What the Buck? Gleason speaking the facts, or telling lies?

[TheAnswer74]

The Sabres have a serious recruiting problem that makes life in the NHL tougher for the entire organization. News alert: The Sabres have a poor reputation among players. It has become increasingly evident that the only way to get quality veterans into Buffalo is to force them here through trades. It’s an unpleasant way to survive.
Forget the woe-is-Buffalo excuse. Everybody knows this is a passionate hockey town, but the word has spread about the organization’s business practices. The Sabres are known more for their commitment to the bottom line than their commitment to winning. To players, it might as well be Edmonton.




Thing is, it’s difficult to see where the Sabres are going. They didn’t even bother to offer hometown defenseman Brooks Orpik a contract. He returned to Pittsburgh with a six-year deal for $22.5 million, hardly a budget-buster. He’s making $250,000 per year more than Rivet, 33, who is better offensively but six years older. The message received there was that mediocrity remains acceptable.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/386768.html

[pigpen65]

Goes back to Peca being left to rot for a year when he was the captain of the team and asking for nothing more than fair value. McKee, Briere, Drury, and Campbell certainly haven't helped the team's rep.

[bduff54]

yeah, its a tough call.

if you are a free agent do you really want to go there?

just say you do real well, i would be nervous they would pay me what i am worth and then i would have to move again.

[MikePeca27]

I thought Barnaby said during one of the WGR shows that, the Sabres do not have a bad rep around the league. I am not one to believe Bucky...he is sucky.

[RustySabre]

That's good a face value but how many players actually said they wouldn't even set foot in Buffalo to listen to an offer and how many were even asked to hear them out? In other words was it they didn't care for Buffalo or Buffalo didn't care for them? Maybe they just wouldn't fit the system here. Maybe ther were other concerns that turned the Sabres in another direction. Could have been a number of things other than money.

[anEinherjer]

Bucky hears what he wants to hear, like the people who love what George Bush is saying on a daily basis.

I'm sure there are players who hate Buffalo and plenty who like it (Barnaby). Big whoop about jack shit, really.

[TheAnswer74]

It was strange that Buffalo was voted the worst team to be traded to by the players. This was when Buffalo was #1 in the NHL.

[foster]

Also, how many times do you hear a player who is coming to Buffalo quote another Sabre or ex-Sabre about how nice of a community it is for a family and how much they have enjoyed playing in Buffalo. It seems like that's heard more often than not.

If Bucky had his way, we'd be at the limit of the cap and still without a Cup...and paying 30% more for tickets.

The Sabres are a business and to keep the business a responsible business and the team a competitive team is a delicate balancing act - which gets even more difficult when you are dealing with today, 2 years out, and 5 years out for planning.

The Sabres are building a core group of solid, young, players that should be able to have a good 3-5 year run at the cup. Detroit just pulled it off with the same approach.

[pigpen65]

It was strange that Buffalo was voted the worst team to be traded to by the players. This was when Buffalo was #1 in the NHL.

I forgot about that. Mar 28th, 2007 players poll from the hockey news. Unfortunately i can't find the actual article anymore, but i found the poll on a message board. Pretty bad. Basically two entire teams worth of players who would pick Buffalo the worst place to play :(

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%
8) New Jersey Devils and New York Rangers (9) 3.6%
9) Columbus Blue Jackets and Montreal Canadiens (8) 3.2%
10) Calgary Flames (7) 2.8%
11) Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings (6) 2.4%
12) Nashville Predators (5) 2%
13) Los Angeles Kings and Ottawa Senators (4) 1.6%
14) Philadelphia Flyers and Phoenix Coyotes (3) 1.2%
15) Atlanta Thrashers, Minnesota Wild, San Jose Sharks and Toronto Maple Leafs (2) 0.8%
16) Anaheim Ducks, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Stars and Tampa Bay Lightning (1) 0.4%

[dmbfn40]

Goes back to Peca being left to rot for a year when he was the captain of the team and asking for nothing more than fair value. McKee, Briere, Drury, and Campbell certainly haven't helped the team's rep.

Peca - sat out while he was under contract, F-him deserved to be let go

McKee - smart move, clearly not worth 4 million/year has played a grand total of 89 games in 2 years in St Louis, was a healthy scratch for several games this year

Campbell - Another smart move by the FO, not worth anywhere near the 7.1 he is getting paid. Campbell said money wasn't an issue it was length. They reportedly offered him 3 years @ 6 million. Campbell want 6 years. Instead they basically got Rivet, a 1st and a 7th for an overrated Defensemen. Not bad

Drury - They were willing to pay him, matched the Rangers offer (if you believe the media reports) he wanted to go.

Briere - Not the smarted move, the overestimated Drury wanting to be a Sabre and forgot about Briere. In the long run probably a move that had to be made. If they kept Briere, they probably couldn't afford Pominville who is going to get PAID, and is more important to the Sabres than Briere.

The only person you could make an argument for you didn't mention and that is Dumont. They walked away from an arbitration award that looks like a steal now. But if you remember correctly I don't think there was a single person who thought JP was worth that kinda of money.

[ksl66]

If I am not correct aren't the NE Patriots business practices also called into question by players throughout the NFL? Business is business, I would rather the Sabres be hardasses towards their bottom line, than be the Maple Leafs and sign any Tom, Dick and Harry who grew up in the greater Toronto Metropolitan area.

More Bucky-ganda

[pigpen65]

Is your argument that there no way an organization can possibly keep a good team together for more than a year? I would be more willing to buy into that if it hasn't been done countless times in the past by countless different teams. It's mismanagement, pure and simple. You can't grade what a guy like Campbell got through UFA vs what the Sabres could have extended him for before the season. Same goes for Drury. Same goes for Briere. Same goes for McKee.

Far as Peca, those negotiations were made very open to the public. If i remember, it may have been a difference in the range of 500k at the most? Regardless, it did not help the team to be without him, or what he ultimately brought from a trade, for the entire season. there was no reason for him to be out as long as he was. Either sign him, or trade him. It hurt the team, and it hurt the organization's image.

[pigpen65]

More Bucky-ganda

Well, there is that hockeynews poll from the players. And whatever Robert said.

[RustySabre]

Here's another question that was asked.
http://www.behindthejersey.com/2007/03/28/wings-do-well-in-player-poll/

The Hockey News conducted a poll of 283 NHL players representing all 30 teams.

If you could play for any NHL team (other than your own), which would you choose?
1) Toronto Maple Leafs (34) 14.4%
2) New York Rangers (29) 12.3%
3) Detroit Red Wings (19) 8%
4) Los Angeles Kings and Vancouver Canucks (18) 7.6%
5) Dallas Stars (15) 6.3%
6) Colorado Avalanche and Montreal Canadiens (14) 5.9%
7) Minnesota Wild and Tampa Bay Lightning (10) 4.2%
http://www.behindthejersey.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif Phoenix Coyotes (9) 3.8%
9) Calgary Flames (8) 3.4%
10) Anaheim Ducks and Florida Panthers (5) 2.1%
11) Nashville Predators, Ottawa Senators and Pittsburgh Penguins (4) 1.7%
12) Chicago Blackhawks, Philadelphia Flyers and San Jose Sharks (3) 1.2%
13) Boston Bruins and Buffalo Sabres (2) 0.85%
14) Carolina Hurricane and Edmonton Oilers (1) 0.42%

[dmbfn40]

Well, there is that hockeynews poll from the players. And whatever Robert said.

I am not a hockey insider so I don't know. But, simple reading comprehension tell me the poll was not what team would you not like to be traded to, but what city would you not like to be traded to.

Look at the cities that finished at the bottom of the list. Tampa, Dallas, Anaheim and Colorado. The poll doesn't look like it refers to FO and team, but actual city. I love Buffalo, but let face it, it doesn't exactly offer great weather, top notch entertainment, Aspen or sunny beaches like Anaheim , Tampa, Dallas and Colorado

[Blofan4life]

A FA will go to the teams that offer him the most money. If the Sabres were to offer some player the most money I don't think they would reject it. Also that lists looks like BS because how is Tampa one of the cities that the most players would want to get traded to. I also think some players would not want to get traded here just for the fact the winters stink and our city is pretty boring but once they get here, they see how our community makes up for our run down looking and acting city. Once they get here, they fall in love with the fans and the arena but probably would be reluctant to come here in the beginning.

[pigpen65]

I am not a hockey insider so I don't know. But, simple reading comprehension tell me the poll was not what team would you not like to be traded to, but what city would you not like to be traded to.

Look at the cities that finished at the bottom of the list. Tampa, Dallas, Anaheim and Colorado. The poll doesn't look like it refers to FO and team, but actual city. I love Buffalo, but let face it, it doesn't exactly offer great weather, top notch entertainment, Aspen or sunny beaches like Anaheim , Tampa, Dallas and Colorado

I think your reading comprehension is reading too far into the question. But you're right, i'm sure Buffalo's sunny Lake Erie shorelines aren't helping player opinions either.

[bduff54]

I forgot about that. Mar 28th, 2007 players poll from the hockey news. Unfortunately i can't find the actual article anymore, but i found the poll on a message board. Pretty bad. Basically two entire teams worth of players who would pick Buffalo the worst place to play :(

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%
8) New Jersey Devils and New York Rangers (9) 3.6%
9) Columbus Blue Jackets and Montreal Canadiens (8) 3.2%
10) Calgary Flames (7) 2.8%
11) Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings (6) 2.4%
12) Nashville Predators (5) 2%
13) Los Angeles Kings and Ottawa Senators (4) 1.6%
14) Philadelphia Flyers and Phoenix Coyotes (3) 1.2%
15) Atlanta Thrashers, Minnesota Wild, San Jose Sharks and Toronto Maple Leafs (2) 0.8%
16) Anaheim Ducks, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Stars and Tampa Bay Lightning (1) 0.4%


yeah but thats just because of the town really, like i have said a million times.

buffalo is not a cool place for a 26 year old rich male to live in.

[pigpen65]

yeah but thats just because of the town really, like i have said a million times.

buffalo is not a cool place for a 26 year old rich male to live in.

Well, it would be interesting to see where the Bills would place on a similar poll given to NFL players. Same city, but i doubt they would be dead last. There's just a different environment for the two teams. The Sabres reputation just sucks.

[bduff54]

Well, it would be interesting to see where the Bills would place on a similar poll given to NFL players. Same city, but i doubt they would be dead last. There's just a different environment for the two teams. The Sabres reputation just sucks.

maybe, but i doubt it would rank very high either.

we haven't won or even been good in a very long time.

i am sure it would rank pretty low.

[two4trippn]

Goes back to Peca being left to rot for a year when he was the captain of the team and asking for nothing more than fair value. McKee, Briere, Drury, and Campbell certainly haven't helped the team's rep.
You mean after rejecting double his salary during a time when the ownership was as crooked as a wedding schlong. Nice way to lead by example, he chose to rot and deserved it. True Captains lead their teams and work with their owners/GM's when needed - see Mats Sundin last season., pay cut to return and stayed when others offered rent-to-own services.

[bb69bb]

maybe, but i doubt it would rank very high either.

we haven't won or even been good in a very long time.

i am sure it would rank pretty low.

I don't know, I understand one W. McGahee was very "high" on the place.


For sabes, it's prolly a combination of city rep + business practices of management...

[Smapdi]

Buffalo isn't that bad of a city.

I think a lot of people are closed minded and do not want to even give it a chance.

You would have to be legally retarded to not be able to find anything to do in WNY.

I love the fact that I can get to the city from my house in 25 minutes while in any other city, it would be 60+ minutes.

[atomheart]

yeah but thats just because of the town really, like i have said a million times.

buffalo is not a cool place for a 26 year old rich male to live in.

Just so we have this clear. Buffalo is not a cool place for a 26 year old poor male to live in either ;)

[stevesy]

Buffalo isn't that bad of a city.

I think a lot of people are closed minded and do not want to even give it a chance.

You would have to be legally retarded to not be able to find anything to do in WNY.

I love the fact that I can get to the city from my house in 25 minutes while in any other city, it would be 60+ minutes.

Oh gosh, let's try not to turn this into a defend Buffalo thread.

It's obvious most cities in the NHL (and any pro sport for that matter) are more desirable environments for filthy rich 20-somethings. For a variety of reasons. It's not because people haven't given it a chance or because they're close minded.

[Schony]

Peca - sure he was under contact but these things get worked out all the time...not having him for the playoffs that year cost us at least a trip to the semi-finals against NJ and maybe more - we had a pretty good team then. Also was the final nail in Hasek's decision to leave.

McKee - could have been signed for a lot less than 4 - wanted to stay, was Buffalo guy through and through - team should have shown more respect.

Campbell - could have been signed for a lot less, again - another miss by the FO, even after the previous years fiasco. Overrated maybe and now overpaid for sure but was arguably our best player at the time of trade....once again no playoffs without him.

Drury - No argument here except the FO chased the wrong guy...Drury never went out of his way to say how much he liked Buffalo and wanted to stay. Also, you can teach anyone how to check but you can't teach a guy how to score.

Briere - "If they kept Briere, they probably couldn't afford Pominville who is going to get PAID, and is more important to the Sabres than Briere." I'll wait til I see a few more seasons before agreeing to this...I hope you're right.

All in all, the FO that was universally lauded by everyone around the NHL for forseeing the "New" NHL has done a pretty poor job recently of 1) recognizing changing market values for players 2) recognizing that the NHL has again changed - small and quick is no longer good enough, and 3) selling Buffalo as a progressive organization that players want to come to.

[comericatigers]

If I am not correct aren't the NE Patriots business practices also called into question by players throughout the NFL? Business is business, I would rather the Sabres be hardasses towards their bottom line, than be the Maple Leafs and sign any Tom, Dick and Harry who grew up in the greater Toronto Metropolitan area.

More Bucky-ganda

The Patriots win. The Sabres do not.

The Patriots continue to have Pro Bowler's. The Sabres do not.

[comericatigers]

Ok, so the question is, what have the Buffalo Sabres done to have a good reputation in the league that would want to make players come here?

[dmbfn40]

Peca - sure he was under contact but these things get worked out all the time...not having him for the playoffs that year cost us at least a trip to the semi-finals against NJ and maybe more - we had a pretty good team then. Also was the final nail in Hasek's decision to leave.

McKee - could have been signed for a lot less than 4 - wanted to stay, was Buffalo guy through and through - team should have shown more respect.

Campbell - could have been signed for a lot less, again - another miss by the FO, even after the previous years fiasco. Overrated maybe and now overpaid for sure but was arguably our best player at the time of trade....once again no playoffs without him.

Drury - No argument here except the FO chased the wrong guy...Drury never went out of his way to say how much he liked Buffalo and wanted to stay. Also, you can teach anyone how to check but you can't teach a guy how to score.

Briere - "If they kept Briere, they probably couldn't afford Pominville who is going to get PAID, and is more important to the Sabres than Briere." I'll wait til I see a few more seasons before agreeing to this...I hope you're right.

All in all, the FO that was universally lauded by everyone around the NHL for forseeing the "New" NHL has done a pretty poor job recently of 1) recognizing changing market values for players 2) recognizing that the NHL has again changed - small and quick is no longer good enough, and 3) selling Buffalo as a progressive organization that players want to come to.

We appear to agree on Drury and Briere so I will address the others. Now I am working off memory on some details so I apologize if I get something wrong.

Peca - Your right these thing do often get worked out. However, Peca clearly didn't want to work anything out. They offered him a contract at twice what he was making and probably exactly what he was worth. he chose not to except it and sit out. Sitting out is not how a team and player work things out

McKee - They offered him a contract at less than 4 million and he turned it down (I could be wrong on that I just seem to remember they offered him 2.5-3 or something like that)
Campbell - All I can say is we weren't making the playoffs with him and weren;t going to resign him after the year either. Campbell has said publicly he loves Buffalo and has no hard feelings towards the front office. This was not a case of a player leaving on bad terms it was business. Could we have had him for less, maybe. I think 5 for 25 was thrown around last summer. That would be great, but if we signed every 5 for 25 contract that people on message boards was us to sign (Briere/Drury/Griere) we would be over the cap and losing young talent that this team needs (Pominville/Roy/Vanek, etc).

Bottom line is for the bettermeant (is that a word?) of the oganization for the future sometimes the FO has to make business decisions that fans and players might not alway like. But they seem intent on keeping our own guys, Hetch signed long term, Roy - long term, Vanek - they match the offer. hopefully the trend continues and Poms and Miller are signed long term. If they are we look pretty good for the future. If Buffalo was such a bad place to play, Hetch would have bolted, so would have Roy, and Lydman, and Tallinder, etc etc instead of resigning long deals.

[ricogarion]

Don't trash Bucky for basically telling people what he hears from his sources.These sources must be anyone he has contact with including players.Anyone that has watched the team operate over the last year knows there are issues,only those in caves would not hear the warnings being echoed.

[MauvaisSang]

I forgot about that. Mar 28th, 2007 players poll from the hockey news. Unfortunately i can't find the actual article anymore, but i found the poll on a message board. Pretty bad. Basically two entire teams worth of players who would pick Buffalo the worst place to play :(

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%
8) New Jersey Devils and New York Rangers (9) 3.6%
9) Columbus Blue Jackets and Montreal Canadiens (8) 3.2%
10) Calgary Flames (7) 2.8%
11) Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings (6) 2.4%
12) Nashville Predators (5) 2%
13) Los Angeles Kings and Ottawa Senators (4) 1.6%
14) Philadelphia Flyers and Phoenix Coyotes (3) 1.2%
15) Atlanta Thrashers, Minnesota Wild, San Jose Sharks and Toronto Maple Leafs (2) 0.8%
16) Anaheim Ducks, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Stars and Tampa Bay Lightning (1) 0.4%


Maybe I'm wrong, I don't remember the particulars of the survey, but I always had the impression this was more a reflection on the city of Buffalo than the hockey franchise. Even the question is worded that way - "To what city (not team) would you least like to be traded?

[noocllez]

If I am not correct aren't the NE Patriots business practices also called into question by players throughout the NFL? Business is business, I would rather the Sabres be hardasses towards their bottom line, than be the Maple Leafs and sign any Tom, Dick and Harry who grew up in the greater Toronto Metropolitan area.

More Bucky-ganda

The Leaves are actually frowned on by fans, locals and Canadian Press because they Never draft players from the GTA.

[pigpen65]

Here's a new one

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/The-Deadbeat-Club-10-least-desirable-NHL-cities?urn=nhl,92689

[anEinherjer]

I forgot about that. Mar 28th, 2007 players poll from the hockey news. Unfortunately i can't find the actual article anymore, but i found the poll on a message board. Pretty bad. Basically two entire teams worth of players who would pick Buffalo the worst place to play :(

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%
8) New Jersey Devils and New York Rangers (9) 3.6%
9) Columbus Blue Jackets and Montreal Canadiens (8) 3.2%
10) Calgary Flames (7) 2.8%
11) Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings (6) 2.4%
12) Nashville Predators (5) 2%
13) Los Angeles Kings and Ottawa Senators (4) 1.6%
14) Philadelphia Flyers and Phoenix Coyotes (3) 1.2%
15) Atlanta Thrashers, Minnesota Wild, San Jose Sharks and Toronto Maple Leafs (2) 0.8%
16) Anaheim Ducks, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Stars and Tampa Bay Lightning (1) 0.4%

Wrong. "the worst place to play" is not what this poll was about.

And let's see, 30 teams x 20ish players = > 600 players in the NHL and 40 of them don't want to be traded to "the coldest place on earth"? Shocker. :rolleyes:

Why the **** do you think 15 and 16 are loaded up with nice warm friendly places, oh, and the biggest hockey markets in the US and Canada. Okay.

And now you offer us some dude's blog post "proving" something? By referencing Bucky who just links in to the rest of the circumstantial nonsense? Huh.

[bduff54]

Wrong. "the worst place to play" is not what this poll was about.

And let's see, 30 teams x 20ish players = > 600 players in the NHL and 40 of them don't want to be traded to "the coldest place on earth"? Shocker. :rolleyes:

Why the **** do you think 15 and 16 are loaded up with nice warm friendly places, oh, and the biggest hockey markets in the US and Canada. Okay.

And now you offer us some dude's blog post "proving" something? By referencing Bucky who just links in to the rest of the circumstantial nonsense? Huh.


it was a hockeynews article, not some blog. it's just about the city man, its just not a cool place for young dudes to go too. its not a knock on buffalo really, its just a fact

[anEinherjer]

Wake up daddy bduff, I'm talking about his latest crap from Yahoo, the Daddy Puck or whatever the **** it was.

And doubly wake the **** up, I'm not talking about whether or not Buffalo is a great place for "young dudes", I'm blasting a gigantic ****ing hole in the statement "players who would pick Buffalo the worst place to play" because that's NOT what the poll says.

[pigpen65]

Wrong. "the worst place to play" is not what this poll was about.

And let's see, 30 teams x 20ish players = > 600 players in the NHL and 40 of them don't want to be traded to "the coldest place on earth"? Shocker. :rolleyes:

well, no. It's actually much worse than that because all 600 of them weren't polled. I think it was 250. So if you expand the percentages for all the players, it's actually closer to 5 entire teams worth of players who would pick Buffalo the worst place to be traded too. That's pretty bad. The point of the thread is that Buffalo has a hard time recruiting. Subtract 5 entire teams' worth of players from the league who would not want to come here..... i can see it.

[bduff54]

Wake up daddy bduff, I'm talking about his latest crap from Yahoo, the Daddy Puck or whatever the **** it was.

And doubly wake the **** up, I'm not talking about whether or not Buffalo is a great place for "young dudes", I'm blasting a gigantic ****ing hole in the statement "players who would pick Buffalo the worst place to play" because that's NOT what the poll says.

you need to relax man, either way it is not a desireable location.

The reasons are very obvious.

[anEinherjer]

bduff, you just don't get it. You think you have Buffalo all figgered out but you end up looking clueless.

There is a ****ING GIGANTIC difference between "not wanting to go to Buffalo because it's old, slow, and no good for young'ns" and "Buffalo's organization sucks, who would want to go there?"

The former is just as valid when talking about MANY NHL cities. The latter, WAY THE HELL more relevant. Unfortunately, piggy's poll is talking about the former.

[bduff54]

bduff, you just don't get it. You think you have Buffalo all figgered out but you end up looking clueless.

There is a ****ING GIGANTIC difference between "not wanting to go to Buffalo because it's old, slow, and no good for young'ns" and "Buffalo's organization sucks, who would want to go there?"

The former is just as valid when talking about MANY NHL cities. The latter, WAY THE HELL more relevant. Unfortunately, piggy's poll is talking about the former.

well if you look at the poll i really think a lot of these guys were talking about the actual cities themselves aswell as the actual organization.

if they were talking about the organization honestly the leafs should be the place nobody would want to go to.

[rockydm92]

The Patriots win. The Sabres do not.

The Patriots continue to have Pro Bowler's. The Sabres do not.


i mean think about it! Who was the last big free agent we signed? Spacek on day 7 when nobody else wanted him. We have to trade cause nobody wants to sign here, who would?? we had to trade for briere and drury, and they bolted first chance they could, even mike grier saw this coming and bolted, we can't even hang on to our PK'ers

We all fantasize about how patient darcy is and he'll never overpay, thats because he doesn't even have the chance to overpay!!! we had to get rivet who hasn't even made a comment about coming here because even though we offered more money to jason smith he was going to take a discount and play for ottawa

[bduff54]

i mean think about it! Who was the last big free agent we signed? Spacek on day 7 when nobody else wanted him. We have to trade cause nobody wants to sign here, who would?? we had to trade for briere and drury, and they bolted first chance they could, even mike grier saw this coming and bolted, we can't even hang on to our PK'ers

We all fantasize about how patient darcy is and he'll never overpay, thats because he doesn't even have the chance to overpay!!! we had to get rivet who hasn't even made a comment about coming here because even though we offered more money to jason smith he was going to take a discount and play for ottawa

you might be right, i don't know.

if they start winning the perception will change.

its not like detroit is beautiful, everybody wants to play there.