AVP Vs. RJ

[billsfanone]

How can a substandard QB like AVP outperform RJ? Do you still support RJ?

RJ
Yds: 1,465
Att: 216
Cmp: 134
Cmp %.: 62.04
TDs: 5
TD %: 2.3
Ints: 7
Long: 61
Rating: 76.3
Sack: 31

AVP
Yds: 980
Att: 131
Cmp: 79
Cmp %.: 60.31%
TDs: 9
TD %: 6.9
Ints: 4
Long: 80
Rating: 93.7
Sack: 7

[John]

I can’t believe you think that is a fair comparison!!!!

AVP’s stats are obviously padded by luck – not to mention the better players around him, the phases of the moon when he plays and his birth sign.

RJ’s stats are hindered by tougher competition, worse players around him, bad coaching and play calling, fan opposition, bad karma and low tides in Lake Erie. Not to mention the totally bad Feng Shui that is a result of the location of RJ’s locker in the locker room (totally stagnant chi) and the FACT that blue is not a good color for him.

How can you think that the 10 stats you list can possibly be conclusive?:D

[bduff54]

feng shui, that is the most ridiculous remedy for stress i have ever heard of. rj is done.

[billsfanone]

LMAO

And what teams on the same defensive scale as Pittsburgh and N.O. did VP play?

Oh, how SILLY of me to think that something such as playing against an exceptional defense that allows only 10 ppg COULD POSSIBLY impact how the QB does!

Sorry, lost my head there for a moment! Disregard!

RJ sucks...

:D

And no, Miami's D was ranked like 19th coming into the game on Sunday and I'm sure it didn't improve after it.

[bduff54]

miami has a good D, i know they had some injuries but still pretty good D. wys. rob has faced them all good D's, bad D's and he has never managed to be very successful, sure he's had a good game here or there but he is very inconsistent, it is a disgrace in my eyes if he gets paid again to do nothing

Sure! And he's also had Carman, Heimburger, Farris, and Sullivan (who may be good one day but isn't yet) blocking for him for most of his games.

At last check, VP had the luxury of playing w/, and from left to right, Fina, Brown, Conaty, Ostroski, and Jennings. Those are our starting OL.

Do you think that may have ANYTHING at all to do w/ the amount of time that Rob has had.

Because I seem to vividly remember in games when RJ had plenty of time, that he sure played the lights out of the Ds. Even a few times last year when he didn't, he still did. Vs. T.B. a prime example.

Flutie's presence and that "bogus" win stigma has tainted and warped everyone's outlook of what Rob HAS done here and how he's played. NO ONE looks at ANYTHING positive about Rob. Sure, HE didn't win games last year, but he was 4-5. That ain't all that bad considering our team. WE were 8-8 on the year. Flutie was 4-2, but in his 4 wins he played 3 of the weakest teams in the league.

So it stands to reason that Rob wouldn't be OVER .500.

I think the knocks on Rob this year are just unreal!

HORRIBLE OL, new system, new players playing together, new coaches (making PLENTY of mistakes and bad calls BTW), etc.

VP has those same things BUT that have had half a season to work together.

All the VP supporters would be screaming Bloody murder if we put him in the first 8 games and THEN put RJ in after we had improved and gotten our OL back.

I know Rob has some issues, but why can't we cut him some slack for the conditions under which he's had to play.

Well, you'll say, he needs to learn to win under ALL conditions. To which I would reply two things:

First, those conditions would have prevented Favre or Warner from winning.

Second, Then why aren't other QBs measured in the same light. Bledsoe is a PRIME example. Other than the Parcells years w/ GREAT D, he hasn't won beans. MANY other QBs as well!

[bduff54]

why don't we bringh somebody else in to stand behind the o-line, somebody that the fans will support 100 percent. bringing back rob is also bad for business, i wouldn't buy a seaons ticket due to fear hat we could end up with the same record as this year. he has to go wys. wether it's his fault or not. too much history man.

[Blue_Bandana]

AVP beat Pittsburg in the preseason by a score of 20-3. Obviously not regular season play but still reflective of his ability.

[billsfanone]

Wys said - (All the VP supporters would be screaming Bloody murder if we put him in the first 8 games and THEN put RJ in after we had improved and gotten our OL back.)

Wys,
I don't think anyone is really an AVP supporter. The fact that he outplayed RJ does not make me a supporter.

If anyone can improve the team, I'm all for it. Including getting a better QB than AVP. If AVP did horribly in the last 2 games, I and others would say "Maybe RJ isn't half bad." But since RJ was outshined by a career backup QB - the whole story is told.

If the Bills keep RJ and he starts next year, I'll still root for him. I don't hate the guy. He just doesn't cut the mustard.

Brown Banana,

And so NATURALLY the guys who played in preseason are the same ones now on the team and I'M SURE they played w/ the same intensity!

You guys NEVER cease to crack me up...!


fanone,

I hear ya, and you may be right. That's what I fear. I am ready to cann RJ too after half a season w/ the starting unit! NOT after half a season with ALL the changes we've seen AND only 2 starting OL-men and 3 others that generally speaking don't belong in the NFL, at least not as starters.

I think that's fair. For Banana, Judge, patresi, and a few others, they think that those OL-men played poorly b/c RJ was in there. To that I say put them back in then and see if all of a sudden they start playing like allstars! Do you think they would? They do!

I don't. Call me crazy, but I actually believe, and I know that it's right up there w/ believing in the tooth fairy, that the play of the OL often dictates not only the outcomes, but also the performances of individual players, particularly the QB!

[bduff54]

i agree wys that preseason comment waas ridiculous. the reason people are so behind van pelt is not because they want him to be starter it's because he is getting the ball to our big guys price and moulds. don't you find it stunning that a below average QB like van pelt is clearly outplaying RJ. yeah the offensive line is playing better but van plet is getting the job done, i know he lost but our Did let in 34 points, it's tough to win like that. i just think his performances are really proving that RJ plays a bigger role in our demise than i originally thought.

"don't you find it stunning that a below average QB like van pelt is clearly outplaying RJ."

NO! Not at all! Our team is now halfway thru the season w/ all the changes that were made in the offseason. Half a season is HUGE! Regardless of your viewpoint, generally speaking, Rob has improved, albeit mildly.

But the simply presence of our starting OL, consisting of men at least of NFL caliber, should be enough to make that difference for even a below average QB. I have no problem w/ people analyzing RJ's play, but to do so w/ all the positives that VP has in contrast and comparison to VP in circumstances that very CLEARLY and SIGNIFICANTLY favor VP, I just don't think THAT'S fair.

How would RJ play in this system behind the starting OL?

A: We simply don't know since he's NOT had the luxury! To say he'd still suck is drawing a conclusion that I don't think is fair to draw and clearly reveals a bias.

Also, it stands to reason that the WORST point of the season that we will play w/ all of the changes in our team, is the BEGINNING of the season. NOW, VP comes in mid-way, WITH the starting OL unit, and we are comparing him to Rob.

What's funny is that Rob ACTUALLY outplayed Flutie in '98 and '99. REALLY! Simply LOOK at his numbers and average points put up. You can't just put the blinders on and look at the S.D. game tho. I know that's unfair. :rolleyes:

But then, performance DIDN'T matter, wins did! Now, wins don't count, performance does. My point: that performance is inconsequential? NO! Absolutely not since that's what I used in '98 and '99 for Rob.

My point was that there's VERY CLEARLY an anti-Rob bias at work here! VERY CLEARLY!

All I'm saying is how about giving him a chance w/ ALL the tools and the benefit of not playing in a COMPLETELY NEW system w/ new and learning coaching and all, just like VP now has.

Is that so unfair?

I don't get it!

But what's gonna drive Rob outta here is simple perceptions. What if he DOES go to a WCOive team and excels there while we struggle for years to find a QB?

Would that make any of us happy? I'd be pissed!

What's interesting is that the EXACT same people making the biggest stink about Rob now were saying how wonderful Flutie was. Well, they're wrong about Flutie. NOW, we are supposed to believe that Rob will never amount to anything in this league?

I'll say they're gonna be wrong there too.

[bduff54]

i hope they are wrong, "anti rob bias" wys i have supported Rob johnson for 3 years now, i do not consider me to be an RJ hater when i have finally realized that i don't think he is our man. the difference between me and the "FF" is that i will support RJ if he remains our QB. granted if TD give him a huge contract i wil lbe very mad and irritated because i don't think he deserves it. and people being wrong about flutie remains to be seen. hey wys have you ever looked at their o-line, if an o-line is the most important factor on a team then flutie is playing very well.:D

Actually I have, and it's really playing pretty well. I've watched most of the games after the first few, and Flutie has quite a bit of time unless he gets blitzed. They're not great, but I can tell you they're a heck of a lot better than ours was earlier this year. But Flutie's had plenty of time in the pocket to make plays, usually.

If it was as bad as you say, then S.D. wouldn't have the 7th leading rusher in the NFL on pace for a 1,300 yard, 13 or 14 TD season.

As a rookie...

[Blue_Bandana]

Originally posted by wyswings
NOW, we are supposed to believe that Rob will never amount to anything in this league?

That's not necessarily true. If Ryan Leaf can be playing for the Cowboys, the league must be diluted in talent enough, that there is a place for Rob Johnson.

Go back to the S.D. boards where most of your other posts are...

;)

Originally posted by wyswings
And no, Miami's D was ranked like 19th coming into the game on Sunday and I'm sure it didn't improve after it.

Wasn't it ranked 3rd..

No way! Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cleveland and a bunch of others were ranked higher for sure.

One aspect of it may have been ranked 3rd. Miami's D really hasn't been that impressive this year.

They've allowed 23, 42, 21, 20, 24, 24, and 27 points in 7 of their games this season. Everyone assumes that b/c they were SUPPOSED to have a great D that they do/did. Even I until I took a look. They're below average this year and w/ Madison out and no viable replacement, their pass D won't be much better than Tennessee's.

Originally posted by wyswings
No way! Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cleveland and a bunch of others were ranked higher for sure.

One aspect of it may have been ranked 3rd. Miami's D really hasn't been that impressive this year.

They've allowed 23, 42, 21, 20, 24, 24, and 27 points in 7 of their games this season. Everyone assumes that b/c they were SUPPOSED to have a great D that they do/did. Even I until I took a look. They're below average this year and w/ Madison out and no viable replacement, their pass D won't be much better than Tennessee's.

You're right. I looked it up on NFL.com and found that Miami ranks 6th in total defense. Not third, but awfully repectable. Pittsburg is first but Chicago and Cleveland rank lower and are behind Buffalo as is San Francisco.....

What really surprised me is that Dallas is ranked 5th in total defense. Buffalo ranks 14th and San Diego 12th....

[Blue_Bandana]

I've got 10 posts on the SD Board, you have over 400 (and yours are mostly in praise of The F Man) ;) Besides, you and Jeffblew would miss my posts.

Dolphins rank #5 overall (NFL.com)

Here we go w/ the lies again Blue. I think I've made 7 or 8 MAX! Even if I'm missin' few, it certainly ain't more than 15!!!

Why do you do this to me?!

What do I do to you?

patresi,

I meant scoring D.

Miami's 19th w/ 21.2 ppg allowed

I am not sure what they were prior to last week. Those are deceiving b/c they've sucked since Madison got hurt, having to start a rookie CB just like Tennessee who's also terrible, 30th in pass yardage D. The loss of Madison was apparent in the Miami game, along w/ DL losses and other stuff that has mounted for them throughout the season.

[billsfanone]

Originally posted by wyswings
patresi,

I meant scoring D.

Miami's 19th w/ 21.2 ppg allowed

I am not sure what they were prior to last week. Those are deceiving b/c they've sucked since Madison got hurt, having to start a rookie CB just like Tennessee who's also terrible, 30th in pass yardage D. The loss of Madison was apparent in the Miami game, along w/ DL losses and other stuff that has mounted for them throughout the season.

Does scoring D include special teams and interceptions for TD's?

[jeffblue19]

No, it's POINTS that the DEFENSE allows PER GAME!

[billsfanone]

:rolleyes: Gotcha

[BogusTrumper]

WYS you are really sick. You post on the SD board? Man, you are obsessed with Flutie.;)

:moon:

NO! I went over a couple times before the season began and just looked in a few times to see what fan sentiment was after the AZ game!

Actually, Blue Bandana has made quite a few posts over there. He and others have accused me of making hundreds of posts which is simply horses...! I wouldn't waste my time over there.

Someone who posts here either regularly started posting personal lies about me so I went over to say "bite me!" If there's not much you know about me, the one thing you DO know is that I don't hide behind anyone or anything. I'll lay it on ya right between the eyes.

But there are a few traitors over here that seem to post over there quite a bit actually. If you send me an e-mail I'll tell ya what my logon is over there and you can go see that I've only made a few there, and most of those were in response to someone slandering me.

Nice of them to stand up and be counted!

;)

Originally posted by wyswings
patresi,

I meant scoring D.

Miami's 19th w/ 21.2 ppg allowed

I am not sure what they were prior to last week. Those are deceiving b/c they've sucked since Madison got hurt, having to start a rookie CB just like Tennessee who's also terrible, 30th in pass yardage D. The loss of Madison was apparent in the Miami game, along w/ DL losses and other stuff that has mounted for them throughout the season.

Didn't someone lecture you once on how the NFL determines defense. For instance last year, the Ravens' defense wasn't ranked first, it was the Titans. Some team might get blown out one week and lose because of that...it's a far fairer measure to look at overall stats.

OK patresi!

Why don't you just kick yourself in the nards too!

Let's see...

It's deceiving since Madison is out!

BUT,

We played them w/o Madison, a rookie in his place actually!

THEREFORE,

They were really better than they were before that!

OK...


"it's a far fairer measure to look at overall stats."

That's why I usually post more that are relevant. Baltimore last year was 2nd in yardage D and 1st in scoring D. But the NFL said they had the best D in NFL history! Gee, you're right, that must've been yardage D!

Do you think we're all idiots here! I can't speak for everyone, but I'd say just about every poster here realizes that you just stepped in it on that one!

Besides, it usually doesn't happen that a team is 1st in yardage D and last in scoring D. They're usually fairly close, within 10 or so anyway. Besides, have you ever heard of the "red zone"? Well some teams are simply worse in the red zone even though they don't give up as many yards. It still means they're easier to score points on.

Oh, but I forgot, Flutie redefined the offense here in Buffalo so that points scored don't matter. Sorry!

Disregard everything I just said...

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by wyswings
OK patresi!

Why don't you just kick yourself in the nards too!

Let's see...

It's deceiving since Madison is out!

BUT,

We played them w/o Madison, a rookie in his place actually!

THEREFORE,

They were really better than they were before that!

OK...


"it's a far fairer measure to look at overall stats."

That's why I usually post more that are relevant. Baltimore last year was 2nd in yardage D and 1st in scoring D. But the NFL said they had the best D in NFL history! Gee, you're right, that must've been yardage D!

Do you think we're all idiots here! I can't speak for everyone, but I'd say just about every poster here realizes that you just stepped in it on that one!

Besides, it usually doesn't happen that a team is 1st in yardage D and last in scoring D. They're usually fairly close, within 10 or so anyway. Besides, have you ever heard of the "red zone"? Well some teams are simply worse in the red zone even though they don't give up as many yards. It still means they're easier to score points on.

Oh, but I forgot, Flutie redefined the offense here in Buffalo so that points scored don't matter. Sorry!

Disregard everything I just said...

:rolleyes:


Hey look, I"m not the one who goes to the San Diego boards or even mentions Flutie. Is he on the Bills? Why don't you come and talk about the Bills sometime instead?

I just wrote what the NFL writes....but if you want to make up what you want..then knock yourself out.

Well then whoever wrote that is a moron!

Yeah, you're right! Maybe I'll start posting here some...

:D

Originally posted by wyswings
Well then whoever wrote that is a moron!

Yeah, you're right! Maybe I'll start posting here some...

:D

Well, who am I to disagree with what you write being moronic....