Listen Up! with mattrose

[Jro]

http://football2129.fantasy.sportsline.com/var/images/leagues/rfpo/listenup.jpg

Todays interview is mattrose992000... Here's his picture...

http://football2130.fantasy.sportsline.com/var/images/leagues/rfam/Matthew.jpg

And here's his interview...

FoSho: You are ovbiously a religious man, but do you feel that there needs to be a seperation from religion on politics? And how much of a seperation?
Matt: I believe in the seperation of church and state, but I think too many people today have that confused with seperation of church FROM state. Religion played a major role in the formation of this country and should continue to have an influence. I think a nation would be great if it based all decisions on Christian values, but I recognize that our nation is no longer the Christian nation that it once was. We are still a great nation in comparison to other nations, but the further we get from Christian values the worse off we'll be.

FoSho: What are the biggest problems you have with liberals?
Matt: I think they are inconsistent and therefore lack integrity. I think they have made the mistake of thinking that personal and public lives can be seperated into distinct compartments. I think they lack vision. I think they thrive when things are bad. I disagree with them on almost every issue.

FoSho: What our your thought on affermative action? And how affective do you think it has been so far?
Matt: I think it was an idea with good intentions, but I don't believe it works. I have always believed that the best way to right a previous wrong is to right it, not tip the scales the other way. The best way to fix the problem is to improve education all around so that all people in this country have a good chance to succeed through hard work and dedication.

FoSho: If you were a running for president, what would be your major issues?
Matt: I would continue to lower taxes because I believe government should be smaller as a whole. I would advocate decreased spending instead of hoping for increased revenues. I would also major on better control of our borders. I'd have a very hard stance against illegal immigration. I'd promise to try my hardest to find and remove illegal immigrants from within our borders. I'd continue being tough on terror. Overall I think Bush is doing most of the things I'd want to do.

FoSho: Whats the biggest problem in society today?
Matt: Sin. The fall of mankind opened the door for all the problems we have in our world today. Sins of pride, greed, envy, hate, selfishness, etc are the cause of all our problems. What is our society's biggest sin? I'd have to say pro-abortion laws. I think they are unconstitutional and disgusting.

FoSho: What are your feelings on the Patriot Act?
Matt: I think they are as good as the trustworthiness of the leader.

FoSho: What are your thought on the welfare system?
Matt: I think we were and would now be better off if people (through the church and other institutions) took care of the poor. The welfare system, run by the government, has too many holes and nurtures too much mediocrity or worse. I have compassion for those who truly need this kind of help, but I think the system is taken advantage of more often than not.

FoSho: What are some NEWS/POLITICAL websites you would like to share with us?
Matt: well, I'm sure most everyone knows about them, but www.drudgereport.com is my favorite. I especially like the link to Jonah Goldberg's articles.

FoSho: What is something about yourself that posters may not know?
Matt: I recently graduated from Bethany Bible College in New Brunswick as a pastoral ministry major and now have 12,800 dollars in debt. Feel free to send me some money (cash preferred over buffalo chips)

FoSho: What poster do you respect the most?
Matt: I think all the posters are great and I've thoroughly enjoyed this forum despite daily disagreements. I find Halbert pretty insightful, balanced and pretty intellectually honest.

Thats it for this interview... Waiting list of people too be interviewed is getting smaller so if you want to be interviewed just PM me... Thankz

[reeves84]

Not many surprises there, but nice job folks.

[mighty peace warrior]

Originally posted by Jrofosho



And here's his interview...


FoSho: Whats the biggest problem in society today?
Matt: Sin. The fall of mankind opened the door for all the problems we have in our world today. Sins of pride, greed, envy, hate, selfishness, etc are the cause of all our problems. What is our society's biggest sin? I'd have to say pro-abortion laws. I think they are unconstitutional and disgusting.

[/B]

Why abortion? Assuming you feel abortion is killing, why is it worse than killing someone with second hand smoke, drunk driving that results in someone else dying or any other way of killing someone? abortion is the worst thing in society today, worse than ethnic cleansing?

[reeves84]

Originally posted by Jrofosho


FoSho: If you were a running for president, what would be your major issues?
Matt: I would continue to lower taxes because I believe government should be smaller as a whole. I would advocate decreased spending instead of hoping for increased revenues.
[/B]

Well, we all know that Republicans are now in favor of more government, increased spending and massive debt generation, so that cuts Bushie out on those!

[Henry4MVP]

Nicely done, guys.

[matthew94]

Why abortion? abortion is the worst thing in our society because it kills the most people

[reeves84]

Originally posted by mattrose992000
Why abortion? abortion is the worst thing in our society because it kills the most people

Well, wars are pretty good, along with handguns, malaria, traffic accidents and suicide!

But at least abortion is constitutional in the States. We have finally advanced that far.

Some how I find the concept that abortion is a major problem in the world an apallingly parochial view. Looking at this small corner of the universe, I find it hard to believe that anyone could possibly think that. But then I have the disadvantage of having seen some of the Developing World, where they have real problems.

[jimmifli]

Originally posted by Jrofosho
I think they are inconsistent and therefore lack integrity.

I would like some clarification on this.

[Mehser]

Originally posted by reeves84

But at least abortion is constitutional in the States. We have finally advanced that far.



For me, this is one of my reasons for viewing abortion as a major issue. On the premise that abortion is taking a life, for some people abortion is legalized murder. The idea the one can end the life one's offspring with no penalty is appalling to a good number of people.

I think the idea that often, abortion is used and presented as a method of birth control also upsets many people.

[mighty peace warrior]

Originally posted by mattrose992000
Why abortion? abortion is the worst thing in our society because it kills the most people

wrong, duii kills more than abortion so does cancer

[mighty peace warrior]

Originally posted by reeves84
Well, wars are pretty good, along with handguns, malaria, traffic accidents and suicide!

But at least abortion is constitutional in the States. We have finally advanced that far.

Some how I find the concept that abortion is a major problem in the world an apallingly parochial view. Looking at this small corner of the universe, I find it hard to believe that anyone could possibly think that. But then I have the disadvantage of having seen some of the Developing World, where they have real problems.

Handguns do not kill people, morons with handguns do.

[Mr.Chimp]

First off, infectious deaseases kill the most people in the world, and in this ever increasing 'global age' they are more likely to spread.

[reeves84]

Originally posted by mighty peace warrior
Handguns do not kill people, morons with handguns do.

Agreed. It should have read homicides.

[matthew94]

I was talking about the biggest problem in our society in my eyes. I believe abortion kills the most people (many abortions aren't even counted b/c they are done illegally), abortion kills the most innocent of people, abortion is legal, etc. Those are the reasons I find it most detestable.

When I said liberals were inconistant and lacking integrity I was thinking of the dumbest ones. Like those who oppose having guns when they themselves have their own cozy security system that others cannot afford, or those who opposed the war because they want peace (when it's quite obvious war was a necessary step toward peace), or those who use the freedom they have because they're American to bash their own country day in and day out, or those who say they fight for the poor when in actuality all they do is teach them to be satisfied with something far less than excellence, or those who hate SUV drivers yet enjoy their private jets, etc.

[Mr.Chimp]

was talking about the biggest problem in our society in my eyes. I believe abortion kills the most people

Actually your wrong again, even in your society infectious diseases kill more people.

You should talk to a doctor. And they kill even more indiscriminantly then any social outkast that ever existed.

[BogusTrumper]

Originally posted by mattrose992000
I was talking about the biggest problem in our society in my eyes. I believe abortion kills the most people (many abortions aren't even counted b/c they are done illegally), abortion kills the most innocent of people, abortion is legal, etc. Those are the reasons I find it most detestable.

When I said liberals were inconistant and lacking integrity I was thinking of the dumbest ones. Like those who oppose having guns when they themselves have their own cozy security system that others cannot afford, or those who opposed the war because they want peace (when it's quite obvious war was a necessary step toward peace), or those who use the freedom they have because they're American to bash their own country day in and day out, or those who say they fight for the poor when in actuality all they do is teach them to be satisfied with something far less than excellence, or those who hate SUV drivers yet enjoy their private jets, etc.

That line really stuck out for me too, jimmifli.

It all depends on how you spin it doesn't it Matt?

Your using as an example those who oppose war because they want peace is really pretty funny. I mean in a funny way - because it seems so consistent rather than inconsistent.

What is the use of having freedom if no one uses it? I still say protest is the most American thing an American can do. Plus, I don't think that criticizing the decisions of our leaders is "bashing." You have to question things that don't seem right to you in order to get them changed.

You lost me with the welfare thing because it is so Rush. I don't even understand it. Welfare helps people go to school. It helps them find dare care so they can hold a job. It helps them get training for tech jobs. It is tied to education on life skills. It helps improve their lives and those of their families.

Liberals don't hate anyone.

[matthew94]

1. Chimp, I'm sure if you group infectous deseases together there are a lot, but abortion is a specific thing. Also, it doesn't even matter if abortion is not the number 1 cause of death numerically. In our society it is, in my estimation, the ugliest of the high numerical causes of death. And the interview asked my opinion, did it not?

2. Protest can be American, but it would be rediculous to say it's always good! It all depends on what you're protesting. If you're protesting the right to life for an unborn baby I'd consider that dumb. If you're protesting liberating the Iraqi people I'd consider that dumb too. Do they have the right to protest, yes...are they dumb to protest it, in my opinion, yes.

3. Opposing war because you want peace IS contradictory when its obvious that peace can only be found on the other side of war in the specific case. This highlights one of the major problems I have with most liberals and many conservatives. Their view is shortsighted. They dont' understand that the most valuable things in life take extreme measures to defend. They don't realize that the best things in life take time to obtain.

4. Many of the protesters were bashing Bush. I saw it on video.

5. Just because something sounds "rush" doesn't mean it's wrong. In fact, I'd say quite the opposite. He's almost always right.

6. Many liberals do hate people. It's silly of you to deny that. Many conservatives hate people too.

[BogusTrumper]

I enjoy being silly on occasion :D

[BogusTrumper]

Originally posted by mattrose992000
Just because something sounds "rush" doesn't mean it's wrong. In fact, I'd say quite the opposite. He's almost always right.

So do you, apparently ;)

[jimmifli]

Originally posted by mattrose992000
5. Just because something sounds "rush" doesn't mean it's wrong. In fact, I'd say quite the opposite. He's almost always right.

And there's that consistency integrity issue again. You are aware of Rush's history with welfare aren't you?

[matthew94]

Most people in the United States agree with Rush's content :)

[matthew94]

I am aware of the conservative stance on welfare and I agree with it.

[BogusTrumper]

I think he's referring to the fact that Mr. Limbaugh has received assistance himself.

[BogusTrumper]

Originally posted by mattrose992000
Most people in the United States agree with Rush's content :)

Really? Hmmmmm

:bunny:

[jimmifli]

I agree with it in theory only.

However:

Look at welfare strictly from the money side.

A welfare system reduces crime. If you view welfare as preventative policing it is actually a cost saving program.
(An ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure.)

I also agree that there is a lot of abuse. The problem is that there comes a point where stopping the abuse costs more than it saves.

Rush himself relied on welfare during his life. It seems hypocritical for him to now characterize welfare users the way he does.

[matthew94]

I don't agree with Rush because he's Rush. I agree with his stance on the issue. Just like I don't believe what Bill Bennett says because he's Bill Bennett, but because he's right. Personal history is not the determining factor in whether someone is right or wrong, the content of the statement is.

[jimmifli]

Originally posted by Jrofosho
they are inconsistent and therefore lack integrity

[matthew94]

You can find stuff in everyone's closet. You're talking about Rush a long time ago and gambling that he never denied. I don't know all the circumstances. I also never said conservatives always have full integrity. You make a good point though, in general

[jimmifli]

Originally posted by Jrofosho
thrive when things are bad.

This sums up Rush's career.

[matthew94]

really? I like Rush best when things are good. Then again, I guess people probably have different opinions of what good and bad times consist of.

[jimmifli]

He got his start by bashing "crack ho's and welfare cheats" when the economy was down.

Look, I agree with you that welfare diminishes personal responsiblity and is full of fraud (it also helps a lot of people through a temporary tough period in their lives). I just feel it is the most cost effective alternative.

BTW the idea that churches and charitable groups should handle it is a fantastic idea. Go ahead! Get started! How does a state run welfare system stop you?

[reeves84]

Originally posted by jimmifli
BTW the idea that churches and charitable groups should handle it is a fantastic idea. Go ahead!

Back to Dickensian London, Poor Houses and Alms Houses.

And I thought we had grown and developed!

[jimmifli]

I didn't say replace our system with a church run one. Selective quoting Reeves?

[reeves84]

Actually, I was making a general comment rather than a specific one. I was just using something you wrote because it was convenient and I was feeling lazy.

I do apologize.

[jimmifli]

me lazy 2

[BironsGirl43]

Aww.. another cute pic :)

That was a good interview.. I found it interesting!

You went to a bible college in New Brunswick though? That's cool.. how did you like it in Canada?

[Jro]

Actully i belive rush is a prime example of when the welfare system works... He couldn't find a job, so he got government help... He then found a job and has worked ever since... He didn't stay on the welfare system his whole life living off government money...

Isn't that the true intention on the welfare system? To help people who want to work but can't find a job?

[Henry4MVP]

Sort of an open-ended question for whoever wants to take it...

How many people do you personally know that are on welfare and have no plans of getting off it? Most of the people that I know who have taken government assistance are people who used it to help them when times were bad and then got off it when they didn't need it.

[Jro]

I personally do not know anyone on welfare, but then again no one excatly shouts it out and tells everyone... I think welfare is a great idea, but as most ideas, it gets abused...

I would imagine that about 15-30% of the people don't work hard at getting off welfare...

[EricStratton]

Originally posted by Henry4MVP
Sort of an open-ended question for whoever wants to take it...

How many people do you personally know that are on welfare and have no plans of getting off it? Most of the people that I know who have taken government assistance are people who used it to help them when times were bad and then got off it when they didn't need it.


A women sitting 20 feet from me is on public assistance (food stamps) and has no plans to stop. Most of her family (cousins, sister, neice) pull some sort of gov't checks and treat it the same way.

[BogusTrumper]

My experience has been the same as Henry's. And I'd like to say that the people I know were women who were faced with raising their children on their own. They used the assistance to get through college. They would never have taken it for themselves but the thought of not being able to provide for their babies is what prompted them to get on it to begin with. I applaud them and I think they are the strongest people I have ever met.

[Henry4MVP]

Originally posted by Jrofosho
I personally do not know anyone on welfare, but then again no one excatly shouts it out and tells everyone... I think welfare is a great idea, but as most ideas, it gets abused...

I would imagine that about 15-30% of the people don't work hard at getting off welfare...

:) Any particular reason for those numbers, or do they just sound good to you?

My father got assistance when he was laid off from his job when I was a kid. I'm not ashamed to say that we took what we could...we needed the help. My mother wasn't working at the time and he had two kids to feed. He got hired at a new plant and that was it for the dole. He's one of the hardest working people I've ever known, but I don't think his use of the system was the exception to the rule.

[JoeMama]

Originally posted by mattrose992000
I don't agree with Rush because he's Rush. I agree with his stance on the issue. Just like I don't believe what Bill Bennett says because he's Bill Bennett, but because he's right. Personal history is not the determining factor in whether someone is right or wrong, the content of the statement is.

So much for all that consistency & intergrity crap you were talking about. It's the end all of depravity when liberals are inconsistent but its okay when Rush does it!

Just amazing...

[Henry4MVP]

Originally posted by EricStratton
A women sitting 20 feet from me is on public assistance (food stamps) and has no plans to stop. Most of her family (cousins, sister, neice) pull some sort of gov't checks and treat it the same way.

I know a fellow who hasn't worked in quite a while and goes to huge amounts of interviews, but never really tries to get hired so he can keep his unemployment. It's not a perfect system, but I think it's very necessary.

[reeves84]

Originally posted by Henry4MVP
:) Any particular reason for those numbers, or do they just sound good to you?

My father got assistance when he was laid off from his job when I was a kid. I'm not ashamed to say that we took what we could...we needed the help. My mother wasn't working at the time and he had two kids to feed. He got hired at a new plant and that was it for the dole. He's one of the hardest working people I've ever known, but I don't think his use of the system was the exception to the rule.

I was on the British equivalent when I was laid off, in the good old days when you had to go and physically "sign on" every two weeks to prove you were really there. I had no problems accepting the money - when I work I pay into the system, when I am unemployed through no fault of my own I take out of the system. And I know most of the people there were really looking for jobs, and hated being unemployed.

It is called "National Insurance", and it is just that - paying when you work so you can collect benefits when you do not. Just like health insurance or life insurance.

[BogusTrumper]

Originally posted by Henry4MVP
I know a fellow who hasn't worked in quite a while and goes to huge amounts of interviews, but never really tries to get hired so he can keep his unemployment. It's not a perfect system, but I think it's very necessary.

I knew a guy like that who is a huuuuge Dittohead. Made me sick.

[BogusTrumper]

And he was always dogging people who claimed they couldn't get off welfare because they couldn't get a job. He always said McD's is hiring. He didn't take a job there.

[EricStratton]

Originally posted by Henry4MVP
I know a fellow who hasn't worked in quite a while and goes to huge amounts of interviews, but never really tries to get hired so he can keep his unemployment. It's not a perfect system, but I think it's very necessary.

I agree it’s necessary. I also think the system is so deeply imbedded with corruption and waste there is no way to fix it without scraping it and that’s not an option, it would hurt far to many people and putting up with the waste is a cost of doing business.

The shame is it is a system that can and does help millions of people and a small percentage could potentially ruin it for them.

[Henry4MVP]

Originally posted by BogusTrumper
And he was always dogging people who claimed they couldn't get off welfare because they couldn't get a job. He always said McD's is hiring. He didn't take a job there.

Nothing wrong with any gainful employment. If Mickey D's is all that's hiring, you take the frigging job. I really detest that attitude.

[Henry4MVP]

Originally posted by EricStratton
I agree it’s necessary. I also think the system is so deeply imbedded with corruption and waste there is no way to fix it without scraping it and that’s not an option, it would hurt far to many people and putting up with the waste is a cost of doing business.

The shame is it is a system that can and does help millions of people and a small percentage could potentially ruin it for them.

Yeah. There are bad apples in every basket. Hopefully the job market will pick up...it's been rough around here for awhile now.

[EricStratton]

It's actually not terrible in NJ but it could be better.

[JoeMama]

mattrose,

While its clear that you are a little on the insane side (believing in invisible people, talking animals, 900 year old people, worldwide flood, etc) I find it odd that you would hold so many double standards. A nice Christian kid like you, holding double standards... isn't that a form of "lying" to yourself?

You rip liberals for being "inconsistent" & therefore lacking integrity. But then you start spouting your love for Rush Limbaugh--the king of hypocricy & inconsistency.

Here is a guy who blasts liberals, draft dodgers, & anyone else who is cautious about jumping into war... when he himself got a deferment from Vietnam for an anal cyst.

Here is a guy who relates welfare recipients to "baby pigs suckling on the mother pig" when he himself lived off welfare for over a year of his life--avoiding real work--& eating only doritos! Odd, you'd think for a guy who loves capitalism so much, he'd understand that the economy fluctuates & there is nothing wrong with short term assistance for needy families. After all, 80% of welfare recipients are simply needy families where the main source of income was laid off--& only use the support temporarily. Wow, what abuse! No wonder you think welfare is so terribly abused... you listen to Rush for your information.

Here is a guy who considers himself a good Christian, yet calls defenseless children names. He referred to Chelsea Clinton as "the House Dog" while she was merely a teenager. I hate kids as much as the next guy, but no self respecting Christian should be mocking children for their appearance. Especially a fat, bald panzy like Rush.

But yeah, Rush is great. Who doesn't love a fascist, homophobic, white supremacist?

"Why should Blacks be heard? They're 12% of the population.
Who the hell cares."

Citizen service is a repudiation of the principles upon which
our country was based. We are all here for ourselves."

If we are going to start rewarding no skills and stupid people--
I'm serious, let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely
no knowledge whatsoever to do--let the stupid and
unskilled Mexicans do that work."

"We have more trees in this country today than when
the Declaration of Independence was written. The wackos
will tell you that's impossible."

You're lucky Jesus isn't alive. He'd be spinning in his grave if he knew you liked an anti-Christ like Rush!

[JoeMama]

When I'm dictator of America, dittoheads will be the first to die in concentration camps.

[Mehser]

Originally posted by JoeMama
When I'm dictator of America, dittoheads will be the first to die in concentration camps.

Even before children?????

[Jro]

JoeMama your taking small rush sound clips and spining them into your own opinion on him... I could do the same with any 1 of your post... But i have a certain amount of respect for the truth... I know you don't hate America, but i could pull quotes up that would make people think you do...

[Jro]

Also... You need to realize Rush is a political man with a political radio show... But he needs to entertain people... And he does... His ratings are higher then ever...

Why is it okay for you to call him fat and bald but he can't call chelsey clinton ugly?
http://srd.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=Chelsea++Clinton/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://galleries.news24.co.za/person/Clinton/images/06.jpg
What he said about listening to black people and who cares what they think... Im sure he was refering to Black Special Interest Groups led by idiots like Jesse Jackson... And in that case i agree... Who cares what they have to say... "They" being groups led by people like Jesse Jackson...

[mighty peace warrior]

how did this turn into a bash rush thread, not that i mind? Matt when you express your opinion expect people to question it, you opened yourself up for it when you did the interview. People want to know why you think the way you do its natural curiostity.

i bet anyone could find a modern photo of C. Clinton where she looks decent. As much as i hate to agree with JoeM it is in poor taste to attach a child(teenager) about their appearance. Why is it ok to do this, if it was your child i doubt it would be ok, because her dad was president she deserves it? Where are those republican family first, christian values?

[JoeMama]

Originally posted by Jrofosho
Also... You need to realize Rush is a political man with a political radio show... But he needs to entertain people... And he does... His ratings are higher then ever...

Why is it okay for you to call him fat and bald but he can't call chelsey clinton ugly?

If you read my post, you'd know why.

He claims to be a Christian, yet he's a terrible human being who picks on the insecurities of children.

Christianity & evil people. Two things that seem to go hand in hand...

Here's a repost, just for your Jro. "Here is a guy who considers himself a good Christian, yet calls defenseless children names. He referred to Chelsea Clinton as "the House Dog" while she was merely a teenager. I hate kids as much as the next guy, but no self respecting Christian should be mocking children for their appearance. Especially a fat, bald panzy like Rush."

My point is clear.

[JoeMama]

Originally posted by Jrofosho
JoeMama your taking small rush sound clips and spining them into your own opinion on him... I could do the same with any 1 of your post... But i have a certain amount of respect for the truth... I know you don't hate America, but i could pull quotes up that would make people think you do...

Idiots show their true colors when they try to defend Rush Limbaugh.

Quotes can be taken out of context. But a handful of the ones I listed speak for themselves--& speak volumes about what Rush is really about. Hate & misinformation.

The one where he claims there are more trees in America today than when our founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independence. He's technically right, because America had not yet made the Louisianna Purchase. Spin, spin, spin.

By the way, how do you rationalize that quip about Mexicans? I don't care what context you put that one in, its still racist as hell. Knock yourself out, kiddo! I'd love to see you trip over yourself in his defense...

Also, Rush may not think 13% of the population is important, but he ought to considering that Bush won the election by about 500 votes. Had there not been roadblocks up in black neighborhoods on voting night, Rush might have to deal with Al Gore as the president.

[Jro]

Originally posted by JoeMama
Bush won the election by about 500 votes. Had there not been roadblocks up in black neighborhoods on voting night

Flat out Lie... That was said on election night... It was investigated and turned out to be a myth...

About the mexican "Racist" remark... Are you trying to pretend that mexicans that come here illegaly aren't unskilled? And they generaly work for cheap...

Also thankz for the repost... However it was just as ignornant the second time... It is very sexist of you to assume that Chelsey can't put up with alittle criticism... She can stand on her own two feet without the help of you Joe...

I do have to give you some credit though Joe... It's not everyday that i talk to someone who has NEVER made fun of the way someone looks... You deserve a cupcake!

[Jro]

Originally posted by mighty peace warrior
i bet anyone could find a modern photo of C. Clinton where she looks decent.
http://srd.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=Chelsea++Clinton/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/graphics/2002/04/19/tenbush19.jpg

[Mehser]

Originally posted by JoeMama


Christianity & evil people. Two things that seem to go hand in hand...



Not all, or even a majority of, Christians are evil. Non-Christians can be evil too.

[JoeMama]

Flat out Lie... That was said on election night... It was investigated and turned out to be a myth...

I live in Florida, kiddo. I know people who experienced it first hand. I'm aware of what happened. What makes you think you have such inside information...?

You're wrong.

It happened.

About the mexican "Racist" remark... Are you trying to pretend that mexicans that come here illegaly aren't unskilled? And they generaly work for cheap...

You ignored the "stupid" part & you ignored it for a reason. It has no justification. Just because you work a manual labor job doesn't make you stupid.

Also thankz for the repost... However it was just as ignornant the second time... It is very sexist of you to assume that Chelsey can't put up with alittle criticism... She can stand on her own two feet without the help of you Joe...

Haha... that's quite a spin job. Since I think Rush is a jerk for picking on children's appearances, that makes me a sexist. Do you think children deserve hurtful remarks just because some slovenly pig disagrees with their parents' politics? Do you think its a classy thing to do?

My point: making fun of a child's physical appearance is classless, it is hurtful, & it is uncalled for. Also, Rush ought to look in the mirror before he criticizes ANYONE's appearance.

I do have to give you some credit though Joe... It's not everyday that i talk to someone who has NEVER made fun of the way someone looks... You deserve a cupcake!

Rush claims to be a Christian, then he makes fun of the insecurities of children. What a nice guy. I'm glad he has your support. Compassionate conservatism is really something...

[Jro]

Originally posted by JoeMama
You ignored the "stupid" part & you ignored it for a reason. It has no justification. Just because you work a manual labor job doesn't make you stupid.

I didn't respond to the stupid remark becuase i realize when people get worked up over something they "Flip" for a lack of a better word... Without knowing rush that is all i can say about that... But i myself say things i don't mean when i get in an heated debate... It's a flaw us humans have...

Chelsey was no kid when he made those remarks... Plus you and I both may be taking it out of context... Prehaps he was refering to the fact that Hillary and Billy treated her like she was a dog... He certinly wasn't spending time with her when he was with his lady friends...

Originally posted by JoeMama
Rush claims to be a Christian, then he makes fun of the insecurities of children. What a nice guy. I'm glad he has your support. Compassionate conservatism is really something...
So it's okay for you to make fun of people because you don't claim to be a christian?


Also if you care to shed some factual information on the Road Blocks in black neighborhoods then it would help your wacko claim...

[JoeMama]

I didn't respond to the stupid remark becuase i realize when people get worked up over something they "Flip" for a lack of a better word... Without knowing rush that is all i can say about that... But i myself say things i don't mean when i get in an heated debate... It's a flaw us humans have...

Ah, so he was in such an intense rant that he couldn't refrain from calling Mexicans stupid!

Whatever...

Chelsey was no kid when he made those remarks... Plus you and I both may be taking it out of context... Prehaps he was refering to the fact that Hillary and Billy treated her like she was a dog... He certinly wasn't spending time with her when he was with his lady friends...

He made them all throughout Clinton's presidency. She was a mere teenager when he started rolling out the mean-spirited comments. Have you never listened to the bastard's radio show?

So it's okay for you to make fun of people because you don't claim to be a christian?

This isn't about making fun of PEOPLE. This is about unabashedly making fun of CHILDREN. I don't know if you're an adult, but would you go on the radio & start bashing a teenager's looks simply because you dislike their parent's politics? Answer the question!

He can make fun of people's looks all he wants, but its wrong to beat up on children for something they can't help just because you dislike their parents.


Also if you care to shed some factual information on the Road Blocks in black neighborhoods then it would help your wacko claim...

All I can do is refer you to some folks around Dade/Broward County who experienced them. The only "evidence" for a situation like this is personal testimony.

[Jro]

Originally posted by JoeMama
I don't know if you're an adult, but would you go on the radio & start bashing a teenager's looks simply because you dislike their parent's politics? Answer the question!


No i wouldn't... But if i did, would that make everything i said wrong?

If the worst thing you can come up with for why rush is a bad person is that he made fun on a 17 year old girl, then rush seems like a nice guy... Thousands of hours of radio in his life and the worst thing he's done is made fun of a young adult...

[JoeMama]

You really can't read, can you?

Go back in the thread. I pointed out why he's a hypocrite a few times over!

[Mehser]

One issure oftern overlooked on this whole Florida mess is the the networks awarding the state to Al Gore before the polls in Florida closed. This almost definetly lowered Bush's election totals from the state.

[matthew94]

I have no problem with being questioned about something I say. Sometimes I say dumb things because of not thinking something through all the way, not thinking about how it will be read, not being fully informed etc. When I make an error I'll own up to it.

Joemama...you post in such a way that there is no debating you. One could fully refute each point you made and you'd just switch to another point that was refuted long enough ago that people have forgotten. Yet, you are good enough with language to come across loud enough that counterarguments can't be heard. But in the end, you are simply wrong on nearly everything I've seen you comment on.

I have no allegiance to rush limbaugh, sean hannity, worldnetdaily, jonah goldberg, or billy graham except that i think they are right very often. I hope they have good character and intergrity, but I don't know them personally. That doesn't change their rightness. There are people I do know personally that have incredible character and integrity. The best people I know on this earth are conservative Chritians. Real Christians that are humbled by what Christ has done for them.

I back off my earlier statement that liberals are inconsistant and therefore lacking integrity since it has caused so much anger and disagreement. I didn't mean it to come across that conservatives are perfect. Nobody is perfect. My major problem with liberals is that I think they are wrong.

The reason I come to this site is because I looked at it a few times and there was so much misrepresentation of the Bible that I felt it my duty to defend God's Word because I believe it's God's Word with every ounce of my being. You can make fun of me because I believe what the Bible says since you seem to enjoy that. I'd rather stay true to Scripture than be approved of by you.

Joemama, I find your tactics of debate immature. You seem to really hate conservative Christians. I'm guessing you've been wronged by them at some point(s) in your past. If not, why are you so angry with them? I find it hard to believe that you don't think there are genuine Christians that truly love and care about people, yet recognize that sin is deadly.

Bottom line, it does not appear we are on the same wavelength :) And the more I read your posts the further apart we are on beliefs. I suggest we stop with the name calling, the posts that need editing, etc..and just grow up...recognizing that we disagree and we're not going to convince eachother.

[jimmifli]

Matt,

Since you haven't been here that long you probably don't know much about JoeMama. He is actually two people. Well sort of - He is errrr they are conjoined twins. You see the Joey we hear from is actually the right twin. He is a smart, insightful, well informed and slightly satirical man. The twin on the left never grew up. Some times when Joey isn't paying attention, left-twin writes things that Joey didn't mean.

Some of the posters on this site ignore left-twin's silly rantings and only pay attention to the stuff that is insughtful. Other posters can't stand him and ignore everything he says. If you can manage to ignore left-twin you can find some insight once in a while.

[Mr.Chimp]

Matt,

Since you haven't been here that long you probably don't know much about JoeMama. He is actually two people. Well sort of - He is errrr they are conjoined twins. You see the Joey we hear from is actually the right twin. He is a smart, insightful, well informed and slightly satirical man. The twin on the left never grew up. Some times when Joey isn't paying attention, left-twin writes things that Joey didn't mean.

Some of the posters on this site ignore left-twin's silly rantings and only pay attention to the stuff that is insughtful. Other posters can't stand him and ignore everything he says. If you can manage to ignore left-twin you can find some insight once in a while.

OMG, jimmifli. what did you just write? Are you on the 'real world'. That is the whitest post ever I have ever read.:gabgab:

[matthew94]

haha, well thanks for the info. I do enjoy some of his posts. I'll do my best to respond to those one's and not the others which tend to frustrate me.

[EricStratton]

Originally posted by Mr.Chimp
OMG, jimmifli. what did you just write? Are you on the 'real world'. That is the whitest post ever I have ever read.:gabgab:


What makes this a white post?

[reeves84]

And what is a white post?

[EricStratton]

Originally posted by Mehser
Not all, or even a majority of, Christians are evil. Non-Christians can be evil too.


Stop being logical damnit.

[reeves84]

http://www.barna.org/cgi-bin/PagePressRelease.asp?PressReleaseID=105&Reference=B

A fairly reputable source, I think.

The evangelical segment encompasses some 15 to 20 million adults in the United States. Demographically, they are more likely than most other adults to have a college degree (29%), to be married (68%), to have children under 18 living in their household (50%), and to be white (81%). They are less likely to have experienced a divorce than any of the other faith segments. They were the only segment among the five for which a majority are affiliated with the Republican Party (58%), although more than four out of ten evangelicals are not associated with the GOP. Half of the group lives in the South, and nearly half (45%) are Baby Boomers.

Attitudinally, evangelicals are more than twice as likely as the rest of Americans to describe themselves as "mostly conservative" on social and political issues (70% do so), and are the least likely to describe themselves as "stressed out" (22%), "concerned about the future" (66%), struggling with debt or finances (30%), and actively "searching for meaning and purpose in life" (20%).

Evangelicals are vastly different from others on moral issues. They are the only group among which a majority (68%) base their moral decisions on the Bible or religious teaching and the sole segment that is more likely to believe in absolute moral truth (58%) than to say that moral choices are relative to the individual and the circumstances (i.e., relativism - 27%). Consequently, their moral views were significantly different from those of every other segment in relation to all 15 of the moral issues examined in the research. They were the least likely to describe cohabitation, gay sex, pornography, profanity, drunkenness, abortion and divorce as morally acceptable behaviors.

They are less likely to have experienced a divorce than any of the other faith segments

[EricStratton]

Good site Reeves.

Interesting stuff.

[JoeMama]

Joemama...you post in such a way that there is no debating you. One could fully refute each point you made and you'd just switch to another point that was refuted long enough ago that people have forgotten. Yet, you are good enough with language to come across loud enough that counterarguments can't be heard. But in the end, you are simply wrong on nearly everything I've seen you comment on.

So refute my points! I'm waiting.

I haven't avoided any arguments.

I have no allegiance to rush limbaugh, sean hannity, worldnetdaily, jonah goldberg, or billy graham except that i think they are right very often. I hope they have good character and intergrity, but I don't know them personally. That doesn't change their rightness. There are people I do know personally that have incredible character and integrity. The best people I know on this earth are conservative Chritians. Real Christians that are humbled by what Christ has done for them.

Good, I'm glad you're willing to admit that your "liberals are inconsistent & therefore lack intergrity" comments was stupid. Because you can't simultaneously pimp Rush & hold such an opinion. It would imply YOU lack consistency.


The reason I come to this site is because I looked at it a few times and there was so much misrepresentation of the Bible that I felt it my duty to defend God's Word because I believe it's God's Word with every ounce of my being. You can make fun of me because I believe what the Bible says since you seem to enjoy that. I'd rather stay true to Scripture than be approved of by you.

You haven't cleared up any contradictions for me. You haven't explained why a book that is thousands of years old & has been translated & re-translated from dead languages by Greeks, Hebrews, Monarchs, companies, etc, is so legitimate. You simply listed a series of "guidelines" to avoid taking the Bible out of context, but you didn't specifically refute anything. Oh wait, you did explain that animals can talk if Satan makes them (as if that's any more believable). I do my homework, I post my beefs. I don't get too many good refutations though.

Joemama, I find your tactics of debate immature. You seem to really hate conservative Christians. I'm guessing you've been wronged by them at some point(s) in your past. If not, why are you so angry with them? I find it hard to believe that you don't think there are genuine Christians that truly love and care about people, yet recognize that sin is deadly.

There are tons of genuine Christians out there. I've said there are exceptions a million times on these boards. Don't lie, it's a sin.

[JoeMama]

Originally posted by jimmifli
Matt,

Since you haven't been here that long you probably don't know much about JoeMama. He is actually two people. Well sort of - He is errrr they are conjoined twins. You see the Joey we hear from is actually the right twin. He is a smart, insightful, well informed and slightly satirical man. The twin on the left never grew up. Some times when Joey isn't paying attention, left-twin writes things that Joey didn't mean.

Some of the posters on this site ignore left-twin's silly rantings and only pay attention to the stuff that is insughtful. Other posters can't stand him and ignore everything he says. If you can manage to ignore left-twin you can find some insight once in a while.

Hating religion automatically makes me a leftist...? We've had a number of talks about economics & you're still going to pull this "joe is a liberal" nonsense. Just incredible.

This is one of your weaker posts, jimmi.

[jimmifli]

Not at all Joe.

Your right slanted arguments are cool, calculated and insightful, so far I have always agreed with you.

Your leftwing posts are of the cuff insults written out frustrated anger. If you wrote your lefty stuff with less emotion we would be able to get more out of it. Your point is often lost in your fury.

I think my post sums you up pretty well.

Right Joey - adult.
Left Joey- bratty child.

You are always well informed but sometimes people don't want to listen.

BTW my view of religion is on par with yours, as you probably know. Politically we differ very little (maybe international policy). I don't view you as a liberal. I view you, (along with me) as a fiscally conservative social liberal.

I hope that clears it up.

[JoeMama]

So I tackle socially liberal issues with too much "fury"?

If I'm condescending, its because I find religious beliefs inane & childish... so I respond to them in kind.

You used to tackle religious issues pretty well before you become a moderator. I remember you calling jjm's beliefs rephrehensible. It was great. When did you become too holy for an unfriendly debate?

At any rate, I don't want to turn this thread into a "lets analyze JoeMama" thread. But I don't see you refuting many of my crazy "leftist" stances either. If you think my points are "lost" in my fury, why don't you step up to the plate & prove me wrong.

I'm all ears.

[jimmifli]

Your new thread is perfect. Intelligent debate. A few pokes. No name calling. You may actually get some real debate out of matty instead of a "ya well Rush said...."

I never called them crazy. You won't see me refute them.

[JoeMama]

We'll see. Longwinded posts rarely get any responses, no matter how well thought out...

[mighty peace warrior]

longwinded posts are usually boring......why not just cut and paste no one reads that either

[Halbert]

Originally posted by Jrofosho
FoSho: What poster do you respect the most?
Matt: I think all the posters are great and I've thoroughly enjoyed this forum despite daily disagreements. I find Halbert pretty insightful, balanced and pretty intellectually honest.

Wow. I just saw this. Thanks. I'm humbled at the compliment.

[Halbert]

Originally posted by Jrofosho
Flat out Lie... That was said on election night... It was investigated and turned out to be a myth...
Dayem. That is not at all what I've found on numerous investigations. But perhaps I missed something. Can you please provide a source?

[matthew94]

joemama. I just saw your other thread. I will get to it within the next couple days. My girlfriend is visiting right now and i might not see her for six months so i'm putting extensive posting on hold for a few days. I liked your post though, thanks for the questions! Talk to you later

[BogusTrumper]

Originally posted by Halbert
Dayem. That is not at all what I've found on numerous investigations. But perhaps I missed something. Can you please provide a source?

Honest to God, I'm not being a smart ass or anything but I've heard Rush basically say that it's a myth many times. I don't think there is a source to confirm this. I think Rush just knows that if he says it enough, then people will believe it. And they do.

[EricStratton]

I was in Florida (Melbourne and Chiefland) the Christmas after the election and again last summer and read in the local papers about investigations concerning many of these allegations (roadblocks etc). The papers found these allegations baseless on local levels.

No I don’t have links, it was a long time ago.

On a cynical note I have a hard time believing in the information age we live in where there is a reporter or a person with a video camera around every corner that there would be no proof of this conduct splashed on every front page and every news show every night.

[BogusTrumper]

It didn't happen anywhere? Or it didn't happen in the communities whose local papers you read?

I do know that they turned a lot of people away at the polls. People didn't get in to vote before it was closed. And that many people were purged from voter registration lists erroneously.

[EricStratton]

Originally posted by BogusTrumper
It didn't happen anywhere? Or it didn't happen in the communities whose local papers you read?

I do know that they turned a lot of people away at the polls. People didn't get in to vote before it was closed. And that many people were purged from voter registration lists erroneously.

The papers only did investigations in the areas they are. That being said in Chiefland (Levy County) it’s redneck central so if it was to happen that would be a prime place to do it.

I’m not saying voter problems didn’t happen (and I’m sure they happened all over the country) but to think it was completely one sided is looking at the situation with an agenda.

[BogusTrumper]

What did the commission come up with?

[EricStratton]

What commission?

[Halbert]

I was in Florida (Melbourne and Chiefland) the Christmas after the election and again last summer and read in the local papers about investigations concerning many of these allegations (roadblocks etc). The papers found these allegations baseless on local levels.

No I don’t have links, it was a long time ago.

On a cynical note I have a hard time believing in the information age we live in where there is a reporter or a person with a video camera around every corner that there would be no proof of this conduct splashed on every front page and every news show every night.
I agree. But I clearly recall seeing video of people being restricted from going into the voting location and they were very agitated. Perhaps this was a classis TV news ploy of showing a small crowd and implying it was wider spread, I don't know. Do a search and you'll see there are many people who are convinced it did happen, which doesn't mean it did or didn't.

If it did happen I think part of the problem is that the minorities that went out to vote waited until the last second. Those counties, as I recall, didn't need preregistration, they had a process for people to register on the spot. Problem was that there were so many unregistered voters that showed up in the last few hours that the system simply couldn't handle it. There was some discussion of keeping the polls open longer than planned to accomodate those voters, but it didn't happen and I can sort of understand why. People knew the rules before hand, or should have. But if it was a breakdown in the system then perhaps they should have made some last minute accomodations. There certainly were votes lost by Gore as a result, but the numbers could be anywhere from the tens to the hundreds.

Even if it didn't happen, this isn't the real issue. To me there are two obvious issues.

1 - More people intended to vote for Gore than Bush. Combine all the data on the recounts (Bush wins most scenarios by a matter of a few hundred votes), the Butterfly Ballot (conservative estimates have Gore losing at least 2000 votes), the absentee ballots (last I saw it was almost exactly even), and the minority voting problem and it's clear Gore would have won if every vote was counted. That, of course, is impossible (especially then!) but Bush won on a series of errors, breaks and intentional subterfuge. To state anything else is at least lying to ourselves.

2 - Bush's team suppressed the SINGLE BEST WAY to determine voter intent – a manual recount. I suspect that the democrats probably would have done the same thing but that’s really immaterial. What we do know is that in a country that claims to be based more than anything else on the “one person one vote” philosophy, there was an intentional (and successful) effort to subjugate that crucial right. I find it utterly disgusting that we allowed power and greed to overcome the most cherished underpinning of our society.

If you’re tempted, please don’t bother with any crap about the ballots not being reliable so we had to go with the machine count. That’s horsesh_it. The makers of those machines publicly state that there is a consistent 3% error in the counting of ballets. In close races they recommend a hand recount, and there was enormous precedence for it to be done, both within Florida and everywhere else in the country. In fact, just a few months after that election there was the opposite situation in an Illinois race where a Republican successfully got a hand recount and won. A hand recount done by a teams of members from both parties and impartial observers would be ENORMOUSLY more accurate than any other method. Perfect? No way. The best available option? You bet.

One day I’d like to see us admit to the world that we intentionally sabotaged that recount. I suspect it will be many years after we’re all long dead.

[EricStratton]

I agree with most of your post except for the last line. I don’t buy the “intentionally sabotaged that recount” part.

Were mistakes made, yes. Mistakes are made in elections all over the country.

Was there corruption in Florida, there probably was in some districts. Is there corruption all over the country, yes. There were thousands of votes lost in the last Newark mayors race, an entire town in Long Island voted for Hillary, people had trouble registering in Florida, Tim Russert called the election to early, my registration was lost (as an Independent) in the 1992 Presidential race and the 1993 Governors race in Edison NJ and it took me 3 hours to vote.

The question then becomes at what point is a line drawn. Do you recount just Florida or do you recount every vote in every state. Do you recount only the districts in question and then how do you determine which ones.

The system we use is not perfect but it’s been working for 200 years.

[Halbert]

Hmmm. Very interesting. I must be more biased than I thought. I'd expect that perspective from a hard core conservative but not anyone close to a moderate, which you certainly are.

To me this was different because it was so razor thin. In the overwhelming majority of elections the 3% (actually I think they said "up to 3% so the error rate is likely smaller) would not have mattered. IMO, we should recount every vote where the margin of error could have an impact on the outcome - especially in the Presidential election!! Why wouldn't we count votes in that situation? I'm sure we have the money and if not I'd pay an additional $0.50 a year in taxes to pay for recounts in those conditions.

Forgive me, but defending the system based on 200 years seems to be ignoring the obvious. It did not work in this case, in fact it failed us miserably. In the most important election we hold in this country. We had an option to take the best, most accurate course of action and we did not.

From my perspective we had people and a process ready to count all those votes and it definitely should have continued. It is obvious now that Bush would still have won because all we can count is the ballots (not the butterfly, etc.) which is the fairest way to do it. That's not the point. To me it is painfully obvious that it was only political manuevering that kept it from being done. What would be a good reason NOT to do it? I haven't heard one yet but perhaps I missed something.

If I am biased please somebody tell me where.

[EricStratton]

You’re not bias and I’m not defending a 200-year-old system, just stating that it’s worked up til now.

The box that once opened can never be closed is what counts as close enough to hand-count? Is it 3%, is it 5%, is it 2%. Is it only national elections or do you do it with state and local elections. Do you only do it if there is accusations of fraud or is it automatically done or does a judge have to order it?

I’m just asking questions, I don’t pretend to know the answers.

[Halbert]

Ok, I see. We're closer than I thought at first.

Personally I'd have hand recounts in all close elections, but that's probably not reasonable. I do feel that a hand recount for the Presidency is plenty reasonable enough.

And I'm sure I am biased, it's just a question of degree. I can't even fathom an honest perspective that says those votes shouldn't have been manually recounted. Since you apparently do then I am obviously biased to some extent.

[reeves84]

If there truly is a defined margin of error, and if hand counting truly has a LOWER defined margin of error, then it could be auromatic in all cases where the difference between the candidates is less then the margin of error.

Not perfect, but everything is defined, so the question of when it is done is automatically answered.

[Halbert]

Zackly my thoughts. It's probably an oversimplification but you can't tell me there isn't a MUCH better way, especially for important elections.

[Mehser]

I am not sure that hand recounts are the most accurate. That is a method that has the most human influence involved and most of us aren't perfect. (Well, except for all of us)

[matthew94]

FoSho: What are the biggest problems you have with liberals?
Matt: I think they are inconsistent and therefore lack integrity. I think they have made the mistake of thinking that personal and public lives can be seperated into distinct compartments. I think they lack vision. I think they thrive when things are bad. I disagree with them on almost every issue.

Thanks for allowing us to post here. I was reading this answer and wanted to change it. It was a very unfair generalization of a group of people. Not only are many on the left quite consistent, but many of them also have strong integrity. Both 'sides' of the political spectrum have members that are inconsistent and/or lack integrity. This was a serious overstatement. I apologize.

My new answer to the question would be an expansion of the second and third line. I think those on the left that said Clinton's failures in his private life were meaningless and distinct from his leadership as President were way off. I also find that the left is far more anti-republican than they are democrat these days. And that's pretty sad.