The time is near...Iran is pushing its luck

[uppy]

Iran wants war

WASHINGTON (AP) - Iranian boats harassed and provoked three American Navy ships in the strategic Strait of Hormuz, threatening to explode the vessels, U.S. officials said Monday.
In the most serious such incident in years, U.S. forces were on the verge of firing on the Iranian boats during the incident early Sunday, when the boats—believed to be from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's navy—turned and moved away, a Pentagon official said.

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman called it a "serious incident." Another U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, called it "the most serious provocation of this sort that we've seen yet."




http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8U16UGG0&show_article=1

[Sparx]

You getting the wings and beer ready?

[35Pete]

:rofl:

Gulf of Tonkin anyone?

[uppy]

:rofl:

Gulf of Tonkin anyone?

The USS Cole

http://www.radioactivechief.com/graphics/USS%20Cole%20hole.jpg


Or was that fake too ?

[FamousAmos]

Aw Jeez, I'm not interested.

Already got roped in the Iraq war. Don't need this one too

[dilbert]

Do you really think our military is capable of this act right now?

Are you signing up for the draft in this war?

[comericatigers]

The USS Cole

http://www.radioactivechief.com/graphics/USS%20Cole%20hole.jpg


Or was that fake too ?

We can't fight a war with Iran, but I do like the USS Cole take. It's funny how Clinton never hunted down the people that did this.

[35Pete]

The USS Cole

http://www.radioactivechief.com/graphics/USS%20Cole%20hole.jpg


Or was that fake too ?

The Cole has nothing to do with this false flag operation. Only the morons are going to fall for this Uppy.

[uppy]

Aw Jeez, I'm not interested.

Already got roped in the Iraq war. Don't need this one too

The "Iraq war" was "won" five years ago....the war on terror is still in play.

take the over in this one son

or do a group huggy with the demo talking points.

[uppy]

The Cole has nothing to do with this false flag operation. Only the morons are going to fall for this Uppy.

The Country always lies to cult people

Bahahahhahahaha

[bozman949]

All we need is for the government to force NGA imagery analysts to come up with some evidence of trucks with nook u lear labs attached on the hitch and we're in.

[TheGoodShepherd]

We can't fight a war with Iran, but I do like the USS Cole take. It's funny how Clinton never hunted down the people that did this.

Got proof of that?

[uppy]

Got proof of that?


Let's introduce another analogy to try to help the mental midget understand


I guess when Ahmadinejad says Israel should be wiped off the earth he's talking about something else

You have to hand it to the tinfoil crowd, though. On one hand, they believe that the evil

doers possess so much power that they can goad or provoke an entirely autonomous

rube to attack them, exactly as they had planned it. To make sure the rube succeeds.

hahahahahahah

Vote ron paul !!!!!!

[Green Lantern]

Let's introduce another analogy to try to help the mental midget understand


I guess when Ahmadinejad says Israel should be wiped off the earth he's talking about something else

You have to hand it to the tinfoil crowd, though. On one hand, they believe that the evil

doers possess so much power that they can goad or provoke an entirely autonomous

rube to attack them, exactly as they had planned it. To make sure the rube succeeds.

hahahahahahah

Vote ron paul !!!!!!

Now you are mistyping a misinterpretation.

[comericatigers]

Got proof of that?

Evidence of al-Qaeda's involvement was inconclusive for months after the attack. The staff of the 9-11 Commission found that al-Qaeda's direction of the bombing was under investigation but "increasingly clear" on November 11, 2000. It was an "unproven assumption" in late November. By December 21 the CIA had made a "preliminary judgment" that "al Qaeda appeared to have supported the attack," with no "definitive conclusion."[14]

Accounts thereafter are varied and somewhat contradictory.

Then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice told the Commission that when the administration took office on January 20, 2001, "We knew that there was speculation that the 2000 Cole attack was al Qaeda... We received, I think, on January 25th the same assessment [of al-Qaeda responsibility]. It was preliminary. It was not clear."

Newsweek reported that on the following day, "six days after Bush took office," the FBI "believed they had clear evidence tying the bombers to Al Qaeda."[15] The Washington Post reported that, on February 9, Vice President Dick Cheney was briefed on bin Laden's responsibility "without hedge."[16]

These conclusions are contrasted by testimony of key figures before the 9/11 Commission, summarized in the 9/11 Commission Report. Former CIA Director George Tenet testified (page 196) that he "believed he laid out what was knowable early in the investigation, and that this evidence never really changed until after 9/11."[17] The report suggests (pages 201 - 202) that the official assessment was similarly vague until at least March of 2001:

On January 25, Tenet briefed the President on the Cole investigation. The written briefing repeated for top officials of the new administration what the CIA had told the Clinton White House in November. This included the "preliminary judgment" that al Qaeda was responsible, with the caveat that no evidence had yet been found that Bin Ladin himself ordered the attack... in March 2001, the CIA's briefing slides for Rice were still describing the CIA's "preliminary judgment" that a "strong circumstantial case" could be made against al Qaeda but noting that the CIA continued to lack "conclusive information on external command and control" of the attack.[17]

According to Dr. Rice, the decision not to respond militarily to the Cole bombing was President Bush's. She said he "made clear to us that he did not want to respond to al Qaeda one attack at a time. He told me he was 'tired of swatting flies.'" The administration instead began work on a new strategy to eliminate al-Qaeda.[18]

On November 3, 2002, the CIA fired a AGM-114 Hellfire missile from a Predator UAV at a vehicle carrying Abu Ali al-Harithi, a suspected planner of the bombing plot. Also in the vehicle was Ahmed Hijazi, a U.S. citizen. Both were killed. This operation was carried out on Yemeni soil.

On September 29, 2004, a Yemeni judge sentenced Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri and Jamal al-Badawi to death for their roles in the bombing. Al-Nashiri, believed to be the operation's mastermind, is currently being held by the U.S. at Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[19] Al-Badawi, in Yemeni custody, denounced the verdict as "an American one." Four others were sentenced to prison terms of five to 10 years for their involvement, including one Yemeni who had videotaped the attack.

On February 3, 2006, 23 suspected or convicted Al-Qaeda members escaped from jail in Yemen. This number included 13 who were convicted of the USS Cole bombings and the bombing of the French tanker Limburg in 2002. Among those who reportedly escaped was Al-Badawi. Al-Qaeda's Yemeni number two Abu Assem al-Ahdal may also be among those now on the loose.[20]

Wikinews has related news:
Conspirator of USS Cole attack freed from prisonOn October 17, 2007, al-Badawi surrendered to Yemeni authorities as part of an agreement with al-Qaeda militants. Following his surrender, Yemeni authorities released him in return for a pledge not to engage in any violent or al-Qaeda-related activity, despite a $5 million reward for his capture. Two other escapees remained at large.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing#Consequences_and_after-effects

[K-Gun]

Let's introduce another analogy to try to help the mental midget understand


I guess when Ahmadinejad says Israel should be wiped off the earth he's talking about something else

You have to hand it to the tinfoil crowd, though. On one hand, they believe that the evil

doers possess so much power that they can goad or provoke an entirely autonomous

rube to attack them, exactly as they had planned it. To make sure the rube succeeds.

hahahahahahah

Vote ron paul !!!!!!

wiped off the map. BIG difference.

[Green Lantern]

wiped off the map. BIG difference.

All uppy hears is 'durkha, durkha, mohammed, jihad'.

[coryjd]

All uppy hears is 'durkha, durkha, mohammed, jihad'.

ROFL!

[K-Gun]

baklava

[uppy]

wiped off the map. BIG difference.


Bullshit,and you know it....snould I play the chimpie card and call you a racist

becaues you have a opinion that is differnt then me ? Or are you just happy playing the semantices.




Israel should be wiped off the earth

He was just joking right ?


Just out of curiousity, how would you characterize the people we are fighting?

[mark3274]

Iran wants war

WASHINGTON (AP) - Iranian boats harassed and provoked three American Navy ships in the strategic Strait of Hormuz, threatening to explode the vessels, U.S. officials said Monday.
In the most serious such incident in years, U.S. forces were on the verge of firing on the Iranian boats during the incident early Sunday, when the boats—believed to be from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's navy—turned and moved away, a Pentagon official said.

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman called it a "serious incident." Another U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, called it "the most serious provocation of this sort that we've seen yet."




http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8U16UGG0&show_article=1

noone cares there will be no war with iran lmao.

[Shama-Lama Ding Dong]

Let's introduce another analogy to try to help the mental midget understand


I guess when Ahmadinejad says Israel should be wiped off the earth he's talking about something else
hahahahahahah

Vote ron paul !!!!!!

Ahmedinejad is just trying to win reelection. He's no worse than you in that respect; Israel is Iran's liberals.

[JMNY83]

:rofl:

Gulf of Tonkin anyone?

I was thinking the same exact thing.

[JMNY83]

Sorry about the triple post my browser was acting up. Could u delete them for me.Thanks.

[35Pete]

<a href="http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955"><b>'Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007'.</b></a>

I guess there will be no protesting this next war. Civil protest has been made illegal.

[ckg68]

You want this war,Up?

Then you go down and reenlist,and you fight this war YOURSELF since you're got such a jones for it....

[35Pete]

You want this war,Up?

Then you go down and reenlist,and you fight this war YOURSELF since you're got such a jones for it....

Fat chance.

[Green Lantern]

<a href="http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955"><b>'Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007'.</b></a>

I guess there will be no protesting this next war. Civil protest has been made illegal.

Did you read the link you provided?

Personally, I like that it is Bill 1955; kind of a McCarthyesque number.

[35Pete]

Did you read the link you provided?

Personally, I like that it is Bill 1955; kind of a McCarthyesque number.

Yes I did. Define "radical". Define "force". Is the commission going to do this?

[Green Lantern]

Yes I did. Define "radical". Define "force". Is the commission going to do this?

I suppose they will. It is an exploratory commission. You may find it offensive but if there were another attack, the government would get creamed from other quarters for not being pro-active.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[shiva2999]

I saw the video.

Fishing boats vs warships.

:rofl:

[35Pete]

I suppose they will. It is an exploratory commission. You may find it offensive but if there were another attack, the government would get creamed from other quarters for not being pro-active.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

A commission to study speech and organization. You'd have to be a ****ing idiot to actually believe "damned if they don't". Don't you agree?

[35Pete]

I saw the video.

Fishing boats vs warships.

:rofl:

AMEN.

Look at CNN shamelessly peddling that shit without ever questioning it.

[35Pete]

A commission to study speech and organization. You'd have to be a ****ing idiot to actually believe "damned if they don't". Don't you agree?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/35Pete/hahaha.jpg

Shiva. Here's what Tokyo Rose, err...The CNN anchor said that the Iranian bassboat broadcast on the radio to the US Navy ships. Don't piss your pants. I almost did.

[35Pete]

No questioning at all. Just peddled to the public for consumption.

No scrutiny, no question. No skepticism.

[shiva2999]

I have no doubt they just videoed standard Iraqi manouevres and added a sound track.

Presto.

A big ****ing deal.

[Green Lantern]

A commission to study speech and organization. You'd have to be a ****ing idiot to actually believe "damned if they don't". Don't you agree?

I don't follow you. The commission is being formed to investigate the causes of 'violent radicalization'. The causes. Are you already upset about their solutions before they offer them?

[35Pete]

I don't follow you. The commission is being formed to investigate the causes of 'violent radicalization'. The causes. Are you already upset about their solutions before they offer them?

Did YOU read the entire thing?

I have an issue with the gov't passing a law that investigates "radicalization".

Again. What is the definition of "radical"? Who gets to decide?

What is the definition of force? Same concept.

A commission that "studies" or surveys speech and/or assembly in this nation is de facto creating an atmosphere of intimidation. And may I remind you that Congress shall make NO law...

What's you opinion of HR1955? Concisely if you don't mind.

[shiva2999]

:rofl:

SEC. 899A. DEFINITIONS.

`For purposes of this subtitle:

`(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.

`(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.

Bushco

`(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

Bushco

`(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.

Bushco

[Green Lantern]

Did YOU read the entire thing?

I have an issue with the gov't passing a law that investigates "radicalization".

Again. What is the definition of "radical"? Who gets to decide?

What is the definition of force? Same concept.

A commission that "studies" or surveys speech and/or assembly in this nation is de facto creating an atmosphere of intimidation. And may I remind you that Congress shall make NO law...

What's you opinion of HR1955? Concisely if you don't mind.

I did read it. Again. I see no power granted, no impingement of rights, nothing that should be getting your panties in a twist.

The commission holds hearings, requests information, talks with foreign governments that have dealt with terrorists in their own countries and asks what they have learned from their decades of experience, etc.

[35Pete]

:rofl:

SEC. 899A. DEFINITIONS.

`For purposes of this subtitle:

`(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.

`(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.

Bushco

`(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

Bushco

`(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.

Bushco

That's based on a proven criminal track record Shiva. Nice retort. Bravo.

My question is this:

What's considered "extremist" by this commission of government? Man, I could see a lot of people getting gored by this legislation. What's the legal definition and who decides? The bipartisan gov't gets to examine speech and assembly?

Congress shall make no law....

I don't see a disclaimer excusing bipartisan efforts.

[Green Lantern]

That's based on a proven criminal track record Shiva. Nice retort. Bravo.

My question is this:

What's considered "extremist" by this commission of government? Man, I could see a lot of people getting gored by this legislation. What's the legal definition and who decides? The bipartisan gov't gets to examine speech and assembly?

Congress shall make no law....

I don't see a disclaimer excusing bipartisan efforts.

What legislation?

[35Pete]

What legislation?

The formation of a commission if it gets through the senate and the furhrer signs it.

He salivates over shit like this.

[Green Lantern]

The formation of a commission if it gets through the senate and the furhrer signs it.

He salivates over shit like this.

OK. I am still not understanding why this is a big deal to you.

A Commission is formed to inquire as to the causes and the nature of violent, terroristic groups.

From here you object that they are doing something wrong.

I think the first part of the bill, what Congress lists as what it thinks about these things and how they define threats (Shiva's post), is more ominous than the formation of a commission tasked with gather research data on what other countries have come up with as solutions to fight homegrown terrorists and to find out what the landscape for these things looks like in the US.

[35Pete]

OK. I am still not understanding why this is a big deal to you.

A Commission is formed to inquire as to the causes and the nature of violent, terroristic groups.

From here you object that they are doing something wrong.

I think the first part of the bill, what Congress lists as what it thinks about these things and how they define threats (Shiva's post), is more ominous than the formation of a commission tasked with gather research data on what other countries have come up with as solutions to fight homegrown terrorists and to find out what the landscape for these things looks like in the US.

Aqua. I'm not messing with you. If I were you'd know it. ;) But if you are really interested then I suggest that you comb through the language a little bit more, take a step back, and look at how this law could be used. Look at it some more and we'll talk.

[Green Lantern]

Aqua. I'm not messing with you. If I were you'd know it. ;) But if you are really interested then I suggest that you comb through the language a little bit more, take a step back, and look at how this law could be used. Look at it some more and we'll talk.

Please show me where this will become law and what that law will do. What I read from your link is that it is a proposal to put together a commission to study a perceived problem.

From this commission, some recommendations could come. Of those, some yahoo might decide to draw up a law to monitor us for our own safety. On that day, post that Bill and I will call my congressman and object.

[shiva2999]

I have no doubt they just videoed standard Iranian manouevres and added a sound track.

Presto.

A big ****ing deal.

What did I tell you?

http://www.pr-inside.com/iranian-tv-us-video-images-audio-r377957.htm

Iranian TV: US video images, audio recordings of encounter in Gulf was 'fabricated'

2008-01-09 12:02:44 -


TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iran on Wednesday called video and audio released by the Pentagon showing Iranian Revolutionary Guards boats confronting U.S. warships in the Strait of Hormuz «fabricated,» an English-language state-run television station reported.
«The footage released by the U.S. Navy was compiled using file pictures and the audio has been fabricated,» the state-run English-language channel Press TV quoted an official in the Revolutionary Guards as saying.

[35Pete]

:rofl:

[Sparx]

LOL all that was missing was an Iranian behind the boat water skiing :rofl:

[uppy]

You want this war,Up?

Then you go down and reenlist,and you fight this war YOURSELF since you're got such a jones for it....

I've told you before Carl,I tryed to re-up after 9/11 and they said I'm to old and have
a bad knee

[uppy]

No questioning at all. Just peddled to the public for consumption.

No scrutiny, no question. No skepticism.

Are you saying the Sailors on that ship are lying ?

[shiva2999]

I've told you before Carl,I tryed to re-up after 9/11 and they said I'm to old and have
a bad knee

They didn't have a problem with the johnson warts?

[35Pete]

Are you saying the Sailors on that ship are lying ?

Yep. When line officers tell them to they'd better.

[shiva2999]

Are you saying the Sailors on that ship are lying ?

What sailors are you talking about?

Besides, I know you'd lie if your gov't asked you to. Are these sailors less patriotic than you?

[uppy]

They didn't have a problem with the johnson warts?

LOL

We have a cure for Johnson in the US.

[uppy]

What sailors are you talking about?

Besides, I know you'd lie if your gov't asked you to. Are these sailors less patriotic than you?

This is not classified the navy released the tape.No one would be asked to keep

quite.

[uppy]

Yep. When line officers tell them to they'd better.

That would be a illegal order unless it was classified.

[shiva2999]

This is not a classified the navy released the tape.No one would be asked to keep

quite.

Who's going to talk?

The ship's in the middle of the Hormuz Straits.

In fact, who knows if any of the sailors are even aware of this piece of obvious propaganda?

[uppy]

Who's going to talk?

The ship's in the middle of the Hormuz Straits.

In fact, who knows if any of the sailors are even aware of this piece of obvious propaganda?


The Ship will not be the Straits forever the Guys will be back home at some point.

BTW,Shiva the sailors manning the guns will see them the Ship was on General Quarters

[mark3274]

I've told you before Carl,I tryed to re-up after 9/11 and they said I'm to old and have
a bad knee

you can work for blackwater get to it exxon needs all the bodies they can get.

your dream of a war with iran will never happen. thankfully everything bush will be erased ina few short months.. wait til ya see what the military budget looks like minus a few trillion dollars.

[uppy]

you can work for blackwater get to it exxon needs all the bodies they can get.

your dream of a war with iran will never happen. thankfully everything bush will be erased ina few short months.. wait til ya see what the military budget looks like minus a few trillion dollars.

I have no dream of war,I do however wish to see my country free from attack

and make no mistake thats what happened on 9/11.The goverment in Iran is a

bunch of terrorists and have been since 1979 when our Embassy was attacked

and innocent people were taken hostage.The fact is the goverment in Iran are the most

murderous religious fanatics on the face of earth

[35Pete]

I have no dream of war,I do however wish to see my country free from attack

and make no mistake that what happened on 9/11.The goverment in Iran is a

bunch of terrorists and have been since 1979 when our Embassy was attacked

and innocent people were taken hostage.The fact is the goverment in Iran are the most

murderous religious fanatics on the face of earth

Blackwater pays top dollar. You get to fire guns and kill people. Muslims too. Wouldn't that be a hoot.

Please spare me the "I have no dream of war".

You're actions speak so loudly that I cannot hear what you are saying.

[Sparx]

When they do shit to us - terrorism

when we do shit to them - mistake, righteous, or in our interests

CIA's involvement in overthrowing the democratically-elected Mossaddeq was which one again?

[uppy]

Blackwater pays top dollar. You get to fire guns and kill people. Muslims too. Wouldn't that be a hoot.

Please spare me the "I have no dream of war".

You're actions speak so loudly that I cannot hear what you are saying.


I've fired weapons before Pete,it was a job,I have a new job now.You on the other

hand have all kinds of guns and love money,this sounds like something you would

like.

[ddpderek]

Really you would support another war?

People need to wake the F up and face teh fact that the war on terror is never ending as you can not defeat an idea. We can only protect or selves and halt further attacks. We do not need to going into more countries and creating more hate against us.

[ddpderek]

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i6hOyzOoe-27VIT0WXMRbYCqXB8Q

Can we allow the world to take its course of action instead of going out on one of our own?

[dilbert]

I have no dream of war,I do however wish to see my country free from attack

and make no mistake thats what happened on 9/11.The goverment in Iran is a

bunch of terrorists and have been since 1979 when our Embassy was attacked

and innocent people were taken hostage.The fact is the goverment in Iran are the most

murderous religious fanatics on the face of earth


George Bush has been responsible for more deaths of innocents than the government of Iran.

[35Pete]

When they do shit to us - terrorism

when we do shit to them - mistake, righteous, or in our interests

CIA's involvement in overthrowing the democratically-elected Mossaddeq was which one again?

1953. First time the CIA used psychological operations to disinform and brainwash the Iranian public, pit factions against each other in a divide and conquer, destabilize their currency, and commit false flag outright terrorism acts and blame it on Mosaddeq.

Kinda like what's happening to us right now. Except in the former the CIA has been historically demonstrated to have done it and with the latter it's all "coincidence". LOL
Why? Because people that I deeply fear might vote have personally said, "we''re not brainwashed".

Yeah, OK. That's good enough for me. If they say so. Nevertheless, remind those guys to get out the 3rd tuesday of November this year and do their duty, would ya?

[shiva2999]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Uppy is once again proved to be an idiot.

Life is good!

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4115702&page=1


U.S.: Voices on Recording May Not Have Been From Iranian Speedboats
Chilling Threat Could Have Come From the Shore or Another Ship, Navy Says

By MARTHA RADDATZ and JONATHAN KARL
Jan. 10, 2008

Just two days after the U.S. Navy released the eerie video of Iranian speedboats swarming around American warships, which featured a chilling threat in English, the Navy is saying that the voice on the tape could have come from the shore or from another ship.

The near-clash occurred over the weekend in the Strait of Hormuz. On the U.S.-released recording, a voice can be heard saying to the Americans, "I am coming to you. You will explode after a few minutes."

The Navy never said specifically where the voices came from, but many were left with the impression they had come from the speedboats because of the way the Navy footage was edited.

Today, the spokesperson for the U.S. admiral in charge of the Fifth Fleet clarified to ABC News that the threat may have come from the Iranian boats, or it may have come from somewhere else.

We're saying that we cannot make a direct connection to the boats there," said the spokesperson. "It could have come from the shore, from another ship passing by. However, it happened in the middle of all the very unusual activity, so as we assess the information and situation, we still put it in the total aggregate of what happened Sunday morning. I guess we're not saying that it absolutely came from the boats, but we're not saying it absolutely didn't."

[shiva2999]

Watch out! There could be a nuke on board!

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/navy_iran_080110_ms.jpg

[uppy]

Really you would support another war?

People need to wake the F up and face teh fact that the war on terror is never ending as you can not defeat an idea. We can only protect or selves and halt further attacks. We do not need to going into more countries and creating more hate against us.

I disagree we can win the war on terror by making it so painfull for the terror nations

that they will shy away from funding attacks agianst the US.One could say this is

already working,there have been no attacks on our soil since the war started.

While there have been attacks all over the world durring this time.

In short we are winning and Mr.Bush is to be thanked for his leadership.

[35Pete]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Uppy is once again proved to be an idiot.

Life is good!

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4115702&page=1


U.S.: Voices on Recording May Not Have Been From Iranian Speedboats
Chilling Threat Could Have Come From the Shore or Another Ship, Navy Says

By MARTHA RADDATZ and JONATHAN KARL
Jan. 10, 2008

Just two days after the U.S. Navy released the eerie video of Iranian speedboats swarming around American warships, which featured a chilling threat in English, the Navy is saying that the voice on the tape could have come from the shore or from another ship.

The near-clash occurred over the weekend in the Strait of Hormuz. On the U.S.-released recording, a voice can be heard saying to the Americans, "I am coming to you. You will explode after a few minutes."

The Navy never said specifically where the voices came from, but many were left with the impression they had come from the speedboats because of the way the Navy footage was edited.

Today, the spokesperson for the U.S. admiral in charge of the Fifth Fleet clarified to ABC News that the threat may have come from the Iranian boats, or it may have come from somewhere else.

We're saying that we cannot make a direct connection to the boats there," said the spokesperson. "It could have come from the shore, from another ship passing by. However, it happened in the middle of all the very unusual activity, so as we assess the information and situation, we still put it in the total aggregate of what happened Sunday morning. I guess we're not saying that it absolutely came from the boats, but we're not saying it absolutely didn't."

That doesn't make a damn bit of sense. So, while the Iranian Navy was allegedly patrolling the Straights of Hormuz, someone from another unrelated boat or a shack on the beach was broadcasting that inanely stupid death threat?

What the hell?

[Green Lantern]

I disagree we can win the war on terror by making it so painfull for the terror nations

that they will shy away from funding attacks agianst the US.One could say this is

already working,there have been no attacks on our soil since the war started.

While there have been attacks all over the world durring this time.

In short we are winning and Mr.Bush is to be thanked for his leadership.

Israel has been trying this for decades. I would think it is apparent that it only breeds more hate, but for some reason bad ideas live on as long as good.

[35Pete]

Israel has been trying this for decades. I would think it is apparent that it only breeds more hate, but for some reason bad ideas live on as long as good.

Israel is winning the War on Terror too. Have been since 1948.

[uppy]

George Bush has been responsible for more deaths of innocents than the government of Iran.

Iran,has been pumping in the resources from the start to keep things hot in iraq.

Things would have been peacefull had it not been for this....... FACT.

You Sir are wrong

[shiva2999]

That doesn't make a damn bit of sense. So, while the Iranian Navy was allegedly patrolling the Straights of Hormuz, someone from another unrelated boat or a shack on the beach was broadcasting that inanely stupid death threat?

What the hell?

It could have come from anyone with a radio.

Even, say, one of the other US ships...

[uppy]

Israel has been trying this for decades. I would think it is apparent that it only breeds more hate, but for some reason bad ideas live on as long as good.

Israel has never had the means to do what the USA can do,I am shocked this fact has

escaped you Aqua. ;)

[uppy]

Israel is winning the War on Terror too. Have been since 1948.


See post # 77

[uppy]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Uppy is once again proved to be an idiot.

Life is good!

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4115702&page=1


U.S.: Voices on Recording May Not Have Been From Iranian Speedboats
Chilling Threat Could Have Come From the Shore or Another Ship, Navy Says

."

So what,it came from Iran,it still means the same thing.

Iran wants war

[35Pete]

It could have come from anyone with a radio.

Even, say, one of the other US ships...

Have you ever seen Cool Edit Pro software? You can do the most amazing audio edits with it. I use it at work a lot.

Yes. The comment is related.

[shiva2999]

So what,it came from Iran,it still means the same thing.

Iran wants war

Translation?

"Well, so what if the incident I pimped is complete bullshit? I'm still right!"

[uppy]

Have you ever seen Cool Edit Pro software? You can do the most amazing audio edits with it. I use it at work a lot.

Yes. The comment is related.

A year ago I would take this post seriously,but you have changed since Pete.........lmao

[35Pete]

A year ago I would take this post seriously,but you have changed since Pete.........lmao

True. I discovered that I had a soul.

[ckg68]

Israel has never had the means to do what the USA can do,I am shocked this fact has

escaped you Aqua. ;)

Have you forgotten that Israel has nukes?

I certainly haven't.

[uppy]

Translation?

"Well, so what if the incident I pimped is complete bullshit? I'm still right!"

Its not a pimped incident it happend,you are humping a strawman with this

"Voices on Recording May Not Have Been From Iranian Speedboats"

Crap.The fact remains the Goverment of Iran as been looking for a fight for

some time now.And your enthusiastic support for the most murderous religious

fanatics on the face of earth does not surprise me

[shiva2999]

Its not a pimped incident it happend,you are humping a strawman with this...

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Here, I've got your new avatar...

http://sharpiron.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/devil-with-pitchfork.jpg

[uppy]

Have you forgotten that Israel has nukes?

I certainly haven't.

Israel can't use Her nukes on the neighors it would have a bad affect on the "air"

in Israel too.Besides we can cause pain without using the Bomb.

[35Pete]

Its not a pimped incident it happend,you are humping a strawman with this

"Voices on Recording May Not Have Been From Iranian Speedboats"

Crap.The fact remains the Goverment of Iran as been looking for a fight for

some time now.And your enthusiastic support for the most murderous religious

fanatics on the face of earth does not surprise me

Uppy. Stop for a second. Think about it. Why would Iran pick a fight with a nation that spends more on the most premier military power than the next 11 nations combined?

Don't tell me that we are spread thin. They know Bush wants a fight. They know that if they really did pick one they'd get one. Just the Navy alone would set that nation back 70 years. And they know it.

Think bro. Why? Why would they want a fight with us?

[Sparx]

I know if I was the leader of a piece of shit, dime a dozen country like Iran I'd want to go to war with the world's superpower. It makes perfect sense.

[35Pete]

I know if I was the leader of a piece of shit, dime a dozen country like Iran I'd want to go to war with the world's superpower. It makes perfect sense.

And Iran's intent to convert from petrodollars to petroeuros would have nothing to do with the US Navy off of it's coast, now would it?

[uppy]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Here, I've got your new avatar...

http://sharpiron.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/devil-with-pitchfork.jpg

And I've found yours

http://northstargallery.com/pages/Rome/Angel%20Vatican%2004%20weba.jpg

[uppy]

I know if I was the leader of a piece of shit, dime a dozen country like Iran I'd want to go to war with the world's superpower. It makes perfect sense.

Iran knows it can win without fighting because the country is full of wimpie moonbats

that allaeady want to surrender.They have CNN too and laugh at what they see.

[shiva2999]

Iran knows it can win without fighting because the country is full of wimpie moonbats

that allaeady want to surrender.They have CNN too and laugh at what they see.

I'm coming for you uppy. In a few minutes your head will explode.

[Green Lantern]

Israel has never had the means to do what the USA can do,I am shocked this fact has

escaped you Aqua. ;)

Even Rome lost there eventually and we are neither that cruel nor willful.

[uppy]

Uppy. Stop for a second. Think about it. Why would Iran pick a fight with a nation that spends more on the most premier military power than the next 11 nations combined?

Don't tell me that we are spread thin. They know Bush wants a fight. They know that if they really did pick one they'd get one. Just the Navy alone would set that nation back 70 years. And they know it.

Think bro. Why? Why would they want a fight with us?

Iran wants to be seen as the country that beat the great satan in the muslum world.

All it will take is a retreat by the US to give them the bragging rights,you anti war

on terror people are winning this for some of the most murderous religious

fanatics on the face of earth.And like I said before they are laughing their asses off.

[uppy]

I'm coming for you uppy. In a few minutes your head will explode.



I'm not Pete and Coastie is not around to help you any more.


Sincerely,

Lucifer

Buwahahahahahahahaha

[Green Lantern]

Uppy. Stop for a second. Think about it. Why would Iran pick a fight with a nation that spends more on the most premier military power than the next 11 nations combined?

Don't tell me that we are spread thin. They know Bush wants a fight. They know that if they really did pick one they'd get one. Just the Navy alone would set that nation back 70 years. And they know it.

Think bro. Why? Why would they want a fight with us?

You are far too modest. The US spend more on military than the whole rest of the world combined.

[35Pete]

I'm not Pete and Coastie is not around to help you any more.


Sincerely,

Lucifer

Buwahahahahahahahaha

I am around.

But it's never my intent to make your head explode. Or anyone for that matter. I just prefer statements with content bro. Don't have to agree. But something of policy justification might be nice.

[35Pete]

You are far too modest. The US spend more on military than the whole rest of the world combined.

I was drawing from memory a compilation I did in late 2006. At this point you may be right.

[uppy]

Even Rome lost there eventually and we are neither that cruel nor willful.


Eventually is a long time

[Green Lantern]

Eventually is a long time

True enough. The simple fact is that we can go home and they have no where else to go. We will leave one day and they will still be there. We do not have the stomach to kill a whole race of people, I think.

[JLB]

:popcorn:

[uppy]

True enough. The simple fact is that we can go home and they have no where else to go. We will leave one day and they will still be there. We do not have the stomach to kill a whole race of people, I think.

I am shocked that you think we need to kill a whole race,all we need to do is stop

the fanatics.

[Green Lantern]

I am shocked that you think we need to kill a whole race,all we need to do is stop

the fanatics.

All your talk seems reasonable from a certain perspective, not from their's though.

We go into Saudia Arabia, to fight Saddam, and then stay. The Koran says no foreign army can occupy the lands of Mecca and Medina and we stay for more than a decade. The terrorists blow things of ours up and before every event issue a press release saying something bad is about to happen and these things will continue to happen until the United States leaves Saudia Arabia.

Our response is yours: send more men over there and keep killing bad guys until they lose the will to fight. The main problem with your recipe for success is that they are fighting us for being there.

[Gibby]

Iran wants war

WASHINGTON (AP) - Iranian boats harassed and provoked three American Navy ships in the strategic Strait of Hormuz, threatening to explode the vessels, U.S. officials said Monday.
In the most serious such incident in years, U.S. forces were on the verge of firing on the Iranian boats during the incident early Sunday, when the boats—believed to be from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's navy—turned and moved away, a Pentagon official said.

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman called it a "serious incident." Another U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, called it "the most serious provocation of this sort that we've seen yet."




http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8U16UGG0&show_article=1

This is why I hate when Hollywood remakes the classics, they always **** it up. For the same reason I hate when DC remakes the classics as they just make em work. Really now this doesn't look familiar to you? No? Okay, here are some clues. LBJ was president. It was August 2-4 of 64 and its a four word phrase. Oh hell if you are too dense to see it (aka Uppy and Gilly) its Gulf of Tonkin. However, if we are going to reach back into taking pages from our history to start news wars may I suggest some of the following

1) bomb mosques in Hondoraus and say we are rolling back Islam

2) Start a petrol fire in one of the hangers of our fleet carriers near Gitmo Bay and then have FAUX news demand that we declare war on Castro for getting one of his agents to blow up an American War Ship

3) get the Tommies to give us diplomatic memos between North Korea and Mexico promising the Mexicans that if they support the Koreans that when Kim wins the war that everything lost in 1848 will be given back to Mexico

4) Reduce a fort in Iraq down to a skeleton force and fire the Iranians to fire the first shot. Oh yeah can we rename the fort camp sumter

[Spartacus]

I saw the video.

Fishing boats vs warships.

:rofl:

I'm not sure if this was addressed because I did not read through the entire thread. It is my opinion that the Iranian ships (either Navy or Republican Guard) were simply pulling fighter kock type crap and buzzing the ships yelling out some rhetorical bs. Thankfully neither side escalated it past this point. One thing about ships the size of the Iranians is that very poweful antiship missiles CAN be fired off of boats that small. Ships that size are mainstays of the Russian, North Korean and several other former and current communist countries for close to shore defense (and sometimes offensive uses as well). The types of antiship missiles that could be fired from similar boats would be able to massive damage to smaller warships like the ones like those Navy ships involved. Also my opinion, this was really no different than a couple of fighter jocks from different countries playing chicken with each other at 35,000 feet.

[shiva2999]

One thing about ships the size of the Iranians is that very poweful antiship missiles CAN be fired off of boats that small.

Seriously?

Where do they hide them?

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/navy_iran_080110_ms.jpg

[Green Lantern]

I think we should boycott Yamaha for selling outboards to the enemy.

[Spartacus]

Seriously?

Where do they hide them?

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/navy_iran_080110_ms.jpg


Notice that I said COULD. Not that they were on board. Simply trying to provide some information about why the Navy could have been concerned about being buzzed by these boats.

[McD]

This thread is a ridiculous "he said, she said" bunch of nonsense. To hell with the audio...does it matter? We're the boats real? I don't know...they looked real enough to me, and in the grand scheme of things you just do not let other watercraft anywhere near yours. We made this mistake before (USS Cole) and ANYONE doing something that stupid with a few warships is either an idiot or has a specific agenda. You do not need a "nuke" to make a big hole in a warship like that. Did you see the size of the vehicle that was used to obliterate the federal bldg in Okla City? It was a damn van filled with explosives. Take a look at that boat in Shiva's pic...the front end of that thing could haul some serious conventional explosives.

Anyway...point being, do any of you know if this happened or not? No. Would/could the Iranians do something like this to provoke us? I'll be open minded like all of you would like me to be and say "Yes", tell me why he wouldn't. He knows we're fully engaged on a few fronts already, and he knows the US people back home would not favor another conflict. It's like picking on a big guy who you know won't fight back at the moment.

I love how all of these people can claim the US and it's Gov't are the only ones who are capable of pulling these kinds of shenanigans. Damn, I never said the Iranians are stupid...besides do you think the Iranian Prez cares if he loses a few guys and/or a few boats?? He wins either way...he knows if we did shoot them out of the water, it just adds to his "See the US is a bully" tactic. If we do nothing, he claims a victory because he "pulled one over" on the US, and we did nothing about it. He uses propaganda just like everyone else does.

Let me add one more thing....I'm here, RIGHT ***** HERE. I know there are all sorts of things going on over this incident, I see it every day. Will anything happen? I don't know, but we're ready.

Oh, and all of you anti military types. I'm not a war monger and neither is Uppy. I hope we don't run over and start beating up on Iran. I hope the idiots in power can eliminate this incident with no escalation of tension and learn to play nice.

[shiva2999]

The Pentagon (serial liars) took some footage of Iranian speedboats and a ridiculous radio transmission and provided it to the American media (serial liars), where it received huge play and provided an opportunity for your President (serial liar) to rattle his sabre.

And yet it's our fault we don't believe it?

Does this mean we don't support the troops?

[McD]

Believe what you'd like. Again, if they are in fact Iranian speed boats they shouldn't be anywhere near our warships. Maybe they weren't Iranian at all? It's cool sh!t like this that the U.S Gov't does for you to keep up your arsenal of theories.

[shiva2999]

Believe what you'd like. Again, if they are in fact Iranian speed boats they shouldn't be anywhere near our warships. Maybe they weren't Iranian at all? It's cool sh!t like this that the U.S Gov't does for you to keep up your arsenal of theories.

And keeps you employed.

[35Pete]

Believe what you'd like. Again, if they are in fact Iranian speed boats they shouldn't be anywhere near our warships. Maybe they weren't Iranian at all? It's cool sh!t like this that the U.S Gov't does for you to keep up your arsenal of theories.

It's not about belief. That's the problem. It's about analyzing the available facts and concluding the most like scenario. At the very least if the story had merit, it wouldn't be so easy to poke holes in. And if the holes don't exist then perhaps you can explain why. Please don't cite government sources as authoritative truth. Analyze it please and tell us.

[McD]

And keeps you employed.

Thanks!

And, unfortunately, thanks to the rest of mankind, I'll always be employed.

[McD]

It's not about belief. That's the problem. It's about analyzing the available facts and concluding the most like scenario. At the very least if the story had merit, it wouldn't be so easy to poke holes in. And if the holes don't exist then perhaps you can explain why. Please don't cite government sources as authoritative truth. Analyze it please and tell us.

Christ Pete! You too? All of a sudden every crack pot country can do as they please... fabricate anything they want and the US will now ALWAYS be wrong to you? Ok. Maybe you should head north. Again, I told you...you guys believe what the hell you want. No skin off my back. I didn't create the story, nor did I cite any Gov't authority. I'm glad the Gov't finds ways to "create" stories for you both to debunk and entertain yourselves with. Lol, funny how you're now saying everyone should open their eyes and see how there's two sides to every story, but here you are looking at this from one side. Yep, that mean old U.S of A just MUST be lying about this too.

Now let me ask you....why...why in the hell would we do this? Seriously...I'd like your reasons...or would they be someone else's reasons?

[McD]

It's not about belief. That's the problem.

BTW...Everything is about beliefs...religious beliefs, political beliefs, etc. It appears, sadly enough, that your new belief is Shivaism.

[shiva2999]

Thanks!

And, unfortunately, thanks to the rest of mankind, I'll always be employed.

It's all our fault?

Cool!

[McD]

It's all our fault?

Cool!


Hell yeah, you've got to be useful for something right?

[shiva2999]

Hell yeah, you've got to be useful for something right?

It's our pleasure to let you kill us to feed your family.

You are the predator and we are the prey.

It's nature's way.

[35Pete]

Christ Pete! You too? All of a sudden every crack pot country can do as they please... fabricate anything they want and the US will now ALWAYS be wrong to you? Ok. Maybe you should head north. Again, I told you...you guys believe what the hell you want. No skin off my back. I didn't create the story, nor did I cite any Gov't authority. I'm glad the Gov't finds ways to "create" stories for you both to debunk and entertain yourselves with. Lol, funny how you're now saying everyone should open their eyes and see how there's two sides to every story, but here you are looking at this from one side. Yep, that mean old U.S of A just MUST be lying about this too.

Now let me ask you....why...why in the hell would we do this? Seriously...I'd like your reasons...or would they be someone else's reasons?

What's wrong with questioning authority McD when the facts don't jibe with the official position? I know you are taught not to question authority. I happen to think that ruins a man if he carries it throughout his life. (Don't let it) Since you'll go to the brig for questioning authority I'll be your civilian buddy "back in the world" and proxy for you, ok?

It appears to you that I am looking at this from one side. I am a scientist. I test theories by trying to poke holes in them. Unfortunately for your El Jefe there his theories (or stories in this case) don't seem to hold water. Consistently too. Does that not bother you?

Maybe you should head south McD. No, I won't say that. I retract. Pulling the "my way or the highway" is wrong.

Why would we do this McD? I'll give you my OWN reasons kettle. I promise. You stick by the reasons that your leader gave you (Bush) and I'll give you mine.

Do you know what a Petrodollar is? Do you know how monetarily valuable combat can be to certain interests? Do you know how much value can be bilked out of Iran? America corporation is bilking billions out of Iraq. The arms manufacturers are making a killing on this war. The shareholders (big banks) of the federal reserve are making a killing off of the debt interest incurred by the war. Through almighty force blessed by God because our intrinsic greatness (cue flag waving and all that patriotic bull shit) we were able to stop Iraq from converting to the petroeuro. That would have thrown us into a depression.

Guess who wants to convert now?

Did you know that sociopaths can easily fool a psychiatric evaluation because of their ability to mask, manipulate and lie? Bush had to take one as a pre-requisite for office you know.

[sukie]

What or who is America corporation?

[35Pete]

What or who is America corporation?

It's a euphemism that I use for government controlling big corporate interests like Blackwater, Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel, Connoco-Phillips, ect..

[McD]

It's our pleasure to let you kill us to feed your family.

You are the predator and we are the prey.

It's nature's way.


I haven't killed anyone. I work for the Dept of Defense, not the Dept of Aggression. You're right though...so far it's been natures way.

What are you doing to change it? I hope something, and something soon.

[sukie]

It's a euphemism that I use for government controlling big corporate interests like Blackwater, Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel, Connoco-Phillips, ect..

Do any of these corporations have vast amounts of employed peeps working for them or are they just large buildings with a couple of rich guys rolling around naked in piles of "bennies"?

[35Pete]

Do any of these corporations have vast amounts of employed peeps working for them or are they just large buildings with a couple of rich guys rolling around naked in piles of "bennies"?

I fail to see the relevance. Whether or not they have employs that feed their families is irrelevant except for the fact that those workers are immoral too. (I was only following orders is a philosophical argument that spans more than military personnel). But the executives, owners, and shareholders make the biggest chunk of the pie sukie.

[McD]

What's wrong with questioning authority McD when the facts don't jibe with the official position? I know you are taught not to question authority. I happen to think that ruins a man if he carries it throughout his life. (Don't let it) Since you'll go to the brig for questioning authority I'll be your civilian buddy "back in the world" and proxy for you, ok?

It appears to you that I am looking at this from one side. I am a scientist. I test theories by trying to poke holes in them. Unfortunately for your El Jefe there his theories (or stories in this case) don't seem to hold water. Consistently too. Does that not bother you?

Maybe you should head south McD. No, I won't say that. I retract. Pulling the "my way or the highway" is wrong.

Why would we do this McD? I'll give you my OWN reasons kettle. I promise. You stick by the reasons that your leader gave you (Bush) and I'll give you mine.

Do you know what a Petrodollar is? Do you know how monetarily valuable combat can be to certain interests? Do you know how much value can be bilked out of Iran? America corporation is bilking billions out of Iraq. The arms manufacturers are making a killing on this war. The shareholders (big banks) of the federal reserve are making a killing off of the debt interest incurred by the war. Through almighty force blessed by God because our intrinsic greatness (cue flag waving and all that patriotic bull shit) we were able to stop Iraq from converting to the petroeuro. That would have thrown us into a depression.

Guess who wants to convert now?

Did you know that sociopaths can easily fool a psychiatric evaluation because of their ability to mask, manipulate and lie? Bush had to take one as a pre-requisite for office you know.

Ok, I haven't even read all of you post Pete, but I will. Now go back and show me where...anywhere that I've said that anything that this thread is about happened? Show me Pete. Before you try to make it look like I'm supporting something that you think I am, please at least make sure that you know what it is your talking about.

Now here's what I said "both of you can have your opinion". Then I basically said "why are you clamoring on about being open minded, but neither of you are". It's silly man, silly. Ok, now I'll go back.

[McD]

What's wrong with questioning authority McD when the facts don't jibe with the official position? I know you are taught not to question authority. I happen to think that ruins a man if he carries it throughout his life. (Don't let it) Since you'll go to the brig for questioning authority I'll be your civilian buddy "back in the world" and proxy for you, ok?

It appears to you that I am looking at this from one side. I am a scientist. I test theories by trying to poke holes in them. Unfortunately for your El Jefe there his theories (or stories in this case) don't seem to hold water. Consistently too. Does that not bother you?

Maybe you should head south McD. No, I won't say that. I retract. Pulling the "my way or the highway" is wrong.

Why would we do this McD? I'll give you my OWN reasons kettle. I promise. You stick by the reasons that your leader gave you (Bush) and I'll give you mine.

Do you know what a Petrodollar is? Do you know how monetarily valuable combat can be to certain interests? Do you know how much value can be bilked out of Iran? America corporation is bilking billions out of Iraq. The arms manufacturers are making a killing on this war. The shareholders (big banks) of the federal reserve are making a killing off of the debt interest incurred by the war. Through almighty force blessed by God because our intrinsic greatness (cue flag waving and all that patriotic bull shit) we were able to stop Iraq from converting to the petroeuro. That would have thrown us into a depression.

Guess who wants to convert now?

Did you know that sociopaths can easily fool a psychiatric evaluation because of their ability to mask, manipulate and lie? Bush had to take one as a pre-requisite for office you know.

BTW...I question authority every day. I'm in the AF, not the Army. No offense to my Army bretheren.

[sukie]

I fail to see the relevance. Whether or not they have employs that feed their families is irrelevant except for the fact that those workers are immoral too. (I was only following orders is a philosophical argument that spans more than military personnel). But the executives, owners, and shareholders make the biggest chunk of the pie sukie.

So you would have no problem if war costs were a fixed constant but euro and South American companies supplied everything to our troops?

[35Pete]

Ok, I haven't even read all of you post Pete, but I will. Now go back and show me where...anywhere that I've said that anything that this thread is about happened? Show me Pete. Before you try to make it look like I'm supporting something that you think I am, please at least make sure that you know what it is your talking about.

Now here's what I said "both of you can have your opinion". Then I basically said "why are you clamoring on about being open minded, but neither of you are". It's silly man, silly. Ok, now I'll go back.

I can have an opinion whether you allow me to or not. That's not the point. From the proceeding post might I assume that you think that my opinion is absurd and the US position is the correct one? You don't respect my opinion. That's fine. But for the wrong reasons. The right reason would be to challenge the assertions. The wrong reason is because it is an antithesis to your dogmatic beliefs. I'm waiting to be called left-wing which in and of itself, those magical two words completely discredit my argument. Nothing more to see. Move on. Truth has shown light of reason on Pete.

I don't respect you implied counterargument because....

there is none?

Christ Pete! You too? All of a sudden every crack pot country can do as they please... fabricate anything they want and the US will now ALWAYS be wrong to you? Ok. Maybe you should head north. Again, I told you...you guys believe what the hell you want. No skin off my back. I didn't create the story, nor did I cite any Gov't authority. I'm glad the Gov't finds ways to "create" stories for you both to debunk and entertain yourselves with. Lol, funny how you're now saying everyone should open their eyes and see how there's two sides to every story, but here you are looking at this from one side. Yep, that mean old U.S of A just MUST be lying about this too.

Now let me ask you....why...why in the hell would we do this? Seriously...I'd like your reasons...or would they be someone else's reasons?

[McD]

What's wrong with questioning authority McD when the facts don't jibe with the official position? I know you are taught not to question authority. I happen to think that ruins a man if he carries it throughout his life. (Don't let it) Since you'll go to the brig for questioning authority I'll be your civilian buddy "back in the world" and proxy for you, ok?

It appears to you that I am looking at this from one side. I am a scientist. I test theories by trying to poke holes in them. Unfortunately for your El Jefe there his theories (or stories in this case) don't seem to hold water. Consistently too. Does that not bother you?

Maybe you should head south McD. No, I won't say that. I retract. Pulling the "my way or the highway" is wrong.

Why would we do this McD? I'll give you my OWN reasons kettle. I promise. You stick by the reasons that your leader gave you (Bush) and I'll give you mine.

Do you know what a Petrodollar is? Do you know how monetarily valuable combat can be to certain interests? Do you know how much value can be bilked out of Iran? America corporation is bilking billions out of Iraq. The arms manufacturers are making a killing on this war. The shareholders (big banks) of the federal reserve are making a killing off of the debt interest incurred by the war. Through almighty force blessed by God because our intrinsic greatness (cue flag waving and all that patriotic bull shit) we were able to stop Iraq from converting to the petroeuro. That would have thrown us into a depression.

Guess who wants to convert now?

Did you know that sociopaths can easily fool a psychiatric evaluation because of their ability to mask, manipulate and lie? Bush had to take one as a pre-requisite for office you know.

OK...I just read all of it. Here's my response...NO SH!T PETE! My God, do any of you get it? I don't care for or about W. He's not fooling me, lol are you kidding? Good lord, at least I'm telling you to look at each side of the equation here. We're not playing a game alone, there are all sorts of players, and just because we're "ahead" we should just throw in our cards? C'mon Pete, as a scientist you understand survival of the fitest and evolution. As soon as you get weak or someone else evolves ahead of you, you fall down in the food chain.

[ticatfan3]

This thread is a ridiculous "he said, she said" bunch of nonsense. To hell with the audio...does it matter? We're the boats real? I don't know...they looked real enough to me, and in the grand scheme of things you just do not let other watercraft anywhere near yours. We made this mistake before (USS Cole) and ANYONE doing something that stupid with a few warships is either an idiot or has a specific agenda. You do not need a "nuke" to make a big hole in a warship like that. Did you see the size of the vehicle that was used to obliterate the federal bldg in Okla City? It was a damn van filled with explosives. Take a look at that boat in Shiva's pic...the front end of that thing could haul some serious conventional explosives.

Anyway...point being, do any of you know if this happened or not? No. Would/could the Iranians do something like this to provoke us? I'll be open minded like all of you would like me to be and say "Yes", tell me why he wouldn't. He knows we're fully engaged on a few fronts already, and he knows the US people back home would not favor another conflict. It's like picking on a big guy who you know won't fight back at the moment.

I love how all of these people can claim the US and it's Gov't are the only ones who are capable of pulling these kinds of shenanigans. Damn, I never said the Iranians are stupid...besides do you think the Iranian Prez cares if he loses a few guys and/or a few boats?? He wins either way...he knows if we did shoot them out of the water, it just adds to his "See the US is a bully" tactic. If we do nothing, he claims a victory because he "pulled one over" on the US, and we did nothing about it. He uses propaganda just like everyone else does.

Let me add one more thing....I'm here, RIGHT ***** HERE. I know there are all sorts of things going on over this incident, I see it every day. Will anything happen? I don't know, but we're ready.

Oh, and all of you anti military types. I'm not a war monger and neither is Uppy. I hope we don't run over and start beating up on Iran. I hope the idiots in power can eliminate this incident with no escalation of tension and learn to play nice.Don't get in a up roar ,once the dems get back into power all this terror stuff will cease to exist. Since it is just bushco pulling the wool over everyone eyes. :rolleyes:

[McD]

I can have an opinion whether you allow me to or not.

Uh, OK. Did I say you couldn't?? I'm arguing FOR YOU here.

From the proceeding post might I assume that you think that my opinion is absurd and the US position is the correct one? You don't respect my opinion. That's fine. But for the wrong reasons.

Oy vay! Again...have, hold, and cherish your opinions. I didn't say I didn't respect them.

Here's what it all boils down to.....look at both sides.

[McD]

Don't get in a up roar ,once the dems get back into power all this terror stuff will cease to exist. Since it is just bushco pulling the wool over everyone eyes. :rolleyes:


Uproar?? Lol, who's in an uproar?

[35Pete]

OK...I just read all of it. Here's my response...NO SH!T PETE! My God, do any of you get it? I don't care for or about W. He's not fooling me, lol are you kidding? Good lord, at least I'm telling you to look at each side of the equation here. We're not playing a game alone, there are all sorts of players, and just because we're "ahead" we should just throw in our cards? C'mon Pete, as a scientist you understand survival of the fitest and evolution. As soon as you get weak or someone else evolves ahead of you, you fall down in the food chain.

I am presently reading about a classification of behavior known as social dominators. The statement that I bolded is amazingly like an experimental questionnaire used as a personality indicator for such a trait. Now, I have no intention of singling you out, but at least 50% of the country voted for a man that shares that exact sentiment. That's who they favored.

Unfortunately it's like narcissism. The prognosis is very poor. It is very difficult to change the mind of someone with social dominator characteristics.

McD. I was one of them. Now, why the change of heart you might ask? I though you said the prognosis was poor Pete? Yes, I stand by that. But the realization of 9/11 (through physics which I could no longer spin.. I hit a fundamental law..game over) put me at a crossroads. Was I willing to sell my soul completely for the cause? Survival of the fittest.

When I witnessed people jump to their deaths on live TV I wanted to bulldoze the entire middle east. Kill em' all! Savages, islamofacists, insert propagada here. When I realized that the gov't did 9/11 (based on overwhelming evidence that their story is a complete fabrication, that the operation was too complex for a small group, too many blatant lies and too many important questions just plainly ignored, including motive) the thought of those falling fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters, who'd fall 1000+ feet rather than be burned to death, I realized that if I stayed with Team Aggression, or Team Me, that I was then in a way condoning or accepting their deaths as "the price you pay".

McD. That turns your world on it's head. That's what I mean when I say I snapped out of my conditioned and programmed trance.

I didn't want to be on the side of Team Evil.

But I do want to get things right. Poking holes in the stories tells me that they're not being honest with me. The two-sides? Yes, of course. I was "pro-cavemen did it" theory for almost 5 years. I have only started to look at the other side for the past year.

A year and a half ago I'd be on your side. Shiva and I would be at it throat to throat. I'd be resorting exclusively to insults, inuendo, "you hate America", mockery, ect... because I'd have had nothing else in the bag to defend my "ideal". And no logic means that he'd have pummeled me.

So far a LOT more has been posted arguing, with a decent amount of reason and some contradictory articles, to suggest that. I'd have been pummeled on your side.

There is not much to argue on your side. But if you think so then enlighten me. I'm all ears. If you can prove that you are right then I'll believe you. Honest. I don't hold to the all or none fantasy that if I am wrong on something then I must be wrong on everything. So have at it.

[uppy]

BTW...I question authority every day. I'm in the AF, not the Army. No offense to my Army bretheren.


You must be thinking about the Marine Corps SMS

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[Spartacus]

Mcd, stay safe over there.

It's amazing to me that people are so quick to blame crap on the military. And the majority of those that do have probably (more than likely) never served. And when asked if why not, the answer really doesn't answer the question.

[35Pete]

Mcd, stay safe over there.

It's amazing to me that people are so quick to blame crap on the military.
It amazes me that history shows a repeated pattern of lying by the military. It amazes me that the CIA and psychological operations units of the military readily admit that lying is their primary weapon of choice and only the dead and comatose are not aware of that. It amazes me that so many people, using magical or wishful thinking, are convinced that the CIA, DIA, and military psyops would only lie to the enemy and not to the public. It amazes me that the circumstances leading up to this point in the direction of lying.


And the majority of those that do have probably (more than likely) never served. And when asked if why not, the answer really doesn't answer the question.

This has nothing to do whatsoever with the argument at hand. You logic seems as follows:

a. Pete and Shiva have not served in the US Military
b. Only people with military experience can understand the military
c. Therefore Pete and Shiva do not know what they are talking about.
d. We served in the Military, therefore we know what we are talking about.

d. Threrefore, based on conclusion "c" and "d", the military is being honest, we are correct in our assessment and Pete and Shiva are wrong.


Now, if this is indeed the correct inference, then you are wrong based on these reasons:
1. Serving in the military does jack shit in giving you an understanding of the inner reasoning for activities unless you are sufficiently high ranked with sufficient clearance to be privy to National Security strategy. Being a rank and file guy makes you at best, no more knowledgeable than we are.
2. The culture of follow orders and do not question, initiated in boot camp, makes you LESS likely to look at all sides than someone that did not serve.

And for the record, witnessing the mis-use and overgrowth of the military does not mean that I a.) hate the troops (to the contrary, they are my fellow man. In fact, they have extra opprotunities to be screwed by the gov't once they return to CONUS, b.) that I somehow don't think that we should defend ourselves. Not true, but I don't want us putting nations in positions where they have to defend themselves either. c.) that shrinking the military means that I want to eliminate them.

Furthermore, there is no logical requirement to balance the number of times I believe the side of the military and when I do not believe their side. The observation that I question or criticize the military repeatedly is based on verifiable observations, circumstances at hand, historical precedent and most likely scenarios. You can make no sound logical extension to make the claim, or insinuation that I either hate or do not understand the military based merely on the fact that I did not experience boot camp or military life. In fact, I would opine that my bias would probablistically be less than that of a military man precisely for those reasons.

And to answer your question Spartacus, at 18 I tried to join the Air Force but was rejected on a medical. Today I would not join the military because I believe standing armies to be immoral.

[McD]

You must be thinking about the Marine Corps SMS



Lol, Yeah Uppy the Marines too! Much love to them also.

[McD]

Pete, you're killing me....killing me, lol!!! How about we keep this simple...I do not believe that you have a thing against our Military service members, and I do know you believe W and the rest of the Gov't has used shady tactics in the past to manipulate their desired outcome. I've never disagreed that that has happened. As a matter of fact, I believe ALL nations do this...what do you think? However, what I'm seeing from you is a complete lack of belief that our Gov't is doing everything it can to continue your/our way of life...you know what? That's OK, but again you're arguing with me like I'm the one who won't be reasonable about this. I've looked at both sides of this...I cannot confirm nor deny any of it is anything more than a game between Iran, and the country you earn a living in. Evidently, you have totally shifted sides, and instead of being objective, you automatically say "it's the U.S Gov't doing something shady". Again, this is OK...you may be right, but to say it is one thing, to prove it is another. See I don't have to prove anything because I've never said it happened or didn't. Through this whole thing I've been sticking up for objectivity. This incident is SOOO much more than it appears.

[35Pete]

I'm not sure if this was addressed because I did not read through the entire thread. It is my opinion that the Iranian ships (either Navy or Republican Guard) were simply pulling fighter kock type crap and buzzing the ships yelling out some rhetorical bs. Thankfully neither side escalated it past this point. One thing about ships the size of the Iranians is that very poweful antiship missiles CAN be fired off of boats that small. Ships that size are mainstays of the Russian, North Korean and several other former and current communist countries for close to shore defense (and sometimes offensive uses as well). The types of antiship missiles that could be fired from similar boats would be able to massive damage to smaller warships like the ones like those Navy ships involved. Also my opinion, this was really no different than a couple of fighter jocks from different countries playing chicken with each other at 35,000 feet.

I happen to know a thing or two about military hardware. I used to be a Republican you know.

What Soviet or Chinese anti-ship missile can be fired off of that speedboat? Please don't, at least with a straight face, tell me that a shoulder fired anti-ship missile is what you are talking about.

[uppy]

You still are a member of the GOP you said so last week.


Welcome home Pete !!!!

[Spartacus]

I happen to know a thing or two about military hardware. I used to be a Republican you know.

What Soviet or Chinese anti-ship missile can be fired off of that speedboat? Please don't, at least with a straight face, tell me that a shoulder fired anti-ship missile is what you are talking about.


I'm looking for the name and exact type of missile. There is no known shoulder fired anti-ship missile currently in use anywhere in the world at this time.


And what does "used to be a Republican" have to do with anything?

[35Pete]

I'm looking for the name and exact type of missile. There is no known shoulder fired anti-ship missile currently in use anywhere in the world at this time.


And what does "used to be a Republican" have to do with anything?

A lot of Republicans get erections speaking of cool killing hardware. A lot are in the know.

The stinger missile represented greatness in America. The ability to shoot down an aircraft and kill the man flying it is a glorious notch in the belt of the collective psyche of hard right citizens. It clearly demonstrates we are a superior people. And if you don't agree we'll kick your ass.