divisional opponents!!!

[bduff54]

does anyone know RJ's record against divisional opponents, i've always felt he played poorly in division matchups, wys you got that stat somewhere?

[TacklingDummyRJ]

The Rob lead Bills only beaten Indy inside our division. Since this is Indy's last year in our division, the Rob lead Bills have never beaten a AFC EAST team.

Rob aginst the AFC East..........

14 Games 164 Comp 289 Att. 2025 yards 9TD's 9 Int. 51 Sacks for 315 yards and 7 fumbles. 46 Rushes for 324 yards 0 TD's. 76 QB Rating.
Take away the 1 meaningless game against Indy and they be much worse.


Or you talking individual?

Against Miami
3 Games 27 of 62 356 yards 1 TD 3 Int. 18 sacks for 183 yards, 47.5 QB Rating.

[bduff54]

that 's enough for me. goodbye rob, i don't care if you can play well against tampa i nthe nice weather if you can't beat our divisional opponents here in the arctic you deserve to go. goodbye:)

Well, I think if those teams were that easy to play against then the Flutie-meister would have turned some good performances! Unfortunately for that defense, he sucked twice as bad as Rob did in those games.

Therefore, one of two things is true here:

Flutie is worse than Rob! or;

There is ANOTHER REASON OTHER THAN SIMPLY THE QB why we played so bad!


You CAN'T have it both ways although you think you can!


Rob played Miami in '98, Indy in '99, the Jets once, Indy twice, and Miami twice in '00, and Indy twice and N.E. once this year.

He played exceptionally well vs. Indy in '99. OK vs. Miami in '98. Well vs. the Jets (better than Flutie played them in his game) in '00, Sucked vs. Miami twice in '00 and one time vs. Indy in '00. The first Indy game he was OK in. Vs. Indy twice this year he was OK in one game and average in the other. He played poorly vs. N.E. this year.

In both Indy games this year he played better than VP has in two of his games!

Before this year, of the 7 divisional games that Rob played in, 6 of them were playoff teams in that year.

[TacklingDummyRJ]

Originally posted by wyswings
Well, I think if those teams were that easy to play against then the Flutie-meister would have turned some good performances! Unfortunately for that defense, he sucked twice as bad as Rob did in those games.


Umm Wings, you might want to check Flutie stats against the AFC East. He was i beleive 7-3 against the East and never lost to Miami during the season. (3-0)

Carreer against the East (Includes, Buffalo,Chicago,NE,and SD)
22 games 334 of 607, 4288 yards 22 TD 12 Int., 93 rushes 459 yards, 2TDs, 27 sacks, 81.2 QB rating.

Flutie by far is better against the East then Johnson. But it doesnt matter anymore.

And the fact that N.E. was a large part of those wins and was NEVER a playoff team and was by-and-large the weakest team in the division doesn't seem to matter now, does it!

At least Rob, even this year, scored more points against better AFC East rivals in losses than Flutie did vs. WEAK N.E. during his.

And don't look at me anymore for bringing Flutie into threads! I only brought him up as a gauge for comparison in the same exact game, vs. the same exact team, on the same exact day, w/ the same exact team, etc. You didn't! You're comparing games in which Flutie played a non-playoff team, one that sucked quite frankly, even Miami in '98 was all banged up in that second game, to games that Rob played against bonafide Playoff opponents.

I really don't want to discuss Flutie! But since you do, maybe you can explain to us why he played even worse than Rob vs. Miami twice last year, and vs. Tampa Bay when the game was still very much winable when he came into it?

I know I won't be hearin' from you on that, so there's really not much point in continuing.

So is Flutie the standard again for QB play vs. the AFC EAST?

I'm sure he won't be after I post the stats:

Flutie couldn't beat AFC East playoff opponents either, anymore frequently than Rob did.

In '98 he was 4-3 vs. the East, w/ 3 of his 4 wins vs. N.E. (1) and Indy (2) who were both non-playoff teams that year. He beat Miami in the ONLY decent game that he's ever had vs. an AFC East playoff team!

He got DUSTED by the Jets in two games in '98, the ONLY other AFC East playoff team he's faced. He was like 35% complete for under 400 yards, 1 TD and 3 INTs in BOTH games vs. the Jets. He also lost to a mediocre N.E. team.

In '99 he only played one AFC East playoff opponent and lost to Indy in that game. RJ beat the same Indy team later in the year. Yes, he was 5-2, but again, if you want to compare performances to RJ, then maybe you had better take into consideration that just about every AFC East team that Rob faced was a playoff team in the year he faced them, and Flutie again was 0-1 in '99 vs. AFC East playoff teams w/ approximately 50% complete, 1 TD, and 2 INTs. I think Rob could have done that too!

Last year, '00, Flutie was 2-1 vs. AFC East teams, and none of them were playoff teams. He beat the Jets and N.E. and lost to N.E., with offensive production of 16, 16, and 10 points in those games respectfully!

If it doesn't matter anymore, then don't ask or challenge...

Rob's played 5 playoff teams in his 6 games vs. AFC East opponents in the last 3 seasons before this one.

But I don't think it's fair, and everyone obviously disagrees, that to compare a bunch of games that Doug played against non-playoff divisional teams, to just about all divisional playoff teams that Rob played, and quite frankly led our O to more points in most of those games than Flutie did in wins vs. much weaker opponents.

But, I guess that's just one of those things I'll have to be happy to take to my grave...

;)

BTW, that got me thinking;

That means that out of Flutie's 21-9, 11 wins of it was against weak non-playoff divisional opponents...

and,

in 2 of 3 games vs. playoff bound divisional opponents, he was 1-2.

[TacklingDummyRJ]

That means that out of Flutie's 21-9, 11 wins of it was against weak non-playoff divisional opponents...

He didn't win 11 games against the AFC East, better think again. It was 7 maybe 8. And 3 of the wins were against the playoff bound Dolpfins. Hardly weak.

I'll finish the rest of the book tomorrow.:D

[TacklingDummyRJ]

P.S.

I know it doesn't mean much to you but why is it RJ has 289 pass attempts vs. The AFC East with 51 sacks with a sack ratio of 1 in every 5.5 times he attempts a pass

and

the former midget with 607 (over double) pass attempts against the AFC East and only 27 sacks, with a sack ratio of 1 in every 22 he attempts a pass?

or

Alex Van Pelt, 123 pass attempts vs. the AFC East with only 7 sacks, with a sack ratio of 1 in every 17 pass attempts?

Im gonna sleep on it. See ya. ;)

I can't sleep right now for some reason. Went to bed at ~9, and woke up again at around midnight. Oh well...

You're wrong;

Flutie was 4-3 vs. divisional opponents in '98

5-2 in '99

2-1 in '00

for a combined 11-6. That's over half of his 21 wins all but one was it, vs. non-playoff divisional opponents.


"why is it RJ has 289 pass attempts vs. The AFC East with 51 sacks with a sack ratio of 1 in every 5.5 times he attempts a pass"

Because he can't seem to avoid sacks! ???

I am just not of the theory that "lack of sacks" are the most important thing. Sure, it's something that will hinder his performances and possibly be a factor in wins and losses to an extent. But I'd rather see 4 sacks each week w/ 0 or only 1 INT than 2 sacks w/ 1-3 INTs.

If there's one thing that VP has demonstrated, it's that he's pretty much good for at least 1 INT/game.

All this stuff works into the bigger picture. It's impossible to boil the worth of a QB down to sacks. The midget proved that this year. He's averaging less than 1 sack per game, yet they continue to lose. In a couple of his losses he had 0 sacks! If they were the sole and determining factor in the effectiveness of a QB, then S.D.'d be winning.

How about looking at INTs instead. RJ doesn't make very many of those. Sure there's the "bad game" scenario such as the N.O. game this year w/ 3 INTs, but generally Rob only throws an INT every other game or so. That's gotta be near tops in the league for INT %. I think that 1 INT is worth AT LEAST 2 sacks, possibly more depending upon the circumstances of the sacks.

A QB w/ a strong arm can easily overcome a sack on 1st and 10 or even on 2nd and medium. An INT not only definitively halts one of your drives dead in it's tracks, it also possibly sets the other team up for an easy score as well. No matter how you slice it, it gives momentum back to the other team.

In all his time in Buffalo, Rob has thrown 24 TDs to 12 INTs.

Before this season w/ the crap hand he was dealt early on w/ the injuries and all the other 'stuff' being new and all, he was 19 TDs and only 5 INTs.

I think that's pretty good, don't you?

Either way, up until this season included, that's a INT % of around 2.5 for Rob. Even including this season, he's under 3%.

For purposes of comparison and contrast, ...

VP's is about 5.5% including this season for all of his NFL play.

But Rob ranks very well in that category.

[bduff54]

wys, why are you doing that? i was not asking for a flutie/johnson comparison. i wanted rob's stats. why do you have to bring up flutie. was it his faul that rob has won only one divisional game?

Why? Because once again, TD brought up sacks as the most important part of a QB's #s!

I'm just trying to point out that sacks may even be so much as meaningless if on the same drive a first down is achieved subsequent to the sack, and at the same time point out that perhaps we should look at INTs which ALWAYS damage the team!

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a few more sacks than an INT. Even if a sack does end a drive, you can always punt. An INT sometimes is returned for a TD even.

So all other things being about equal, if I had the choice of the QB who throws for 2 TDs and has 4 or 5 sacks, but only 0-1 INTs, or the QB who throws for 2 TDs and has only 2 sacks, but tosses at least 1 INT a game on average and sometimes 2 or 3, I'd take the first one!

Of course I don't expect anyone else to agree since that actually means acknowledging that RJ does have some positives. And finding anything positive about RJ is not the idea here as anyone can easily see. We are seeking to destroy and damage him beyond repair and make him appear to have NO skills worthy of making him an NFL QB.

[bduff54]

rob johnson has skill coming out of his assm to obad he dosen't know how to use them.

Great post duff! Glad to see that you're finally looking at things objectively...

:rolleyes:

[bduff54]

what was wrong with that, is it not true?

[Player6600]

WYS-A sack here or there is fine, but it happens too much and probably costs us a lot of points. I saw one game where on the Bills first 5 drives RJ was sacked on every one of them 2 we had three we had topunt away, 1 we got a field goal, one he fumbled. On those three sacks we could have put ourselves in scoring range, but since we had 3rd and long instead of 3rd and short we had to punt the ball away. It really hurts a team when it happens on a consistent basis. 3rd-down conversion aren't that easy, but 3rd-long is just makes it too difficult.