Why Does Wal-Mart fear unions

[Gibby]

Discuss, please. Explain to me why as soon as someone mentions the U word Wal-Mart freezes pay increases, flies in toughs from bentonville to "persuade" workers about the advantages to at will employment. Tell me why the company -even in the slow months of January and February- will lift hiring freezes and hire dozens of new employees in order to create a more "democratic" atmosphere. Why will they watch all closely and install cameras in the parking lots to prevent fraternization with union organizers? Why is it that they will go as far as black listing employees who attempt to lead union drives so that they will never work again in retail? I can understand how in some companies unions might not be desired and this is fine and good but Wal-Mart is somewhat different. They break the economic spines of small town America, they wreck our economy and enslave us to China, and then there is what they do to their employees as they frown on having long term employees and seek to fire workers who have been there for more than four years. Their medical insurance is available to all associates as is the Ritz Carlton to a working class person in that you can have it but you cannot afford it. Then there is pay, or lack thereof. Really the company needs someone to come in and kick some ass.

[kybillsfan]

Unions can be a major pain in the ass, besides that if they dont want unions then its their business so they have a right to work without them. Do their employees really need a union anyway, should they really be paid more? Its not difficult to use a cash register, any idiot can do it and plenty of people lining up for a job.

[WhiteRabbit]

Take a look at the UAW and the American brand auto industry ...

[pabstman]

Unions can be a major pain in the ass, besides that if they dont want unions then its their business so they have a right to work without them. Do their employees really need a union anyway, should they really be paid more? Its not difficult to use a cash register, any idiot can do it and plenty of people lining up for a job.

So all unions do is try to get people paid more? So unions had nothing to do with workers rights? If employers could have been counted on to do the right thing in the first place there would have never been a need for unions.
Unions can be a pain in the ass. But if being a pain in the ass helped create a safer working enviroment for people who worked coal mines, factories, fire fighters, ect than I'm not only thankful to those who stood up to management in the past I'm happy to be part of that type of organization now.
Walmart does have a right to work without them but those workers have rights to it doesn't just work one way. I don't know if Walmart needs a union or not, I do know that just because someone runs a cash register it doesn't make them an idiot.

[Gibby]

Unions can be a major pain in the ass, besides that if they dont want unions then its their business so they have a right to work without them. Do their employees really need a union anyway, should they really be paid more? Its not difficult to use a cash register, any idiot can do it and plenty of people lining up for a job.

you do not work at wal-mart, so you do not know what you are talking about. What proof would you need that wal-mart needs a union?

[JLB]

Gibby Unions are really just another group of folks putting their hand in your pocket.

I was a United Steelworker of America member how are they making out?

Don't trust em never will collect dues but never really go after management work for management would be more like it.

Make yourself valuable and you won't need a union.

my two cents!!

good luck you have a long way to go. :rockon:

[jimmifli]

Any walmart worker that doesn't want to join a union is an idiot. Any walmart worker that doesn't understand why walmart doesn't want it to happen is too dumb to live.

[pabstman]

Gibby Unions are really just another group of folks putting their hand in your pocket.

I was a United Steelworker of America member how are they making out?

Don't trust em never will collect dues but never really go after management work for management would be more like it.

Make yourself valuable and you won't need a union.

my two cents!!

good luck you have a long way to go. :rockon:


The Steel workers are making out about as good as the non union textile mill workers in the south. Both of their careers have been shipped outside our borders. I don't know if you are, but a lot of people want to blame unions "alone" for costing jobs as if somehow management or corperate greed has nothing to do with it.
I know not all unions are good, but they are not all bad either.

[anEinherjer]

Unions helped to drive up the cost of labor and poof - makes it more economical to use cheap ass foreign labor.

If walmart doesn't want unions they have that right. Workers also have the right to join one. So what's the big problem? I guess not enough workers will join a union...

[JLB]

The Steel workers are making out about as good as the non union textile mill workers in the south. Both of their careers have been shipped outside our boarders. I don't know if you are, but a lot of people want to blame unions "alone" for costing jobs as if somehow management or corperate greed has nothing to do with it.
I know not all unions are good, but they are not all bad either.

Do you know about the grievance process in a union shop?

My experience was pretty eye opening.

In those back rooms deals and agreements are made between union higher ups and management. (corruption)

Unions as originally intended are great.

however today these deals are made and the membership never knows about it.

[Gilly]

any profession with unions are in the crapper, teachers, auto, airlines etc. why would wal mart want to follow the lead of anyone in those industries?

[kybillsfan]

So all unions do is try to get people paid more? So unions had nothing to do with workers rights? If employers could have been counted on to do the right thing in the first place there would have never been a need for unions.
Unions can be a pain in the ass. But if being a pain in the ass helped create a safer working enviroment for people who worked coal mines, factories, fire fighters, ect than I'm not only thankful to those who stood up to management in the past I'm happy to be part of that type of organization now.
Walmart does have a right to work without them but those workers have rights to it doesn't just work one way. I don't know if Walmart needs a union or not, I do know that just because someone runs a cash register it doesn't make them an idiot.
Unions were needed in the past but now are mostly corrupt entities that do our country more harm than good. See teaches unions. I didnt say that you are an idiot if you work at a cash register, I said any idiot can operate one. Am I wrong? My problem with unions (one of my problems) is that it enables laziness. Me and you could have the same job at the same company only I work hard and efficiently and you do just enough to get by, should we really get the same amount of dollars?

[kybillsfan]

you do not work at wal-mart, so you do not know what you are talking about. What proof would you need that wal-mart needs a union?
There isnt enough proof. Also my brother in law worked there, the level of skill is about as low as it gets for a job. How much do you think a walmart cashier should make a year working full time?

[anEinherjer]

you do not work at wal-mart, so you do not know what you are talking about.

Not to mention this is a pretty horrific appeal to authority....


The mind boggles: How would being unionized really help the average walmart worker? What is the argument FOR it? The true advantages of unions (workplace safety, hours, etc) are generally covered by OSHA and other federal labor laws, I'd think - the unions won that war when it was truly necessary.

I don't see much advantage to being in a union at this point.

[billsfan69]

I think unions right now are pretty corrupt and useless. That being said if Wal-Mart is black listing employees for seeking a union, they are breaking the law.

[micknaboz]

LMAO I love you guys defending the multi billionaire owners of Greed Mart, whose, policies are to not give enough hours to workers to qualify for their insurance plans, who then encourage their workers to apply for state and federal assistance. Who have been repeatedly sued over not promoting women or not allowing breaks.

Nice ****en country you got there.

[kybillsfan]

LMAO I love you guys defending the multi billionaire owners of Greed Mart, whose, policies are to not give enough hours to workers to qualify for their insurance plans, who then encourage their workers to apply for state and federal assistance. Who have been repeatedly sued over not promoting women or not allowing breaks.

Nice ****en country you got there.You do realize that those people have a right to go work somewhere else. Besides that, what makes you think a union would actually help these people?

[sukie]

Wouldn't Walmart fall under the Teamsters? I remember SILO trying to unionize back in the early 80's. It was the Teamsters and it failed 3:1

[micknaboz]

You do realize that those people have a right to go work somewhere else. Besides that, what makes you think a union would actually help these people?

Yeah they could go work somewhere else, thing is they are a number of people in our society just not smart enough or educated enough to to just command more money.
Does that mean they shouldn't be paid a livable wage? Cuz otherwise the taxpayers just end up paying their wages through state and federal aid that Wal mart encourages them to apply for.

If we have abandoned our humanity in quest of the almighty dollar, we are a failed society.
We have over 3 million homeless people. Many of them families and single mothers. Over 40% of homeless men are veterans. Its an embarrassment and a disgrace on our society.
So when I hear you guys slamming unions or wal mart workers for wanting to unionize, or for being too stupid or lazy to better themselves, needless to say I get a wee bit perturbed.
Not every union is bad or corrupt, just like every politician is not bad. To think otherwise only reveals an ignorance that can not be overcome on a message board.The republican "unions are bad' mantra has been pounded into peoples head for years, but its all just a con to put more money into the hands of the already rich.

I think a union could help these people, because there are power in numbers. You're better off negotiating from a position of strength, than singularly. If you try to go it alone their reaction is probably something like yours, to tell them they're idiots and go find another job.

[kybillsfan]

Yeah they could go work somewhere else, thing is they are a number of people in our society just not smart enough or educated enough to to just command more money.
Does that mean they shouldn't be paid a livable wage? Cuz otherwise the taxpayers just end up paying their wages through state and federal aid that Wal mart encourages them to apply for.

If we have abandoned our humanity in quest of the almighty dollar, we are a failed society.
We have over 3 million homeless people. Many of them families and single mothers. Over 40% of homeless men are veterans. Its an embarrassment and a disgrace on our society.
So when I hear you guys slamming unions or wal mart workers for wanting to unionize, or for being too stupid or lazy to better themselves, needless to say I get a wee bit perturbed.
Not every union is bad or corrupt, just like every politician is not bad. To think otherwise only reveals an ignorance that can not be overcome on a message board.The republican "unions are bad' mantra has been pounded into peoples head for years, but its all just a con to put more money into the hands of the already rich.

I think a union could help these people, because there are power in numbers. You're better off negotiating from a position of strength, than singularly. If you try to go it alone their reaction is probably something like yours, to tell them they're idiots and go find another job.
So do you think the gov should make the minimum wage $12 or so dollars an hour? That would be a living wage. You cant blame homlessness on lack of unions. Unions are bad for business, look at teachers unions for example, auto industry, etc. They were needed at one time but now not so much, they assume everyone is an equal worker which just isnt the case. Its not walmarts fault if people wont takle steps to better themselves. Personally if the walmart employees want to unionize thats there business, more power to them but I whole heartedly believe it will only benefit their demise. Only time I really have a major problem with people becoming unionized is when it is for services that I am forced to pay for like all the various bureaucrat unions.

[uppy]

Gibby why the hell are you working there if you hate the place ?

[anEinherjer]

If we have abandoned our humanity in quest of the almighty dollar, we are a failed society.

Yeah, we've failed alright. Richest nation in the history of earth, with incredible welfare benefits to help those who cannot get their employer to pay for it.

Care to attempt an answer to my question, mick, or will you just keep spouting platitudes and insults?

What is the case FOR unionization at walmart?

[pmoon6]

Discuss, please. Explain to me why as soon as someone mentions the U word Wal-Mart freezes pay increases, flies in toughs from bentonville to "persuade" workers about the advantages to at will employment. Tell me why the company -even in the slow months of January and February- will lift hiring freezes and hire dozens of new employees in order to create a more "democratic" atmosphere. Why will they watch all closely and install cameras in the parking lots to prevent fraternization with union organizers? Why is it that they will go as far as black listing employees who attempt to lead union drives so that they will never work again in retail? I can understand how in some companies unions might not be desired and this is fine and good but Wal-Mart is somewhat different. They break the economic spines of small town America, they wreck our economy and enslave us to China, and then there is what they do to their employees as they frown on having long term employees and seek to fire workers who have been there for more than four years. Their medical insurance is available to all associates as is the Ritz Carlton to a working class person in that you can have it but you cannot afford it. Then there is pay, or lack thereof. Really the company needs someone to come in and kick some ass.Management has to be very careful on how they handle a union situation.

You say they fly in "toughs" from Bentonville? They cannot use any form of coercion to stop you, as they cannot offer any form of bribe to the top organizers to cease and desist. That, of course would be under the table, so the organizers would have to be smart and of the highest integrity.

You would qualify.

I do know some labor law, but you would have research it in your state.

I know you're not going to be with Wal-Mart forever. You have to make the decision to fight the fight, or just bide your time until you can move to a better job.

If you want to fight the fight, you need evidence that they are freezing wages in the wake of union talk. If you are serious, you need to hold meetings with your fellow employees off the premises and the word "union" should never be mentioned at work.

Just my two cents.

[micknaboz]

Yeah, we've failed alright. Richest nation in the history of earth, with incredible welfare benefits to help those who cannot get their employer to pay for it.

Care to attempt an answer to my question, mick, or will you just keep spouting platitudes and insults?

What is the case FOR unionization at walmart?

Platitude this beotch!

They don't need to make a case for unionization to you.
They should be allowed to organize and vote on it just because they are legally allowed to do so.
And personally I'd rather see them unionized and earning a livable wage and benefits, then having the taxpayers subsidize a bunch of billionaires.

[shiva2999]

Yeah, we've failed alright. Richest nation in the history of earth, with incredible welfare benefits to help those who cannot get their employer to pay for it.


Not to mention the world's #1 superpower.

you must be doing something right!

[pabstman]

Do you know about the grievance process in a union shop?

My experience was pretty eye opening.

In those back rooms deals and agreements are made between union higher ups and management. (corruption)

Unions as originally intended are great.

however today these deals are made and the membership never knows about it.

I'm the vice president of the Fire department union in Charlotte, and I handle all of the grievances so I am all to familiar with the process and I can assure you I'm not corrupt.
We are a right to work state so you don't have to join but we keep nothing hidden from our 600 plus members or the 400 non non members who we want to join.
I know that a lot of unions have earned a bad reputation and as an executive board we go out of our way to have everything we do open to our membership. I'm pretty passionate about my work and i want our union to work the way they were originally designed for as you stated.
I'm not saying Unions are alway's 100% right, but theyhave done an incredible amount of good for this country. By getting people more money it's helped raise are standard of living. Without unions many employers didn't pay liveable wages, offer health care or retirement.
A lot of people are defendng these companies but look at what they are doing in these countries they are moving into. Without unions or gov regulation it's all on the company to do the right thing. A lot of these companies are paying slave wages, sub standard working conditions, some use child labor and many do little in the way of enviromental protection.
Without oversight thats what many copanies did in the past and they go right back to it when the leave this country. It will happen in those countries to, history repeats itself and eventually those workers will not be happy with just having a job and they will stand up for themselfs.
Even with the bad in unions, there are far more many good things if it's run the way they were intened.

[anEinherjer]

Platitude this beotch!

They don't need to make a case for unionization to you.
They should be allowed to organize and vote on it just because they are legally allowed to do so.
And personally I'd rather see them unionized and earning a livable wage and benefits, then having the taxpayers subsidize a bunch of billionaires.

:sigh:

I'm asking YOU, mick. Jeeeeeeebus.

It's pretty friggin obvious that walmart employees can do whatever the hell they want w.r.t a union, but I'm curious how it would benefit them!

So you are suggesting that if they unionized they'd all be paid some kind of "livable" wage, no matter what task they're performing for the company? And they'd receive additional compensation in the form of "benefits" of some kind? Or are you expecting something else/more?

[anEinherjer]

Without unions or gov regulation it's all on the company to do the right thing. A lot of these companies are paying slave wages, sub standard working conditions, some use child labor and many do little in the way of enviromental protection.

...and yet people in those countries flock to the factories because the factories are such much better than the subsistance farming they could have otherwise....


By the way, your post makes me wonder - why do people think of health 'benefits' and employers in the same thought? Is it because that's "just the way it is"? It seems to me we'd all be better off in a great many ways if employers didn't just hand out benefits as "extras" and really noted how much said benefits were worth as compensation.

For example, most people I know would take a 30k job that paid full health care over a 40k job that didn't. It seems like folks over-value the benefits, or don't see them as part of the overall package of compensation they're getting for their time. Anyway.

[pabstman]

...and yet people in those countries flock to the factories because the factories are such much better than the subsistance farming they could have otherwise....


By the way, your post makes me wonder - why do people think of health 'benefits' and employers in the same thought? Is it because that's "just the way it is"? It seems to me we'd all be better off in a great many ways if employers didn't just hand out benefits as "extras" and really noted how much said benefits were worth as compensation.

For example, most people I know would take a 30k job that paid full health care over a 40k job that didn't. It seems like folks over-value the benefits, or don't see them as part of the overall package of compensation they're getting for their time. Anyway.

We have the second problem. Guys always want to complain about wages and I try to remind they have to factor in the benefits. A lot of people just care about the take home pay and don't realize that benefits are part of pay.
I'm not sure when benefits started to be included with employment but it became one of those things you had to offer to get people to come to work for you. Of course it was actaully affordable when it started.

[JLB]

I'm the vice president of the Fire department union in Charlotte, and I handle all of the grievances so I am all to familiar with the process and I can assure you I'm not corrupt.
We are a right to work state so you don't have to join but we keep nothing hidden from our 600 plus members or the 400 non non members who we want to join.
I know that a lot of unions have earned a bad reputation and as an executive board we go out of our way to have everything we do open to our membership. I'm pretty passionate about my work and i want our union to work the way they were originally designed for as you stated.
I'm not saying Unions are alway's 100% right, but theyhave done an incredible amount of good for this country. By getting people more money it's helped raise are standard of living. Without unions many employers didn't pay liveable wages, offer health care or retirement.
A lot of people are defendng these companies but look at what they are doing in these countries they are moving into. Without unions or gov regulation it's all on the company to do the right thing. A lot of these companies are paying slave wages, sub standard working conditions, some use child labor and many do little in the way of enviromental protection.
Without oversight thats what many copanies did in the past and they go right back to it when the leave this country. It will happen in those countries to, history repeats itself and eventually those workers will not be happy with just having a job and they will stand up for themselfs.
Even with the bad in unions, there are far more many good things if it's run the way they were intened.


I'm sure you are not corrupt to.

I'm talking about big business where the all mighty buck is the only thing that matters..

I've been in the rooms where the decisions on how to handle a dispute take shape.

Believe me management just wants peace.

The worker really never get his or her way.

The company wins 100% of the time and it's frustrating as hell.

I've been a member of 3 Unions all did little more than keep the peace.

They don't want problems and really don't want to hear about them.

The open door policy in major companies is also a trap.

I spent 28 years working for a non union shop Eastman Kodak.

That's where I experienced the bullshit of the open door.

Nobody should ever fall for that bullshit.

You are in a service to community position.

Your experience would be a much better one.

Backstabbing runs rampant in major companies.

I'm quite sure where you work honor and integrity hold a greater meaning.

Thanks for your great response!

Thanks for what you do! :beers:

[phishhead220]

I saw this documentary "Walmart: The High Cost of Low Prices." It exposed some of the serious wrongdoings of Walmart. Of course it was very biased against Walmart, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

[pmoon6]

That's what I always liked about this board.

If somebody needs some help, even the people that don't post here often, step in.

I guess that's why Buffalo is a community... and even though some have moved away, they still feel a part of it.

Even though I haven't lived there in years, it's still a part of me.

[Gibby]

Any walmart worker that doesn't want to join a union is an idiot. Any walmart worker that doesn't understand why walmart doesn't want it to happen is too dumb to live.

I do know why they do not want to unionize, but I want other people's take on the subject.

[Gibby]

Gibby why the hell are you working there if you hate the place ?

I needed a job and they hired me.

[TigerJ]

There does seem to be a bit of a contradiction here. You asked for opinions on why Walmart opposes unions, then dismiss everything you don't like to hear because it comes from people who have never worked at Walmart. Why bother asking?

The reason is obvious. Walmart thrives and grows mostly by controlling costs. They not only use strongarm tactics on employees, they use them on suppliers of merchandise too. If you are the largest retailer in the world, you can do that. Simply threaten to take your business elsewhere, and a lot of suppliers are going to buckle and give Walmart the best possible. I have known a couple people who have worked for Walmart. One managed a stationary department. Her husband had a different job and they had no children. She enjoyed it and seemed to think she was earning enough money at it. I know a woman who worked for a number of years setting up warehouses for Walmart, Though she no longer does that, she bears no animosity toward Walmart, and maintains connections with them. I can certainly see why someone who depends on Walmart for the sole source of family income and health insurance would get frustrated, just like my daughter is frustrated at working for a call center, and millions of others are frustrated at working other non-union jobs. The only real difference with Walmart is size. I think they are the largest single employer in the country, aren't they? My daughter is looking for a different job. since complaining about Walmart probably won't change anything, that's probably the route you should go too. Kmart in unionized, BTW. I'm not sure if Wegmans is unionized, but they have a reputation as a great company to work for, if you're in western NY.

[SweetLee8 3PlayaWha?]

Unions helped to drive up the cost of labor and poof - makes it more economical to use cheap ass foreign labor.

If walmart doesn't want unions they have that right. Workers also have the right to join one. So what's the big problem? I guess not enough workers will join a union...

They won't join because they will lose their job or be shunned. This is such a silly argument.

[anEinherjer]

????

If they can get everyone to join that union, they'd be able to force Walmart to hire them. Or force walmart to leave because there'd be no workers, then they can get a different cheap-shit store to move in, like Target or something.

[anEinherjer]

We have the second problem. Guys always want to complain about wages and I try to remind they have to factor in the benefits. A lot of people just care about the take home pay and don't realize that benefits are part of pay.
I'm not sure when benefits started to be included with employment but it became one of those things you had to offer to get people to come to work for you. Of course it was actaully affordable when it started.

It's strange - EMPLOYERS don't make the distinction that benefits are compensation either!

The last couple months I've been poking around at jobs in Buffalo. Every one asks me what I want to make. I tell them I'm hoping for X in total compensation... or ask them, "How much is the health care benefit worth on the yearly basis", and noone knows right away - they can find out, of course, but you'd think it'd be more significant.

For instance, I got a job offer from one place, and asked the question, since they make a HUGE deal about providing full health/dental coverage. Turns out it's some Flex-family thing from Independent Health and it's worth about $9000 a year.

Fine! It's worth 9k of salary to me. If I can find another job that'll pay me 10k more than this place, even with fewer benefits, it's better for me.

But people look at you like you have 2 heads if you make that connection.

The only thing I haven't figured out yet is how to factor in the benefit of time off. What's a day of vacation really worth?

[Sparx]

How much do you think a walmart cashier should make a year working full time?

I'd say more than the 15,000 - 19,000 they make right now. I've been a cashier at wal mart (for 3 months, wanted to kill myself) horrible job. Dealing with the worst people imaginable. I got out of there right quick.

[Riley_Mason]

Do their employees really need a union anyway, should they really be paid more? Its not difficult to use a cash register, any idiot can do it and plenty of people lining up for a job.
These are the exact kind of jobs that need a union. The kind of employee that can be replaced at a moment's notice. It's not a bad thing to protect the weakest, or as you would call them, "idiots".

[kybillsfan]

These are the exact kind of jobs that need a union. The kind of employee that can be replaced at a moment's notice. It's not a bad thing to protect the weakest, or as you would call them, "idiots".What about the rights of an employer to fire an unsuccessful employee if they see it fit? I didnt call anyone an idiot, you should re-read what I wrote. I'm not one for calling people names.

[SweetLee8 3PlayaWha?]

????

If they can get everyone to join that union, they'd be able to force Walmart to hire them. Or force walmart to leave because there'd be no workers, then they can get a different cheap-shit store to move in, like Target or something.

Dude, think realistically. People just want their crappy job. What loser wants to speak out and go to being homeless. I think you are on the wrong side.

[kybillsfan]

Dude, think realistically. People just want their crappy job. What loser wants to speak out and go to being homeless. I think you are on the wrong side.How realistic is it to believe that if someone mentions union then they will be homeless, I think your stretching it to fit your view.

[SweetLee8 3PlayaWha?]

How realistic is it to believe that if someone mentions union then they will be homeless, I think your stretching it to fit your view.

So losing your job and then becoming homeless is a stretch? You miss the idea homey. And if you think Wal Mart Employees CAN form a union, you are even crazier.

[anEinherjer]

:rofl:

I didn't know I was on any side in this debate, but okay.

[kybillsfan]

So losing your job and then becoming homeless is a stretch? You miss the idea homey. And if you think Wal Mart Employees CAN form a union, you are even crazier.Yes it is a bit of a stretch, it can happen but most of the time it really shouldnt. Almost anywhere anyone can get an entry level job like that anywhere. Fastfood, retail, etc. Places like this are always hiring, you just have to have ambition and a little drive. I have known people who wouldnt suck up their pride and go to McDonalds when they were in trouble, I'm sure there are many people like that. If Wal-mart is really doing illigal activities to keep unions out then why doesnt someone just get the feds involved?