How many Flutie fans ...

[naeliac]

are women, Democrats, environmentalists or more of the same? How many have disabled children, or think someone is a hero for having disabled children? Most importantly, how many are short and resent tall (and therefore better) people? I have not ever met a Flutie fan who did not fit any of the above. The ones I meet are mostly Canadian (and wishy washy liberal envirogoons) who worship their government and like Flutie because he just wins.

[eyedog]

well they better find something to replace that winning part.

[bduff54]

why wouldn't canadians love him?

[bills_phan]

It's required for Canadians to love him. He's Canadian after all...oh, no...wait a minute...no he's not...hmmmmm...maybe canadians don't know any better...

[bduff54]

maybe because he was one of the best players ever to play in the CFL, so ignornt.

[naeliac]

I really think there is a social-political split in Flutie/non Flute fans. Football people are pretty much yeah or nay on him, so I think it is a different thing. The general media (and if you think it is bad in the US, Canadian media are barely short of annointing him as the son of God) love him and in general they are left of (left of) center.

[bills_phan]

maybe because he was one of the best players ever to play in the CFL, so ignornt.

That should tell you all you need to know about the quality of players that play in the CFL - can't even win a playoff game in a real league.

[MVDaBomb]

He became my favorite analyst (tied w/ Ron Jaworski) when he correctly predicted Eric Moulds' breakout season before '98.

But regardless of whether you like him or not, he's clearly one of the more objective anaylsts around if nothing else.

"Doug Flutie--All he does is..LOSE? He threw 2 int's, but I'm sure none of it was his fault".

What a classic -- I'd post more of his quotes every week but I always forget.

Yeah, Flutie has an eerie cult-following that makes him larger than the team he's on and in some instances than the NFL itself, coupled w/ an unprecedented immunity to criticism or blame!

I think after S.D. drops 3 or all 4 of its remaining games, things may change somewhat. Of course they'll be 2 excuses for every criticism launched at or about him.

It's truly unbelieveable! I can honestly say I've NEVER seen anything like it in pro sports before. All I can think is that HE was the CFL for all the years he was in it. I don't know since I don't live in Canada nor was I ever very attune to the CFL. Otherwise how do we explain all the Canadians coming down to be Bills fans, which is certainly understandable, but now Charger fans. A huge number of Charger fans from Ontario Canada?? It is befuddling.

I will tell you why I liked the guy.

I always got the feeling that he not only wanted his team to win but that he expected them to win. As a fan in the seats you always thought the team was going to win. I like that determination. I am sure Rob wanted to win also but I never really got that feeling watching him. I am not talking about the way he played, the guy took all the hits anyone could for a team, but he comes across when he talks at the end of the game as it is no big deal. And I think that is what hurt he with a lot of the fans. I am sure he did care, it is just too bad you really couldn't see that.

Did Flutie get upset when he wasn't playing? I sure hope so, I am sure Rob did too, as all pros should.


Understand this I never agreed with Fluties politics or a lot of what he did but I did think he always wanted the team to win with everything in himself.

Have a great day

[BogusTrumper]

What are Flutie's politics?

[bduff54]

"couldn't win a playoff game" he only palayed in one, and could have won the other one if the worst decision in sports history hadn't been made. i agree the CFL does suck, but tht dosen't mean candaians shouldn't like him. he did a lot for the communities he played in and wasa good ambassador for the league. what do you know anyway?

"...could have won the other one..."

What's your basis for that? Tennessee had a raging D the last third of the season. I mean if the Baltimore game that year was any indication you couldn't be more wrong... ;)

Also,

dou45, the guest at the top of this page, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that RJ was indifferent towards winning, which isn't exactly what you said, but that's kind of what was implied.

I think ALL QBs want to win. I know that every time I step out onto a field, whether it's soccer, B-ball, football, tennis, or whatever, I want to win and I expect to win. That's strictly your opinion so to use it as a concrete difference in explaining why Flutie was better than Rob is errant.

I mean I saw more heart out of Rob than I've seen from MANY QBs in last year's T.B. game, the K.C. game, and this year's S.D. game. Those three games alone are enough to disqualify your statement. ;)

[bills_phan]

Didn't you know, Wys - Flutie would have stopped that trick special teams play if he had started instead of RJ...

[bduff54]

there is one thing i know for sure. doug flutie deserved to start that playoff game and thats a fact that none of you can deny. and another thing, i can guarantte you that flutie would have escaped from the grasps of jevon kearse atleast once. but i can't say that we would have won with him in there, but i can't say that johnson was incredible either.

Fair enough duff, but why are we blaming and holding it against RJ when Phillips was a dunce. No, make that DUNCE! lol

Frankly duff, you think Flutie deserved to start in that game, I think RJ certainly played well enough to get his staring job back in '98 after 2 games. It was this "winning" thing that prevented it. Flutie hadnt' played any better in games vs. Jax and Indy that Rob had vs. S.F. and St. Louis. The St. Louis loss was blamed on him. He lost to Miami the week before but they were one of the toughest, if not the toughest D in the league that year. They got banged up later that year, but at the beginning of the season they were tough.

phan,

Yeah, I know bud! You're preachin' to the choir here.

Doug,

I agree w/ you to an extent, but he has improved in that department and I think that's significant.

[bduff54]

wys, the difference is were not talking about 98. sure johnson may have deserved his job back in 98, but there is no way that justifies pulling your starting QB in the playoffs?

[MVDaBomb]

Originally posted by bduff54
"couldn't win a playoff game" he only palayed in one

When did the '86 playoff game get removed from the record books when the DEFENDING SB CHAMPIONS LOST AT HOME to the Redskins?

[bduff54]

he played in a playoff game for the bears? is that what your saying? i didn't know that, ok 2. what happened to mcmahon?

[bduff54]

he just needs to be consistent, whether or not that will happen here or not, who knows?

[Cathochic]

Flutie ticked me off when he played drums for Hillary Clinton.

Kelly tried championing the conservative cause, but alas we had a weak candidate.

gotta love kelly!

must be flutie liked that socialist health care system up there!

[bduff54]

who cares about politics this is a football board.

[Cathochic]

I was just continuing the train of thought... no need to be testy!

Anyway, the main mistake in the Flutie/Johnson thing was made by the front office and coaching at the time. They should have never let it go that far. On both sides of the issue (whether you are a Johnson or Flutie fan) you see your favorite player maligned (which whas happening to both) and you get mad. Thoughout that time, neither QB was truly being treated as a starter. In the meantime, because all the attention was being paid to that whole thing, the problems on the O-Line were not being addressed. Now, with cap issues weakening our defense, our low-scoring offense cannot win games on its own. (last year, by and large, our wins rode the coat tails of Defensive play).

[bduff54]

good post, exactly. what do you feel is the next step? i think we should get rid of johnson not because of his play but because i feel that evryone would benefit from a fresh start at that position. the fans, the players, the media, everybody.

[Cathochic]

I had to break this up...

Since then, our atrophied mass media has decided that QB contraversies can sell newspapers and increase newscast ratings. So, instead of reporting things honestly, they still inflate this issue beyond its usefullness.

It is unfortunate that we are so polarized.

We should rebuild our O-Line, increase our run game, restructure Johnson's contract to see what he can do next year, and keep Van Pelt too. If clearer heads prevail and this happens, we could have a good year next year. The Defense can gel, we can add a few more people to them too, and create a well-balanced team.

[Cathochic]

I also think if Johnson sacrifices some cash for the team's good, he could increase some fan support. I also think if the Bills Org can reign in some of these media people (by restricting their access) that might help too.

[bduff54]

i agree with everything except for the johnson thing, i used to really support him but now i just don't think he deserves another shot. he has already cost our team too much money.

It's hard to argue that he's even earned a tenth of what he's been paid over the last 4 years.

Giving money back would certainly bring all of the anti-RJ people around to at least having a little respect for him.

[BogusTrumper]

You Nazis. Let's run everyone who doesn't agree with Cathochic out of town.

Bduff, you show a lot of wisdom. RJ hasn't earned any of the money that he's been paid. He needs to go. It isn't going to work out for him in Buffalo. Unfortunately the FO is going to make their decision based on money again and they will probably extend his contract a year. Too bad. We might as well bring in a new QB right now.

And why would restructuring RJ's contract make our defense gel?

In what way has the mass media atrophied? To me, it seems bigger than ever. What the hell do you mean?

[junglesouljah]

"The Bills Make Me Wanna Smoke! ", Yes bills_phan, bun da ganja!!! Hold up your hand if you's a ganja man

Big up all the ganja massive

[McBill]

Thanks for sharing, Catholic. I like that picture better thab the Wysboy cartoon - everytime i see that kid I get the heebeejeebies...switch to somethin else, Wys - I would enjoy something more in the Renoir vein, perhaps.

I agree that the Bills organization seriously mishandled the whole RJ/DF issue. A professional outfit such as an NFL team should understand these issues and deal with them quickly and appropriately. Oh, well.

McBill

LONG LIVE AVP ( as long as he is our starter ) UNTIL OUR NEXT QB!:cool:

[junglesouljah]

Have you seen the cartoon Family Guy? Stuey is the little baby character that's always scheming up plans to concur the world, it's a really funny show. Wys do you watch Family guy?

So duff and Stills,

Your suggestion is that we go w/ an unproven rookie who doesn't earn any of his salary? Not me...

Besides, RJ will perform IF we get some OL and he's proved himself in many games, you guys just won't admit it. If we don't get at least 3 more OL-men who can play in the NFL, then if I'm RJ I politely say "I don't think this is gonna work" and make up some cocamamy excuse as to why I don't think it in either the team's or my best interests to play here anymore.

One thing I don't want is for him to be set up for failure next year. He's already gotten screwed through varying scenarios that had little to do w/ himself.


souljah,

Family Guy is HILARIOUS!!! Stewy absolutely makes that show!

Anyone wanna wager some wing sauce that Flutie and the S.D. Offense don't score a single TD vs. Philly this week?

No TDs FOR THE OFFENSE for drives starting outside the red zone would be the wager...

My wing sauce up against other delicacies that you know of or another arrangement...

e-mail me if interested...

[junglesouljah]

BogusTrumper, has Fina earned his money? how about Ostroski? how about Cowart? How about Irvin? None of the above players have earned the money they have been given but everyone's critical of the money Johnosn makes. If youring going to be critical of players not living up to expections, then why not adress everyone instead of conviently singling one person out? Cowart been injured the last two years and hasn't played a full season since 3 years ago, Does this mean he is injury prone and a wimp? I'm sure Fina and Ostroski are worth the $5 million/yr there making. RJ has said that he is willing to restructure his contract to come back. He knows that the oline must be improved for this offense to have any chance at running smoothly next year. As much as some people want RJ to be the scapegoat for the offense, it is clear to see that the oline strugles to get a push in the run game, thus not allowing the bills to establish anything resembling a running game. The oline gets beat in pass protection and dosn't allow any time for the qb to make reads, set up, and throw. Football is won in the trench's, you can have all pro at every other position but if your oline's struggling than your whole offense will strugle. The oline is just that important.

wyswings, have you seen Futurama? It Matt Greonings new project. There's a alcholic robot character that is hilarious.

[Cathochic]

My point is, that if we concentrate our efforts, personnel-wise, on what really needs to be addressed, then we can improve our team. Johnson is no Kelly, but he is workable behind a decent line. He can also make plays rushing, which is an underestimated quality. I also think that his progressing through reads can improve if he is not thinking, "I've got to run for my life." A porus line like ours would frazzle anybody. When you are anticipating the imminent collapse, the concentration isn't there. We saw that this week with Van Pelt. He was hard on himself, but I can see that he was trying his best to make something, anything, happen. I think the only difference this week, if Johnson was in there, would have been his rushing. As far as helping the defense goes, we need to have the cap room to keep our good players and maybe sign a few more good ones. The defense also needs not to be on the field so much, and a better offense would help that. It all relates!

[eyedog]

good take jungle... you hit the problem right on the head. now if the bills f.o. can fiqure that out, along with many people on this board, we can get this team heading back in the right direction.

so thats what rude looks like.

[BogusTrumper]

Jungle, it's just that RJ makes so much more than the others. And on the whole he's been a failure in Buffalo. I really think he needs a new start somewhere else. Chic, there's only so much you can do with the savings from restructuring RJ's contract. Obviously we need to address the OL so how much would be left for beefing up the Defense?

Actually Bogus,

RJ doesn't make "so much" more, he makes a little more!

$4M; $5M. Big deal, $1M is nothing in football nowadays.

But you missed the point altogether! I mean is that the way it works? We take the highest paid guy that we "haven't seen anything from" and make him and him alone the scapegoat? Of course not.

RJ makes $5M and is worth at least $3 of those! Fina makes over $4M and isn't worth $1M. Irvin gets almost $3M and isn't worth more than vet min of around 500K. I like Cowart, but so far he isn't worth 2 cents to us. Brown, same thing; he's a decent OL-man, but not worth the $4M+ that he's getting. I'd say he plays more like in the $2M range.

Again, Butler at work! That's why S.D. is paying a below average QB top dollar; a backup LB $3M; and CBs more than they were worth too. Wiley is close to if not THE top paid DE in the league yet he hasn't shown that's he's capable of holding that title on the field! He gets what, $6-7M.

Frankly I don't think Flutie was worth the green he got when he was here either. From a marketing perspective absolutely! So if that's the measure then there's no argument. But from a production perspective no-way! Any average QB could have done what he did here vs. the teams that he played.

It's actually great for us that Butler didn't resign. I think he knew he wasn't going to and what Ralph said was more correct. Why would Butler have wanted to stay here to clean up the mess he made when it was a lose-lose proposition! He was simply waiting for Ralph to be forced into making a decision. He must have had Flutie's agent working for him, but if Wilson had been me, I would have established a date and said publicly, "If I hear from John by this date (whatever it was), then he will be our GM. If not, then I'll consider that he has decided not to stay here." That would have made John look like the bad guy instead of Ralph. But Ralph was in a tough spot. You can't wait until 3 weeks before the spring camps begin to announce your GM selection! That wouldn't have been fair to the team or fans or even coaching staff.

[bduff54]

how is rj worth 3 million, do you know how much money that is? he has done nothing. that is the most ridiculous comment to come out of your mouth. hey i got your sauce.:D

Actually there duff, the most ridiculous comment in this thread so far is that "he has done nothing", which is actually completely false. So it's really not even worth discussing if you can't see that Rob's had some GREAT games! And I do mean GREAT! Just b/c you decide to "look the other way" regarding them does not mean they disappear!

So, again, if we can't even be honest here then there's really no basis for further discussion!

I also pressed patresi on this and challenged his credibility vs. mine. And I'll offer him a "reminder" when he starts posting again. But after the S.F. game last Sunday, patresi said that Rob's "had many games just as bad." I told him to ante-up and you can see that he hasn't!

Feel free to if you like. I've posted Rob's great games before and I didn't hear you say they weren't outstanding efforts. If you really believe that then why didn't you stand up and be counted.

I'll do it again, but you won't respond. So like I said, there's no further point in discussing the matter if you can't see the truth through the media lies and perceptions!

:D

Actually, I'll even say this, that Rob's top 5 games, when weighed against the strength of opponents, are better than Doug's top 5 games!

So to say that Rob's never done anything is to ignore the truth, but then further suggest that Flutie's really never done anything. Even I wouldn't say that.

Also, I'll step out here b/c I haven't really looked, but I'd also say that if we look at Flutie's 5 worst games, and Rob's worst games, games in which they each started AND finished, Flutie's are worse games.

Just say the word if you want me to post them. Then you can look them over and tell me if I chose the correct ones and we can analyze them.

[bduff54]

are you kidding me, i agree he has had great games against. t.b., k.c., indy, i wouldn't consider s.d. a marvellous game. as you say wys his opponent wasn't that good, right? but 5 games in 4 years is not worth 25 million, if this was any other sport he would be toast.

duff,

you're credibility is going down the tubes fast!

S.D. had a top 10 D at that time, even now they boast the:

12th ranked yardage D
13th ranked scoring D
9th ranked rushing D and
18th ranked passing D

They're wedged in between the Giants and N.O. in terms of total D!

Meanwhile, the S.D. game is actually an excellent game to prove my point. Rob TOTALLY outplayed Doug and please don't try to tell us now that Buffalo had anything other than one of the worst ranked Ds in all categories at the time!

Rob was responsible for just about all (over 90%) of our offense singlehandedly in that game!

I don't have time to refute every false statement made to denigrate Rob! If you want to continue this in a more serious fashion, using some numbers, facts, etc., then let me know. But simply your opinions aren't going to cut it here, especially when you ignore those things that you simply don't WANT to be true!

You're not based in reality in this conversation!

:)

BTW, if 310 yards passing and 67 yards rushing yielding 2 TDs directly and 3 overall isn't a great game against a then ranked top 10 D, now 12th, on the road, in probably the most hostile environment of the year w/ the entire crowd against you personally, then I don't know what is!

I'll put it in perspective for you: The rest of the team had 38 yards rushing and 6 yards passing. 44 total yards!

Hello, McFly!! LOL

[bduff54]

that's great wys, my original question was how does 5 good games in 4 years warrant a salary of 3 million or more. the only games i ever see rob play well in are the ones that have personal meaning to him. what is his record in the most important games. the ones against our division? pull that stat out of your stat book wys?

[ithacapeter]

What's the response been here to Marv Levy's statement that RJ's time is UP?

[bduff54]

i started that thread, i obviously agree and listen to the hall of fame coach. i'm sure wys dosen't. how do you feel ithaca?

duff,

You'd listen to Mickey Mouse if he said that!

Frankly, I don't think Marv was the best coach or evaluator of talent either. He had a world class staff and a world class team virtually handed to him and he still couldn't win a SB b/c he got outcoached largely! So if I were Marv, I think I'd stick to commentating. He was a GREAT players coach, but when it came time to motivate and get his team to step up into a zone like ALL 4 of his SB opponents, he FAILED to do so!

How many coaches do you think would have not gotten us to the SB or at least the AFC CG with the team that Marv had to work with. It was a BETTER team than what the 'Boys had in '93 and what the Gints had in '90. '91 Skins were better than we were as were the '92 'Boys. But not the others, especially the '90 Gints! THAT game NEVER should have come down to a FG. We should have won it by 10-14!

Besides there duff, as I've explained, RJ's had more than 5 good games as well.

[bduff54]

what other games? downplay marv levy, a living legend who managed to kepp all those players together. ask, bruce, thurman and andre about marv levy. they'll tell you how overrated he was. i can't believe what your saying right now.

[naeliac]

I still wanna hear about the social-political leanings of Flute fans. As far as player worth, a player is worth (costs) what you must pay to sign him. Starting QBs in the NFL all make huge dollars. Akili Smith, McNabb, Vick, Couch, and all those jokers make huge cash and were all signed after a total of zero NFL games. Players are paid in accordance to their market value, if you want a player, you must pay what he costs. If RJ is healthy he will probably get 3-6Mil. Just look at the bidding war that happened for Kerry Collins, he is inconsistant and a complete head case as well. I Chandler or Fred Taylor or Edgrin James (missed about 1 out of 3 years) were free agents they would demand big money and get it.

duff,

If I post them as I have dozens of other times before, are you going to go through them one-by-one and tell me why they aren't good games? Because you've said you follow our preestablished rules before and haven't followed thru. I'll put them up again, but I'll tell ya, I'm gonna get pissed if you ignore the challenge after you say you'll do it!

So tell me! I'll post ALL of Rob's good to very good to excellent games, and then you tell me which ones you want to disqualify from that list and why! OK!

Or not! But I'm tellin' ya, it's gonna be better for you to just say "no" right now than to say "yes" and ignore that challenge!

I get very disgusted and lose respect when things like that happen.

You make the call...

[bduff54]

the only ones i remember are. t.b. k.c. s.d., i honestly don't remeber the other ones you posted?

Well if that's all you remember, then howcome you can make those comments?

Also, I could easily twist this around and ask you to reveal to us some of these "horrible" games that you keep referring to.

I know of Miami last year twice and the second Indy game. That's it really. NONE of the others are HORRIBLE. Some very average games maybe, but certainly not as horrendous as you would lead us to believe.

[bduff54]

how about new orleans this year, or indy last year on monday night. indy this year obviously,. those were all very bad games.

I think I said Indy! And frankly I'm talkin' about last year since it's apparent that this year the problem ain't him as everyone was sayin'.

But so then, even w/ N.O., that's what, 5 now?

Come on duff! You can do better than that! I mean RJ's had dozens of horrendous games, hasn't he! Surely you can find 10 of them. I mean I gave you 4!!! You added only 1!

[bduff54]

ok wys, do you knwo a website where i can find his stats for individual games, theyn that might spark my memory. there are too many games to remember. give me your source and i wil lgive you a nice post showing multiple games where rob johnson wasn't very affective. i don't hate RJ i jsut don't want him as our QB. but i will prove my point just for your sake. can you hook me up with the site?

http://www.football-reference.com/

Fine! But remember, whatever YOU deem as "not effective", also gets applied to Flutie! Make perfect sense? Cause if not, then don't even bother.

Also, you said "bad games" which is what I expect you'll find. Consider the D played too.

Lastly, find and use games in which RJ played either primarily, or the entire game. None of this half or quarter game stuff. He started and finished plenty of them. Use last year's T.B. game if you like that he played 3 Qs in. Also, both of last year's Miami games too.

[bduff54]

ok wys after checking out that site i realized taht Rob johnson is always blood y injured, half the games he was replaced. but heres what i got.

ten 9-18 107 yrds. remeber the game, not very impressed but a good tenessee D. and van pelt only replace him near the end.

mia 11-26 178. brutal game, got murdered.

ind 12-22 188 2 ints.

and this years games against NO, indy twice, new england.

as we know in 99 he was injured.

sure he had some good games in between those, maybe even great games. but my point is, that i don't want rob johnson as our QB anymore, that site proves how often he was injured, a fresh start please? and why do i have to comapre thes to flutie? i'm not arguing flutie over johnson.

Why do you have to compare these to Flutie?

Look at what Flutie did in that Miami games? Even less! So obviously it wasn't JUST Rob since Flutie didn't play any better. Is it not possible that the team was not adjusting and playing poorly those games? I'd say so.

BTW, you're wrong, he wasn't injured in '99, he was ready to play ALL YEAR. Flutie was declared the starter from the beginning if I remember correctly.

At least we've made some progress here.

BTW, since Flutie got credit just for winning, are you trying to take away Rob's effort in that Tennessee game in which we WON! He also had 60 rushing yards that you conveniently forgot to mention.

I hope I've made my point which is that most of Rob's perceptions are NOT based in reality. Everyone says he's played horribly and the he's had mostly bad games, now you tell me that just isn't true in essence.

Like I said, we're making progress.

You said,

"...my point is, that i don't want rob johnson as our QB anymore..."

I think that's more the issue. You don't want! Because frankly, just b/c he didn't start does not mean he was hurt, that's simply not true and to assume that is wrong. He was healthy in '99. He missed a few games last year. '98 he missed what would have been one or two games then Flutie got the nod an Rob only started when Flutie was hurt.

NOW, do you want to discuss his good games?

[bduff54]

i dont' care about flutie, yes flutie did stink it up when he went, who cares? i never said flutie was better than johnson, they both played like garbage. my point is i want us to develop somebody that may be able to step in there and beat a good D. we haven't had tht since kelly. And please don't talk about Rob vs. T.B one game means nothing. oh yeah i forgot to mention pitt this year, he sucked ass in that game.

Pittsburgh, as it is turning out, has one of the best Ds in the history of the game! So did T.B.!

I was just refuting your notions that RJ just can't play! It's flat out not true. I don't care about Flutie either, but when you say Rob was injured and in fact he was not, they just went w/ Flutie, it makes it difficult to not bring him up.

I hear ya on finding another QB! We are in perfect agreement there. The difference is that you want to toss everything that we have and go with rookies or some other totally risky deal! THAT makes zero sense!

If we can use RJ until our "newbie" is primed, then why not? Do you INSIST on losing until we find a rookie that comes of age?

I don't get it! Let's assume that for the sake of argument, RJ will never be anything better than average, many a SB victor has won w/ only an average QB, so why not keep him around until this rookie that we haven't even drafted yet, but that you KNOW will turn out to be the next Montana, ACTUALLY arrives before we cut off ALL of our other options!

What? Are you afraid that RJ WILL succeed and prove you wrong and then you'll have to live w/ your faulty assessments? Is that it, b/c it sure sounds like that's what it is! I just can't figure out why you want to clean house and rid us of every ounce of stability at the position going into next year. VP clearly ain't gonna cut it as a starter for very long.

[McBill]

VP clearly ain't gonna cut it as a starter for very long.

...but so long as he is,

GO AVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

McBill:p

Oh, of course!!!

But I'm not exactly confident that our O is gonna compliment our D very much next year w/ him in there.

All I'm sayin' is why throw out all the eggs in our basket and really on luck and hope w/ rookies? It just doesn't make any sense. It also puts us on the weak side of any bargaining arrangement for a QB w/ another team, whether via normal trade or draft day trading. Not good to be at such a disadvantage!

[McBill]

I'm not confident either, but please don't tell AVP I said so!

I say RJ still has a lot in him, so keep him - I don't believe I ever said get rid of him, did I? If I did, maybe I was just mad after he got injured??

Not much out there in the way of qbs, is there? Is it just that football itself has become a lot faster on the lines and so qbs just have not caught up yet unless they are types like Michael Vick or Culpepper?

McBillwondersif thereisacorrelationbetweenbetterathletesonthewhole fieldinfootballandthedropineffectiveqbsinthenfl???