Free Agent Defensive Ends

[Mouldsie]

Here are some of next year's FA's.
Asteriks are by players that I would like the Bills to look at.

-----
DE Douglas, Marques
DE Hayward, Reggie*
DE Brock, Raheem
DE Green, Jarvis*
DE Abraham, John* obviously lol
DE Hamilton, Bobby
DE Hall, Carlos
DE Zellner, Peppi
DE Pittman, Kavika
DE Howard, Darren
DE Burgess, Derrick*
DE Douglas, Hugh
DE Carter, Andre*
DE Okeafor, Chike
-----

My Top 3
1) John Abraham (though highly unlikely)
2) Darren Howard
3) Reggie Hayward

[BeastMode Deep]

All Abraham cares about is money, he proved that in the playoffs. I wouldnt want him

[TigerJ]

Not that I follow other teams and players closeely enough to be an expert on this sort of thing, but Raheem Brock looks intriguing. At 27 (in June) he's younger than some of those guys. He looks like he carries enough size to man the left side of the lineand his tackles have risen dramatically each season. His sacks have also risen each year.

[FknGvna]

You can't get no better than Howard. Brock then Hall.

[Figurita20]

Carlos Hall had a great rookie year but I don't know if he improved his game the last two years to be considered. Maybe he was productive because he played opposite Jevon Kearse.

His first year had 8 sacks but then he produced 3 sacks and this year only 2.5 sacks.

[SpikedLemonade]

With all due respect, is acquiring a FA DE really a priority?

We were tied for 3rd in sacks with 45 in 2004.

We have 3 relatively young DEs including one that we just signed to a long-term contract. Kelsay came on as the season wore on.

Can we really afford 2 BIG contracts for two DEs?

I would much rather bring in a franchise OT or two above average interior OLs than spend the money on a FA DE.

[gr8slayer]

With all due respect, is acquiring a FA DE really a priority?

We were tied for 3rd in sacks with 45 in 2004.

We have 3 relatively young DEs including one that we just signed to a long-term contract. Kelsay came on as the season wore on.

Can we really afford 2 BIG contracts for two DEs?

I would much rather bring in a franchise OT or two above average interior OLs than spend the money on a FA DE.
Finally something that makes sense.

[aaronthebaron]

With all due respect, is acquiring a FA DE really a priority?

We were tied for 3rd in sacks with 45 in 2004.

We have 3 relatively young DEs including one that we just signed to a long-term contract. Kelsay came on as the season wore on.

Can we really afford 2 BIG contracts for two DEs?

I would much rather bring in a franchise OT or two above average interior OLs than spend the money on a FA DE.

I agree with this. My first thought was that it would be nice to get a good end opposite Schobel, but Spiked made some good points. We have time and money invested in Schobel, Kelsay, and Denney, let's ride them for another year.

[miamibillsnut]

I will agree with the $$$ issue, but you guys are kidding yourself if you dont think DE is a priority. It's priority 1(a) after O-line. The majority of our sacks come on blitzes or coverage sacks, and that is ok against most teams, but not all the time. We cant get any pressure with just our front 4. Our most consistent pass rushing lineman weighs 360 lbs, and no thats not a typo, Sam Adams is our most consistent pass rusher.

Our defense goes from very good to SICK with Darren Howard or John Abraham opposite Schoebel and Nate Clements goes to a level we cant even imagine.

[aaronthebaron]

I will agree with the $$$ issue, but you guys are kidding yourself if you dont think DE is a priority. It's priority 1(a) after O-line. The majority of our sacks come on blitzes or coverage sacks, and that is ok against most teams, but not all the time. We cant get any pressure with just our front 4. Our most consistent pass rushing lineman weighs 360 lbs, and no thats not a typo, Sam Adams is our most consistent pass rusher.

Our defense goes from very good to SICK with Darren Howard or John Abraham opposite Schoebel and Nate Clements goes to a level we cant even imagine.

hmmm....I find it difficult to argue with some of your points. It did seem like Sam was our most consistent, however, I think this was just due to his tremendous jump on snap count. I just can't get my mind around locking in more cash on a DE. We have millions (each) invested in our three top ends, it just seems like we've stuck ourselves into developing them.

[FknGvna]

We NEED A PASS RUSH SPECIALIST. Come on guys, you should've known that since LAST offseason. AS evidenced by ALL of the last second games we lost. We lost because the defense allowed the opposing QB enough time to pick us apart. Count the number of Non-coverage sacks Dennalsay has.

[Figurita20]

We NEED A PASS RUSH SPECIALIST. Come on guys, you should've known that since LAST offseason. AS evidenced by ALL of the last second games we lost. We lost because the defense allowed the opposing QB enough time to pick us apart. Count the number of Non-coverage sacks Dennalsay has.

Justin Tuck from Notre Dame
Strengths: Excellent natural athletic ability...Tall and lanky...Explosive speed and quickness...Was very productive and a sack artist...Has a lot of experience against top competition...Is unblockable at times...Getting better every season

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/de/justintuck.html

[aaronthebaron]

Tuck is a 2nd rounder; I'd like to see us spend that on an OG, especially with McNally's reputation in working with rookies. Plus we already have 2nd round quality ends (two of them, as a matter of fact).

[FknGvna]

Tuck was looking like a first rounder to me. If we pick up the second and are able to get him and Baas, I would be loving next season.

[1968_bills_fan]

Our DE are planned to do containment on the outside. They have responsibilities to control the dump-off flare pass, outside screens, QB scrambles to the outside, sweeps and ocassionally the short zone. This frees up the OLB to play differently than if the OLB has to defend the outside area of the field as much. Ears-back pass rushing is not the first responsibility of the DE. Even on likely passing downs, it makes sense sometimes to have the DE drop back to the short passing zone, (guys with long arms like Denney are good here), leave the offensive tackle standing still with a puzzled look on his face and no one to block, while a linebacker has a clear shot to the QB. To evaluate the quality of our DE's by only one metric (sacks made) is improper- I guess you could add a % of the sacks by the interior LB to the DE's totals to see their effectiveness in the overalll pass-rushing defense. We are okay (not great, but okay) at DE. The interior OL is a higher priority this draft. :gabgab:

[miamibillsnut]

Our DE are planned to do containment on the outside. They have responsibilities to control the dump-off flare pass, outside screens, QB scrambles to the outside, sweeps and ocassionally the short zone. This frees up the OLB to play differently than if the OLB has to defend the outside area of the field as much. Ears-back pass rushing is not the first responsibility of the DE. Even on likely passing downs, it makes sense sometimes to have the DE drop back to the short passing zone, (guys with long arms like Denney are good here), leave the offensive tackle standing still with a puzzled look on his face and no one to block, while a linebacker has a clear shot to the QB. To evaluate the quality of our DE's by only one metric (sacks made) is improper- I guess you could add a % of the sacks by the interior LB to the DE's totals to see their effectiveness in the overalll pass-rushing defense. We are okay (not great, but okay) at DE. The interior OL is a higher priority this draft. :gabgab:


If ears back pass rushing is not the first responsibility of our DE's we need to reconsider our philosophy? I think it's more that Gray realizes they arent going to get there and send others. We are OK at one DE. We are way below average at our other DE.

[miamibillsnut]

hmmm....I find it difficult to argue with some of your points. It did seem like Sam was our most consistent, however, I think this was just due to his tremendous jump on snap count. I just can't get my mind around locking in more cash on a DE. We have millions (each) invested in our three top ends, it just seems like we've stuck ourselves into developing them.

Again, i am not going to argue the money issue, because it is a very good point, but the way i figure it is, our Offense is not close to being great, especially if we start over again with a new QB next year. I am a believer that one superb outstanding unit, can take you all the way to the Superbowl, as long as the other unit doesnt mess it all up. We can have a decent offense next year. With a pass rushing stud like Howard or Abraham, we can have the best defense in the league, a defense like the Ravens had 3 years ago when the only thing they asked their offense was to not lose the game.

[FknGvna]

Our DE are planned to do containment on the outside. :gabgab:

Like Denney did when St Pierre ran that bootleg on us in wk 17.

[John from Hemet]

Finally something that makes sense.

What we need to do is look for that older pure situational pass rusher who has proven he can get it done before (aka Jim Jeffcoat) that is getting on in years and is very affordable.......

Other then that our DE's are fine......

[SweetLee8 3PlayaWha?]

Our DE are planned to do containment on the outside. They have responsibilities to control the dump-off flare pass, outside screens, QB scrambles to the outside, sweeps and ocassionally the short zone. This frees up the OLB to play differently than if the OLB has to defend the outside area of the field as much. Ears-back pass rushing is not the first responsibility of the DE. Even on likely passing downs, it makes sense sometimes to have the DE drop back to the short passing zone, (guys with long arms like Denney are good here), leave the offensive tackle standing still with a puzzled look on his face and no one to block, while a linebacker has a clear shot to the QB. To evaluate the quality of our DE's by only one metric (sacks made) is improper- I guess you could add a % of the sacks by the interior LB to the DE's totals to see their effectiveness in the overalll pass-rushing defense. We are okay (not great, but okay) at DE. The interior OL is a higher priority this draft. :gabgab:

I disagree. This is the same defense they ran in Tennesee. It was always good, but never really over the top good until they got Kearse. If they're using the DE's that way, it's because they're not very good at getting to the QB. I never see Dennelsay making tackles on screens and such. I don't buy it. With all the great players in the front 7, there is no need for soembody as dominant as Kearse, but Dennelsay is not even average. We've got to upgrade there. With Adams and Williams pushing the pocket, and Shobel being a threat on the other side, the LE should be a dream job for pass rushing. These bums get stifled by single blocking, sometimes by tight ends.

[miamibillsnut]

I disagree. This is the same defense they ran in Tennesee. It was always good, but never really over the top good until they got Kearse. If they're using the DE's that way, it's because they're not very good at getting to the QB. I never see Dennelsay making tackles on screens and such. I don't buy it. With all the great players in the front 7, there is no need for soembody as dominant as Kearse, but Dennelsay is not even average. We've got to upgrade there. With Adams and Williams pushing the pocket, and Shobel being a threat on the other side, the LE should be a dream job for pass rushing. These bums get stifled by single blocking, sometimes by tight ends.

Amen!!!!

[Mouldsie]

Like Denney did when St Pierre ran that bootleg on us in wk 17.
lol

[gr8slayer]

What we need to do is look for that older pure situational pass rusher who has proven he can get it done before (aka Jim Jeffcoat) that is getting on in years and is very affordable.......

Other then that our DE's are fine......
Who the freak is Jim Jeffcoat, never even heard of the guy.

[gilchristfan]

Who the freak is Jim Jeffcoat, never even heard of the guy.
And you're from Texas? He played for the Cowboys for years and ended up his career with the Bills in the late 90's

[gr8slayer]

And you're from Texas? He played for the Cowboys for years and ended up his career with the Bills in the late 90's
Man I pay no attention to anything Texas except for the Texans and aTm. I hate Texas this is why I am moving out of state.

[SabreNasty2630]

I don't know too much about Hayward, what can you tell me about him Moulds?

[Mouldsie]

Big guy (6'5'' 270) with great athleticism and nice pass rush moves.

I remember watching him on Sunday Night football twice this season and both times he stood out to me as a great DE. He finished the year with 10.5 sacks. Last year as a situational player he had 8.5 sacks (Bert Barry and Trevor Pryce were the starters) so he made the most of his opportunity. He's been in the league for 4 years and is 25 years old.
With Trevor Pryce out for 14 games he was Denver's premier pass rusher and was the only guy on the team with double digit sacks. The next highest sack total on that team was a pathetic total of 3. This shows me that he was not just the product of everone around him, he was the man to be stopped by opposing offences but still produced big numbers.

[K-Gun]

Moulds, it says here that Shaun Ellis and Chike Okeafor are also a FA's: Ellis has had back to back double digit seasons, 12.5 and 11. And Okeafor has 13 two years in a row.

http://www.theredzone.org/2005/freeagents/showposition.asp?Position=DE

[Mouldsie]

Ellis was re-signed last offseason. That site sucks. :D They are missing a lot of names an have names of players who do not belong.



Okeafor has never had more than 8.5 sacks in a season and I think is in his 30's. He's on my list above but I don't think highly of him.

[K-Gun]

Ellis was re-signed last offseason. That site sucks. :D They are missing a lot of names an have names of players who do not belong.



Okeafor has never had more than 8.5 sacks in a season and I think is in his 30's. He's on my list above but I don't think highly of him.

Good to know about that site.

Edit: i can't read today...

[Mouldsie]

lol, still on codine or w/e?



That site looks to be better than before... a few weeks ago I checked it out and it was garbage... now they have more names but I am not sure how accurate they are if they have Ellis listed.

[K-Gun]

lol, still on codine or w/e?



That site looks to be better than before... a few weeks ago I checked it out and it was garbage... now they have more names but I am not sure how accurate they are if they have Ellis listed.


unforunatly I'm out of drugs, so I've had to turn to excessive amounts of alcohol to ease withdrawl symptoms :)

[SabreNasty2630]

hmmmmm Hayward sounds like a beast. He's got great size too. Wouldn't mind seeing him brought in either, especially if it helps the cap over someone like a Darren Howard. Than again, i'd take anything over Kelsay or Denney. We really do need a pure pash rusher from the end position. Someone who can get us 10-13 sacks a year with plenty of hurries. I think someone may have mentioned it above also, but it would only help Clements numbers and other secondary players as well, not to mention it would provide an extra LB in coverage on certain plays since we'd have consistancy from the line rushing.

[SweetLee8 3PlayaWha?]

I'm all about Derrick Burgess now. He's the speed rusher this defense needs to go over the top. He's come on like crazy in the 05 playoffs. There's a good chance that the Eagles wont elect to resign him as they have Kearse and guy they moved up to grab in the first round, McDougal.

[CJBS]

No this is not what we need we need to focus on the middle if Williams leaves and our OL the Line on Def is good

[FknGvna]

The defense is good when it comes to numbers, the defense is average when it comes to that killer instinct that the pats D has. get it done. Bum Fights!

[gman]

hmmm....I find it difficult to argue with some of your points. It did seem like Sam was our most consistent, however, I think this was just due to his tremendous jump on snap count. I just can't get my mind around locking in more cash on a DE. We have millions (each) invested in our three top ends, it just seems like we've stuck ourselves into developing them.

The only way we spend money on another DE is if we get rid of Adams; I'm not advocating it just saying. We switch to 3-4, re-sign Williams (that the staff prefer over Adams) cut Adams and bring in a mid level FA for outside spot. Its not going to happen because Adams put in a big year but it is the thinking that NE had when they let Washington leave for Oakland. As it is, we are set with our DL for this year and the money to be spent will be Williams at 3 years for about 9 mill.

Is it just me or do I think the idea that are other teams are big time interested in Williams is over-rated?

[ddaryl]

This FA period is all about OL. Our D is built, but our OL needs to be bolstered in a major way.

If McGhaee can be a 1000 yd rusher behind an average OL. He can be 2000 yd rusher behind an solid OL. If the Bills are going ith JP next year then we need to ensure we bolster the OL to help improve his confidence.

I don't see the bills spending any money of the D side of the ball accept for the re-signing of Pat Williams.

[rob on the job]

I don't see the pressing need for defensive lineman.

We're going to have enough to focus on with the offense.

[gr8slayer]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, we do not need anymore help on Defense, Kelsay will be just fine.

[Mouldsie]

You guys are all underachievers.

[FknGvna]

Can Kelsay make a tackle at the LOS, if not then I want somone who can. :puh:

[Mouldsie]

Looks like it'll be Kelsay.

Hayward was the only guy worth it.