the people having sex like I did not too long ago...

fugly people too...
Huh??? You are usually one of the most centered and rational posters on the Range but this post came straight out of crackville.

[THATHURMANATOR]

So what is the deal with the buildings. What will be for?

[Meridius]

Huh??? You are usually one of the most centered and rational posters on the Range but this post came straight out of crackville.

I live not far from some of the waterfront (Tift St)...and one day we went there to take some pictures...and found a couple having sex on the beach, oblivious to everyone passing by!

[ckg68]

Knowing the pace of how Buffalo does things,I expect this vision to become reality right about the time most of us Range-ers are pushing up daisies.

Sorry to have to be the one who throws cold water on anyone's dreams,but someone has to.

[THATHURMANATOR]

DAMN YOU CK

[35Pete]

I live not far from some of the waterfront (Tift St)...and one day we went there to take some pictures...and found a couple having sex on the beach, oblivious to everyone passing by!
Good for them ;) I hope you left them copies too.

[The REAL Sabres]

I am all for the Skywayless future!

[Billsman]

Man, if it does all come together, it'll look sweet.

[Billsman]

Imagine Lackawana becoming "choice" lake front property... ;)

[CoachC.]

Can we fit a new football stadium in there somewhere?

[Billsman]

Coach, IMO, Buffalo should have had the stadium downtown somewhere.

[Jro]

none of that will ever happen. Trust me

[Billsman]

Why you think that jro?

[Wing Eater]

Why you think that jro?

About twice a year the Buffalo News will run one of these articles and include pretty pictures about what it will look like. This has been going on for over 3 decades...not one of these "visions" has come remotely true. Here are some off the top of my head.

Adelphia project
Bass Pro project
that domed amusement park thingy
peace bridge
downtown casino
erie canal project

[Mouldsie]

we were recently awarded 280 million or something for this project.... this could be the one

[35Pete]

we were recently awarded 280 million or something for this project.... this could be the one
280 million is a drop in the bucket. The area needs over a billion.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Just because things haven't happened previously doesn't mean that things will not happen in the future. I am more inclined to believe that things will start to get done. The Downtown casino has been decided and will be started soon. The Bass pro deal does seem to be falling apart but that is just because of the upfront cash. This negative attitude about everything is annoying.

[Billsman]

I read thatthe casino will get done and the Bass pro is still going to be done.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The Casino is a done deal for sure and the Bass Pro probably will happen. Just big delays...

[Billsman]

Every city runs into snags, it happens here in Phoenix too, more often that not. I guess people who never lived in big cities dont realize that crap happens.

I read about the casino and the grain mills being torn down, there's a thread here about it. I like that idea too, anything that will bring in business and people Im all for, plus I'll need a place to go when I move back! :)

[Billsman]

Went to the Bass pro web site and they're still promoting it there.

[Billsman]

Here's the link to the new downtown Buffalo casino:
http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?t=79390

[mark3274]

none of that will ever happen. Trust me


lol and you know this how???


maybe not but buffalo does have somethings being built or are you going to proclaim none of these will be finished either?

2007 The year of cranes and shovels

12/4/2005

1. The Erie Canal Harbor project. To be completed in late 2007.
2. The Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus. Allen Street extension opens in 2007.

3. The Peace Bridge expansion. Construction may start in 2007.

4. Bass Pro. Scheduled to open in 2007.

5. Seneca Buffalo Casino. Scheduled to open in 2007.

6. Outer Harbor project. Construction under way in 2007.

7. The Southtowns Connector. Project begins in 2007.

8. Federal Courthouse. Construction could start in 2007.

9. HealthNow headquarters. Occupancy date: August 2007.

10. Darwin Martin House. Visitor Center construction under way in 2007.

11. Tropical Rain Forest exhibit. Buffalo Zoo. Scheduled to open in 2007.

12. Niagara River Greenway. Should begin in 2007.

13. Waterfront Village development. Erie Basin Marina. Under construction in 2007.

14. ECC City Campus expansion. May be under way in 2007.

15. Michigan Avenue African-American cultural and historic park. May be under way in 2007.

16. H.H. Richardson's Buffalo State Hospital complex. May get under way in 2007.

[Billsman]

Maybe I'll get a construction job there. :)

[nehemiah]

the grain mills are landmarks. they ain't coming down.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Who cares about some old ass grain mills. Knock them the F down.

[Billsman]

the grain mills are landmarks. they ain't coming down.

They already knocked or are ready to knock the one on the water front down for the casino.

[The REAL Sabres]

The Casino ground breaking has already occured, but something about this whole casino project rubs me the wrong way. Don't get me wrong, I am all for a casino downtown, but the way they're doing sounds cheap and pointless. It's going to be 1 casino and 1 restaurant, nothing else. No eventual expansion to include a hotel or other restaurants. Why? It just seems somewhat half-assed. I hope they end up doing it right.

[nehemiah]

They already knocked or are ready to knock the one on the water front down for the casino.yeah?

you got a link? that's interesting b/c i know that most of them are landmarks - the ones further down the river, at least.

[Billsman]

yeah?

you got a link? that's interesting b/c i know that most of them are landmarks - the ones further down the river, at least.

http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?t=79390

[nehemiah]

"It's a disgrace that our elected leadership is standing here cheering on the destruction of a historic structure," Tielman said. "Development can co-exist with historic buildings, but no one is giving it a try here."

totally true. just more evidence of short sighted leadership that has plagued buffalo since the 1920s.

[Meridius]

Good for them ;) I hope you left them copies too.

Oh HELL no...they were FUGLY! I don't wanna break our camera!http://freeweb.supereva.com/esorciccio2002/smilies/yuk.gif

[Billsman]

It would be cool if they cold use it/them somehow.

[Jro]

Don't get me wrong. I want it to happen. But a lot would need to change.

For starters we don't have the population for these types of projects. Our first goal needs to be making people WANT to live here. Taxes and other NYS stuff turn people off.

I only graduated 2 years ago and large numbers of my class have already left. It's just easier to live in other parts of the country.

[gilchristfan]

http://www.buffalowaterfront.com/

Now:

Boring. Same old, same old. I'd go for something like this:

http://www.greatgardensofcornwall.co.uk/imagery/eden2.jpg

Put a roof on it.

[The REAL Sabres]

Put a roof on it.Noooo! A retractable roof.

[Billsman]

I want to live back in B-Lo.

[The REAL Sabres]

I want to live back in B-Lo.Huh? I thought you were.

[Billsman]

What planet have you been on? God, I love the staff here.

[Billsman]

Im looking for a home in the OP, Hamburg, Aurora area.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Don't get me wrong. I want it to happen. But a lot would need to change.

For starters we don't have the population for these types of projects. Our first goal needs to be making people WANT to live here. Taxes and other NYS stuff turn people off.

I only graduated 2 years ago and large numbers of my class have already left. It's just easier to live in other parts of the country.
What the hell are you talking about? How can we make people WANT to live here if none of these projects ever materialize? It would be same old same old. The taxes thing is BS too. The cost of living here is so much lower than in so many places. A house you can get here for 75 80 thousand here would go for 200,000 in some areas. So the extra school/property taxes aren't quite as bad.... I graduated from college in 1999(out of state) I wanted to come back badly. Most of my High school friends still live here as well. Only 2 friends have moved away and 1 is about to move back as well.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Boring. Same old, same old. I'd go for something like this:

http://www.greatgardensofcornwall.co.uk/imagery/eden2.jpg

Put a roof on it.
That looks kinda weird! It would be cool though

[Billsman]

What the hell are you talking about? How can we make people WANT to live here if none of these projects ever materialize? It would be same old same old. The taxes thing is BS too. The cost of living here is so much lower than in so many places. A house you can get here for 75 80 thousand here would go for 200,000 in some areas. So the extra school/property taxes aren't quite as bad.... I graduated from college in 1999(out of state) I wanted to come back badly. Most of my High school friends still live here as well. Only 2 friends have moved away and 1 is about to move back as well.

Thank you. Like I said, many people in WNY have no idea what its like to live in a big city out side of the WNY/NY area. Been there, done that, it sucks compared to back home, which is why Im on my way back east. I could list, actually we already have, the reasons WNY is much better to live than anywhere else so I wont get on my soap box just yet. ;)

[gilchristfan]

"It's a disgrace that our elected leadership is standing here cheering on the destruction of a historic structure," Tielman said. "Development can co-exist with historic buildings, but no one is giving it a try here."

totally true. just more evidence of short sighted leadership that has plagued buffalo since the 1920s.

Ah, hooey. Keep one or two around for posterity sake, but there's no need to live in a time capsule. They've been around for over 80 years and no one's found a modern use for them.

Don't get me wrong, my godfather's was a lifer at General Mills, and I can appreciate the historical aspect, but really, how much architectural significance does each have? (Maybe I'll let Admarc answer that). Do you really need to keep all of them? At the expense of growth of the city? The Seaway won't close anytime soon, so they won't be used anytime soon.

Now, if we were talking about tearing down the Central Terminal, I'd have more of a problem.

[gilchristfan]

Noooo! A retractable roof.

Oh, OK, if you want to use it for the 40 days of summer, put rollers on the roofs then.

[sukie]

I was looking at that first picture... at what o'clock would you find the old "crawdaddy's"?

[ckg68]

Im looking for a home in the OP, Hamburg, Aurora area.

Hell,my brother lives in OP within shouting distance of The Ralph. (Alas,it's on a side street...which means he can't make any cash running a satellite lot for Bills games.)

[Billsman]

Gil, Im with you on the old terminal!

[Circusboy39]

Is H-O Oats coming down too? Man, I love that building....

[wagoncircler]

Now, if we were talking about tearing down the Central Terminal, I'd have more of a problem.

You'd see me on the news standing in front of the bulldozers.

People have no idea how much architectual heritage is reflected in Buffalo's older buildings. This is a city that allowed what was arguably Frank Lloyd Wright's most famous building (OK, maybe second to Fallingwater), The Larkin Company HQ, to be demolished.


Louis Sullivan's Guaranty Building, H.H. Richardson's State Hospital, City Hall, Kleinhans Music Hall and Wright's Darwin D. Martin house are just a few of the examples of world-class architecture in Buffalo.

Unfortunately, decades of politicians with their heads up their asses have stood in the way of anything meaningful ever being done to turn around the city's economic woes.

Ever wonder what Buffalo COULD be like? Visit Chicago. An absolutely amazing example of what a city on the Great Lakes can be. And if you're from Buffalo, you fit in like a hand in a glove. The even sound like us. I lived there for ten years and nobody ever asked where I was from.

[Billsman]

Where you from? ;) Even Cleveland has made considerable progress at it's downtown and waterfront area. You'd see me on the news standing in front of the bulldozers.

People have no idea how much architectual heritage is reflected in Buffalo's older buildings. This is a city that allowed what was arguably Frank Lloyd Wright's most famous building (OK, maybe second to Fallingwater), The Larkin Company HQ, to be demolished.


Louis Sullivan's Guaranty Building, H.H. Richardson's State Hospital, City Hall, Kleinhans Music Hall and Wright's Darwin D. Martin house are just a few of the examples of world-class architecture in Buffalo.

Unfortunately, decades of politicians with their heads up their asses have stood in the way of anything meaningful ever being done to turn around the city's economic woes.

Ever wonder what Buffalo COULD be like? Visit Chicago. An absolutely amazing example of what a city on the Great Lakes can be. And if you're from Buffalo, you fit in like a hand in a glove. The even sound like us. I lived there for ten years and nobody ever asked where I was from.

[nehemiah]

Ah, hooey. Keep one or two around for posterity sake, but there's no need to live in a time capsule. They've been around for over 80 years and no one's found a modern use for them.

Don't get me wrong, my godfather's was a lifer at General Mills, and I can appreciate the historical aspect, but really, how much architectural significance does each have? (Maybe I'll let Admarc answer that). Do you really need to keep all of them? At the expense of growth of the city? The Seaway won't close anytime soon, so they won't be used anytime soon.

Now, if we were talking about tearing down the Central Terminal, I'd have more of a problem.who is talking "time capsule"? there is more than enough space to build around them. their footprint is comparatively small.

architectural significance is the least of my worries, btw. they are trying to replace the proud history of buffalo with some crap slapdash condos and a crappy casino.

those grain elevators are evidence of buffalo's majestic history, man... you gotta keep your roots somehow. that's all i'm saying. don't destroy the past. be proud of it.

:rockon:

[nehemiah]

This is a city that allowed what was arguably Frank Lloyd Wright's most famous building (OK, maybe second to Fallingwater), The Larkin Company HQ, to be demolished.:explode:

[THATHURMANATOR]

who is talking "time capsule"? there is more than enough space to build around them. their footprint is comparatively small.

architectural significance is the least of my worries, btw. they are trying to replace the proud history of buffalo with some crap slapdash condos and a crappy casino.

those grain elevators are evidence of buffalo's majestic history, man... you gotta keep your roots somehow. that's all i'm saying. don't destroy the past. be proud of it.

:rockon:

What do you suggest they do with Some old ass grain elevators? Who cares.. If they can make them into something else fine if not I could care less.

[Billsman]

We have a special guest in the Buffalo Central Terminal thread, Mike Miller.

[mshafer71]

Why couldnt Tim McVeigh put himself to better work and blow up the Skyway....would somebody with a screw loss and plenty of plastic explosive (I know your out there!) please do us all a favor and start demolishing some of this crap....Have you ever driven the 190 around downtown....the majority of the buildings are colored sandstone, about as bland as a cloudy day in March...even "newer" buildings like HSBC Tower are boring (I do like the M&T, designed by Yamasaki (sp?) who also designed the WTCs)....and have you ever noticed the lack of green space downtown, hardly any stately trees....to be sure, downtown looks better from a mile away.....Buffalo CAN improve itself, but a major problem in this town is its nepotism and more so croneyism..Did you know that we are one of the only cities of its size without professional management in City Hall....how do we ever move forward when we have people who have no concept/training/experience of public planning?....More and more areas of the city are being slowly "ghetto-ized" (Have you been down S. Park or Seneca in S. Buff. lately?)...when people say that "We want to move back to Buffalo", often times, they mean, OP, EA, Amherst, Clarence..and so on....AND THAT IS A MAJOR PROBLEM....because it creates two separate entities....Buffalo/suburbs.....most people in the burbs rarely go to the city, and when they do they cut right through it on the 33....oftentimes, the city/suburb dichotomy is meant to express racist undertones (black/white), with large sections of the pop. comfortably self-segregated while 35% live in poverty....SO...we have some problems....too many to list (But one that does come to mind: we are the only metropolitan area in the US who has two control boards...or how about this one, Buffalo has more Brownfield sites than any other city in America)......... many have moved away (can you say, "brain drain") while others have turned apathetic (how many times have ya heard, "That's Buffalo for ya.")...the population is aging meaning this place will continue to decrease in pop. and taxes.....I am born and raised and have lived all over the States...I now make my home back in the B'lo and want the best for the "old girl"......but we have to face facts and demand...I MEAN DEMAND change from our leaders and from ourselves...there is enough material here to write a book, but I'm sick of pretty pictures and glossy words....GIVE ME RESULTS.....p.s., alot of people put down Gallo's 'Buffalo '66" because it was an unappealing look at this city.....Gallo grew up here so he has as much right as anyone...to me, the first time I saw it in the antithesis city of Portland, OR, I left the theatre needing a droink...IT WAS THAT SOBERING AND SAD....but upon seeing it again, I think it serves as a film of promise and new beginnings...think of it...Gallo/Buffalo has made some bad decisions, receving a bad rap and hard times. All Gallo/Buffalo seems to want to do is self-destruct and put an end to the misery...but Gallo resurects himself....and so to can Buffalo.....NOW LETS KICK SOME ASS....and, oh, I know this is going to piss off a bunch of people but here goes anyways: screw HO OATS and a number of other derelict buildings...Yes, many (****, countless) should be saved, preserved, reused...YES...I AGREE....but have you ever really been to HO OATS....I worked in front of it for 2 years in the early 90s...what I saw was an bland, cold, crumbling mass of uninviting concrete and weather brick....not a tree in sight, no housing (except what HUD calls housing)...nothing...I live in the B'lo...I drive through the inner city all the time....I see the beautiful old buildings...and yes, they should be saved...YET...ANY PROFESSIONAL PLANNER WILL TELL YOU: to save a building you must first build community...and that's the killer in the B'lo...while there are a number of livable enclaves, most of the city is uninhabitable as of today (and what is frightening is that a lot of people live in these "uninhabitable" areas - how families on the east side want to live there...really?)....these communities need to be reborn which I think is attainable through nodal development:
----Create 30 nodal development zones in the city...link all mass transit to them...provide at each node a center (an inner-city center) where there is a transit station, grocery store, police precinct, library, community center....encourage through grants the expansion outward from the center through small business and housing loans...PROVIDE PROFESSIONAL GUIDANCE, TUTORING AND STRONG ADMINISTRATIVE MODELING.....plant trees (dont laugh...makes a HUGE difference....just go to main and utica and look east then west and tell me it's not like night and day due to trees alone), develop /restore small green spaces that are community managed
-----As for revitalizing downtown, I see 3 things straight off
1. encourage nodal development as is similiar to the creation and expansion of the Chippewa area
2. connect downtown better to allentown, theatre district, waterfront (demolish the Skyway), east and south
3. sink the 190 - like many cities during "urban renewal", highways were built right through the most beautiful areas...the 190 severs downtown from the waterfront...it would be expensive, but if you were to lower it and then "cap it" partially, you would open hundreds of acres to parks, shops, and commerce
k...my rant is over...FOR NOW....

[Billsman]

Wow, you need a few paragraph breaks thrown in there bro.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why couldnt Tim McVeigh put himself to better work and blow up the Skyway....would somebody with a screw loss and plenty of plastic explosive (I know your out there!) please do us all a favor and start demolishing some of this crap....Have you ever driven the 190 around downtown....the majority of the buildings are colored sandstone, about as bland as a cloudy day in March...even "newer" buildings like HSBC Tower are boring (I do like the M&T, designed by Yamasaki (sp?) who also designed the WTCs)....and have you ever noticed the lack of green space downtown, hardly any stately trees....to be sure, downtown looks better from a mile away.....Buffalo CAN improve itself, but a major problem in this town is its nepotism and more so croneyism..Did you know that we are one of the only cities of its size without professional management in City Hall....how do we ever move forward when we have people who have no concept/training/experience of public planning?....More and more areas of the city are being slowly "ghetto-ized" (Have you been down S. Park or Seneca in S. Buff. lately?)...when people say that "We want to move back to Buffalo", often times, they mean, OP, EA, Amherst, Clarence..and so on....AND THAT IS A MAJOR PROBLEM....because it creates two separate entities....Buffalo/suburbs.....most people in the burbs rarely go to the city, and when they do they cut right through it on the 33....oftentimes, the city/suburb dichotomy is meant to express racist undertones (black/white), with large sections of the pop. comfortably self-segregated while 35% live in poverty....SO...we have some problems....too many to list (But one that does come to mind: we are the only metropolitan area in the US who has two control boards...or how about this one, Buffalo has more Brownfield sites than any other city in America)......... many have moved away (can you say, "brain drain") while others have turned apathetic (how many times have ya heard, "That's Buffalo for ya.")...the population is aging meaning this place will continue to decrease in pop. and taxes.....I am born and raised and have lived all over the States...I now make my home back in the B'lo and want the best for the "old girl"......but we have to face facts and demand...I MEAN DEMAND change from our leaders and from ourselves...there is enough material here to write a book, but I'm sick of pretty pictures and glossy words....GIVE ME RESULTS.....p.s., alot of people put down Gallo's 'Buffalo '66" because it was an unappealing look at this city.....Gallo grew up here so he has as much right as anyone...to me, the first time I saw it in the antithesis city of Portland, OR, I left the theatre needing a droink...IT WAS THAT SOBERING AND SAD....but upon seeing it again, I think it serves as a film of promise and new beginnings...think of it...Gallo/Buffalo has made some bad decisions, receving a bad rap and hard times. All Gallo/Buffalo seems to want to do is self-destruct and put an end to the misery...but Gallo resurects himself....and so to can Buffalo.....NOW LETS KICK SOME ASS....and, oh, I know this is going to piss off a bunch of people but here goes anyways: screw HO OATS and a number of other derelict buildings...Yes, many (****, countless) should be saved, preserved, reused...YES...I AGREE....but have you ever really been to HO OATS....I worked in front of it for 2 years in the early 90s...what I saw was an bland, cold, crumbling mass of uninviting concrete and weather brick....not a tree in sight, no housing (except what HUD calls housing)...nothing...I live in the B'lo...I drive through the inner city all the time....I see the beautiful old buildings...and yes, they should be saved...YET...ANY PROFESSIONAL PLANNER WILL TELL YOU: to save a building you must first build community...and that's the killer in the B'lo...while there are a number of livable enclaves, most of the city is uninhabitable as of today (and what is frightening is that a lot of people live in these "uninhabitable" areas - how families on the east side want to live there...really?)....these communities need to be reborn which I think is attainable through nodal development:
----Create 30 nodal development zones in the city...link all mass transit to them...provide at each node a center (an inner-city center) where there is a transit station, grocery store, police precinct, library, community center....encourage through grants the expansion outward from the center through small business and housing loans...PROVIDE PROFESSIONAL GUIDANCE, TUTORING AND STRONG ADMINISTRATIVE MODELING.....plant trees (dont laugh...makes a HUGE difference....just go to main and utica and look east then west and tell me it's not like night and day due to trees alone), develop /restore small green spaces that are community managed
-----As for revitalizing downtown, I see 3 things straight off
1. encourage nodal development as is similiar to the creation and expansion of the Chippewa area
2. connect downtown better to allentown, theatre district, waterfront (demolish the Skyway), east and south
3. sink the 190 - like many cities during "urban renewal", highways were built right through the most beautiful areas...the 190 severs downtown from the waterfront...it would be expensive, but if you were to lower it and then "cap it" partially, you would open hundreds of acres to parks, shops, and commerce
k...my rant is over...FOR NOW....
Great post

[Billsman]

Any new news?

[shotgun]

not that i hurd of but i'll tell u this i can;t wate because when buffalo builds something to make people come here it would be great . i still think buffalo is the most beautiful city in the summer .... but can;t say to much about the wineters

[two4trippn]

I say give Donald a buzz and pitch a The Apprentice season 12 idea. He could buy all the property from Woodlawn North to the Aud and build the sh*t out of it. Create an indoor/outdoor waterpark, a subway system to connect downtown to Ridge Road, and an amplitheatre to keep concerts away from Darien and closer to those crazy Canucks.

[The REAL Sabres]

We can sell him the city. Call it Trumfalo.

[rob on the job]

We can sell him the city. Call it Trumfalo.

Fantastic idea.

Trump's hair is almost a spot-on match for a buffalo hide.

The city's new symbol would be a charging buffalo body topped with Trump's face.