Make your case for who should play for the title

[CoachC.]

What two teams should play?

Why?

[BLeonard]

Assuming Oklahoma holds on and beats Mizzou, I have to go with Ohio State and Kansas... Those are the only teams with one loss and, above all strength of schedule arguments, conference arguments, etc, the most important stat, especially in college football, is how many marks you have in that loss column (or more accurately, the lack of losses in that column). I still think Hawaii deserves an opportunity, since, as of this writing, they have not lost a game, but I also understand why they won't get one.

Gee, you know, a playoff would solve this situation... :)

-Bill

[Orange Nation]

Ohio State and Georgia will proabbaly be in it, although I don't agree with Georgia because they didn't even win their own DIVISION, let alone their conference.

USC and Oklahoma would be the best game though, these 2 teams are playing the best football in the nation.

[CoachC.]

If I was voting, I coiuldn't put Kansas in because I would look at last week's game vs. Mizzou as a "semifinal" game for them -- and they lost.

[TheAnswer74]

LSU vs Virgina Tech

[BeastMode Deep]

Call me crazy, but the way this season has gone, Id put Hawaii in there.

[CoachC.]

For me it would be Ohio State and VaTech.

Why is no one else talking about Va Tech?

Kansas lost their "semifinal" last week.
Georgia didn't even play for their conference title.
LSU just lost two weeks ago to an unranked team. Their 2nd loss.
Hawaii just doesn't have the schedule to make the case.
Oklahoma has two losses against teams that were very inferior.
USC has two losses. But more importantly, one was to Stanford. At home.

Va Tech was ranked ahead of both LSU and USC going into today. They beat the #11 ranked team to win their conference title. They avenged one of their two losses by doing so, which makes it equal to having only one loss to me, just like Ohio State.

I know they got hammered by LSU, but that was very early in the season and the LSU reasoning above lowers them in my voting.

So, it's close for me between LSU and VT. But I'll go with VT vs. OSU.

[JEvans14]

THE OSU vs. Hawaii. If Hawaii knocks off Washington tonight they'll be undefeated and the way the season has gone, why not?!

[BLeonard]

For me it would be Ohio State and VaTech.

Why is no one else talking about Va Tech?

Kansas lost their "semifinal" last week.
Georgia didn't even play for their conference title.
LSU just lost two weeks ago to an unranked team. Their 2nd loss.
Hawaii just doesn't have the schedule to make the case.
Oklahoma has two losses against teams that were very inferior.
USC has two losses. But more importantly, one was to Stanford. At home.

Va Tech was ranked ahead of both LSU and USC going into today. They beat the #11 ranked team to win their conference title. They avenged one of their two losses by doing so, which makes it equal to having only one loss to me, just like Ohio State.

I know they got hammered by LSU, but that was very early in the season and the LSU reasoning above lowers them in my voting.

So, it's close for me between LSU and VT. But I'll go with VT vs. OSU.

I can't put VA Tech in over LSU... Head to head should be the #1 tiebreaker, when applicable, IMO.

One thing we can all agree on, arguments can be made for a LOT of teams... A lot of teams are not going to be happy. But, the way I understand the system, it's designed to reward the teams who lose the least, for the most part. I can't justify putting a 2 loss team in there, especially when one was a BAD loss, over an undefeated team and a team that only lost once, just at the wrong time of the year. That's just me, though.

-Bill

[CoachC.]

THE OSU vs. Hawaii. If Hawaii knocks off Washington tonight they'll be undefeated and the way the season has gone, why not?!

I actually would have no problem if they put Hawaii in (if they beat WAS).

I wouldn't do it myself. But they F'd the system up so bad that Hawaii has just as much - if not more - of a deserving case as anyone else.

[JerseyBillsFan]

Hawaii down 14-0 to Washington at last check. The best any team can do right now is to just not play. This has been a crazy year in CFB.

[emo]

lsu will jump and should jump va tech

osu lsu

[dilbert]

I agree with CoachC. - OSU and V. Tech.

Of course, this proves they need a playoff, but that is besides the point.

Just think if Tennessee had beat LSU today.

[Orange Nation]

lsu will jump and should jump va tech

osu lsu

That would take some balls to move LSU up 5 spots, though... especially over two idle teams.

Although I do believe that you should have to win your Conference to play in the National Championship game.

[BF_in_Indiana]

Um my vote would be for no one........no one has shown themselves worthy of a championship in my opinion.

And I must say........I can't wait for another appearence by a pathetic Ohio State team in the championship......should be good for more laughs if I don't fall asleep in the first quarter.

[stevesy]

lsu will jump and should jump va tech

osu lsu

But the point is, why should they jump them now and why were they not ahead of VT last week? If they were behind VT in the computer rankings and the polls last week, why does a LSU win against a #14 team get them ahead of the Hokies after a VT win against the #12 team? Was there no reason why VT was ranked ahead of LSU last week? Are the polls just for show? And do I really even need to ask that question?

I'm a VT student and I think logically, LSU should go to the title over them, but theres something to say about losing 2 games to LSU and BC rather than losing 2 games to unranked teams (except Arkansas in the coaches).

I understand VT lost big time to LSU in September. But that was September. VT is leagues ahead of where they were offensively at that point in the season, and the inept offense turned out to really be the huge weakness against LSU (not moving the ball = no rest for the D = big points against). Games in the beginning of the season have almost no bearing on what can happen later. Hell, look at Tennessee-Cal... Tennessee goes on the play for the SEC title while Cal loses to Stanford?

What do I think it should be? I have no idea. You can make the case for so many 2 loss teams, though the talking heads only want LSU or USC. Except Mark May, a talking head with some sense, thinks Oklahoma should also get consideration. No love for VT though. This is just a shitty situation and I can only hope VT somehow slips in there, but more than likely it'll be the Orange Bowl.

This is a good site. They project VT will be #1 in the computer rankings, but LSU beats them in the polls and gets the NC bid. http://tellshowbcs.com/

[Orange Nation]

But the point is, why should they jump them now and why were they not ahead of VT last week? If they were behind VT in the computer rankings and the polls last week, why does a LSU win against a #14 team get them ahead of the Hokies after a VT win against the #12 team? Was there no reason why VT was ranked ahead of LSU last week? Are the polls just for show? And do I really even need to ask that question?

I'm a VT student and I think logically, LSU should go to the title over them, but theres something to say about losing 2 games to LSU and BC rather than losing 2 games to unranked teams (except Arkansas in the coaches).

I understand VT lost big time to LSU in September. But that was September. VT is leagues ahead of where they were offensively at that point in the season, and the inept offense turned out to really be the huge weakness against LSU (not moving the ball = no rest for the D = big points against). Games in the beginning of the season have almost no bearing on what can happen later. Hell, look at Tennessee-Cal... Tennessee goes on the play for the SEC title while Cal loses to Stanford?

What do I think it should be? I have no idea. You can make the case for so many 2 loss teams, though the talking heads only want LSU or USC. Except Mark May, a talking head with some sense, thinks Oklahoma should also get consideration. No love for VT though. This is just a shitty situation and I can only hope VT somehow slips in there, but more than likely it'll be the Orange Bowl.

This is a good site. They project VT will be #1 in the computer rankings, but LSU beats them in the polls and gets the NC bid. http://tellshowbcs.com/

Their offense has improved? Their offense is dreadful. They're middle of the pack offensively in the ACC which puts them somewhere in the lower 6th of the country. I'd guess they're probably the 20th or so worst offense in the Nation based on Yards Per Game. 30th, at best. I just don't see how you can put a team in the National Championship over a team that beat them by 41 when all other things appear equal. And "appear equal" is about it... if I'm ranking the conferences first to worst, the SEC is first by a longshot with three or four others separating them from the ACC. Therefore, winning the SEC is more impressive.

The problem with the BCS is that there is no margin of victory anymore. It doesn't take into account that LSU beat VT by 41... it doesn't take into account that LSU lost both games in Triple OT.

By the way, trash Arkansas and Kentucky all you want but they'd be more than capable of winning the ACC.

[TRIPLE P]

Ohio State and someone from the SEC. We have a blowout to avenge...

I can see the case for LSU.. but they were anything but impressive yesterday.

I'd probably give the nod to Georgia... there is no rule that says you need to win your conference to play for the title.... if there was how could Notre Dame ever play for a national title....

[CoachC.]

Ohio State and someone from the SEC. We have a blowout to avenge...

I bet some OSU fans are terrified of the fact that they could go to 3 national championships in a row and lose them all (FB, BB, FB).

I'd probably give the nod to Georgia... there is no rule that says you need to win your conference to play for the title.... if there was how could Notre Dame ever play for a national title....

Nebraska played for the title in 2001 despit not even making the Big XII title game.

Oklahoma played for the title in 2003 despite being blown out in the Big XII title game.

There is definitely precedent.

[TRIPLE P]

I bet some OSU fans are terrified of the fact that they could go to 3 national championships in a row and lose them all (FB, BB, FB)..

Not this one. Last year we definately didn't play our best game. On top of facing a great Florida team there were a TON of distractions. I'm just looking forward to the lay off so we can get healthy... Boekcman was injured the final 2 games, Beanie had a high ankle and a broken hand for the last few weeks (and still did what he did the last 5 games)

But whats to be scared of? We're going to be better next year anyway... this was a "rebuilding year" haha

.Nebraska played for the title in 2001 despit not even making the Big XII title game.

Oklahoma played for the title in 2003 despite being blown out in the Big XII title game.

There is definitely precedent.

Exactly.

[jaymitch84]

In this particular season, leaving undefeated Hawaii out of the title game seems ridiculous.

And the way this season has gone, there is NO reason to believe that they wouldn't win.

But don't worry, the BCS will end up with 2 marketable/big-name schools in the game, and they'll survive the "playoff" talk for another year. God I hate the BCS.

[BF_in_Indiana]

There isn't one team deserving of a National Title this year. I don't care who wins. They will be in the bottom 5 of all time champions.

[BF_in_Indiana]

Not this one. Last year we definately didn't play our best game. On top of facing a great Florida team there were a TON of distractions. I'm just looking forward to the lay off so we can get healthy... Boekcman was injured the final 2 games, Beanie had a high ankle and a broken hand for the last few weeks (and still did what he did the last 5 games)

But whats to be scared of? We're going to be better next year anyway... this was a "rebuilding year" haha

.

Exactly.

Would you stop making excuses for why you lost last year. Every time you acknowledge the loss there is always "but this happened before the game" or "if he hadn't gained 20 pounds". Well that's THEIR fault. They went out and got routed. So stop making excuses. You got rolled. Live with it. You will get rolled again this year. You don't even belong but since everyone is going to be subjected to watching your boring team I guess watching you get hammered is as good of an ending as I could hope for.

[stevesy]

Their offense has improved? Their offense is dreadful. They're middle of the pack offensively in the ACC which puts them somewhere in the lower 6th of the country. I'd guess they're probably the 20th or so worst offense in the Nation based on Yards Per Game. 30th, at best. I just don't see how you can put a team in the National Championship over a team that beat them by 41 when all other things appear equal. And "appear equal" is about it... if I'm ranking the conferences first to worst, the SEC is first by a longshot with three or four others separating them from the ACC. Therefore, winning the SEC is more impressive.

The problem with the BCS is that there is no margin of victory anymore. It doesn't take into account that LSU beat VT by 41... it doesn't take into account that LSU lost both games in Triple OT.

By the way, trash Arkansas and Kentucky all you want but they'd be more than capable of winning the ACC.

If you don't think VT's offense has improved over the course of the season you never extensively watched VT play. Which is okay because not everyone can watch every team. Just know that we went from anemic in the first half of the season to, at the very least, productive towards the end. I never said VT's offense was prolific, just that it has improved vastly over the course of the season. The offensive line has gelled, the new two QB system is working well enough, and Brandon Ore has been much better and is finally healthy. I think if we played LSU again it would be something like 32-21. Not 48-7 again. We'd actually be able to move the ball on them, because their defense has went from stellar, to... well... less than stellar. Make no mistake, teams don't lose in triple OT because they can't hit a 2 point conversion, they lose twice in triple OT because their defense can't do anything to stop the other offense in the red zone. It's that simple. Where has the tiger defense gone? Fortunately, I really think they won't need it against the Buckeyes. Unless they get in triple OT. ;)

And as I said, logically you put LSU into the title game, and they've done that. I just made the case for VT disregarding the fact that we lost to them in the beginning of the season. It's a tough case to make and that's why they were given absolutely no chance by any of the talking heads, but I think I made my case pretty well.

As for Kentucky and Arkansas being capable of winning the ACC. Maybe. I'm not going to argue that the ACC is as good as the SEC, but I do think VT is better than Arkansas and Kentucky and would beat them both on a neutral field.

[Orange Nation]

If you don't think VT's offense has improved over the course of the season you never extensively watched VT play. Which is okay because not everyone can watch every team. Just know that we went from anemic in the first half of the season to, at the very least, productive towards the end. I never said VT's offense was prolific, just that it has improved vastly over the course of the season. The offensive line has gelled, the new two QB system is working well enough, and Brandon Ore has been much better and is finally healthy. I think if we played LSU again it would be something like 32-21. Not 48-7 again. We'd actually be able to move the ball on them, because their defense has went from stellar, to... well... less than stellar. Make no mistake, teams don't lose in triple OT because they can't hit a 2 point conversion, they lose twice in triple OT because their defense can't do anything to stop the other offense in the red zone. It's that simple. Where has the tiger defense gone? Fortunately, I really think they won't need it against the Buckeyes. Unless they get in triple OT. ;)

And as I said, logically you put LSU into the title game, and they've done that. I just made the case for VT disregarding the fact that we lost to them in the beginning of the season. It's a tough case to make and that's why they were given absolutely no chance by any of the talking heads, but I think I made my case pretty well.

As for Kentucky and Arkansas being capable of winning the ACC. Maybe. I'm not going to argue that the ACC is as good as the SEC, but I do think VT is better than Arkansas and Kentucky and would beat them both on a neutral field.

6th best passing defense in the league is what LSU boasts. As well as the 14th or so best run defense.

LSU's defense has gotten worse because they went from their non-conference schedule, in which they played against considerably weaker teams -- VT included. Where a team with two heisman caliber RB's can be relegated to mediocre within that conference.

They play again... LSU wins by at least two touchdowns.

You've made a good case but nothing you said is enough to overcome the fact that LSU beat them by 41.

The injury to Dorsey hurt the most i think. He's been playing hurt since a chop block (in which game I can't remember, but it was about mid-season). He's a top-5 pick. When you lose that in the middle of your line, the rest of the D will suffer some.

[Merk]

I'm not really sure who should be there but I'm thinking its going to be LSU vs OSU



On a side note anyone else hearing the Rose Bowl might go outside the Big 10 this year for someone to play USC? I dont think it will happen but its interesting that they are even considering it

[emo]

I'm not really sure who should be there but I'm thinking its going to be LSU vs OSU



On a side note anyone else hearing the Rose Bowl might go outside the Big 10 this year for someone to play USC? I dont think it will happen but its interesting that they are even considering it

I bet they do, georgia v, usc great game

[Patrick!]

Why would V-Tech play over a TEAM THAT BEAT THEM BY FORTY-****ING-ONE??

That makes absolutely no sense.

and while we're at it, why would Gill go from being a hot up and coming HC to an OC at a dying program?

[CoachC.]

Why would V-Tech play over a TEAM THAT BEAT THEM BY FORTY-****ING-ONE??

That makes absolutely no sense.

I didn't know that was a rule. Better tell every NFL team that lost to the Pats they aren't allowed to play for the Super Bowl now.

But to answer your question....I don't know dude. That's the point. There are plenty of teams that have a case - and they all have holes.

Why would a team play that didn't play in their OWN FREAKING CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME?

Why would a team play that LOST TO AN UNRANKED TEAM (at the tme) JUST TWO WEEKS AGO?

Why would a team play that LOST TO STANFORD - ONE OF THE WORST TEAMS IN A BCS CONFERENCE - AT HOME?!

If I type all in caps does that make me look cool, too?

and while we're at it, why would Gill go from being a hot up and coming HC to an OC at a dying program?

No one ever said he would.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

No national title game for Va. Tech. Patrick is right; the Hokies lost by 41 to LSU, so they had no business jumping over the Tigers. It looks as if we're going to see OSU-LSU. No big surprise.

[stepsukie]

UGA should've gone

[Patrick!]

I didn't know that was a rule. Better tell every NFL team that lost to the Pats they aren't allowed to play for the Super Bowl now.

But to answer your question....I don't know dude. That's the point. There are plenty of teams that have a case - and they all have holes.

Why would a team play that didn't play in their OWN FREAKING CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME?

Why would a team play that LOST TO AN UNRANKED TEAM (at the tme) JUST TWO WEEKS AGO?

Why would a team play that LOST TO STANFORD - ONE OF THE WORST TEAMS IN A BCS CONFERENCE - AT HOME?!

If I type all in caps does that make me look cool, too?



No one ever said he would.

Jeez, don't overreact and yell at me like I'm a high school girl talking to a lamppost or something.

OSU-LSU, and decidedly not Virginia Tech. Way to be right, Coach!

[CoachC.]

No national title game for Va. Tech. Patrick is right; the Hokies lost by 41 to LSU, so they had no business jumping over the Tigers. It looks as if we're going to see OSU-LSU. No big surprise.

They wouldn't have jumped them.

Coming into the week it was VT #6, LSU #7.

LSU jumped VT, Kansas, and Georgia.


And for the record, I have no problem with LSU playing. They are certainly as worthy as any other team and will probably play better than VT would have. But I felt - on paper - VT had a slightly beter case. That's all.

[CoachC.]

Jeez, don't overreact and yell at me like I'm a high school girl talking to a lamppost or something.

Then don't act like one.

Way to be right, Coach!

Example #2.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

They wouldn't have jumped them.

Coming into the week it was VT #6, LSU #7.

My error. Still, I wouldn't have been happy, nor would many of others, had Va. Tech gone to the BCS title over a team it lost to by 41.

[CoachC.]

My error. Still, I wouldn't have been happy, nor would many of others, had Va. Tech gone to the BCS title over a team it lost to by 41.

I understand that.

But you guys act like I said VT was clearly a better choice and LSU had no claim.

Not the case.

I think LSU had a very good case and have no issue with them.


BTW - why did you not make a case for anyone yourself, then come into the thread afterward and say "haha?"

[Carl J. Ironsides]

BTW - why did you not make a case for anyone yourself, then come into the thread afterward and say "haha?"

When did I say "haha"? For the record, I wanted OSU to face either LSU, Oklahoma, Georgia or USC. I couldn't make a case for any one of those teams above the other, really, so I didn't bother trying.

[jaymitch84]

It's tough to make a case when it seems like no teams have a case.

[Orange Nation]

By the way... what do you guys think about 3-loss Illinois sneaking in? Ron Zook getting in over Florida only because the SEC already has two teams BCS bowling. Pleasant suprise... I think USC showed ASU to be frauds.

[stevesy]

Question.

If it's okay for LSU to jump 3 spots and end up in the title game because they beat VT in September (and make NO mistake about it, that win against VT is the very reason LSU is in the title game), why should Mizzou be left out of the BCS when they beat Kansas the week prior? This stuff really just blows my mind.

Do they think that by honoring the flawed BCS system and letting Kansas in somehow cancels out the sheer defiance that let LSU in? I mean if you're going to go against the system you might as well be consistent. Don't get me wrong, I think they got the title game right, I just think Mizzou should have been in there for the same exact reasons.

6th best passing defense in the league is what LSU boasts. As well as the 14th or so best run defense.

LSU's defense has gotten worse because they went from their non-conference schedule, in which they played against considerably weaker teams -- VT included. Where a team with two heisman caliber RB's can be relegated to mediocre within that conference.


We all know about rankings. They're averages over the entire season, I'm talking late season here for LSU. You can't sit here and tell me their defense hasn't been significantly more porous towards the end of the season. When you shut out Miss St. and hold VT to 7, and then towards the end of the season you let the disaster that is Ol' Miss drop 24 on you (with a couple of big runs and passes close to the red zone if I remember correctly), things have changed with that team and not for the better. An injured Dorsey may be the issue here, but then what if VT had played LSU when Dorsey was hurt, and VT's offense had hit a groove, and not in a night game in Death Valley in the beginning of September with all eyes on Virginia Tech's response to the tragedy?

If you want any proof of how much VT's offense has improved look no further than the opening game against ECU in comparison to their last 4 outings. They struggled to drop 17 on ECU with 278 total yards, and that was WITH an INT return for a TD. Hell, the first team even struggled to get in the end zone against Ohio and William & Mary. Then they hit their stride and drop just under 37 points a game with close to 400 total yards per game against significantly better, stronger, faster, and more talented defenses in FSU, Miami, UVA, and Boston College. That's why I just don't trust VT's offensive rankings, because they were so sorry in the beginning of the season, with all of the distractions off the field, poor offensive line and QB play, and shoddy defensive play. Any way you slice it VT has got better. Now they just have to prove it against Kansas.

[dmbfn40]

Hawaii should be playing for the National Title. They are the only team that has gone undefeated. I hate when people say "but they havent played anybody." Part of the reason Hawaii plays a "softer" schedule is because a lot of the big team are scared to play them. None of the so called top teams, want to play in Hawaii, which is a scary place to play and none of them want Hawaii to come to their home because they are afraid of getting embarrassed on their home turf.

I would love to see LSU - Hawaii National title game.

[TRIPLE P]

Hawaii should be playing for the National Title. They are the only team that has gone undefeated. I hate when people say "but they havent played anybody." Part of the reason Hawaii plays a "softer" schedule is because a lot of the big team are scared to play them. None of the so called top teams, want to play in Hawaii, which is a scary place to play and none of them want Hawaii to come to their home because they are afraid of getting embarrassed on their home turf.

I would love to see LSU - Hawaii National title game.

You're right....teams don't want to play Hawaii... and if thats your arguement, fine.

But then you lose me when you say it should be LSU-Hawaii... why should 2 loss LSu get in before 1 loss Ohio State, 1 Loss Kansas, or 1 Loss Missouri...keeping in mind that Ohio State is the only one of those teams to win thier Conference....

You kind of contradict yourself when you lobby for Hawaii regardless of schedule, but then stick a 2 loss LSU team in there.

[dmbfn40]

You're right....teams don't want to play Hawaii... and if thats your arguement, fine.

But then you lose me when you say it should be LSU-Hawaii... why should 2 loss LSu get in before 1 loss Ohio State, 1 Loss Kansas, or 1 Loss Missouri...keeping in mind that Ohio State is the only one of those teams to win thier Conference....

You kind of contradict yourself when you lobby for Hawaii regardless of schedule, but then stick a 2 loss LSU team in there.

I know it is kind of backwards thinking, but I give creedance to the fact that LSU didn't lose a game in regulation, both loses came on failed 2 pt conversions in the 3rd overtime. I know a lose is a lose. But I just think LSU is the much better team. Personally I think the National Championship is going to be a massacre. I hope I am wrong and will be the first to admit it if I am. I watched both LSU and Ohio St, Hawaii too for that matter, a lot this year and I think LSU will dominate every phase of the game.

For the record I think on a neutral site I think Hawaii would beat Ohio St and could give LSU a run, but probably wouldn't beat them. Hawaii and Ohio St would destroy both Kansas and Missouri.