My Bills 2008 Mock Off-Season Plan

[wpod]

UPDATED 1/19/08:

Free Agency:

- Sign DT Corey Williams; WR D.J. Hackett; CB Drayton Florence

Draft:

Round 1: WLB Keith Rivers (USC)
Round 2: DE Lawrence Jackson (USC)
Round 3: TE Jermichael Finley (Texas)
Round 3: FB Owen Schmitt (WVU)
Round 4: WR Keenan Burton (Kentucky)
Round 5: OT Barry Richardson (Clemson)
Round 5: OC Fernando Velasco (Georgia)
Round 6: SS/FS Tyrell Johnson (Arkansas State)
Round 7: DT/LS/FB Derek Lokey (Texas)
Round 7: RB Justin Forsett (Cal)

New starters on offense: WR D.J Hackett, TE Jermichael Finley, FB Owen Schmitt

New starters on defense: DT Corey Williams, WLB Keith Rivers, CB Drayton Florence (plus Poz and Simpson return from IR)

I don't know for sure if Jackson would unseat Kelsay at LDE as a rookie...you'd hope so. The more I look at Finley the more I like his potential. OC Velasco has excellent size; if Merz doesn't beat out Fowler, hopefully he will (a little raw; only converted from OG Senior year).

[imontoya]

I like it. I think Fred Davis goes in the 1st round though. I like Martin Rucker in the 2nd, if Davis is gone.

[jaymitch84]

I would definitely like it if the Bills got that USC tandem out of their first two picks.

Both the offense and defense would be effected immediately.

I haven't seen much of Kentucky so I don't know about him...but I'm intrigued by Steve Johnson...he fits the "tall" mold, but is a little on the light side for his height I think (under 200)...but he did have the 2nd most receptions on the tem, by far the most yards, and the most TDs...and this includes higher round picks Keenan Burton and Jacob Tamme being on the roster.

[RyDorf]

No love for Dan Connor at 11 over Rivers?

[FknGvna]

Offensive UFA: tall(er) #2 WR (e.g., Ernest Wilford; Andre Davis; etc.)
Defensive UFA: DT Corey Williams

Round 1: WLB Dan Connor - Penn
Round 2: WR Malcolm Kelly - Oklahoma
Round 3: TE John Carlson - ND
Round 3: CB Rodgers-Cromartie Tenn.


for now.

[wpod]

My first alternate at TE if Davis is gone would be John Carlson; I think many draft sites underrate him now and he could be drafted BEFORE Davis, actually. If they're both gone I would look at Rucker, and if he comes out, Martellus Bennett. If some extraordinary circumstance arises where none of those 4 is there at the 42nd pick(!) I would go CB and take Jacob Tamme in Round 3.

Steve Johnson is 6-2, 200, 4.43. He was Kentucky's (very effective) deep threat receiver this year; I think he actually outplayed Keenan Burton, especially in big games. Remember - this is after I sign a #2 WR in FA; Johnson is someone to develop for the future.

As for Rivers over Connor, it's close but Rivers has a speed advantage; if Rivers is gone and if neither Ellis or Laurinaitis is there, I would take Connor instead.

[FknGvna]

I sure hope Kelly's game dropped his stock last night.

[jaymitch84]

For the Connor guys, why him over Rivers?

[JMNY83]

Draft
1-WR, James Hardy-Indiana
2-TE, Freddy Davis-USC
3-CB, Tracy Porter-Indiana
3-C, Steve Justice-Wake Forrest
4-ILB, Beau Bell-UNLV
5-FB, Peyton Hillis-Arkansas
5-SS, Jamie Silva-Boston College
6-WR, Mario Urrutia-Louisville
7- C, Jamey Richard-Buffalo
7- OT, King Dunlap-Auburn

Offensive FA's
C-Jeff Saturday

Defensive FA's
DT-Corey Williams
LB-Karlos Dansby

[emo]

Draft
1-WR, James Hardy-Indiana
2-TE, Freddy Davis-USC
3-CB, Tracy Porter-Indiana
3-C, Steve Justice-Wake Forrest
4-ILB, Beau Bell-UNLV
5-FB, Peyton Hillis-Arkansas
5-SS, Jamie Silva-Boston College
6-WR, Mario Urrutia-Louisville
7- C, Jamey Richard-Buffalo
7- OT, King Dunlap-Auburn

Offensive FA's
C-Jeff Saturday

Defensive FA's
DT-Corey Williams
LB-Karlos Dansby

this would be a phenomenal draft, I love jamie silva

however there are some issues, king dunlap wont be around in the 3rd much less the 7th, unless something terrible happens, however you never know, beau bell I don't think will last to our first pick in the 3rd.

justice's lack of size and competition in the acc has me slightly worried about him as an nfl player. I'd rather see them get luigs int eh second te ins't as big a need as a center

[JMNY83]

this would be a phenomenal draft, I love jamie silva

however there are some issues, king dunlap wont be around in the 3rd much less the 7th, unless something terrible happens, however you never know, beau bell I don't think will last to our first pick in the 3rd.

justice's lack of size and competition in the acc has me slightly worried about him as an nfl player. I'd rather see them get luigs int eh second te ins't as big a need as a center

True if Luigs fell to the 3rd I'd rather have him over Justice but with the lack of TE's in the draft and FA I'd take Davis at #2.

[wpod]

Silva is a better Safety prospect than Barber; updating my mock now. As for the rest of JMNY83's plan, I think it's pretty aggressive. Signing 3 new starters in FA? Don't know if Ralph would pony up the dough for that. And I HATE the idea of taking Hardy at #11 - that is WAY too early for him. It's a good overall plan but that is my feedback.

[treydawg]

For the Connor guys, why him over Rivers?

Take a look at the stats.

[wpod]

MAJOR UPDATE:

FA/Trading Period: Trade Losman and a 3rd to Detroit for WR Roy Williams...sweeten with a 2009 pick if necessary (no higher than second round). Sign WLB Karlos Dansby, CB Drayton Florence, QB Josh McCown.

Round 1: DT Pat Sims - Auburn; better 1-technique to pair with McCargo. Can stuff run and penetrate backfield, too.
Round 2: TE Martellus Bennett - Texas A&M; 6-7, 255, former basketball player (but good blocker) and personal friend of Kevin Everett
Round 3: OC Cody Wallace - Texas A&M
Round 4: FB Owen Schmitt - WVU
Round 5: DE Tommy Blake - TCU; designated pass rusher
Round 5: SS/FS Jamie Silva - Boston College
Round 6: WR Steve Johnson - Kentucky
Round 7: OT Brandon Keith - Northern Iowa
Round 7: DT/LS/FB Derek Lokey - Texas

Instant offense with Roy Williams and Martellus Bennett. Instant defense with Karlos Dansby, Drayton Florence, and Pat Sims (plus Poz and Simpson coming back). Some may accuse me of a pipe dream but this is a doable off-season plan, actually.

The Roy Williams acquisition alone (given a competent OC) should ignite this offense (finally). Add a better receiving TE (also a Red Zone target) and get a real FB to put in front of Lynch/Jackson when they want to run from the pro set, season with a good OC prospect who might displace Fowler and you should see a transformation of the offense into an honest-to-goodness capable NFL offense. Edwards has to develop, of course, but as long as they hire a competent OC (and keep Schonert and AVP) why wouldn't he?

The defense, meanwhile, gets the tougher DT it's been needing, a beast WLB in Dansby, Poz is back at MLB, Simpson back at FS, and Florence provides a bigger, more physical CB (Greer moves to his natural Nickel position).

[treydawg]

Sims at 11? Are you crazy?!?

[wpod]

Sims at 11? Are you crazy?!?

No; I said they might trade down and take him. He's a second round prospect now but is probably the second best 1-technique prospect (3rd overall) at DT; if he looks good at the Combine he could definitely go in the first round. If he's the right guy to plug the hole in Buffalo's run defense - and I think he might be - then if they signed Karlos Dansby in FA they should take him. If they think they can trade down and do it, the more the merrier.

[imontoya]

MAJOR UPDATE:

FA/Trading Period: Trade Losman and a 3rd to Detroit for WR Roy Williams...sweeten with a 2009 pick if necessary (no higher than second round). Sign WLB Karlos Dansby, CB Drayton Florence, QB Josh McCown.

Round 1: DT Pat Sims - Auburn; better 1-technique to pair with McCargo. Can stuff run and penetrate backfield, too.
Round 2: TE Martellus Bennett - Texas A&M; 6-7, 255, former basketball player (but good blocker) and personal friend of Kevin Everett
Round 3: OC Cody Wallace - Texas A&M
Round 4: FB Owen Schmitt - WVU
Round 5: DE Tommy Blake - TCU; designated pass rusher
Round 5: SS/FS Jamie Silva - Boston College
Round 6: WR Steve Johnson - Kentucky
Round 7: OT Brandon Keith - Northern Iowa
Round 7: DT/LS/FB Derek Lokey - Texas

Instant offense with Roy Williams and Martellus Bennett. Instant defense with Karlos Dansby, Drayton Florence, and Pat Sims (plus Poz and Simpson coming back). Some may accuse me of a pipe dream but this is a doable off-season plan, actually.

The Roy Williams acquisition alone (given a competent OC) should ignite this offense (finally). Add a better receiving TE (also a Red Zone target) and get a real FB to put in front of Lynch/Jackson when they want to run from the pro set, season with a good OC prospect who might displace Fowler and you should see a transformation of the offense into an honest-to-goodness capable NFL offense. Edwards has to develop, of course, but as long as they hire a competent OC (and keep Schonert and AVP) why wouldn't he?

The defense, meanwhile, gets the tougher DT it's been needing, a beast WLB in Dansby, Poz is back at MLB, Simpson back at FS, and Florence provides a bigger, more physical CB (Greer moves to his natural Nickel position).



I'd rather trade up for Sedrick Ellis. If thats impossible I think this could be a good way to go. Or staying at 11 (Campbell/Rivers/Cason/Kelly) and moving back into the first for Sims.

[SaintPatrick]

It looks good, but is too early for Sims. What about giving up a 3rd and 5th for Roy this year instead of and earlier pick next year? I would love to have Schmidt on this team at FB.

[The Chosen]

Why would you want Roy Williams and his issues? He has one year left on his rookie contract, the same situatuation we have with Evans. We are not going to be able to resign them both. IMHO Evans is a harder worker than Williams, with about the same production. I would rather keep Evans, cause we aren't keeping both. That means you would trade Losman and picks ( Plural, meaning more than one ) for a one year and done premadonna? We have too many other needs to give up picks in a very deep draft. we need a receiver to complement Evans not compete with him for receptions. Bryant Johnson would do just fine in FA.

[wpod]

1. Sedrick Ellis and Pat Sims are different DT types; Ellis is a 3-technique (which the Bills already have in McCargo), Sims is a 1-technique (i.e., a better version of Kyle Williams). IMO, if the Bills can trade down in the first round and still get the DT they need to complete their DT rotation, that's a good thing.

2. Why would I want Roy Williams? Because he's an excellent WR with size and he's been very productive as a young WR in a dysfunctional offense (and organization) in Detroit. Williams would be a great complement to Evans and I disagree strongly that the Bills wouldn't keep both Williams and Evans. One of the primary problems with this offense, besides OC and play calling, has been the lack of a legitimate outside WR opposite Evans, someone with a bit more size but who still represents a deep threat. Reed and Parrish are both slot receivers. Williams fits the profile very well and I don't know what "issues" you are referring to but he certainly has less baggage than Ocho Cinco.

[wpod]

Why would you want Roy Williams and his issues? He has one year left on his rookie contract, the same situatuation we have with Evans. We are not going to be able to resign them both. IMHO Evans is a harder worker than Williams, with about the same production. I would rather keep Evans, cause we aren't keeping both. That means you would trade Losman and picks ( Plural, meaning more than one ) for a one year and done premadonna? We have too many other needs to give up picks in a very deep draft. we need a receiver to complement Evans not compete with him for receptions. Bryant Johnson would do just fine in FA.

If the Bills traded for Roy Williams, a sign-and-trade (on both sides) would be part of the deal. In order to use the vertical passing offense from the pro set (play design has been part of Bills offense but hasn't worked in past) you need two WR who can both represent a legitimate deep threat. The Bills have only had Evans. They need a guy like Williams. If they can't get him they can sign Hackett or Johnson in FA but I like Williams better. I wouldn't go higher in draft picks than a 2008 3rd and a 2009 2nd, though.

[jaymitch84]

Why would the Lions want JP Losman? They just drafted Drew Stanton last year in Round 2.

[imontoya]

1. Sedrick Ellis and Pat Sims are different DT types; Ellis is a 3-technique (which the Bills already have in McCargo), Sims is a 1-technique (i.e., a better version of Kyle Williams). IMO, if the Bills can trade down in the first round and still get the DT they need to complete their DT rotation, that's a good thing.


Yeah, I know the difference. The original plan with McCargo was to play him in multiple techniques. With the heavy rotation, I'm not sure he'll play exclusively the 3-tech in 2008. IMO, Ellis is an elite difference-maker the D needs. I'd prefer that over trading down. But who knows, maybe Sims is that guy too.

Also, I think Ellis goes to either the Raiders or the Chiefs. So it would cost a lot to move up.

[wpod]

Yeah, I know the difference. The original plan with McCargo was to play him in multiple techniques. With the heavy rotation, I'm not sure he'll play exclusively the 3-tech in 2008. IMO, Ellis is an elite difference-maker the D needs. I'd prefer that over trading down. But who knows, maybe Sims is that guy too.

Also, I think Ellis goes to either the Raiders or the Chiefs. So it would cost a lot to move up.
That "McCargo at different techniques" stuff has confused me for two years in terms of what else they need in that DT rotation, but I finally decided (on my own) that they were really playing him at the 3-technique almost exclusively in 2007 and therefore they need a better 1-technique to pair with McCargo. I agree Ellis is the better all-around DT than Sims but he'll be harder to draft and I'm hoping the coaching staff realized they at least need to slot McCargo as one or the other in terms of personnel planning. I know this - they only have 3 DTs for a 4-man rotation, and they have struggled to stop the run. That spells 1-technique help to me.

[wpod]

Why would the Lions want JP Losman? They just drafted Drew Stanton last year in Round 2.

Yeah, but he sat out the entire 2007 season on IR with a knee injury. Kitna is getting longer in the tooth and got battered heavily last year, Stanton is a question mark right now, and Millen apparently likes the cut of JP's jib. If that's the case, by all means, I say market Losman plus a pick or two to Millen for Roy Williams. If the rumor turns out to be false (Millen's purported interest in Losman) then move on, but definitely explore that first and find out for sure. The Bills certainly have other WR options this off-season but a Losman-for-Williams trade would be sweet.

[Callaway]

1. Sedrick Ellis and Pat Sims are different DT types; Ellis is a 3-technique (which the Bills already have in McCargo), Sims is a 1-technique (i.e., a better version of Kyle Williams). IMO, if the Bills can trade down in the first round and still get the DT they need to complete their DT rotation, that's a good thing.




You couldn’t be more Wrong. For those of us who actually watched him in college you would know that Ellis has played the 1 tech his entire college career except for this past year where they rotated him between the 2 spots to better utilize him. You would also know that he has been one of if not the best run stuffing DT in college over the past two years. Ellis can play either position at the next level and play better than anyone we already have.

Sims at 11? That’s laughable. Lets draft a guy who just flat out quit on his team 2 years ago and has only had 1 year where he did anything of note more than likely because he smelled an NFL pay check.

[wpod]

You couldn’t be more Wrong. For those of us who actually watched him in college you would know that Ellis has played the 1 tech his entire college career except for this past year where they rotated him between the 2 spots to better utilize him. You would also know that he has been one of if not the best run stuffing DT in college over the past two years. Ellis can play either position at the next level and play better than anyone we already have.

Sims at 11? That’s laughable. Lets draft a guy who just flat out quit on his team 2 years ago and has only had 1 year where he did anything of note more than likely because he smelled an NFL pay check.

I have watched Ellis play, both this year and last. There is a reason they moved him to 3-technique. Yes, he's strong and can stuff the run, but he's most dangerous shooting the gap with his quickness. If you had Sims and Ellis on the same team, Sims would play 1 and Ellis 3. As for Sims at 11, I have said consistently they can probably trade down and still draft him, versus needing to trade up to draft Ellis. Would it be a mistake to trade up for Ellis? No; he's a great DT. But I think it would be even better to keep McCargo at 3, draft Sims for the 1, and maybe pick up an additional 3rd rounder in the bargain, versus having to give up additional picks to have a shot at Ellis. What's so laughable about that?

[kdhammond]

Why would you want Roy Williams and his issues? He has one year left on his rookie contract, the same situatuation we have with Evans. We are not going to be able to resign them both. IMHO Evans is a harder worker than Williams, with about the same production. I would rather keep Evans, cause we aren't keeping both. That means you would trade Losman and picks ( Plural, meaning more than one ) for a one year and done premadonna? We have too many other needs to give up picks in a very deep draft. we need a receiver to complement Evans not compete with him for receptions. Bryant Johnson would do just fine in FA.

Word! You've hit the nail on the head. No team can really go around just collecting high priced players at a specific position. Williams for a year would be nice, but this team isn't a serious playoff threat with or without him. No way you can sacrifice draft choices for a rent-a-player when the team is quite far from legit SB contenders.

I agree, I'd rather they re-up with Evans.

[Merk]

I have watched Ellis play, both this year and last. There is a reason they moved him to 3-technique. Yes, he's strong and can stuff the run, but he's most dangerous shooting the gap with his quickness. If you had Sims and Ellis on the same team, Sims would play 1 and Ellis 3. As for Sims at 11, I have said consistently they can probably trade down and still draft him, versus needing to trade up to draft Ellis. Would it be a mistake to trade up for Ellis? No; he's a great DT. But I think it would be even better to keep McCargo at 3, draft Sims for the 1, and maybe pick up an additional 3rd rounder in the bargain, versus having to give up additional picks to have a shot at Ellis. What's so laughable about that?


They didnt move him there they just put him there in passing downs

He spent at least 85% of his snaps at the 1 tech from the games I saw

[Merk]

MAJOR UPDATE:

FA/Trading Period: Trade Losman and a 3rd to Detroit for WR Roy Williams...sweeten with a 2009 pick if necessary (no higher than second round). Sign WLB Karlos Dansby, CB Drayton Florence, QB Josh McCown.

Round 1: DT Pat Sims - Auburn; better 1-technique to pair with McCargo. Can stuff run and penetrate backfield, too.
Round 2: TE Martellus Bennett - Texas A&M; 6-7, 255, former basketball player (but good blocker) and personal friend of Kevin Everett
Round 3: OC Cody Wallace - Texas A&M
Round 4: FB Owen Schmitt - WVU
Round 5: DE Tommy Blake - TCU; designated pass rusher
Round 5: SS/FS Jamie Silva - Boston College
Round 6: WR Steve Johnson - Kentucky
Round 7: OT Brandon Keith - Northern Iowa
Round 7: DT/LS/FB Derek Lokey - Texas

Instant offense with Roy Williams and Martellus Bennett. Instant defense with Karlos Dansby, Drayton Florence, and Pat Sims (plus Poz and Simpson coming back). Some may accuse me of a pipe dream but this is a doable off-season plan, actually.

The Roy Williams acquisition alone (given a competent OC) should ignite this offense (finally). Add a better receiving TE (also a Red Zone target) and get a real FB to put in front of Lynch/Jackson when they want to run from the pro set, season with a good OC prospect who might displace Fowler and you should see a transformation of the offense into an honest-to-goodness capable NFL offense. Edwards has to develop, of course, but as long as they hire a competent OC (and keep Schonert and AVP) why wouldn't he?

The defense, meanwhile, gets the tougher DT it's been needing, a beast WLB in Dansby, Poz is back at MLB, Simpson back at FS, and Florence provides a bigger, more physical CB (Greer moves to his natural Nickel position).



I dont think Sims is going to be worth a first round pick even if we trade down

Like already mentioned he did quit on the team 2 years ago and reports have him being very lazy at times and not much of a worker

Plus in kind of odd thing that annoyed me a little w/ him, he bassically made his HC TT look like an ass. TT told anyone that would listen that he and Sims talked and said that he was coming back and then Sims a week later declared for the NFL draft and TT had to be filled in about it by the press


I like rounds 2,3,4

I like Blake a lot but even w/ his issues someone will roll the dice on him earlier than round 5. W/out his baggage he'd be a top 25 pick.

The late rounders you have would all be solid picks but I dont think I would take a S in round 5

[wpod]

Word! You've hit the nail on the head. No team can really go around just collecting high priced players at a specific position. Williams for a year would be nice, but this team isn't a serious playoff threat with or without him. No way you can sacrifice draft choices for a rent-a-player when the team is quite far from legit SB contenders.

I agree, I'd rather they re-up with Evans.

Word! Why don't you guys READ the WHOLE thread instead of shooting from the hip?!! Any Losman-for-Williams deal would include sign-and-trade contracts for both players. I said that already, and what's more, I shouldn't have to: NAME THE LAST TIME TWO TEAMS TRADED PLAYERS WITH ONLY 1 YEAR LEFT ON THEIR CONTRACTS AND DIDN'T DO THE SIGN-AND-TRADE THING? Having to explain the same thing multiple times gets really old and frustrating...

[wpod]

I dont think Sims is going to be worth a first round pick even if we trade down

Like already mentioned he did quit on the team 2 years ago and reports have him being very lazy at times and not much of a worker

Plus in kind of odd thing that annoyed me a little w/ him, he bassically made his HC TT look like an ass. TT told anyone that would listen that he and Sims talked and said that he was coming back and then Sims a week later declared for the NFL draft and TT had to be filled in about it by the press


I like rounds 2,3,4

I like Blake a lot but even w/ his issues someone will roll the dice on him earlier than round 5. W/out his baggage he'd be a top 25 pick.

The late rounders you have would all be solid picks but I dont think I would take a S in round 5

I'm actually an Auburn grad; Tommy Tuberville is quite capable of looking like an ass all on his own, although he's a pretty savvy college coach, too. I'm not saying Sims is an angel but when he came back to the team he WORKED his way out of TT's doghouse. Sedrick Ellis is definitely a BEAST and would look great in a Bills uniform, but he's also going to go several picks before #11, and while he's very strong, he's still better at the 3 than the 1 IMO. I also believe the Bills staff retarded McCargo's progress by asking him to play both roles; I'm banking they figured that out and will leave him at 3-technique for the time being. Therefore, it makes more sense to draft a pure 1-technique who has proven he can not only stuff the run but also penetrate and make plays in the backfield, and Pat Sims clearly demonstrated that this year in the SEC and in their bowl game versus a good Clemson offensive line. College kids are just that: kids. They mature at different rates and Sims clearly had some maturing to do in 2005, but he successfully put that behind him, had a good 2006 (5.0 TFL and 3 sacks from 1-technique) and a huge 2007 (11.5 TFL and 4.5 sacks...plus 3 TFL and a sack in the bowl game). Considering they could trade down and get him, and considering the Bills' needs and the lack of DT talent at the top of this draft, I wouldn't take the chance he'll still be there in the second round. If they didn't have McCargo they'd NEED to get Ellis but happily, they can just get Sims instead and get what they need, which is a better 1-technique to play in front of Kyle Williams.

[Merk]

I'm actually an Auburn grad; Tommy Tuberville is quite capable of looking like an ass all on his own, although he's a pretty savvy college coach, too. I'm not saying Sims is an angel but when he came back to the team he WORKED his way out of TT's doghouse. Sedrick Ellis is definitely a BEAST and would look great in a Bills uniform, but he's also going to go several picks before #11, and while he's very strong, he's still better at the 3 than the 1 IMO. I also believe the Bills staff retarded McCargo's progress by asking him to play both roles; I'm banking they figured that out and will leave him at 3-technique for the time being. Therefore, it makes more sense to draft a pure 1-technique who has proven he can not only stuff the run but also penetrate and make plays in the backfield, and Pat Sims clearly demonstrated that this year in the SEC and in their bowl game versus a good Clemson offensive line. College kids are just that: kids. They mature at different rates and Sims clearly had some maturing to do in 2005, but he successfully put that behind him, had a good 2006 (5.0 TFL and 3 sacks from 1-technique) and a huge 2007 (11.5 TFL and 4.5 sacks...plus 3 TFL and a sack in the bowl game). Considering they could trade down and get him, and considering the Bills' needs and the lack of DT talent at the top of this draft, I wouldn't take the chance he'll still be there in the second round. If they didn't have McCargo they'd NEED to get Ellis but happily, they can just get Sims instead and get what they need, which is a better 1-technique to play in front of Kyle Williams.



It all depends on how you have the DT's in this draft graded out

Right now there are 2 elites w/ Ellis and Dorsey

Then there is a group of DT's w/ 2nd round grades some of who could move up to fringe first rounders

I have D.Moore, P.Sims, and K.Balmer all ranked in the same area of the second round and a lot of places like M.Harrison from Arkansas. I personally think he is more of a third rounder but Some like him a lot

So even if we do miss out on Sims there isnt such a difference from him Balmer and Moore that I would think we would need to take Sims in the first round or trade up for him. I see it playing out, if the Bills look to go DT in the 2nd, simular to what happened to the Bills last year when w/ Poz, Durant, and Harris. All simular grades and all players that fit the system we run.

[wpod]

It all depends on how you have the DT's in this draft graded out

Right now there are 2 elites w/ Ellis and Dorsey

Then there is a group of DT's w/ 2nd round grades some of who could move up to fringe first rounders

I have D.Moore, P.Sims, and K.Balmer all ranked in the same area of the second round and a lot of places like M.Harrison from Arkansas. I personally think he is more of a third rounder but Some like him a lot

So even if we do miss out on Sims there isnt such a difference from him Balmer and Moore that I would think we would need to take Sims in the first round or trade up for him. I see it playing out, if the Bills look to go DT in the 2nd, simular to what happened to the Bills last year when w/ Poz, Durant, and Harris. All simular grades and all players that fit the system we run.
That's a cogent and intelligent analysis of the situation. However, I simply disagree about Sims vs Balmer and Moore; I believe those two will definitely be second round picks (at best; Moore might not go until early in Round 3 even). They're good players but a notch below Sims in talent, I think. Just my opinion; we won't know until it unfolds on Draft Day. It's possible Sims could go as late as early in Round 2; he'd obviously be a better value at #41 than somewhere in the first round, and they could take that chance. I just wouldn't.

[wpod]

Tweaked based on feedback:

FA/Trading Period: Trade Losman and #42 pick to Detroit for WR Roy Williams. Sign WLB Karlos Dansby, CB Drayton Florence, QB Josh McCown.

Round 1: TRADE DOWN (i.e., to #21, picking up #53 pick, as example) DT Pat Sims - Auburn; better 1-technique to pair with McCargo. Trade down replaces 2nd lost in Roy Williams deal.
Round 2: TE Martellus Bennett - Texas A&M; 6-7, 255, former basketball player (but good blocker) and personal friend of Kevin Everett
Round 3: OC Cody Wallace - Texas A&M
Round 3: FB Owen Schmitt - WVU
Round 4: DE Tommy Blake - TCU; designated pass rusher
Round 5: OT Barry Richardson - Clemson
Round 5: SS/FS Jamie Silva - Boston College
Round 6: WR Steve Johnson - Kentucky
Round 7: RB Justin Forsett - Cal
Round 7: DT/LS/FB Derek Lokey - Texas

Instant offense with Roy Williams and Martellus Bennett. Instant defense with Karlos Dansby, Drayton Florence, and Pat Sims (plus Poz and Simpson coming back). Some may accuse me of a pipe dream but this is a doable off-season plan, actually.

The Roy Williams acquisition alone (given a competent OC) should ignite this offense (finally). Add a better receiving TE (also a Red Zone target) and get a real FB to put in front of Lynch/Jackson when they want to run from the pro set, season with a good OC prospect who might displace Fowler and you should see a transformation of the offense into an honest-to-goodness capable NFL offense. Edwards has to develop, of course, but as long as they hire a competent OC (and keep Schonert and AVP) why wouldn't he?

The defense, meanwhile, gets the tougher DT it's been needing, a beast WLB in Dansby, Poz is back at MLB, Simpson back at FS, and Florence provides a bigger, more physical CB (Greer moves to his natural Nickel position).

[wpod]

* - Per WR Roy Williams trade idea; different printed reports (rumors) out of Detroit said Millen might be interested in Losman, while others said he might be interested in defensive help and/or picks for Williams. If the Losman rumor is unfounded I would definitely offer Kelsay and the #42 pick for Williams instead. DE is a problem area for Detroit (Kalimba Edwards ended season suspended for lack of performance by Rod Marinelli). Lack of effort has never been an issue for Kelsay, although production has.

In any case, this is another reason why trading down to take DT Pat Sims in the first round can really help; it would allow the Bills to package their 2nd with a player to get the WR they desparately need (and whom Matt Millen is willing to let go for the right deal) and still get back into the second round to also get a better receiving TE.

[FknGvna]

I'm on the guy from Texas bandwagon. I think Finley?

[The Beef]

whoever had stev ejohnson ain teh 6th was a great thought.

i'm really interested for the combine and dto see what it does for that guy's stock. he was a beast at kentucky this year. he played his best games against the big boys in the sec. and he's got good size.

[The Chosen]

If the Bills traded for Roy Williams, a sign-and-trade (on both sides) would be part of the deal. In order to use the vertical passing offense from the pro set (play design has been part of Bills offense but hasn't worked in past) you need two WR who can both represent a legitimate deep threat. The Bills have only had Evans. They need a guy like Williams. If they can't get him they can sign Hackett or Johnson in FA but I like Williams better. I wouldn't go higher in draft picks than a 2008 3rd and a 2009 2nd, though.

Of course it would have to be a sign and trade. You failed to read the part that both guys are going to require #1 WR $$$. That ain't happening. You can forget Roy Williams, period. I think all of us would take him, but it just is not going to happen. Not to mention, why would we give up draft picks when we have so many holes that can be filled in this draft? We also need a guy like Tom Brady, that doesn't mean we will get him.

[wpod]

whoever had stev ejohnson ain teh 6th was a great thought.

i'm really interested for the combine and dto see what it does for that guy's stock. he was a beast at kentucky this year. he played his best games against the big boys in the sec. and he's got good size.

That would be me; I think he'd be a fantastic late round development project.

[LotteryPick]

I'm on the guy from Texas bandwagon. I think Finley?

I think Finely is a great pick. One of our two 3rd rounders should be good enough to snatch him and I think he'd work perfectly for us. Great potential.

[wpod]

*bump*

UPDATED 1/19/08:

Free Agency:

- Sign DT Corey Williams; WR D.J. Hackett; CB Drayton Florence

Draft:

Round 1: WLB Keith Rivers (USC)
Round 2: TE Martellus Bennett (Texas A&M)
Round 3: WR Devin Thomas (Michigan State)
Round 3: FB Owen Schmitt (WVU)
Round 4: DE Chris Harrington (Texas A&M)
Round 5: OT Barry Richardson (Clemson)
Round 5: OC Fernando Velasco (Georgia)
Round 6: SS/FS Tyrell Johnson (Arkansas State)
Round 7: DT/LS/FB Derek Lokey (Texas)
Round 7: RB Justin Forsett (Cal)

[kdhammond]

Word! Why don't you guys READ the WHOLE thread instead of shooting from the hip?!! Any Losman-for-Williams deal would include sign-and-trade contracts for both players. I said that already, and what's more, I shouldn't have to: NAME THE LAST TIME TWO TEAMS TRADED PLAYERS WITH ONLY 1 YEAR LEFT ON THEIR CONTRACTS AND DIDN'T DO THE SIGN-AND-TRADE THING? Having to explain the same thing multiple times gets really old and frustrating...

I am not "shooting from the hip". I did read the entire post. Just because you said it would include a sign and trade clause doesn't make it any more plausible to have two very high-priced WRs on the same team. IMHO - and I guess that is all it is, the Bills cannot
legitimately afford both Evans and Williams. They need to spread their spending out across an entire team. Where this team stands now, they need a LOT of upgrade on BOTH sides of the ball.

Calm down, man. I wasn't attacking you. Generally, your posts are well thought out. I happen to disagree with your stance on this one, that's all. You didn't need the all-high and mighty "Having to explaing the same thing multiple times...".

[admarc]

I really like the first 3 picks. I also think Velasco and Lokey could be late round steals. Nice job !

On the other hand, I wouldn't want the Bills to touch Blake. Tommy Blake showed up at the East West Shrine practices 30 pounds heavier than his playing weight. By several accounts he looks slow and out of shape. He likely has gone from a sure first rounder to dropping completely off most draft boards.

GBN: (http://www.gbnreport.com/index.htm)

Meanwhile, the big story out of this week‘s Shrine Bowl practices has been the fact that TCU DE Tommy Blake weighed in in Houston at 287 pounds, over 30 more than his normal playing weight. And not surprisingly, the extra weight has noticeably slowed down Blake who had been an ultra quick tweener DE with the Horned Frog. Indeed, Blake had been considered a potential late first round pick heading into the season, but played little this past season as he took a couple of leaves of absence for undisclosed health reasons.

[wpod]

Sorry kdhammond; I'll try to be less bombastic going forward.

admarc: I read a scouting report on Tommy Blake from East-West Shrine Bowl practices that said he's overweight and getting swallowed up by most LTs, so I actually dropped him in favor of Chris Harrington in my mock. I updated the top of this thread but forgot to update the bump. You're right; at this point I wouldn't touch Blake either.

[FknGvna]

I never liked him and was unimpressed with the game I watched.

[wpod]

UPDATED 1/19/08:

Free Agency:

- Sign DT Corey Williams; WR D.J. Hackett; CB Drayton Florence

Draft:

Round 1: WLB Keith Rivers (USC)
Round 2: DE Lawrence Jackson (USC)
Round 3: TE Jermichael Finley (Texas)
Round 3: FB Owen Schmitt (WVU)
Round 4: WR Keenan Burton (Kentucky)
Round 5: OT Barry Richardson (Clemson)
Round 5: OC Fernando Velasco (Georgia)
Round 6: SS/FS Tyrell Johnson (Arkansas State)
Round 7: DT/LS/FB Derek Lokey (Texas)
Round 7: RB Justin Forsett (Cal)

Sorry to keep juggling this...

[FknGvna]

UPDATED 1/19/08:

Free Agency:

- Sign DT Corey Williams; WR D.J. Hackett; CB Drayton Florence

Draft:

Round 1: WLB Keith Rivers (USC)
Round 2: DE Lawrence Jackson (USC)
Round 3: TE Jermichael Finley (Texas)
Round 3: FB Owen Schmitt (WVU)
Round 4: WR Jordy Nelson (Kansas State)
Round 5: OT Barry Richardson (Clemson)
Round 5: OC Fernando Velasco (Georgia)
Round 6: SS/FS Tyrell Johnson (Arkansas State)
Round 7: DT/LS/FB Derek Lokey (Texas)
Round 7: RB Justin Forsett (Cal)

Sorry to keep juggling this...

put it in ur sig.

[wpod]

put it in ur sig.

Good suggestion; done.

[FknGvna]

UPDATED 1/19/08:

Free Agency:

- Sign DT Corey Williams; WR D.J. Hackett; CB Drayton Florence

Draft:

Round 1: WLB Keith Rivers (USC)
Round 2: DE Lawrence Jackson (USC)
Round 3: TE Jermichael Finley (Texas)
Round 3: FB Owen Schmitt (WVU)
Round 4: WR Jordy Nelson (Kansas State)
Round 5: OT Barry Richardson (Clemson)
Round 5: OC Fernando Velasco (Georgia)
Round 6: SS/FS Tyrell Johnson (Arkansas State)
Round 7: DT/LS/FB Derek Lokey (Texas)
Round 7: RB Justin Forsett (Cal)

Sorry to keep juggling this...

we got some similarites

1. U Know Who Fits HERE lb
2. A. Bowman wr
3a. J. Carlson te/ my heart says J. Finley
3b. C. Wallace c
4. O. Schmitt fb
5a. J. Nelson wr
5b. C. Jackson cb
6. J. Silva-hell everyone else likes him. Safety help.
7a. C. Johnson lb
7b. J. Tryon-24 out of 236

[wpod]

My mock is screwed if they can't sign Corey Williams, though. Gotta get another DT.

[FknGvna]

I don't have one either. Hoping for Williams too. I want Shaun Rogers to tell the truth.

[Sammy Avalon]

If the Bills traded for Roy Williams, a sign-and-trade (on both sides) would be part of the deal. In order to use the vertical passing offense from the pro set (play design has been part of Bills offense but hasn't worked in past) you need two WR who can both represent a legitimate deep threat. The Bills have only had Evans. They need a guy like Williams. If they can't get him they can sign Hackett or Johnson in FA but I like Williams better. I wouldn't go higher in draft picks than a 2008 3rd and a 2009 2nd, though.

Here's the problem IMO: Evans and Williams are both first round draft picks and both are going to want #1 money. I would love it too but I highly doubt it's going to happen. The only way I see us getting Roy Williams is if Evans suddenly decides he wants out of Buffalo.

We need to get a #2 to complement in FA and not another #1 to compete for Evans spot.