OK here is my dilemna

[ricogarion]

I have 5 to 6 hundred dollars to invest in a Desktop PC,not much by most of your standards but I have to deal with it.Should I go store bought or can I do better?

[nehemiah]

build that sucker!

do you already have a monitor?

b/c w/out a monitor - you can build a pretty bad-ass system for that amount of dough.

[ricogarion]

Monitor I do have so I guess going the build route could make sense.

[Merc]

Absolutely. Do you have a copy of XP?
BTW, this is one of the main reasons Pete started this forum. Build Your Own changes the computer world for you. None of the geeks here were born knowing this stuff. It all starts by building that rig yourself.

If you have a no s##t copy of XP it saves us $100. I'l draw a nice rig up for you and link it and then the guys can tear it apart. That is the normal course of events. At your budget every penny counts. Can you reuse any drives (forget IDE/PATA hard drives) like the DVD writer etc.?

You'll enjoy this Rico and when that thing you built boots up for the first time you'll know it is yours. Do some homework and ask questions. 90% of building a PC is doing the research. Get familiar with sockets, chipsets, memory specs, IDE and SATA , etc. Buy a nice case and Power Supply Unit (PSU from now on) and you are set for years. You can keep rebuilding at a cheap price forever. You don't have to be wacky like us but you may end up there .

[Woody]

You can do one of the following:

1. Build your own.
2. Get an HP/Compaq

If you want some balls you'll build your own.. if you want a quick fix for word processing and retro gaming you'll go #2. You oughta build your own... Merc should be on point with what you need and we'll be here if you need help putting it all together. :niterider

[35Pete]

Merk be the man. He's the 5-star builder here. Woody, nehe, and I can help you with any questions that you have.

But if you go out and buy a store bought computer than you are a run of the mill consumerist pussy and I'll have to turn my back on you. ;)

[35Pete]

Absolutely. Do you have a copy of XP?
BTW, this is one of the main reasons Pete started this forum. Build Your Own changes the computer world for you. None of the geeks here were born knowing this stuff. It all starts by building that rig yourself.

If you have a no s##t copy of XP it saves us $100. I'l draw a nice rig up for you and link it and then the guys can tear it apart. That is the normal course of events. At your budget every penny counts. Can you reuse any drives (forget IDE/PATA hard drives) like the DVD writer etc.?

You'll enjoy this Rico and when that thing you built boots up for the first time you'll know it is yours. Do some homework and ask questions. 90% of building a PC is doing the research. Get familiar with sockets, chipsets, memory specs, IDE and SATA , etc. Buy a nice case and Power Supply Unit (PSU from now on) and you are set for years. You can keep rebuilding at a cheap price forever. You don't have to be wacky like us but you may end up there .
Merk. The BIGGEST bonus is, that except for the very rare naggingly impossible glitches, rico will be able to not only root cause and fix ANY problem with his PC (building and installing is a great education) but he'll be another geek to offer advice to others.

When he sees the blue screen of death with "process exception error" instead of freaking out, he'll reboot in safe mode, open MSCONFIG and start turning stuff off one by one until he finds the issue. Then go online and get a fresh uncorrupted driver, install it, and be back in business within 30 minutes.

And another stormtrooper to ridicule the crap out of the MacInCrap crowd. :D

[35Pete]

I have 5 to 6 hundred dollars to invest in a Desktop PC,not much by most of your standards but I have to deal with it.Should I go store bought or can I do better?

With that little dough you'll blow away store bought PC's at 3x the price if Merk is crafty enough to find the right components.

Be prepared to be amazed at what a super-rig can do and how it performs.

[Merc]

This is a starting point and assumes you have an XP disk. This is offered up for the other builders to pick apart and trade off on. My philosophy for building is get a good case and PSU that you can add components to later without fearing a power drain or have cooling problems. At your price range you get a solid motherboard (mobo) with Integrated Graphics (IG) and a socket (where the CPU plugs in) and chipset (runs the motherboard and all systems) that can take at least one new generation of CPU. I also like at least 2 GB of RAM and it is very cheap right now, and a reasonably sized Hard Disk Drive (HDD) but nothing monstrous.

Down the road you can add a mid-level video card because you have the juice from the PSU to run it. You can always add HDDs later for expanded storage. Why, Because you know how to do it now. You can also throw a new CPU in because you have a retail mobo that is expandable.


Lian Li Black PC-A05 Aluminum Case $90 (free shipping) (we can go cheaper here)
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811112130

Asus P5N-MX 7050 microATX mobo with 7050 IG. 1333/1066 FSB $65
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131230

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 470 470 watt PSU 12v=26amps $75 we can go cheaper here as well but it is rock solid and has a 5 year guarantee.
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817703011

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz 6MB cache CPU. $199 Great chip that is smoking fast with plenty of cache. Have to get this from TankGuys. They don't wararnty so you have to go through Intel if it is bad (unlikely). Newegg is out of stock.
http://www.tankguys.com/product_info.php?cPath=29_178&products_id=1788&osCsid=50aa82175bcedf3c156765d87e7971a5

2GB (2x1024MB) G-Skill DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory $40
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820231098

Western Digital SATA 3.0 160GB HDD $50
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822136075

Pioneer 20X DVD/CD Burner $30
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827129018

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste $6
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007

The above is $596.77 shipped.

The e8400 are having temperature Diode issues but nothing unsafe or dangerous. You just may not be able to read an accurate temp on the cores at low speeds/low heat.

Like I said, this assumes we can use your old XP disk. I have gotten away with using a Dell XP install disk but Microsoft is cracking down lately. Cheaper case, cheaper PSU etc. are all possible but I like to buy cases and PSU's i can use for a few years.

OK guys, have at it.

[Merc]

Alternate FSP Fortron 350 watt PSU $37 shipped
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104901

Coolermaster Centurion $60 shipped
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068

The above save about $60 but I'd find the cash and get the better stuff.

If you want an easier build and no license issues you can get a fresh copy of XP Home with SP2 integrated for $90 shipped.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116056 You can use this forever. I have reinstalled mine on many different builds about 80 times. I have to call M$ sometimes but they just gve me a new code. As long as it is on only 1 PC you can use it forever.

[nehemiah]

just bittorrent a copy of XP.

then get a "barebones system" from newegg.

the only part of building a computer that will freak you out is dealing w/ the motherboard and putting the processor in there. those barebones systems take care of that for you.

everything else is literally plugging stuff in. it's really easy. like someone once said (confucious maybe): if you can put together lego blocks and read - you can build a computer.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167008
cpu, mobo, and power supply for $100!

newegg is fantastic w/ returns, btw... you don't have to worry about them scamming you, either.

[Merc]

just bittorrent a copy of XP.

then get a "barebones system" from newegg.

the only part of building a computer that will freak you out is dealing w/ the motherboard and putting the processor in there. those barebones systems take care of that for you.

everything else is literally plugging stuff in. it's really easy. like someone once said (confucious maybe): if you can put together lego blocks and read - you can build a computer.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167008
cpu, mobo, and power supply for $100!

newegg is fantastic w/ returns, btw... you don't have to worry about them scamming you, either.

This one is at the other end of the spectrum. 100 ways to skin this cat. Newegg is definitely the best there is at returns. One thing we didn't ask is what you want to do with this rig? You can do an AMD based rig as well for somewhere in the middle.

[Merc]

This is an AMD based Dual core rig that includes a copy of Windows XP SP2 in the price. Comes in just under $600 shipped but like i said, it has a legit copy of XP included where as the much higher quality Intel rig above does not. I don't mess with the pirated software stuff so couldn't give you advice on that. I plunk down the $90 and use it over and over again without any hassles.

Lian Li Black PC-A05 Aluminum Case $90 (free shipping) (we can go cheaper here)
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811112130

ASUS M2A-VM AM2 AMD 690G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $65
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131172

FSP Fortron 350 watt PSU $37 shipped
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104901

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Brisbane 2.7GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor $110
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819103210

2GB (2x1024MB) G-Skill DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory $40
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820231098

Western Digital SATA 3.0 160GB HDD $50
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822136075

Pioneer 20X DVD/CD Burner $30
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827129018

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste $6
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007

Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2B 1 Pack - $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116056

The above is $584.25 shipped.

[ricogarion]

You guys are the best I am grateful for all the time you took to get information this helpful to a geek like myself.Its friggin amazing thank you so much.Guess who is going to build a rig??? Awesome,lol..........

[Merc]

You're welcome mate. I keep several rigs on file at the Egg under Wish Lists and then adjust them as necessary. I'm sure some of the ther guys can tweak those or offer other suggestions till we meet your budget the best way.

Check this thread out on build or buy http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?p=1671305#post1671305

[ricogarion]

Ok so I purchase all this and then I want to do it. You know I am going to be a nervous wreck hoping to do it right.I wonder if there is such a thing as building a PC for Dummies.

[Merc]

Like nehe says, it is basically plugging things in but the know how to get all those parts together, understand what they do and how to match them is 95% 0f BYO. Please take the time to read the six parts of that guide I wrote in the linked thread. It will provide a good foundation of knowledge before you move forward. Seriously, knowledge is everything in this game and now that you are interested and thinking of moving forward you will find the info more interesting. Go ahead and read the whole thing, it will be worth the effort. nehe and Pete have both blessed it.

[nehemiah]

it is really hard to ruin computer hardware, rico.

as much as the media plays it up like some sort of magical technological "only an expert can do it" sort of thing.... it's really easy.

if you're gonna build the mobo/processor on your own, though... you are gonna wanna clear out a really clean/dust free workspace.

the rest of the build is a piece of cake, though. i wouldn't recommend others to do it, but i upgrade hardware with my cat crawling all over the place (including on top of the comp). just don't force anything into place and it will be super-duper easy.

[Merc]

it is really hard to ruin computer hardware, rico.

as much as the media plays it up like some sort of magical technological "only an expert can do it" sort of thing.... it's really easy.

if you're gonna build the mobo/processor on your own, though... you are gonna wanna clear out a really clean/dust free workspace.

the rest of the build is a piece of cake, though. i wouldn't recommend others to do it, but i upgrade hardware with my cat crawling all over the place (including on top of the comp). just don't force anything into place and it will be super-duper easy.

...and take your time. Rushing it means you miss things. Little things like counting out the standoff screws you'll need beforehand so you don't put to many in or to few. I know an experienced builder that shorted out his mobo because he left a stray standoff in the motherboard tray. Our cat doesn't come around but my two year old son likes to "help" http://web.tiscali.it/pljnsky/smiles/eyepop.gif

I'm getting ready to upgrade the wife's rig. Now that is a PITA. Big Time! Everything, and i mean everything must be as it was before the move. Default save folders, links bookmarks, passwords etc. I build it on the bench and have her test drive it a few times before i move it into her case (my now 5 year old and still looking new, Lian Li PC 60).

I sold a couple these a month ago. http://www.ez-pcservice.com/Computersforsale.html I better update some of those suggested builds as things have moved on.

[nehemiah]

some great links, merc.

you da man.

nehemiah may have to upgrade.

[Merc]

some great links, merc.

you da man.

nehemiah may have to upgrade.

The wolfdales are smokin'. It is a great time to upgrade. E8400 runs at 3.0 GHz and has 6MB of cache and costs just $200 from Tankguys with Google checkout. I really hope rico gets one of these at it is the best deal I have ever seen in CPU's, literally. I have one but miss the quad so am preordering the q9450. You can't believe how fast these things are at stock. Just blow you away.

[Merc]

Let's redesign this and make it more affordable and ensure that all the parts work out of the box (8400 may not run on the mobo I specified). This also includes a licensed copy of windows:

Coolermaster Centurion $43
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068

FSP Fortron 350 watt PSU $33
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104901

Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 2.13GHz 4MB Cache $199
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115016

Asus P5N-MX 7050 microATX mobo with 7050 IG. 1333/1066 FSB $65
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131230

2GB (2x1024MB) G-Skill DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory $40
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820231098

Western Digital SATA 3.0 160GB HDD $50
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822136075

Pioneer 20X DVD/CD Burner $30
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827129018

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste $6
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007

Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2B 1 Pack - $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116056

Silverstone 80MM fan (for case) $3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999343

Silverstone 120MM fan (for case) $9
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220025

Total $568.00 Add $35 or so for shipping.

This is my final list.

[ricogarion]

So Merc this setup will be a pretty good unit?

P.S. will I be able to call it a rig?

[Merc]

Yes, this box is ready to go. I think the performance will be eye opening for you as these Core 2 Duo CPUs are very fast. A similarly configured rig from Dell would cost $1059 but you get a keyboard and 19" LCD monitor with that. You also get tech Support from India. LOL. You don't get a windows CD from Dell and you really can't upgrade the Dell much as the PSU is designed for what is in the box and nothing else.

Here is the thing, at the $500-$600 price point it gets very difficult to beat HP or Dell. They buy parts by the tens of thousands and make suppliers dance to their tune. Your build will have some quality parts and you can expand things later with a mid-level video card and a new CPU without the hassles you see in the Dell/HP world. You'll never have to buy Windows again, which is a big plus and this rig would be under $500 if you had already had a copy of windows. BUT, as i said Delll and HP churn these out cheaply.

On this rig:

-The mobo is very basic but has LAN and sound as well as Integrated Graphics. You can play older games with these graphics but don't expect toplay the latest games. As far as photo editing and internet surfing etc, it is more than enough and will work quickly and provide a good image.

- The RAM is fast and you have 2GB's so no worries about ever being memory limited.

- The PSU is very basic. Very. It is reliable but has limited connectors (only one SATA power connector) but provides plenty of reliable power for this rig.

- I have built in this case before and it is a nice case. Once again basic but very nice looking and durable, as well as moderate in size. You need to add your own fans which I have speced out for you.

- Pioneer DVD writer is a nice piece of gear. I use them a lot.

- Licensed copy of Windows XP with SP2 integrated. You can use this in your next 20 rigs.

- Western Digital 160GB HDD. What can you say, great drive and plenty of storage.

This will be a very nice first build. It is relatively uncomplicated and will have great peformance numbers.

[ricogarion]

Let me know where I can send a gift card, you sir have been extremely gracious,helpful and kind.

[Merc]

No worries on the gift card, make a donation to the Range in my name if you feel the need. http://www.harley-davidson-site.de/wbboard/images/icons/icon16.gif I just enjoy helping people get out of the Dell and HP jungle. Once you leave you'll never go back. Let us know if you buy the gear and please do the studying before it arrives. BYO and you own it. No guy from India to help you. You always have the geeks here, though, and we are much better anyways.

[dasaybz]

Merc!!

Where's the GPU on this box?

[dasaybz]

I would try and find a haxed copy of Windows and spend that $90 on a 7600GT video card.

[Merc]

Merc!!

Where's the GPU on this box?

Integrated graphics. It's a microATX mobo with 7050 chipset/IG and a single PCIe 16x slot for a graphics card later.:deal:

[dasaybz]

Integrated graphics. It's a microATX mobo with 7050 chipset/IG and a single PCIe 16x slot for a graphics card later.:deal:

It's amazing how cheap this stuff is now days isn't it?

[Merc]

It's amazing how cheap this stuff is now days isn't it?

I hear ya. The 350w PSU will allow him to pop in a REALLY nice $60 vid card later on when and if he needs it. I am not a big fan of haxed copies of windows, especially for new builders since theer are always headaches and hassles involved. Also, once you buy it you can use it forever but it is definitely an option. My philosophy is get a good case, a good PSU with lot's of overhead in power, good hard drives and optical drives and a legit copy of windows and you won't have to buy them again for years. With that base locked in, future upgrades are much, much cheaper.

All the components except for motherboard, RAM and CPU are pretty much reusable for years if you buy quality. When technology moves forward you only need to buy those three items and you'll be right at the cutting edge again for a few hundred dollars. Right now you can get an E8400 3.0GHz, 6MB cache dual core CPU, P35 chipset motherboard and 2GBs of RAM for $370 shipped and after rebates. Plug them into your solid base system and you have an incredible rig, with the very latest technology, for less than what a POS Dell costs. In a couple of years you can do the same thing again. Most of the time you can even reuse the mobo and RAM as all you need is the CPU. The initial investment is a little high but amortize that over 10 years and you end up way ahead and always have the latest technolgy.

Folks locked into Dell and HP end up throwing a whole PC away, that is still 75% viable and solid, just to get some more speed. BYO means you can sell 25% of your PC and replace that 25% cheaply with the latest technology whenever you want.

Lian Li cases: I have two right now. One is 5 years old and looks brand new and the other is 8 years old and looks new. They both have another 10 years of life easily and probably more.

PC P&C Power Supplies: Buy one with some extra watts available (ie. if you need just 350 watts right now, buy a 610 watt model). I haven't heard of one failing so my guess is 10-15 years of normal desktop use before it starts to die.

Windows XP: Microsoft wants to end its life but that isn't happening and it will be supported for years. A $90 one time investment and you are good to go.

[ricogarion]

Merc I am so grateful to you and the boys for all your encouragement,my rig is on hold for a little while I had to provide the money I reserved to my daughter for her senior class trip.I couldn't deny her and buy myself the parts for a new tower.I will get this done sometime soon with your guidelines. You are a great person Merc I can never stop saying that,I am excited. Just will have to wait a bit I suppose.Please bear with me.

[Merc]

No worries. The longer you wait the better the parts you can get for the same price. That's how it goes in this game. We'll be here to spec a new one out for you as the stuff above will be outdated in 3 months. LOL

[Bosco]

I built my own computer...here is a photo of it.

It really improves your web surfing experience.

8609

[Merc]

Very nice. LOL

[35Pete]

it is really hard to ruin computer hardware, rico.

as much as the media plays it up like some sort of magical technological "only an expert can do it" sort of thing.... it's really easy.

if you're gonna build the mobo/processor on your own, though... you are gonna wanna clear out a really clean/dust free workspace.

the rest of the build is a piece of cake, though. i wouldn't recommend others to do it, but i upgrade hardware with my cat crawling all over the place (including on top of the comp). just don't force anything into place and it will be super-duper easy.

Just make sure that you tape the mobo around the mounting pins with electrical tape. Otherwise you'll short the mobo to the chassis and wonder why the CPU fan doesn't spin. It won't wreck it, the PSU is current limited. But you'll pull your hair out trying to figure out why it doesn't turn on.

Ohh, first install ONLY, the PSU, mobo, RAM, and CPU. That's bare-bones to see if your basic hardware in installed correctly. Then add the HD, video card, and other goodies one by one.

Then once it's all together and still the fan is spinning you can ruin the whole masterpiece by loading a copy of Windows Vista on it. Some of the best selling anti-virus products for the Windows.vista virus are System Mechanic, PC accelerator, and Registry Mechanic.

It's the most powerful intrinsic virus in the computing world.

Or....

You could go out and by a Mac in which case your wife and kids will immediately question your sexual orientation. :D

[micknaboz]

Wow , a couple cool threads here on BYO. Thanks guys for all the information, I'm gonna have to try this one day in the future.

My question for Merc, is how much 2G memory costs, you have it at $40. I'm not challenging that, as you guys are way over my head in this stuff, it just seems really cheap.
I mean is best buy really that over expensive, or is some memory actually better than others? Cuz I added a 512MB by pny, their price was like 79 or $89.( I got it for $29. cuz they screwed up and they substituted it for a cheaper memory that was on sale but out of stock).

So. Are some manufacturers memory better than others?

[Merc]

Wow , a couple cool threads here on BYO. Thanks guys for all the information, I'm gonna have to try this one day in the future.

My question for Merc, is how much 2G memory costs, you have it at $40. I'm not challenging that, as you guys are way over my head in this stuff, it just seems really cheap.
I mean is best buy really that over expensive, or is some memory actually better than others? Cuz I added a 512MB by pny, their price was like 79 or $89.( I got it for $29. cuz they screwed up and they substituted it for a cheaper memory that was on sale but out of stock).

So. Are some manufacturers memory better than others?

Mick-
It depends on what type of RAM you buy and not so much the manufacturer. Right now there is a glut of DDR2 RAM on the market because the manufacturers overbuilt in anticipation of a huge demand due to Vista. Well, Vista didn't pan out and we are the beneficiaries.

Here is 2GB of DDR2-800 RAM made by Corsair for, believe it or not, $34 after a $40 rebate. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145034 This is very, very good RAM made by one of the best manufacturers in the business and is guaranteed for life! It has pretty tight timings and is built for overclockers.

DDR RAM, which is probably what you bought, is actually more expensive than DDR2 as it is now obsolete since all new systems are using DDR2. 2GB of Corsair DDR-400 with similar timings is $134. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145575

DDR3 is the new standard and is outrageously expensive, just as DDR2 was a year ago. In a year, DDR3 it will be more reasonably priced and DDR2 will be getting expensive as it becomes obsolete.

Here is a 512MB stick of PNY DDR-400 at the Egg for $30 shipped. Yes, Best Buy is a screw job. Newegg has it at less than half the price of Best Buy and the Egg has a fairly bullet proof return policy. They are an excellent e-tailer.

Hope that helps mate and always check Newegg first for tech stuff. I got my Thinkpad R61e there for $499 w/ $12 shipping.

[ricogarion]

I am so dying to get started,I have the fever Merc.

[35Pete]

Wow , a couple cool threads here on BYO. Thanks guys for all the information, I'm gonna have to try this one day in the future.

My question for Merc, is how much 2G memory costs, you have it at $40. I'm not challenging that, as you guys are way over my head in this stuff, it just seems really cheap.
I mean is best buy really that over expensive, or is some memory actually better than others? Cuz I added a 512MB by pny, their price was like 79 or $89.( I got it for $29. cuz they screwed up and they substituted it for a cheaper memory that was on sale but out of stock).

So. Are some manufacturers memory better than others?

Mik. It depends on how much of an extreme you are willing to go for. I have 4 GB of Corsair Dominator (The turbo Porche of DDR2) that cost me $500. But you can get good DDR2 for your uses pretty cheap. I'm upgrading in a few weeks or month to a new mobo, CPU, and DDR3. Budget about $2,500. The DDR3 I have in mind is $850 for 4 GB.

So, unless you are REALLY willing to shell out big cabbage for race car caliber RAM (the stuff with the heat sinks, cooling fins, and dual 40 mm cooling fans! LOL!!!) the pretty good stuff will be WAY better than the stock stuff you have in that store bought POS that you are typing on, and the more you have the better. And you can get pretty good stuff at prices that Merk's speaking of. Trust me. It may be cheap, but it's still damn good.

You probably won't build a Woody, Pete, Merc caliber rig. You're not crazy enough to. :D

And why? It's our hobby. You're just looking for a screamer that blows away store bought shit, right?

[Merc]

Well said Pete. You can get some incredible gear, right now, for bargain basement prices. 99.99% of the people in the world do not do what we do with our gear. It is our hobby. But, we have insight into the market and where things are going and when there are good deals. I build computers for folks who do not want to do anthing but have a fast and reliable machine that WORKS and without all the crapware. My hobby keeps me tuned into the market and I can build them one.

Success for me is having to call my customer just to see if everything is alright. Usually I get a laugh and a thanks and then a few questions. i can always run over and tweak a few things. Most are just happy to get off the Dell-India train of endless hours of waiting for a person to read a script to them. All of them can't believe that a computer can run so fast. They all love it and I get most business nowadays from references.

Pick really good foundation gear, as i call it, and then build around it forever. A great Case and Power Supply is the base. High quality drives are the next level. Owning a free and clear license to the OS is the third level. With those in hand, and the knowledge you accumulate over the years, you'll never again understand why people would ever buy a prebuilt rig.

You just keep upgrading what you need to as the tech world changes. 80% of the time if you buy smart, you can flash the BIOS (2 minutes) and drop a new CPU into your motherboard and away you go for $250.

Freedom from tech support (it is always available, as you can see, is a wonderful thing). Hell, i have rebuilt this $400 laptop into a $1500 rig, for about $700 total, because I knew that Intel was banking on the chipset for at least the next year and a half. I logged onto a couple of forums, figured out the technology, a couple of members knew me by reputation and steered me right and I bought an engineering sample chip for $140 ($280 new from the Egg) and the guy called me on the phone to make sure I knew the chip was an ES. I would never have done any of this if it wasn't second nature to me to take any PC apart and rebuild it better for cheaper. Whole new world mate.

[Merc]

I am so dying to get started,I have the fever Merc.

rico,
Once you build your first one it will never enter your mind to go to Dell again. You don't hate Dell, it just never enters your mind. The Egg has a sale on CPU's, you check out the BIOS updates, do a flash and put the chip in. Brand new PC. Kids want a new rig you buy some used stuff from the uber geeks who are always moving up to get better numbers and spend 10 minutes installing the new $380 CPU you just bought for $250 and you are at the top of the speed game.

Over time you accumulate parts that aren't worth selling and you put together a rig for $100 for your 2 year old. Used cases, used RAM, old parts that are worthless, etc.

My game is I watch the tech and buy what I think is a hot number for $250. I then apply my skills and overclock the chip, safely ( I have watercooling out the ass) and then sell the thing as a known clocker for $300. Then I buy the next "great" chip, have my fun and everyone benefits. New guys get a known chip (overclockers are always after the next big chip that has headroom), I get to keep playing without going broke and the geek world moves on. LOL

[35Pete]

rico,
Once you build your first one it will never enter your mind to go to Dell again. You don't hate Dell, it just never enters your mind. The Egg has a sale on CPU's, you check out the BIOS updates, do a flash and put the chip in. Brand new PC. Kids want a new rig you buy some used stuff from the uber geeks who are always moving up to get better numbers and spend 10 minutes installing the new $380 CPU you just bought for $250 and you are at the top of the speed game.

Over time you accumulate parts that aren't worth selling and you put together a rig for $100 for your 2 year old. Used cases, used RAM, old parts that are worthless, etc.

My game is I watch the tech and buy what I think is a hot number for $250. I then apply my skills and overclock the chip, safely ( I have watercooling out the ass) and then sell the thing as a known clocker for $300. Then I buy the next "great" chip, have my fun and everyone benefits. New guys get a known chip (overclockers are always after the next big chip that has headroom), I get to keep playing without going broke and the geek world moves on. LOL

Build his first rig and he'll treat "Dell" like a 4-letter word. And once his PC saviness is known, friends will ask "Rico, what the best PC that I can buy?"

Naturally, his most honest response will be: "Mine".

[micknaboz]

than the stock stuff you have in that store bought POS that you are typing on,
Hey !! I'll have you know this is a bottom of the line dell. lol


You're just looking for a screamer that blows away store bought shit, right?

Yeah it'd be nice to have a faster computer for sure, though I don't do any gaming or anything that would make me want to have the very best. But you're right, thing I have now is fairly obsolete for anything but surfing or light stuff. Especially when it comes to opening a bunch of programs at once, like photoshop cs2 and then opening other apps, and having a media player running it starts to seriously bog down. Just a cheapo 5 yo celeron 2.2, 640MB Ram. I could take the ram up to 1026, just been too lazy to pursue it.

But this is pretty exciting, I really always have wanted to build one, just wasn't sure how much it would be worth it to really BYO. I'm not ready to do it anyways at this time, thinking in the fall perhaps, give me time to get up to speed on some of this stuff, but its very cool to know you guys are here sharing all your knowledge and experience.


Damn Pete, that must be some kickass memory for $850. Must come in handy for all the
High Def porn you download. :)

[35Pete]

Well said Pete. You can get some incredible gear, right now, for bargain basement prices. 99.99% of the people in the world do not do what we do with our gear. It is our hobby. But, we have insight into the market and where things are going and when there are good deals. I build computers for folks who do not want to do anthing but have a fast and reliable machine that WORKS and without all the crapware. My hobby keeps me tuned into the market and I can build them one.

Success for me is having to call my customer just to see if everything is alright. Usually I get a laugh and a thanks and then a few questions. i can always run over and tweak a few things. Most are just happy to get off the Dell-India train of endless hours of waiting for a person to read a script to them. All of them can't believe that a computer can run so fast. They all love it and I get most business nowadays from references.

Pick really good foundation gear, as i call it, and then build around it forever. A great Case and Power Supply is the base. High quality drives are the next level. Owning a free and clear license to the OS is the third level. With those in hand, and the knowledge you accumulate over the years, you'll never again understand why people would ever buy a prebuilt rig.

You just keep upgrading what you need to as the tech world changes. 80% of the time if you buy smart, you can flash the BIOS (2 minutes) and drop a new CPU into your motherboard and away you go for $250.

Freedom from tech support (it is always available, as you can see, is a wonderful thing). Hell, i have rebuilt this $400 laptop into a $1500 rig, for about $700 total, because I knew that Intel was banking on the chipset for at least the next year and a half. I logged onto a couple of forums, figured out the technology, a couple of members knew me by reputation and steered me right and I bought an engineering sample chip for $140 ($280 new from the Egg) and the guy called me on the phone to make sure I knew the chip was an ES. I would never have done any of this if it wasn't second nature to me to take any PC apart and rebuild it better for cheaper. Whole new world mate.

When was the last time that you "bought" all new stuff for your own new rig? In other words,effectively bought a new PC, even if handbuilt?

Me, it's been years. I just upgrade regularly. It spreads out the cost (no one time hit), keeps me AHEAD of what's current (obsolencense is a dirty PC word) stock stuff, and I have capabilities that even the stuff coming out in 6 months lacks. When I buy SW I don't even bother to look at system requirement save to see if it has that dirty homoerotic Mac Face on it that looks like it just finished a hummer on a PC user. :D

Or I'll check to see what overkill I have. When the emerging SW starts to require HW in the order of what I have then that's a bell to upgrade. Even though I'm still current I start buying key pieces one at a time to get my score up even higher.

Why EVER buy a store bought rig again?

[35Pete]

Well said Pete. You can get some incredible gear, right now, for bargain basement prices. 99.99% of the people in the world do not do what we do with our gear. It is our hobby. But, we have insight into the market and where things are going and when there are good deals. I build computers for folks who do not want to do anthing but have a fast and reliable machine that WORKS and without all the crapware. My hobby keeps me tuned into the market and I can build them one.

Success for me is having to call my customer just to see if everything is alright. Usually I get a laugh and a thanks and then a few questions. i can always run over and tweak a few things. Most are just happy to get off the Dell-India train of endless hours of waiting for a person to read a script to them. All of them can't believe that a computer can run so fast. They all love it and I get most business nowadays from references.

Pick really good foundation gear, as i call it, and then build around it forever. A great Case and Power Supply is the base. High quality drives are the next level. Owning a free and clear license to the OS is the third level. With those in hand, and the knowledge you accumulate over the years, you'll never again understand why people would ever buy a prebuilt rig.

You just keep upgrading what you need to as the tech world changes. 80% of the time if you buy smart, you can flash the BIOS (2 minutes) and drop a new CPU into your motherboard and away you go for $250.

Freedom from tech support (it is always available, as you can see, is a wonderful thing). Hell, i have rebuilt this $400 laptop into a $1500 rig, for about $700 total, because I knew that Intel was banking on the chipset for at least the next year and a half. I logged onto a couple of forums, figured out the technology, a couple of members knew me by reputation and steered me right and I bought an engineering sample chip for $140 ($280 new from the Egg) and the guy called me on the phone to make sure I knew the chip was an ES. I would never have done any of this if it wasn't second nature to me to take any PC apart and rebuild it better for cheaper. Whole new world mate.

I'd be humiliated to use Geek Squad or call a PC tech to work on my rig.

Notice the questions we ask here are esoteric odd issues that would probably result in Geek Squad replacing your MOBO for $600 parts and labor? Turns out you're running too hot and about 50 bucks in better efficiency fans plus HD coolers would do the trick.

They aren't as good working on your rig as you are.

Besides, it'd be beneath you. LOL

[Merc]

When was the last time that you "bought" all new stuff for your own new rig? In other words,effectively bought a new PC, even if handbuilt?

Me, it's been years. I just upgrade regularly. It spreads out the cost (no one time hit), keeps me AHEAD of what's current (obsolencense is a dirty PC word) stock stuff, and I have capabilities that even the stuff coming out in 6 months lacks. When I buy SW I don't even bother to look at system requirement save to see if it has that dirty homoerotic Mac Face on it that looks like it just finished a hummer on a PC user. :D

Or I'll check to see what overkill I have. When the emerging SW starts to require HW in the order of what I have then that's a bell to upgrade. Even though I'm still current I start buying key pieces one at a time to get my score up even higher.

Why EVER buy a store bought rig again?

My addiction is different. I did buy a new CPU, ($200 from Tankbuys for the e8400) and I got her to do SuperPi at these nimbers on water Merc/09.891s/P5K Deluxe/Core 2 e8400 @ 4682MHz/5-5-5-11 2T (624MHz)/Water/02-03-08

Check out that RAM Pete. That is DDR2 800 stuff. Team Xtreme with Micro D-9's. Cost me $56. The stuff is running at DDR 1248 with fairly tight timings.

Under 10 seconds was impossible just 6 months ago without supercooling. 45nm architecture is awesome.

[nehemiah]

......

[35Pete]

Hey !! I'll have you know this is a bottom of the line dell. lol



Yeah it'd be nice to have a faster computer for sure, though I don't do any gaming or anything that would make me want to have the very best. But you're right, thing I have now is fairly obsolete for anything but surfing or light stuff. Especially when it comes to opening a bunch of programs at once, like photoshop cs2 and then opening other apps, and having a media player running it starts to seriously bog down. Just a cheapo 5 yo celeron 2.2, 640MB Ram. I could take the ram up to 1026, just been too lazy to pursue it.

But this is pretty exciting, I really always have wanted to build one, just wasn't sure how much it would be worth it to really BYO. I'm not ready to do it anyways at this time, thinking in the fall perhaps, give me time to get up to speed on some of this stuff, but its very cool to know you guys are here sharing all your knowledge and experience.


Damn Pete, that must be some kickass memory for $850. Must come in handy for all the
High Def porn you download. :)

Mik. The myth is that home builders are super-smart. (Well actually we are... honest).

But you don't need rocket science to build a PC from scratch. I laugh at how intimidated people are with PC's. No wonder Geek "Can't Get A Date" Squad makes a killing off of the public.

WARNING: EXTREMELY ADDICTIVE HOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[35Pete]

Merc. The "Best Buy" crowd has no idea how ****ing slow and unreliable their store bought convenience mass production rig is. Nor how easy and fun it is to build a real rig.

A shame it is. Really. And a home built rig is cheaper too. Ohh the irony!

[ricogarion]

I am going to become the homeless addict in a cardboard box with the banging rig.

[Merc]

I am going to become the homeless addict in a cardboard box with the banging rig.

LOL. Nah. Here is the secret, get a nice case and a decent PSU (Power Supply Unit) that wll last a few years. Make sure the PSU has room for growth and is of high quality. Get a copy of XP as well. That is around $300 that you won't have to spend again for years. From then on you can swap stuff in and out as you have the funds and/or the need. Something else to consider is that you can usually sell off your old stuff when you are done with it. For your fist build I'd recommend new as teh retail versions come with all the cords and stuff that you'll need but as time goes on you'll accumulate a lot of that stuff and can buy great used gear from ubergeeks that are continually moving up. Most of my gear is used.

If you think that you will ultimately want Vista then get that instead of XP but I'm sticking with XP until something revolutionary comes out of Microsoft. Plus, XP Home is only $90 shipped and i have used the same copy I bought 6 years ago through countless upgrades and builds.

[Merc]

Merc. The "Best Buy" crowd has no idea how ****ing slow and unreliable their store bought convenience mass production rig is. Nor how easy and fun it is to build a real rig.

A shame it is. Really. And a home built rig is cheaper too. Ohh the irony!

I hear ya. They make a lot of money by loading pushware onto a system and all of that crap that you'll never use boots and eats resources. A system loaded with just XP is amazingly fast when compared to what it was when delivered with all the crapware and helper stuff.

[35Pete]

If you're truly gutsy go dual-boot mode.

Linux rocks!

[Merc]

If you're truly gutsy go dual-boot mode.

Linux rocks!
I may have to suck it up and buy Vista just to stay current as I am starting to get calls on that OS.

[ricogarion]

Ok Merc are you thinking that I should go with Vista then?

[Merc]

Ok Merc are you thinking that I should go with Vista then?

Hell no. It will mean a much more expensive build and it really doesn't buy you much. Plus it is a lot more expensive than XP.

[dasaybz]

Rico, you may want to invest in Vista in the future. Microsoft will some day stop all support, and stop putting out updates for XP. This is still probably a few years away though.

The Dell points you make are interesting Merc. I purchased a Dell simply for the fact that it was cheap with a monitor. I got my system for like $600 with a 17 inch LCD. I upgraded my RAM to 2.5 Gigs, and put a 7600GT video card in mine. The funny thing is, I work on this crap all day long at work, and by the time I get home, I don't even want to look at my PC.

[ricogarion]

OK my son bought me a copy of Windows XP Professional OS,now the question is how do I proceed to have somewhere to install it.I am ready to create a smoker of a rig.Merc can you help me?

[Merc]

Budget? That extra $100 or so will help a LOT!

[ricogarion]

I have $300 to start,in a two week period I will have the same amount.Now I need the purchase plan and I will be on my way.

[Merc]

So $600 total and you don't play any heavy duty games right? Just want a smokin' fast rig?

[Merc]

This rig will be very fast and can handle a decent video card if you want one later. I have a higher end case and power supply but these are things you keep for a few years so it is worth spending a bit more. You can always upgrade the CPU down the road and add hard drives etc. This will be Vista capable if you ever go there. It features:

- An Intel e6750 65w Core 2 Duo, Dual Core CPU at 2.66Ghz with 4MB of cache. These CPU's are eye watering fast and this is a very slid and capable chip.

- 2GB of really nice DDR2-800 RAM so you'll never see a bottleneck. I use Team Xtreem on my rigs.

- 250GB Western Digital hard drive with 16MB of cache. Very fast HDD.

- The Asus motherboard is Core 2 ready and features Intel's latest integrated video, the 3100 series chip, which is excellent for all tasks but limited to light gaming. It has a PCIe 16x slot for a video card if you want one later. It has 6 channel sound and a 10/100/1000 MBS LAN built in. 4 USB ports on back and 2 more for the front panel connection. Asus always packs all the cords you'll need.

- I have a high quality power supply listed but it is solid, warrantied for 5 years and is very quiet. It has plenty of power to run just about any mid level video card plus extra drives and such. It will last for years.

- The case is also high end. It is a compact all aluminum Lian Li with a unique design where they put the PSU (power supply) in the front. It works great and looks like a million bucks. Lian Li includes tie straps and some tools as well as all the install gear.

- 20x Pioneer DVD and CD burner. You'll have to get DVD burning software from somewhere else.

All you'll need to assemble this is a small Phillips head screwdriver. Everything else is included because the vendors are all top quality.

Parts:
LIAN LI PC-A05B Black Aluminum Case $89.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811112130

ASUS P5KPL-VM LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131197

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz Dual Core CPU $179.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115029

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 470w PSU $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817703011

Team Elite 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) $39.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820313019

Western Digital 250GB 16MB cache 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive $64.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822136161

Pioneer 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DVR-115DBK $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827129018

Total $554.93
Shipped (3 day) Total $585,39


I can email you this list from Newegg which would make ordering easier.

[ricogarion]

thanks merc,go for it my friend.

[Merc]

Newegg server is slow or something. Coming your way tomorrow probably.

[Merc]

E-Mail sent Rico. Your Range addee was used.