[OT] Advice Needed -- Sensitive Topic

[Stealth01]

My daughter (12-years-old) came home and told me that a friend of hers confessed that her cousin raped her when she was in second grade. My daughter is the ONLY one who knows, according to the girl. My kid is confused. Feels like she should tell someone, but doesn't want to betray the girl's confidence.

What do all of you think? Tell or don't tell? I know my opinion. I just don't want to push it on her. Especially if it's wrong.

I'll check in the a.m. to see what folks think.

[BigDoug]

Ouch! I think now that adults (you & your wife) have knowlege, you should have a word with the girl's parents & let them deal with it as they see fit.

[FrankieA]

I usaully leave some goofy posts on the website but I'm going to be as serious as I can be with you Stealth. I think that it is very difficult for a 12 year old to tell this to a parent or any another adult on such a subject, she showed a lot of courage, you should be very proud.

I'll be honest with you I am not a father, but I think man to man, this something that should be told to local authorities, I would say to her that telling the police would be the best thing for her friend so it doesn't happen again or another unsuspecting victim. Whatever you choose may it be the best. Good Luck.

Whatever you do, make sure it's all true first, or at least approach it as if it may not be. You never know w/ kids, they often don't quite understand what certain things mean. The last thing you want to do is to do anything while operating under false assumptions. They may say one thing that they think is accurate while not realizing that it isn't. Also, sounds like she's old enough to be reaching out for attention. Get a pulse on what her current family life is like prior to making a move. Ie., is she neglected by her folks? Is she in a single-parent home in which mom or dad has precious little time with her. It could simply be an effort on her part to try and get someone to give her the time of day. Kids need attention and when they don't get it, they resort to often desperate things not realizing the implications.

Other than that, good luck with it. Sounds like a tough one.

Also, sounds like a good time for you to talk to your daughter about others entrusting her with pertinent information that really should be mentioned to someone else. Think about the implications if this friend is simply making all this up; the havoc it's wreaking w/ your daughter. Even if it's true, it's not for your daughter to be entrusted with and for having her deal with the burden of it through her friendship w/ this girl. Perhaps you should instruct your daughter to let this girl know that if she has absolutely no intention of following-up on this news, then perhaps she'd better not tell her anymore. I'm just trying to think what I would do. But carrying someone else's emotional baggage can be traumatizing for a 12-year old. Carrying such a large weight isn't healthy for a 12-year old girl. Especially yours! It sounds like this is for professionals, not 12-year old peers, eh. Perhaps that should be the recommendation of your daughter to her. Either way, if true, she needs some counseling, very serious counseling or she may very well be much more screwed up than she's gonna be in the future.

See if there's a good christian church in your area that has counseling for such things.

tell...tell...tell...

I'd go to the parents and let them do what they think is best.

there's nothing worse than taking a child's innosence.

If true, I'd be somewhat surprised if the parents don't suspect something by now. You never do know however.

I am only saying to find out first b/c of the number of times that I or friends of mine have been duped in the past simply by people, usually girls/women who are looking for unhealthy attention for one reason or another. I've made a complete ass of myself on at least two occasions by trying to "be the hero" when in fact I was being played like a fiddle. Back when I was young and foolish of course... :D

I knew of one girl who was 7 or 8 who once told some people in a circle that go to me somehow that she was raped. When questioned further, she admitted that she thought that the kiss on the cheek that she had been given spontaneously as often kids do, was considered "rape." Obviously it wasn't. She nevertheless thought that it was, probably based on someone's lacksadaisical definition of what rape is. So definitely be skeptical. It can be awkward and even bring up legal issues in this day and age if you are not prudent.

[Pipes]

I'm only 21 and this is my 1st message on this board.... and this is quite an appropriate thread to start with.. you have to do something about that! .. Make sure the story is legit.. This is a awful hard thing to discuss but one that HAS TO BE discussed.. Make sure u talk to the people involved.. Good luck.. hope there is a happy ending..

[TacklingDummyRJ]

Originally posted by wyswings
Whatever you do, make sure it's all true first, or at least approach it as if it may not be. You never know w/ kids, they often don't quite understand what certain things mean. The last thing you want to do is to do anything while operating under false assumptions.


I agree.

I live my the motto of not sticking my nose where it don't belong. Unless there is solid proof.

[BigDoug]

If it involves child sexual abuse, I think the parents need to know, regardless. If it's true or false, they can choose to deal with the situation as they see fit. Having a daughter in grade 2 myself, I would feel horrible if I had knowlege like this & chose not to do anything.

Yes, it will be awkward to tell the parents. Yes, it may blow up this friendship for your daughter. Once you're done telling the parents, I'll guarantee you will feel a lot better, having transferred a very adult problem from 2 children (your daughter & her friend) to the adults in the best position to deal with the situation. The key is we're dealing with children here.

Yeah, I'd feel terrible if it happened again and I hadn't said something.

[BlackRockBills]

Chris,

It isn't easy for you to ascertain the truth of the girl's story. Arguably, determining veracity isn't your responsibility. You are the parent of the girl's friend and confidant. As such, your responsibility is to make sure the information you have received - be it true or false - is directed to people in a position to respond to it, i.e. the girl's parents.

If you keep the information to yourself, you may be ignoring a legitimate cry for help. If this girl was raped - and I know I don't need to tell you it's a miserable world sometimes - she will need counseling and the possibility of legal recourse. Sexual abuse is not an easy thing to voice. As an adult - maybe the only adult that knows - it's important that you respond.

If the girl turns out to be lying - which is a distinct possibility, given that we are talking about children - you have still done the right thing by reacting as if she had, in fact, been raped. Chris, for her sake, I hope your daughter's friend is indeed simply "crying out for attention." If that's the case, then her parents STILL need to know what she's telling her friends, because her stories would then become evidence of some deep-seated feelings of neglect or confusion, something that needs attention, love and time.

But if she's telling the truth - and I hope to god she isn't - her parents need to know.

Good luck, Stealth my man. I hope to God things work out for the best for your daughter's friend.


As a side note to the whole BBI community - I just want to say how impressed I am with the intelligence and compassion of my fellow posters. We've talked about issues here that don't concern X's and O's a couple of times in my four months here, and I've always been moved by the serious level of the dialogue I find here. You guys are something else. I'm glad to be a part of this crew. All best.

excellent advice blackrock!

[SME]

BlackRock & Northern are right.

Ideally, you want to still keep the trust(s) (between you & your daughter, and between your daughter & her friend) intact ... to encourage future communications, not damage the trust and stifle future communications. Maybe that can be done by encouraging/suggesting options to your daughter to relay to her friend to get some help. That way the friendship and trust is respected and preserved (possibly strengthened). It also prevents problems if it's not true.

You (and your daughter?, etc.) may want to consider the consequences of each of these options...

Is it true? You tell? Possible Options
----------- ----------- ---------------------
Yes Yes
Yes No somone else (daughter's friend, etc.) tells
No Yes
No No

I hope everything works out for the best!
Good luck!

[SME]

Sorry for the poor formatting, but I think you can get my idea.

[Bufsabresnu]

All good advice.. The parents of the child need to be informed, regardless of it is true or not, they need to know. If it were my daughter I would want to know.

[Player6600]

Originally posted by Stealth01
My daughter (12-years-old) came home and told me that a friend of hers confessed that her cousin raped her when she was in second grade. My daughter is the ONLY one who knows, according to the girl. My kid is confused. Feels like she should tell someone, but doesn't want to betray the girl's confidence.

What do all of you think? Tell or don't tell? I know my opinion. I just don't want to push it on her. Especially if it's wrong.

I'll check in the a.m. to see what folks think.

For sure tell. Immediately call the cops beat the living crap out of this guy and make sure he never hurts anybody else. This is also in her best interest she told someone ask a cry for help and even if it wasn't then you should do it anyway because it's the right thing.

[Player6600]

Stelath-Don't question the girl. 98% of the time the girl is telling the truth and she shouldn't feel as if she should defend herself especially because she is only 12. You must go to the police immediately she will be examined and questioned contact her parents. Also there is a creep running who could easily rape your daughter if not someone else's.

[Stealth01]

All good advice indeed, and I thank all of you for it.

First of all, I can assure you I am VERY proud of Sarah for coming to Jen and I with this information. She feels like the weight of the world was dropped on her shoulders yesterday--seomthing no 12-year-old should have to feel--but she also understands that she's not alone in this. She knows her friend needs help and is crying out. She just doesn't want to lose her friend for betraying her trust in getting that help.

I spoke at length with her this morning. Here's what she said:

1. The event happened to her friend when she was in second grade. It was an "out of town cousin" who allegedly did it. Sarah didn't know the cousin's age, a factor that is obviously important.

2. The "rape" appears more likely to have been molestation. He "touched" her in places she didn't want to be touched. Not less bad than rape, but different.

3. The girl has told Sarah and one other person (a second grade told right after it happened). Not her parents. She was afraid her cousin would be sent to jail and executed. I explained why he wouldn't be killed, so that might help the girl get some help.

4. It was difficult for the girl to tell Sarah. Originally, she just mentioned that she'd told a boy a secret no one else knew. It took Sarah 5 times asking to drag it out of the girl, but she kept pressing. She said she had a feeling it was something bad, so she kept pressing. Said the girl looked ready to cry when she told her, so I think the veracity is pretty good. Sarah has known her all year, and says she's an honest kid who wouldn't likely lie.

Here's what I told Sarah:

-- First and foremost, we HAVE to do something. True or not, we can't just sit on the info. She agreed, regrettably.

-- Sarah should go to school today and talk to her friend again. Tell her that she's willing to help her in any way possible. Tell her it's not her fault. And encourage her to go tell someone who can help. It was a cry for help that she told Sarah this information. She WANTs help, even if she doesn't recognize that yet. Told her to recommend school counselor, chaplain, doctor, teacher, and most of all, her parents. Also told her to promise to go with her and hold her hand while she tells, if that will help.

-- Also told her to get some details if she can do so without upsetting her friend. Age of the cousin being most important. His location as well. I specifically told her NOT to ask details about what the cousin did. She's not a counselor.

-- I got her to agree that if her friend won't go get help in the next couple of days, we HAVE to tell someone. Maybe her parents. Maybe the school counselor. I am going to a few experts for advice this morning.

-- She was very worried that her friend will be upset. I said, "Well, you can worry that she'll be mad at you, or you can worry that she'll be raped again. You can worry that she'll be mad, or you can worry that her cousin will do this to someone else. She might be mad at you now, but in 10 years, she will probably thank you." She didn't like that, but she knew it was true.

Thanks to everyone for their advice and support. Sarah's a great kid who accepted this responsibility. She's upset about it, but she is mature enough to know that her friend needs help, and caring enough to want to give it.

I just wish she didn't have to be exposed to it at this age. Twelve, and she's saving the world.

[Jaded 7]

I just finished reading this thread. How very sad. :( There's nothing I would like to say or add. The advice given by everyone was great, especially the advice given by BlackRock and Northern! :) Very insightful for two men! I'm impressed with the caring, compassion and concern expressed here. :) And it looks as though you have things under control today, Chris. Best of luck to you, your daughter and her friend. The emotional scars from keeping something to yourself can be deep and extremely damaging not only to the individual but to those they let into their life. I hope things work out for this girl. My prayers are with her.

[Stealth01]

Originally posted by Jaded 7
I just finished reading this thread. How very sad. :( There's nothing I would like to say or add. The advice given by everyone was great, especially the advice given by BlackRock and Northern! :) Very insightful for two men! I'm impressed with the caring, compassion and concern expressed here. :) And it looks as though you have things under control today, Chris. Best of luck to you, your daughter and her friend. The emotional scars from keeping something to yourself can be deep and extremely damaging not only to the individual but to those they let into their life. I hope things work out for this girl. My prayers are with her.

Yep. That's how it all came up. They were talking about boys, and this came up. Obviously, the girl will have serious relationship issues, not to mention self-esteem, fear, etc.

I just spoke with a chaplain, and he says we're headed in the right direction, so I have hope it will work out. One more expert to talk to, though.

I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

[TedMock]

you're doing the right thing by getting it out. I wish more people would come forward and expose these scumbags.

[Jaded 7]

Originally posted by Stealth01 Obviously, the girl will have serious relationship issues, not to mention self-esteem, fear, etc.
Exactly! That's the point I was trying to make on the thread in the Asylum. Words can and do hurt. When we say something cruel or hurtful to someone we really have no idea where they came from or what they may be going through. We have to choose our words carefully. Instead of taking a shot at someone because it's easy, be the person who puts a smile on their face and a warmth in their heart. A kind word from someone can help to do a world of good and help with the healing process. Just something to think about the next time the urge to slam someone surfaces. Say something to make them smile and feel good about themselves not cry. :)

[Stealth01]

We're talking sexual abuse here, Jaded. Not making fun of people.

[standingbuffalo43]

stealth...
you did the right thing in handling it in the manner you did...As a Middle school teacher, I see 11-15 year olds(& their behaviors) on a daily basis...wys was right on in his advice to establish the credibility & liklihood of the truth...Unlike Player6600's advice to take matters into your own hands and beat the guy down, which would result in YOU going to jail & the loss of your daughters trust and the resultant trauma & embarrassment to her as well as the repurcussions from the girl in question towards your daughter...btw I dont know where player gets his numbers or if he makes them up, but 98% of girls do NOT tell the truth on such matters...I am not an "expert" in the field... but I have much more experience dealing with problems such as these. I have a masters in counseling and have dealt with similar situations at least 15-20X this school year alone...of those 20 odd cases, in at least a dozen the girl was lying for any one of a number of reasons...the worst was, "that boy said he didnt want to go out with me...boo hoo hoo" ...girls are not the innocent little victims that weve been led to believe...that being said, they are still victims in the vast majority of the type of assaults that youve described...and as such need to have every benefit afforded to them...
make sure you explain exactly what you are doing & why to your daughter before doing it so she understands why you've chosen to take the actions you are...
find out about the parents of your daughters friend...are they stable? are they part of the problem? Often times molestations occur w/in the family because members of the family permit it or enable it because of their own dysfunction...going directly to dysfunctional, enabling parents with possible foundless accusations is a recipe for disaster...the result that most often occurs is a beating for the accusing child & thats NOT what you want to accomplish, is it?
Ive seen parents react the way player6600 suggests and they do much more harm than good...I ve seen students get beat to a pulp because somebody else's parent thought they were doing the right thing...schedule a private meeting with a principal or counselor at the school and proceed according to their direction... they are more equipt to persue this matter with the authorities... If you are not satisfied with the schools handling of the matter, THEN consider other options...

you should definitely tell someone better prepared to do something substantive, than to do nothing...youve already taken the first step, by talking honestly and openly with your child...

best of luck...
sb43

[Jaded 7]

Originally posted by Stealth01 We're talking sexual abuse here, Jaded. Not making fun of people.
I know we're talking about sexual abuse, Chris. But, as you've stated and I quoted you on, it will and does lead to other issues. And when you make fun of someone you are adding to their self esteem issues and problems.

[TigerJ]

Tough issue. I agree with most everything that has been said. If your daughter can follow through with everything, she is very strong and mature indeed. I would follow through with this and ask your daughter how it went. It may be that her friend will still not be able to tell the school counselor even with your daughter's moral support. If that proves to be the case, I would take what information your daughter has been able to obtain to the school counselor myself. He/ she is a trained professional who should be able to handle things in an appropriate manner.

This issue must be dealt with. It is not just for the benefit of your daughter's friend. You have to assume the cousin who allegedly did this has or will do it again. There will be more victims if someone does not intervene.

[Stealth01]

sb43:

The chaplain I talked to said that since she's talking about an incident 4 years ago, it is unlikely she's lying, especially give that Sarah had to drag it out of her. That, plus Sarah's assessment that this girl is honest and not lying, tells me SOMETHING happened. What, exactly, is for the professionals to figure out, but I think her credibility is pretty high in this case. She probably doesn't remember things exactly as they happened, but SOMETHING happened, IMHO.

And I have to admit, the whole thing makes me angry and makes Player's option seem enticing. Fortunately, I've seen that apporach do damage.

And to top things off, I got to watch my neighbor, a firefighter and USAF NCO, come nearly to blows with his teenage step son yesterday. He's a huge guy and the booy (probably 15) is s pole. Dad had his fist back, ready to punch, when mom stopped him.

Just an all around yucky day.

[Stealth01]

Originally posted by Jaded 7

I know we're talking about sexual abuse, Chris. But, as you've stated and I quoted you on, it will and does lead to other issues. And when you make fun of someone you are adding to their self esteem issues and problems.

Of course, Jaded, and even I'm not cruel enough to make fun of a girl in this situation. There's a chasm of difference between this and the dancing fat woman, though, and to compare the two is faulty logic at its finest.

Originally posted by TigerJ

If that proves to be the case, I would take what information your daughter has been able to obtain to the school counselor myself. He/ she is a trained professional who should be able to handle things in an appropriate manner.

Yeah, Sarah's a tough kid. Her mom abandoned her when we divorced, and she's maintained her superb grades, great morals, and good heart. She's weatherd storms before, and she'll weather this one. We're sending her flowers at school just to brighten her day a little and let her know we're behind her.

We're following up this afternoon. If she can't get the girl to tell her parents or someone else, we'll probably call her parents and have them come to our house so we can tell them face-to-face. That's how I would want it if it were Sarah who'd been assaulted. I think we may have our family counselor there to help out, just in case. Can't hurt.

[Player6600]

Originally posted by standingbuffalo43
stealth...
you did the right thing in handling it in the manner you did...As a Middle school teacher, I see 11-15 year olds(& their behaviors) on a daily basis...wys was right on in his advice to establish the credibility & liklihood of the truth...Unlike Player6600's advice to take matters into your own hands and beat the guy down, which would result in YOU going to jail & the loss of your daughters trust and the resultant trauma & embarrassment to her as well as the repurcussions from the girl in question towards your daughter...btw I dont know where player gets his numbers or if he makes them up, but 98% of girls do NOT tell the truth on such matters...I am not an "expert" in the field... but I have much more experience dealing with problems such as these. I have a masters in counseling and have dealt with similar situations at least 15-20X this school year alone...of those 20 odd cases, in at least a dozen the girl was lying for any one of a number of reasons...the worst was, "that boy said he didnt want to go out with me...boo hoo hoo" ...girls are not the innocent little victims that weve been led to believe...that being said, they are still victims in the vast majority of the type of assaults that youve described...and as such need to have every benefit afforded to them...
make sure you explain exactly what you are doing & why to your daughter before doing it so she understands why you've chosen to take the actions you are...
find out about the parents of your daughters friend...are they stable? are they part of the problem? Often times molestations occur w/in the family because members of the family permit it or enable it because of their own dysfunction...going directly to dysfunctional, enabling parents with possible foundless accusations is a recipe for disaster...the most result that most often occurs is a beating for the accusing child & thats NOT what you want to accomplish, is it?
Ive seen parents react the way player6600 suggests and they do much more harm than good...I ve seen students get beat to a pulp because somebody else's parent thought they were doing the right thing...schedule a private meeting with a principal or counselor at the school and proceed according to their direction... they are more equipt to persue this matter with the authorities... If you are not satisfied with the schools handling of the matter, THEN consider other options...

you should definitely tell someone better prepared to do something substantive, than to do nothing...youve already taken the first step, by talking honestly and openly with your child...

best of luck...
sb43

SB-I was joking about going down and beating him up (although i wouldn't be opposed to that) action must be taken.

I have done extensive research in the field of sexual abuse and much to the surprise of many only 2% are false claims. Now that number looks small, but that is the reason why these criminals aren't convicted as often or don't have longer jail terms because of this. Think about it for every 1000 complaints 20 are false which is a lot. Your responsibilty as a person is for the safety and well-being of the victim. You have a responsibilty to the community to report this to the police and/or family.

You must also remember that in sexual abuse cases unless you are of an authoratative figure (police and prosecution) has a right to question the girl if these are false or not. The girl should not have to prove herself to friends and family.

[Jaded 7]

Originally posted by Stealth01 Of course, Jaded, and even I'm not cruel enough to make fun of a girl in this situation. There's a chasm of difference between this and the dancing fat woman, though, and to compare the two is faulty logic at its finest.
That's good to know, Chris. I just hope in 10 years she doesn't become overweight and give you or anyone else a reason to make fun of her.

[Player6600]

Originally posted by Stealth01

Yeah, Sarah's a tough kid. Her mom abandoned her when we divorced, and she's maintained her superb grades, great morals, and good heart. She's weatherd storms before, and she'll weather this one. We're sending her flowers at school just to brighten her day a little and let her know we're behind her.

We're following up this afternoon. If she can't get the girl to tell her parents or someone else, we'll probably call her parents and have them come to our house so we can tell them face-to-face. That's how I would want it if it were Sarah who'd been assaulted. I think we may have our family counselor there to help out, just in case. Can't hurt.

You're doing a good job supporting her keep up the good work.

[Stealth01]

Whatever, Jaded. Try not to let your bleeding heart drip on the keyboard, OK?

[Stealth01]

Thanks, Player, but Sarah's the one doing the good work. I'm just being a dad.

I think I'll take her to a movie on Memorial Day. Go see Star Wars or something.

[standingbuffalo43]

SB-I was joking about going down and beating him up ~player6600...


thank goodness...



I have done extensive research in the field of sexual abuse and much to the surprise of many only 2% are false claims ~player6600

I would be very interested in seeing this information...as stated I deal directly with these situations, I have 2 very close personal friends that work for rape crises/child abuse centers and Ive never heard stats like that...what field of study are you in????




The girl should not have to prove herself to friends and family

I never suggested that she should, quite the contrary, to avoid that I suggested that stealth make an appointment with the school counselors/principal, etc. to determine the validity of such serious accusations and how they as responsible caring and concerned adults can help...they are qualified to approach such subjects...

stealth seems to have a healthy grip on the situation...props to him...




once again, good luck stealth...


sb43

[Stealth01]

Statistics are a tough breed of animal to interpret. In researching this, I have found stats that say 2 of every 3 girls are sexually abused by age 18, and other stats that say only 25% are abused. Which is right? Variables make a huge difference, too.

The bottom line, I think, is that the girl appears to be honest, and my daughter believes she's being honest. I trust Sarah's opinion almost implicitly, so I have no reason to believe the girl is being deceptive.

Jen just called me. She sent Sarah the flowers with a card that says, "Sometimes the hardest thing to do is the right thing."

Perfectly put.

[SME]

You & your family are doin' fine, Stealth Daddy-O!
My prayers are w/ Sarah's friend, Sarah, and everyone else involved!

And all the sincere feedback from everyone was quite impressive, too! Good job, people!
:patriot:
"... not plane, nor bird, nor even fly ... it's just little ole us ... BBI!"

[BogusTrumper]

Player66 is right. It's not up to you to determine if this happened or not. Call the police. Just call the police. Please. They have a lot more experience in this than either you or the girl's parents.

My niece was molested when she was at a sleepover at her girlfriend's house. More than touching but not quite rape. She told my sister right away but my sister debated whether or not she should call the police for maybe 8 months because she suspected that it would set into motion a series of events that were not too pleasant. And it did. Eventually a police officer showed up at her door and made the decision easy for her. The cop told her that he understood that she might have some information for him. The guy had molested four other girls although what he had done to my niece was by far the worst and she was to be their star witness. One of the girls told her father who called the police. The thing is, you can't count on the girl's parents to do what needs to be done. My niece kept asking my sister all the time in that 8 months what my sister was going to do about it. She knew the guy had done something bad and didn't know why he wouldn't be punished for it. But my sister didn't want to be the one to put my niece through what she knew my niece was going to have to go through. My sister was not angry at the man who finally contacted the police. It was a relief.

Still, things turned out basically the way my sister though they would. It was hell for her, for her daughter, for the whole family. Once the man was charged, everyone in town knew about it. There was a lot of talk -- a lot of people questioning her daughter's integrity; a lot of people questioning her parenting skills. People took sides. My sister and my niece ran into this man while just doing their normal activities and had to deal with that. They testified in many a court hearing. The defense atorney did everything he could to discredit my niece as he should have. But they didn't have to testify in a trial. The guy plead out and got 4 years.

My niece sleeps a lot better at night. She has the satisfaction of knowing that someone believed her. She's had counseling. She knows it was not her fault. The guy is behind bars for a while and will have to register as a sex offender when he comes out.

Please tell me you are going to call the police. Not doing so not only sends the wrong message to your daughter's friend but to your daughter as well. And maybe you can prevent this from happening to anyone else.

[Stealth01]

BT: I would agree completely if this were a fairly recent event. But it happened four years ago, and the culprit is in another state, so calling the police here probably isn't the best route to go at this point. And I still think it's important for the girl to come forward if possible. It's her life that needs put back together, after all.

I will discuss it with a cop I know, though, and see what he says. That work for you?

[BogusTrumper]

That would make me feel a little better, yes. Thank you.

[standingbuffalo43]

Bogus...
did you read all the posts???

you mean to say that every time a preeeteen comes home with a second or third hand story it your duty to report it to the police... if every person took this advice the police would never solve a crime... theyd be too busy chasing around jilted preteens rather than building cases against sex offenders & molesters...I know, my father is a policeman(a detective actually, who has much more experience than anyone on this board) I have shared stories far more horrifying than stealth's daughters friends w/ my Dad and he has told me more than enough to realize that running out half cocked to the cops when you dont know what your doing causes more problems than it solves....Stealth is handing this situation perfectly & responsibly & he is securing his daughters trust and he is helping te poor girl who is the victim to gain some peace of mind by sharing her pain and hopefully getting some counseling...by persuing the proper chanels, the professionals whose job it is to make such decisions as "should we bring this to the authorities" are consulted to make educated decisions... not knee jerk reactions... what happens when stealth follows your advice and goes to the cops and they say theres nothing they can do...what will he have accomplished??? destroying the trust built between HIM and HIS daughter???destroying the relationship between the girl and her parents??? Stealth is doing the right thing in persuing this path... besides, he still has the option of going to the cops...

its much easier to say go to the cops, then wash your hands... to SAY your doing the right thing...its much more difficult to take the time to actually do the right thing by finding out whether or not there are other ways to accomplish the goal...what the girl needs is the help of a mental health professional to evaluate her status... THEN and only then can the police become a viable option...



thank you...


sb43

[Player6600]

Bogus I agree with you. The girl's father who reported this crime should be prasied. If this wasn't reported who knows how many other victims he would have. Sexual abuse can have a serious impact on someone's life in a negative way.

[Player6600]

Originally posted by standingbuffalo43
Bogus...
its much easier to say go to the cops, then wash your hands... to SAY your doing the right thing...its much more difficult to take the time to actually do the right thing by finding out whether or not there are other ways to accomplish the goal...what the girl needs is the help of a mental health professional to evaluate her status... THEN and only then can the police become a viable option...
thank you...


sb43

I'm sorry but it's not your responsibilty to find out if the victim is telling the truth. Sexual abuse is a serious crime and if someone is a victim or says they are a victim then the authorities should be properly advised.

[EricStratton]

Stealth,

I follow the theme of most of the posts. It's not up to you to determine if she is telling the truth or not but you should tell her parents. Let them make the decision of what to do next.

At best she's lying and her folks should know that, at worst she's telling the truth and the same applies.

Good luck

[BogusTrumper]

SB3 -- My husband is an Investigative Coordinator for the RPD. He's been on the job for 13 years and he's been an investigator for 3. He has the experience to know whether it is worthwhile to investigate the allegations of sexual abuse that are reported to them. That's his job. He's made that call literally hundreds of times. He is better able to make that decision than you or me or Stealth or your father or anyone else on this board. He's interviewed victims; he's interviewed suspects; he's overseen the investigations; he's testified at the trials; he knows the tactics of the prosecution and the tactics of the defense; he knows what will stick and what will not. I assume his counterpart in Stealth's community has an equal amount of experience.

[BogusTrumper]

You know what they teach kids in school these days? If they are touched in a way that makes them uncomfortable, they should tell an adult. And if that adult does nothing, then tell another, and keep that up until something is done. There is a reason for that.

[standingbuffalo43]

thats my exact point...BT...as your boy from Rochester will tell you, its a delicate situation, so make sure you have your facts straight before you call the cops...Im sure he'll tell you all about how many times cases have been ruined or fallen thru because someone did NOT follow a responsible course of action...

"The girl's father who reported this crime should be prasied"...~player6600...
stealths daughter came home and told him...he didnt report it to the police, he was responsible....

people,
stop mixing your personal experiences into the question at hand...
I never said that stealth should take the responsibility of determining whether the girl is telling the truth, or to interrogate her or anything of the sort, quite the opposite... thats NOT his area of expertise... all I'm saying is make sure you know what your doing before you do the WRONG thing thinking that your helping...I AM a counselor and it is MY responsibilty to determine these things AND I have seen parents go off half cocked because their kid is fabricating some story... this is OBVIOUSLY not the case with stealth's daughter's friend... thank goodness he actually read and comprehends my responses...

For all of you to suggest going to the police before trying to figure out whether there is any validity to the childs story is IRRESPONSIBLE... that does NOT mean it is stealth's responsibility to determine who is truthful, its the school's counselors & principals, THEN the authorities... how would you respond if stealth posted back and said, "after talking with my daughter, I determined that her friends story was false or exaggerated or motivated by some other dysfunction in that girls family,etc. etc. etc.)" ???

I never said do nothing... I said do something AND do it responsibly, so your child & the trust between stealth and his daughter remains intact and healthy in the future...
please reread my posts in proper context...

I teach at a middle school and deal with this issue every day... I have seen both sides...the effective approach (the way stealth has handled the entire situation) and the ineffective approach (the tell the authorities right away before an even cursory glance at fact has been determined) in action...I have seen kids get the crap beaten out of them by the same parents that half of the folks that posted said stealth should go to & tell, tell, TELL......I
have read about the successes of former students and seen the flipside on the police blotter & obituaries...I have a father who is a police detective & I could recite hundreds of stories about child/sexual abuse how its been mishandled by do-gooders who stuck their nose irresponsibly into others business and caused problems where no problems existed before...I have a sister and a girlfriend who have been victims of sexual abuse... so please, I know of what I speak...and you have misunderstood what i have said...


find out if there is a victim before charging at the windmill all you don quixote's out there...



I hope all works out for you stealth...
I only wish more kids had a great father like you!
keep up the good work...


sb43

[BogusTrumper]

The police do a fine job of determining if there is a victim. They are pretty much experts at it. That's what I'm saying. It is not irresponsible to tell them.

[BogusTrumper]

So what you're saying SB43 is that we should stop mixing our personal experiences with the situation at hand but you should not? You claim to speak with authority because your sister and girlfriend have been victims of sexual abuse? Let me tell you what my experiences have taught me.

You have to make people understand this: You do not want your daughter, somewhere down the road, say at the age of 18, after a long big drunk at some bar, to come to the realization that children bear no responsibility in those situations but that it's parents who have the responsibility -- to protect their children and that you failed at it. Believe me, it will change your relationship with that daughter for the rest of your life. If it takes someone else to prod you into doing your duty as a parent then so be it. It does no good for anybody to keep any of it secret for any reason.

You have to teach your children that some confidences can't be kept. IMHO the possibility that Stealth's relationship with his daughter may suffer is not as important as getting his daughter's friend some help and getting a child molester off the street so that no one else gets hurt. Besides, it seems to me that Stealth is pretty good at explaining things to his children and that his daughter has a pretty good head on her shoulders. It's not her that I'm worried about. She's in good hands.

In my opinion the last thing a young girl needs is to have to repeat her story over and over and over and over. Once to her girlfriend, once to her teacher, once to one counselor, then to another, then to the principal?, then to her parents, then to the police, then to their expert (the police will want her to be evaluated by a mental health professional), then etc. It never gets easier. In fact, it gets harder with each telling. You may think that the right thing to do is to drag her in front of one "expert" after another. I do not agree with you and you'll never convince me. Even if she doesn't have to actually retell her story to each of these people, just the fact that they know about it can be a source of shame and humiliation. Why does the school have to be involved?

[Stealth01]

Decision made. We're going to the cops tomorrow morning and then probably to the school. More to follow. Situation changed.

[BigDoug]

Ouch!

[Stealth01]

OK. Have a few moments before bed to relay what has developed in this situation. It changed things radically and forced our hand on several issues.

1. Sarah spoke with her friend -- we'll call her Moon for now -- and found out that the abuse occured from the time she was 4 (and the abuser was EIGHT!!!) until she was 11 and he was 15. He is now 16 and molesting another cousin, though that may be consentual. It included some bad **** that I won't go into here, but it was serious and had enough detail that I doubt there is an fictionalizing going on.

2. Sarah tried to get Moon to go to the school counselor, but Moon was not open to that. However, when Moon found out that Sarah had told us, she was OK with that, telling me she is really crying out for help here.

3. After speaking with teachers, going to the school right away is not a good option. They will call social services FIRST and cause a scene, so we were left with the cops and her parents. We cannot locate her parents' phone # and she won't give it, so we are left with one choice only. The cops.

4. Based on the fact that he is still molesting, has threatened her to keep her quiet, and all of the above, we are contacting the police in the morning. We will try to do so through the school DARE officer, who is known and trusted by all the kids and should make sure this happens in a manner that protects Moon. But if we must, we will go through the sex crimes unit. If they tell us to go to the school we will, but I think they will handle it.

5. Sarah is really worried and stressed, but handling this like a trooper. She knows we have consulted chaplains, teachers, counselors, victims of sexual abuse, and medical professionals, and we know what we're doing. She realizes Moon might be ticked at her, but just wants to get her help. She is worried that Moon will have to go through this alone, and wants REALLY bad to be there to hold her hand when she answers questions tomorrow. She wants to have a chance to soften it for her and tell her what's happening, but we don't want her to run. Sarah's ONLY concern is for her friend, and it's incredibly touching to see. When I told her she did the right thing in not sitting on the info despite Moon's request to do so, she said, "What else could I do? She's my friend. I want to get her help." I just about cried. She's proving to me that for every canerous legion in the human soul, there's stronger, brighter soul that is placed on this earth to counter it. For every evil there's good here to defeat it.

Sarah doesn't realize it now, but she may be, in the end, the person who saved this girl's life. She may already have done more good for someone by age 12 than some people do their whole life. And as worried as I am about her, I just can't stop being proud of her, either. She's proven to me that she's everything I wanted in a daughter and more.

So that's the story. If I can, I will let you know how things go tomorrow, but I think once the cops have this, I will ask the mods to delete the thread, just to remove the info from the net. There's a young man in the southeast who's going to get a visit tomorrow, too, and believe it or not, I hope he gets help. Molesting at age eight. My God. What have we come to? When did we start replacing innocence with hatred?

Sigh.

Thanks for all the advice adn support. Pray for them all, please.

[Benjudah]

Wow... I just happened on this thread just now... and this is such a terrible terrible thing for anyone to go through. It angers me immensly what this boy did. I agree with you, though Chris, the guy needs help. He's 16 years old, probably extremely confused and perhaps locked into a pattern he foolishly got himself into and has in a way become an addict. Don't get me wrong, in no way am I making excuses for him. He needs to be punished. He has seriously and deeply hurt at least one little girl... and unfortunately, probably two.

I myself have no siblings.... but there are a few very close friends I consider my little sisters in a way. I'm 20 myself, and I have two very close younger female friends... one is 16 and the other is 18.... Some people gawk at the fact that one of my best friends is a just-turned-16 girl... but I say I'm more than happy to be someone's big brother... to be someone that a girl at a difficult age can always count on when she needs help... someone she can always talk to when she nees a listening ear... someone she can completely trust and count on. Someone tell me they have a problem with that.

I've seen both the 16 and 18 yo go through a lot of hard times... including being subject to a lot of selfish, and sometimes very wrong behavior by older guys. Anyone who forces anyone else, especially a child to engage in any kind of sexualy behavior is severely messed up. They need to be pubished and they need to be helped! People that do these things don't think about how they effect people and how they hurt not only their victims, but those close to their victims.

This situation has gotten me so angry and so sad just by reading about it... and Chris... your daughter Sarah sounds ilke a wonderful young girl and I hope she grows up to be just like she is today. There need to be more loving, caring, selfless people in the world. People have told me I'm stupid before for getting ivolved in helping friends when they were asking for help and no one else was giving it to them. When I've spent a lot of my own time and energy trying to help them... and usually making things better because of my actions. I never put my nose where it doesn't belong, but if a friend is asking for and needs help... especially if they're being mistreated, I'll spend as much time and energy as I can to help make things right... how can you call yourself a decent person otherwise. There need to be more people with that kind of attitude, and I'm glad that's what you've taught your daughter Chris...

I hope everything turns out for the best... or as least as good as it can be in this horrible situation... but even if this thread does get deleted, I do hope you will find some discreet way of letting us know what happens...

[Stealth01]

Well, Friday morning. I have about 30-60 minutes before I can call the cops and get this ball rolling.

What I'd LIKE to do is have Sarah talk to the detective, then have the detective go to Moon's home and tell her parents. Then have the parents go to school and get their daughter.

If the cops or social services goes barging in to that school, good intentions or not, and call that girl out in front of her friends, she'll clam up and never talk again. It took her all the courage she could muster just to tell Sarah--if it looks like "The Man" is in her face, she'll crumble, IMHO.

Some side notes on how this affects people. 1) This girl had a crush on a boy in 2nd grade adn told him what was happening, but (quite understandbly) he went into denial and has "forgotten" about it. He is now my daughter's first boyfriend. Ironic. 2) Moon is now so afraid of boys that she wants her parents to transfer her to an all-girl private school, but when she found out that Sarah will likely be at the same school (public) next year, she decided to stay there. 3) No matter what happens, Sarah now says she is glad Jen (her step mom) is her mother and is adopting her. She doesn't think she could have told her natural mom, but she went right to Jen.

Some good may yet come of all this, even if it is a closer bond between Sarah and us.

[Stealth01]

All 53 of them? :D

[BogusTrumper]

I hope your daughter's friend and her parents don't withdraw and keep to themselves once this all comes to a head. Sometimes when these things happen other people start treating the victims and their families like they are some kind of pariah. They are really going to need a lot of support.

[Player6600]

Stealth-You're doing the right thing. A lot of people would just say this in't my child so let others deal with it, but you are a good person for doing this. You are helping Sarah out and especially other potential victims who this creep could hurt in the future.

Bogus-I agree with you. It's a tough job that your husband does and he deserves a lot of credit. You really have to be emotionally strong as most people can't do it.

[standingbuffalo43]

BT...
you noted in my last post,
"So what you're saying SB43 is that we should stop mixing our personal experiences with the situation at hand but you should not? You claim to speak with authority because your sister and girlfriend have been victims of sexual abuse?"
No, once again, you couldnt have interpreted my post more incorrectly...the point I was making was we should avoid letting our personal experiences dictate the advice we are offering to Stealth...the fact that I brought up my own personal experience was IN RESPONSE to other posters suggesting such constructive advice like,"go beat up the guy" w/o knowing a single detail, justifying their entire post on the fact that their sister or wife had been sexaully assaulted...
and another thing, you couldnt be more wrong again on, I base my authority on the fact that I work with at risk youth & abused children every day at my job, NOT the fact that I know or date people who have been abused or that I'm married to someone who works with these kids...
I was trying to say, we all know someone who is a victim of sexual abuse, dont use it to justify an arguement, cuz I'm rowing in the same boat... we all want the same thing...dont we????

the point Ive been making to stealth is to find out whats going on before you jump in with both feet and damage the relationship he has with his daughter...some seem to want to jump on me because I didnt advice stealth to call the cops first, but obviously, stealth followed his own good judgement and did take the responsibility to find out the following:
1. that the story is valid & true (at the time of my initial post this was an unknown)
2. he sought the advice of experts (chaplain, school/personal counselor, cop friend, etc)
3. since then, he has found more info that does warrant getting the authorities involved... and he has done so...responsibly!!!

since stealth has persued a responsible & healthy path for his daughter & her friend, I hope all is well for him & his family...


cordially,
sb43

[BogusTrumper]

Originally posted by standingbuffalo43
I was trying to say, we all know someone who is a victim of sexual abuse, dont use it to justify an arguement, cuz I'm rowing in the same boat... we all want the same thing...dont we????

I don't have to justify my opinion to anyone. I just thought a little background information would be helpful in explaining my point of view. Furthermore, I am not the only one who thinks it might be helpful to Stealth to get an opinion from someone who actually suffered sexual abuse because as much as people like to think they know what it's like, there's no way they can really have any idea.

the point Ive been making to stealth is to find out whats going on before you jump in with both feet and damage the relationship he has with his daughter
Sounds like his relationship with his daughter is stronger than ever. In fact, I wanted to make the point that failing to call the authorities may harm his relationship with her.

...some seem to want to jump on me because I didnt advice stealth to call the cops first
No one is jumping on you but I know how you might feel that way. When you used the language you used in your replies to me, it seemed to me that you were jumping on me. If Stealth were not capable of sorting through a variety of disparate opinions on the situation, he wouldn't have asked for opinions on a message board.


We all hope all is well for him and his family and his daughter's friend and her family too.

[Player6600]

SB43-Your job isn't to try and be a detective and discover if this is true. Sexual abuse is a serious allegation, and if made it must pursued by the police. Stealth did the right thing he asked for help and went to the proper authorities I just wish more people could be like him.

[BigDoug]

Lets all stop raggin' on each other. Chris has made the decision that's right for him, as he's the one who has to live in his own skin. He needs our support, NOT second-guessing.

It's time to back away now, folks. I think your idea of "zapping" this thread is a good one, Chris.

[standingbuffalo43]

player6600,you said...SB43-Your job isn't to try and be a detective and discover if this is true.

i know, maybe Stealth should've taken your advice and beat down a 16 year old kid...

yet, after review of the most recent post, thats exactly what stealth did (& thank goodness he did)... he talked openly & honestly to his daughter, spoke with people he trusts as experts, utilized the school's DARE officer, etc. etc. etc. he didnt run to the police BEFORE he knew what was going on, hes going AFTER (why cant you or BT see the difference?)... now that he has established these things he can persue proper options with the authorities and with a clear head that he IS doing the right thing...HE is going to the authorities precisely because he did discover if it was true...HE tried to discern the validity of the accusation...HE did not jeopardized his relationship with his daughter precisely because the course of action he took... I have never advocated acting as a detective as you suggest... please read my posts before you cut and paste them together...


reeves,
you are right when talking of a jury...when talking of investigations into such delicate matters, letting such things cloud judgement can lead to molesters & rapists getting off on technicalities, no one wants that, do we? I know I dont...



BT...
I love your little insinuations in italics, but really, you called me out... not the other way around... in the future please read my posts... dont just read what you want into them...
thank you,



once again... all the best stealth, youre one helluva good father...
good luck!



sb43

[BogusTrumper]

You know BigDoug. I am being civil. I don't think I've said anything that is the least big inflammatory. I simply do not agree with SB43.

SB43 -- what is it that you imagine I am insinuating? What exactly were you insinuating with your "little" capitalized insinuations? I am not calling you out. Relax. I am really embarrassed that I have allowed myself to be drawn into this thing with you when the real issue is in giving support and advice to Stealth. Can we call a truce? Or at least discuss this via PM rather than on the message board?

I think Chris knows that we all support him. Have we not said so numerous times? No body is second guessing him.

[Player6600]

SB43-You just have to remember that it's not your job to try and uncover the truth because you may end up forcing the victim to change their mind.

[BigDoug]

Give it a rest. What is this, Finheaven?

[Stealth01]

Come on, guys. Stop bickering. I didn't mean to start a knife fight with this thread.

Here's what went down this morning.

I called the school guidance counselor and, without giving any names at all, explained the situation. IMHO, the guidance counselor was a complete tool. He actually advised me to contact DSS myself, like he didn't want to deal with it. And I had the distinct feeling he already knew, that someone else had already told him. He said that his first call would be to DSS, and that was NOT what I wanted.

So I called the police and explained it to them. They said they would probably NOT call DSS, since the child is not in immediate danger. They were supposed to send a cop to the house, but never did. I talked to their victim services officer, though, who was very knowledgeable and took a report over the phone. Took the girl's name and the situation. She said that they would not be contacting DSS, and that the only thing they would get from the school was the address and phone number (and so on) on the girl. On Monday, they will contact her parents and set up an interview with them and her to discuss things. At that time, they will recommend no further visits to the cousin and counseling and so on. They will also contact Alabama law enforcement at that time as well.

The cop was very nice and assured Sarah and I that we did the right thing. Said they will NOT go to the school and embarrass Moon, and that this kind of report (Third hand from a friend) is very, very common. The only thing that bothers me is that the suspect, if he is arrested, will know that it was my daughter who reported him. THey claim the constitution makes that his right. So if he is arrested and released on bail, you can bet I'll be buying a gun and taking some leave. NO WAY he's getting near my family without me there to protect them.

So Sarah feels better. Still nervous for her friend, but relieved as well. The girl will get help without an embarrassing appearances at school, and the bastard cousin should be in custody (assuming this pans out and is outside the statute of limitations.

All's well that ends well.

And I got to meet Sarah's boyfriend at school, too. And I didn't freak out and threaten to cut his hands off for going near my daughter...hee hee. I was impressed. Nice kid. And VERY good looking.

[standingbuffalo43]

...Stealth,

glad to hear all is OK...
also, glad to hear you handled it properly...

sb43

[Stealth01]

Thanks. It bothers me that the guidance counselor was a dork about it, but at least the cops knew what to do and how to do it to avoid hurting her more.

Poor kid. 12 years old and will NEVER be the same about boys/men again in her life. That's just sad.