The fight in Afghanistan is going poorly

[Green Lantern]

I thought this fight was going well; meaning not turning interminable. There is now "growing support" in that country for the Taliban.

This sucks.


WASHINGTON - President Bush will soon start holding periodic videoconferences with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, a move that reflects growing concern over continued violence that is making this the deadliest year in Afghanistan since the U.S.-led invasion in 2001.

The videoconferences, over a secure link, go along with reviews that the Bush administration and its NATO allies are conducting of their mission in Afghanistan. The reassessments point out a need to find better ways to coordinate the fight against al-Qaida and the hardline Taliban, help Karzai gain greater control outside the Afghan capital of Kabul and curb opium cultivation that bankrolls insurgents

"I can assure you that there are many people considering the situation in Afghanistan on an ongoing basis. They're constantly reviewing our posture, and that includes having dialogue with our allies in NATO," White House press secretary Dana Perino said Monday...

Gates also acknowledged during questioning by a Congressional committee recently that opinion polls of Afghans show increasing support for the radical Taliban...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071217/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_afghanistan

[Gibby]

the reasons why we will lose Afghanistan are found in this thread.
http://buffalorange.com/showthread.php?p=1855094#post1855094

and this post.
Indeed it is not, btw, Afghanistan is the jagged rock that has gashed the foot of no less than five empires (Persian, they pissed Persian kings off by running away and refusing to fight; Greek, Alexander just bribed them off to leave his supply lines alone; Mongol, essentially the same as Alexander; British, read Farwell and Kipling of the two wars that according to Farwell "always consisted of two parts, the first half saw oustanding British success and the second part saw them defeated by the Afghans; Soviet Union, we all saw how that one went) and now we are the sixth.

Foreign armies do not win there for a number of reasons

1) Terrain, talk about your home field advantage the terrain always suits the defenders there and you cannot fight a conventional war there. Instead its one of guerrilla hit run and hide which always favors the defense. Lets not forget that these guys grew up there and we have to learn what they always knew

2) Xenophobia, they hate outsiders more than they hate each other and really there is no such thing as an Afghani. Its rather like early America on crack because they are Pashtun etc but not Afghani. Afghan is a geographical term and they are tribal. Turns out the tribes all hate each other and the only thing that bands them together is foreign forces. Ain't that a bitch?

3) Heritage, come on you don't think oral tradition exists there on how pa ko'd the red army, how great great grand pa knocked out John Bull (England), how before that it was the Persians, Mongols and other people Gibby forgot to write? Oh yeah and who needs foreign weapons when you can make your own? That's no typo they know how to make their own rifles at least they did when they faced the British

4) Historical ignorance, invaders fail to learn from the past

5) Along with number one, there is no such thing as Afghanistan outside of a geographica term. This is highly important as you have to make peace with the right tribes because often the weaker tribes ally with outside forces happened again and again in the past and its happening now and when you ally with them the other stronger tribes fight you. You ally with the one of the stronger tribes the other tribes get lesser tribes to strike you. Good luck with your Afghan army because its not working and won't. You do have a chance with an integrated Iraqi army (slim chance but a chance) but not an Afghan national army as they are truly tribe before state.

[35Pete]

Gotta be in there long enough to complete the oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Sea.

Things were going well in negotiations between the Taliban and The Bush Administration until just prior to 911. Then things broke down.

[Green Lantern]

Gotta be in there long enough to complete the oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Sea.

Things were going well in negotiations between the Taliban and The Bush Administration until just prior to 911. Then things broke down.

I remember a journalist from the London Telegraph writing about the gas pipelines before we went to war. And about the negotiations. The people I showed the article to did not like the insinuation.

[35Pete]

I remember a journalist from the London Telegraph writing about the gas pipelines before we went to war. And about the negotiations. The people I showed the article to did not like the insinuation.

Give it a year ago and I would have been one of them. I don't recall you posting that?

[Green Lantern]

Give it a year ago and I would have been one of them.

Cannon were still firing there and US oil execs were getting off planes in Kabul.

[35Pete]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/35Pete/bushistan.jpg

[anEinherjer]

Pete, how do all these things fit into the Big Conspiracy:

1. Building gas pipelines through Afghanistan.
2. Talking nicey nice with the Tali's to help with #1.
3. False flag blow up our own most expensive / sq ft space in the U.S.
4. Go to war and blow up the Tali's because of #3.

I don't know how you true believers keep it all straight. Are you saying the Tali's weren't going along with the oil program and that's why we beat on them?

[Green Lantern]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/35Pete/bushistan.jpg

Is that Telly Savalas?

[35Pete]

Pete, how do all these things fit into the Big Conspiracy:

1. Building gas pipelines through Afghanistan.
2. Talking nicey nice with the Tali's to help with #1.
3. False flag blow up our own most expensive / sq ft space in the U.S.
4. Go to war and blow up the Tali's because of #3.

I don't know how you true believers keep it all straight. Are you saying the Tali's weren't going along with the oil program and that's why we beat on them?

Those are just the facts anEin. Coincidence? Maybe. Add that to coincidence #1,203,403.

Man it's been an era of a lot of coincidences, huh?

#4 is your assertion not mine. Just Afghanistan wouldn't be worth it.

[35Pete]

Pete, how do all these things fit into the Big Conspiracy:

1. Building gas pipelines through Afghanistan.
2. Talking nicey nice with the Tali's to help with #1.
3. False flag blow up our own most expensive / sq ft space in the U.S.
4. Go to war and blow up the Tali's because of #3.

I don't know how you true believers keep it all straight. Are you saying the Tali's weren't going along with the oil program and that's why we beat on them?

Guess I had better learn to keep my mouth shut, huh?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/35Pete/itswar.jpg

[anEinherjer]

Settle down Pete I'm not even close to suggesting that you shut up, and for you to suggest otherwise is totally disingenuous.

I seriously don't understand what you're calling "coincidence" here: If the Tali's were a part of the Big Oil Pipeline plan, why did we go to war and beat the shit out of them? I don't understand how it's supposed to work.

I mean, if it was all about Big Oil and making money, wouldn't it have made much more sense to keep working the economic angles with the Tali, and wipe 'em out with covert ops if they didn't go along, rather than make up some giant false flag op which included wiping out billions from the US economy in the process? They could have had their pipelines done by now, worked it out with the Tali and kept the WTC (and all its incredible money-making operations) around...

[Gibby]

Settle down Pete I'm not even close to suggesting that you shut up, and for you to suggest otherwise is totally disingenuous.

I seriously don't understand what you're calling "coincidence" here: If the Tali's were a part of the Big Oil Pipeline plan, why did we go to war and beat the shit out of them? I don't understand how it's supposed to work.

I mean, if it was all about Big Oil and making money, wouldn't it have made much more sense to keep working the economic angles with the Tali, and wipe 'em out with covert ops if they didn't go along, rather than make up some giant false flag op which included wiping out billions from the US economy in the process? They could have had their pipelines done by now, worked it out with the Tali and kept the WTC (and all its incredible money-making operations) around...

Why did Hitler go to war with Stalin? Seriously the USSR was sending Germany petrol, grain, steel, and the two nations were heavily engaged in trade according to both Soviet (Walter Krivitsky) and German spy masters. Sure they had oposing viewpoints -to put it extremely mildly- but Hitler decided to invade anyway. So what the hell is Gibby bringing this up you ask, okay AnEin I'll tell you why its the fact that when in trade with someone you give them the money, when you own someone you keep the money.

[Gilly]

Those are just the facts anEin. Coincidence? Maybe. Add that to coincidence #1,203,403.

Man it's been an era of a lot of coincidences, huh?

#4 is your assertion not mine. Just Afghanistan wouldn't be worth it.

i have a question about all the conspiracies and coincidences...

when Bush leaves office in a year does the person elected automatically become the new big bad guy? i realize Bush will be blamed for everything bad that happens in the next couple years (economy, wars, stubbed toes, unwanted pregnacies etc..) my question is the person elected will they plan and execute a 9/11? sell US out for big oil? take away all our rights? etc.

who will petey and the other lefty loons blame for all the ills THEY believe to exist in our country?

[Gibby]

i have a question about all the conspiracies and coincidences...

when Bush leaves office in a year does the person elected automatically become the new big bad guy? i realize Bush will be blamed for everything bad that happens in the next couple years (economy, wars, stubbed toes, unwanted pregnacies etc..) my question is the person elected will they plan and execute a 9/11? sell US out for big oil? take away all our rights? etc.

who will petey and the other lefty loons blame for all the ills THEY believe to exist in our country?

In my view yes, but let me explain. People will not vote in the primaries and straw polls and they will not get their voice heard and so the interest groups and corporatists will get out their vote and money and bury the voice of the Paulists, Kucinichites, and others so that by the time of the national conventions for both parties the candidates for the general election will be safely vetted so that no matter who you vote for you are voting for the corporatists, lobbyists, and their global view. Ain't that a bitch?

[Bellowing4DaBills]

I mean, if it was all about Big Oil and making money, wouldn't it have made much more sense to keep working the economic angles with the Tali, and wipe 'em out with covert ops if they didn't go along, rather than make up some giant false flag op which included wiping out billions from the US economy in the process?


Just answering your question, so don't think I believe in all this conspiracy stuff....

Big Oil and military dependent businesses and the politicians who gain power from their support don't care about wiping out billions from the US economy when their profits soar with two wars in the middle east.

Kind of a dumb question.

[anEinherjer]

Um, aren't the profits of "Big Oil and military dependent businesses" et al affected when the entire US economy takes a huge hit? Not to mention the interconnections between giant companies that was centered in the WTC?

I don't see how the balance sheet would add up.

[35Pete]

Settle down Pete I'm not even close to suggesting that you shut up, and for you to suggest otherwise is totally disingenuous.

I seriously don't understand what you're calling "coincidence" here: If the Tali's were a part of the Big Oil Pipeline plan, why did we go to war and beat the shit out of them? I don't understand how it's supposed to work.

I mean, if it was all about Big Oil and making money, wouldn't it have made much more sense to keep working the economic angles with the Tali, and wipe 'em out with covert ops if they didn't go along, rather than make up some giant false flag op which included wiping out billions from the US economy in the process? They could have had their pipelines done by now, worked it out with the Tali and kept the WTC (and all its incredible money-making operations) around...
It's not just about the oil and gas pipelines anEin. Iraq and Iran have huge reserves, plus Iraq was planning on converting it's market from Petodollars to PetroEuros. Iran to follow suit and from what I know they still plan on it.

Dissolve the Wall Street Petrodollar Cycle and this nation goes belly up. That's what I believe this is all about. "Protecting America's Vital Interests".

But they had to lie about it to go take over those nations and install friendly puppet govt's that would assure oil and the petrodollar cycle continuation.

[Bellowing4DaBills]

Um, aren't the profits of "Big Oil and military dependent businesses" et al affected when the entire US economy takes a huge hit? Not to mention the interconnections between giant companies that was centered in the WTC?

I don't see how the balance sheet would add up.

This is dumb.

Are you saying wars in the Middle East does not benefit the bottom lines of military dependent businesses and oil related companies ?

Why the hell would Exxon or Lockheed care if the US government is in debt and Apple Corp. stock is tanking when they are the ones with the gov't billion dollar contracts ?

Lockheed wasn't gonna sell a fighter jet to the mook who just his lost house anyways. Exxon's gonna sell oil no matter what around the world but now at a $100 a barrell.

If you don't believe me, just check their balance sheets.

[anEinherjer]

So on one hand people like you (not necessarily you, bellowin', but certainly people like you) decry the fact that corporations have a bottom-line-only, next quarter results mentality... but yet in this one case, these particular companies have a century-long view of the world? They'll take on the biggest false flag op in the history of the world, take a big economic hit for a few years, just on the chance that they might be able to pull off the biggest treasonous heist in history? And it's alllllll connected?

I'll be sure to remember the "dumb" comments, though. That's much appreciated.

[shiva2999]

So on one hand people like you (not necessarily you, bellowin', but certainly people like you) decry the fact that corporations have a bottom-line-only, next quarter results mentality...

http://100veces.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/strawman.jpg

[г]

I thought Afghani Pipeline was an Italian girl ?

[Bellowing4DaBills]

So on one hand people like you (not necessarily you, bellowin', but certainly people like you) decry the fact that corporations have a bottom-line-only, next quarter results mentality... but yet in this one case, these particular companies have a century-long view of the world? They'll take on the biggest false flag op in the history of the world, take a big economic hit for a few years, just on the chance that they might be able to pull off the biggest treasonous heist in history? And it's alllllll connected?

I'll be sure to remember the "dumb" comments, though. That's much appreciated.

I know you're trying to convolute a very simple concept that's been in practise in human history from the beginning of time... powerful people motivating large groups of people to war for their economic gain.

We've established that economic gain could be achieved through middle east wars even though you've tried to play dumb about it.

As to whether these people had in their eyes, the goal of riches or the good will of their people by starting these wars, I'll let you guys discuss that.

[Green Lantern]

Give it a year ago and I would have been one of them. I don't recall you posting that?

No. This was 2002. I found it at work, did not have a home computer, and had never heard of the Buffalorange.