Mitchell Report

[Orange Nation]

The Mitchell report has reportedly been sent to the commissioner's office (agreement stated that the commissioner must recieve it at least 24 hours prior to the public release), and appearantly it will be released Thursday. Reportedly will name between 60-80 names.

Mike & The Mad Dog spent a lot of time on this today and had some pretty interesting stuff, for those of us in the NY area or with YES access who happened to catch some of it. Certainly it will be a HOT topic for a while following it's release, so I figured I would start a thread now so we can speculate and discuss prior to and following the release.

According to roto, a substantial percentage will be New York Mets. Former Baltimore Oriole & New York Met 1st baseman David Segui has already come forward that he used steroids

I expect it to be pretty revealing and earth-shattering. Looking forward to Thursday.

[imontoya]

Will this lead to any suspensions? or is it simply putting the names out there?

[Orange Nation]

Will this lead to any suspensions? or is it simply putting the names out there?

players named in the report are likely to face discipline that will be less severe than the 50-game suspensions now in place for first-time positive tests for steroids. The discipline imposed will probably be based on the penalties in place in baseball when the player’s violations occurred. Baseball did not have penalty testing for steroids until 2004 and did not ban H.G.H. until before to the 2005 season.

[imontoya]

I'm interested to see which pitchers are on it, particularly if any of the older harder throwing guys, say Smoltz, Schilling, Clemens.

[Orange Nation]

i have a hard time see schliing on it just because he's so outspoken about it....but then again he's outspoken on everything...haha

[BF_in_Indiana]

Hopefully no Cardinals are on it though I'm sure there are.

[unklechucky]

Just interesting to see, just for curiosity sake.

[slowpokemcgee]

i have a hard time see schliing on it just because he's so outspoken about it....but then again he's outspoken on everything...haha

He's too busy playing World of Warcraft to take steroids.

[BigPapi]

ESPN.com is reporting a former Yankees trainer dropped Clemens name as a steriod user. This will be the day that the past 15 or so years will officially become the steriod era.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153129

[buffjills]

i have a hard time see schliing on it just because he's so outspoken about it....but then again he's outspoken on everything...haha

Palmeiro was pretty outspoken about it too...

[JEvans14]

Less than 2 1/2 hours and we'll know for sure.

So far names that have been released are Clemons and Pettitte.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

"It's going to be a rough day in the Bronx," the paper quoted the source as saying.

It's going to be a rough day for me, as a die-hard Yankee fan. In my eyes, if there are several big-time Yankees on this list, it'll tarnish the dynasty. I just hope guys like Jeter and O'Neill aren't on it.

[Scary Good]

Pettite = innocent
If O'Neill is on it, I will kill myself.

[Orange Nation]

Why do you say Pettitte is innocent?

[Sabres244]

I'm very shocked that Petitte has been named...

There's gonna be some shockers, baseball is gonna take a major hit today

[Orange Nation]

Shaun Assael from ESPN says Pettitte's and Clemens's trainer gave both of them steroids. And that Clemens had more than one supply line of steroids.

[Orange Nation]

John Heyman says Mike Stanton and Chuck Knoblauch on the list.

[jlpubarch]

I can't wait to hear the whiny excuse makers on here for the Yankees.

That organizations' complete corruption from top to bottom will be revealed.

I'm not saying the BoSox are innocent, either...they're probably just as guilty, but I think it'll be a true revelation as to how far these teams will go to win and sell merch.

My guess:

5-6 Yankees
3-4 BoSox

0 KC Royals
0 Pitts Pirates

[BigPapi]

Well all 30 teams were named. No surprise here.

[jaymitch84]

I hope people lay off Barry Bonds now that their own team's favorite players could/will be named.

Or I hope the people that keep attacking Bonds openly attack the steroid using players on their own favorite teams.

[BigPapi]

Well the Mitchell investigation did not get everyone to talk were as the BALCO investigation is completly seperate. The Mitchell Report is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure Bonds will get his soon enough. Don't worry I am an equal opportunity basher and all those cheaters on that list will get thiers.

[bozman949]

is there a full list of guys named? I'm looking through the mitchell report http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf and there's a lot of words to go through.

Just gimme a damn list!!! :)

[BigPapi]

Bonds is in there as well. right around page 280

[BuffaloSoldier2]

is there a full list of guys named? I'm looking through the mitchell report http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf and there's a lot of words to go through.

Just gimme a damn list!!! :)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/13/mitchell.news/index.html?eref=T1

Roger Clemens, Miguel Tejada and Andy Pettitte were named in the long-awaited Mitchell Report on Thursday, an All-Star roster linked to steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs that put a question mark -- if not an asterisk -- next to some of baseball's biggest moments.

Barry Bonds, already under indictment on charges of lying to a federal grand jury about steroids, and Gary Sheffield also showed up in baseball's most infamous lineup since the Black Sox scandal.

Besides Clemens and Pettitte, other ex-Yankees named include Mike Stanton, Chuck Knoblauch and Jason Grimsley. Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts also is in the report, as is Yankees and Braves postseason hero David Justice.

Other players include: Troy Glaus, Gary Matthews Jr., Rick Ankiel, Jay Gibbons, Mo Vaughn, Paul Lo Duca, Eric Gagne, Glenallen Hill, Gregg Zaun, Rondell White, Hal Morris, Todd Hundley, Larry Bigbie, Lenny Dykstra, David Segui, Matt Herges, Kevin Brown, Mike Lansing, Wally Joyner, Nook Logan, Jeremy Giambi, Benito Santiago, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Fernando Vina, Todd Pratt, Jack Cust, Matt Williams, John Rocker, Paul Byrd, F.P. Santangelo and Randy Velarde

I believe all of the names, but John Rocker??? Say it ain't so, John. :(

[BF_in_Indiana]

No notable Cardinals on the list.

Gary Bennett, Rick Ankiel (although it does mention his medical use and state that no disciplinary action was taken), and Fernando Vina who is retired and played for lots of teams.

[BF_in_Indiana]

Larry Bigbie as well although I think he was cut after last year. He was only there for 2006.

[Orange Nation]

Considering the sources he had to work with i'm not gonna go crazy here and scream bias. Bottom line is he did what he was hired to do. Just because there weren't more Red Sox named doesnt mean it was intentional, he just did the best he could with what he had to work with. I highly doubt his intentions were to downplay use by Red Sox players and make an extra effort to exploit Yankee users. If one of the informants for this investigation were a Red Sox clubhouse employee, like Radomsky with the Mets, i'm sure Mitchell would have tried to get as much information from him as possible, and published it in his report. Bottom line is they're all liars and cheaters. It pains me to feel this way, but when you find out some peoples heroes are nothing but frauds and cheaters it brings about an unexpected mix of emotions.

We all know that this list is the tip of the iceberg. It wasn't biased- it was partial information. They had one source who gave them tons of information. Far from a comprehensive report- and I'm not saying they didnt try, they just could only get a few people on record and the rest of the people wouldnt talk. Not their fault, but definitely notable when discussing the successes and failures, strengths and shortcomings of this report.

Beyond the names, the report talks of an internal-affairs like unit in baseball. Whether Mitchell's ideas are used or not remains to be seen. I would say that his future recommendations are much more important than the names on the list. The names just bring it enough attention for people to care enough for the recommendations to occur.

If your concern over George Mitchell conducting the investigation didn't exist before the list came out, then it shouldn't exist now if you apply the list to what we know about his sources of information. Bottom line, this isn't the complete list. It's the list of those who were unfortunate enough to have their suppliers caught. That's it.

Mitchell wasn't a bad choice at all. He's too well respected and has too good a reputation for him to lose any credibility. I think Mitchell was a fine choice. On one hand you're keeping it within the hands of someone who is in some aspect within the game of baseball, while still issuing responsibility to a well-respected former congressman. He did a good job considering he didn't have much cooperation and practically nothing to work with.

It's kind of sad, really. A guy with Mitchell's rep and resume is going to get dragged through the mud all because of a rivalry. Pathetic.

[bozman949]

From Yahoo....

LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-mitchellnames121307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

NEW NAMES

Chad Allen
Mike Bell
Gary Bennett
Larry Bigbie
Kevin Brown
Alex Cabrera
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Matt Franco
Eric Gagne
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Todd Hundley
Mike Judd
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Armando Rios
Brian Roberts
F.P. Santangelo
Mike Stanton
Ricky Stone
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun

PREVIOUSLY LINKED

Manny Alexander
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Ricky Bones
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Paxton Crawford
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Ryan Franklin
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Juan Gonzalez
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Darren Holmes
Ryan Jorgensen
Gary Matthews Jr.
Rafael Palmeiro
John Rocker
Benito Santiago
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
Matt Williams

[Scary Good]

The Bo Sox were covered up, due to his affiliation, obviously...Big papi ;)

[BigPapi]

The Bo Sox were covered up, due to his affiliation, obviously...Big papi ;)

Well is pretty obvious, b/c of his affiliation with the Sox this was clearly a inside job to bring down the Bronx.

[Orange Nation]

So, Dan Duquette was right.

[BF_in_Indiana]

To be honest this report isn't much of anything. You have like 80 names and only like 5 of them are big name players. This is what we waited months for?

Laughable.

[bozman949]

Roger Clemens should be run over like people have run over Barry Bonds.

[Callaway]

3 problems I have with this report

1. A lot of it is heresay which is why Mitchell suggested Selig doesnt hand down punishments. Yet Selig being the Dumb Shit he is has already said he will

2.I dont like how these players listed will be the only ones to be crucified even though there are still likely hundreds of other players that used PED's. For lack of a better comparision its like a DWI driver the only difference between him and most of you is he got caught

3.C.Cowherd made an excellent point earlier today. A lot of people will forget about the trainers involment in this and the money that drove them. Say Gregg Zaun for example comes to the Personal Trainer and says my shoulder hurts and the trainer gives you something, how many of you actually ask the trainer what that substance is? Zaun then goes out has his shoulder feel better and starts hitting better then he starts recomending that trainer to other players

[bcw]

I love seeing Clemons on the list. Shame on him.

[imontoya]

3 problems I have with this report

1. A lot of it is heresay which is why Mitchell suggested Selig doesnt hand down punishments. Yet Selig being the Dumb Shit he is has already said he will


I think Selig's an idiot for saying he will punish these guys. I can't see how suspensions can be upheld based on the evidence the report is based on. If anything, him fighting with the union about punishment will just drag out the story. He should have just agreed with Mitchell and did his best to let this die.

[Orange Nation]

Let me start saying that I am not a bit surprised the way Clemens name has shown up in Mitchell's report, as a matter fact there has been some talk about this for years. I am not a Barry Bonds fan, as a matter fact far from it, but now that we have all this info isn't Clemens records as tinted as Bonds is? and their place on the history of the game?

[BigPapi]

Clemens and Bonds will be the faces of this era and it's a damn shame as they were both HOF'ers before the use but now are just losers.

[Merk]

I expect a big defamation of character lawsuit coming


Like Callaway stated a lot of it is heresay


Also I dont understand how Selig is going to hand down punishments based on that. The Players Union is not going to let him just hand out punishments as he sees fit

[BigPapi]

Doubt it. It's been over a year since Game Of Shadows came out and nothing from Bonds. I expect the same from the players listed.

[jlpubarch]

I expect a big defamation of character lawsuit coming


Like Callaway stated a lot of it is heresay


Also I dont understand how Selig is going to hand down punishments based on that. The Players Union is not going to let him just hand out punishments as he sees fit

Sorry, dude...if you're Roger Clemens, or Mike Vick or Barry Bonds you don't go after the Federal Government...its not a good idea.

Besides, what good would a lawsuit do?

In the Court of Public Opinion all of these players are guilty...

Their road to Cooperstown has been officially ROAD BLOCKED.

You remember how many votes Mark McGwire got his first time on the ballot? Yeah, pretty much none.

What's the point of suspending Roger Clemens for a year? He's already got 100's of millions of dollars...

The REAL damage has already been dealt...these players will never be looked at in the same light, their chances of getting into the HOF are DEAD, and if they choose to continue playing, they will only get booed, laughed at and criticized by the fans.

[BF_in_Indiana]

Is anyone really surprised that Clemens is on this list? I'm not. I've always told people he was juicing.

[unklechucky]

Can we place an asterick next to the string of Yankees WS during the 90's?
:guy:

[Scary Good]

Ok, can someone tell me exactly what's in there on Pettite?

[Carl J. Ironsides]

I wouldn't have even bothered with this, but when Red Sox fans take shots at the Yankees, there will be retribution from my end.

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/david-ortiz-ultra.jpghttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41524000/jpg/_41524302_baseball_416.jpg

[Orange Nation]

...and your proof is where? what's your source?

[Carl J. Ironsides]

...and your proof is where? what's your source?

From skinny to enormous. The same thing we indicted Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Jason Giambi and so many others for over the years.

[Orange Nation]

haha you wish. it's a dream and heresay. We're supposed to take you seriously when you have no source? You have no evidence. Period. Ever hear the phrase "innocent until proven guilty?" A far as I'm concerned, Pettitte and Clemens are guilty, their OWN trainer came out and said he supplied them with the 'roids and HGH. Thank You.

Don't know if any of you saw this:

From section 1-A of the report:

I have been a consultant to the owners of the Boston Red Sox since that club was acquired in 2002 by an ownership group led by John W. Henry. The club labels
that position “director.” I am not and have never been involved in any way in
baseball operations, and I have no vote on any decisions by the owners. I do not
now hold, nor have I in the past ever held, any ownership or other equity interest
in the Red Sox.

[Orange Nation]

He's always been a big guy. Unless they put steroids in his buffet, he's not on them. Ortiz is on the "John Kruk - David Wells" diet, Pizza and beer...'Roids don't help you in the clutch, and as you know he's as clutch as you can get.

Only a Yankee Fan.

[nyjunc]

This report is silly, they got a guys from certain teams to talk and not from others. You can't tell me only 80 or so players from the last 10-15 years used steroids. We all know that is isn't true. this report was really pointless as very few new names came out and no real evidence was found except from shady clubhouse guys being forced to testify.

[nyjunc]

He's always been a big guy. Unless they put steroids in his buffet, he's not on them. Ortiz is on the "John Kruk - David Wells" diet, Pizza and beer...'Roids don't help you in the clutch, and as you know he's as clutch as you can get.

Only a Yankee Fan.

Steroids helped Bonds hit in the clutch, it's obvious to any non-Sox fan that ortiz and Manny were/are users. We also know there are many more Yankees that used that did't come out in this report- his report was a complete joke.

[Callaway]

Doubt it. It's been over a year since Game Of Shadows came out and nothing from Bonds. I expect the same from the players listed.


Big difference, Game of Shadows led to/has a paper trail this report is based largly on what one guy says with no actually hard evidence

[Callaway]

Sorry, dude...if you're Roger Clemens, or Mike Vick or Barry Bonds you don't go after the Federal Government...its not a good idea.

Besides, what good would a lawsuit do?

In the Court of Public Opinion all of these players are guilty...

Their road to Cooperstown has been officially ROAD BLOCKED.

You remember how many votes Mark McGwire got his first time on the ballot? Yeah, pretty much none.

What's the point of suspending Roger Clemens for a year? He's already got 100's of millions of dollars...

The REAL damage has already been dealt...these players will never be looked at in the same light, their chances of getting into the HOF are DEAD, and if they choose to continue playing, they will only get booed, laughed at and criticized by the fans.


They would be going after MLB

[Callaway]

Some of the responses in this thread have already proved my point. People are just looking at the list and condemming the players w/out reading the report or looking at where the evidence is coming from

[Callaway]

haha you wish. it's a dream and heresay.


That is what the majority of the report is based on yet you fully believe that. Very Hypocritical. I'd bet anything that Ortiz took HGH or some type of Steroid during his career. The guy was a nobody and looked like a career minor leaguer and then all of a sudden his stats go through the roof and he gets bigger. Some of the same stuff that happened to Bonds yet Ortiz gets a pass because he is much more media friendly than Bonds



We're supposed to take you seriously when you have no source? You have no evidence. Period. Ever hear the phrase "innocent until proven guilty?" A far as I'm concerned, Pettitte and Clemens are guilty, their OWN trainer came out and said he supplied them with the 'roids and HGH. Thank You.

Again what evidence beside one guy saying they did? Do you know what the trainer told them? See part of the problem is to many people just assume they knew what the trainer was giving them he could have told them anything to get them to keep writing checks but no one ever seems to think about that

Don't know if any of you saw this:

From section 1-A of the report:


The simple fact that he had to say that says to me that a lot of people including many owners took issue with his affilation with the Red Sox and yes it is an issue despite what Red Sox fans might think


Theres no big name current Angels on the list and I still think the whole report was worthless and a waste of time

[Merk]

That is what the majority of the report is based on yet you fully believe that. Very Hypocritical. I'd bet anything that Ortiz took HGH or some type of Steroid during his career. The guy was a nobody and looked like a career minor leaguer and then all of a sudden his stats go through the roof and he gets bigger. Some of the same stuff that happened to Bonds yet Ortiz gets a pass because he is much more media friendly than Bonds





Again what evidence beside one guy saying they did? Do you know what the trainer told them? See part of the problem is to many people just assume they knew what the trainer was giving them he could have told them anything to get them to keep writing checks but no one ever seems to think about that




The simple fact that he had to say that says to me that a lot of people including many owners took issue with his affilation with the Red Sox and yes it is an issue despite what Red Sox fans might think


Theres no big name current Angels on the list and I still think the whole report was worthless and a waste of time


+1.

[BigPapi]

From skinny to enormous. The same thing we indicted Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Jason Giambi and so many others for over the years.

Well that makes A Rod and Griffey Jr guilty too.

[jaymitch84]

I don't think Griffey's size has changed all that much.

[jlpubarch]

Some of the responses in this thread have already proved my point. People are just looking at the list and condemming the players w/out reading the report or looking at where the evidence is coming from

The evidence comes from two individuals who were picked up by the feds and agreed to confess their steroid dealings...

They have receipts, signed checks and mail orders to back up the dates...

The man behind the report has spent his entire professional life being an arbitrator and compromiser.

You bet your ass I condemn these players...nearly every one was rumored to be a juicer, and now there is credible evidence to back up the claims...

No one is charging them with anything...and the League can not be held legally responsible for a report which it itself did not compile.

I read almost the entire report...and I especially paid attention to read the parts containing big name players. Many people (mostly the players and their sympathizers) will call it circumstantial...but that shit doesn't matter...this information is not being presented to a legal court of law...

ITS BEING PRESENTED TO THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION...and as a juror of that court, I say these guys are scum and will never make it into Cooperstown.

[jlpubarch]

Theres no big name current Angels on the list and I still think the whole report was worthless and a waste of time

So you would rather the game continue to operate under a shroud of secrecy...with players', team reps and the union all pretending this doesn't go on behind closed doors?

Or are you just pissed that one or more of your favorite players are now the laughing stock of the sports world?

I don't like the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Jays...so I don't care if their players are named...

But...I do think that some players (at all levels of success, from MVP's to roleplayers) had to be made example of to get the ball rolling in the right direction...

Will Clemens ever be legally convicted of using steroids?

No...but it doesn't matter...his years of hard work (or apparent hard work) have been forever tainted, just like Barry.

[voicekiller]

who cares

[BigPapi]

I don't think Griffey's size has changed all that much.

http://bkmcards.net/images/p90801061.jpg

[Carl J. Ironsides]

He's always been a big guy. Unless they put steroids in his buffet, he's not on them. Ortiz is on the "John Kruk - David Wells" diet, Pizza and beer...

I thought Mo Vaughn was, too.

[BF_in_Indiana]

Whether you think these guys spilling the beans are shady or not is besides the point. When they provide stuff like check stubs, etc it becomes pretty clear that they are telling the truth or at least as best they can.

Hell I don't think people should be knocking Bonds at this point. If pitchers like Clemens were cheating then why shouldn't he?

Doesn't make it right but hey that's just how it is.

[Orange Nation]

Canseco on Mitchell report: Where's A-Rod?
FOXSports.com

Jose Canseco couldn't get into the Mitchell Report press conference, but he was making the rounds on TV afterward. And his biggest point of contention? "All I can say is the Mitchell Report is incomplete ... I could not believe that (A-Rod's) name was not in the report."