Hey Soup, why go public?

[Thumper]

For one reason and one reason only. It's not so that he can just "concentrate on hockey" (real original, Bri...). It's not because his teammates are "distracted" by Campbell's buisness (although they sure are now. Well done, Captain Campbell. Way to lead with the 'C' on your chest).

Any time a player goes public with cutting off talks, all they're doing is keeping their eyes on the dollar signs. Campbell's got no problem going the Briere/Drury route. Don't be fooled. He could care less to stay here if the Sabres refuse to pay him the most. So he's saying "I want to stay here" going the Briere route. While he's also publicly cutting off talks, going the Drury route.

You know, I don't seem to remember the Sabres front office making any kind of important announcement when they opened talks with Campbell. Why would they? What Campbell has done is he's latched onto the impression that this front office created for itself last season when they became "the bad guy". The Sabres front office are the one's who don't know what they're doing, right? The players are the victims. Campbell is playing the part of "victim" just like his predecessors. Well, more power to him, I guess. He's going to get a ton of cash and this was just another calculated move by a player and his agent to drive the price up.

This organization drafted and developed Campbell. Lindy Ruff specifically deserves a ton of credit for his developement. This organization groomed him and took care of him financially. It's given him every chance to succeed at a high level. Now, his day in the sun is only a few months away and Campbell doesn't care about anything in the past. He's holding the Buffalo Sabres organization hostage now.

He's not the victim, people. The Sabres front office is the victim of drafting and developing too well. It started with not being able to take care of a few trade acquisitions. Now its ending with them not being able to afford to keep all of their drafted and developed talent. They've made mistakes along the way (hindsight is 20/20. But Afinogenov, Connolly, and Kalinin have not and will not live up too contractual potential). This isn't the same as Dumont or Grier. But you can absolutely lump this one in with McKee, Drury, and Briere.

Should they have wrapped up Campbell last season? I guess so. But would he have accepted anything less than what he and his agent know (knew) what he'll get July 1st? There's not a chance in hell he would have.

Campbell has used the media for his own personal benefit, and he's opened up another can of worms for the organization that molded him into a two time All-Star. He's created an incredible distraction for his teammates at possibly the worst possbile time (during a 9 game losing streak, with Vanek, the last guy to cash in big, busting in the first year of his gigantic contract). If I was Lindy Ruff, Campbell wouldn't be wearing any kind of letter ever again for the Sabres, starting tonight. Unless Campbell changes his mind (impossible), and decides to stick with this organization for a nice amount of money (which would not be maxed out), then I hope he gets dealt ASAP.

I appreciate Campbell's game. He's a rare talent, in the form of an offensive defenseman. There are maybe 10 guys in the league that can carry the puck the way he can from his position. But now his true colors have shown through. They're not blue and gold. Is anyone surprised? I hope not. But don't pin this one on the front office as well. They're in an impossible situation now. Campbell isn't worth 6.5 million per season to this organization. If they end up paying that for him to stay, it just leaves the door open for another developing player to pull the same stunt on the front office, and cash out somewhere else. If they trade Campbell, well, then they look like they're not committed to winning. I think it's all bullshit, no matter how it's sliced. Goodbye, Soupy.

[beTough54]

It's only January, but it's hard to see another post beating this for post of the year.

[SabresAllTheWay]

Great Post Thump! I agree with you totally. Campbell has just forced the front office into making decisions it doesn't want to make. Partly, Campbell has screwed himself. If I was Darcy, or Larry, Campbell would be signed to a big long term contract, sealed up for a few good years. We are in the re-building stage the next few years, and we need some solid players to build our foundation on. Campbell does have some great talent, one that is rare in the NHL. He is able to take the puck up, which Afinogenov, Vanek, and Connolly fail to do, and score. He is able to take it out of his "zone" and shoot and score. Thumper, you hit everything right on. Good job man.

[Sabres244]

Great post.

I like Campbell too, I really do. But he really ticked me off with this. He went out and made Darcy and Co. the bad guys. Why? Because it's very easy to at this moment after the Briere/Drury crap. The truth is Darcy and Co. were in the talks and are still willing to talk to him. Wasn't that what most of the "fans" wanted? To talk to the player during the season? I thought so.

So now Campbell goes out of his way to say he's done talking and now all the media tards like Bucky Gleason and casual fans have another reason to go after Darcy and Co, one that is truly unfair. Sure they didn't get a deal done, but what do they expect Darcy to walk in a room with Campbells agent and have a contract drop out of the air? That just doesn't happen, ask Ryan Smyth.

If Campbell wants a dime over 5 mil and won't talk before the deadline then deal him, get something in return. We've got Sekera and Weber on the brink of being ready for this team.

[Thumper]

One thing I forgot to say.....

Go ahead and cut off talks, Soup. I have no problem at all with that buisness decision. It's an intelligent move for your financial future. But keep that shit in house. At least for as long as possible. Spewing it to the media only hurts the team in the worst possible way. I don't want a player that pulls that card let alone a possible Captain.

[bduff54]

its the way it is nowadays, athletes are all about the $$$$.

no loyalty left, except maybe sakic, sundin.

[Billsman]

You should have this on the SI. :)

[theratt17]

I agree Thumper, but the only thing i dont understand is, why would Darcy and the FO then go and state publicly that they are not going to trade him? I don't disagree with anything you said, i just dont get that move.

[dilbert]

Great post.

The only question I have is this:

Should they have wrapped up Campbell last season? I guess so. But would he have accepted anything less than what he and his agent know (knew) what he'll get July 1st? There's not a chance in hell he would have.

unless I am mistaken (and I am 95% sure) they could not lock him until this season. Deals can't be extended until the last year of the deal.

[Thumper]

I agree Thumper, but the only thing i dont understand is, why would Darcy and the FO then go and state publicly that they are not going to trade him? I don't disagree with anything you said, i just dont get that move.

Don't believe everything they say. They're using the media as a tool as well. It's a much safer route to go public saying "We're not going to trade one of our best players." than it is to say "we're going to trade Campbell."

Look at it this way....The reprecussions of publically admitting that they are in search of a trade automatically drops the return in a trade for the Sabres organization. Potential trade partners already know what a rock and a hard place the Sabres organization is in right now. No need to make it worse by almost begging to move him. It also tells the rest of the team "Hey, if you want out, we'll accommodate you." that is a recipe for disaster. It also tells the team that it's not going to bail on the season just to get an exrta pick or an extra prospect by moving him faster.

I hope they move him as soon as possible now. But that doesn't need to be known by anyone but Quinn, Regier, Ruff, and their trade partner.

That's why they've publically stated that they aren't moving him. Campbell used the media. That makes it even for the front office to use them as well.

[Thumper]

Great post.

The only question I have is this:

Should they have wrapped up Campbell last season? I guess so. But would he have accepted anything less than what he and his agent know (knew) what he'll get July 1st? There's not a chance in hell he would have.

unless I am mistaken (and I am 95% sure) they could not lock him until this season. Deals can't be extended until the last year of the deal.

Well if that's the case, it makes Campbell appear even more greedy and even more of a distraction to the team, does it not?

[bduff54]

it sucks but if i am campbell i am not signing either, i would always wait until to july 1st to see what i can get out there. Teams always overpay in the summer.

[Thumper]

it sucks but if i am campbell i am not signing either, i would always wait until to july 1st to see what i can get out there. Teams always overpay in the summer.

That's the thing. And it's okay for him to feel the same way. But really, why make it as big of a distraction as possible by talking to the media and causing the shit storm? I mean come on....It's not even a shit storm. It's a freakin' shit hurricane. Why do that to this organization that was so good to you for so long? Why throw it all into your teammates faces? They're all going to get asked about it now, with camera's and microphones shoved in their faces. Like they really want to talk about that kind of stuff, especially while they're reeling. I think it's a really terrible move by Campbell's camp. A very selfish move. Cuz he'd cash out huge whether or not he made it public. It's very puzzling to me.

Maybe it's just an easier way to promote the player that's heading into Free Agency. It's a way of telling every team in the league "Hey, I'll be out there. Figure out a way now to come get and me later" without getting in trouble for any under the-table-deals or back room agreements before his contract is actually up.

[unklechucky]

Soupy knows he'll command big bucks, so now hes keeping quiet till his payday. That being said, we need someone in this organization to step up at every level....from players to coaches to managment. We deserve better.

[dilbert]

Well if that's the case, it makes Campbell appear even more greedy and even more of a distraction to the team, does it not?

From the CBA, page 214:

"A club that wishes to sign a Player to an "extension" of an existing SPC, may only do so in the final year of such SPC."

http://www.nhlpa.com/CBA/2005CBA.asp

[jlpubarch]

It's only January, but it's hard to see another post beating this for post of the year.

How about longest?

[Thumper]

How about longest?

There was a time when a post that long was pretty normal for this board.

[bduff54]

agents make them do this, the more you hear about campbell the better people will think he is. Name recognition is huge, he went from a good defenseman to a guy that will be coveted. It' s a smart move for him but a crappy one for the team, i agree he is a dick.

[SHINEdown30]

Maybe he wants to stay here and hes telling the fans management is draggin their feet again. The fans get pissed. Tommy G and co. decide to give the big contract he wants. Soupy is making tons of dough.

[MauvaisSang]

I agree Thumper, but the only thing i dont understand is, why would Darcy and the FO then go and state publicly that they are not going to trade him? I don't disagree with anything you said, i just dont get that move.

Actually, I don't think that's what they said. Regier didn't rule it out. Darcy is notorious for keeping things close to the vest. If he gets the right offer, I'm sure he'll trade him.

People on this board are expecting a big return for Campbell...and I don't doubt one could be had. But keep in mind that his value is going to be diminished by the fact that he'd basically be a rental (albeit a very good one.) There's no way he's going to sign an extension before testing the waters, with the Sabres or anyone else....he'd be stupid to, as there's not another comparable player heading into free agency, which means he's going to be grossly overpayed on the open market.

[sukie]

There is a profuse sweating clinic down here in S Fla. Maybe a deal can be made with the Panthers... It almost assures an endorsement deal for carrot top.

[RBM]

One thing I have to remind myself every time a player sign a big contract is he knows he can make money by playing hockey and he knows that is the only way he can make money.
Players know they can not make a lot of money after their retirement.
They know they have to make enough money to live the rest of their lives in 10 to 15 years of their careers.
Yes some of players are really really greedy but I understand that because hockey is the only way they can make money out of and hockey is the only thing they know very well.

[ricogarion]

Being a Buffalo sports fan has gone from being hard work to needing therapy.

[Papaduke]

I would sign Soup to a nice long term contract an trade hiim to an NHL Wasteland like Miami where he can excessively sweat himself to death.

[jlpubarch]

I would sign Soup to a nice long term contract an trade hiim to an NHL Wasteland like Miami where he can excessively sweat himself to death.

This is how I felt.

Sign the guy anyway!!!! Just sign him!!!! Even if you don't want him, sign him!!!!

If you don't want to live with his contract, ship him out over the summer...

The team you trade him to will have to pay more because he is on a long-term deal...

Why I'm not the GM befounds me...

[SabreBill30]

If he really wanted to stay then this was the dumbest thing he has done. He is basically forcing the front office to trade him. I say, why wait.

[The Grin]

If I'm Darcy, I offer Campbell a contract a week or two prior to the trade deadline. If the doesn't take it, I trade him. Buffalo can't risk loosing another top player without some sort of compensation.

[Riley_Mason]

For one reason and one reason only. It's not so that he can just "concentrate on hockey" (real original, Bri...). It's not because his teammates are "distracted" by Campbell's buisness (although they sure are now. Well done, Captain Campbell. Way to lead with the 'C' on your chest).

Any time a player goes public with cutting off talks, all they're doing is keeping their eyes on the dollar signs. Campbell's got no problem going the Briere/Drury route. Don't be fooled. He could care less to stay here if the Sabres refuse to pay him the most. So he's saying "I want to stay here" going the Briere route. While he's also publicly cutting off talks, going the Drury route.

You know, I don't seem to remember the Sabres front office making any kind of important announcement when they opened talks with Campbell. Why would they? What Campbell has done is he's latched onto the impression that this front office created for itself last season when they became "the bad guy". The Sabres front office are the one's who don't know what they're doing, right? The players are the victims. Campbell is playing the part of "victim" just like his predecessors. Well, more power to him, I guess. He's going to get a ton of cash and this was just another calculated move by a player and his agent to drive the price up.

This organization drafted and developed Campbell. Lindy Ruff specifically deserves a ton of credit for his developement. This organization groomed him and took care of him financially. It's given him every chance to succeed at a high level. Now, his day in the sun is only a few months away and Campbell doesn't care about anything in the past. He's holding the Buffalo Sabres organization hostage now.

He's not the victim, people. The Sabres front office is the victim of drafting and developing too well. It started with not being able to take care of a few trade acquisitions. Now its ending with them not being able to afford to keep all of their drafted and developed talent. They've made mistakes along the way (hindsight is 20/20. But Afinogenov, Connolly, and Kalinin have not and will not live up too contractual potential). This isn't the same as Dumont or Grier. But you can absolutely lump this one in with McKee, Drury, and Briere.

Should they have wrapped up Campbell last season? I guess so. But would he have accepted anything less than what he and his agent know (knew) what he'll get July 1st? There's not a chance in hell he would have.

Campbell has used the media for his own personal benefit, and he's opened up another can of worms for the organization that molded him into a two time All-Star. He's created an incredible distraction for his teammates at possibly the worst possbile time (during a 9 game losing streak, with Vanek, the last guy to cash in big, busting in the first year of his gigantic contract). If I was Lindy Ruff, Campbell wouldn't be wearing any kind of letter ever again for the Sabres, starting tonight. Unless Campbell changes his mind (impossible), and decides to stick with this organization for a nice amount of money (which would not be maxed out), then I hope he gets dealt ASAP.

I appreciate Campbell's game. He's a rare talent, in the form of an offensive defenseman. There are maybe 10 guys in the league that can carry the puck the way he can from his position. But now his true colors have shown through. They're not blue and gold. Is anyone surprised? I hope not. But don't pin this one on the front office as well. They're in an impossible situation now. Campbell isn't worth 6.5 million per season to this organization. If they end up paying that for him to stay, it just leaves the door open for another developing player to pull the same stunt on the front office, and cash out somewhere else. If they trade Campbell, well, then they look like they're not committed to winning. I think it's all bullshit, no matter how it's sliced. Goodbye, Soupy.Great post.I lost a ton of respect for Campbell for this. And then saying he didn't or wouldn't talk about it when it was him who brought it up makes him look like a puppet of his agent.

[beTough54]

Also, notice how he just happened to say this just before Drury made his first appearance against the Sabres. What a ginger *******.

[kritter65]

Dammit, I finally get on the computer tonight, was gonna create a post to crucify Campbell for going public for the EXACT same reasons Thumper laid out, and here I find his thread.

Well done dude. I couldn't have come close to doing the great job you did. If I could multiple-thank you, I would. You should be head Moderator in SCI.

[Thumper]

One thing I have to remind myself every time a player sign a big contract is he knows he can make money by playing hockey and he knows that is the only way he can make money.
Players know they can not make a lot of money after their retirement.
They know they have to make enough money to live the rest of their lives in 10 to 15 years of their careers.
Yes some of players are really really greedy but I understand that because hockey is the only way they can make money out of and hockey is the only thing they know very well.

You're absolutely correct. But show me a guy that can't live comfortably for the rest of his life (and his kids life, and maybe even their kids life) with a 25 million dollar contract over 5 years.

It's not just about making enough money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives. It's a numbers game. It's a rankings game. It's a contest for contract size. It's a guaranteed lottery win, and Campbell's number is another winner from the Sabres organization this year. Last year it was Drury, Briere, Roy, and Vanek. The year prior is was Jay McKee. Which Sabre is next? Pominville? Miller? Who's after them? Stafford? MacArthur? As long as these guys get really good and stay really good, we may not be able to get used to rooting for them. Chances are, the roster turn over from year to year will be substantial. Unless someone can figure out who's going to be a great player earlier on into their careers, this is going to happen to at least one key player every year.

On a side note, thanks for all of the compliments regarding my inital post. I appreciate the kind words very much.

[CNYSabresFan]

What incentive is there for anyone to stay in Buffalo?

Location? (Living anywhere from Buffalo to Syracuse northward is a bitch in the winter)
A competitive team? (Except for last year, we usually just squeak into the playoffs or not at all)
The Fans? (The players don't give a shit about you and I)
The Management? (There is ALWAYS contract controversy or some other issue, you can bet on it)
A "Star" player(s)? WE DON'T HAVE ONE!
Loyalty? (See The Fans)
Money? (We don't pay unless we get backed into a corner, and then when we do pay the guy doesn't produce [Vanek] Why pay 10 million a year [for 25 points at mid-year] when you can pay some scrub 500k and get the same production?)

Sure, as Fans, we may be pissed at Campbell - but he isn't doing anything any one of us wouldn't do in the same circumstance. Think about it...

[Schony]

At the risk of being flamed for taking an opposite point of view to most here here I'm going to ask exactly how Campbell can be accused of taking this whole thing public? He didn't call a press conference to announce he's done talking contract - this developed from a locker room interview with all the questions, including the state of contract talks, initiated by Paul Hamilton and Adam Benigni. I just had another listen to be sure I hadn't missed anything but it begins with PH asking whether being named to the AS team for a second time makes it harder for the Sabres to sign him - BC fumbles around a little and says he dosn't really want to talk about the contract anymore, its been a distraction and the team needs to concentrate on winning games. AB then asks if can comment on the progress of the contract talks - BC confirms there have been talks but he'd rather wait til the end of the year to get something done - and he does say he's confident something can get worked out then. A couple more questions about whether it hangs over his head and if there is pressure from other players to wait (to which he says yes and no) before PH asks very specifically if BC has instructed his agent not to conduct any more talks til after the season to which he replies yes and there is too much at stake with the team to be have this going on.

In my mind, giving honest answers to specific questions does not construe "taking it public". Sure he could have lied or ducked the question but even though the Sabres stated position last year was not to negotiate during the season, perhaps if Briere and Drury had made it this clear that they wanted to see what the FA market would pay them the organization could have developed a little better plan.

[Thumper]

What incentive is there for anyone to stay in Buffalo?

Location? (Living anywhere from Buffalo to Syracuse northward is a bitch in the winter)
A competitive team? (Except for last year, we usually just squeak into the playoffs or not at all)
The Fans? (The players don't give a shit about you and I)
The Management? (There is ALWAYS contract controversy or some other issue, you can bet on it)
A "Star" player(s)? WE DON'T HAVE ONE!
Loyalty? (See The Fans)
Money? (We don't pay unless we get backed into a corner, and then when we do pay the guy doesn't produce [Vanek] Why pay 10 million a year [for 25 points at mid-year] when you can pay some scrub 500k and get the same production?)

Sure, as Fans, we may be pissed at Campbell - but he isn't doing anything any one of us wouldn't do in the same circumstance. Think about it...

Location - I don't know what percentage of NHL players are from or close to Ontario. But there are a ton. Buffalo could be viewed as the next best thing for a lot of those Canadian players outside of playing for Leafs, Habs, or Sens. And an organization like the Leafs has more problems than the Sabres have had since bankruptcy.

A competitive team - Since the birth of their existence, in 36 seasons, the Buffalo Sabres have gone to the playoffs an astounding 27 times. So your information is inaccurate.

A Star Player - So we have no All-Stars? We've had plenty the last few years. That's part of the reason we can't keep many of them.

Money - This organization has given many, many, many players the right environment (worth while success) to cash out big time when the time comes. So I don't agree with that point either.

The Management - No other organizations have problems as bad as Buffalo? You need to check your facts again. Most NHL franchises can't even get out of their own way.

[Fallsnative]

http://calsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Hockey/2008/01/17/4777680-sun.html

Good article on the Campbell situation by Scott Morrison of the Calgary Sun.

[Thumper]

At the risk of being flamed for taking an opposite point of view to most here here I'm going to ask exactly how Campbell can be accused of taking this whole thing public? He didn't call a press conference to announce he's done talking contract - this developed from a locker room interview with all the questions, including the state of contract talks, initiated by Paul Hamilton and Adam Benigni. I just had another listen to be sure I hadn't missed anything but it begins with PH asking whether being named to the AS team for a second time makes it harder for the Sabres to sign him - BC fumbles around a little and says he dosn't really want to talk about the contract anymore, its been a distraction and the team needs to concentrate on winning games. AB then asks if can comment on the progress of the contract talks - BC confirms there have been talks but he'd rather wait til the end of the year to get something done - and he does say he's confident something can get worked out then. A couple more questions about whether it hangs over his head and if there is pressure from other players to wait (to which he says yes and no) before PH asks very specifically if BC has instructed his agent not to conduct any more talks til after the season to which he replies yes and there is too much at stake with the team to be have this going on.

In my mind, giving honest answers to specific questions does not construe "taking it public". Sure he could have lied or ducked the question but even though the Sabres stated position last year was not to negotiate during the season, perhaps if Briere and Drury had made it this clear that they wanted to see what the FA market would pay them the organization could have developed a little better plan.

I like your point of view. You make your case very well. But I'll say it again.....If it's "distractions to the team" he's worried about, he would have dodged answering the question completely. People are actually capable of doing that. All it takes is "No comment." If the question is asked again, or asked in a different way "No comment." is just about the least distracting answer the man could give.

I don't care if Campbell said that something can be worked out after the season. Of course it can worked out. If the Sabres either match, or out-bid the highest bidder. So now he's not a liar either....But let's not kid ourselves. If this gets to the end of the season (it will get to the end of the season) Campbell is as good as gone.

Yes, the front office should have and actually did generate a new plan for signing players to contract extensions. They wrapped up Hecht during this season. That wasn't a different plan? They couldn't even talk contract with Campbell's camp until this season. Well, they've been trying to come to an agreement, and Campbell pulls a Drury. The front office has been trying to reach an agreement with one of their better players during the season for the second time this season. They DID change their plan since the Briere/Drury fiasco. You can't blame them for not.

He took it public and created more of a distraction for everyone involved than if he didn't go public. I appreciate your point of you, but you can't ignore that fact.

[Schony]

No question its a distraction now.....I just don't see how he would be able to get around this publicly. Even a "no comment" would lead to all kinds of speculation - most of it bad. I agree the team has a supposed different approach this year although I would question if Jochen was a priority over Campbell.

I look at what other comparable players have signed for in the last year coupled with the fact that BC is currently the 100th highest paid defenseman in the NHL and the number range seems obvious.

I don't know what the Sabres are saving the salary $$ for - if BC is the next guy to walk or get moved for little immediate return I don't see any reason Miller would even consider resigning here - you can see he's not the type of guy who will be just flat out bought. Detroit has set theselves up very nicely to acquire a top FA goaltender after next year and I'll just bet you could insert Miller in Drury's interview talking about what it was like being a kid attending Wings games.

[Thumper]

No question its a distraction now.....I just don't see how he would be able to get around this publicly. Even a "no comment" would lead to all kinds of speculation - most of it bad. I agree the team has a supposed different approach this year although I would question if Jochen was a priority over Campbell.

I look at what other comparable players have signed for in the last year coupled with the fact that BC is currently the 100th highest paid defenseman in the NHL and the number range seems obvious.

I don't know what the Sabres are saving the salary $$ for - if BC is the next guy to walk or get moved for little immediate return I don't see any reason Miller would even consider resigning here - you can see he's not the type of guy who will be just flat out bought. Detroit has set theselves up very nicely to acquire a top FA goaltender after next year and I'll just bet you could insert Miller in Drury's interview talking about what it was like being a kid attending Wings games.

Well it's obvious Hecht is a more affordable player. It was easier to work out a contract with him because it's less money changing hands. That doesn't mean he is or was a higher priority than Campbell. But the positives that Hecht brings to the team, in my opinion, are at least on par with Campbell's. Both players play special teams, PK and PP. Both players are above average offensively and defensively for their positions. It's just that Campbell plays 25 minutes a game and is an All-Star defensman. But Hecht can play any forward position. That adds to his value.

Campbell expect to make over 6 million per season. I'm speculating on that... But where do we draw the line? Is it unrealistic for Campbell to pull in 7 million per season from someone? I don't think that's unrealistic. So that's probably where his expectations are. Will the Sabres be in the wrong for not paying that?

As for your Miller point......I sure hope that doesn't happen. But it's a realistic scenario. If I was a season away from hitting free agency for the first time in my career, the Sabres would be at the top of my list. If you have a chance to play for your all-time favorite team, why wouldn't you try to make that happen?