John Butler!!!!

[bduff54]

I recall many people bashing him for his signings of players, well i think it is time to give him some credit for his 6-1 chargers. LT and Bress may have been one of the best Drafts ever. Good job Butler.

[BillsFanInMass]

I'll give Butler all the credit in the world for his ability to evaluate talent. He's one of the best there is at doing that.

The knock on Butler is how he operates in a salary cap environment. He brought a lot of great players to Buffalo, but he created a huge cap mess. He's currently bringing some great players to SD. Let's see what their cap situation is in a few years.

[goobylal]

I'll give Butler credit for trading down from the #1 overall spot, but LDT and Brees were no-brainer picks, Brees especially whose availability in the 2nd round was more luck than anything else. We'll see how long the team can stay together though with the cap problems that are looming.

[TITUS]

LT and Brees fell into his lap after he passed on the opportunity to get M. Vick, who they were afraid was going to be another Leaf. With the big money they paid to Dwight and that CB they'll be in salcap jail in a while like we were.
The person who deserves credit for their start is Schottenheimer for bringing some discipline and having the courage to sit Dougie on the bench, not Butler.

[bduff54]

lol, hilarious, LT was by no means a lock, he was a RB from a relatively small school who had a great college career, Butler has done wonders for that team. Wiley, Donnie Edwards, Flutie (to help Brees).

[EricStratton]

Getting talent has never been Butlers problem, it's keeping talent thats the problem. The Chargers will be in the same boat the Bills were in in 2-4 years.

[EricStratton]

Originally posted by bduff54
lol, hilarious, LT was by no means a lock, he was a RB from a relatively small school who had a great college career, Butler has done wonders for that team. Wiley, Donnie Edwards, Flutie (to help Brees).

LT was a lock Duff, he was the rage of the draft the year he came out. The trade with Atlanta was a great deal for the Chargers, they got to draft LT (the 2-4 picks fell his way) and Brees fell to his pick (luck maybe but thats the game).

[TITUS]

Originally posted by EricStratton
Getting talent has never been Butlers problem, it's keeping talent thats the problem. The Chargers will be in the same boat the Bills were in in 2-4 years.

Exactly. The man is a better scout than GM.

[Stealth01]

Agreed -- he drafted well and the Chargers look in good shape this year. But finding talent, as pointed out above, was never Buttler's problem. Keeping the cap manageable was. He's an accounting moron.

If SD doesn't win the Super Bowl this year or next, their hopes are shot because their cap will be blown.

[Realistic]

This thread shows some ignorance from several poster know for that. You see, Butler detractors, he IS NOT IN CHARGE OF SALARY NEGOTIATIONS in SD, nor he he the man responsible for managing the cap. Now, you'll try and say "he's the GM so he's ultimately responsible". Sorry, the owner has specifically said he wants butler to get the talent but his money man to handle the rest.

As far as "cap jail", that was a very short term problem here as we had a good team right through 2000. The problem, as we all know, was rob. Ralph insisted he play and the talent was wasted.

The other big problem is that Butler's last draft was a disaster. If that draft produces the type of layers he typicaly found, no 3-13 season.

Now as far as LT being a "lock", what the heII are you talking about? Do you know that if he was drafted 5th that means 4 other teams had a shot at him? Why wasn't he a lock for THEM?

No, JB took 2 yrs off the rebuilding process by trading Vick's rights and getting just what he needed. Why could he do this? because he knew he had Flutie to keep the team progressig for a year well things jelled. The chargers were a good team last year save for some awful coaching and some "D" lapses late in games.

[JoeMama]

bduff,

You're on real roll today...

John Butler had 19 million in free cap space & has already squandered all of it on "elite" players like Tim Dwight, Stephan Alexander, Jason Fisk, & Cory Raymer. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he overpayed?

No one has ever ripped Butler for being a poor evaluator of talent. Granted, his 2000 draft was the worst piece of crap I've ever seen, but overall, he was great getting solid picks in the late first round. Moulds, Winfield, etc. Finding talent is his speciality.

Here's his problem. Spending money like there's no salary cap. Overpaying for marginal talent. Putting franchises into cap hell.

Oh by the way, the Chargers are going to be screwed very soon.

[BILLSareBACK]

Butler never got the Bills back to the superbowl,so the verdict is still out on him,san diego started fast out of the gate last year,so lets wait and see what happens.

[JoeMama]

Realistic,

Ed McGuire must have the same strategy as John Butler. These contracts are Butler-esque. Aka: Overpaying mediocre players.

If Butler has no influence & McGuire is a "capologist" then why are the Chargers heading towards salary cap jail?

[JoeMama]

Uh oh... the Flutie Fruities are back at full force.

Someone should tell them their hero is 40 & riding the pine.

[Realistic]

What does someone pointing out butler's success have to do with flutie, joema? and btw, you CLAIM the chargers are headed for cap jail, but I'll bet you REALLY have no idea what you're talking about. If you know it to be true, I assume you have their players cap #' over the next few years from which you made your conclusion ?!?!?!?

Didn't think so. You just decided to make it up, didn't you? If not, how 'bout you share some of these figures you used to conclude they are headed for cap jail soon.

[TigerJ]

John Butler has made some great picks over the years in the draft. He also managed the 2000 draft for Buffalo, which was a total bust. Whether or not he signs players and manages the cap in SD, he did some real bonehead deals when he worked for Ralph Wilson. I am happy knowing Buffalo has Tom Donohoe in charge of both talent and cap management. I think he's doing very nicely, thank you.

San Diego is doing quite well at the moment, but whoever's fault it is, it looks like they are on the fast track toward salary cap jail. San Diego just about has to do it this year or the roof falls in. Buffalo could make a run at the playoffs this year, but if they do fall short, they are in a position to get better next year. I doubt San Diego can say that. I wouldn't change a thing.

[askabry]

Let's hold the phone here on Butler's renowned ability to assess talent. This year he signed these players:

Stephen Alexander
Tim Dwight
Cory Raymer
Jason Fisk

I don't see how that explains any great capacity for knowing talent. Another thing...if John Butler tells the guy "managing" the cap he wants Cory Raymer, then the deal gets made. As GM, he defacto negotiates the contracts because he knows what players are demanding. Let's not be naive.

[bduff54]

well lets see asakabry, the chargers are 6-1 so those players must not be doing too badly. The NFL is a win now league, looka the ravens, they went for it all and screwed the cap, what was the end result???? A superbowl championship.

[Stanley Climbfall]

sure i'll give him credit, but he left us high and dry with a bad cap. If we had a better cap we probably wouldn't have been as bad last year. Who knows..

[Max997]

Butlers best move was hiring Shottenheimer(spelling)
Just shows how much of a DUMBA$$ daniel snyder really is. Marty can flat out coach

[Realistic]

Ask, I see you left off a few of the key JB signings this year. Why? Were you trying to give a false impression of what REALLY was done to make SD a contender? Was it an oversight? or do you not know what you're commenting on?

Tim Dwight has been absolutely critical to their great start btw. Wait until the end of this season and see what an impact #2 WR commands in this league (P Price). Butler is paying for PROVEN production. The chargers hold a hard line on rookies who've never done a thing in the NFL. Donahoe operates this way as well, but is a bit less agressive in the FA market so far.

[Mouldsie]

I give him credit for being able to grab 2 great players, but I will not give him credit fro trading down and pasing on Vick. I thought he was an idiot for that, of course I did not know how good LT was and NOBODY thought Brees would fall so low! I will not say it was the right or wrong call. It would have worked out either way IMO.


p.s. SD is facing cap hell as soon as NEXT YEAR :rolleyes:

[TITUS]

Originally posted by Realistic
This thread shows some ignorance from several poster know for that. You see, Butler detractors, he IS NOT IN CHARGE OF SALARY NEGOTIATIONS in SD, nor he he the man responsible for managing the cap. Now, you'll try and say "he's the GM so he's ultimately responsible". Sorry, the owner has specifically said he wants butler to get the talent but his money man to handle the rest.

The problem, as we all know, was rob. Ralph insisted he play and the talent was wasted.

Now as far as LT being a "lock", what the heII are you talking about? Do you know that if he was drafted 5th that means 4 other teams had a shot at him? Why wasn't he a lock for THEM?

The chargers were a good team last year save for some awful coaching and some "D" lapses late in games.

If Butler isn't in charge of negotiations, why does he hold the tiltle
"general manager?" I don't know how Spanos runs his org., but if its like most NFL teams, the GM does the negotiations. That's how TD does here and what he did in Pittsburgh. If he isn't in charge, he should just be called "chief scout."

Yes, Rob was a problem, but he was far from the only one. Ralph wanted a return on his $25m investment, and felt he'd get it with Rob out of Flutie's shadow, but it didn't happen.

The other 4 teams probably didn't take LT because they either had other needs that were more important, or already had a proven runner.

The Chargers were an overrated team last year that started fast then sank like a rock when teams re-discovered how to defense Flutie's popgun arm and when the Raiders, Denver and KC took them on a second time and were ready for them.

P.S.- Real, are you trying to defend Butler {and by extension, downgrade TD} because you're still mad at him for booting your boy Dougie?

[pmoon6]

Butler may have overpaid for some players,but Tim Dwight has been playing his ass off.He may not have super stats,but he's doing all the little things to make the offense successful.

[jjm19672000]

He's a great talent evaluator, but he put the Bills in salary cap hell. Has anyone heard about his health lately?

[EllenL]

For jjm and any other interested posters: I am a member of the Bills Booster Club. We were recently told that John Butler remains on chemotherapy at this time. He has lost his hair, and has been told by his doctors that he should not travel to cold weather games. As anybody who ever saw JB's resolve to live his life his way can tell you, he'll probably be here for the 12/15/02 game- doctors advice be damned !!

[billsfanone]

Thanks EllenL. If you could, please send him my well wishes.

[jjm19672000]

Thanks, EllenL.