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View Full Version : Iraq War: Why did we do it?


JimKelly12203
February 12th, 2008, 3:17:55 AM
Got a few days away from computer comming up. Haven't posted much here lately. So here it goes.

Rant on!

I didn't come up with the concept of "follow the money" but i do abide by it. And in this case the money doesn't lie. The following is absolutely 100% irrefutable truth. I haven't posted much lately on this forum, so do me this honor... Read this post and i encourage you to refute me wherever i've "gone too far". I am especially looking forward to my adopt a range member Uppy's reply. <3 you son!

1) On 9/11 we were attacked by 19 men, 15 of which were Saudis. None of which were Iraqis.

2) Oil is a fairly unique comodity in that it's supply will at best remain static, while it's demand will always increase with time. ALWAYS!

3) With that being the case, if you disrupt the supply of oil in the face of ever increasing demand, the price will NECISSARILY go up.

4) Iraq was a top 4 exporter of oil in the world.

5) Saudi Arabia is #1 (soon to be overthrown by the insurgent Venezuela).

6) Saudi Arabia has a close relationship with the united states, in particular with the Bush clan. Disputing this particular fact is akin to lunacy.

7) As the #1 exporter, SA was in a position to dictate OPEC policy. If you don't want to ship the ammount of oil they tell you to (and only the amount they tell you to)? Then fine. They open up their wells and start pumping at max capacity. The result? You lose money. They have the most oil. They can afford to suffer through a few months of low oil prices, you can't (even if you're #2,3 or 4). You lose tons of money at best and go bankrupt at worst, or you do as they tell you.

That's not even to mention the fact that Saudi Arabia's ally just happens to be the sole superpower on the planet and the country with the biggest thirst for oil on that planet.

8) Sadam defied Saudi Arabia. Initially, Sadam attempted to take out Kuwait. But the plan was far larger than that. Sadam had the 3rd largest land army in the world when he invaded Kuwait. He was clearly setting himslef up to attack neighboring SA. We stopped it, but SA was shitting itself to be sure. He wanted to be #1 in OPEC. He wanted to be the dude that told the other countries how much oil they can export. This desire was not unique to Sadam by any means. The difference was the other opec countries didn't have the army or the balls to try it.

Beyond that, we sort of betrayed Sadam. Look, i'm not saying the guy is a saint or that he even deserved to live. the bottom line is that he was given chemical weapons by the United States to use against Iran and the Curds. Again... this may not be convenient. But it's the truth.

Prior to Sadam's invasion of Kuwait, he notified Washington of his plans. in 1990 Jim baker (then secretary of state) replied; "We have no opinion on your border dissagreement with kuwait. The issue is not associated with America".

I swear on the soul's of my children i'm not making this up. The fact that you won't read it in a history text doesn't make it false. Baker said that in response to Sadam's warning that he was going into Kuwait... In many ways, this is an illustration of the quagmire our country finds itself in. We (the people) just aren't handed the information we need to make informed decisions. You have to dig. And when you do... you're considered a fringe "lunatic" because that information wasn't provided by the MSM.

Right before we invaded Iraq, you'll remember oil prices were in massive flux. One week it was 2.50/gal. The next week it was 1.85. The week after that, it was 2.60. Then it was 1.50.

Why? Because Sadam saw the writing on the wall. He knew (as did anyone paying attention at the time that Bush took office) that little bush was gunning for him. He tried to kill daddy, and besides, there was a lot of money to make. SO he flipped OPEC the bird and began a campaign of defying OPEC exporting laws. He just unloaded oil one week, then he shut his pumps off. Then he opened them up again. Then he shut them off again. The result was massively inconsistent oil prices.

9) we invade Iraq in the spring of 03 and the price of Oil jumps to 3.00+/gallon within a matter of 2 years. As a result, this is what happened to the stock of Saudi Arabia's oil company (Exxon/Mobil Corp). Please click the link.

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=XOM&sid=0&o_symb=XOM&freq=2&time=13&x=67&y=15

10) Dick Cheney refuses to release the details of the meetings that occured in his energy task force in 2000 and 2001. Even today, the meeting remains a mystery (though it's easy to immagine what was said in those meetings).

11) Our war with Iraq costs billions of dollars every month and yet it is waged amidst an era of corporate tax cuts (an unprecidented development in US history. War ALWAYS = more taxes). This begs the question... How are we affording this war?

12) The Hidden Tax. The US incurs massive debt as it is deeply entrenched in a costly war. We borrow the money to fight said war. Who picks up the tab? Saudi Arabia of course, but with an interest rate. To an equal extent, China buys up US debt at an unprecidented rate.

We're fighting our war on what ammounts to a war mortgage. I don't know about you, but my house (meager though it may be) cost a whopping 150k. We put 20 down and took out a loan for the difference on a 30 year mortgage. If we pay this thing off in 30 years, the total money we'll have given trustco bank = ~420k... That's the kind of deal Saudi Arabia and China are giving us to fund our war!

We're paying for this war. But we're not paying the IRS. We're paying at the pump... with an interest rate for our kids tacked on.

-------------------------

THis thing isn't about terrorism or nation building or WMD. It's about looting the wealthiest nation in the history of mankind.

We attacked Iraq with 0 provocation. Sadam was an *******, yes. So are many world leaders. The difference was, attacking Sadam would make a lot of money for those with the power to declare war. In contrast, attacking Kim Jong Il and his poorball POS nation was NOT profitable. Attacking China (the real "threat") is suicide.

It just so happens that the crooks who took advantage of these conditions resided in the Republican party. In a different place and time it just as easily could have been democrats who started the mess.

What's important to realize is that the real actors were not democrats or republicans. It was the international banking elite (who buy anyone they want) who lead the charge.

In the Bush clan, they found the perfect ally. People they didn't have to bully into doing things. The Bush clan (and their cronies) would make plenty of their own money throughout this endeavor. There was no need for strong arming or bribes. You don't need to assassinate anyone (JFK) or try to assassinate anyone (the gipper). The people "in charge" shared your view!

That's why George W. Bush was selected as the 43rd president of the USA in the first place. He was a stupid man that could be easily convinced that we're engaged in a war of cultures. The fact that his bank account (and those of his friends) were getting larger in the process was merely a convenient side effect.

Say what you will... It is VERY difficult (impossible in my view) to dispute these facts w/o citing Fox and Friends as your primary reference. That's the gag. That's where the joke's on us!

You're all smart people. All of you guys are.

So what's more likely? We had "intelligence errors" that drew us into a war that greatly benefited those who chose to start it? Or is it more likely that these dudes play dumb while being smart on a very sinister level?

What does the money trail say?

Rant off!

sukie
February 12th, 2008, 7:38:19 AM
I always wondered about the workings or reasons for OPEC. Thanks.

shiva2999
February 12th, 2008, 11:09:20 AM
8) Sadam defied Saudi Arabia. Initially, Sadam attempted to take out Kuwait. But the plan was far larger than that. Sadam had the 3rd largest land army in the world when he invaded Kuwait. He was clearly setting himslef up to attack neighboring SA. We stopped it, but SA was shitting itself to be sure. He wanted to be #1 in OPEC. He wanted to be the dude that told the other countries how much oil they can export. This desire was not unique to Sadam by any means. The difference was the other opec countries didn't have the army or the balls to try it.


Please don't consider this an attack because I enjoyed and agreed with a bunch of your post but this part is completely wrong.

Saddam had NO desire to attack SA. He had just ended a ruinous war with Iran and needed money to rebuild his country. The US, Britain, Kuwait and SA suckered Saddam into invading Kuwait by artificially keeping the price of oil down through their control of OPEC. Then they also let Kuwait slant drill under the border into Iraqi oilfields, and also had Kuwait insult Iraqi women in official communiques (I kid you not). Saddam, needless to say, didn't appreciate Kuwait, which had historically been part of Iraq, shooting it's mouth off and brazenly stealing Iraq's oil.

When Saddam could not succeed in either influencing OPEC to raise it's prices or Kuwait to shut it's mouth, he decided he had no option but to kick Kuwait's ass. But in a number of meetings, before he went ahead with anything, he sought out what America's position (his old ally) would be. Bush 1, through his ambassador and James Baker, claimed that they would take no position on purely Arab/Arab conflicts, as they had with Iraq vs Iran.

So Saddam invaded, and surprise surprise, Bush, who had promised to be neutral, denounced Saddam as the devil incarnate and happily put together the first gulf war.

If you want to learn more, I have in the past posted a ton about the first gulf war and what really happened. One of my many duels with 3rdbase actually wound up with him going to one of his neighbors, the former ambassador to Kuwait (some guy named Howell) to get support for the offficial story.

Trust me. Most of what Americans "know" about Saddam Hussein and his Iraq is complete ****ing bullshit, blatant propaganda designed to justify and hide the fact that the US, Britain and Saudi Arabia have been ****ing with Iraq since, also surprise surprise, Ronald Reagan was elected.

Green Lantern
February 12th, 2008, 11:27:27 AM
I also heard Saddam did not want to pay back a few hundred million the Kuwaiti's loaned him to fight his war with Iran.

shiva2999
February 12th, 2008, 11:36:10 AM
I also heard Saddam did not want to pay back a few hundred million the Kuwaiti's loaned him to fight his war with Iran.

So like any good loan shark, they broke his knees.

Green Lantern
February 12th, 2008, 11:37:41 AM
So like any good loan shark, they broke his knees.

It makes about as much sense as your trying to kill the guy you owe money to.

High finance.

pmoon6
February 12th, 2008, 11:37:45 AM
So like any good loan shark, they broke his knees.They start with a finger, then a thumb. Knees are a little down the list.

shiva2999
February 12th, 2008, 11:44:00 AM
It makes about as much sense as your trying to kill the guy you owe money to.

High finance.

You think the guy he owed money to stuck around?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait

Iraqi tanks attacked Dasman Palace, the royal residence. Emir Jaber Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah had already fled into the Saudi desert, but his private guard and his younger half brother, Sheikh Fahad al–Ahmad al–Sabah, stayed behind to defend their home. The sheikh was shot and killed and his body was placed in front of a tank and run over

uppy
February 12th, 2008, 6:53:32 PM
Saddam had, in point of fact, failed to comply with about a dozen chapter 7
UN resolutions to verify his disarmament.

This wasn't supposed to be a guessing game. They only way we were able to finally get the truth from him was with direct military force.

He also faild to comply with the gulf war cease-fire agrement and we need the bases
for the war on terror

35Pete
February 12th, 2008, 7:32:18 PM
I swear on the soul's of my children i'm not making this up. The fact that you won't read it in a history text doesn't make it false. Baker said that in response to Sadam's warning that he was going into Kuwait... In many ways, this is an illustration of the quagmire our country finds itself in. We (the people) just aren't handed the information we need to make informed decisions. You have to dig. And when you do... you're considered a fringe "lunatic" because that information wasn't provided by the MSM.



Just a plain outright top to bottom OUTSTANDING post. Had you have been in here posting more you'd have won the best PRS poster easily. Your posts are always of excellent and substantive quality. A learning education for all of us.

Thank you. It was a pleasure reading it.

Now about the snippet that I quoted you on. You are talking about 95% of Americans I'd venture a guess. If it's not fed to them by the MSM then it's a.) not important, or b.) not true.

We are a nation comprised of intellectually lazy ****ing idiots. You're right. You need to dig to get the facts. To get the truth. And the smart people that do this are called the idiots. Just like what the mass of idiots do in the movie Idiocracy. People that watch Idiocracy think it's a comedy. Actually, it's not. It's a documentary of their stupidity. Mirroring at it's finest.

Welcome to dumbed-down America.

shiva2999
February 12th, 2008, 10:05:45 PM
Saddam had, in point of fact, failed to comply with about a dozen chapter 7
UN resolutions to verify his disarmament.

This wasn't supposed to be a guessing game. They only way we were able to finally get the truth from him was with direct military force.

He also faild to comply with the gulf war cease-fire agrement and we need the bases
for the war on terror

Yawn.

Bellowing4DaBills
February 12th, 2008, 10:19:48 PM
Read this post and i encourage you to refute me wherever i've "gone too far".

I think you've gone too far calling the citizens of Kurdistan a bunch of coagulated soured milk parts.

JimKelly12203
February 14th, 2008, 11:21:37 PM
Thanks for that Shivva. I think you're right as much of that i believe i had actually briefly read once upon a time (all but the insulting Iraqi women part). I didn't realize Kuwait was drilling into Iraqi turf either. My understanding was that there were regions between Iraq and Kuwait that SA had demanded be shut down for the time being and that kuwait (a Saudi aly) was breaking the rule w/o punishment by SA. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kuwait was doing both (drilling into iraq, and on disputed lands that were mandated "shut off" for the time being w/o retaliation from SA).

Uppity! Are you refering to the same UN that Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld and Josh Bolton frequently trash? Are we supposed to respect the UN or disrespect it? Which is it?

Pete. I hear you man. It is, indeed, humorous. The irony that our "entertainment" is used to reinforce the nonsense. It is definitely a slap in the face that far too few interpret as such.

JimKelly12203
February 14th, 2008, 11:48:26 PM
I always wondered about the workings or reasons for OPEC. Thanks.

Hehe, me too Sukie. And believe me, it's definitely more complex than that. My knowledge on OPEC affairs isn't even cliff's notes worthy. I would immagine a person could spend a lifetime studying opec and still come out ignorant on their "business" dealings.

You have to be an insider to get the whole picture i'm sure. But there are definitely a few reasonable conclusions you could make on the matter. I merely ask, who benefited from this war? It just so happens they seem to be the same folks that were in a position to start it.

Coincidence?

Riley_Mason
February 15th, 2008, 12:48:10 AM
Why does any country get attacked? Because they're considered a threat, that's why. Who was Iraq a threat to? Not me.

JimKelly12203
February 15th, 2008, 3:15:59 AM
Why does any country get attacked? Because they're considered a threat, that's why. Who was Iraq a threat to? Not me.

IMO countries never get attacked because they are perceived as a threat (although the local populace is always told as much). 99% of the time, countries get attacked because the decision makers earn money from doing so.

There is perhaps nothing more founded in economics than warfare. It is essentially all about money. WHat they tell the peasants is irrelevant banter. It's what they want us to talk about. Islam, Freedom, 9/11, Patriotism... These are the subjects they want us to talk about.

They're not the reason we went to war.

nehemiah
February 15th, 2008, 12:03:19 PM
iraq was invaded b/c americans get a boner about killing brown people.