35Pete
February 9th, 2008, 7:33:42 PM
Got this in an email today. I don't know who this poster is, and I don't accept his "zero gov't" anarchy principle, but he makes some damn fine points about party loyalty, and how far we have fallen as a nation.
Have a read.
Good evening everyone....first, there are plenty of points in the various posts that I'll try to respond to....I just picked this one randomly...
As y'all know, I'm a utopian anarchist. I consider the idea of "creating" "LAWS" as being a form of surrender...a form of defeatism. In addition, there's a reason why every god and goddess who's ever wasted their time talking to folks has said that they are verboten.. In short, it's against the "laws" of "god" for man to try to make "laws". But, that being said, clearly folks have chosen to go down a legislative path.
I've said on numerous occasions that most of those who "founded"this country REALLY did not like government. In fact, they feared and hated it, many of them. The idea they began with was for there to be virtually no central government. The Shays Rebellion and the Barbary Coast Pirates prompted the Constitutional Convention which defined "powers" for the central government...this followed up with the Bill of Rights. The formation was meant to accomplish a couple of things. First, set up a process whereby in the event of, say, an invasion, there would be a format by which the states could more easily work together. BUT, there was a very clear delineation. Today, that distinction is non-existent. There are local laws, county laws, state laws and federal laws for the exact same things. As best as I can tell, this is a very clear violation of the constitution. But that hasn't stopped anyone.
Originally, congress was "in session" less than one month of the year. Today, it only seems like they're on vacation eleven months of the year...but, in reality, they're busy stirring up trouble almost all year long...the same is true with the state legislatures, county and city councils, etc. But a "legislature" at a desk and he's going to want to write something....put a microphone in front of him and he's going to want to brag about something he wrote, something he "passed".
There have been times when words such as "conservative" and "liberal" largely meant someone who did not believe in a strong central government (ie conservative) and someone who did (ie liberal)...then it became the latter did not trust the government with guns, which is quite funny because NO GROUP has trusted the government with guns LESS than the guys who set it up...and the former who didn't trust the government with "butter". Now we seem to have gone to a point where people ONLY want to "trust" the government...something that would make guys like Jefferson and Madison retch.
When times SEEM to most of the people to be "good", these guys are running to the cameras and trying to take the credit for it...when most of the people think things are going "poorly", they hide from the cameras until they can think of someone to blame the bad times on. When it's election time and folks thing that, in general, things are going OK, these guys campaign on taking credit for it and say..."why make a change?". When folks feel that things are in the crapper, they campaign on the "need for 'experience'" and..."why take a chance on someone new, in these troubled times...". And, either way, the people buy it. Congress' "numbers" are so constantly low that it's almost laughable when they talk about "all time low numbers" in people's opinion of congress. BUT, time after time, when people are asked about THEIR congressman, the numbers are almost always very high...in other words, it's those other 530-some congressmen and senators, NOT "my" guy(s).... And so, virtually every congressman, who has to run every two years, gets re-elected. About the only times a seat will change is if the congressman himself chooses not to run again...THAT is why there's gerrymandering efforts to the level they are...so that in guys don't have to worry about getting re-elected and so that the party's have almost nothing but "safe" seats. Have you guys seen some of the congressional districts? Some of them look like some strangely twisted lizards, which is probably appropriate. Heck, some even stretch, literally, along a highway for fifty or sixty miles to connect two separate population areas that are mostly of people leaning toward one party or the other... I wonder if truckers who run up and down those highways can call themselves "residents" of those districts?
What I say here must be taken as from someone who doesn't believe in government at all. But, I will say that if people continue to place so much emphasis on "party loyalty", there will be darker and darker days. People have sat back and watched the entire constitution completely destroyed...and in EXACTLY the way that these things have been done over and over in country after country....convince the people that they have some strange "enemy" and that the government must "protect" them. This country was founded with it being ILLEGAL to form a standing army. And this was with the largest power in the world, england, clearly committed to coming back, hence the war of 1812. Ponder for a moment folks....they saw NO NEED, not just no need, a disgust, for a central government and most particularly, for the government to have any actual power.....particularly to be "armed"...it was illegal for the government to be armed. Today, the rallying cry is "they're here among us"....And I listen and laugh my ass off...Guys, it was a coin toss as to whether folks were for a new country or for staying part of england...and those folks who wanted the latter, STILL LIVED HERE....and england was still determined to be here. And STILL it was against the law for the government to have an army....for a simple reason, because it would be easy to turn that army against the people themselves.
Today, people live with having nearly all of their movements on camera. ALL of their phone calls and emails tapped. People in the US are under more government surveillance than any humans in history. People get arrested for wearing political T-shirts that the power at hand doesn't like. People get arrested for reading the constitution in open. The day that those who founded this country feared most is TODAY...the day that folks like Jefferson, Franklin and Madison wrote over and over again would be the true destruction of the country would be the day the people let the government have these kinds of powers.
What I'm saying folks, is that there are FAR bigger problems than the typical bullshit that gets talked about in campaigns, including these now, and political discussions, including almost everyone that is going on in this country today.
Folks can fight each other over minutae, which is precisely what those who would make everyone muppets want...or they can take a look at what really matters. There is No More America....the rest of the political crap is completely moot.
Link included to credit the poster.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WTF_Is_This/message/629
Have a read.
Good evening everyone....first, there are plenty of points in the various posts that I'll try to respond to....I just picked this one randomly...
As y'all know, I'm a utopian anarchist. I consider the idea of "creating" "LAWS" as being a form of surrender...a form of defeatism. In addition, there's a reason why every god and goddess who's ever wasted their time talking to folks has said that they are verboten.. In short, it's against the "laws" of "god" for man to try to make "laws". But, that being said, clearly folks have chosen to go down a legislative path.
I've said on numerous occasions that most of those who "founded"this country REALLY did not like government. In fact, they feared and hated it, many of them. The idea they began with was for there to be virtually no central government. The Shays Rebellion and the Barbary Coast Pirates prompted the Constitutional Convention which defined "powers" for the central government...this followed up with the Bill of Rights. The formation was meant to accomplish a couple of things. First, set up a process whereby in the event of, say, an invasion, there would be a format by which the states could more easily work together. BUT, there was a very clear delineation. Today, that distinction is non-existent. There are local laws, county laws, state laws and federal laws for the exact same things. As best as I can tell, this is a very clear violation of the constitution. But that hasn't stopped anyone.
Originally, congress was "in session" less than one month of the year. Today, it only seems like they're on vacation eleven months of the year...but, in reality, they're busy stirring up trouble almost all year long...the same is true with the state legislatures, county and city councils, etc. But a "legislature" at a desk and he's going to want to write something....put a microphone in front of him and he's going to want to brag about something he wrote, something he "passed".
There have been times when words such as "conservative" and "liberal" largely meant someone who did not believe in a strong central government (ie conservative) and someone who did (ie liberal)...then it became the latter did not trust the government with guns, which is quite funny because NO GROUP has trusted the government with guns LESS than the guys who set it up...and the former who didn't trust the government with "butter". Now we seem to have gone to a point where people ONLY want to "trust" the government...something that would make guys like Jefferson and Madison retch.
When times SEEM to most of the people to be "good", these guys are running to the cameras and trying to take the credit for it...when most of the people think things are going "poorly", they hide from the cameras until they can think of someone to blame the bad times on. When it's election time and folks thing that, in general, things are going OK, these guys campaign on taking credit for it and say..."why make a change?". When folks feel that things are in the crapper, they campaign on the "need for 'experience'" and..."why take a chance on someone new, in these troubled times...". And, either way, the people buy it. Congress' "numbers" are so constantly low that it's almost laughable when they talk about "all time low numbers" in people's opinion of congress. BUT, time after time, when people are asked about THEIR congressman, the numbers are almost always very high...in other words, it's those other 530-some congressmen and senators, NOT "my" guy(s).... And so, virtually every congressman, who has to run every two years, gets re-elected. About the only times a seat will change is if the congressman himself chooses not to run again...THAT is why there's gerrymandering efforts to the level they are...so that in guys don't have to worry about getting re-elected and so that the party's have almost nothing but "safe" seats. Have you guys seen some of the congressional districts? Some of them look like some strangely twisted lizards, which is probably appropriate. Heck, some even stretch, literally, along a highway for fifty or sixty miles to connect two separate population areas that are mostly of people leaning toward one party or the other... I wonder if truckers who run up and down those highways can call themselves "residents" of those districts?
What I say here must be taken as from someone who doesn't believe in government at all. But, I will say that if people continue to place so much emphasis on "party loyalty", there will be darker and darker days. People have sat back and watched the entire constitution completely destroyed...and in EXACTLY the way that these things have been done over and over in country after country....convince the people that they have some strange "enemy" and that the government must "protect" them. This country was founded with it being ILLEGAL to form a standing army. And this was with the largest power in the world, england, clearly committed to coming back, hence the war of 1812. Ponder for a moment folks....they saw NO NEED, not just no need, a disgust, for a central government and most particularly, for the government to have any actual power.....particularly to be "armed"...it was illegal for the government to be armed. Today, the rallying cry is "they're here among us"....And I listen and laugh my ass off...Guys, it was a coin toss as to whether folks were for a new country or for staying part of england...and those folks who wanted the latter, STILL LIVED HERE....and england was still determined to be here. And STILL it was against the law for the government to have an army....for a simple reason, because it would be easy to turn that army against the people themselves.
Today, people live with having nearly all of their movements on camera. ALL of their phone calls and emails tapped. People in the US are under more government surveillance than any humans in history. People get arrested for wearing political T-shirts that the power at hand doesn't like. People get arrested for reading the constitution in open. The day that those who founded this country feared most is TODAY...the day that folks like Jefferson, Franklin and Madison wrote over and over again would be the true destruction of the country would be the day the people let the government have these kinds of powers.
What I'm saying folks, is that there are FAR bigger problems than the typical bullshit that gets talked about in campaigns, including these now, and political discussions, including almost everyone that is going on in this country today.
Folks can fight each other over minutae, which is precisely what those who would make everyone muppets want...or they can take a look at what really matters. There is No More America....the rest of the political crap is completely moot.
Link included to credit the poster.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WTF_Is_This/message/629