a little closure: TSN rates the top goalies!!!

[bduff54]

TSN , just rated the top 10 goalies of all-time. they had sawchuk, Dryden, Hall amongst others. The top 3 of all-time were rated by Bob Mckenzie ( a great hockey mind). Here they are.........

#3. Sawchuk- 103 shutouts, ridiculous!
#2. Hasek- only goalie in history to win 2 harts. simply awesome
#1. Patrick Roy- 3 conn smythes, 300+ wins, 4 time champion. Simply the best of all-time.

I think that list is very fair

[thegame]

I'd switch #1 and #2, but all lists make some people happy and others upset.

[D-Rocafella]

Good list. In tonights Stanley Cup game during the 1st intermission, Don Cherry was talking about Roy and went on to call him the greatest goalie of all time. Cherry is a very smart hockey man and also a man who dosen't mix words. So when he says Roy's the best, you know he truly means it.

[D-Rocafella]

Just caught the late Sportscenter, and Barry Melrose was talking about Roy, and mentioned him as the all time greatest goalie.

Seems all the top hockey guys are agreeing on whom the best goalie is.

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Good list. In tonights Stanley Cup game during the 1st intermission, Don Cherry was talking about Roy and went on to call him the greatest goalie of all time. Cherry is a very smart hockey man and also a man who dosen't mix words. So when he says Roy's the best, you know he truly means it.

Cherry is a very smart hockey man:
Mississauga Ice Dogs
1998-99 OHLC 68 4 61 3 0 11 0.081 145 426 1833
1999-00 OHLC 68 9 56 1 2 21 0.140 160 346 1259
2000-01 OHLC 68 3 56 7 2 15 0.096 157 380 0
2001-02 OHLC 68 11 47 6 4 32 0.206 212 327 0
2002-03 Central 68 23 31 11 3 60 0.419 212 231 1475

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Just caught the late Sportscenter, and Barry Melrose was talking about Roy, and mentioned him as the all time greatest goalie.

Seems all the top hockey guys are agreeing on whom the best goalie is.

Barry Melrose: top hockey mind
1987-88 Medicine Hat Tigers WHL Head Coach 72 44 22 6 0 0.653
1988-89 Seattle Thunderbirds WHL Head Coach 72 33 35 4 0 0.486
1989-90 Adirondack Red Wings AHL Head Coach 80 42 27 11 0 0.594
1990-91 Adirondack Red Wings AHL Head Coach 80 33 37 10 0 0.475
1991-92 Adirondack Red Wings AHL Head Coach 80 40 36 4 0 0.525
1992-93 Los-Angeles Kings NHL Head Coach 84 39 35 10 0 0.524
1993-94 Los-Angeles Kings NHL Head Coach 84 27 45 12 0 0.393
1994-95 Los-Angeles Kings NHL Head Coach 48 16 23 9 0 0.427

3 winning records in 8 years. And 2 losing seasons with Gretzky.

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by bduff54
TSN , just rated the top 10 goalies of all-time. they had sawchuk, Dryden, Hall amongst others. The top 3 of all-time were rated by Bob Mckenzie ( a great hockey mind). Here they are.........

#3. Sawchuk- 103 shutouts, ridiculous!
#2. Hasek- only goalie in history to win 2 harts. simply awesome
#1. Patrick Roy- 3 conn smythes, 300+ wins, 4 time champion. Simply the best of all-time.

I think that list is very fair

Who cares if it's fair? It isn't accurate.

If Jacques Plante would have never given up a goal while with the Canadiens, he would still have won 0 Conn Smythes.

[bduff54]

sorry lafontaine, Roy is number 1 and he has all the stats to prove it. Hasek was awesome aswell.

[LALAFONTAINE]

What stats does Roy have to prove it? The fact he was beaten by lesser teams in the playoffs 7 times? The fact he was pulled for the entire playoffs twice? That is HALF of his career where he's played poorly in the playoffs. So much for clutch play in the playoffs. Losing to lesser teams like the Wild is hardly unprecedented for Roy. Ask the sub-.500 Oilers, who upset the Avs a few years ago.

You want to compare Vezinas - you know, the award given to THE BEST GOALTENDER. Hasek won it SIX times in his 11 years - only 9 of them was he a starter. Roy won ZERO when Hasek was a starter.

Best all time save percentage - which measures what a goalie does: Hasek. Best all time playoff save percentage: Hasek.

You haven't mentioned one INDIVIDUAL stat to indicate that Roy is better than Hasek. Don't worry. Nobody can.

[bduff54]

when you play 18 years you are bound to lose to underdogs a few times. how many years did hasek play? and how many times was he in the playoffs? One of the reasons Roy's teams were in the playoffs all the time was because they had the best goalie in the game!

[D-Rocafella]

Originally posted by bduff54
when you play 18 years you are bound to lose to underdogs a few times. how many years did hasek play? and how many times was he in the playoffs? One of the reasons Roy's teams were in the playoffs all the time was because they had the best goalie in the game!

Great point.

Another thing with save percentage, a guy like Hasek faced alot of shots because his teams were not that great. So his save % will look good as a result. A guy like Roy might not face as much shots so his might not look as good.

Heres an example. Say Roy faces 25 shots lets 2 in and his team wins. Then say Hasek faces 35 shots lets 2 in and his team losses. Hasek will have the better save %, but Roy's team wins.

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by bduff54
when you play 18 years you are bound to lose to underdogs a few times. how many years did hasek play? and how many times was he in the playoffs? One of the reasons Roy's teams were in the playoffs all the time was because they had the best goalie in the game!

Hasek's teams missed the playoffs once in eleven years.

Roy's teams missed the playoffs twice in 18 years.

Hasek once lost once in ten years to a team who had less points in the regular season: 10%.

Roy lost 7 times to a team who had less points in the regular season: 44%.

In addition, Roy was pulled from the REST of the playoffs, not just one game TWICE. Such embarrassment never happened to Hasek, especially to a forgetable goaltender like Brian Hayward.

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Great point.

Another thing with save percentage, a guy like Hasek faced alot of shots because his teams were not that great. So his save % will look good as a result. A guy like Roy might not face as much shots so his might not look as good.

Heres an example. Say Roy faces 25 shots lets 2 in and his team wins. Then say Hasek faces 35 shots lets 2 in and his team losses. Hasek will have the better save %, but Roy's team wins.

It would have been simpler to say you simply don't understand save percentage. If Hasek makes 33/35 saves and Roy makes 23/25 saves every night, Hasek has outperformed Roy, given that the shots represent equivalent scoring chances. In your example above, Hasek has outplayed Roy. Hasek and Roy aren't responsible for scoring 3 goals.

Since you've failed to make this argument, I will make it for you. The argument Dan Cloutier fans - and fans of poor goaltenders in general - is that a shot is not a shot. In any given game, this is certainly true. Over a season or career, this is ridiculous.

Thus, goalies on defensive teams face shots that are less inclined to result in goals than goalies on offensive teams, because offensive teams apparently give up better chances on their shots. This is a completely ridiculous argument. By this standard, Hasek's save percentage should have gone up in Detroit. It didn't. By this standard, Hasek's save percentage should have varied tremendously when coached by Muckler, Nolan, Ruff or Bowman. It really didn't.

Face it, you are trying to say save percentage is irrelevant because Hasek absolute dominates every other goaltender to an incredibly large extent. At least use something else besides "Roy's teammates are better!"

[D-Rocafella]

Hasek 0 cups in Buffalo but don't worry because he had a great save % and won the Vezna all the time.

Roy 4 cups, Veznas, Conn Smyths, and so many records that it will make your head spin.

I'll take Roy.

[Player6600]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Good list. In tonights Stanley Cup game during the 1st intermission, Don Cherry was talking about Roy and went on to call him the greatest goalie of all time. Cherry is a very smart hockey man and also a man who dosen't mix words. So when he says Roy's the best, you know he truly means it.

Don Cherry hates anyone who is European and is also a retard

[Smapdi]

I'd take Hasek any day of the week over Roy. What about the dominator's gold medals?

[D-Rocafella]

Originally posted by Player6600
Don Cherry hates anyone who is European and is also a retard

He does hate Euros, but he is far from a retard.

[bduff54]

yeah he hates euros. but he has a high hockey IQ

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Hasek 0 cups in Buffalo but don't worry because he had a great save % and won the Vezna all the time.

Roy 4 cups, Veznas, Conn Smyths, and so many records that it will make your head spin.

I'll take Roy.

Roy didn't win any Vezinas competing against Hasek, did he? No.

Roy happened to play on better teams. Or do you think Forsberg and Sakic are equivalent to Peca and Barnes?

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by bduff54
yeah he hates euros. but he has a high hockey IQ

And we know what took precedence with the Ice Dogs.

[bduff54]

yeah your right lafontaine, but he has a point with the ice dogs. it is the Ontario hockey league not the european hockey league.

[D-Rocafella]

Originally posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Roy didn't win any Vezinas competing against Hasek, did he? No.

I don't care if he won his veznas in 72, 82, 92, or 02, he still earned them! Is Gordie Howe less of a player because he never played against Roy or Hasek? Of course not! So why does it matter what year Roy won his veznas?

[LALAFONTAINE]

Because you are comparing Hasek with Roy. It pretty much says who was the better goalie when they went up against each other and Hasek got 6 Vezinas while Roy got shut out.

Hasek even won two Hart trophies, competing against a healthy Lemieux for one of them.

[bduff54]

yeah hasek was awesome but Roy is the best of all-time. haske was the best in the 90's but his career was short. Roy had already had a careers worth when hasek became a starter. They are both great goalies but Roy has proven to be the best goalie to play this game for the longest period of time.

[D-Rocafella]

Roy won 3 cups when Hasek was in the leauge

Hasek won 1 cup when Roy was in the leauge.

Cups are the bottom line and Hasek is 2 short.

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by bduff54
yeah hasek was awesome but Roy is the best of all-time. haske was the best in the 90's but his career was short. Roy had already had a careers worth when hasek became a starter. They are both great goalies but Roy has proven to be the best goalie to play this game for the longest period of time.

Hasek was better and Sawchuk played longer.

[LALAFONTAINE]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Roy won 3 cups when Hasek was in the leauge

Hasek won 1 cup when Roy was in the leauge.

Cups are the bottom line and Hasek is 2 short.

By that logic, Claude Lemieux is better than Patrick Roy. He's also better than Mario Lemieux by your logic.

Cups are a team accomplishment.

[Sideshow Bob]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Roy won 3 cups when Hasek was in the leauge

Hasek won 1 cup when Roy was in the leauge.

Cups are the bottom line and Hasek is 2 short.

If cups are the bottom line, then Grant Fuhr rates ahead of both.

:D

[huszabi]

The fact is: every time, when Hasek faced directly against Roy in a competition (SC, OLYMPIC) he won .

Ohh, and I realy won't forget that 2 shotout against Roy last year...

When Hasek won the Cup, he was really over his prime time, but it was more than enough to beat Roy and to made a record (Brodeur just share it now) 6 SO in the playoff run.

Just imagine Hasek with a really strong team in his prime...

[Bay Side]

I have to agree!!