winslow

[dogginbox]

if thats the style of offense mularkey is truly committed to then we're going to need a stud TE


if winslow is there or we trade up from 13 i cant see them not taking winslow


regardless of his attitude , if he has the talent then we need him

[buffmaniac]

I have said all along that Winslow would be my pick in the first round. That said I don't think we are going to trade up in the draft and I hope some how he falls to us at #13. Crazier things have happened.

[dogginbox]

i think a lot of things depend on the chargers if they are committed to brees then that ruins our chances of guys falling to us cuz they wont be selecting a qb

[buffmaniac]

I think no matter what happens that Manning will be the #1. Either the chargers will take him or they will trade the #1 to someone else who would take him.

Sometimes teams don't want to take a TE in the top 10 because it isn't the highest priority position. I mean Shockey was taken what like 15th by Giants.

[dogginbox]

true but then again it comes down to what the team needs or if they decide to go by best player available


in the style of offense mularkey wants to run you need a good TE , hmmmm? maybe thats why pit was never that successful

[EvilBigD]

Winslow is not his Dad he is not even Jeremy Shocky, This guy is all TROUBLE

[mac60jus]

Originally posted by dogginbox
[TE , hmmmm? maybe thats why pit was never that successful [/B]
Ever heard of Mark Bruener? If not, he is one of the best Blocking TE in the Nfl, goes to the pro bowl every year, and plays for Pittsburg. Also the steelers signed JR from the Bills so pitt obviousily had good TE's.

[35Pete]

Two TE's is good from time to time but if you constantly use them for the running game then you are giving away our tendency to run. The result? 8 D-men in the box. So I do not consider TE to be a high priority. Nevertheless, if Winslow is there, take him. Then we could play a lot of 2 TE formations because he is like a WR.

[Bledsoe2Moulds973]

ya know, i think it would be a good pick, but i doubt that he will be around. I dont care if he is trouble, who else is trouble on the bills? No one! they need some energy and a leader that can get them fired up. Look at ray lewis, people say he is trouble...

[dogginbox]

Originally posted by mac60jus
Ever heard of Mark Bruener? If not, he is one of the best Blocking TE in the Nfl, goes to the pro bowl every year, and plays for Pittsburg. Also the steelers signed JR from the Bills so pitt obviousily had good TE's.




ummm were they really successful this season?

[dogginbox]

oh i agree you cant use double TE's in the running game all the time which is another reason why winslow is a good idea so we can pass out of that formation as well

[Napalm]

I would be all for getting Winslow too, but Trade up in the draft for him? I dunno about that

I think he goes to Detriot or Cleveland, but who knows? If he falls to us I think we'd snatch him up, but I like the Idea of taking udeze

[dogginbox]

i think detroit is taking a running back w/ their pick , if not i think they're pretty dumb


and cleveland is either taking a qb or a wr

[mac60jus]

Originally posted by dogginbox
ummm were they really successful this season?

They whole offense had a poor season. You can't base talent on one season, unless youw ant to say that the Buc's defense isnt' good.

[odieman]

Originally posted by napalmdeath
I would be all for getting Winslow too, but Trade up in the draft for him? I dunno about that

I think he goes to Detriot or Cleveland, but who knows? If he falls to us I think we'd snatch him up, but I like the Idea of taking udeze

I think you nailed it...Winslow if he falls to us, but most likely we'll get Udeze.

[kdhammond]

Why the heat on Winslow as trouble? The guy popped off stupidly in front of TV cameras one time when he was frustrated.

From the things that I've read, his coaches say he has been a team player, helped other teams, practices hard, etc.

Lots of guys who weren't real trouble have said stupid things from time to time.

[35Pete]

Originally posted by kdhammond
Why the heat on Winslow as trouble? The guy popped off stupidly in front of TV cameras one time when he was frustrated.

From the things that I've read, his coaches say he has been a team player, helped other teams, practices hard, etc.

Lots of guys who weren't real trouble have said stupid things from time to time.

Let's hope that his rap for being a toublemaker follows him so that he falls to #13!

[Whitner20]

:miller:

[TITUS]

:shakehead
ARRRRRGH . . . when is it going to get through people's heads that Winslow is going to SD???!!!! WE DON'T NEED HIM!!!! TD wouldn't have traded to get Campbell if he didn't think he could be developed . . . we have more important needs on the OL/DL than a TE . . . WE ARE NOT GETTING WINSLOW - SO PLEASE STOP

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by TITUS
:shakehead
ARRRRRGH . . . when is it going to get through people's heads that Winslow is going to SD???!!!! WE DON'T NEED HIM!!!! TD wouldn't have traded to get Campbell if he didn't think he could be developed . . . we have more important needs on the OL/DL than a TE . . . WE ARE NOT GETTING WINSLOW - SO PLEASE STOP


First off Winslow to SD. I guess then you expect SD to trade back in the draft because no way they take Winslow with the 1st pick. Secondly Campbell should not be the starter at TE. His receiving skills were average which most expected but worse than that was his below-average blocking which most said was his strength. Let me add that I have also heard TD mention that we needed upgrade at TE. If Winslow falls to us at #13 we will draft him.

[35Pete]

Originally posted by TITUS
:shakehead
ARRRRRGH . . . when is it going to get through people's heads that Winslow is going to SD???!!!! WE DON'T NEED HIM!!!! TD wouldn't have traded to get Campbell if he didn't think he could be developed . . . we have more important needs on the OL/DL than a TE . . . WE ARE NOT GETTING WINSLOW - SO PLEASE STOP

If SD doesn't take him Cleveland or Washington will surely snap him up.

[dogginbox]

i doubt that cleveland will take winslow when they need a wr cuz of the loss of northcutt

and washington is taking a rb if they dont pick one up through free agency


and in response to titus if san diego takes a TE w/ the 1st pick they will be laughed at

[35Pete]

Originally posted by dogginbox
i doubt that cleveland will take winslow when they need a wr cuz of the loss of northcutt

and washington is taking a rb if they dont pick one up through free agency


and in response to titus if san diego takes a TE w/ the 1st pick they will be laughed at

Winslow is a WR!!! He is just called a TE

[dogginbox]

san diego already has a TE

[TITUS]

Originally posted by dogginbox
i doubt that cleveland will take winslow when they need a wr cuz of the loss of northcutt

and washington is taking a rb if they dont pick one up through free agency


and in response to titus if san diego takes a TE w/ the 1st pick they will be laughed at

You mean the same way they were laughed at when they traded away the no. 1 pick in the draft to Atlanta {who used it to acquire Micheal Vick} and picked up LaDanian Tomlinson instead?

[dogginbox]

yeah who lost out on that deal?:scratch:

[TITUS]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
First off Winslow to SD. I guess then you expect SD to trade back in the draft because no way they take Winslow with the 1st pick. Secondly Campbell should not be the starter at TE. His receiving skills were average which most expected but worse than that was his below-average blocking which most said was his strength. Let me add that I have also heard TD mention that we needed upgrade at TE. If Winslow falls to us at #13 we will draft him.

OK, let me go through this slowly:

1. When did TD say we needed an upgrade at TE? If he said so before this past season . . . HELLO . . . THAT'S WHAT THE CAMPBELL TRADE WAS FOR . . . and even if he said so afterward, I'm QUITE CERTAIN he meant a low-round pick or bringing in a FA . . .

2. "Campbell should not be the starter at TE." Well, whom would you prefer, Moore, Neufeld, or Riemersma? Helluva choice, ain't it? If Campbell is sooooo bad, then why did TD trade for him? Our current coaching staff includes two who specialize at the TE position, and our HC is not only offensive-minded, but a former TE as well . . . the appropriate pat on the back - or foot in the rear - will be delivered to Campbell, and if he doesn't respond afterward, he'll be sent packing . . .

3. Earth to Buffamaniac and all others who feel we need Kellen Winslow as a first-round pick: WE DO NOT WASTE A FIRST-ROUND PICK ON AN OVERRATED-BECAUSE-OF-HIS-LAST-NAME-TE WHEN WE ARE ONE PASS-RUSHING DE AWAY FROM THE NO.1 DEFENSE OR ONE SOLID OL AWAY FROM A RETURN TO RESPECTABILITY AND CONSISTENCY ON OFFENSE.

Please stop the insanity

[TITUS]

Originally posted by dogginbox
yeah who lost out on that deal?:scratch:

You are joking, correct? LDT has been SD's only real player of late, and he has been durable - can't say that about Vick.

[odieman]

Originally posted by TITUS
You mean the same way they were laughed at when they traded away the no. 1 pick in the draft to Atlanta {who used it to acquire Micheal Vick} and picked up LaDanian Tomlinson instead?

San Diego got the last laugh cuz they got the #1 pick AGAIN !!!

[buddyboy]

IF Winslow is there when the Bills pick, that unless a trade offer comes along we couldn't refuse, I'd be willing to bet that we draft him. I expect the Bills to draft the best player available regardless of position (other than RB). Winslow is not rated as highly as he is because of his last name, just like Manning wasn't a few years back when he was the number one pick. He is rated as highly as he is because people with real football knowlege have studied lots and lots of film on him. They say he blocks as well as he receives. That said Winslow will still not be the number one pick (I'd be willing to bet as many chips as you would like titus) From what I have been reading SD is trying to trade out of the #1 spot and pick up an O tackle later.

[dogginbox]

titus we've drafted a de in the first round for like 3 seasons i think.

its not working , we need a new approach maybe get a de in free agency instead

[TITUS]

Originally posted by dogginbox
titus we've drafted a de in the first round for like 3 seasons i think.

its not working , we need a new approach maybe get a de in free agency instead

Please come back from Mars - and out of the box . . . in the past SIX drafts, the Bills have taken a DL in the first round exactly ONCE:

03 - Willis McGahee - RB
02 - Mike Williams - OT
01 - Nate Clements - CB
00 - Eric Flowers - DE
99 - Antoine Winfield - CB
98 - choice to JAX for RJ

[35Pete]

I wonder if Ben Troupe slips into the 2nd round? Probably not but he would also be a fine addition.

[Mouldsie]

Originally posted by EvilBigD
Winslow is not his Dad he is not even Jeremy Shocky, This guy is all TROUBLE

BUUUUULLLLL

Originally posted by mac60jus
Ever heard of Mark Bruener? If not, he is one of the best Blocking TE in the Nfl, goes to the pro bowl every year, and plays for Pittsburg. Also the steelers signed JR from the Bills so pitt obviousily had good TE's.

When did he make the Pro Bowl?




You want a great blocking TE go for Ben Watson of Georgia (he's fast too).

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by TITUS
OK, let me go through this slowly:

1. When did TD say we needed an upgrade at TE? If he said so before this past season . . . HELLO . . . THAT'S WHAT THE CAMPBELL TRADE WAS FOR . . . and even if he said so afterward, I'm QUITE CERTAIN he meant a low-round pick or bringing in a FA . . .

2. "Campbell should not be the starter at TE." Well, whom would you prefer, Moore, Neufeld, or Riemersma? Helluva choice, ain't it? If Campbell is sooooo bad, then why did TD trade for him? Our current coaching staff includes two who specialize at the TE position, and our HC is not only offensive-minded, but a former TE as well . . . the appropriate pat on the back - or foot in the rear - will be delivered to Campbell, and if he doesn't respond afterward, he'll be sent packing . . .

3. Earth to Buffamaniac and all others who feel we need Kellen Winslow as a first-round pick: WE DO NOT WASTE A FIRST-ROUND PICK ON AN OVERRATED-BECAUSE-OF-HIS-LAST-NAME-TE WHEN WE ARE ONE PASS-RUSHING DE AWAY FROM THE NO.1 DEFENSE OR ONE SOLID OL AWAY FROM A RETURN TO RESPECTABILITY AND CONSISTENCY ON OFFENSE.

Please stop the insanity

First TD said we needed an upgrade at TE after this season in an end of season wrap up show on Channel 7 to be specific

Secondly just because TD trades for someone doesn't make them good. I go by what I saw on the field and Campbell didn't do anything to impress me. He wasn't great receiver and quite often got beat when he was trying to block someone.

Third I have heard many people at Miami say Winslow is better than Shockey was and I don't think Shockey was too bad. Winslow would be a top TE this season.

Finally for your points about the DE and OL I agree. I would just look to free agency for those positions rather than the draft

If Winslow is around at #13 take him because he will be a special player and will contribute right away.

[dogginbox]

sorry titus i meant drafting a de the past few seasons not first rd

[statehack]

Well I would trade up for Winslow because he reminds me of Ben Coates and that would be awesome for both Henry and Drew....

But IF Udeze actually falls then I can't see Buffalo trading up.... I was under the impression Udeze was a #6-8 pick, but apparently some pros think he'll fall to #13

[TITUS]

Originally posted by buffmaniac

Secondly just because TD trades for someone doesn't make them good. I go by what I saw on the field and Campbell didn't do anything to impress me. He wasn't great receiver and quite often got beat when he was trying to block someone.

Third I have heard many people at Miami say Winslow is better than Shockey was and I don't think Shockey was too bad. Winslow would be a top TE this season.



Well, Campbell did something to impress me . . . remember week 2 vs. Jax, that pass he caught for a first down where he got his bell wrung yet still held on? If that had been Riemersma, think he would've held on? The fact that he wasn't a great receiver the rest of the year probably had a lot to do with his being underutilized by the HC and OC - just like a certain RB . . .

Winslow better than Shockey? Considering this past season, I don't know if that's saying very much . . . they both have a ways to go before they can be mentioned along with Gonzolez - and the fact that, besides Jr.'s dad, there are only five TE's in the HOF {Ditka, Mackey, Newsome, Casper, Smith} indicates just how rarely a special TE comes along . . . and I'm not saying Campbell belongs in this class, either; just that, like Bledsoe, he has the resources around him to be successful {two coaches who specialize at the TE position, plus a HC who's a former TE} - it will all depend on how much work he's willing to put in . . .

This isn't the best example/comparison, I know, but Mark Campbell is in a situation similar to Chris Watson: we all know how poor Watson was when he was here - he was "punt catcher" as a return man, and roasted more often than chestnuts at Christmastime as a nickel corner . . . the ONLY reason he was here as long as he was was due to one fact: we gave up two picks to Denver to get him. Anytime you give up something in trade to acquire someone, that someone will be kept around until the club feels it has gotten full value out of him in return, either by performance on the field or longevity. Since a low-round pick was given up for Campbell, I expect to see him around, at the very least, the next two years. . .

Winslow may very well turn out to be a good TE in this league, but a lot will depend on where he goes, how he's utilized, and how much work he puts in . . . he is not what we need right now . . . the O & D lines need to take priority.

[1968_bills_fan]

I agree with "Odieman" and several of the posters. We should take Winslow if he falls to #13, (or the DE or trade down for OL). At Miami, he usually lined up as a TE and then split out as a WR. With this view in mind, in the pro's I could see Buffalo use him in a similar fashion to the "K-gun" formation used by Kelly. This was not a "hurry-up offense", but rather the Bills would go quickly to the line of scrimmage to prevent substitutions. They would then stand-there for 10 seconds before the count while Kelly decided on the play and did an audible. Part of what made this work is that Thurmond could play the role of either a RB or a short-route WR. Winslow as a TE could also provide a mismatch with whatever defense set and personel were used. Some examples of what you could do with a TE, who suddenly becomes split out as a WR.

offense set......defensive set...... mismatch play
==============================================
TE 2RB 2 WR.....8 in the box.....split out TE = 3 WR
mismatch against a safety
TE 1RB 3WR ......4 DB......... split out TE = 4WR
2TE 1RB 2WR .....4 DB........ power run

If Henry learns how to pass block and if McGahee can catch flare passes, pitch outs and sneak thu the lines al-la Thurmond, there could be a lot for the defenses to worry about!

:radioacti

[D-Rocafella]

Winslow is the guy I would like to see the Bills pick up if he's still there. If he's gone then if another top 10 guy like Sean Taylor or Roy Williams drops to us then get them. If not the trade down to a late 1st rounder somewhere from 23-28 and pick up Jake Grove, then with the 2 second rounders get Ben Troupe, and another offensive lineman.

[mykiljonz]

As I have said before...A team that wins 6 games has more problems than drafting a TE that would touch the ball maybe 5 times a game in the 1st round. Trade down, get Grove. We have many more pressing needs than a TE.

When all is said and done, a TE is just NOT a need for a team, kind of like a fullback. A true Center IS a need, they touch the ball on EVERY offensive play.

If Bledsoe is on his back, who the hell cares who the TE is, he cannot catch the ball if Bledsoe cannot throw it. If Bledsoe is the QB, then a high O-line pick is a MUST. I know the new O-line coach is good, but do not expect him to be GOD.

[dogginbox]

yes but w/ the style of offense mularkey wants to run a good TE is important along w/ another decent TE

[1968_bills_fan]

35Pete: If Windslow is there at #13, we should grab him. Much better than drafting a WR at that spot, even if a top notch one is left. He is "mismatch city". If the D loads up against the run, line him up tight, check the defense, have him go in motion to a WR split and enjoy the mismatch against a strong safety. This is how the Miami Hurricanes used him in the bowl games. Windslow will force the D to defend him with a dime CB and this will help the running game-since he could always run a streak route. But I don't think he will drop to #13.:chugga: