Smith vs. Udeze

[Vessel17]

Len Pasquarelli writes...

There is a terrific debate raging right now over the top two defensive end prospects in next month's draft. Ask 10 personnel directors or scouts about the top guy at the position and five will name Will Smith of Ohio State while the other five cite Southern California standout Kenechi Udeze. There is an increasing possibility now that both will be chosen among the top 12 players next month. Udeze had a strong workout this week, clocking 40-yard times of 4.78-4.81, posting a 39-inch vertical jump and a long jump of 10 feet, 5 inches, while completing 25 "repetitions" of the standard 225-pound bench press. But two scouts who attended the workout told ESPN.com that Udeze, who a few years ago dropped 80-plus pounds so that he could play end, almost looked too thin at 273 pounds. Smith was 267 pounds at his campus workout, torched the 40 in the 4.6-range, had a vertical jump of 38½ inches, a long jump of 9 feet, 9 inches, and did 30 bench press "reps." It is tough to choose between the two. Said one scout: "I give the slightest edge to Smith. He reminds me of (Saints defensive end) Darren Howard, but with more pure pass-rush ability. Watching him on tape, he's got that natural skill, closing speed, the knack for getting to the passer. But I like the other guy a lot, too, and it's a tough call."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1768806

In most mock drafts either both Udeze and Smith or just Smith fall to us at #13. I'm excited that both are being considered premier prospects! One of these guys could be the DE we need.

[nATEFan22]

yup, id be really happy with either of them i really hope we dont trade our 13th picky away!

[Mainejays]

Second round selections the past three years on DE isn't enough? We need OL help, along with another receiver and QB of the future more than another high draft pick DE.:thwak:

[BTKMTG]

Defensive End is the biggest need on a defense that is ALMOST great.. We all have ssen what a great pass rusher can do and with either of theses guys (I prefer Will Smith) it will make our D great... WR is so deep that you go for that in round 2... Draft is thin at the DE spot so go rd 1 for that..

[TigerJ]

I don't think this debate will ever end. "We don't have a pass rush." "We've drafted three second rounders for three consecutive years at DE. That's enough."

I'm not going to add anything new to the debate. I guess my opinion is that if the pass rush is not effective it doesn't matter how many high draft picks you've used, you still have to find someone who can play. In the case of the Bills, the jury is still out on Chris Kelsay, at least from the perspective of the fans. The Bills coaching staff, at least Jerry Gray seems pretty high on him.

If Buffalo does pick either Udeze or Smith I won't be unhappy, but if they pass, telling us they're going to be OK with the guys they've got, I'll accept their word until proven otherwise. Then I'll be mad

[swami jr]

Originally posted by TigerJ
I don't think this debate will ever end. "We don't have a pass rush." "We've drafted three second rounders for three consecutive years at DE. That's enough."

I'm not going to add anything new to the debate. I guess my opinion is that if the pass rush is not effective it doesn't matter how many high draft picks you've used, you still have to find someone who can play. In the case of the Bills, the jury is still out on Chris Kelsay, at least from the perspective of the fans. The Bills coaching staff, at least Jerry Gray seems pretty high on him.

If Buffalo does pick either Udeze or Smith I won't be unhappy, but if they pass, telling us they're going to be OK with the guys they've got, I'll accept their word until proven otherwise. Then I'll be mad

:thumbup:

[Tigerbenna]

argghhhh....mother of christ......it took schobel 3 years to come around....denney or kelsay or both will step up this year big time....if not mckenzie will do ok, it seems. Plus there are the june cuts. NO NEED TO SPEND THAT HIGH A PICK TO ADD TO THE NUMBER 3 D! We need QB, WR in 1st and 2nd...OL, FS, K and depth the rest of the way....

[swami jr]

Originally posted by Tigerbenna
argghhhh....mother of christ......it took schobel 3 years to come around....denney or kelsay or both will step up this year big time....if not mckenzie will do ok, it seems. Plus there are the june cuts. NO NEED TO SPEND THAT HIGH A PICK TO ADD TO THE NUMBER 3 D! We need QB, WR in 1st and 2nd...OL, FS, K and depth the rest of the way....

Washington defense in 2002: #5
Washington defense in 2003: #25

Miami defense in 2002: #3
Miami defense after adding Seau and Knight: #10

Denver defense in 2002: #6
Denver defense in 2003: #4

2nd round DEs three years ago:
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Aaron Schobel
Paul Toviessi
Willie Howard

four years ago:
Darren Howard
John Engelburger
Michael Boireau

last year first rounders:
Michael Haynes
Jerome McDougle
Calvin Pace
Tyler Brayton

no gurantees, either way.

[Vessel17]

Originally posted by Tigerbenna
NO NEED TO SPEND THAT HIGH A PICK TO ADD TO THE NUMBER 3 D!
Last year most did not see a need to spend picks or $ for FA on an offense piloted by a QB who threw for 4359 yards and 24 TD's, had a 1,400+ yd w/ 10+ TD RB, and had a Pro Bowl WR with an up and coming Pro Bowler on the way. Most thought that the TE's would do fine and that the OL had gelled. Guess most people were wrong... maybe we should had continued to add to what we thought our strength was? The reason I want a DE is so the pass rush is strengthened... a good pass rush equals more sacks/turnovers/TD's. Reason I want this over QB/WR: QB/WR will take time to develop and not in time to put us in the playoffs this year! A stronger running game and a healthy Moulds will help with the passing game.

Originally posted by Tigerbenna
it took schobel 3 years to come around... We need QB, WR in 1st and 2nd...
Good point... but there have been several DE's who have made major impacts their rookie years (Kevin Williams MIN/Dwight Freeney IND/Julius Peppers CAR/Jevon Kearse). Many more than rookie QB's or WR's. It also usually takes WR's 3 years to come around (Josh Reed) and QB's sometimes take even longer. So picking a QB/WR that high would only mean that we will have to wait to see returns on the investment.

If I had my way these things would happen 1.) Pick Udeze or Smith because we only have one potential "edge rusher" in Kelsay 2.) Pick Lee Evans in the 2nd round... but realize that no WR coming into the league not named Randy Moss becomes a superstar immediately 3.) Find a backup QB in Chris Redman, Tim Couch, Patrick Ramsey (I bet he could be traded for) if we are going for young guys. If we want a more "weathered" backup go with Kordell Stewart or Jeff Blake... then pick up a QB of the future in this draft or the next.

[billpa]

Originally posted by Tigerbenna
argghhhh....mother of christ......it took schobel 3 years to come around....denney or kelsay or both will step up this year big time....if not mckenzie will do ok, it seems. Plus there are the june cuts. NO NEED TO SPEND THAT HIGH A PICK TO ADD TO THE NUMBER 3 D! We need QB, WR in 1st and 2nd...OL, FS, K and depth the rest of the way....

Schoebel had 6.5 sacks, 8.5 sacks, 11.5 sacks
Denney had 0 sacks, 3.5 sacks, ?

There isn't much of a comparison right now. I'm still not sure which way they should go with the 1st pick but I won't complain if they pick a DE.

[Merk]

I'm not going to jump in on the argument of whether we should pick a DE or not because I already did enough of that in a thread i started(short version:I would be happy w/ a DE) But on the topic of who i would choose. I would have to say Smith because of he's faster and stronger ( 40 time and bench reps) but i'm also a little more biased towards him because I saw more Ohio State games than I did USC games, but from what I saw of Smith he was a machine