Ryan Miller

[Proteus]

Ok so this is the next big decision looming over the head of this organization. There in contract negotiations now, but I have to admit I'm a little worried. My gut feeling says Miller isn't entirely committed to the Buffalo Sabres. I think he would sign in Detroit for less. I doubt he will be a Sabre next year.

First I would like to give my view of Miller. Miller is a very good, but not exceptional or even great. I would say he is on the lower 2nd teer of goalies in the NHL. Last year was a big let down and he has never really been dominate in the playoffs. That being said, hockey goalie is a very unique position is sports. Goalies usually hit there prime a little later then other players. So the best from Miller might be yet to come.

So what is a fair contract? I really don't think he should get anymore then Fleury. Six years, $33 million seams fair to me. Six years $36 million I think is the highest I would go. Even though both of those contracts seem like a bit of a risk, based on Miller's performance last year. I understand he played a ton of games but still, we needed more from him.

I think the Sabres are probably offering him a contract in the range of those two. I heard this clip http://wgr.everyzing.com/viewMedia.jsp?dedupe=1&res=281904456&index=1&col=en-all-pod_wgr-ep&e=20350205&il=en&num=10&s=PZSID_0001268190;The+Howard+from WGR and it made me think. So what if Miller is looking for 7 years $49 million. Maybe his line of thinking is, I'll hold out for $49 million and if the Sabres pay it great. If they don't, I'll just go back home to Michigan where Detroit will pay me at least $6 million per. If that's the case Miller will be gone because the Sabres won't pay it and he quite frankly isn't worth it.

If the Sabres are put in a position where the have to pay Miller $7 million per, they we have to trade him. I would even start exploring trades right now to maximize our return. I hope Miller stays but I have a bad feeling about this and there is a limit to what we should pay him.

One more thing, Howard Simon. I know a lot of you hate this guy. I do remember reading his articles as a teenager. I just moved back to Blo after a 6 years of being away so I haven't had much of an opinion. It just seems to me like this guy is really miserable. A real downer and probably not much fun to hang with. He is extremely cynical and I can see why people don't like him. Also what he said about UFC is completely ridiculous. Those fighters are highly skilled and best trained athletes in the world. It would take a truly ignorant person to say the things he said he said about MMA. That Griffin/Jackson fight was amazing and of the quality you don't see in boxing anymore.

[mike35]

This is the way I look at the Miller situation.

Miller is not currently a top 5 goaltender in the league. Will he ever be? Nobody really knows. Most people would argue that he's a top ten 'tender. To say that hes been weak in the playoffs would be a little ignorant. Anyone remember the Rags series where Lundquist was UNBELIEVABLE? Miller was right there with him the whole way. What about the Carolina ECF the year before when our entire defense went down but Miller held the fort for an entire 7 game series.

Lets face it, last year was a learning expierence. He had crap for D in front of him with a team that played a wide open style in a league that clamped down around them. (Cough* hate the trap*Cough) The guy played a retarted amount of games and suffered by evidence of his low weight at the end of the year.

With all that said, I think there are better goalies out there but, Miller is OUR guy. I think he enjoys playing in Buffalo and wants to bring a cup here. I know Miller is def. looking for some defensive help, which hopefully Rivet will bring to the table. Theres obviously some guys in the pipeline that will be good down the road in the Blue and Gold that hopefully brings some grit on the backend (Brennan, Butler, Weber). Nobody knows if Lamlime will be an upgrade over Thibault but I for one think he will do a pretty good job.

Make him feel wanted. Offer him 6 for 36 but id be willing to go 6 for 39-40.


If he isn't signed by the start of the season, our chances to lock him up will greatly decrease.

[3LH]

I honestly don't think the dollars per year is going to be the big issue in the Miller negotiations. It will be the length that Miller is probably looking for. Frankly, I would be ok if Miller got exactly the same contract as Fleury (7yrs / 35M). It would be a compromise between dollars per year and overall length. He'd be about 35 at the end of the deal. 35 is not old for a top 10 goalie. Goalies with top 10 skill can have long successful careers.

If he won't compromise on dollars for a longer term deal, give him the bigger money over 3 or 4 years and then let him finish his career at home.

[Blofan4life]

If you are looking at Miller's stats, you will see Miller isn't even worth 3 million. Miller had a lot of luck in 06-07 when we had a offense that could put up 4 goals a game every game. Miller lets in way to many goals for my liking and if we lost him, I wouldn't be too surprised or mad. Why pay all that money for a goalie that will let in 3 goals a game. Lalime could probably stay under three goals and he only makes 1 million. I think Pominville is a bigger necessity with his leadership and point production he brings. Pominville is a one of a kind player that I just wouldn't want to give up. There are plenty of Millers out there.

[nehemiah]

This is the way I look at the Miller situation.

Miller is not currently a top 5 goaltender in the league. Will he ever be? Nobody really knows. Most people would argue that he's a top ten 'tender. To say that hes been weak in the playoffs would be a little ignorant. Anyone remember the Rags series where Lundquist was UNBELIEVABLE? Miller was right there with him the whole way. What about the Carolina ECF the year before when our entire defense went down but Miller held the fort for an entire 7 game series.

Lets face it, last year was a learning expierence. He had crap for D in front of him with a team that played a wide open style in a league that clamped down around them. (Cough* hate the trap*Cough) The guy played a retarted amount of games and suffered by evidence of his low weight at the end of the year.

With all that said, I think there are better goalies out there but, Miller is OUR guy. I think he enjoys playing in Buffalo and wants to bring a cup here. I know Miller is def. looking for some defensive help, which hopefully Rivet will bring to the table. Theres obviously some guys in the pipeline that will be good down the road in the Blue and Gold that hopefully brings some grit on the backend (Brennan, Butler, Weber). Nobody knows if Lamlime will be an upgrade over Thibault but I for one think he will do a pretty good job.

Make him feel wanted. Offer him 6 for 36 but id be willing to go 6 for 39-40.


If he isn't signed by the start of the season, our chances to lock him up will greatly decrease.excellent post.

[nehemiah]

miller plays better in the playoffs.

**** the stats. you can see him raise him game in the playoffs. that's what really counts for a goalie.

lock him up! pay the man, darcy!

plus: sukie is always 100% wrong and sukie HATES ryan miller. do the math.

[HockeyFanatic13]

I believe ryan miller to be a top 10 goalie. But is he worth signing for 5+ mil a year? I dont think so. I think Hes a great goalie But i also know that were a small market like the rest of you. So this is gonna be one of them Briere/Drury even campbell type of thing were we will either offer 4 mil a year or give him his 6 mil for 3 or less years And then we will sit back and watch Miller reject and reject. I HOPE DARCY DOES THE RIGHT THINK AND OFFERES HIM 6+ YEARS AT 5+ MIL

[RustySabre]

Help me out here. So, As you put it "Miller is a very good, but not exceptional or even great. I would say he is on the lower 2nd teer of goalies in the NHL. Last year was a big let down and he has never really been dominate in the playoffs." Why then would Detroit, or any other team for that matter, bend over for him?

[Proteus]

Help me out here. So, As you put it "Miller is a very good, but not exceptional or even great. I would say he is on the lower 2nd teer of goalies in the NHL. Last year was a big let down and he has never really been dominate in the playoffs." Why then would Detroit, or any other team for that matter, bend over for him?

Well, he is still a top 10-15 goalie in the league. Detroit is the type of team that can afford to pay him top 5 money because they can spend to the cap every year. For a team like the Sabres that would not make sense, seeing as they have to squeeze all they can out of every penny they spend. Detroit is also a rare team that doesn't need exceptional goaltending to win it all. They are so deep and the defense is so good, that all they really need is a top 15. Furthermore as I referenced in my original post, Miller is from Michigan and might go to Detroit for the same 5-5.5 million the Sabres may offer him.

By your response I assume you think Miller is an elite goalie, worthy of one of the largest contracts amongst his peers. I think I have adequately answered your question, why don't you tell me why you disagree with anything I have said. I look forward to what you have to say.

[Iggy72]

Elite goalies by definition mean there are 5 or less of them in the league. Miller isn't elite, though there's every chance he can be.
The point is that there aren't that many elite goaltenders out there, while Miller is still pretty good. He has playoff experience and he went through a learning experience, as mike35 pointed out (hell, I think the whole organization did, even LQ...maybe...).
I always go by that old definition:
"Good goalies make the saves they should make. Great goalies make the saves they shouldn't make."
When Ryan had Marty as a competent back-up, he was making a lot of those types of saves (e.g., the 3 on 0 vs. Boston, the Hasek imitation vs. Satan in the playoffs). He obviously didn't look sharp because Thibault lost Ruff's confidence (though I hope Lindy does play his back up more...even when we had Marty, I thought Marty should have played in more games).
So, for the record, I think Miller should get Fleury-esque or Lundqvist-esque numbers. Yes, it may be a gamble, but at the same time being cheap with him and relying on Enroth(!) can only make the Sabres' FO lose even more credibility, something I didn't think was possible.

Pax.
Iggy72

[RustySabre]

Well, he is still a top 10-15 goalie in the league. Detroit is the type of team that can afford to pay him top 5 money because they can spend to the cap every year. For a team like the Sabres that would not make sense, seeing as they have to squeeze all they can out of every penny they spend. Detroit is also a rare team that doesn't need exceptional goaltending to win it all. They are so deep and the defense is so good, that all they really need is a top 15. Furthermore as I referenced in my original post, Miller is from Michigan and might go to Detroit for the same 5-5.5 million the Sabres may offer him.

By your response I assume you think Miller is an elite goalie, worthy of one of the largest contracts amongst his peers. I think I have adequately answered your question, why don't you tell me why you disagree with anything I have said. I look forward to what you have to say.

I just don't see why Detroit would want what they already have. Ozzy is good enough for them so they wouldn't need to overpay Miller. If Buffalo had any other option in goal they would have have made that move already. I don'r care what he's worth compared to other goaltenders, I care what he's worth to Buffalo. Based on the alternatives I think he"s worth quite a bit.

[stevesy]

If Buffalo had any other option in goal they would have have made that move already. I don'r care what he's worth compared to other goaltenders, I care what he's worth to Buffalo. Based on the alternatives I think he"s worth quite a bit.

This is a very good point. You don't only compare goalies in stats to decide what to pay them, you assess their worth as a whole not only to your team, but to the rest of the league. You could make a case that Fleury took what could be considered a hometown discount because he is probably in a way replaceable and the Pens are a legit contender for the forseeable future. Yes he played well last year and in the playoffs, but Conklin stepped in when he was out and played just as well. The Pens not only play solid D, but they have enough consistent goal scoring from all angles to not need an ace in net.

The Rangers on the other hand gave Lundqvist a big payday because of what he was worth to the team. He's an ace, and he was the reason they were competitive in the playoffs and even made it there. They won a lot of games simply because of him that year.

In my opinion Miller falls somewhere in between these two. He can be the ace we need at times, and yet there are games when he doesn't even need to be sharp because our offense has those nights when they can score at will. But ever since free agency took away our most clutch goal scorers, they've been sadly inconsistent on the offensive front and Miller has not been able to step up to win games when the boys only put up 2-3 goals. Miller lets in softies, but you can't deny that when he is focused and it's playoff time, he is up there with the best in the game. And to me that makes him worth the big payday. Somewhere in the mid $5-6 mil range long term.

[3LH]

I just don't see why Detroit would want what they already have. Ozzy is good enough for them so they wouldn't need to overpay Miller.

True. Osgood is signed in Detroit for the next three seasons. At that time, he will be 38 and Detroit will be looking for his replacement. Miller and his agent know that.

Stuff like that makes me think I wouldn't be at all surprised if Miller only signed for a few years with the Sabres for somewhere around 6.5M per year. Buffalo might not be opposed to that kind of a deal either since they generally don't seem to care for the long 6 -7 year deals and because the "where does Enroth fit in?" question has to be a part of the Sabres' thought process.

[The Grin]

I've was thinking of all the goalies the franchise has had...Edwards, Sauve, Barasso, Puppa, Hasek, Fuhr, and so on. Not one of them played their entire career in Buffalo. Miller will probably sign a new contract which is just long enough for the Sabres to develop Enroth.

[gebobs]

If you are looking at Miller's stats, you will see Miller isn't even worth 3 million. Miller had a lot of luck in 06-07 when we had a offense that could put up 4 goals a game every game. Miller lets in way to many goals for my liking and if we lost him, I wouldn't be too surprised or mad. Why pay all that money for a goalie that will let in 3 goals a game. Lalime could probably stay under three goals and he only makes 1 million. I think Pominville is a bigger necessity with his leadership and point production he brings. Pominville is a one of a kind player that I just wouldn't want to give up. There are plenty of Millers out there.

Let's look at how he did in shootouts. Two seasons ago, he was nearly flawless. Last season, he screwed the pooch. I hope he can get back on form in that regard.

[SCBILLFAN1]

He played in 60 plus games and that is too much physically for a goalie. Yes Brodeur does it but he is a rare commodity.
If we had a decent backup goalie last year we would have made the playoffs.
Heck for one stretch Miller carried the team.
He is a top 10 goalie and should be paid accordingly.

[stafford669]

i with everyone else here we cannot afford to screw this up give miller 6 years and 6 million.Give pomminville 5.75 the first year and 5 the rest of his contract pay him for 7 years.Do you guys wanna win a cup in the next 3 years the sabres have the talent to do it with a few adjustments.

[RustySabre]

Let's look at how he did in shootouts. Two seasons ago, he was nearly flawless. Last season, he screwed the pooch. I hope he can get back on form in that regard.

Maybe a decent defense and more goal production and there wouldn't be a need for the shootouts.

[3LH]

Maybe a decent defense and more goal production and there wouldn't be a need for the shootouts.

lol...yeah but the shootouts are going to happen. I think the Sabres were actually the last team in the NHL to have a shootout last season....but then they came in bunches for a stretch.

[gebobs]

Maybe a decent defense and more goal production and there wouldn't be a need for the shootouts.

Not to mention there are no shootouts in the playoffs. The Sabs feasted on them in '06-'07 like no other team. I figured out what their standing would have been with prior NHL point systems. With just OT and no shootouts, they would have finished something like third or fourth in the league and before OT, just ties, they would have finished even lower.

[RustySabre]

They need to sign him as of right now because ther is no Plan B. There is no one waiting in the wings that's any better. When other teams come in here who do you think they worry about the most? Roy? Max? Peters? I have to believe Miller is the only one that gives them any heartburn at all.