Brady is clutch!!!

[bduff54]

Wow that guy is a performer, i have to admit i am impressed with the resiliance, this win is really bad for us!

[dwightdrane]

huge comeback. yeah, a loss woulda hurt the pats emotion and confidence...this game did the opposite. but, if the bills want to make some playoff noise, they need to win. all else falls into place when you win, especially when you play your divisional rivals 1 more x.

[don137]

Anytime an official gives a team multiple chances they are bound to have a play go there way.

[bduff54]

what do you mean????? they were the correct calls!

[bv]

That was a good comeback for sure. They are a great team and arent gonna just roll over.

The one play that bothered me in this game was the all out blitz by the Bears secondary that got the pats that easy TD near the end of the game. Scoring that quickly got them back into the game.

[D-Rocafella]

Clutch dump off passes and screens.

[MiamiMasterpiece]

Man you guys don't know anything about football. If screen passes work, use them. As for the refs.......If you know the rules in the NFL you would realize that they were "THE CORRECT CALLS"

[bduff54]

exactly miami masterpiece, guys like D-roccafella think you have to throw 60 yard bombs like favre to be a "good Qb". I guess travis henry isn't a good back cause he doesn't have the speed to run a 90 yarder!

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Clutch dump off passes and screens.

You didn't watch the game did you? Do you understand what a lot of those short passes are? They're checkoffs, you wouldn't know, because Bledsoe doesn't make them.

[D-Rocafella]

Here it is. I never said you can't do screens and dump offs. And I never said you have to launch 60 yard bombs, so guys like bduff, miamimasterpiece, and pedro don't make things up.

My point is that calling Brady a great QB is a invalid statement because all the work on those plays are done by the reciever and the blockers. Anyone can throw those passes.

I also never said you can't use those plays as miamimasterpiece would let you to belive. If they work use them. But just because they work dosen't mean the QB executing those plays is great.

And bduff your comment about Henry not being a good running back by my standards for QB's is very flawed. QB and RB are two different positions. The running backs job is to get as many yards as possible. Just because a running back might not have blinding speed (like Henry) dosen't mean they suck. A running back is more then just speed. He is combination of speed, power, athleticism, and recieving ability.

In conclusion guys like bduff, miamimasterpiece and Pedro, relax. Stop trying to slam me with things you guys make up and say that I said. I know what I am talking about and Brady is nothing more then a average QB.

[Mouldsie]

duff, I thought you didn't like Travis!?! lol


-I love how Brady can launch the ball a full 8 yards with precision!


You gotta admit duff, Brady's arm isn't that great.... his heart, intangibles, and calm presence in the huddle is great though!

[Hsker4Life]

Originally posted by MOULDSROCKS
duff, I thought you didn't like Travis!?! lol


-I love how Brady can launch the ball a full 8 yards with precision!


You gotta admit duff, Brady's arm isn't that great.... his heart, intangibles, and calm presence in the huddle is great though!


Don't be talking bad about duff's boy!

I see Bduff praising Brady more than I see him praising the whole Buffalo Bills team. Yeah, SURE he's a Bills fan. ;)

[Pedrorocks458]

Does he have a great longball? No, at least not yet. Does he put a lot of heat on his mid-range fastball, yes. His arm in the medium range passing game, not just the short range game, is really superb. If Brady was such an average QB, and the Pats have obviously average talent on offense, why does Brady have 5 more TD passes than Bledsoe?

[jimmifli]

Because they are "homers".

[bduff54]

"a Rb's job is to get as many yards as possible" D-rocafella. Oh i see now so a QB is supposed to ignore the effective screen pass and throw lasers cause they look pretty.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Does he have a great longball? No, at least not yet. Does he put a lot of heat on his mid-range fastball, yes. His arm in the medium range passing game, not just the short range game, is really superb. If Brady was such an average QB, and the Pats have obviously average talent on offense, why does Brady have 5 more TD passes than Bledsoe?


because early on in the season the pats were committed to the pass more than the run. The short passing game is a charm for brady's stats. We wanted a balanced attack.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
"a Rb's job is to get as many yards as possible" D-rocafella. Oh i see now so a QB is supposed to ignore the effective screen pass and throw lasers cause they look pretty.

why do you always like to put words into people's mouth? D-roc never said that. All he's saying is that calling brady a "great" qb is pushing the envelope. If tom brady could impress people so much with those short dumpoffs then I guess shane matthews would be great if spurrier organized an offense like that for him. Oh it's not so much his checkoffs, it's the system designed for his abilities.

[bduff54]

i never said he was "great". but he is very capable, a lot of people just discount everythign he does and say he is lucky. It drives me crazy.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
why do you always like to put words into people's mouth? D-roc never said that. All he's saying is that calling brady a "great" qb is pushing the envelope. If tom brady could impress people so much with those short dumpoffs then I guess shane matthews would be great if spurrier organized an offense like that for him. Oh it's not so much his checkoffs, it's the system designed for his abilities.

If its all just short passes and dumpoffs, and any QB in the league could do it? Why aren't they? Its a copycat league, if it was so easy, why wouldn't other teams do it?

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
why do you always like to put words into people's mouth? D-roc never said that. All he's saying is that calling brady a "great" qb is pushing the envelope. If tom brady could impress people so much with those short dumpoffs then I guess shane matthews would be great if spurrier organized an offense like that for him. Oh it's not so much his checkoffs, it's the system designed for his abilities.

Quick decisions. Thats his best attribute, he can make them, unlike Bledsoe, who simply could not succeed in our system. He just isn't good enough for it.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Quick decisions. Thats his best attribute, he can make them, unlike Bledsoe, who simply could not succeed in our system. He just isn't good enough for it.


He doesn't fit your system because he has the arm to work in a better system.

[naeliac]

How clutch would Brady be if that fat bastard could have handled that lame duck ball that hit his hands?

[Psychosis]

I know, he would have been such a dud.

[Psychosis]

btw pedro does quick decisions exactly mean smart decisions and turning the ball over? I liked how he threw that interception to Brian Urlacher. I mean if you say brady makes quicker decisions than bledsoe then all those interceptions are good thing huh? Bledsoe is the 3rd least intercepted qb in the league btw. I guess brady doesn't have the quickness in his head for football.

[bduff54]

they are both good Qb's they each have their stenghts and weaknesess. the right Qb is on each team, Brady couldn't run our system and Drew couldn't run theirs!

[bigdog]

Any retard with two arms could run NE's system.

[Psychosis]

well bduff at least you can tell pedro that because he still thinks drew sucks regardless of what he does.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bigdog
Any retard with two arms could run NE's system.


lol. Maybe Damon Huard will be the next superstar.

[bduff54]

drew couldn't run weis's system last year, he failed miserably!

[Psychosis]

lol drew only played in about three games and got knocked out and ended up with clipboard duties because belichek blackballed him for brady. I always thought drew was the undisputed starter in NE when he was healthy, but belichek stuck him in on the bench. Just recently Mike Martz said Kurt Warner was his undisputed starter as soon as he was healthy. Marc Bulger did a good job but back to clipboard duties. Martz said that in spite of the rams being 0-3 with Warner being the starter. Back to the point. Against Pitt, boy wonder brady went down with an injury and drew came into to rescue the day beating the steelers on that last drive he threw a TD. I think he did a pretty good job of handling weis' system there. It wasn't until weis came on board that everything changed for drew because drew was so used to stretching the field with the vertical passing attack. Anyway, it worked out for the best because drew is in buffalo and he's happier here than he was there. In conclusion, who'd ever thought commisioner gordon(belichek) would pick brady(robin,boy wonder) over batman(bledsoe) and screw him so boy wonder could run gotham city(foxboro)? Funny how things work out.

[bduff54]

are you sauing belichek shafted Drew???? How can that be? they won the superbowl, Bledsoe is not built for that offense, you need a bit of mobility and Drew doesn't have any.

[Hsker4Life]

Originally posted by bduff54
drew couldn't run weis's system last year, he failed miserably!


Did you not watch the AFC Championship game? Without Bledsoe, the Patriots never make it to the Super Bowl.

[Psychosis]

thank you hsker. If it weren't for drew coming in there they wouldn't have even beaten the steelers because brady went down. Damon Huard wouldn't have done it. Yes bduff, belichek did shaft bledsoe. Wasn't bledsoe the starting qb? As soon as he got healthy belichek decided to stay brady as the starter. That means belichek lost confidence in bledoe and bledsoe lost respect for belichek.

[Psychosis]

btw bduff, may I remind you that had the refs not messed up that call against the raiders.."the phantom pass", the raiders would have won that game. In spite of the raiders not doing enough towards the end of the game to prevent the pats from getting into the game, they hold most of the blame for that. But the raiders should have won that game. They made the play, but just didn't get the right call.

[bduff54]

last time i checked the Pats won the superbowl last year. Belichek made the right decision, he owes bledsoe nothing! Gimme a break.

[Psychosis]

maybe not, but I wouldn't pay a starter all that money to be sitting on the bench the whole season. That's crazy.

[bduff54]

so you'd put him because of money???????????? Dantes you would never make a good coach, you put the best player out on the field, in that situation it was Brady and he led them to 8 straight win and a superbowl title. Sitting Bledsoe was the best move Belichek ever made, and it worked out for us too!

[Psychosis]

never make a good coach? lol wow you've ruined my future plans. I wouldn't have put him in just for money, but because he's the leader of the team and I would have belived he would have turned it around getting off to a slow start. There's such a thing as having faith and loyalty to one of your best players. Belichek didn't have that in bledsoe.Is mike martz sticking with marc bulger just because he has played that well? No, he sticking with Kurt Warner because that's his starting qb and he has faith in him. Kurt will be ready and will start. Marc Bulger is a backup and that was his duty. Do you think Mike Sherman would bench brett farve if they wetn 0-3? hell no. Drew wasn't the only reason the pats got off to a slow start. The WHOLE team did. Best move? if it weren't for that call against the raiders your boy wonder brady wouldn't be all the hype he is now. There would be no superbowl and then what? I'm glad we got bledsoe, but that's beside the point.

[bduff54]

your argument has no basis, they won the superbowl! enough said.

[askabry]

Originally posted by Dantes
Is mike martz sticking with marc bulger just because he has played that well? No, he sticking with Kurt Warner because that's his starting qb and he has faith in him.

Not to rain on your parade here or anything, but Warner got the job specifically because he was promoted over Trent Green when Green got injured. And at the time, his OC was Mike Martz.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
btw pedro does quick decisions exactly mean smart decisions and turning the ball over? I liked how he threw that interception to Brian Urlacher. I mean if you say brady makes quicker decisions than bledsoe then all those interceptions are good thing huh? Bledsoe is the 3rd least intercepted qb in the league btw. I guess brady doesn't have the quickness in his head for football.

What is Brady's career TD-INT ratio as compared to Bledsoe's?

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by bigdog
Any retard with two arms could run NE's system.

Yet we've pretty much agreed Bledsoe couldn't.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Hsker4Life
Did you not watch the AFC Championship game? Without Bledsoe, the Patriots never make it to the Super Bowl.

We were lucky to make it with him. Again, completing less than 50% of your passes is not good. Sure, he leapfrogged onto Brady's drive and took them to a score, I thank him for that, but lets not get carried away.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
never make a good coach? lol wow you've ruined my future plans. I wouldn't have put him in just for money, but because he's the leader of the team and I would have belived he would have turned it around getting off to a slow start. There's such a thing as having faith and loyalty to one of your best players. Belichek didn't have that in bledsoe.Is mike martz sticking with marc bulger just because he has played that well? No, he sticking with Kurt Warner because that's his starting qb and he has faith in him. Kurt will be ready and will start. Marc Bulger is a backup and that was his duty. Do you think Mike Sherman would bench brett farve if they wetn 0-3? hell no. Drew wasn't the only reason the pats got off to a slow start. The WHOLE team did. Best move? if it weren't for that call against the raiders your boy wonder brady wouldn't be all the hype he is now. There would be no superbowl and then what? I'm glad we got bledsoe, but that's beside the point.

Yet the whole team started playing better with Brady. Same players, same system, totally different result. Try using your powers of perception. Yes, Bellichik lost faith in Bledsoe, because he lost to the Bengals! Yes, the Bengals.

[YardRat]

Pedro, come back to reality---
Last year was last year, this year is different.

Please quit comparing a 10 yr vets career statistics to someone who has only played 1-1/2 yrs--it's ridiculous.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by YardRat
Pedro, come back to reality---
Last year was last year, this year is different.

Please quit comparing a 10 yr vets career statistics to someone who has only played 1-1/2 yrs--it's ridiculous.

Well, he just compared 9 games to 9 games and said it was indicative of how many INT's the QBs throw. Career numbers is the only way to determine that.

[captain]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Yet the whole team started playing better with Brady. Same players, same system, totally different result. Try using your powers of perception. Yes, Bellichik lost faith in Bledsoe, because he lost to the Bengals!

Not one unit played well in the first 2 games except the Bledsoe and the passing game in game 1 against the Bengals. Yes, the Bengals! Brady did not just walk on the field and have the team transform itself from where it was in games 1 and 2 as you implied. His performances (53% passer) for his first 2+ games were worse than Bledsoe's. The Patriots won their 3rd game with Brady at QB, but he didn't make any contribution at all until the 5th game of the season against the Chargers.

Brady deserves his props, but he was helped by a defense that got dramatically better as the season wore on holding opponents to 14PPG in the 9 game win streak, by one of the top special teams unit in football, and by the best run game the Patriots have had since the 1995. Our passing offense was the weakest aspect of our team last year, though that can't be laid all at Brady's feet. The playcalling was conservative and we didn't have a full stable of receivers and tight ends. It's also fair to add that Brady has improved in most areas this year, except for his long ball.

BTW, where were you before the Bledsoe Bowl? And are you Joshua Boraz??

[Pedrorocks458]

Who is Joshua Boraz?

[captain]

He's a sports fan who has written numerous submissions to TSN that some posters here think is you.

Are you Joshua Boraz. Yes or No?

[Psychosis]

who's joshua boraz? you're a pretender pedro

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by captain
Not one unit played well in the first 2 games except the Bledsoe and the passing game in game 1 against the Bengals. Yes, the Bengals! Brady did not just walk on the field and have the team transform itself from where it was in games 1 and 2 as you implied. His performances (53% passer) for his first 2+ games were worse than Bledsoe's. The Patriots won their 3rd game with Brady at QB, but he didn't make any contribution at all until the 5th game of the season against the Chargers.

Brady deserves his props, but he was helped by a defense that got dramatically better as the season wore on holding opponents to 14PPG in the 9 game win streak, by one of the top special teams unit in football, and by the best run game the Patriots have had since the 1995. Our passing offense was the weakest aspect of our team last year, though that can't be laid all at Brady's feet. The playcalling was conservative and we didn't have a full stable of receivers and tight ends. It's also fair to add that Brady has improved in most areas this year, except for his long ball.


thank you captain, you're probaby the only pats fan who doesn't have his head up his ass.

BTW, where were you before the Bledsoe Bowl? And are you Joshua Boraz??

[D-Rocafella]

Some of these guys Dantes will never learn.

BTW, thanks for having my back earlier in the thread. Some guys like bduff and pedro will make so much ***** up that it's not even funny.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
What is Brady's career TD-INT ratio as compared to Bledsoe's?

pedro now that is the dumbest question I've ever heard. :rofl:
You're comparing brady's career to bledsoe's veteran career? Keep in mind brady has only started until last year and bledsoe has many years behind him.
Oh just wait til brady plays a couple of more years. His ints will be more than drew's. Riddle me this pedro. Why is it that with a more conservative pass attack, brady has more ints than bledsoe has this year and bledsoe throws the ball all over the field??

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Some of these guys Dantes will never learn.

BTW, thanks for having my back earlier in the thread. Some guys like bduff and pedro will make so much ***** up that it's not even funny.

don't mention it D-roc :thumbup:
I know it's ludicrous.

[Psychosis]

captain how can you be a pats fan? lol. Guys like pedro are ruining your reputation as credible fans. There should be more pats fan like you.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
your argument has no basis, they won the superbowl! enough said.


no basis huh...yeah ok bduff. Wonder boy played well in for drew, but he needed the refs help to go to the superbowl. He owes them his fame.

[D-Rocafella]

Lets just say Brady's knees hurt after servicing the whole officiating crew for the so called tuck pass.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by askabry
Not to rain on your parade here or anything, but Warner got the job specifically because he was promoted over Trent Green when Green got injured. And at the time, his OC was Mike Martz.


yeah but green is not a former pro bowler. Green hadn't taken his team to the superbowl before. It's pretty different when you have those credentials. Drew was a leader. It was an easy decision for vermeil because green couldn't play the whole season because of a torn acl.

[bduff54]

listen to you. Brady won a superbowl as basically a rookie, He helped beat the best team last year. Bledso had his shot and got blown out, gimme a break Dantes. And when the F&ck did i make stuff up?

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
pedro now that is the dumbest question I've ever heard. :rofl:
You're comparing brady's career to bledsoe's veteran career? Keep in mind brady has only started until last year and bledsoe has many years behind him.
Oh just wait til brady plays a couple of more years. His ints will be more than drew's. Riddle me this pedro. Why is it that with a more conservative pass attack, brady has more ints than bledsoe has this year and bledsoe throws the ball all over the field??

Why does Brady have more TD passes in a conservative scheme?

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
Lets just say Brady's knees hurt after servicing the whole officiating crew for the so called tuck pass.

Just one question, do you still think Buffalo has a better D?

Oh, and why is everyone obsessed with using gay humor with Tom Brady? Has anyone HERE gone out with Tara Reid?

[OnlyOneYeti]

Hey, I'm still dating Tara Reid...back off, buddy.

[fna0356]

Billijerk didnt shaft Drew..Drew shafted himself when he went to Bob Kraft and convinced him to bring in a backstabber like Billijerk..it's so much more than just being injured..Drew convinced Kraft to hire that moron and then he shafted him!!

The ultimate indiginity..can you imagine how stupid Drew felt after Billijerk sat him down!!

[fna0356]

Yes..the Pats defense is much better !!! 30 points to the offensive powerhouse Bears..very impressive. The Bills f'd up 2wks ago..but I dont think that will happen again. The Pats just arent that good defensively and neither are the Bills.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
listen to you. Brady won a superbowl as basically a rookie, He helped beat the best team last year. Bledso had his shot and got blown out, gimme a break Dantes. And when the F&ck did i make stuff up?



do your debates get you this heated up all the time? You make it sound like drew blew his shot because he was horrible. He blew it because he got injured not because brady was better than him. Btw you never answered my question? What if brady didnt have that call go his way vs oakland? Woud he still be your boy wonder? there would be no superbowl and no fame. and i'm sorry i never said you made stuff up. where did i say that? did i type those exact words?

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
do your debates get you this heated up all the time? You make it sound like drew blew his shot because he was horrible. He blew it because he got injured not because brady was better than him. Btw you never answered my question? What if brady didnt have that call go his way vs oakland? Woud he still be your boy wonder? there would be no superbowl and no fame. and i'm sorry i never said you made stuff up. where did i say that? did i type those exact words?

Actually, there was talk about making Brady starter because he looked so good in pre-season and practice. But, thats another can of worms. However, Bledsoe was NOT injured the first two games, and his team lost both those games. He also was not injured at the end of the season, yet Bellichiik stuckwith Brady. If Bellichik thought Bledsoe was better, wouldn't Bledsoe start? This is the man who sat Bernie Kosar mind you.

[bduff54]

i mean when drew was in the first superbowl, the pats got blown out!

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Why does Brady have more TD passes in a conservative scheme?


I told you already, but apparently you can't see very well? Weis wanted to get away from running the ball in the beginning of the season and basically threw the ball a lot more. He wanted to make the pats like the rams offense. Unfortunately brady got a fast start on drew by throwing three tds in the first game while drew threw 1 against the jets. It was after three games that brady started struggling. Then what happened? After the whole passing scheme failed the pats decided to start running the ball more. Apparently you think this is a race over who threw the most td's. I don't know if drew will catchup to brady, but if one thing is for certain drew is a better qb than brady is.

[OnlyOneYeti]

Originally posted by bduff54
i mean when drew was in the first superbowl, the pats got blown out!
Come on...that was a totally different team.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
I told you already, but apparently you can't see very well? Weis wanted to get away from running the ball in the beginning of the season and basically threw the ball a lot more. He wanted to make the pats like the rams offense. Unfortunately brady got a fast start on drew by throwing three tds in the first game while drew threw 1 against the jets. It was after three games that brady started struggling. Then what happened? After the whole passing scheme failed the pats decided to start running the ball more. Apparently you think this is a race over who threw the most td's. I don't know if drew will catchup to brady, but if one thing is for certain drew is a better qb than brady is.

Let me get this straight, your reasoning for Brady having more TD's is that he got a faster start? You do realize that counts right? And anyway, since the third game, Brady has 12 TD passes. Bledsoe has 11. You never answered my question as to how Brady leads the league in TD's yet plays in a conservative offensive scheme, with mediocre offensive personnel. It doesn't make sense does it?

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by OnlyOneYeti
Come on...that was a totally different team.

Yeah, and we had a totally different QB. He threw 4 INT's. Look at his stats during that playoff run where he carried his team to the SB. Just look.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Actually, there was talk about making Brady starter because he looked so good in pre-season and practice. But, thats another can of worms. However, Bledsoe was NOT injured the first two games, and his team lost both those games. He also was not injured at the end of the season, yet Bellichiik stuckwith Brady. If Bellichik thought Bledsoe was better, wouldn't Bledsoe start? This is the man who sat Bernie Kosar mind you.


bledsoe was injured against the jets, and he's not at fault for losing both games. The whole team didn't play very well from the start. Well belichek is not an offensive genius, but a defensive one. What the hell does he know about what qb is better. He got lucky in his choice because even brady needed a call from the refs to advance in the playoffs.

[Psychosis]

So what? he didn't play so well in the superbowl, big deal. It doesn't mean brady is better than him. That's like saying trent dilfer is better than bledsoe. Hell we lost four straight with jim kelly as the qb. Does that mean brady is better than jim kelly? This is hilarious.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
bledsoe was injured against the jets, and he's not at fault for losing both games. The whole team didn't play very well from the start. Well belichek is not an offensive genius, but a defensive one. What the hell does he know about what qb is better. He got lucky in his choice because even brady needed a call from the refs to advance in the playoffs.

Oh, its not his fault for losing the Jets game? Is it Brady's? We were already out of the game by the time Brady came in, and actually tried moving the ball. Yet the same team after Brady took over suddenly morphed into a great team? Bellichick wants to win, and he has a winner in Brady. Thats all that matters to him, and unfortunately, Drew couldn't cut it. Yeah, calls from refs do help when playing football games. I mean, they have to make calls like offsides, end of quarter, etc.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
So what? he didn't play so well in the superbowl, big deal. It doesn't mean brady is better than him. That's like saying trent dilfer is better than bledsoe. Hell we lost four straight with jim kelly as the qb. Does that mean brady is better than jim kelly? This is hilarious.

Huh? THE BIGGEST GAME OF HIS LIFE, and he blows it, yet it means nothing. His team had to carry him to the SB, where he subsequently blew it.

[OnlyOneYeti]

That's total garbage. Are you saying Drew Bledsoe had nothing to do with the Pats going to the dance in '94? The special teams played spectacularly and was the biggest reason NE went to the Super Bowl last year. Does that mean Brady was carried by his teammates? No. That means that everyone contributes a piece of the puzzle. If you want to know the truth, the Pats rode Adam Vinatieri to the championship last year. He was a more convincing MVP choice to me than Brady by far.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by OnlyOneYeti
That's total garbage. Are you saying Drew Bledsoe had nothing to do with the Pats going to the dance in '94? The special teams played spectacularly and was the biggest reason NE went to the Super Bowl last year. Does that mean Brady was carried by his teammates? No. That means that everyone contributes a piece of the puzzle. If you want to know the truth, the Pats rode Adam Vinatieri to the championship last year. He was a more convincing MVP choice to me than Brady by far.

What was Brady's INT to TD ratio last playoffs? What was Bledsoe's in '94? Did Brady carry his team to the SB? No, but he was an integral part, and he didn't make his team carry him.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Huh? THE BIGGEST GAME OF HIS LIFE, and he blows it, yet it means nothing. His team had to carry him to the SB, where he subsequently blew it.


i didnt say it meant nothing, but compared to jim kelly it's not such a big deal and he's a hall of famer. His team carried him to the SB? Please you think scott zolak was gonna take them there? W/O drew there would have been no superbowl that year.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Oh, its not his fault for losing the Jets game? Is it Brady's? We were already out of the game by the time Brady came in, and actually tried moving the ball. Yet the same team after Brady took over suddenly morphed into a great team? Bellichick wants to win, and he has a winner in Brady. Thats all that matters to him, and unfortunately, Drew couldn't cut it. Yeah, calls from refs do help when playing football games. I mean, they have to make calls like offsides, end of quarter, etc.


No josh, whether you admit or not the pats got help by the refs to win the game. You know what that says? Brady couldn't win without the refs help. Had it been the right call(the fumble) there would be no superbowl. You understand what i'm saying? They were so lucky they even got there thanks to the refs. Trust me, you would have been calling brady a loser if the pats had lost to oakland.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Let me get this straight, your reasoning for Brady having more TD's is that he got a faster start? You do realize that counts right? And anyway, since the third game, Brady has 12 TD passes. Bledsoe has 11. You never answered my question as to how Brady leads the league in TD's yet plays in a conservative offensive scheme, with mediocre offensive personnel. It doesn't make sense does it?


obviously brady is gonna have more tds if he's thrown more than drew in the first game. It's a game of pace. I do realize that counts. BTW brady has 9 Tds after three game and drew had 6 so drew was still behind brady. Hey it makes sense to me that if you're behind you have to catch up. Drew has been behind and brady has stayed ahead so that's why he has more TDs. I dont know how else you want me to answer that. If you have a better answer then lets please hear it because it should be interesting. :funnyguy:

[OnlyOneYeti]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Did Brady carry his team to the SB? No, but he was an integral part, and he didn't make his team carry him.
You can say the exact same thing about Drew in '94. The only difference is that the Pats won last year, and I'm not convinced that Brady was the difference...special teams, defense, and a little luck gave NE the trophy last year.

[bduff54]

i agree, but Dantes was saying that sitting your reall expensive starte was a mistake. How can that be when yo uwi nthe superbowl and the whole team rallies around brady!

[Psychosis]

you left out a few extra parts. The money issue is not that important, but dont you think drew felt backstabbed because he didnt get to start again even when he was healthy? I dont care if brady won the superbowl. He wouldnt have gotten there if it werent for the refs in the oakland game. Thats a fact and if you overlook that then thats too bad. Hey bduff, would you sit a randy moss and terrel owens down even if they were healthy just because their substitute is playing well? I dont think so, you're wasting your money on no play but they certainly are able to play their game. I have no doubt in my mind drew would have turned it around or even done better than brady if he was able to come back. I dont think you can solely say brady was responsible for the whole teams turnaround. While drew was still not in the huddle, he was still on the sidelines being a leader and supporter by not even trying to cause a contraversy. He didnt want to ruin their momentum.

[bduff54]

how can you do better than win the superbowl?? and yes the fumble play was a bad call, but what about all those consecutive wins? What about the great effort by him in the snow? I see so Drew was the reason the ywon the superbowl because he was a good cheerleader. Look man i love Drew Bledsoe but he didn't deserve to play, Brady was doing great.

[Psychosis]

the fact that brady played well only proves that he fit weis' offense, but it doesn't mean drew couldn't. He wasn't given enough time to develop in that offense from a vertical offense. however, drew prefers the vertical attack than the one weis installed. I guess all that practice payed off in the pitt game because he helped the pats win that game with his td drive. This is why I think he could have done well in that new offense.

[bduff54]

he did well but not amazing he had more incompletions that completions, by that time it was Brady;s team and Drew was gone anyways!

[Psychosis]

hey nothing is better than a superbowl, but you cant say drew didnt deserve to play. He had been the franchise qb for years and then he's healthy and he cant play because his backup is playing well? While that might seem like the way to go, it's not ethical, at least not in my eyes or drews eyes. Hey i'm not saying brady didnt play well last season, but drew didnt even get a chance to show anyone he could comeback and play, not until he had to clean up brady's mess against pitt. BTW I would attribute all those consecutives wins on the pats team as a whole, not brady by himself.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
he did well but not amazing he had more incompletions that completions, by that time it was Brady;s team and Drew was gone anyways!


brady didn't play such a good game against pitt either.

[bduff54]

put it this way, if Curtis joseph got injured last year and The back up got the leafs to the finals, who in their right mind would put cujo back in after not playing conistently for 3 months. Think about it man, you are only saying this cause you like Drew. So do I but you are not making sense! You don't fix something that isn't broken!

[bduff54]

i never said Brady did, Pitt were an awesome D. Brett Favre would ahve trouble against them

[captain]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Actually, there was talk about making Brady starter because he looked so good in pre-season and practice. But, thats another can of worms. ...

Show me a quote from anywhere that claims this.

[uppy]

Tom Brady and New England WON a Super Bowl.....
something the bills have never done and may never
do........facts are facts boys....deal with it

[bduff54]

yeah pedro, i bet that never happened. This was Drew's team going in for sure.

[OnlyOneYeti]

Originally posted by upstart
Tom Brady and New England WON a Super Bowl.....
something the bills have never done and may never
do........facts are facts boys....deal with it
That's just ridiculous. Where do you get your precognition juice, Upstart? I'd love to be able to see in the future like that...I can't believe the Bills might never win a Super Bowl. That's truly incredible. :shaddap:

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
put it this way, if Curtis joseph got injured last year and The back up got the leafs to the finals, who in their right mind would put cujo back in after not playing conistently for 3 months. Think about it man, you are only saying this cause you like Drew. So do I but you are not making sense! You don't fix something that isn't broken!


no because you have confidence in your player and believe he can get the job done thats why. Hey as soon kurt warner is cleared to play and start go tell mike martz that you dont fix something that aint broken. point is, even though they are winning with bulger, martz knows what warner can do and thats his qb because he helped the rams get them to big dance twice already. It's all about loyalty and confidence.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
i never said Brady did, Pitt were an awesome D. Brett Favre would ahve trouble against them

correct if i'm wrong, but wasn't it drew who started for the pats against pitt and beat them to advance to the superbowl in 96? or was that jacksonville?

[captain]

Originally posted by bduff54
i mean when drew was in the first superbowl, the pats got blown out!

Not true. We did not get blown out and were within 6 points late in the 3rd quarter. The only thing that kept us in the SB in 1996 for 3 quarters was Bledsoe and the passing game. Here's my standard cut and paste:

We had no run game, a very poor defense, and the worst special teams performance in the history of the SB.

- The backs had 42 yards on 12 plays. 18 Came on one TD run in the red zone and 24 on 11 other plays. On our three TD drives of 79, 57, and 53 yards we got we got 32 yards rushing. On the first series Cumar runs the ball three times for 1 yard. On our first 4 possessions we had 3 yards rushing. It was going to be a long day. We couldn't run and we're behind for most of the game because...

- The defense allowed 27 points in the first half including a SB record 81 yard pass TD and a 54 yard pass TD on the second play from scrimmage. We're still not to the best part...

- Special teams gave up a SB record 244 yards including another SB record 99 yard return after the Patriots had pulled within 6 points late in the 3rd quarter. Desmond Howard - MVP. Only special teams player to win (although Vinatieri would likely have won last year if they had kept the on-line voting open a few more minutes as he was closing fast.)

At that point the Packers are up 14 and start teeing off on our OLine (Reggie White vs the immortal Max Lane)and get 4 sacks in just over a quarter of play. It's true that Bledsoe had 4 ints, only one of which directly resulted in a FG. Two were late in the game, down 14 and under extreme pressure. We entered the game as heavy underdogs to what was thought at the time to be one of the best teams ever (top 10 according to ESPN recently and I agree - Packers led the league in scoring offense and defense in 1996 - they were a better team than the one we beat last year during the regular season and playoffs leading to the SB)and managed to stay in the game despite a porous defense, virtually no run game, and a record setting performance by our special teams. Outside of your horror show vs the Jets, this was the worst special teams performance I have seen with Howard continually putting the Packers in good field postion before that fateful last kick-off return that sealed our fate. Bledsoe gets all the blame for this from Bledsoe bashers like Pedro, but the passing game led by Bledsoe was the only unit that showed up.

[bduff54]

it was jacksonville.

[OnlyOneYeti]

Originally posted by captain
Not true. We did not get blown out and were within 6 points late in the 3rd quarter. The only thing that kept us in the SB in 1996 for 3 quarters was Bledsoe and the passing game. Here's my standard cut and paste:

We had no run game, a very poor defense, and the worst special teams performance in the history of the SB.

- The backs had 42 yards on 12 plays. 18 Came on one TD run in the red zone and 24 on 11 other plays. On our three TD drives of 79, 57, and 53 yards we got we got 32 yards rushing. On the first series Cumar runs the ball three times for 1 yard. On our first 4 possessions we had 3 yards rushing. It was going to be a long day. We couldn't run and we're behind for most of the game because...

- The defense allowed 27 points in the first half including a SB record 81 yard pass TD and a 54 yard pass TD on the second play from scrimmage. We're still not to the best part...

- Special teams gave up a SB record 244 yards including another SB record 99 yard return after the Patriots had pulled within 6 points late in the 3rd quarter. Desmond Howard - MVP. Only special teams player to win (although Vinatieri would likely have won last year if they had kept the on-line voting open a few more minutes as he was closing fast.)

At that point the Packers are up 14 and start teeing off on our OLine (Reggie White vs the immortal Max Lane)and get 4 sacks in just over a quarter of play. It's true that Bledsoe had 4 ints, only one of which directly resulted in a FG. Two were late in the game, down 14 and under extreme pressure. We entered the game as heavy underdogs to what was thought at the time to be one of the best teams ever (top 10 according to ESPN recently and I agree - Packers led the league in scoring offense and defense in 1996 - they were a better team than the one we beat last year during the regular season and playoffs leading to the SB)and managed to stay in the game despite a porous defense, virtually no run game, and a record setting performance by our special teams. Outside of your horror show vs the Jets, this was the worst special teams performance I have seen with Howard continually putting the Packers in good field postion before that fateful last kick-off return that sealed our fate. Bledsoe gets all the blame for this from Bledsoe bashers like Pedro, but the passing game led by Bledsoe was the only unit that showed up.
Nice post, Captain. I enjoy your imput on these threads.

[Psychosis]

who beat pitt that year?

[Psychosis]

yeah captain is the anti-pedro :thumbup:

[bduff54]

didn't drew throw 4 int's?? That is not acceptable.

[Psychosis]

Completed 14 of 24 attempts for 164 yards and a TD in a 28-3 victory vs. Pit. (1/5/97)

that's not bad against the pitt D is it bduff? Pitt has always had a good defense.

[bduff54]

97??? i can't answer that, that was 5 years ago. Waht are you trying to prove man, that is the most ridiculous post i have seen in years.

[OnlyOneYeti]

I think ya might wanna get some reins for that hyperbole, Bduff...it's getting outta control on ya. :)

[bduff54]

do you believe this guy??? 97?? hahahah

[Psychosis]

it's a typo. I got it from nfl.com but it's really from the year the pats went to the superbowl. I'm trying to show you that drew played well vs the pitt D in the playoffs of that year, while brady couldn't do much of anything against them in the playoffs.

[OnlyOneYeti]

I got ya, Dantes...Brady didn't really do a whole ton in the playoffs, anyways. Like I've posted before, the special teams and the defense were the real stars last year.

[bduff54]

there is a 5 year difference man, i'd say about 2 of those players were on the field in 2002, Please stop this your embarassing yourself.

p.s. i think we have a good chance against the Chiefs next week cause we blew them out in 1994, now does that make sense to you???

[Psychosis]

Yeah I agree with ya yeti.

[bduff54]

i agree with yeti too, the defense and special teams were the real stars and the yhad a very capable QB in there. They didn't need Bledsoe at all.

[Psychosis]

embarrasing myself? Please bduff, i'm not making any absurd remarks. I'm not even making any predictions. What are you talking about? The pitt D has always been good. Who cares if half those players weren't there. Why is yeti gets it, but you can't? Point being while in the playoffs, drew did better than brady against the pitt D the years of their superbowl run.

[bduff54]

i don't think yeti agrees with the 97 reference!

[bduff54]

ok so Drew deserved to start taht game cause he beat them 5 years earlier??? that makes no sense!

[Psychosis]

my gosh can you read at all?? I said it was a typo, it's really 96 the year of their superbowl run.

[bduff54]

ok so 6 years, that even makes it worse!

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
ok so Drew deserved to start taht game cause he beat them 5 years earlier??? that makes no sense!


he wasn't gonna start regardless. All i'm saying is that he could have done a better job than brady.

[bduff54]

ok sure .

[OnlyOneYeti]

I think we're flogging a dead horse here, guys. I'm just glad we ot the better QB out of the deal.

[Psychosis]

i was just showing you he played well against the great pitt D while Brady didn't. Does that make it easier for you to understand or do you need hooked on phonics?

[Psychosis]

I guess you're right yeti
it appears bduff has a hard time undestanding sentences.

[bduff54]

ok dantes, but your comparison are making no sense. But i agree with yet, Bledsoe is the better Qb for the Bills.

[Psychosis]

not my fault bduff.

[bduff54]

Yeti or someone else, please jump in here and tell Dantes that comparing Bledsoe's performance to a team from 96 makes little sense.

[OnlyOneYeti]

LOL, hey you don't just learn a word like hyperbole from hooked on phonics :)

[captain]

Originally posted by Dantes
correct if i'm wrong, but wasn't it drew who started for the pats against pitt and beat them to advance to the superbowl in 96? or was that jacksonville?

Both.

Bledsoe buried the Steelers early by hitting a 53 yarder on the first play from scrimmage to the 2 for a Martin plunge and then went 4-4 on the next drive for 52 of 59 yards in scoring a TD on the second series and the Steelers were toast. Steelers had a very good defense that year, but no offense and Bettis, their only offensive weapon got injured late in the season. 21-0 at the half, the Patriots spent three quarters of the game running out the clock and Bledsoe took no chances to let them back in in a sleeper of a second half. The Steelers played like they knew they were doomed and wanted to go home and while they didn't quit, no one was running up to the line of scrimmage either.

Bledsoe was mediocre (20-33 178 1 int) vs the Jags and the Patriots run game sucked, but Brunell (20-38 198 2 ints) and the Jags pulled a Lucas in the bitter cold up in Foxboro. Lots of dropped passes, 3 fumbles, a botched punt, and 2 ints sealed the Jags doom, Good thing because our run game sucked and we had lots of drops, 2 fumbles and an int. Even Vinatieri missed a makeable FG and the Patriots also had to settle for a FG with time running out in the first half and no time-outs after driving the Patriots 68 yards and a 1st down to the Jags 3 yard line in a 2 minute special. A 11 minute black out to boot. Just that kind of day.

[Psychosis]

you dont have to panic bduff, Get a grip.

[Psychosis]

thanks cap.

[OnlyOneYeti]

It's not totally out of place. He wasn't comparing the same thing, he was comparing how Bledsoe did in a playoff game vs. the Steelers to how Brady played. Of course they were different teams but the point was to showcase Bledsoe's numbers versus Brady's. Bledsoe's game hasn't changed a whole lot over the years. He's still a pocket quarterback who has a golden arm. If anything, he's gotten better with his courage, decision making, and leadership. And he's still just 30.

[bduff54]

thanks for what, those are all great games, but how does it make Bledsoe the rigvht choice 6 years later. thanks yeti for agreeing the comparisons were a stretch!

[OnlyOneYeti]

and to quote Forrest Gump, "that's all I have to say about that."

[bduff54]

i agreee yeti he is a great QB and i would take himn over Brady anyday on our team, but Dantes is trying to say that Drew deserved to play in those games last year, and frankly that is not true!

[Psychosis]

gee bduff I never said bledsoe should have been starting based on his 96 performance. I simply said he could have done a better job than brady, and he sure looke good in the final drive wouldn't you say? BUt I did say bledsoe should have been starting after he got healthy. Don't confuse the two because it appears you are thinking too hard. DOnt do that or you'll get a headache.

[Psychosis]

I guess this is why you get into those loooong debates with shiva.

[bduff54]

sorry but the ring around The finger of the New England patriots proves Belichek made the right call by sittign bledsoe!

[OnlyOneYeti]

My point is that (again) superb special teams, the controversial non-fumble, and defense delivered a championship to New England last year. Brady is better for the Weis-style offense but Bledsoe, IF he would have started, could the outcome have been the same? I think so. But who cares? Brady got the job done, Bledsoe got the boot, and Buffalo came out with a great QB.

[bduff54]

well said.

[Psychosis]

that's ok bduff, the fact remains they shouldn't have been there, but they were and they won. belichek lucked out because of the refs crappy call. Would people still be saying belichek made the right choice had they lost to the raiders? In my mind they lucked out because of the refs and the rings would probably be on the raider players. that's that.

[bduff54]

ok well i am off to bed now, i think we should bring todd Collins back he played well vs the chiefs in 97. lates!

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by OnlyOneYeti
My point is that (again) superb special teams, the controversial non-fumble, and defense delivered a championship to New England last year. Brady is better for the Weis-style offense but Bledsoe, IF he would have started, could the outcome have been the same? I think so. But who cares? Brady got the job done, Bledsoe got the boot, and Buffalo came out with a great QB.


their defense played well, but i'll say it wasn't good enough to win until the non fumble. Other than that yeti, i'm not complaining about how it worked out because we got drew. I was taking a hypothetical view, but mr. bduff didn't like it.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
ok well i am off to bed now, i think we should bring todd Collins back he played well vs the chiefs in 97. lates!


clever, It's ashame you still can't understand.

[OnlyOneYeti]

don't sweat it, Dantes...I got what your point was. you ain't crazy. :)

[Psychosis]

thanks yeti :thumbup: I just dont know what was so hard about comprehending that? Oh well. :chillin:

[Sweet Baboo]

wow...this thread is still going?

well, Brady might be clutch, but so are those referrees...good thing they acted in time...

[Psychosis]

lol yeah good thing for him.

[Ingtar33]

Just a general point about this whole topic...

who cares?

[fna0356]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
What was Brady's INT to TD ratio last playoffs? What was Bledsoe's in '94? Did Brady carry his team to the SB? No, but he was an integral part, and he didn't make his team carry him.

Did Brady have any TDs in the last playoff run? I think he tossed 3 td's in the last 8 games of the yr correct?

BTW..Drew in his SB tossed 3 tds, 21 offensive points and 340yds and had the defense give up 14pts to D. Howard on run backs.

Brady tossed one td, scored 10 offensive pts and had 140yds and basically relied on the defense to score 10pts for him.

Those are your stats, Pedro!!

[bduff54]

but can somebody please agree with me that Brady deserved to start every playoff game?

[YardRat]

Once BB made the decision to go with Brady, it would have been disastrous to the Pats both last year and long term to revert to Bledsoe at anytime except for injury.

Maybe BB paid close attention to Johnson-Flutie and learned something--perhaps Wade Phillips deserves a ring for teaching him how not to handle a QB controversy.

[bduff54]

thank you yard rat. That was my whole point anyways, some people actually said Belicek shafted Drew by not giving him his job back and that Drew deserved to start.

[YardRat]

Just out of curiosity Bduff---who would you start when Warner is healthy if you were Martz?

[bduff54]

warner if he is 100%.

[YardRat]

Interesting.

[askabry]

Originally posted by bduff54
warner if he is 100%.

strange you wouldn't see the contradiction there. Its a perfect parallel, and you could go one further because even Warner got his job this exact way.

[Sweet Baboo]

Brady's got a special spot in his heart...what's so interesting about that? it's obvious now...

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by askabry
strange you wouldn't see the contradiction there. Its a perfect parallel, and you could go one further because even Warner got his job this exact way.


warner if he's 100%, but not drew? Thanks bduff!

[bduff54]

no guys the difference is Warner has won that team a superbowl, Warner when healthy might be the best QB in this league. Bledsoe at the time had missed prety much a whole season, warner has only missed about 5 games. If Warner fails, Bulger goes right back in.

[bduff54]

thanks for what? I love Bledsoe, they are completely different situations!

[Psychosis]

no sorry bduff, you can't get yourself out of this one. btw drew was 100% way before the season ended. I meant thanks for the contradiction,really.

[bduff54]

what contradiction??? Warner is one of the best QB's in the league, he can run that O to perfection, The Rams would be stupid not to play him. Bulger has done well and Excellent last week but this is Warners team. Bledsoe at the time was not the leader of the team, Brady was. The Patriot Players were behind him 100%.

[D-Rocafella]

And what Bledsoe is not a great QB?

You said that Warner shouls start when he is 100% because he is great and has been the starter.

Wasen't that the same situation last year in NE. Isin't Bledsoe a great QB, and wasen't he 100% by like week 8.

So why do you put Warner back in but keep Bledsoe out last year?

[Sweet Baboo]

because he's a Brady freak...how much more evidence do you need before that is established? it's getting to the point where it's almost Flutie Flakish...
does this thread really need to continue?

[Psychosis]

not the leader? are you kidding me? He did as much for that team by not saying anything and being a supporter for that team. I'm sure drew gave his share of pep talks too. Not many qbs have succeeded in that department. Bledsoe may have not won a superbowl, but he's been there and knows what it takes to get there. Brady wasn't the sole inspiration to the whole patriots team turnaround. To my knowledge brady hasn't been very vocal as a leader should be until they had their losing streak just recently. Brady wasn't really any type of leader. They started winning games because he played mistake free football ala trent dilfer for the superbowl champ ravens and ray lewis was the real leader of that team. You can't actually believe brady was the leader of that team? That's far fetched if you ask me. The real leaders of that patriots team that won the superbowl last year were the guys that have been there for years. All the units made a complete turnaround likely because of those leaders. So in your argument brady is a leader by default just because he was the starting qb back then and he helped them win games.Marc bulger must be the leader of the whole rams team, not kurt warner. Heck lets have the rams trade warner and choose bulger as the starting qb. That is the brady formula isnt it.

[Psychosis]

My fellow posters we are facing a bonafied contradiction in the making.

[D-Rocafella]

I think bduff is latin for contradiction?

[beach2nd]

Originally posted by fna0356
Did Brady have any TDs in the last playoff run? I think he tossed 3 td's in the last 8 games of the yr correct?

BTW..Drew in his SB tossed 3 tds, 21 offensive points and 340yds and had the defense give up 14pts to D. Howard on run backs.

Brady tossed one td, scored 10 offensive pts and had 140yds and basically relied on the defense to score 10pts for him.

Those are your stats, Pedro!!

You also forgot to mention that Bledsoe's name is in the record books for most interceptions thrown in a super bowl. :slam:

[D-Rocafella]

Hey bduff, let me know when your birthday comes up. I got the perfect gift for you. I'm sure Dantes will be in on this with me.

Just let me know two things

1) what's your jersey size (48, 50, 52, 54)

2) do you perfer a Patriots white jersey or dark blue.

[bduff54]

yes d-roccafella Bledsoe is great, but was he great in that offense??? NO!!! Is warner great in Martz's offense??? Yes!!! That is why Warner starts and Bledsoe sits!

[bduff54]

why would i want a patriots jersey, my Bills jerseys are fine thanks. Sorry if you get mad at me for liking other players in the league.

[D-Rocafella]

Hey, I like other players in the leauge too. Guys like David Boston, Ed McCafferey, and Donovan McNabb to name a few. But how can you like a player in our divison. Someone who we battle twice every year. I hate each and every Patriot, Dolphin, and Jet with all my heart. Hell, I still hate Manning, James, and Harrison even though they are out of our divison.

[D-Rocafella]

And bduff the jersey thing is a joke, your probaly more of a teel and orange guy... JK.

[bduff54]

i can't hate the pats, sorry man, I do hate the fins however, the Pats last year impressed me so much. That thing at the SB when they came out as a team was awesome, if we go out i want the Pats to win the superbowl.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
yes d-roccafella Bledsoe is great, but was he great in that offense??? NO!!! Is warner great in Martz's offense??? Yes!!! That is why Warner starts and Bledsoe sits!


how can you be so quick to judge so early that bledsoe wasn't good for the offense when he only played two games?? He looked great coming in for brady when he got injured in that OFFENSE.

[bduff54]

did he?? i watched the game Drew played well but not great, he had more incompletions than completions. Brady runs that offnese better, it is as simple as that.

[Psychosis]

Your're asking a guy in drew who's so used to stretching the field and a vertical attack to start playing in a conservative offense all of a sudden? C'mon its not as easy as it sounds. Drew has been in that type of system since his college days. Obviously he needed some time to develop in that offense. I don't expect for a qb like that to completely get used to a different offense very quickly, especially in just two games. Wasn't belichek's intention to showcase that offense to limit drew's ints?? You have to give it time. You've got a point of brady also being fit for that offense because he doesn't have the arm to play in the offense drew had in foxboro prior to that year. So I disagree that drew couldn't be fit for that system. Eventually he showed he could coexist in that offense in the game against pitt.

[Psychosis]

also, does it really matter how many completions and imcompletions he had in that game? He got the job done and delivered the GW touchdown. You can't expect a qb to make 21 consecutive passes in every game like rich gannon did last night against denver, especially when you've got about two minutes left going against you. You have to rush and move the offense quickly. You're more anxious than calm, thus possibly leading to more imcompletions than completions. Even tom brady who you say is only fit for that system hasn't really always had perfect stats as far as completions and imcompletions go.

[pilsnertobills]

god you people are nuts...i hate the bills...but i am not afraid to say Moulds and Bledsoe are great...are they the best at their position...NO...but are still nice...

[Sweet Baboo]

another contradiction...you say Bledsoe was running the Pats offense horribly in the 2 games before he got hurt...warner ran the Rams offense like crap for 4 games before he got hurt...why put him back? Bulger is amazing in the Rams offense now...

so you still think Warner should come in? you need better reasons...

[OnlyOneYeti]

I still think it was mostly Martz who messed up by not running Marshall enough.

[fna0356]

Originally posted by Sweet Baboo
Brady's got a special spot in his heart...what's so interesting about that? it's obvious now...

Brady has a heart murmur..great..can Billijerk get one too!!

[Pedrorocks458]

Everyone on the Patriots' offense said Brady was inspirational to them, as he brought a little fire and energy to the huddle and made them believe they could win. Thats a leader.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
Your're asking a guy in drew who's so used to stretching the field and a vertical attack to start playing in a conservative offense all of a sudden? C'mon its not as easy as it sounds. Drew has been in that type of system since his college days. Obviously he needed some time to develop in that offense. I don't expect for a qb like that to completely get used to a different offense very quickly, especially in just two games. Wasn't belichek's intention to showcase that offense to limit drew's ints?? You have to give it time. You've got a point of brady also being fit for that offense because he doesn't have the arm to play in the offense drew had in foxboro prior to that year. So I disagree that drew couldn't be fit for that system. Eventually he showed he could coexist in that offense in the game against pitt.

He looked terrible in the system. Yet, you insist any QB could play well in that system because its all dinks and dunks.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
also, does it really matter how many completions and imcompletions he had in that game? He got the job done and delivered the GW touchdown. You can't expect a qb to make 21 consecutive passes in every game like rich gannon did last night against denver, especially when you've got about two minutes left going against you. You have to rush and move the offense quickly. You're more anxious than calm, thus possibly leading to more imcompletions than completions. Even tom brady who you say is only fit for that system hasn't really always had perfect stats as far as completions and imcompletions go.

Actually, he has had unbelievable completion percentages.

[bduff54]

Dantes, you say Drew could have been good in that offense eventually, right? Why ait for a 30 year old to develop when you have the perfect 25 year old sitting right behind him. They made the right call and if you argue against it you are just being stubborn.

[D-Rocafella]

They did make the right decison. They kept Brady, and gave us Bledsoe. For that I will always thnk the Patriots.

[bduff54]

me too d-roccafela. go bills!

[thegame]

What is the debate here? Is it that Brady is better than Bledsoe, or that he's a great QB? Why ask such questions. In the NFL, managing the game, avoiding turnovers, and making the smart play are what wins games at the Quarterback position. There are only a handful of guys who can throw downfield like Drew, theres Favre, Manning, Garcia and maybe Warner. The other guys like Fiedler, Brady, Pennington, Gannon, Greise, Maddox, and McNair win and get the job done by throwing short, not making the big mistake and giving the defence and running game a chance to come up big. Then there are guys like Vick, McNabb, Brooks and Culpepper who defy the idea of a classic QB. In any case, the QB should not be measured in the "he sucks because he doesn't throw long" realm of thinking, they should be measured in how they lead, both by word and example, and if they give the other 50 guys on the team a chance to do their job and win. No one man, not even Drew or Favre, can do it on their own. Where Brady got roughed up was when the gameplan called for him to throw 50 times, that was not his game. He did it right two weeks ago in Buffalo, he didn't turn it over, he got the ball to playmakers like Faulk and Antawan, and he won.

I don't get the need to hammer the guy like so many do. He's not Drew, they are nothing alike on the field. There is no comparison of styles, the only one I see is that both are great team leaders, and New England would not have the ring without the contributions of them both.

[bduff54]

i know the game, but there are guys on this board who are so obsessed with bledsoe they think he was shafted by belichek and that Drew should have started in the playoffs.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Everyone on the Patriots' offense said Brady was inspirational to them, as he brought a little fire and energy to the huddle and made them believe they could win. Thats a leader.


what else would they say? C'mon hasn't been very vocal until they started losing those games this year. They were saying brady has never been the type to get in your face if you mess up.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Sweet Baboo
another contradiction...you say Bledsoe was running the Pats offense horribly in the 2 games before he got hurt...warner ran the Rams offense like crap for 4 games before he got hurt...why put him back? Bulger is amazing in the Rams offense now...

so you still think Warner should come in? you need better reasons...



i know it's still a contradiction. :rolleyes:

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
He looked terrible in the system. Yet, you insist any QB could play well in that system because its all dinks and dunks.


you say that only after two games? some fans just have no patience. Yes any qb could play well in that system eventually. Drew showed me he could handle it in that pitt game. I didn't realize it was a pure dink and dunk system pedro? Is that true? All I said before is that they have done that a lot recenlty in their games this year, but didn't you say that was because it was brady's checkdown receiver? Hell drew can throw screens too and to his checkdown receiver...that's why we have larry centers.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
Dantes, you say Drew could have been good in that offense eventually, right? Why ait for a 30 year old to develop when you have the perfect 25 year old sitting right behind him. They made the right call and if you argue against it you are just being stubborn.



so what? My argument had nothing to do with age bduff. But if you want to go there kurt Warner is older than bulger. Should martz go with bulger all the way and dump warner? See bduff, you contradict yourself over and over. However, like i've been saying all along it's about loyalty and faith. I'm not saying to keep playing drew if he's playing horrible after about five games, but he only got two games. Do we need to lookup the meaning of a backup qb in the football dictionary? Brady-backup qb who had to his job and give the team a chance to win. As soon as starter got healthy he went back to clipboard duties. Isn't that the job of a backup qb? see most head coaches in this league will tell you a starters job is not up for grabs just because of injury, but in belicheks head it is.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by D-Rocafella
They did make the right decison. They kept Brady, and gave us Bledsoe. For that I will always thnk the Patriots.


hey i'm glad it worked out the way it did. I'm not arguing that. We got one of the better qbs in the league. I'm only debating this from a hypothetical and ethical view. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[bduff54]

Warner is the leader of that team, everybody knows it. Bledsoe at that point was merely a beaten down veteran. The decision was easy for belichek, Martz o nthe other hand has the best option for his offense i nthere with warner, bledsoe hadn't performed well in a few years.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Actually, he has had unbelievable completion percentages.



last year? or this year?

This year as of right now he has a 65.7%
and drew has a 63.6%


that's not that far off especially when drew is in a different system. Brady should be ahead of rich gannon who has a 70% in a similar offense.

[bduff54]

why should brady be ahead of Gannon?

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
Warner is the leader of that team, everybody knows it. Bledsoe at that point was merely a beaten down veteran. The decision was easy for belichek, Martz o nthe other hand has the best option for his offense i nthere with warner, bledsoe hadn't performed well in a few years.



a beaten down veteran? Oh please...they both won zero games, but warner is still the leader and drew wasn't? You're not helping yourself here bduff. Drew was as much of a leader in that team and has been for years even if things weren't going too well. I guess that means warner a beaten down veteran too...heck they started 0-4 or something like that. Things weren't going well but he's still the leader? Of course the decision was easy for belichek..he's done it in the past. Someone here told me he sat down bernie kosar the browns starting qb at that time because he has been playing terrible. Drew didnt play that well in two games, but after he got got healthy he should have gotten another opportunity. Warner has always had better players than drew has had in NE. Drew's career was sliding, but that's because all those guys like curtin martin and ben coates were gone.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
why should brady be ahead of Gannon?


similar short passing offenses
after all isn't brady the next greatest qb?
He was able to surpass an older vetetan bledsoe in NE, why couldn't he surpass another veteran rich gannon in stats. :worship:

[bduff54]

drew hadn't played well in a few years Dantes, the first 2 games just confirmed it. Warner led that team to the superbowl a year ago, he was never healthy at the start of this season and now he is. If he fails when he comes back Bulger should go right back in there. I know Warner has always had better players, but Brady got the most out of the players he had, Troy Brown got more involved, Antowain smith became a bigger force. It was a great move.

[bduff54]

that last post is just ignorant. did i say he was the next "great Qb"?

[Psychosis]

bduff I'm aware drew's career was sliding. Those were two games in a new system. Of course that didn't help matters. Like I said before...the complete turnaround wasn't because of brady ONLY. It was all leaders on that team who woke things up. Of course they're gonna get behind brady...he's their qb, but I wouldn't say it's a coincidence that they all started playing well as a team because of brady by himself. Don't get me wrong in all of this bduff. I will give brady credit for last year because here's a backup qb who did his job and gave the team a chance to win. He did his job. I won't go as far as saying brady was the sole spark that made the team do a complete 180 though.

[naeliac]

Originally posted by thegame
What is the debate here? Is it that Brady is better than Bledsoe, or that he's a great QB? Why ask such questions. In the NFL, managing the game, avoiding turnovers, and making the smart play are what wins games at the Quarterback position. There are only a handful of guys who can throw downfield like Drew, theres Favre, Manning, Garcia and maybe Warner. The other guys like Fiedler, Brady, Pennington, Gannon, Greise, Maddox, and McNair win and get the job done by throwing short, not making the big mistake and giving the defence and running game a chance to come up big. Then there are guys like Vick, McNabb, Brooks and Culpepper who defy the idea of a classic QB. In any case, the QB should not be measured in the "he sucks because he doesn't throw long" realm of thinking, they should be measured in how they lead, both by word and example, and if they give the other 50 guys on the team a chance to do their job and win. No one man, not even Drew or Favre, can do it on their own. Where Brady got roughed up was when the gameplan called for him to throw 50 times, that was not his game. He did it right two weeks ago in Buffalo, he didn't turn it over, he got the ball to playmakers like Faulk and Antawan, and he won.

I don't get the need to hammer the guy like so many do. He's not Drew, they are nothing alike on the field. There is no comparison of styles, the only one I see is that both are great team leaders, and New England would not have the ring without the contributions of them both.

Those quarterbacks you mentioned, Garcia and Manning, while good and accurate cannot throw good fastballs. Manning has a great release and some outstanding touch on the ball, but he throws some real wobblers, Garcia is very accurate, especially on the move, but cannot light the ball up like Bledsoe or Favre.

McNair has (or at least had before his shoulder injury) a very strong arm, and Maddox and Griese can put some heat on the ball too. Culpepper and Vick have some rocket arms, Vick may have the best pure throwing arm since George.

[bduff54]

yeah vick is sick, all i am saying is when Brady got in there at Qb the team chemistry changed, he was the right choice.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
yeah vick is sick, all i am saying is when Brady got in there at Qb the team chemistry changed, he was the right choice.


bduff would you say that brady is the only reason the team made a complete turnaround?
Now away from my hypothetical and ethical view, brady was the right choice because we got drew.

[bduff54]

no way. Brady wasn't on Defense. Brady was just a cog in the wheel, but if belichelk had picked Drew he would have ruined that chemistry.

[Psychosis]

maybe...if it was drew the players still would have rallied around him.

[EricStratton]

Originally posted by bduff54
no way. Brady wasn't on Defense. Brady was just a cog in the wheel, but if belichelk had picked Drew he would have ruined that chemistry.


Team chemistry is over-rated. Winning teams have good "chemistry", losing teams have bad "chemistry".

[bduff54]

maybe they would have Dantes, but would you take that risk?

[EricStratton]

The Rams will be a good measure of that. If Warner comes back after a 5 game winning streak (thats if the Rams win monday) and they keep winning then I think Drew could have done the same last year. If they don't then the same would have applied to last years Pats.

The other similarity is the Rams changed style when Warner went down (more running) as did the Pats. Maybe it's the style that wins as much as the QB.

[Psychosis]

if I said no my whole argument would be for nothing. I stand by the philosophy that a qb shouldn't lose his job due to injury even he just played two games before that injury. However, i'm glad belichek took that risk because we ended up getting the goods.

[askabry]

Originally posted by bduff54
no guys the difference is Warner has won that team a superbowl, Warner when healthy might be the best QB in this league. Bledsoe at the time had missed prety much a whole season, warner has only missed about 5 games. If Warner fails, Bulger goes right back in.



You ignore the parallel argument- which is that Warner kept his job when Trent Green became healthy (again, that was before the playoffs).

Warner can't have it both ways- to win the job through an injury, but not lose it the same way.

[Psychosis]

yeah..drew didn't win anyone's job. He got drafted by the pats FO to be the franchise qb. Who'd ever thought he'd lose it because of injury after only two games and becuase his backup started winning games.

[bduff54]

actually ask, Green tore his ACL and was out for the whole seasn.

[captain]

The turn-around was not immediate when Brady stepped on the field in 2001. Bledose played well in game 1 and poorly in game 2. The other units did nothing. Brady played poorly in games 3 and 4 and then had a hot streak that coincided with some improvement by the other units that ran until Bledsoe was declared ready to play. At that point Belichick reneged on a promise to Bledsoe that he would have a chance to compete for his job and Brady was handed the reigns for the rest of the season. It was a promise that probably shouldn't have been made, and if it hadn't maybe things would have turned out somewhat differently than they had for the Bills. There also appears to have been some continuing question at the time as to Bledsoe's health which affected the decision according to Patriots' assistant coach Pepper Johnson in a new book.

In any case, Brady's statistical performances thereafter during the stretch run were fairly pedestrian though he did continue to show leadership and win close games. However, the defense played much better during our 9 game win streak that followed and allowed only 14 PPG during that stretch. Special teams also significantly raised their contribution during that run and the run game played fairly well consistently. IMO a lot of QBs could have won under those circumstances, and during that streak, the passing game, while adequate, was the least of the reasons for our success. However, it's also true that Brady played very well under the circumstances, showed superior leadership ability in winning 5 games in the 4th quarter and OT during the year, and demonstrated one of the better short games in the NFL. Brady also had an advantage in youth and Bledsoe had not played well during the prior 2 years although that may well have been the result of a lack of talent around him. Finally, I suspect on a personal level, Belichick had a better relationship with Brady than he ever had with Bledsoe. It was not unreasonable under those circumstances for Belichick to prefer Brady for the offense the Patriots were running.

Conversely, you could say the same about preferring Bledsoe for the Bills' offense. He's got a better long ball for your vertical game than most NFL QBs and Brady's so far appears below average. Bledsoe has also shown the ability to lead teams during his career and is one game off Elway's record pace for Q4/OT comebacks. Finally Bledsoe has carried teams whereas Brady has not been in that situation yet. In a sense it was win-win situation, though I think most outside observers would say the Bills got the better of the deal given what they gave up and got and because the Patriots strengthened a divisional rival.

[OnlyOneYeti]

Originally posted by naeliac
Those quarterbacks you mentioned, Garcia and Manning, while good and accurate cannot throw good fastballs. Manning has a great release and some outstanding touch on the ball, but he throws some real wobblers, Garcia is very accurate, especially on the move, but cannot light the ball up like Bledsoe or Favre.

McNair has (or at least had before his shoulder injury) a very strong arm, and Maddox and Griese can put some heat on the ball too. Culpepper and Vick have some rocket arms, Vick may have the best pure throwing arm since George.
That's pretty accurate. I never really thought Griese had a cannon, but Vick definitely has the biggest cannon out there, as far as pure strength goes. Maybe this should be on another thread, but everybody seems to be forgetting another guy with a cannon...
Aaron Brooks, my boy from UVA. That guy throws laser beams.

p.s. Captain, you might be my hero (at least as far as Pats fans go :) ). You've got some real interesting threads on the Pats vs. the Bills. Keep it up!

[BuffaBri]

Ya captain puts up some nice informative posts
Their mostly unbiased too. :)

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
what else would they say? C'mon hasn't been very vocal until they started losing those games this year. They were saying brady has never been the type to get in your face if you mess up.

Actually, if we want to talk about not getting in people's faces, look at your QB. That was THE knock on him.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
you say that only after two games? some fans just have no patience. Yes any qb could play well in that system eventually. Drew showed me he could handle it in that pitt game. I didn't realize it was a pure dink and dunk system pedro? Is that true? All I said before is that they have done that a lot recenlty in their games this year, but didn't you say that was because it was brady's checkdown receiver? Hell drew can throw screens too and to his checkdown receiver...that's why we have larry centers.

I'm pointing out a contradiction. You say any QB can play in that system because its all dinks and dunks, I don't think that, you do. Yet, Bledsoe looked terrible in that system in those two games, and the season before, with Weis as OC.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
last year? or this year?

This year as of right now he has a 65.7%
and drew has a 63.6%


that's not that far off especially when drew is in a different system. Brady should be ahead of rich gannon who has a 70% in a similar offense.
You said Brady wasn't always that great with completion percentages. Well, he actually always has been.

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
hey i'm glad it worked out the way it did. I'm not arguing that. We got one of the better qbs in the league. I'm only debating this from a hypothetical and ethical view. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Ethical? Where do ethics come into play?

[Pedrorocks458]

Originally posted by Dantes
bduff I'm aware drew's career was sliding. Those were two games in a new system. Of course that didn't help matters. Like I said before...the complete turnaround wasn't because of brady ONLY. It was all leaders on that team who woke things up. Of course they're gonna get behind brady...he's their qb, but I wouldn't say it's a coincidence that they all started playing well as a team because of brady by himself. Don't get me wrong in all of this bduff. I will give brady credit for last year because here's a backup qb who did his job and gave the team a chance to win. He did his job. I won't go as far as saying brady was the sole spark that made the team do a complete 180 though.

Actually, Bledsoe had spent the year before with Weis as OC.

[Pedrorocks458]

Yeah, Captains posts are informative because he can't get enough of Bledsoe, regardless of what jersey he wears, so obviously you agree with him. My question is, didn't the Bills strengthen a divison rival too? They took a messy QB situation off of our hands, and gave us a 1st round pick. What do you call that? Fans don't see immediate results from that pick, so they think the Bills won the trade.

[EricStratton]

Thats a good point Pedro. The QB situation in NE could have gotten ugly. You know during the 4 game slide the fans would have been calling for Drew like mad and it could have blown up. That did help NE.

The pick is an unknown being that it will be a mid-round guy and college picks are crap shoots anyway.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Actually, if we want to talk about not getting in people's faces, look at your QB. That was THE knock on him.


early this year...i havent seen brady do that once. All brady did was open his mouth to the media.

[bduff54]

see what your problem is Dante?? You love Bledsoe so much (so do I) but i can see a good football decision by belichek, you on the other hand choose to ignore it!

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
I'm pointing out a contradiction. You say any QB can play in that system because its all dinks and dunks, I don't think that, you do. Yet, Bledsoe looked terrible in that system in those two games, and the season before, with Weis as OC.


do me a favor and learn how to comprehend the reading material in front of your eyes. Were my exact words that any qb could play in that system because it's a dink and dunk? No I don't see that anywhere. I said that eventually any qb could learn that offense because it's conservative and supposed to limit mistakes. Did drew really do that bad in 2000? I didn't know weis was there in 2000. Doesn't make much of a difference anyway. I thought weis brought that new system in 2001, and it takes a while for a qb to fully get comfortable under a new system. That's a fact. If he was there in 2000, then he was still getting comfortable in that system. Heck It takes a qb about one to two years to grasp and fully get comfortable under the WCO. Actually I did some research and saw a significant improvement under weis as the coordinator in 2000 instead of '99. Whether he got fully comfortable with in 2000 is not known. The following year 2001 he got off to a slow start, but you can't really say he couldn't have done better in that offense since 2000 after two games?

in '99 he had 19 TDs and 21 Ints
in 2000 he had 17 and just 13 ints
The only thing that dropped in 2000 were his yards. In 2000 he also had a better completion % than '99.
Is that still terrible to you? that's pretty amazing considering the lack of weapons he had.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
You said Brady wasn't always that great with completion percentages. Well, he actually always has been.


not in all his games..

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Ethical? Where do ethics come into play?


it comes into play into everything we do in life. Whether you choose to do that correct or wrong thing is your choice. Of course it doesn't really matter because i'm happy with the events and that we got drew. Hypothetically it was done wrong.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by Pedrorocks458
Yeah, Captains posts are informative because he can't get enough of Bledsoe, regardless of what jersey he wears, so obviously you agree with him. My question is, didn't the Bills strengthen a divison rival too? They took a messy QB situation off of our hands, and gave us a 1st round pick. What do you call that? Fans don't see immediate results from that pick, so they think the Bills won the trade.


Captain's posts are more convincing than yours.

[Psychosis]

Originally posted by bduff54
see what your problem is Dante?? You love Bledsoe