Walterfootball's Update (McGuire)

[imontoya]

#11 Buffalo Bills: Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida
Derrick Harvey wouldn't be here if he didn't weigh in at 271 pounds at the Combine. I like that he put on that bulk. His 4.8 40 doesn't concern me because he is the quickest lineman off the snap in this draft. He is a relentless pass rusher, so the Bills lock him in at the right defensive end spot.

#41 Buffalo Bills: Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State
I think most Bills fans (whom I chat with on various Bills forums across the net - no I'm not a Bills fan) will be mildly surprised with this pick, but I wanted to do it to explore all the possible options this team will go with in their draft range with their second-round pick. Jordy Nelson is a possession-receiver type and has a knack for seperating without big-time speed. I think that's because he gets out of his routes quickly. He's a big target which is something this team could definitely use, and I like the chemistry here offensively.

#71 Buffalo Bills: Eric Young, G, Tennessee
The Bills need to find some young talent at guard to help out Marshawn Lynch and bring the offensive line together. Eric Young is a powerful player and a good leader.



http://walterfootball.com/draft2008matt.php

Great draft. I'd love the Harvey and Jordy picks. I would be shocked if we didn't pick a CB though. Small point, but I think we pick 72 in the 3rd round.

[superman]

Maybe the Derrick Harvery pick starts to get some steam. Im so tired of seeing Malcom Kelly's name. Anything but WR at 11!

[ChicagoBills]

Personally I think that McGuire is an idiot. He guaranteed me that Aquib Talib wouldnt run under a 4.5 and then did. The guy doesnt know how to evaulate talent. Now way do we draft a DE in the first. We draft CB or WR. DE is not as pressing of a need as CB. DE can be taken care later in the draft. Im not so high on Jordy Nelson either.

[FknGvna]

Still think mines' better. But I'd take McGlynn instead of Young anyway.

[Buffalo13]

I don't like that draft. Jordy Nelson is not enough to help us score. I don't see how anyone could think he is. And if we're looking to add a pass rush specialist (which is how i see harvey for the moment), then we could get one much later.

[Matt McGuire]

Personally I think that McGuire is an idiot. He guaranteed me that Aquib Talib wouldnt run under a 4.5 and then did. The guy doesnt know how to evaulate talent. Now way do we draft a DE in the first. We draft CB or WR. DE is not as pressing of a need as CB. DE can be taken care later in the draft. Im not so high on Jordy Nelson either.

I never guaranteed Talib would run a 4.5+ 40 secondly it was a 4.47 so he barely got there.

DE isn't a pressing need? Show me a pass rush. Where is it? I don't see it. How are you going to get to Tom Brady? You want to win the East, then you better get some pressure.

Oh yeah have had this arument a bazillion times but Stroud and Spencer aren't going to make your DEs faster or help them against the pass. The talent at DE for Buffalo simply isn't up to snuff (Schobel is solid though).

[jaymitch84]

I hope you guys calling McGuire an idiot realize those picks were influenced by things he read here in this War Room.

[Matt McGuire]

I hope you guys calling McGuire an idiot realize those picks were influenced by things he read here in this War Room.

They were?

I mean a lot of draftniks like Jordy Nelson. I'm just showing you guys the range the Bills have in rounds 2-3.

I was one of the first that said the Bills need a DE in the first round. First it was Merling, and it still could be Merling. But when Harvey weighed in at 271 at the combine and still showed good athleticism in drills I thought he was a slightly better fit for what the Bills need.

[jaymitch84]

They were?

I mean a lot of draftniks like Jordy Nelson. I'm just showing you guys the range the Bills have in rounds 2-3.

I was one of the first that said the Bills need a DE in the first round. First it was Merling, and it still could be Merling. But when Harvey weighed in at 271 at the combine and still showed good athleticism in drills I thought he was a slightly better fit for what the Bills need.

You are telling me that the fact that some people here would go down on Jordy Nelson if he asked them didn't influence that pick at all?

[gilchristfan]

I mean a lot of draftniks like Jordy Nelson. I'm just showing you guys the range the Bills have in rounds 2-3.

yeah, I imagine alot would like him. He was an All American, after all, and had over 1600 yards last year.

Mouldsie has been talking about him since last September.




I was one of the first that said the Bills need a DE in the first round. First it was Merling, and it still could be Merling. But when Harvey weighed in at 271 at the combine and still showed good athleticism in drills I thought he was a slightly better fit for what the Bills need.

One of the first? Nah, there have been plenty on this site talking about the need for a pass rush, and DE specifically.

Hell, we have a member called SweetLee who's been saying it for 5 years. So has Mouldsie.

There's a little disagreement between members, but there are plenty who feel the need to have some speed on the outside. Its no big secret.

We have Schobel, who puts up sack numbers, but as many of our members will attest, alot of his sacks are garbage time sacks. He's a liability against the run, doesn't often beat a tackle to the outside anymore (and that's his only move).

Denney's decent against the run, but doesn't get much pressure from the outside. Once in a while, but nothing consistent.

Kelsay's about the same as Denney, a little more pressure, but nothing really consistent.

The whole idea of drafting a DE in the first isn't drafting a DE for the sake of drafting a DE. It's got to be someone who is going to get consistent pressure from the outside. If it's just going to be a "solid" DE who will get pressure on occasion, we already have that in Denney and Kelsay.

Could it Harvey? Quite possibly.

[danamal85]

Oh yeah have had this arument a bazillion times but Stroud and Spencer aren't going to make your DEs faster or help them against the pass.

If I remember correctly didn't Kelsay run something in the 4.6's(I want to say 4.68) which means he is plenty fast. Though I don't think it translates well, and also it doesn't help that he doesn't have a ton of pass rushing moves. I also disagree with your other assertion that a defensive tackle like Stroud won't help our ends. If he requires to blockers that instantly changes the blocking schemes. One fewer blocker to go around.

I think if the draft played out the way you have it going I would have taken Cason and Bennett, in the second and third. Or perhaps make a small move up to try and get Hardy.

[The Real]

I never guaranteed Talib would run a 4.5+ 40 secondly it was a 4.47 so he barely got there.

DE isn't a pressing need? Show me a pass rush. Where is it? I don't see it. How are you going to get to Tom Brady? You want to win the East, then you better get some pressure.

Oh yeah have had this arument a bazillion times but Stroud and Spencer aren't going to make your DEs faster or help them against the pass. The talent at DE for Buffalo simply isn't up to snuff (Schobel is solid though).


I highly doubt they go DE in the first round just because of what it would cost. I know the #11 got paid well last year and it's going to go up this year. So if we draft a DE there how much money are we going to have tied up at end? Unless Kelsay or Schobel take a pay cut or get released no way they commit first round money to a DE. It's not economical to a team that stresses economics. That doesn't mean that I think the pass rush was acceptable last year but with Stroud and Johnson here I expect it to improve.

[Buffalo1]

Personally I think that McGuire is an idiot. He guaranteed me that Aquib Talib wouldnt run under a 4.5 and then did. The guy doesnt know how to evaulate talent. Now way do we draft a DE in the first. We draft CB or WR. DE is not as pressing of a need as CB. DE can be taken care later in the draft. Im not so high on Jordy Nelson either.



Did you watch our pass rush last year, it was embarrassing. I know denney and kelsay were hurt but if you can't stay healthy then you are no help to the D, thats part of the game. Even when they are healthy they are average at best. Also there is no WR worth the #11 pick this year and for our system we could get a CB in the 2nd or third that would be about the same as a CB we would draft in the first.

[Buffalo1]

They were?

I mean a lot of draftniks like Jordy Nelson. I'm just showing you guys the range the Bills have in rounds 2-3.

I was one of the first that said the Bills need a DE in the first round. First it was Merling, and it still could be Merling. But when Harvey weighed in at 271 at the combine and still showed good athleticism in drills I thought he was a slightly better fit for what the Bills need.

As long as this surgery goes well then I think Merling is a better fit across from Aaron Schobel.
Merling is better in traffic, taking on blockers, and stopping the run along with getting to the QB. Last year he started all thirteen games at left defensive end, earning the team's Rock Solid Award, given to the most consistent and dependable player at each position, he had 78 tackles (51 solos), as he totaled seven sacks for minus 50 yards, 17 stops for losses of 80 yards and 21 quarterback pressures…
Plus he is a stable family man with a daughter and fiance' and has been groomed by Gaines Adams.

In my opinion Harvey is a better speed rusher (although his speed is not where I thought it was), 1 gap pass rusher and tends to get lost or easily taken out of the play when he has to taken blockers and is not as good against the run. He had 49 tackles (31 solos), 8.5 sacks for minus 63 yards, 17 stops for losses of 89 yards last year. Harvey is also a bit inconsistent, he had a great bowl game but during the season would dissapear from games.

When considering the pairing with Schobel I think Merling would be the perfect bookend to compliment Aaron's speed rush and he is just another tool to aid in our run D. Harvey's bread and butter was his explosion and speed now that he added some weight and slowed his 40 to a 4.8 don't you think that he may be playing to his weaknesses to quell the "undersized" negatives that have been put on him instead of playing to his strengths of speed and quickness?