What it means to be an American

[shiva2999]

I have been told today that I can't understand what it means to be an American because I am not an American.

Of course, being inherently arrogant (even though I am a citizen of a middle level world power), I am having a hard time understanding why this is so.

So please, clue in a foreigner.

What am I missing?

[Green Lantern]

You miss the ability to intuit.

[JLB]

I have been told today that I can't understand what it means to be an American because I am not an American.

Of course, being inherently arrogant (even though I am a citizen of a middle level world power), I am having a hard time understanding why this is so.

So please, clue in a foreigner.

What am I missing?

When you think of the greatest nation in history what comes to mind?

[Green Lantern]

What runs through your mind when people talk about Korvettes? Well...that might be an east coast American thing.

[anEinherjer]

:rofl: nice one john.

Shiv, it's nothing complex and you know it. You don't know what it's like to grow up as a part of our culture in exactly the same way I have no idea what it's like to grow up a Canadian. Or a poor Bangladeshi kid. Or a lump of moss.

[micknaboz]

You miss the ability to intuit.

in·tu·it
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object)
to know or receive by intuition.


You wanna try again on that aqua?

[Green Lantern]

in·tu·it
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object)
to know or receive by intuition.


You wanna try again on that aqua?

Nope. I stick with the answer. Sorry you miss it.

[shiva2999]

:rofl: nice one john.

Shiv, it's nothing complex and you know it. You don't know what it's like to grow up as a part of our culture in exactly the same way I have no idea what it's like to grow up a Canadian. Or a poor Bangladeshi kid. Or a lump of moss.

Really?

Just because you're a dumbass does that mean I have to be one too?

[JLB]

Really?

Just because you're a dumbass does that mean I have to be one too?

please the language very non American. :D

[shiva2999]

You miss the ability to intuit.

I have no appreciation of truthiness?

[JLB]

I have no appreciation of truthiness?

your ancestors could be from Cleveland. :dunno:

[shiva2999]

What runs through your mind when people talk about Korvettes? Well...that might be an east coast American thing.

The Korvettes is something you think of when you consider what it means to be an American?

Does that hold true for all 300,000,000+ of you?

[pcnorth22]

as someone who works with Canadians and Americans on a daily basis...I'd say there certainly are differences...but in WNY/Southern Ontario, they're pretty subtle...

you say zed...thats why you don't know what it means to be American...we proudly and loudly say zee...

[micknaboz]

Nope. I stick with the answer. Sorry you miss it.

So you're saying only a US citizen could have the intuition to know what its like to be an American? Thats a bit contrary to the meaning of the term.

intuition :

1. direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension.
2. a fact, truth, etc., perceived in this way.
3. a keen and quick insight.

[Green Lantern]

I have no appreciation of truthiness?

Truth? No.

I have a co-worker who grew up not watching TV. He is completely lost when the rest of us talk about growing up watching the Wonderful World of Disney on sunday nights in our pajamas while eating popcorn.

You are that kid when we discuss common, American, shared, experiences.

[Green Lantern]

So you're saying only a US citizen could have the intuition to know what its like to be an American? Thats a bit contrary to the meaning of the term.

intuition :

1. direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension.
2. a fact, truth, etc., perceived in this way.
3. a keen and quick insight.

Not only Americans. I am exempting cosmopolitan Canadians, however.

[Green Lantern]

The Korvettes is something you think of when you consider what it means to be an American?

Does that hold true for all 300,000,000+ of you?


Every Thanksgiving.

[micknaboz]

And I could never quite understand why it seems like only US citizens are called Americans.
Whats with that?

We have two continents, north and south america, aren't we all Americans?

[pmoon6]

Is this another American bashing thread?

[Green Lantern]

And I could never quite understand why it seems like only US citizens are called Americans.
Whats with that?

We have two continents, north and south america, aren't we all Americans?

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Try and get the Colombians to start using the name.

[shiva2999]

Truth? No.

I have a co-worker who grew up not watching TV. He is completely lost when the rest of us talk about growing up watching the Wonderful World of Disney on sunday nights in our pajamas while eating popcorn.

You are that kid when we discuss common, American, shared, experiences.

I grew up watching the Wonderful World of Disney and eating popcorn on Sunday night.

In my igloo no less.

Try another co-worker.

[micknaboz]

Is this another American bashing thread?

Don't tase me bro !!!!

:roseglasses:

[shiva2999]

Every Thanksgiving.

Seriously?

Please explain.

[shiva2999]

Is this another American bashing thread?

No.

Put the gun down.

[35Pete]

Jesus. This has turned into an interesting as hell exchange.

:popcorn:

[shiva2999]

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.


9 points.

[35Pete]

No.

Put the gun down.

His taser might have arrived in the mail already. Careful. Moonie's just the kind of guy to want to give a trial right out of the box.

[Green Lantern]

Seriously?

Please explain.

More proof.

Thanksgiving day is the beginning of Christmas shopping season. If you watched football, or whatever, while the Turkey was cooking, you were bombarded by E.A. Korvettes commmercials, et al. in preparation for Black Friday.

How was Bastille day up in Toronto?

[pmoon6]

His taser might have arrived in the mail already. Careful. Moonie's just the kind of guy to want to give a trial right out of the box.Just an aside from all the joking around.

I would never harm, in any way shape or form, any of you guys here.

I may jack with you on occasion or taunt you to see what you're made of, but that's about it.

I consider all of you my friends.

Except for Meathead.

He's a pussy.:D

[shiva2999]

More proof.

Thanksgiving day is the beginning of Christmas shopping season. If you watched football, or whatever, while the Turkey was cooking, you were bombarded by E.A. Korvettes commmercials, et al. in preparation for Black Friday.

How was Bastille day up in Toronto?

Now you're not only exhibiting your American chauvinism, but your NYC chauvinism as well.

It's E. J. Korvettes BTW, and they never had a store in Buffalo.

I guess our WNY friends don't know what it means to be an American either.

[Sparx]

I don't know what it means to be an American either. Besides someone who just happened to have passed through a vagina within U.S. borders.

[dilbert]

I don't know what it means to be an American either. Besides someone who just happened to have passed through a vagina within U.S. borders.


Someone who came out a vagina within US borders is an American. Just passing through one is not enough.

[Green Lantern]

I grew up watching the Wonderful World of Disney and eating popcorn on Sunday night.

In my igloo no less.

Try another co-worker.

You understand the concept then.

[Sparx]

Someone who came out a vagina within US borders is an American. Just passing through one is not enough.

Coitus interruptus?

[shiva2999]

Someone who came out a vagina within US borders is an American. Just passing through one is not enough.

C-sections are un-American?

[shiva2999]

You understand the concept then.

What?

That you and I have more shared experiences than you and your co-worker?

And yet you and he know what it means to be American and I don't?

[dilbert]

C-sections are un-American?

Anything but the missionary position and natural childbirth are Un-American and not natural.

Get it striaght, will you? Damn commie.

[dilbert]

I really don't think there is one definition of what it means to be American. Anybody who thinks there is, is either insane or much more observant than I am.

[Sparx]

Being an American is like chewing bubblegum while riding your bike with a baseball card in the spokes on a sunday afternoon.

[shiva2999]

Being an American is like chewing bubblegum while riding your bike with a baseball card in the spokes on a sunday afternoon.

Strangely enough, I did that too.

It was a Luis Aparicio card.

[JLB]

Strangely enough, I did that too.

It was a Luis Aparicio card.

You see there's the difference it's not strange you were being normal like us. :rockon:

[CoachC.]

I have been told today that I can't understand what it means to be an American because I am not an American.

Of course, being inherently arrogant (even though I am a citizen of a middle level world power), I am having a hard time understanding why this is so.

So please, clue in a foreigner.

What am I missing?

It's a good question. I'll take a shot and tell you something close to what it means to me.

My father was born in Italy and came here when he was young. He never finished high school, fought in Vietnam, and we were very poor most (if not all) of my youth.

So, I look at where I am today and what I've accomplished -- college graduate, own my own house and property, and do the only two things I ever really wanted to do with my life (work in sports media and coach) and I appreciate the fact that I live in a country that allowed me to do al of those things.

In many (if not most) countries in the world, someone who grew up with the circumstances I did would never even have the opportunities to accomplish even a sliver of those things.

"Being an American" enabled me to have those opportunities.

(of course this is what it means to an individual. Don't know if you wanted that or what it means to us as it pertains to the world stage).

[JLB]

I need more for this. :popcorn:

[Green Lantern]

I really don't think there is one definition of what it means to be American. Anybody who thinks there is, is either insane or much more observant than I am.

This began as a question of whether there is such a thing as American culture and whether Shiva can understand it, not being an American.

[JLB]

It's a good question. I'll take a shot and tell you something close to what it means to me.

My father was born in Italy and came here when he was young. He never finished high school, fought in Vietnam, and we were very poor most (if not all) of my youth.

So, I look at where I am today and what I've accomplished -- college graduate, own my own house and property, and do the only two things I ever really wanted to do with my life (work in sports media and coach) and I appreciate the fact that I live in a country that allowed me to do al of those things.

In many (if not most) countries in the world, someone who grew up with the circumstances I did would never even have the opportunities to accomplish even a sliver of those things.

"Being an American" enabled me to have those opportunities.

(of course this is what it means to an individual. Don't know if you wanted that or what it means to us as it pertains to the world stage).

Excellent Post

:popcorn:

[JLB]

This began as a question of whether there is such a thing as American culture and whether Shiva can understand it, not being an American.

Ask Shiva if he's French that could explain a lot. :dunno:

[Green Lantern]

I asked him how they celebrate Bastille Day. He did not respond.

[JLB]

I asked him how they celebrate Bastille Day. He did not respond.

your work here is done. :beers:

[GilPerreault]

You cannot understand what it truly means to be American just as I, who is less arrogant than you, will never claim to fully understand what it means to be Canadian; due to the fact neither of us has spent a day in our respective cultures. These cultures have us learn differnt things in our k-12, or in most likely your case, k-13 schools. Life is all about expereinces and we do not share the same. We share some, but with different backgrounds these experiences are then viewed and felt differently. For example, the U.S. is the worlds only remaining super power, do you know what responsibility that brings with it? The importance our votes mean? Also, how does it feel when you are a country that is not the center of the world? Where countries like Canada rely on the US military support and are able to spend more of their tax dollars on other programs? What is it like to have socialized medicine and have to wait months to get an appointment with a specialist? Do you know what it is like when countries like Canada incorporate American culture into their own and the US, besides border towns, can give a crap about Canada? These are some things you will never fully understand just as I will never understand what it means to be a Canadian. Differences are good, variety is the spice of life and no one can understand the life of others without walking in their shoes.

[shiva2999]

It's a good question. I'll take a shot and tell you something close to what it means to me.

My father was born in Italy and came here when he was young. He never finished high school, fought in Vietnam, and we were very poor most (if not all) of my youth.

So, I look at where I am today and what I've accomplished -- college graduate, own my own house and property, and do the only two things I ever really wanted to do with my life (work in sports media and coach) and I appreciate the fact that I live in a country that allowed me to do al of those things.

In many (if not most) countries in the world, someone who grew up with the circumstances I did would never even have the opportunities to accomplish even a sliver of those things.

"Being an American" enabled me to have those opportunities.

(of course this is what it means to an individual. Don't know if you wanted that or what it means to us as it pertains to the world stage).

My grandparents came to Canada from England and Finland and worked as gold-miners in Northern Ontario.

My father won a scholarship to university (academic, not athletic) and graduated as a professional engineer.

He retired after spending the last ten years of his working career as Vice president of Production for Goodyear Canada.

I went to college as well and earned my living in the film and television business, which was my dream.

Does that mean I know what it means to be an American too?

[Sparx]

My grandparents came to Canada from England and Finland and worked as gold-miners in Northern Ontario.

My father won a scholarship to university (academic, not athletic) and graduated as a professional engineer.

He retired after spending the last ten years of his working career as Vice president of Production for Goodyear Canada.

I went to college as well and earned my living in the film and television business, which was my dream.

Does that mean I know what it means to be an American too?

Proof that non-Americans can achieve their dreams! unheard of!

[Green Lantern]

Shiva, do you know what it is to love?

[shiva2999]

I asked him how they celebrate Bastille Day. He did not respond.

We celebrate Bastille Day the same way they do in Buffalo.

[shiva2999]

Shiva, do you know what it is to love?

Are we talking Eros, Phillia or Agape?

[shiva2999]

You cannot understand what it truly means to be American just as I, who is less arrogant than you, will never claim to fully understand what it means to be Canadian; due to the fact neither of us has spent a day in our respective cultures.

Speak for yourself.

[GilPerreault]

Speak for yourself.

If I'm American and spend a day in Canada, I may be in Canada, but as a visitor and not a host. Ditto you as a Canadian in America. We will always bring the subtle yet different cultures we grew up with wherever we go. We will always have our history that has colored our views as part of us and CONDITIONED us.

[JLB]

you are your environment.

[pmoon6]

you are your environment.Are we going to get into that "environment vs. genetics" thing again, Randolph?

I'll bet you a dollar.

[shiva2999]

If I'm American and spend a day in Canada, I may be in Canada, but as a visitor and not a host. Ditto you as a Canadian in America. We will always bring the subtle yet different cultures we grew up with wherever we go. We will always have our history that has colored our views as part of us and CONDITIONED us.

See, this is still American chauvinism.

Torontonians grow up immersed in American culture as well as Canadian culture.

It doesn't work the other way.

Sure there are regional differences, just like there are differences in the regions of America.

Some could say eating beef on weck defines what it means to be American but I don't think they'd agree in Louisiana or Los Angeles.

[Green Lantern]

Are we talking Eros, Phillia or Agape?

Either of the first two, or both, will do. I will assume your answer is yes.

You know them, but you do not know the particular brand of it associated with knowing the uniqueness that was my grandmother. I do not know the particular brand of love felt toward a child, as I do not have one.

Similarly, I argue, you do not know the particular culture of America; the pride of the Revolutionary War, that Americans wrote the Declaration of Independence, the burden of being the only country to vaporize human beings with an atom bomb, the horrors of our Civil War, the St. Louis arch, go West young man, the OK corral, Ellis Island; you can read them but you are not a part of them. Not a mile from where I grew up is a house: Here is where George Washington slept before the battle of White Plains. In White Plains is the court house where the colony of NY declared its independence. I used to stand there and wait for a bus and would read the plague that declared it.


You know the imagery and myth of the Mounties, or the independent nature of the Quebecois, like Americans do not, I argue. You have your history and interactions and quirks as a people and we have ours. I think you can appreciate it, you can know it, but I do not think you can fully understand it.

[pmoon6]

See, this is still American chauvinism.

Torontonians grow up immersed in American culture as well as Canadian culture.

It doesn't work the other way.

Sure there are regional differences, just like there are differences in the regions of America.

Some could say eating beef on weck defines what it means to be American but I don't think they'd agree in Louisiana or Los Angeles.Why did all those Southern Ontario ****heads pick fights with young American lads back in the day if they were so immersed in our culture.

They seemed to hate us.

I never understood that.

[shiva2999]

Why did all those Southern Ontario ****heads pick fights with young American lads back in the day if they were so immersed in our culture.

They seemed to hate us.

I never understood that.

Where did this take place?

Canada has it's rednecks too.

BTW, the only Americans I've ever picked fights with is you guys and I only do it because it's for your own good.

:D

[CoachC.]

My grandparents came to Canada from England and Finland and worked as gold-miners in Northern Ontario.

My father won a scholarship to university (academic, not athletic) and graduated as a professional engineer.

He retired after spending the last ten years of his working career as Vice president of Production for Goodyear Canada.

I went to college as well and earned my living in the film and television business, which was my dream.

Does that mean I know what it means to be an American too?

No, not simply from my response. I was simply stating what it meant to ME, which is what I thought you were after at first.

But to answer you question of if you can or can't understand, I'll ask you a couple of questions, too:

Shiva, do you know what it means to be a woman? Do you know what it means to be black?

Most people who live in the world don't know jack shit about what it means "to be" something else or to even live somewhere else. But some can draw on other realed experiences, like you being Canadien and the things you mentioned (helps you to understand "being an American"). I have no kids, and truly don't know "what it means to be" a parent.

But being a HS teacher and a footbal coach and a girls track coach has given me a lot of reference points for knowing "what it means to be" a parent.

The problem is, no one has the related experiences to know what it means to be everything else.

[shiva2999]

Shiva, do you know what it means to be a woman? Do you know what it means to be black?


Of course not, but then neither do you.

And yet apparently you and women and black people can understand what it means to be American and I can't.

[pmoon6]

Where did this take place?

Canada has it's rednecks too.

BTW, the only Americans I've ever picked fights with is you guys and I only do it because it's for your own good.

:DEarly '70's, on the Lake Erie shore. Port Colburne, Long Beach, Sherkston.

Actually Shiva, those were only 5 or 6 incidents and alcohol was involved, but it shaded my opinion.

I do have to say that just from interacting with Doug, Ticat, Spiked and yourself and the contact I have with your countrymen that live here now. I got over being coldcocked and sucker punched.

Yous guys are OK.

[shiva2999]

Early '70's, on the Lake Erie shore. Port Colburne, Long Beach, Sherkston.


Geez, you were lucky they didn't butt **** you while playing Deliverance.

[uppy]

American by Choice
We must all learn what it means to be an American.
by Peter W. Schramm
06/28/2007 12:00:00 AM



THIS WEEK, I am being honored by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services as an "Outstanding American by Choice." This strikes me as an interesting name for an award. It is meant, of course, to recognize selected citizens who were not born in America. But the idea of being an American by choice points to an important, and perhaps unintended truth: being American is not simply reducible to the happy accident of birth. Americans, both natural and naturalized, must be trained--they must be made--and much of my time these days is devoted to making Americans out of people who just happened to have been born here.

Over fifty years ago, when I was just shy of my tenth birthday, my family fled Hungary during the failed revolution against the Russian Communists. Our family's story was like so many of the refugees from communism, complete with relatives arrested, property seized, and a nighttime dash to freedom. The decision to escape was an easy one to make (although not so easy to execute), but the question I had--the one I distinctly recall asking my father--was "where are we going." We could have stayed in Europe--and indeed, the Germans would have welcomed us as Volk deutsche because of our German surname--but this was not my father's plan. "We are going to America," he said. "Why America?" I prodded. "Because, son. We were born Americans, but in the wrong place."

Born Americans, but in the wrong place? I've spent the better part of the last fifty years working to more fully understand these words. Mind you, everyone understood America to be a free and good place where one might prosper unmolested. But in saying that we were "born Americans, but in the wrong place," Dad, in his way, was saying that he understood America to be both a place and an idea at the same time. Fundamentally, it is a place that would embrace us if we could prove that we shared in the idea. We meant to prove it.

Because America is more than just a place, being an American citizen is different than being the citizen of any other country on earth. We Americans do not look to the ties of common blood and history for connection as people the way the citizens of other countries do. Rather, our common bond is a shared principle. This is what Lincoln meant when he referred to the "electric cord" in the Declaration of Independence that links all of us together, as though we were "blood of the blood, and flesh of the flesh, of the men who wrote that Declaration."

Because ours is a bond of principle and not of blood, true American citizens are made and not born. This is why, odd as it may seem, we must all learn--those who are born here, and those who come here by choice--what it means to be an American. Regrettably, we are doing a poor job of passing this knowledge on to future generations. Looking to just one practical indicator, the most recent National Assessment of Educational Progress shows that 73 percent of twelfth-graders scored below the proficient level in civics, as did 78 percent of eighth-graders, and 76 percent of fourth-graders. To put this into perspective, 72 percent of eighth graders could not explain the historical purpose of the Declaration of Independence. This ignorance is tragic not merely because it indicates a deficiency in our educational system, but because with it comes a loss of our national identity. And so, I find it somewhat ironic and yet very fitting that fifty years after coming to this great country, I spend my days at an institution where my job is to teach college students and high school teachers what it means to be an American.

In recent weeks, there has been much talk about immigration, but very little informed discussion about what it means to be an American--about what is necessary to make Americans. Yes, there needs to be a sensible policy for accepting new citizens, and for ensuring that those who come here do so legally. But what happens once they are here? I hear frequent conversations about failures in integration and assimilation, even among recent legal immigrants. This is not new. What is new is that America's own natural citizens increasingly have forgotten what it means to be American. Some do not know the basics principles of this country, and still others have embraced the ideology of multiculturalism and self-loathing to such a degree that they can no longer recognize, let alone proclaim, that ours is a great nation built on lasting principles. If we no longer understand or believe in that which makes us Americans, then there is nothing substantive to assimilate into. We become many and diverse people who share a common place, rather than E Pluribus Unum.

We cannot forget who we are. We are Americans. This is a great nation. We Americans insist on holding to the connection between freedom and justice, courage and moderation. We think that equality and liberty have ethical and political implications, and, as we have shown time-and-again throughout our history, we are willing to fight and to die to make men free. We need to impart these principles to succeeding generations.

We Americans correctly demand respect for our rights but, in getting that respect, we must continue to demonstrate that we continue to deserve it. We have to exercise our intelligence and develop our civic understanding so that we may preserve our liberty and pass it on, undiminished to the next generation. If government "of the people, by the people and for the people" is to endure, its endurance can only come from the devotion of Americans--born here and away--who have been so made.
more.....




http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=13806&R=113E617524

[Canisius85]

I don't know if I can define it...but I can definately say it's not as good as when I was a kid in the '60s and '70s.

This used to be a benevolent country. We used to value education, ideas and freedom.

Somewhere along the line, ('round about the time of Reagan) all that changed.

We went from "Ask what you can do for your country"....to one whose motto is.... "**** you if you don't have yours, because I've got mine!"

Somewhere along the line, the American Dream went from providing a better life for your children than you had, to just trying to struggle by without foreclosure.

And in this day and age, education is not only unattainable, it's looked down upon, by the morons in charge.

They start wars based on lies, all while they themselves were too chicken to fight when it was there time.

What you're seeing is the decline of the American Empire.

It shouldn't surprise anyone. It happened to people better than us.

[GilPerreault]

This thread shows what it means to be a Canadian in US culture. An American wouldn't have started this thread. An American also wouldn't start this thread on a Canadian message board because, unfortunately, many Americans don't care what it means to be Canadian. Canadians try to be more like Americans and Americans try to be less like Canadians. Since you are Canadian you can't relate to or understand the second part of that statement, hence you will never understand what it means to be American.

[shiva2999]

Because America is more than just a place, being an American citizen is different than being the citizen of any other country on earth.

And that's why Americans are so special.

Disregard the actions and concentrate on the bullshit.

[pmoon6]

Geez, you were lucky they didn't butt **** you while playing Deliverance.They weren't able to. They were on the lying ground black, blue and bleeding.

I was intemperant in my youth and didn't take kindly to being struck for no other reason than I was a "Yank".

[shiva2999]

This thread shows what it means to be a Canadian in US culture. An American wouldn't have started this thread. An American also wouldn't start this thread on a Canadian message board because, unfortunately, many Americans don't care what it means to be Canadian. Canadians try to be more like Americans and Americans try to be less like Canadians. Since you are Canadian you can't relate to or understand the second part of that statement, hence you will never understand what it means to be American.

Okely dokely.

[shiva2999]

They weren't able to. They were on the lying ground black, blue and bleeding.

I was intemperant in my youth and didn't take kindly to being struck for no other reason than I was a "Yank".

I can't imagine why anyone would try and take a swing at you.

And just for being an American no less.

[micknaboz]

I don't know if I can define it...but I can definately say it's not as good as when I was a kid in the '60s and '70s.

This used to be a benevolent country. We used to value education, ideas and freedom.

Somewhere along the line, ('round about the time of Reagan) all that changed.

We went from "Ask what you can do for your country"....to one whose motto is.... "**** you if you don't have yours, because I've got mine!"

Somewhere along the line, the American Dream went from providing a better life for your children than you had, to just trying to struggle by without foreclosure.

And in this day and age, education is not only unattainable, it's looked down upon, by the morons in charge.

They start wars based on lies, all while they themselves were too chicken to fight when it was there time.

What you're seeing is the decline of the American Empire.

It shouldn't surprise anyone. It happened to people better than us.

Great post Canisius, and sadly all too true.
The acquisitiveness of much of our citizenry has become a cancer on our national psyche. That this so called greatest nation with its vast amounts of wealth and its so called christian principles could allow hundreds of thousands of homeless to populate its streets is a sign that this experiment in democracy may indeed be gasping for its last breath.

In the 1940's, corporate taxation made up 35% of the federal tax revenue. Now it's about 7%. In the 1950's, CEO income was about 40x that of the average worker. Today it's about 500x.

[coastal]

I give a rat's ass about being an American.

It's where I eat, sleep and breathe.

Like the generations of my family before me, if there is a better opportunity for me and my ilk elsewhere... that's where we'll be.

Elsewhere could mean Florida... it could mean Costa Rica... it could mean all the way back to Sweden.

America doesn't define me.

My family and their well being does.

[Green Lantern]

I cannot agree with that Coastal.

[coastal]

I cannot agree with that Coastal.

good for you.

[Green Lantern]

Just explaining cause I like you.

[uppy]

And that's why Americans are so special.

Disregard the actions and concentrate on the bullshit.

No,Americans concentrate on what is good

[uppy]

I give a rat's ass about being an American.

It's where I eat, sleep and breathe.



:nono:

[35Pete]

Just an aside from all the joking around.

I would never harm, in any way shape or form, any of you guys here.

I may jack with you on occasion or taunt you to see what you're made of, but that's about it.

I consider all of you my friends.

Except for Meathead.

He's a pussy.:D

And I was joking too. Sort of. :D

Why is it that once in a while I like to have a good fight with you? Hmm. Maybe you don't suck when you put your dog in the fight?

[Mouldsie]

being born between our borders

[coastal]

Just explaining cause I like you.

You need to watch Last of the Mohicans again.

You, like Ms. Munro, have the capacity to learn.

[Green Lantern]

You need to watch Last of the Mohicans again.

You, like Ms. Munro, have the capacity to learn.

Gotcha, Hawkeye.

[keyron79]

I give a rat's ass about being an American.

It's where I eat, sleep and breathe.

Like the generations of my family before me, if there is a better opportunity for me and my ilk elsewhere... that's where we'll be.

Elsewhere could mean Florida... it could mean Costa Rica... it could mean all the way back to Sweden.

America doesn't define me.

My family and their well being does.

Family for me come's first and for most.But can my dreams come true in Russia,China or N.Korea I think not.

[35Pete]

We celebrate Bastille Day the same way they do in Buffalo.

:rofl:

[coastal]

Family for me come's first and for most.But can my dreams come true in Russia,China or N.Korea I think not.

who said anything about dreams coming true?

[Gibby]

When you think of the greatest nation in history what comes to mind?

Well JLB lets see now in history the USA is one of a long line of great powers

In Chronological order they are

Egypt
Assyria
Persia (sixth through fifth centuries BC)
Classical Greek world culminating with Alexander's Empire
(Sparta was best military and Athens was strongest economy)
Rome
Muhammed's Empire
Mongol Empire (1200-1368)
Mughal Empire
Ottoman Empire (c. 1400-1600)
China (had some stinker dynasties but until the middle of the Qing dynasty c. 1750 AD/CE they were the strongest military, economic, and political power on earth)
Spain (until the armada was obliterated by the protestant wind in 1587 they were the largest empire on earth and the wealthiest as they controlled great chunks of north and south America, Europe, and Asia)
Victorian Britain and its empire
USA and Soviet Union
USA

So I would say USA is right now the most dominant but the greatest in history just in terms of longevity would be Egypt, China, and Rome.

Land Area
Mongol Empire
Alexandrian Empire
Russian Empire/Soviet Union
Persian Empire
British Empire
Spanish Empire
Muhammed's Empire
China
United States
Ottoman Empire
Roman Empire
French Empire

Economic
United States
Britain
Rome
Dynastic China
Ottoman Empire
Mongolian Empire

Military
Britain
Rome
Alexandrian Greek Empire
Ottoman Empire
Muslim Empire
Russia/Soviet Union
Persia
Germany
United States
Napoleonic France

Cultural
China
Greece
Rome
Britain
United States
France
Egypt

[Green Lantern]

You just seem to have too much fun here sometimes...

[Gibby]

You just seem to have too much fun here sometimes...

of course, why else would I keep posting?

[anEinherjer]

Really?

Just because you're a dumbass does that mean I have to be one too?

Man, so cold!

[gilchristfan]

I give a rat's ass about being an American.

It's where I eat, sleep and breathe.

Good lord, man, you've reduced a nation of 300 million people to a bedroom community.

Time to call in the Duke:



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[35Pete]

you are your environment.

If you let yourself be.

[Canisius85]

Time to call in the Duke:




Oye vey!

[slowpokemcgee]

And I could never quite understand why it seems like only US citizens are called Americans.
Whats with that?

We have two continents, north and south america, aren't we all Americans?

Simple. We're the United States of America. Canada isn't the Canadian Provinces of America and etc. Would you rather be called United Statesmen? I get where your coming from but we're the only country that actually has America in it's name.

[ticatfan3]

See, this is still American chauvinism.

Torontonians grow up immersed in American culture as well as Canadian culture.

It doesn't work the other way.

Sure there are regional differences, just like there are differences in the regions of America.

Some could say eating beef on weck defines what it means to be American but I don't think they'd agree in Louisiana or Los Angeles.They is nothing canadian about toronto anymore.

[TigerJ]

I think trying to arrive at a definition of what it means to be an American is tremendously difficult. There are endless varieties of attitudes and philosophies about our politics. differences in the way we see each other, differences in the way we regard the land and the environment, different stances on the military. There are Americans who are to the left of Shiva, if that's possible, and to the right of Uppy. Do we define what an American's political perspective must be? To be a true American, do we have to love our country, our government. Are we supposed to be blind to our imperfections, or can we aspire to be better than we are? Ultimately, I think the best I can do is attempt to define who I think I am with respect to the country in which I live.

[unklechucky]

Tearing up while listening to Lee Greenwood...God Bless the USA

[jimmifli]

I've spent about an equal amount of time on each side of the border during the last two years.

My day-to-day work has me rubbing elbows with a wide variety of people, from blue collar factory workers to the top offices of some pretty large companies. I meet all types, I work with them and socialize with them. I'm frequently invited for family dinners.

Here's my take:

Most people in both countries are good, honest and hardworking people. Most people in both countries think they're different than people from the other country.

I don't see ANY difference.

[TigerJ]

A true American would never say, "The post office is aboot 2 kilometers up the road." He would never fill his car with thirty liters of gas.

[FamousAmos]

Are we talking Eros, Phillia or Agape?

CS Lewis The Four Loves?

[35Pete]

A true American would never say, "The post office is aboot 2 kilometers up the road." He would never fill his car with thirty liters of gas.

With the exception of buying products or travel distance if you walk into my office you'll NEVER hear the english system.

It is an antiquated, crap system. The metric system is vastly superior to the Imperial English System. By far.

[shiva2999]

Let's review, shall we?

This thread was inspired by another that concerned how the public is manipulated.

I posted that although we are all manipulated by the powers that be, Americans are manipulated in a way that's unique to them, ie by flattery with regard to your status as the #1 superpower in the world.

I was told by aqua that although I had some decent insights, I would never really be able to understand America because as a Canadian, I didn't understand what it meant to be an American.

So that's why I asked this question.

The telling part is that none of you Americans, even though the phrase "what it means to be an American" makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, can actually explain WHAT THE HELL IT MEANS.

Thus proving my point that there are a whole bunch of cliches endemic to the US that are nonsensical at their core but are wonderfully useful when it comes to keeping you stupid and angry.

And why would the powers to be want to keep you stupid and angry?

Take a guess.

[35Pete]

Ticat. Don't be a wuss and groan me without telling me why.

[35Pete]

Let's review, shall we?

This thread was inspired by another that concerned how the public is manipulated.

I posted that although we are all manipulated by the powers that be, Americans are manipulated in a way that's unique to them, ie by flattery with regard to your status as the #1 superpower in the world.

I was told by aqua that although I had some decent insights, I would never really be able to understand America because as a Canadian, I didn't understand what it meant to be an American.

So that's why I asked this question.

The telling part is that none of you Americans, even though the phrase "what it means to be an American" makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, can actually explain WHAT THE HELL IT MEANS.

Thus proving my point that there are a whole bunch of cliches endemic to the US that are nonsensical at their core but are wonderfully useful when it comes to keeping you stupid and angry.

And why would the powers to be want to keep you stupid and angry?

Take a guess.

****ing brilliant. True, it was a rope-a-dope. But people walked right into it.

[gilchristfan]

Let's review, shall we?

This thread was inspired by another that concerned how the public is manipulated.

I posted that although we are all manipulated by the powers that be, Americans are manipulated in a way that's unique to them, ie by flattery with regard to your status as the #1 superpower in the world.

I was told by aqua that although I had some decent insights, I would never really be able to understand America because as a Canadian, I didn't understand what it meant to be an American.

So that's why I asked this question.

The telling part is that none of you Americans, even though the phrase "what it means to be an American" makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, can actually explain WHAT THE HELL IT MEANS.

Thus proving my point that there are a whole bunch of cliches endemic to the US that are nonsensical at their core but are wonderfully useful when it comes to keeping you stupid and angry.

And why would the powers to be want to keep you stupid and angry?

Take a guess.

LOL!

Ask a very general question that has a multitude of answers, depending the context and the perspective of answering party;

Review those answers, many of which were made tongue in cheek;

Draw your conclusions, obviously made before the question was asked;

and say "See...stupid and angry Americans..can't even answer a stupid question".


Seems more of a feeble attempt at a Jedi mind trick than the Socratic method, but whatever works.

[35Pete]

Hey buster. I've got exclusive rights on the phrase "Jedi Mind Trick".

Find your own cliche. LOL

[gilchristfan]

Hey buster. I've got exclusive rights on the phrase "Jedi Mind Trick".

Find your own cliche. LOL

Sorry, my youngest is still in his Anakin phase, I can't help it.

PS, ever seen this? Its old, but I'd never seen it until the other night.

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[Canisius85]

Now that was funny!

[shiva2999]

LOL!

Ask a very general question that has a multitude of answers, depending the context and the perspective of answering party;

Review those answers, many of which were made tongue in cheek;

Draw your conclusions, obviously made before the question was asked;

and say "See...stupid and angry Americans..can't even answer a stupid question".


Seems more of a feeble attempt at a Jedi mind trick than the Socratic method, but whatever works.

Say that I did not.

And if the question be stupid, the fault of the original assertion it may be.

You have the dark side in you too young Skywalker. Get it from your father's side you do.

[Green Lantern]

Say that I did not.

And if the question be stupid, the fault of the original assertion it may be.

You have the dark side in you too young Skywalker. Get it from your father's side you do.

You understand any other culture you investigate? And it is my job to prove you wrong?

This seems beneath you.

[Canisius85]

Are you doing background research for a new script or something Shiva?

[shiva2999]

You understand any other culture you investigate? And it is my job to prove you wrong?

This seems beneath you.

You invited yourself to prove me wrong.

You used a silly and ethnocentric argument to do it.

You consistently refuse to address my points while challenging my standing to do so.

Of course this is beneath me.

I shouldn't have to put up with this crap.

But sometimes you just have to put out the garbage.

And that includes moronic American cliches that serve as an excuse for actually having to think about things.

[Green Lantern]

You invited yourself to prove me wrong.

You used a silly and ethnocentric argument to do it.

You consistently refuse to address my points while challenging my standing to do so.

Of course this is beneath me.

I shouldn't have to put up with this crap.

But sometimes you just have to put out the garbage.

And that includes moronic American cliches that serve as an excuse for actually having to think about things.

OK.

Let us return to the debate in the other thread then.

[gilchristfan]

Say that I did not.

And if the question be stupid, the fault of the original assertion it may be.



the question was fine jedi, the predetermined conclusions, on the other hand...


You have the dark side in you too young Skywalker. Get it from your father's side you do.


That I do. The dark side resides in all of us. It just manifests itself in different ways for different people.

[TigerJ]

With the exception of buying products or travel distance if you walk into my office you'll NEVER hear the english system.

It is an antiquated, crap system. The metric system is vastly superior to the Imperial English System. By far.

Hey, I didn't say our system is better, just that it's ours and we use it. LOL I'm assuming you caught my attempt to catch the Canadien accent in my quote.

[35Pete]

Hey, I didn't say our system is better, just that it's ours and we use it. LOL I'm assuming you caught my attempt to catch the Canadien accent in my quote.

In my field the imperial system is absurd. None of the units are standardized to a specific numeric system like the metric system is (base-10). That makes calculations a nightmare.

Besides. What wattage bulb do you have in your bedroom? 60 watts? Or is it a .081577 horsepower lightbulb?

Trivia question (a canadian would get this): How much does a kilogram weigh? 5,000 chips to anyone that gets it right.

[shiva2999]

the question was fine jedi, the predetermined conclusions, on the other hand...

Was I wrong?

That I do. The dark side resides in all of us. It just manifests itself in different ways for different people.

Indeed. That was my point. How it manifests itself in you guys. It was my standing to state how that was questioned.

[TigerJ]

A kilogram is about 2.2 lbs. isn't it, Pete. A meter is 39.37 inches. I agree the metric system is much more sensible in many ways.

[Green Lantern]

In my field the imperial system is absurd. None of the units are standardized to a specific numeric system like the metric system is (base-10). That makes calculations a nightmare.

Besides. What wattage bulb do you have in your bedroom? 60 watts? Or is it a .081577 horsepower lightbulb?

Trivia question (a canadian would get this): How much does a kilogram weigh? 5,000 chips to anyone that gets it right.


I know that it is equal to one liter of water. But I just read that one of the famous 'official' kilograms, the one in France I believe, has officially lost weight somehow. It no longer weighs the same as the rest of the ones which were made and send to various parts of the the world. I cannot remember exactly what the cause was but I think it was one of the elements they made it out of has a short half-life or something. Anyway, there was a small furor made about it by those to whom this type of thing is important.

[gilchristfan]

Was I wrong?

Oh, sure.



Indeed. That was my point. How it manifests itself in you guys. It was my standing to state how that was questioned.


I thought your point was to find out what it means to be an American?

[TheGoodShepherd]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Michael_Jackson_Reagan.gif

[35Pete]

A kilogram is about 2.2 lbs. isn't it, Pete. A meter is 39.37 inches. I agree the metric system is much more sensible in many ways.

Well, yes. But's that's an imperial conversion. What's a kilogram's weight in metric?

[35Pete]

I know that it is equal to one liter of water. But I just read that one of the famous 'official' kilograms, the one in France I believe, has officially lost weight somehow. It no longer weighs the same as the rest of the ones which were made and send to various parts of the the world. I cannot remember exactly what the cause was but I think it was one of the elements they made it out of has a short half-life or something. Anyway, there was a small furor made about it by those to whom this type of thing is important.

Interesting. That IS possible. But not for those reasons. And therein lies another hint.

Jackpot up to 7,500 chips. Why don't you guys google what a kilogram is and what a pound is.

[Green Lantern]

Well, yes. But's that's an imperial conversion. What's a kilogram's weight in metric?

I thought I did answer you question. It is the mass of a liter of water, is it not?

[shiva2999]

Oh, sure.

How so?

I thought your point was to find out what it means to be an American?

Reward simpletons the force does not, young Skywalker.

[TigerJ]

I thought I did answer you question. It is the mass of a liter of water, is it not?I do believe you are right. A liter is also 1,000 cubic centimeters.

[35Pete]

You are both wrong. Now that I have to give a hint, I'm lowering the award back to 5K.

A kilogram is NOT a unit of weight.

[Green Lantern]

You are both wrong. Now that I have to give a hint, I'm lowering the award back to 5K.

A kilogram is NOT a unit of weight.

You're such a nimrod.

[markythebill]

As an objective witness, I think many American's don't know what it's like to be American and are as a result confused. They love their country, they don't want to live anywhere else (hell, they might not even know anything about anywhere else), but they can't put their finger on what they are in the grand scheme of things.

I'd say this stems from the fact that America is a fairly young country with a lack of history, and the fact that it's made up of immigrants from the world over. People have heritage, but that heritage is in Italy, and England, and India, and Spain and all the rest of it. So people feel rootless people they feel like they got carried away on a breeze and just happened to land where they are.

I've heard many Australians say the same thing. That's why many of them leave the country at some point for a certain time, because they have a deep inner urge to go out and see the world. They think they're sight seeing and taking pictures on their cell phones, but they're actually looking for themselves amongst the tacky souvenir stands and over-priced tourist hot spots.

[markythebill]

It's a good question. I'll take a shot and tell you something close to what it means to me.

My father was born in Italy and came here when he was young. He never finished high school, fought in Vietnam, and we were very poor most (if not all) of my youth.

So, I look at where I am today and what I've accomplished -- college graduate, own my own house and property, and do the only two things I ever really wanted to do with my life (work in sports media and coach) and I appreciate the fact that I live in a country that allowed me to do al of those things.

In many (if not most) countries in the world, someone who grew up with the circumstances I did would never even have the opportunities to accomplish even a sliver of those things.

"Being an American" enabled me to have those opportunities.

(of course this is what it means to an individual. Don't know if you wanted that or what it means to us as it pertains to the world stage).


That's nice, but it also prompts me to mention one thing I've always thought was bullshit... the whole 'only in America' thing. I think it's something that's been perpetuated so much, spoken about so often, that it's now a myth that people just... believe. Those same things happen everywhere in the free world. It happens here, it happens in Australia, it happens in Germany. Yes, it happens in America, but you'd have exactly the same opportunities in many other countries in the world, it's not really unique to America.

It's the same with the whole "America is the most free country on earth". Why? Because it gets preached a lot? Maybe it was at one time, but there are many things you cannot do in America that you can do elsewhere. Gambling is illegal in many parts of the US but over here you can walk into a betting shop in any town or city and, provided you're 18, blow all your money in one go on greyhound racing, football, reality TV shows, anything. You can also drink alcohol here when you're 18, yet when I was in the states (even though I'm over 30) I got ID'd everywhere I went. I had to get finger printed before I could get in the country, they have me on record now, my picture, my details, everything. Many other countries don't do that.

The government has so much access to your information, phone calls, internet usage etc. etc. that, in the free world, America seems like one of the most unfree there is.

And before people start accusing me of bashing America, I'm not, I enjoyed my time there and I enjoy the films from there, much of the music, lots of the food, the TV shows, the football, and many of the people I met.

The point is, in terms of freedom and opportunities, America has more in some areas and less in others.

So that's why I don't think this is what it means to be American, in terms of the quintessentially unique thing that sets a country apart from the rest... I do have plenty of ideas on what I see as making America unique, and I'll post them later, as a foreigner's perspective :bigsmile:

[shiva2999]

That's nice, but it also prompts me to mention one thing I've always thought was bullshit... the whole 'only in America' thing. I think it's something that's been perpetuated so much, spoken about so often, that it's now a myth that people just... believe.

You just don't know what it means to be an American.

[jimmifli]

You are both wrong. Now that I have to give a hint, I'm lowering the award back to 5K.

A kilogram is NOT a unit of weight.
Most people think that weight is what's being measured.

[Green Lantern]

Most people think that weight is what's being measured.

He is being a weinie. Technically, it is the gravitational pull on the equivalent of a liter of water.

[jimmifli]

He is being a weinie. Technically, it is the gravitational pull on the equivalent of a liter of water.

Science types always get off on pointing out general misconceptions that don't technically change anything.

Weenie is a good word.