Philly's Robert Echshe(G) injured...........

[starfirestar]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/recap?gid=2004020215

I don't want everybody getting upset over these rumors, but they make sense. With Esche going down to injury, Regier could command something very good from Philadelphia for one of our goaltenders.................. It makes sense, so don't bash me on this.

[The REAL Sabres]

Knowing Regier, I'll go: Biron, Brown, Zhitnik and a pick for Brashear, LeClair, Gagne, and Johnsson

[Forum21]

Regeir has waited this long, I think he's got some time before he moves a goalie. His team is playing well making a run for that last spot.

If they sabres hit another winless skid, look for a trade. The unfortunate part of this calculation is that you never know whether Biron will play a role in a losing streak as well.

[Jim Bob]

To me it all comes down to whether Golisano and Quinn want to pull the plug on this season.

I can't see Regier getting a deal done involving Biron that increases the Sabres' chances of making the postseason this year. The goaltending market is a buyer's market right now.

Plus, Biron is playing really well and Noronen isn't. Add in the fact that Miller has not looked good in his last two NHL starts, and I can't see the Sabres counting on Noronen and Miller to get them to the postseason.

I think this team will tease Golisano, Quinn, and Regier enough that they'll keep Biron, Zhitnik, and Satan, and try and make the playoffs.

[Forum21]

Originally posted by Jim Bob

Plus, Biron is playing really well and Noronen isn't.

I wouldn't say that. Biron is playing amazingly and took the starting job away from Noronen, who was playing well.

[Jim Bob]

Originally posted by jj@jj.com
I wouldn't say that. Biron is playing amazingly and took the starting job away from Noronen, who was playing well.

Mika is 0-3 with 10 goals against in his last 3 starts.

I wouldn't call that playing well.

Mika was playing well prior to the groin injury, but he hasn't done much of anything since he came back.

Although, he did look better in the 2-1 loss in Philly.

The other thing that worries me about Mika is that the team doesn't seem to play as well in front of him as they do in front of Marty.

Mika has the better GAA and Save% numbers, but he also has the worse record of the two.

And in Mika's 4 game losing streak, the team has only scored 4 goals for him.

Mika's record in January was 1-4.
Mika's record in December was 3-5-1.
Mika's best month was November and he was still only 3-3.

[LALAFONTAINE]

Noronen has also played against lesser teams than Biron has. He's beaten 3 playoff teams, or 4 depending on whether you think Calgary makes it.

Biron has beaten 7 playoff teams.

The difference in save percentage is a wash. Biron is at .917, Noronen is at .919. Take out Biron's worst game, his is at .923. Take out Noronen's worst game, his is at .922.

[bduff54]

could get very interesting!

[Forum21]

This is revisionist history. Most people were ready to hand the job to Noronen until Biron started smoking... I'm sure I can find over 20 threads to support this.

[RJ11]

yep JJ, I woulda rather had Mika starting before Marty's yearly hot streak started. Now we have no choice, we have to ride him for awhile, he's playing out of his mind. I was a BIG Biron supporter in past seasons, I'm just fed up with his streakiness. Hopefully this is it, he's finally made that jump to a quality #1. Unlike in past seasons, I'm not getting my hopes up this time.

[fweber73]

Originally posted by Jim Bob
I can't see Regier getting a deal done involving Biron that increases the Sabres' chances of making the postseason this year. The goaltending market is a buyer's market right now.

Plus, Biron is playing really well and Noronen isn't. Add in the fact that Miller has not looked good in his last two NHL starts, and I can't see the Sabres counting on Noronen and Miller to get them to the postseason.

I think this team will tease Golisano, Quinn, and Regier enough that they'll keep Biron, Zhitnik, and Satan, and try and make the playoffs.

Good post. We won't get much for Marty this season. There are several goalies on the market that can be had for a relatively low "cost". IMO, Biron will be a Sabre until at least the off-season and probably into next year at a minimum. This may not be such a bad thing.

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by jj@jj.com
This is revisionist history. Most people were ready to hand the job to Noronen until Biron started smoking... I'm sure I can find over 20 threads to support this.

Revisionist history? Not if you are talking about me. I had people saying how Ruff should have started Noronen. I was pretty consistent saying play the goalie who won the last game, unless he sucked.

[Forum21]

Originally posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Revisionist history? Not if you are talking about me. I had people saying how Ruff should have started Noronen. I was pretty consistent saying play the goalie who won the last game, unless he sucked.

Not so much directed at you, though the use of supporting stats leaves out the perception that Norenen was the emerging starter before he got hurt. This whole team was playing poorly, so it's hard to look at winning/losing records in certain months and point at a goal-tender. Noronen WAS NOT playing badly.

The good news as this debate is pretty much behind us now as long as Biron is stealing games, Mika sits. This is fine by me, I just don't want to see them try and start Marty next year (if there is a next year). We all knew he was going to do this.

[buffjoe]

If you don't get rid of one of these goalies you start next season exactly where you started this season - Too many goalies and not enough ice time. In my opinion it has to be "Marty and Miller" or "Mika and Miller" or "Mr. X and Miller". However you slice it one, if not two, of these guys HAVE to go irregardless of their trade value.

[Thumper]

Originally posted by jj@jj.com
This is revisionist history. Most people were ready to hand the job to Noronen until Biron started smoking... I'm sure I can find over 20 threads to support this.

I'll admit to it for sure...I probably started 15 of those threads.

I still think Noronen is the future of this team. But it's not like I'm hating every victory the Sabres get with Biron in net. I love seeing the kid succeed. I love seeing him stand on his head and get Jeanerette as excited as he was with Hasek's slinky spine saves. I'd love for Biron to turn the corner and be that go to guy for the Sabres in net.

But he's been a bit of a tease for the better part of 3 seasons....Always turning it on at the mid-way point, while in the first half of the season, playing below average. I don't know what it will take for him to play consistantly starting in 65 games someday.

Noronen seems to have become more stable in net in a much shorter time/career than Biron did. That's what leads me to think he will eventually be the better of the two.

I want to make the playoffs. For now, I'm happy with Marty making the big saves to win these games. I'm happy with him getting the starts because he's earning them. In the beginning of the season, he wasn't earning them, which is why I was so very pissed about the whole situation.

[Thumper]

Originally posted by Jim Bob

I think this team will tease Golisano, Quinn, and Regier enough that they'll keep Biron, Zhitnik, and Satan, and try and make the playoffs.

That seems like the most likely scenario.

[Buffalobro22]

Originally posted by Thumper
I'll admit to it for sure...I probably started 15 of those threads.

I still think Noronen is the future of this team. But it's not like I'm hating every victory the Sabres get with Biron in net. I love seeing the kid succeed. I love seeing him stand on his head and get Jeanerette as excited as he was with Hasek's slinky spine saves. I'd love for Biron to turn the corner and be that go to guy for the Sabres in net.

But he's been a bit of a tease for the better part of 3 seasons....Always turning it on at the mid-way point, while in the first half of the season, playing below average. I don't know what it will take for him to play consistantly starting in 65 games someday.

Noronen seems to have become more stable in net in a much shorter time/career than Biron did. That's what leads me to think he will eventually be the better of the two.


I want to make the playoffs. For now, I'm happy with Marty making the big saves to win these games. I'm happy with him getting the starts because he's earning them. In the beginning of the season, he wasn't earning them, which is why I was so very pissed about the whole situation.

I don't see how Noronen has become more stable in net, the save percentages are nearly equal. I can remember suggesting months ago I didn't think Noronen would be ready to be the full time starter and he hasn't done that. I was lambasted then for the mere thought. If he was ready to be a full time no. 1 he would have worked harder to get his job back after injury, he didn't do that. Noronen also has a worse win-loss, which is really what it's all about at the end of the day.

[BanditsRock11]

They had a quote from Dracy on Empire today saying that Marty is the man right now and won't be going anywhere. Im guessing that Mika isn't what philly would be really looking for however could be a fit for a while. I just don't know what theyd do with him when Echse returns.

[gibbons]

Esche's injury is only 3 weeks. Clarke will go with young goalie from AHL until Hackett gets back next week. (vertigo)

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by jj@jj.com
Not so much directed at you, though the use of supporting stats leaves out the perception that Norenen was the emerging starter before he got hurt. This whole team was playing poorly, so it's hard to look at winning/losing records in certain months and point at a goal-tender. Noronen WAS NOT playing badly.

The good news as this debate is pretty much behind us now as long as Biron is stealing games, Mika sits. This is fine by me, I just don't want to see them try and start Marty next year (if there is a next year). We all knew he was going to do this.

Noronen still isn't playing badly. I just don't think he was outplaying Biron as much as everyone else did, because Noronen wasn't able to put back to back performances together until December.

And when we were losing, Ruff would alternate goalies and Biron played more games than Noronen. That coaching decision made a hell of a lot of success, and still does. Ride the hot hand.

In terms of the future, it makes sense to deal Biron. We've seen this before, and we will see hot streaks again. The timing of a deal is an open question. Should we deal at the deadline or over the summer?

I also think Miller will be the best of the three.

[Thumper]

Originally posted by Buffalobro22
I don't see how Noronen has become more stable in net, the save percentages are nearly equal.

I'm looking at it from the amount of NHL playing time each netminder has played.

Noronen, playing behind the same team as Biron still has a better sv% and GAA in only 55 career games. He had the best numbers last year as well.

Biron has played in 223 career games and has gotten the majority of the starts again this year, which is fine if the team is going to be winning.

Noronen's progress as a budding #1 goaltender is moving at a quicker pace than Biron's ever was, numbers wise. That in turn leads me to believe that he will be the better of the two someday. You can take that point in whatever way you wish.


I can remember suggesting months ago I didn't think Noronen would be ready to be the full time starter and he hasn't done that. I was lambasted then for the mere thought. If he was ready to be a full time no. 1 he would have worked harder to get his job back after injury, he didn't do that. Noronen also has a worse win-loss, which is really what it's all about at the end of the day. [/B]

Lambasted is a bit of a stretch. You were lambasted for the chip on your shoulder more than anything else. No one ever questioned your hockey knowledge.

Noronen might still be playing well, but the injury hindered that. To say that he should have worked harder after the injury is based on what? Did you watch him practice and lift weights when he was cleared to play?

[The REAL Sabres]

Originally posted by gibbons
Esche's injury is only 3 weeks. Clarke will go with young goalie from AHL until Hackett gets back next week. (vertigo)

Like Anttii Niitymaaki or Neil Little??

Grrrreat idea!!!

[Buffalobro22]

Originally posted by Thumper
I'm looking at it from the amount of NHL playing time each netminder has played.

Noronen, playing behind the same team as Biron still has a better sv% and GAA in only 55 career games. He had the best numbers last year as well.

Biron has played in 223 career games and has gotten the majority of the starts again this year, which is fine if the team is going to be winning.

Noronen's progress as a budding #1 goaltender is moving at a quicker pace than Biron's ever was, numbers wise. That in turn leads me to believe that he will be the better of the two someday. You can take that point in whatever way you wish.



Lambasted is a bit of a stretch. You were lambasted for the chip on your shoulder more than anything else. No one ever questioned your hockey knowledge.

Noronen might still be playing well, but the injury hindered that. To say that he should have worked harder after the injury is based on what? Did you watch him practice and lift weights when he was cleared to play?

No, I watched him play in the games and not win. Working doesn't occur only in practices, he didn't perform in the games (when it only really matters), as well as he needed to. Winning is the bottom line, he didn't do that when he got back. More often than not this team needs the goalie to stand on his head, not just be above average. Biron seems to be doing that right now.

Your statements about stats can easily be looked at the opposite way, that when he does reach the amount of Biron's total games played, who's to say his numbers will be as good? They've each played well in spurts this season, and if rotating goalies gets us to the playoffs, go for it. Stats don't always tell the whole story. I think its interesting to see people, not you in particular, make excuses for Noronen, yet criticize Biron in the same instance. Truth be told, I don't know why, but I don't trust Noronen as the No. 1 for this team yet.