Why is it that anytime anyone mentions Flutie, RJ gets bashed?

Inquiring minds want to know...

[billsfanone]

To irritate you. That's all.

Indeed!

Touche`!

:p

[shiva2999]

I know you'd like to think it's all about you, wys, but whether you're here or not, RJ still sucks.:D

So in essence gal, you're supporting the premise of the question!

Thanks, but I'd still like to know why!

I know why, I'm just curious if anyone will step up and admit it...

;)

I think we all know why, don't we! :laugh:

BTW, it was posed as a rhetorical question anyway...

Great to see so many great answers however...

Why do you close the car door on your fingers?

Is this a Christmas tradition in your family? lol

[Player6600]

this may be the dumbest thread ever.

Of course it is 666. Of course it's a great question w/ no one having answered it yet, and since it's true, I'm sure that's the way it has to be, eh! ;)

[RJbillsfan]

cuz you people who bash Flutie "think" RJ is a good QB

Could it be that it's the opposite?

That you people who bash RJ think Flutie's a good QB??

That makes tons more sense. Otherwise, if your supposition is true, you would see in every post criticizing Flutie something about RJ being so much better. You've heard the truth from me about RJ, and most others who support him as well. We all KNOW there are issues. We just see past the "paper hype" that made Flutie out to be a football QB god these past several years, largely due to his having been privileged to play behind the league's #1 D in '99!

Meanwhile, every time we beat some scrub team 16-13 on the merits of our D, since the O certainly wasn't responsible for it, the national media sang the "Praise Flutie" chorus that has been trilling ever since that "BC Hail Mary" pass has been replayed on TV thousands of times!

Well, those singers are getting a little hoarse now, and well, the music is starting to come through w/o all the "special effects" making it sound like Pavarotti, and it's starting to sound a little more like a choir consisting of people w/ larygitis!

Ergo, we bash Flutie b/c HE sucks! Not for ANY other reason, and we just don't understand how a QB that did so little in leading HIS offenses to POINTS, got SO MUCH of the credit for beating the WORST teams in the league by scoring 13-17 points against them when any decent offensive unit should have put up 24+ each time.

[RJbillsfan]

same for RJ never seen such a lousy QB get so many chances

Well, OK! But he played well in '98 and '99 given the chance! He also played pretty well last year against mostly playoff teams and teams w/ very good Ds. Unfortunately he didn't have the opportunity that Flutie had to play w/ the #1 D all of one season and consistently win games w/ 13 or 16 points on the boards and then get credit for being a winner.

Nor do I think that this year's opportunity behind a makeshift OL that frankly should be banned from playing together in this league, was a "fair" chance. But hey, a difference of opinion, eh!

Funny how Van Pelt is given a pass and we're told he plays marvelously by some of you RJ haters, even though he contributes so little in most games except to throw game changing INTs or have a game turning fumble. Before, we "were gonna see how bad RJ was and that it wasn't the OL when Van Pelt started winning games!" NOW, he's done NO BETTER despite having a MUCH BETTER OL and a team that's half a season into all it's changes. He's 1-5, RJ's 1-6. Yet, you'd rather have Van Pelt than RJ. Makes no sense to me given that RJ's upside is much better.

I've never seen so many people say a QB (Van Pelt) is any good and give him credit for 30 points when in FACT, he MAY have contributed to 10 of them. Unbelieveable!

[RJbillsfan]

well i wasnt one of those bragging about Van Pelt. I was hoping he would do better tho.

But his record isn't better than RJ. People were hoping it would be better. But its not and the Bills problems don't stop at the QB.

That's my point exactly! So if he hasn't in fact done better, and he's played under MORE favorable conditions, couldn't we then draw the conclusion that RJ's better than Van Pelt? If so, and we add in a little for the fact that this all was FAR newer to RJ than it was for Van Pelt on top of it all, aren't you, or isn't anyone else curious to see how and if he continues to improve next year? I am. Like I said, I'm sure there's a way to work out a contract where it wouldn't hurt us anymore at the end of next season to cut him if he doesn't improve significantly, than it would at the end of this one, and at a time when we will be less pressed to meet cap demands.

Frankly, I don't even think the Bills problems begin at the QB. I think 90% of the Bills' entire woes are due to not having a solid DT opposite Williams (30%) and 60% having the crap OL that we have. 1 solid DT and 4 OL-men (2 from FA and 2 drafted) will fix our problems and make us a contender next season.

We have all we need at the skill positions on O and we have a solid secondary and excellent LBs, even w/o Cowart.

[RJbillsfan]

RJ has been around for 7 years right? he should get it by now.

No i am not going to say RJ is better than Van Pelt..i'm not even sure he is better than Collins. Van Pelt isnt great either.

there is no perfect team in the NFL ..evey team has its weaknesses and the QB has to work with what he's got (with in reason)

RJ would be a good QB on a perfect team with perfect O-Line and perfect D...so would Van Pelt,Leaf, Collins and who ever else sucks

Rob's started and finished a combined total of 1 (prior to '98), 4 ('98), 2 ('99), 9 ('00), and 7 ('01) for a GRAND TOTAL of:

23 GAMES!!!

THAT'S what you mean by 7 seasons!?

[RJbillsfan]

hey don't freak out now....

okay 23 games...how many were wins even lousy wins?
you compare him to Van Pelt how many has Van Pelt played? I dont know but i'm sure you can find out :)

alot of RJ supporters are now saying they realize he isnt as good as they expected him to be. I all ready knew this but i'm not gloating about it. Why the hell should that make me happy? I just want the Bills to win.

you feel sorry for RJ admit it! I felt sorry for Flutie...

Just curious.....when you watch the superbowl and the Bills are not in it....do you root for the under dog?

No! Depends on the team. If it's a bunch of dirtbags like Dallas or Miami, then I don't. Also, if it's a team like Baltimore who got there last year primarily by having a H.S. schedule, then I usually root for the team that truly fought to get there.

I only feel sorry for Rob inasmuch as he was unjustly COMPARED to Flutie, a media and pop icon. That's it! NOT for his own shortcomings. He's got to learn to not run headlong into LBs and cause himself to get hurt and how to avoid sacks. But I also don't think those affect his performances as much as you make it out to be. Now if he thru INTs w/ the frequency of Van Pelt, then I'd be more concerned.

Of the 23 games,

1 prior to '98 was a win.

2-2 in '98 (1 loss was w/ 33 offensive points on the boards vs. St.Louis)

1-1 in '99 (Tennessee HRTB the loss)

4-5 in '00

and 1-6 this year.

Can't you see a correlation here! Obviously something happened between this year and last that caused this downturn.

He was 8-8 prior to this year and of those 16 games, 9 of them were vs. playoff teams all w/ double digit wins in their given years and with an average record of 11.5-4.5.

I'd say that was pretty good considering that Doug got his rep playing very few playoff teams, and the ones he did were the weakest PO teams in those years for the most part. That's the comparison that I feel sorry for Rob about.

[RJbillsfan]

okay fair enough and there are reasons i felt sorry for Flutie but i dont want to get into that.... its Irrelevant to our Bills right now since he is gone and i am ready to move on

the reason i asked about the underdog is because i think you lean the way i do as far as sticking up for something we find unjust... you feel sorry for RJ and i for Flutie they are both underdogs in thier own way...

i rooted for Baltimore last year...but dont care for them now
what is your take on them cutting Trent after they win a SB? I feel bad for him too.

I don't feel sorry for anyone making $5M/yr. Really! I very TRULY think RJ has some very serious talent and will put it together, but I also think that he's been unfairly criticized this year behind a team on which Warner, Gannon, or Garcia wouldn't have done jack.

I mean that. Think about it! If Warner wouldn't have played well on this team this year, then why, oh why, have we evaluated RJ in a lose-lose situation? THAT'S what I think is unfair coupled w/ what I said before. But it's a good question deserving of an answer. Our OL sucked so bad at the beginning of this year that RJ was set up for failure. People SAY that we can't blame the QB for everything, but THEN they DO! Go figure...

I have very little concern for RJ. Actually I think he'd probably do much better elsewhere, but I think he can be an oustanding QB for the Bills, and I'd like to see one last shot at him before we cut him, JUST IN CASE all the RJ haters, and his detractors, are wrong! It is very likely that they are. Many of them thought Flutie was awesome, and he's played EXACTLY as I said he would this year. Why could I see that and yet none of them did? Is it not possible that I'm correct about RJ and since they were so horribly off before, that they're horribly off again. The odds are on my side! ;)

[RJbillsfan]

WRONG! your only 50% right! alot of people are now admiting they were wrong abour RJ you can too...BUT only when your ready! :)

if you cant blame RJ for all of the BIlls loses...you cant blame Flutie for all the loses over in SD...they were 1-15 last year which means they also have problems way more than the QB perhaps even worse than Buffalo who didnt go 1-15 last year....its a team game right? this doesnt apply ONLY to RJ.....

how ever BOTH of them could use alot of improvements. because although QB's dont play alone they DO make a difference...so with better performance we would see a "slight" better record even with problems o-line,D etc...

Ya say Gannon couldnt do better in Buffalo than RJ? i disagree..i'm sure he would do better in SD as well...he is a better QB than RJ and Flutie..but that doesn't mean that with the other problems on both teams he would be doing as well as he is now with the Raiders

[ithacapeter]

RJ's days in Buffalo are over. No way is he going to give back any money to continue here.

He wants a new start and likely will get it, although I bet he's gonna have to produce on the field before any team gives him the big bucks.

Personally, I think we won't ever see him again as a starting quarterback in the NFL which is a reflection on his inability to play the position.

He ought to become a wide receiver.

"alot of people are now admiting they were wrong abour RJ you can too..."

"alot of people" never get past the "headlines" and certainly never do any of their own analysis or even admit what Donahoe has openly stated, that the play of the OL was much worse while Rob was in there than when Van Pelt took the field as the starter.

"alot of people" ALSO said that Flutie was a winner WHILE I was one of the few lone voices in the wilderness getting ridiculed for saying he was highly overrated. He plays like he is 29 we told. He's a winner. Well, I stuck to my guns and insisted that he'll do nothing better than he did while he was in Buffalo. Actually, he played better than he did here, he just didn't have a schedule full of crud teams and a #1 D to "help" him win his games! I was 100% correct there even though "alot of people" disagreed!

Besides, I was somewhat put at ease w/ the emergence of Brown on Sunday. He played so poised and in command that I don't see how we can avoid playing him some more just to find out what he can do. If that had been against a cruddy team out of PO contention, then it would have been different.

I just don't want to leave us high-and-dry at the QB position for several years. I'll stand by my position of desiring to see at least another 8 games out of him behind a decent OL before I come to a full and final conclusion. Also, you seem to ignore the fact that I've expressed concerns about his play as well. The big difference between me and everyone else is that I think most of it was due to having to play behind an OL that for several games had 4 of its 5 starters have a combined total of only 16 NFL starts AMONG them!

Van Pelt did no better, he did about the same behind a much better OL, w/ half a season of chemistry under our belts after the most tumultuous offseason in the team's history, and a running game that gave him almost twice the output from the RBs than Rob got!

You say that doesn't make a difference, I do! If the tables had been turned and Van Pelt had had to start the year, I highly doubt he would have won a single game w/ that. He's already proven he can't dominate a game in the absence of those things. I'm sure if the roles had been reversed, you and everyone else who is saying that Van Pelt is just as good as RJ would be making excuses left and right based on exactly the same premises!

Of course you won't admit that.

[RJbillsfan]

"alot of people " who were not Flutie fans have jumped off the RJ wagon because they are tired of waiting for his "potential"!!! give it up allready!!!!..well your not ready yet! :)

Artic is no "flutie Flake" as you would say and he's had enough of Rob as so have other intelligent fans.

You and one other guy are the last ones... :)

but enough of that we do agree on something Wys lets focus on Travis Brown..I hope he turns out to really help this team! i was impressed with how he handled his first few snaps with the Bills. he's young he may have a bright future with the Bills

"Of course you won't admit that."
why not? i never said Van Pelt was the savior! he is a good team player a nice back up player. glad he is with the Bills... he doesnt seem to have an inflated ego he accepts any place he has with the Bills no?

[Player6600]

Originally posted by wyswings
No! Depends on the team. If it's a bunch of dirtbags like Dallas or Miami, then I don't. Also, if it's a team like Baltimore who got there last year primarily by having a H.S. schedule, then I usually root for the team that truly fought to get there.

I only feel sorry for Rob inasmuch as he was unjustly COMPARED to Flutie, a media and pop icon. That's it! NOT for his own shortcomings. He's got to learn to not run headlong into LBs and cause himself to get hurt and how to avoid sacks. But I also don't think those affect his performances as much as you make it out to be. Now if he thru INTs w/ the frequency of Van Pelt, then I'd be more concerned.

Of the 23 games,

1 prior to '98 was a win.

2-2 in '98 (1 loss was w/ 33 offensive points on the boards vs. St.Louis)

1-1 in '99 (Tennessee HRTB the loss)

4-5 in '00

and 1-6 this year.

Can't you see a correlation here! Obviously something happened between this year and last that caused this downturn.

He was 8-8 prior to this year and of those 16 games, 9 of them were vs. playoff teams all w/ double digit wins in their given years and with an average record of 11.5-4.5.

I'd say that was pretty good considering that Doug got his rep playing very few playoff teams, and the ones he did were the weakest PO teams in those years for the most part. That's the comparison that I feel sorry for Rob about.

That stat is BULL he should be 3-5 in '00 you're counting the game he was injured and Flutie came in and one it in OT. 3-5, plus gets injured last year is awful. 1-6 this year is awful. 1 win in '98 and gets injured is AWFUL.

[billsfanone]

Some people don't even watch the games. They just go by what they hear or read. Or, by stats.

I don't think there are too many people that "watched" RJ over the years who think he is any good. Why does the O line "always" play terrible when he is in.

[ithacapeter]

Word has the Bills are asking RJ to take a $4 million hit.

Ouch. Can you Seeeaaaaauuuuuuuuu.

And his biggest and most important benfactor has declared that even if he is willing to renegotiate his contract, that he isn't automatically going to be the starter.

RJ's gone. The system works. Charlatans are ultimately always unmasked.

[bills_phan]

Preach on, Brother!!! :hammerhea

[BogusTrumper]

Doug. I'm stupid. You'll have to explain it to me. How am I bashing myself if I bash my own quarterback?

[DannyBoy]

I have to really wonder about soemone who quotes Adam Sandler or anyone, for that matter, in or from "The Wedding Singer". What about Patton, True Grit, Dirty Harry, Forrest Gump.

Go ahead.......Make my Day. Do you Feel Lucky?,....Well Do You?

The Cowboys. Scent Of A Woman. :thumb: :thumb:

[Dennisdread]

RJ gets bashed because he sucks, Flutie or no.

[Dennisdread]

One other thing, to compare Rob johnson to Alex van Pelt is automatically a loss for Rob Johnson, as he has much more physical talent than Van Pelt. But quarterbacks have to think too. To say Rob Johnson lost games because he played tough opponents in not really defending him either, it's actually damning him. Rob has one loss on his ledger than is not his fault though, that Rams thing in Buffalo was due to a collapse of the defense. The only problem is that Johnson has not consistently played to the level he played in the Rams game. His 0-line has been porous true, but you know, you GOTTA MAKE DO! Flutie made things happen, despite being short, old and weak-armed. I almost buy the #1 defense argument, but that means that Johnson should have ridden them to victory as well, but he didn't. Please explain that. And finally for goodness sakes stop excusing the guys poor play, if he didn't do the job, he didn't do it, JUST SAY THAT, life would be easier for us all.