Illegal Parents+Born Here=No Citizenship

[comericatigers]

Now this is what I am talking about and have been waiting for! Huckster for '08. Obviously not the only election issue, but....


Huckabee vows to defy birthright citizenship

Mike Huckabee wants to amend the Constitution to prevent children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens from automatically becoming American citizens, according to his top immigration surrogate — a radical step no other major presidential candidate has embraced.

Mr. Huckabee, who won last week's Republican Iowa caucuses, promised Minuteman Project founder James Gilchrist that he would force a test case to the Supreme Court to challenge birthright citizenship, and would push Congress to pass a 28th Amendment to the Constitution to remove any doubt.

The former Arkansas governor thinks the case against U.S. Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean was railroaded, Mr. Gilchrist said. Ramos and Compean are serving lengthy prison sentences for shooting a fleeing drug-smuggling suspect in the buttocks.

"I would make it my first act as president to pardon agents Ramos and Compean," Mr. Gilchrist said Mr. Huckabee told him. "I regret that they have spent yet another Christmas locked up in a windowless cell like animals and unable to be free and with their families."

Mr. Gilchrist, who campaigned with Mr. Huckabee in Iowa last week, said Mr. Huckabee explained his positions in a half-hour conversation on the campaign trail.

"I read back my notes to him twice and I told him I did not want to put words in his mouth," said Mr. Gilchrist, who also issued a press release from the Minuteman Project detailing Mr. Huckabee's positions. "The guy looked me right in the eye."

Campaign spokeswoman Kirsten Fedewa said Mr. Huckabee intends to review the case against Ramos and Compean as one of his first acts as president, but she didn't otherwise dispute Mr. Gilchrist's quotes as provided by The Washington Times.

Miss Fedewa said Mr. Huckabee and Mr. Gilchrest are "united by a mutual desire to end illegal immigration and are political allies toward that end."

Mr. Huckabee has defended his policies on illegal aliens while he was Arkansas governor. He pressed for illegal aliens to gain college tuition benefits, complained about federal immigration raids in his state and declined to have state police enforce immigration laws, although the state legislature gave him the authority to do so.

Mr. Huckabee now has adopted one of the strictest immigration platforms of any campaign. He has proposed a policy requiring all illegal aliens to return home and apply for immigration through legal channels.

His new position on birthright citizenship also puts him alone among the candidates. Many legal scholars say the 14th Amendment, which says "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States," grants automatic citizenship to any baby born in the U.S., except in diplomatic cases.

Members of Congress have never tried to change birthright citizenship by law.

Mr. Huckabee told Mr. Gilchrist that he supports a Supreme Court test case but also would encourage Congress to introduce a constitutional amendment to exclude from automatic citizenship any children born to illegal aliens.

Mr. Gilchrist endorsed Mr. Huckabee last month and has campaigned with him ever since. Mr. Gilchrist said Mr. Huckabee is the best candidate on the immigration issue still in the race and who has a chance of being the presidential nominee.

Others calling for stricter immigration policy have accused Mr. Gilchrist of opportunism and backing a bad candidate.

Brook Young, who runs ImmigrationWatchdog.com, produced a Web video criticizing Mr. Gilchrist's endorsement. Mr. Gilchrist fired back last week with an e-mail that appeared to threaten to publicly accuse the man of being a pedophile.

"I have been hearing on the blogs, over the telephone and through e-mails that you are a pedophile, Brook. Will that accusation also reach the news media soon?" Mr. Gilchrist wrote. "If the blogs and e-mails say so, then aren't you guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt?"

Mr. Young posted the e-mail on his Web site and said he had to go public because Mr. Gilchrist has exceeded the bounds of the immigration debate, "to promote and actually lie about Mike Huckabee and his immigration plan and his past record. Now we feel like we have to say something."

"It's crazy," he said. "You get e-mails from this guy and it's like this guy is truly out of his mind."

Mr. Huckabee has promised to run a clean campaign. William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration Political Action Committee, said Mr. Gilchrist's campaigning reflects badly on Mr. Huckabee.

"He's an intrinsic front-row part of the campaign who's sending out e-mails to people who oppose Huckabee to try to lie about them," said Mr. Gheen, who has tangled with Mr. Gilchrist and is trying to block Mr. Huckabee from winning the Republican nomination.

Mr. Huckabee's campaign said the governor was not available to comment on the e-mail exchange.

Mr. Gilchrist said he was not accusing Mr. Young of pedophilia, but making a point about making up charges.

He also said he was not speaking on behalf of Mr. Huckabee when he sent the e-mail, and that the criticism pushed him to the limit.

"That was a private e-mail and what I was doing was setting up an example: 'This is what you've done to me, I'm not going to do this to you, but how would you like it if I did this to you?' " Mr. Gilchrist said.

http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080108/NATION/311698216/1001

[kybillsfan]

Then I suppose you are for Dr Paul as well? He believes the same pretty much.

[matthew94]

Huckabee is just stealing Dr. Paul's more popular positions. He did the same thing with 'no IRS'

I'll take the guy who has believed it for more than a month

[sukie]

As do I.

[comericatigers]

Then I suppose you are for Dr Paul as well? He believes the same pretty much.

The difference is Huckabee has a chance.

[kybillsfan]

The difference is Huckabee has a chance. I wouldnt count on that, besides this is the primary, you are supposed to support whoever comes closest to your beliefs not whoever has the best chance.

[coryjd]

Huckabee has been coming on strong.

[coryjd]

Boy - Southern California would be pretty much wiped off the map if this came to fruition. I love it!

[nehemiah]

this thread will make clear who actually gives a crap about the Constitution.

which side are you on?

roll call.

as for nehemiah, he thinks this is a really, really, really, stupid idea.

[35Pete]

this thread will make clear who actually gives a crap about the Constitution.

which side are you on?

roll call.

as for nehemiah, he thinks this is a really, really, really, stupid idea.

Ron Paul. Because his position is EXACTLY that he'll push momentum for a CONSTITUTIONAL amendment revoking birthright citizenship.

This is what I mean when I say the party clowns are clueless about Ron Paul's positions. :)

[coryjd]

this thread will make clear who actually gives a crap about the Constitution.

which side are you on?

roll call.

as for nehemiah, he thinks this is a really, really, really, stupid idea.

Constitution???? What Constitution??? Since when do you Dems actually follow that????

[ckg68]

Constitution???? What Constitution??? Since when do you Dems actually follow that????

Why don't you ask the Republicans,cory?

Under all the braying about "preserving our rights",they've actually done quite the opposite.

The terrorists couldn't have asked for a better victory if they tried.

[matthew94]

Haha, I love it when people pretend that amending the constitution is unconstitutional! Nehemiah fell into the same trap as Russert.

[JMNY83]

This I agree with. My wife is a US Resident and a Mexican Citizen but my kids were born here. I think that is ok becuase my wife is not illegal. I live 3 miles from the boarder [Mexico] and I see a lot of abuse with this. People will sneak across and have their kids here for 2 reasons. One is they get better health care and two is their kids that become citizens. This works out for them because it helps them into becoming citizens sometime in their life and also for government benefits. I have met tons of people here who live in Mexico and give an address of a friend or family member that lives in America as the address of their newborn US citizen. So then they can get medicaid,food stamps and WIC. They will live in Mexico but travel the few miles to come here and shop for groceries and get medical attention. This is costing us the tax payers a lot of money and also hurts people like me who needs medicaid temporarily until I graduate college and get a career with benefits. I have to fight to get medicaid everytime I apply for it and it is bs because I am actually using it for it's purpose, "to provide temporary help". Not live off it.

[nehemiah]

Haha, I love it when people pretend that amending the constitution is unconstitutional! Nehemiah fell into the same trap as Russert.i love it when people have no clue about how to actually amend the Constitution.

why don't you explain how a president amends the Constitution?

thanks.

[35Pete]

i love it when people have no clue about how to actually amend the Constitution.

why don't you explain how a president amends the Constitution?

thanks.

Show me where I said that President Paul would amend the constitution?

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/27257.jpg

[pigpen65]

why don't you explain how a president amends the Constitution?


A stormy night, a flashlight and a bottle of white out apparently. After Paul is elected they may as well just throw the original out and hand a blank notebook to him so he can write us a new one.

[35Pete]

A stormy night, a flashlight and a bottle of white out apparently. After Paul is elected they may as well just throw the original out and hand a blank notebook to him so he can write us a new one.

You seem to be running with a fallacious and wrongful assertion made by nehemiah.

Now nehemiah. Are you going to show where someone said Paul will amend the constitution? I myself was VERY careful with the wording of my post.

[sukie]

Show me where I said that President Paul would amend the constitution?



Pete what is wrong with you today...?

RP wants to end Birthright Citizenship... correct?
RP would have to seek a constitutional ammendment to do that in order to remain a constitutionalist...correct?

Who cares if you said it or not? Your name isn't in the thread title... correct?

[nehemiah]

You seem to be running with a fallacious and wrongful assertion made by nehemiah.

Now nehemiah. Are you going to show where someone said Paul will amend the constitution? I myself was VERY careful with the wording of my post.1) thread about mike huckabee changing the constitution
2) mike huckabee = ron paul (on this issue)
3) ron paul changing the constitution

analogous to:
1) if a then b
2) a=c
3) if c then b

it's all very logical, pete. not a strawman around. so please explain how ron paul is gonna amend the constitution.

:rockon:

[35Pete]

1) thread about mike huckabee changing the constitution
2) mike huckabee = ron paul (on this issue)
3) ron paul changing the constitution

analogous to:
1) if a then b
2) a=c
3) if c then b

it's all very logical, pete. not a strawman around. so please explain how ron paul is gonna amend the constitution.

:rockon:
He's not going to personally amend the constitution and you and I both know that. What he can and will do is use his bully pulpit to press forward to having the states or congress propose an amendment to the constitution. From there, given the sufficient Yays allow the process to move forward, the proposal is sent to the states for ratification.

THAT's logical. And I saw the opening statement. Perhaps aqua is right on wording in only that disengenous people sometimes mimick the behavior Washington spinmeister cockroaches and play on words in order to make "some" point.

[nehemiah]

Mike Huckabee (Ron Paul) wants to amend the Constitution to prevent children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens from automatically becoming American citizens, according to his top immigration surrogate — a radical step no other major presidential candidate has embraced.

Mr. Huckabee ("Doctor" Paul), who won last week's Republican Iowa caucuses, promised Minuteman Project founder James Gilchrist that he would force a test case to the Supreme Court to challenge birthright citizenship, and would push Congress to pass a 28th Amendment to the Constitution to remove any doubt.


little bit more than a speech from the bully pulpit, eh?

[35Pete]

Mike Huckabee (Ron Paul) wants to amend the Constitution to prevent children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens from automatically becoming American citizens, according to his top immigration surrogate — a radical step no other major presidential candidate has embraced.

Mr. Huckabee ("Doctor" Paul), who won last week's Republican Iowa caucuses, promised Minuteman Project founder James Gilchrist that he would force a test case to the Supreme Court to challenge birthright citizenship, and would push Congress to pass a 28th Amendment to the Constitution to remove any doubt.


little bit more than a speech from the bully pulpit, eh?

Not really honest nehe, you are being.

------

I WANT to amend the constitution.

How do you read that?

Does that mean that I have to word it as such to avoid play on words?

"I propose that we start a grass roots movement to bring about either a vote of 2/3's of both houses of congress to pass a resolution to be sent to the states, upon which, if a vote of 3/4th in the affirmative of the state legislatures that an amendment to the United States Constitution shall be added. Also, to avoid confusion and further misrepresentation of my idea, I must also include that the I would also advocate the alternative path that 2/3s of the states vote for a call initiating a constitutional convention with a subsequent proposal to add said amendment to the United States Constitution granted that approval of 3/4ths of the statehouses is obtained".

Or does it mean?

"Haa haa!! Pete wants to go up to capital hill, pull out his sharpie and write in a new amendment".

Really? Really?

S-T-R-A-W-M-A-N

[matthew94]

I accuse Nehemiah of being dumb on purpose. He's now being as wooden literal in his interpretation of posts as fundamentalists are when they read the book of Revelation.

[nehemiah]

nehemiah reads the actual words.

the rest just see what they want to see.

don't oppress nehemiah.

[coryjd]

Why don't you ask the Republicans,cory?

Under all the braying about "preserving our rights",they've actually done quite the opposite.

The terrorists couldn't have asked for a better victory if they tried.

Better victory????? Hmmm....I remember security analysts claiming there were going to be more terrorist attacks on the U.S., following 9-11. Have we seen any? Nope! That only seems like a victory for the U.S.

None of my rights have been infringed upon.

[Green Lantern]

Better victory????? Hmmm....I remember security analysts claiming there were going to be more terrorist attacks on the U.S., following 9-11. Have we seen any? Nope! That only seems like a victory for the U.S.

None of my rights have been infringed upon.

Sure they have. Some have been taken away and given back to you as privileges. You just do not care, or have not noticed, because no one has revoked your privileges yet.

[sukie]

which ones? the Mexico-Carribean Passport requirement?

[35Pete]

Sure they have. Some have been taken away and given back to you as priviledges. You just do not care, or have not noticed, because no one has revoked your priviledges yet.

One of the best PRS posts in a while.

[sukie]

Kinda ambiguous... Lacking substance but quite libertarian in tone.

[Green Lantern]

One of the best PRS posts in a while.

I'm typing on a full stomach.

[35Pete]

Kinda ambiguous... Lacking substance but quite libertarian in tone.

No, not at all. I thought it was quite concise. If you've been paying attention to events of the past few years.

[35Pete]

Sure they have. Some have been taken away and given back to you as priviledges. You just do not care, or have not noticed, because no one has revoked your priviledges yet.

Freedom is a privilege.

[sukie]

What liberties are now privies?

[coryjd]

One of the best PRS posts in a while.

Not really. If you think listening in on phone conversations, reading emails, and monitoring the public is an infringement of freedom, guess what - you better be looking over your shoulder. My quality of life and lifestyle have not changed in the least bit. I have not changed anything I do, and it has not effected me, therefore - no freedoms being taken away.

[35Pete]

What liberties are now privies?

Fourth amendment is a good start. NSA wiretapping, internet monitoring, homeland security database.

True story. In fact he told me yesterday. My buddy Maroof (who I have mentioned here once before in the past.. the guy that was detained at Miami International) is from Bangledesh. He has permanent residency status. Married, two cute kids. Very passive and nice guy.

Well he told me that the FBI came over to his house. Two agents to question him. When I asked he said that they were very very cool. Said that Homeland Security sent them so they had to go out to his house. Asked a few mundane questions and then joked about how they didn't really want to do this but that's their orders. He said they were kinda apologetic. And they left without any issue.

That didn't bother Maroof as much as how he perceives his neighbors now look at him. That, he said, really bothers him.

BTW. Maroof is Hindu.

So, are you going to comment and engage or just another question?

[Green Lantern]

Not really. If you think listening in on phone conversations, reading emails, and monitoring the public is an infringement of freedom, guess what - you better be looking over your shoulder. My quality of life and lifestyle have not changed in the least bit. I have not changed anything I do, and it has not effected me, therefore - no freedoms being taken away.

That something has not effected you is not the measure of whether something has happened or not.

[35Pete]

And if you don't believe me I'll call him this weekend on my Nextel phone in front of you with speakerphone on and just ask a question in passing about it, OK?

[sukie]

I still have the same privies I had before. Assuming privacy wether it be 1960 or today doesn't mean it was there. The illusion of dialing up whomever I chose to call whenever I want without the NSA finding out about it or not finding out about it doesn't change MY freedom to do so.

[sukie]

That something has not effected you is not the measure of whether something has happened or not.

So if no one is effected then it still exists?

[35Pete]

That something has not effected you is not the measure of whether something has happened or not.

The comment that you are responding to is so unbelievable that I almost would have ignored it.

So, do what you want to me as long as I see no tangible immediate impact? Cory, is that what you are saying? And if it happens to others then **** em?

[Green Lantern]

So if no one is effected then it still exists?

HE has not been effected, so far as he knows; not no one. 'No one' is your choice of words.

[sukie]

Who has it happened to?

[35Pete]

I still have the same privies I had before. Assuming privacy wether it be 1960 or today doesn't mean it was there. The illusion of dialing up whomever I chose to call whenever I want without the NSA finding out about it or not finding out about it doesn't change MY freedom to do so.

Yeah, and if you were a homie in the masser's slave village with a leg iron on that wouldn't change YOUR FREEDOM to travel about the plantation.

[Green Lantern]

Who has it happened to?

Everyone.

[sukie]

HE has not been effected, so far as he knows; not no one. 'No one' is your choice of words.

I expanded on the notion of "I" have not been effected... you said it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So if no one is effected... does it still exist?

[sukie]

Everyone.

Kinda broad stroking it. I'm more pissed that I cannot get cuban cigars then a potential violation of my liberties.

[35Pete]

I still have the same privies I had before. Assuming privacy wether it be 1960 or today doesn't mean it was there. The illusion of dialing up whomever I chose to call whenever I want without the NSA finding out about it or not finding out about it doesn't change MY freedom to do so.

Uhh. One more thing.

It's the right to privacy, not the right to a phone call.

[sukie]

You never had the right to privacy pertaining to phone calls. A warranted search of phone records is a lawful breach of your privacy. Legal or not.

[Green Lantern]

I expanded on the notion of "I" have not been effected... you said it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So if no one is effected... does it still exist?

Cory thinks his rights are still there because he has not noticed anyone 'violating' them (though you cannot technically violate a right that was taken away) and so he says nothing has changed. Quite possibly nothing has changed for him, and he may never have anything change for him, but that is irrelevant to the facts that his right was taken by law and handed back to him as a privilege which could be overridden anytime the people who now hold the power decide to do so.

[coryjd]

The comment that you are responding to is so unbelievable that I almost would have ignored it.

So, do what you want to me as long as I see no tangible immediate impact? Cory, is that what you are saying? And if it happens to others then **** em?

What exactly is IT that is happening to others Pete? If they have nothing to hide, who cares????

[Green Lantern]

What exactly is IT that is happening to others Pete? If they have nothing to hide, who cares????

maybe we should start another thread and get out of this one since we are off topic.

[coryjd]

maybe we should start another thread and get out of this one since we are off topic.

True dat.

[sukie]

Start one cory.

[35Pete]

Yeah, please do Cory.

[coryjd]

moved to new thread

[pmoon6]

Uhh. One more thing.

It's the right to privacy, not the right to a phone call.Ha Ha ha, If you are engaging in illegal activities, you rarely use a phone.

Until now.

Untraceable cell phones.

The game continues.

[uppy]

"liberties being violated "

:rofl:

Pete have you lost YOUR rights agian....my God it happens almost every week.

Duct tape them to your Ron Ross Paul poster in the bedroom that way you will

know were they are.I have never lost my liberties I keep a close eye on them.