Driver Tased For Asking Officer Why He Was Stopped

[Meathead]

Man who refused to sign speeding ticket because he did not understand what it was is tased and arrested by officer who then refused to read him his rights

A man was tased and arrested on a Utah highway after being stopped by an officer and refusing to sign a speeding ticket because he did not understand what offence he had committed or why he had been pulled over.

The encounter, captured on the police car camera on September 14th and released this week, is the latest in a long string of incidents involving the unacceptable use of Tasers by officers on citizens whom the evidence reveals are in no way threatening, acting unlawfully or resisting co-operation.

The video shows the Utah Highway Patrolman pull over Jared Massey and his pregnant wife who also had their baby with them in the car and ask for Mr Massey's license.

Mr Massey tells the officer he does not understand why he has been stopped or what he is being charged with, at which point the officer orders Massey to get out of the car. The officer then puts down his clipboard and immediately takes out his Taser and points it at Mr Massey without any provocation whatsoever, yelling "Turn around and put your hands behind your back" as Massey attempts to point out the speed limit sign and engage the officer in conversation.

A shocked Massey asks "what the hell is wrong with you?" and backs away, turning around as the officer had demanded, at which point the officer unleashes 50,000 volts from the Taser into Massey's body, sending him screaming to the ground instantly and causing his wife to jump out of the car and yell hysterically for help.

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http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/211107_driver_tased.html

[Meathead]

two words: hoe lee cow

a. that cop is totally out of control

2. he will be fired

9. that couple will be rich

[micknaboz]

I saw this on cnn's page the other day. The pig should be fired, cuz theres no way in hell that guy deserved to be tasered. It seems like pigs have gotten a bit out of control with these things, I guess they think it better than being shot or something.

Whats worse is probably how much they are used on minorities that we never hear about.

[pmoon6]

Whaaa. Whaaa. Whaaa.

That poor man being abused by that goose stepping moron....Not.

This goes back to how you deal with a police officer.

You don't argue the case with the cop. Sign the ticket and argue in court.

[pmoon6]

I saw this on cnn's page the other day. The pig should be fired, cuz theres no way in hell that guy deserved to be tasered. It seems like pigs have gotten a bit out of control with these things, I guess they think it better than being shot or something.

Whats worse is probably how much they are used on minorities that we never hear about.Take that pig stuff and stick it up your ass, Mick.

[micknaboz]

Take that pig stuff and stick it up your ass, Mick.

What??? You think there aren't a lot of cops who are pigs???

Riiiiiiiiggghhhtt!!! Don't be so naive moon.

[35Pete]

Whaaa. Whaaa. Whaaa.

That poor man being abused by that goose stepping moron....Not.

This goes back to how you deal with a police officer.

You don't argue the case with the cop. Sign the ticket and argue in court.

Don't be a dick. Cops aren't special and they are not above the law. What's wrong with the officer treating him with a little dignity and respect?

[35Pete]

I saw this on cnn's page the other day. The pig should be fired, cuz theres no way in hell that guy deserved to be tasered. It seems like pigs have gotten a bit out of control with these things, I guess they think it better than being shot or something.

Whats worse is probably how much they are used on minorities that we never hear about.

Yeah. It was a pig that pulled him over alright.

[Green Lantern]

I think he deserved it.

[35Pete]

Apparently moonie thinks that cops should be elevated to "lick my boots or I'll beat your ass" status.

Someone needs to teach these guys not to act like gangsters with a badge.

[Lucidvizion]

Okay, 54 seconds into the video:

- Cop pulls dude over.
- Cop: Hi, how are you doing.... you were going kind of fast.
- Cop has already had to ask for license and registration not once, but twice.
- I can already tell this isn't going to end well.


2 mins, 30 seconds:

- Cop tells dude to get out of the car, guy starts pointing at god knows what.
- Cop tells dude to turn around and put his hands behind his back.
- Dude starts walking away and fiddling around in his pocket with his right hand. You do NOT do that when you are interacting with a cop.
- Cop tases him.

100% justified. Cop was either going to tase him or attempt a takedown right next to the freakin highway. I say he chose the better option.

[pmoon6]

What??? You think there aren't a lot of cops who are pigs???

Riiiiiiiiggghhhtt!!! Don't be so naive moon.No, I don't and I know alot of current and former police officers.

[Green Lantern]

Okay, 54 seconds into the video:

- Cop pulls dude over.
- Cop: Hi, how are you doing.... you were going kind of fast.
- Cop has already had to ask for license and registration not once, but twice.
- I can already tell this isn't going to end well.


2 mins, 30 seconds:

- Cop tells dude to get out of the car, guy starts pointing at god knows what.
- Cop tells dude to turn around and put his hands behind his back.
- Dude starts walking away and fiddling around in his pocket with his right hand. You do NOT do that when you are interacting with a cop.
- Cop tases him.

100% justified. Cop was either going to tase him or attempt a takedown right next to the freakin highway. I say he chose the better option.

He did say, you are under arrest, too. At that point you are done.

[dilbert]

Apparently moonie thinks that cops should be elevated to "lick my boots or I'll beat your ass" status.

Someone needs to teach these guys not to act like gangsters with a badge.


"those guys"? Sounds like a stereotype.

Cops also do not need to take the shit they from people. The namecalling, harassment and physical threats, as well as the assaults and attempts on life.

Most cops are honest people trying to do the right thing. The media likes to harp on bad cases or makes cases into bad ones.

[pmoon6]

Apparently moonie thinks that cops should be elevated to "lick my boots or I'll beat your ass" status.

Someone needs to teach these guys not to act like gangsters with a badge.The officer was being courteous until the guy repeatedly argued with him. He didn't ask the guy to "lick his boots". He asked him for his license and registration.

Not an unreasonable demand, but the guy choose to keep up his shit.

What's the officer supposed to do? Say OK, since you're arguing so much Sir, I'll have to let you go?

Personally, I would have dragged the pompous little **** out of the car and beat the shit out of him with the nightstick. But that's just me.

The attitude of some here is exactly what gets some of these guys in trouble.

Pump your chest out and say "You can't push ME around, pig".

Instead of being reasonable with the officer, run your mouth, refuse to comply, and take what you ask for.

[micknaboz]

No, I don't and I know alot of current and former police officers.

Good for you. But to deny that are police officers who really shouldn't be on the job because they are either abusive or not emotionally qualified is pretty naive IMHO.

Look Moon, I have the greatest respect for most police officers. Thats one job I certainly would never want, cuz honestly you just never know when that one traffic stop might end up getting someone killed. For that alone I respect them. Not to mention all the real scum criminals out there in the cities or wherever that they have to deal with.God bless 'em.

But seriously , that cop overreacted. I'm trying to find out how old he is, cuz usually its the young inexperienced ones who are most dangerous and tend to overreact. Some BS macho bravado complex I would guess.


Under patrol policy, troopers can use a Taser if someone is a threat to themselves or others and other means of control are unreasonable, Roden said. Massey has filed a complaint, Roden said. He didn’t know the status of the speeding ticket.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21921393/

I certainly dont think that motorist was a threat to anyone right there, and if the officer thought so he should have a desk job.

[pmoon6]

Don't be a dick. Cops aren't special and they are not above the law. What's wrong with the officer treating him with a little dignity and respect?What's wrong with the general public treating an officer with a little dignity and respect?

[pmoon6]

Good for you. But to deny that are police officers who really shouldn't be on the job because they are either abusive or not emotionally qualified is pretty naive IMHO.

Look Moon, I have the greatest respect for most police officers. Thats one job I certainly would never want, cuz honestly you just never know when that one traffic stop might end up getting someone killed. For that alone I respect them. Not to mention all the real scum criminals out there in the cities or wherever that they have to deal with.God bless 'em.

But seriously , that cop overreacted. I'm trying to find out how old he is, cuz usually its the young inexperienced ones who are most dangerous and tend to overreact. Some BS macho bravado complex I would guess.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21921393/

I certainly dont think that motorist was a threat to anyone right there, and if the officer thought so he should have a desk job.OK Mick, The middle paragraph was great.

I just don't think he overreacted.

Let's agree to disagree, which we so often do.

Here's a thought. With all the lawsuits that are filed against officers, do any of you think that sometimes the person pulled over might exacerbate a situation for the purpose of financial gain?

BTW Mick, nice to see you posting again.

[micknaboz]

What's wrong with the general public treating an officer with a little dignity and respect?

Nothing at all. I certainly do, because I know what they're capable of , and like I said before I really do respect their job and courage.

But its the cops job to diffuse a situation. That situation in no way looked so out of control to justify the cop tasing him. A good cop would never have resorted to the use of a taser in that case. It was premature and uncalled for.

Another thing, anyone with teenage kids should show them this video and explain to them that its always better to show respect then be a jerk, no matter how justified, cuz you never know how the cop might react.

[BF_in_Indiana]

I treat police officers like I treat anyone else. Give me respect and I'll give you respect in turn. Don't respect me and you won't get any in return, badge or not. Cops aren't any better than the general public. Some just think they have more rights than the general public.

[Green Lantern]

I treat police officers like I treat anyone else. Give me respect and I'll give you respect in turn. Don't respect me and you won't get any in return, badge or not. Cops aren't any better than the general public. Some just think they have more rights than the general public.

I think you would not have been arrested then. What is the problem?

[35Pete]

What's wrong with the general public treating an officer with a little dignity and respect?

And he didn't? Pray tell explain to how he did not. The officer asked for his license. He asked about why he was stopped. Is that the definition of disrespect?

The situation WAS NOT out of control. An ordinary citizen was with his wife and had the audacity to ask a question. That is not "losing control of the situation". Who lost control was the paramilitary stormtrooper who shocked him because he said jump and the citizen didn't respond immediately.

Sorry. You don't earn respect just because you wear a badge. And spare me the "protect and serve" shit. This thug certainly didn't live up to that motto, did he?

Ohh. I love the bull shit about an officer's life always being in jeopardy. Sure it is. But that doesn't give you wholesale license to shit all over the people that are supposedly your employer.

Cops are even in the top ten for most dangerous jobs. These guys are. And you don't hear them whining and using it as an excuse.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/16/pf/2005_most_dangerous_jobs/index.htm

[35Pete]

The officer was being courteous until the guy repeatedly argued with him. He didn't ask the guy to "lick his boots". He asked him for his license and registration.

Not an unreasonable demand, but the guy choose to keep up his shit.

What's the officer supposed to do? Say OK, since you're arguing so much Sir, I'll have to let you go?

Personally, I would have dragged the pompous little **** out of the car and beat the shit out of him with the nightstick. But that's just me.

The attitude of some here is exactly what gets some of these guys in trouble.

Pump your chest out and say "You can't push ME around, pig".

Instead of being reasonable with the officer, run your mouth, refuse to comply, and take what you ask for.
Really? Watch the video again. You're definition of "arguing" is absurd. Customers disagree with people that they interact with ALL the time. They don't get the shit knocked out of them because of it. Unless you are a cop. Then it's OK. Afterall they *cough* are always in danger.

[Lucidvizion]

Mick, the thing is, if you polled all of those police officers that you respect and consider to be reasonable, I'd wager that 95%+ of them would have reacted the same way in that situation.

Cops are always watching your hands. The guy was reaching into his right pocket while walking away. If my hand was there I can have my knife deployed and open in under a second, one handed. Gang bangers turn around to draw their guns from the front of their pants.

[35Pete]

Most are decent Mik. But the number of thugs seems to be increasing year after year. It's not too hard for Meathead to find these videos, I'll tell you that. And what percentage of abuses do you think are actually recorded? .1% if we're lucky?

Fact is that if good cops don't stand up and say ENOUGH of this crap then I hold them responsible too.

After all, Who will police the police?

[35Pete]

Mick, the thing is, if you polled all of those police officers that you respect and consider to be reasonable, I'd wager that 95%+ of them would have reacted the same way in that situation.

Cops are always watching your hands. The guy was reaching into his right pocket while walking away. If my hand was there I can have my knife deployed and open in under a second, one handed. Gang bangers turn around to draw their guns from the front of their pants.

It's a piss poor justification for treating the public like dirt.

[35Pete]

"those guys"? Sounds like a stereotype.

Cops also do not need to take the shit they from people. The namecalling, harassment and physical threats, as well as the assaults and attempts on life.

Most cops are honest people trying to do the right thing. The media likes to harp on bad cases or makes cases into bad ones.

A lot of them earned the namecalling, "like jackboot gangstas with a badge", I didn't see a physical threat. (Gimme a break Lucid, people do a lot of stuff subconsciously when nervous, including fiddling with their pockets), attempts on life? Melodramatic. Fact is that a cops job is NOT that dangerous. Au contraire. Perception is one thing, stats are another. True the cops in the really nasty hoods have a tough time of it, but I don't think this particular neck of the woods was crawling with hoodlums. The guy disagreed with the officer. The police need to take anger management classes. Some of those ****ers are plain unstable. And no, it doesn't apply to all cops. I happen to know a real nice one. But some are downright shit bags.

I don't defacto respect the cops. It's earned. And I don't excuse thug behavior or give them a mulligan because they catch bad guys.

[35Pete]

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My neck of the woods.

[35Pete]

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[Lucidvizion]

And he didn't? Pray tell explain to how he did not. The officer asked for his license. He asked about why he was stopped. Is that the definition of disrespect?
The first thing the cop said to him was hello and told him he was going too fast. I thought he was speaking in a very friendly tone of voice. If the driver didn't understand that I don't know why you are defending him, given your contempt of stupid people.

The situation WAS NOT out of control. An ordinary citizen was with his wife and had the audacity to ask a question. That is not "losing control of the situation". Who lost control was the paramilitary stormtrooper who shocked him because he said jump and the citizen didn't respond immediately.
The guy was walking away from a cop and putting his hand in his pocket when he was told he was under arrest. Maybe you don't have an eye for such things, but the cop did what he was trained to do in the situation.

Cops are even in the top ten for most dangerous jobs. These guys are. And you don't hear them whining and using it as an excuse.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/16/pf/2005_most_dangerous_jobs/index.htm

That list is a crock of shit. All those people in other occupations died from accidents. They don't go wading into trouble on a daily basis with body armor and a trained readiness to deal with life-threatening problems.

[35Pete]

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[dilbert]

A lot of them earned the namecalling, "like jackboot gangstas with a badge", I didn't see a physical threat. (Gimme a break Lucid, people do a lot of stuff subconsciously when nervous, including fiddling with their pockets), attempts on life? Melodramatic. Fact is that a cops job is NOT that dangerous. Au contraire. Perception is one thing, stats are another. True the cops in the really nasty hoods have a tough time of it, but I don't think this particular neck of the woods was crawling with hoodlums. The guy disagreed with the officer. The police need to take anger management classes. Some of those ****ers are plain unstable. And no, it doesn't apply to all cops. I happen to know a real nice one. But some are downright shit bags.

I don't defacto respect the cops. It's earned. And I don't excuse thug behavior or give them a mulligan because they catch bad guys.

I know some that will disagree about a cops job not being dangerous. Even in a rural area. It happened too close to home a little over a year ago. About 5 miles from Mom and Dad a trooper was shot dead. In rural Chautauqua County. By a man people were openly rooting for and had supporters that were glad he shot and killed a cop.

So don't try the BS that it is not dangerous. What makes it dangerous is that they are targets for whackos who have a problem with any authority.

I also have a friend that is a cop in SC. He got shot during a routine traffic stop.

Good thing he did not see the person reach into his pocket. He might have defended himself. And that is bad, why?

There is following along like a robot and there is showing a small amount of respect. Showing a cop a modicum of respect is not unreasonable.

[35Pete]

The first thing the cop said to him was hello and told him he was going too fast. If the driver didn't understand that I don't know why you are defending him, given your contempt of stupid people.

He disagreed with him. It isn't against the law to disagree. He also has a right to NOT sign the damn document.


The guy was walking away from a cop and putting his hand in his pocket when he was told he was under arrest. Maybe you don't have an eye for such things, but the cop did what he was trained to do in the situation.

The guy freaked out that the cop had a taser in his hand. I imagine a lot of people would have reacted the same way. Fact is if the taser is not pulled this situation doesn't happen.

That list is a crock of shit. All those people in other occupations died from accidents. They don't go wading into trouble on a daily basis with body armor and a trained readiness to deal with life-threatening problems.

You've said a whole lot of nothing here. It's not among the most dangerous jobs. Stats are stats. A death is a death and an injury an injury no matter the cause.


ahem..

[35Pete]

I know some that will disagree about a cops job not being dangerous. Even in a rural area. It happened too close to home a little over a year ago. About 5 miles from Mom and Dad a trooper was shot dead. In rural Chautauqua County. By a man people were openly rooting for and had supporters that were glad he shot and killed a cop.

So don't try the BS that it is not dangerous. What makes it dangerous is that they are targets for whackos who have a problem with any authority.

I also have a friend that is a cop in SC. He got shot during a routine traffic stop.

Good thing he did not see the person reach into his pocket. He might have defended himself. And that is bad, why?

There is following along like a robot and there is showing a small amount of respect. Showing a cop a modicum of respect is not unreasonable.

Yeah I know the Bucky case. Why do you suppose so many on this board were cheering for Bucky? (I wasn't).

Not all people are whackos and that doesn't give the troops the right to treat us like we are.

Defended himself? Reaching into a pocket is not a hostile act. Pulling a weapon out of it is. Stop apologizing for such bad behavior. You and others only enable.

[dilbert]

Yeah I know the Bucky case. Why do you suppose so many on this board were cheering for Bucky? (I wasn't).

Not all people are whackos and that doesn't give the troops the right to treat us like we are.

Defended himself? Reaching into a pocket is not a hostile act. Pulling a weapon out of it is. Stop apologizing for such bad behavior. You and others only enable.


If he waits for a weapon to appear, it is probably too late. Which is the reason for tazers. Non deadly force.

As for the reason people cheered for Bucky is becasue there are too many idiots in the world. Bucky's inbred family is proof of that.

[Lucidvizion]

Pete, it is a crime to resist arrest. Resisting arrest because you think you are innocent is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You are acquitted for what you were arrested for, but you are still charged for resisting arrest.

The guy freaked out that the cop had a taser in his hand. I imagine a lot of people would have reacted the same way. Fact is if the taser is not pulled this situation doesn't happen.
The guy was under arrest... what was the cop supposed to do?

Get in the car!
No!
Get in the car!
No!
Get in the car!
No!
Get in the car!
No!
Get in the car!
No!

... If the guy got back in his car and drove away is the cop supposed to follow him home?

[Green Lantern]

And he didn't? Pray tell explain to how he did not. The officer asked for his license. He asked about why he was stopped. Is that the definition of disrespect?

The situation WAS NOT out of control. An ordinary citizen was with his wife and had the audacity to ask a question. That is not "losing control of the situation". Who lost control was the paramilitary stormtrooper who shocked him because he said jump and the citizen didn't respond immediately.

Sorry. You don't earn respect just because you wear a badge. And spare me the "protect and serve" shit. This thug certainly didn't live up to that motto, did he?

Ohh. I love the bull shit about an officer's life always being in jeopardy. Sure it is. But that doesn't give you wholesale license to shit all over the people that are supposedly your employer.

Cops are even in the top ten for most dangerous jobs. These guys are. And you don't hear them whining and using it as an excuse.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/16/pf/2005_most_dangerous_jobs/index.htm

The officer said, you are under arrest. You do not walk away from that.

[pmoon6]

I really want Pete to solve the problem and give those bastard cops what's comin' to 'em.

Next time you get pulled over, just pull the pistol and commence to fightin'.

[dasaybz]

That cop was a serious ****ing *******.

Talk about a power tripping son of a bitch.

[uppy]

:rofl:

I'd have tased the Wife too,when she started flapping her gums.Come on the
Guy was a moron all he had to do was to sign the ticket and be on his way.

[shotgun]

it's the same thing at the bills game. them m/f in them yellow jackets are out to hurt people. there all on power trips and jabbing your knee into someone back is ****ing rong. i would love to slug everyonr one of them m/f in the ****ing mouth

[SpikedLemonade]

...I predict tazers will be banned in less than a year here.

There have been a few recent very public situations where the use of the tazer did result in death.

There are public inqueries underway and the Canadian gmeral population isn't going to tolerate the continued use of tazers unless the guidelines for their use is severely restricted.

[35Pete]

If he waits for a weapon to appear, it is probably too late. Which is the reason for tazers. Non deadly force.

As for the reason people cheered for Bucky is becasue there are too many idiots in the world. Bucky's inbred family is proof of that.

I did not support the Bucky cheerleaders and I still don't. Nothing indicated to me that those police that he shot were abusive. They had wives and children. In fact I was rather hostile to the Run Bucky Run group. Misdirected blame. My beef is with the rogue cops and especially with whoever is training officers to take an adversarial approach to the public. We are not bad people. We are not the enemy. And they are not gods. Show respect, get respect. It's academic Dilbert. I have no reason to think that you'd disagree with that. But the onus of respect is not exclusively the domain of the citizenry.

I don't respect authority for the mere sack of it being "authority". I respect it because it is supposed to represent an ideal. It is supposed to represent justice and protection from chaos. And anyone that truly lives by that ideal on their beat will earn near reverence from me. But it is not automatic. It is not a birthrite of initiation into the police force. No sir.

That cop did not represent justice. He did not "protect and serve". And for that, and that particular cop, I spit on him.

[35Pete]

That cop was a serious ****ing *******.

Talk about a power tripping son of a bitch.

That's entirely the point. I DON'T hate cops. I hate powertripping little shit bags with flat top haircuts and flashbacks from combat.

But I do partially blame the force as a whole for not cracking down on this crap. But not with a hatred. More disappointment and frustration.

[35Pete]

What the **** was he under arrest for? The power to arrest is NOT arbitrary. What law did he violate? Arguing a ticket? Refusing to sign? Bull shit.

[uppy]

What the **** was he under arrest for? The power to arrest is NOT arbitrary. What law did he violate? Arguing a ticket? Refusing to sign? Bull shit.

I'm not a lawyer but I think you can be busted for disobaying a officer when driving.

Its not the same thing as a person walking down the street

[Green Lantern]

What the **** was he under arrest for? The power to arrest is NOT arbitrary. What law did he violate? Arguing a ticket? Refusing to sign? Bull shit.

You tell me Pete, do you know if he violated Utah law by not signing a ticket?

[35Pete]

You tell me Pete, do you know if he violated Utah law by not signing a ticket?

This amazing video reveals how eroded civil and constitutional rights have now become. The officer had no legal right to make Massey sign any document he did not understand
...

[35Pete]

Hey Guys. Did any of you read this???????? The "Yeah Votes" look pretty stupid now, don't they?

Lying face down on the ground a shell shocked, Mr Massey says "officer I don't know what you are doing, I don't know why you are doing what you are doing" to which the officer replies "I am placing you under arrest because you did not obey my instruction."

Mr Massey then once again asks the officer several times why he was stopped and what he is being charged with. He then asks for his rights to be read and points out that the officer cannot arrest him without doing this. Instead of reading Massey his rights the officer then addresses another patrolman who arrives on the scene sardonically commenting "Ohhh he took a ride with the Taser" to which the other officer answers "painful isn't it".

The icing on the cake comes at the end of the video when the officer LIES to his own colleague about the encounter, clearly stating that he verbally warned Massey he was going to tase him, as is the law, when there was no warning whatsoever.

Mr Massey is planning to file a lawsuit against the Utah Highway Patrol. He says he was already slowing down as he approached the 40 mile per hour sign in the construction zone outside of vernal. All charges except for the speeding ticket have been dropped.

This amazing video reveals how eroded civil and constitutional rights have now become. The officer had no legal right to make Massey sign any document he did not understand

[Green Lantern]

...

And when an officer places you under arrest, is it up for debate?

[35Pete]

And when an officer places you under arrest, is it up for debate?

If it is an unlawful arrest then GODDAMNED YES. It's his duty to resist an unlawful arrest. There was no probable cause for anything. He did nothing illegal other than perhaps speed, which is not an arrestable offense. He didn't understand what he was signing. That's not cause for arrest to refuse if you don't know what you are signing. That cop ought to be arrested and charged with battery.

[uppy]

If the officer had no legal right Massey would have won in court.But on the road side
he must follow the officer's instructions

[35Pete]

And when an officer places you under arrest, is it up for debate?

What are your thoughts on the clip in post #49?

[Green Lantern]

If it is an unlawful arrest then GODDAMNED YES. It's his duty to resist an unlawful arrest. There was no probable cause for anything. He did nothing illegal. He didn't understand what he was signing. That's not cause for arrest. That cop ought to be arrested and charged with battery.

A non-retarded person living and driving a car in the US does not understand a speeding ticket? I highly doubt that. He may not understand why he is getting a ticket, but I am sure he understood what a ticket is since the officer said he was giving him one.

I do not trust the link to tell me what Utah law is regarding the need to sign a ticket since the rest of the article is biased. My citation for bias is that the author claims the victim was complying with the officer before he was tazed and it is clear to me from watching the video that he was not turning around, as instructed, but walking away from the officer.

[35Pete]

IT appears that Canada is adopting some of our shitty tactics too. Wonder what the US stats are.

Most people hit with RCMP Tasers unarmed: reports

Updated Sun. Nov. 18 2007 9:13 PM ET

The Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- Three out of four suspects stun-gunned by the RCMP were unarmed, indicates a review of 563 cases that shows Tasers are often used for compliance rather than to defuse major threats.

A Canadian Press analysis of Taser incidents reported by the Mounties reveals that more than 79 per cent of those zapped were not brandishing a weapon.

In just over one-fifth of cases, the suspect had a knife, bottle, club or other weapon.

The figures, compiled from hundreds of partially censored pages filed by RCMP officers, highlight police preference for the 50,000-volt tool that helps them control dangerous situations with usually minimal injury.

But they also suggest a pattern of use by the Mounties as a quick means to keep relatively low-risk prisoners, drunks and unruly suspects in line.

Electronic guns have come under intense international scrutiny since the sudden death of Robert Dziekanski, a Polish immigrant whose videotaped ordeal at the Vancouver airport last month has been flashed around the globe. He died after being hit twice with a Taser and subdued by the RCMP.

The national police force is reviewing its Taser policies and procedures and is to report to Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day.

The 606 incidents analyzed by The Canadian Press took place between March 2002 and March 2005, the latest data available from the RCMP under the Access to Information Act. (In 43 cases, officers removed a Taser from its holster but did not fire.)

Most incidents by far were recorded in western Canada where the RCMP leads front-line policing. Many involved First Nations.

<a hred="http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071118/taser_reports_071118/20071118?hub=TorontoHome"><b>Read The Rest at CTV.ca</b></a>

[BF_in_Indiana]

I don't see what was so wrong with this guy asking a question. I'm sure some of you have seen the video of the guy screaming at a cop for a traffic ticket. Just SCREAMING at him the entire time. Then he throws the ticket in the cops face. The officer makes him get out and pick it up never raising his voice. This guy asks a question and gets tasered? I mean come on. We need people to enforce our laws. We don't need Dirty Harry running aloof.

[35Pete]

A non-retarded person living and driving a car in the US does not understand a speeding ticket? I highly doubt that. He may not understand why he is getting a ticket, but I am sure he understood what a ticket is since the officer said he was giving him one.

I do not trust the link to tell me what Utah law is regarding the need to sign a ticket since the rest of the article is biased. My citation for bias is that the author claims the victim was complying with the officer before he was tazed and it is clear to me from watching the video that he was not turning around, as instructed, but walking away from the officer.

I blew a stop sign two years ago. The cop wrote me the ticket and asked me to sign. I politely told him "No sir, I am not admitting to doing anything wrong". He then explained to me that signing was not an admission of guilt and pointed to the fine print below the signature line. I read it and signed it.

I initially did not know what I was signing. Thank God he didn't zap me for it.

[Green Lantern]

What are your thoughts on the clip in post #49?

I heard the officer tell him he was under arrest. And an officer needn't read you your rights immediately. What you say cannot be held against you in court until they read you your rights.

[Green Lantern]

I blew a stop sign two years ago. The cop wrote me the ticket and asked me to sign. I politely told him "No sir, I am not admitting to doing anything wrong". He then explained to me that signing was not an admission of guilt and pointed to the fine print below the signature line. I read it and signed it.

I initially did not know what I was signing. Thank God he didn't zap me for it.

Too true.

You seem to forget that the cop could be punished AND the guy could still be wrong. When a policeman draws a weapon, points it at you, tells you that you are under arrest, and begins giving you instructions, you really do need to see that you are going with him.

My biggest objection is that the cop left him lying on the ground next to the highway while he spoke to the wife. I would have preferred to have been placed in the squadcar rather than lie on the white line with traffic zooming past.

[35Pete]

A non-retarded person living and driving a car in the US does not understand a speeding ticket? I highly doubt that. He may not understand why he is getting a ticket, but I am sure he understood what a ticket is since the officer said he was giving him one.

I do not trust the link to tell me what Utah law is regarding the need to sign a ticket since the rest of the article is biased. My citation for bias is that the author claims the victim was complying with the officer before he was tazed and it is clear to me from watching the video that he was not turning around, as instructed, but walking away from the officer.

You should read this. This blog cites Utah law.

http://exposedcorruption.blogspot.com/2007/11/hwy-patrolman-arresting-and-tasing-man.html

[35Pete]

I heard the officer tell him he was under arrest. And an officer needn't read you your rights immediately. What you say cannot be held against you in court until they read you your rights.

Then why were the charges dropped?

[Green Lantern]

I don't see what was so wrong with this guy asking a question. I'm sure some of you have seen the video of the guy screaming at a cop for a traffic ticket. Just SCREAMING at him the entire time. Then he throws the ticket in the cops face. The officer makes him get out and pick it up never raising his voice. This guy asks a question and gets tasered? I mean come on. We need people to enforce our laws. We don't need Dirty Harry running aloof.

My point is again that the cop could be wrong and that this does not pardon the the driver. Once the words, "you are under arrest" are uttered, you hurt yourself by doing anything other than complying. Sue him later, file a complaint with the department, whatever, but first you are going into the back of that squadcar.

[Green Lantern]

Then why were the charges dropped?

I do not know Pete, why were they dropped?

[35Pete]

My point is again that the cop could be wrong and that this does not pardon the the driver. Once the words, "you are under arrest" are uttered, you hurt yourself by doing anything other than complying. Sue him later, file a complaint with the department, whatever, but first you are going into the back of that squadcar.

In terms of practicality you are correct. In terms of principle you are not IMO.

[uppy]

Then why were the charges dropped?


Perhaps he said he was sorry and learned a lesson and the Cop gave him a brake .

[35Pete]

Perhaps he said he was sorry and learned a lesson and the Cop gave him a brake .

You should be tased for your spelling. It's cruelty on a mass scale. And I thought my spelling sucked. :D

[Green Lantern]

"77-7-18. Citation on misdemeanor or infraction charge.
A peace officer, in lieu of taking a person into custody, any public official of any county or municipality charged with the enforcement of the law, a port-of-entry agent as defined in Section 72-1-102, and a volunteer authorized to issue a citation under Section 41-6a-213 may issue and deliver a citation requiring any person subject to arrest or prosecution on a misdemeanor or infraction charge to appear at the court of the magistrate before whom the person should be taken pursuant to law if the person had been arrested. "

I think the law is clear that the officer can opt for taking a driver in, if they so choose. The law above states that in lieu of taking them in a citation may be issued.

[uppy]

You should be tased for your spelling. It's cruelty on a mass scale. And I thought my spelling sucked. :D

the range needs spellcheck

[35Pete]

"77-7-18. Citation on misdemeanor or infraction charge.
A peace officer, in lieu of taking a person into custody, any public official of any county or municipality charged with the enforcement of the law, a port-of-entry agent as defined in Section 72-1-102, and a volunteer authorized to issue a citation under Section 41-6a-213 may issue and deliver a citation requiring any person subject to arrest or prosecution on a misdemeanor or infraction charge to appear at the court of the magistrate before whom the person should be taken pursuant to law if the person had been arrested. "

I think the law is clear that the officer can opt for taking a driver in, if they so choose. The law above states that in lieu of taking them in a citation may be issued.

Where does he say that he has to sign it? And I don't know why the charges were dropped. But I suspect that the police would face either holy hell from the public or they would get killed in court. Or the lawsuit damages might go up even higher.

The officer is required to inform of why he is being arrested. Did you read all the legal citations in that thread?

[uppy]

Perhaps he said he was sorry and learned a lesson

[Green Lantern]

Where does he say that he has to sign it? And I don't know why the charges were dropped. But I suspect that the police would face either holy hell from the public or they would get killed in court. Or the lawsuit damages might go up even higher.

I do not believe the code states that he must sign it. I believe the code says the policeman has the option to arrest a speeder or cite them. Maybe the guy was being a smart-mouth ***** and the cop thought it would be fun to ruin his day by cuffing him. Motivations do not really concern me though. When a person draws a weapon and points it at you, only a fool turns their back and walks away.

[35Pete]

I do not believe the code states that he must sign it. I believe the code says the policeman has the option to arrest a speeder or cite them. Maybe the guy was being a smart-mouth ***** and the cop thought it would be fun to ruin his day by cuffing him. Motivations do not really concern me though. When a person draws a weapon and points it at you, only a fool turns their back and walks away.

Some key points. He didn't inform him that he was under arrest. Two. He didn't look like he was fleeing. In fact, he looked freaked. Utah law clearly states that the officer needed to a.) read him his rights, b.) inform him that he's under arrest. The officer did neither.

Aqua. It seems that tasing is rapidly replacing a lot of officers people skills. That's sad.

[uppy]

You don't need to read a person his rights until you question him

[35Pete]

Actually aqua, according to Utah law you are correct. Refusing to sign the citation is refusting to promise to appear in court.

Read this article and tell me what you think. The tasing is bull shit though. That's the crux of this thread. Let's get back on track.


What's next if driver won't sign ticket?
By Pat Reavy and Geoffrey Fattah

Deseret Morning News


Taser victim says UHP is 'stonewalling'

One of the many charged debates on Internet message boards in response to the controversial Taser incident in Uintah County is whether a driver being issued a citation is required to actually sign the ticket. And if the driver doesn't, what, if anything, happens next.

Is refusal a separate criminal penalty? Grounds for arrest? A citizen's right?

The debate rages after a dashboard camera from a highway patrol trooper's car was posted on YouTube, detailing an exchange that played out between officer John Gardner and a motorist he had stopped, Jared Massey.

In the video, Massey refuses to sign a speeding ticket in a Sept. 14 traffic stop, is asked to step out of his SUV and, after refusing to obey the officer's verbal commands, is Tasered.

Video viewers are lining up on both sides of the debate, defending on one hand an officer who was dealing with a belligerent, noncompliant motorist and on the other criticizing a Taser-happy trooper who was quick to reach for his Taser first and try to verbally de-escalate the situation later.

UHP spokesman Cameron Roden said if a driver refuses to sign a speeding ticket, the officer who pulled that person over has several options.

"If you sign a citation, it's not admitting guilt by any means. It just says you'll promise to appear in court," he said. "If someone refuses to sign the citation, they're refusing to appear in court."

At that point, the arresting officer has the option of taking the driver into custody and to a hearing before the local magistrate, Roden said.

Salt Lake civil rights attorney Brian Barnard agreed police do have the right to arrest a driver who does not sign a speeding ticket.

Refusing to sign a ticket is not a crime under Utah state law. Signing a citation but then failing to show up in court, however, is a class B misdemeanor.

Another option if a driver refuses to sign a ticket is for the officer to "put it in the car in a professional manner and leave it at that," Roden said.

The action an officer takes against drivers refusing to sign speeding tickets is different in every department. In Salt Lake County and some of the state's bigger cities, taking a person into custody for refusing to sign a ticket may not be an option because of jail overcrowding issues, Roden said. Most departments also leave it to the discretion of the arresting officer to evaluate all the circumstances of any given situation.

Unless there is legal action involved, Roden said all Taser deployments by UHP troopers are reviewed internally and not by an outside agency.

From what Barnard has seen on the YouTube video, he does not believe the driver should have been Tasered.

"There is no legal nor factual justification for what the trooper did," he said. "Asking a cop questions and being upset that you have been stopped for speeding is not justification for the use of such force."

Barnard did not believe the driver was "out of control." Furthermore, the trooper still had control of the situation before pulling out his Taser, Barnard said.

"The flippant comments confirm the trooper's malice and clear intention to harm the speeder rather than to control a situation," he said. "A person who abuses his power, acts so unprofessional and then jokes about it, should not be in law enforcement."

Barnard further criticized what he called the trooper's use of excessive force by saying, "It appears that the Taser was a new 'toy' that the trooper could not wait to use on someone."

Roden said an investigation into the trooper's conduct is being expedited. Officials hope to have it completed by early next week, he said.

The trooper involved in the incident is a 14-year veteran, Roden said, who remains on duty.

The UHP has a policy for when Tasers can be deployed. Those situations include if a person is threatening himself or others, if other means of control have proved insufficient and if the use of more force would endanger more people.

...more....

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695230005,00.html

[Green Lantern]

Some key points. He didn't inform him that he was under arrest. Two. He didn't look like he was fleeing. In fact, he looked freaked. Utah law clearly states that the officer needed to a.) read him his rights, b.) inform him that he's under arrest. The officer did neither.

Aqua. It seems that tasing is rapidly replacing a lot of officers people skills. That's sad.

I agree that tazers are used too often.

In this case, the officer drew a weapon, pointed it at the driver and told him to turn around and put his hands behind his back. The man did not comply but rather turned, said something to the effect "what's your problem?" and began walking away. The officer made a choice to use his weapon. That is a judgement call. He might have holstered the weapon and jumped the guy or tried to baton him, or whatever, before the driver made it back to his vehicle. Again, a judgement call. Maybe bad judgement and maybe he will be reprimanded for it. Maybe the officer will be in trouble for not getting to "you are under arrest" before the guy walked away. I do not know those rules, and you are too biased on this for me to take your word for it. I do know that a cop does not need to read you your rights before he cuffs you or even immediately after that. If it is more pressing to get control of the situation, your rights being read can wait. He is just not able to use anything you do or say against you.

Maybe that is why the charges were dropped.

[Lucidvizion]

IT appears that Canada is adopting some of our shitty tactics too. Wonder what the US stats are.

Most people hit with RCMP Tasers unarmed: reports



You shoot armed people with your gun. Tasers are for avoiding wrestling (which is a shitty thing to do at the side of a highway).

[35Pete]

You shoot armed people with your gun. Tasers are for avoiding wrestling (which is a shitty thing to do at the side of a highway).

So you don't warn him? You just zap him? Come on stormtrooper. That's not right. And you know it.

[35Pete]

I agree that tazers are used too often.

In this case, the officer drew a weapon, pointed it at the driver and told him to turn around and put his hands behind his back. The man did not comply but rather turned, said something to the effect "what's your problem?" and began walking away. The officer made a choice to use his weapon. That is a judgement call. He might have holstered the weapon and jumped the guy or tried to baton him, or whatever, before the driver made it back to his vehicle. Again, a judgement call. Maybe bad judgement and maybe he will be reprimanded for it. Maybe the officer will be in trouble for not getting to "you are under arrest" before the guy walked away. I do not know those rules, and you are too biased on this for me to take your word for it. I do know that a cop does not need to read you your rights before he cuffs you or even immediately after that. If it is more pressing to get control of the situation, your rights being read can wait. He is just not able to use anything you do or say against you.

Maybe that is why the charges were dropped.

Word has it that he didn't have his rights read period. That's what the blogosphere is reporting.

[35Pete]

This Utah Op-Ed pretty much sums it up IMO.

Tasers gone wild

....First, Jared Massey is an ass. He's the guy who everyone hopes won't find out about the barbecue. The man likes to hear himself talk.

Second, John Gardner is not a patient man. After Massey refused to sign the ticket, Gardner was faced with two choices: he could have written "refuses to sign" on the ticket or hauled the loudmouth to jail. Gardner chose the latter and decided a Taser would be the best way to shut him up.

Massey isn't a dangerous criminal. Massey is the guy who answers his cell phone during a movie or brings his brood of children to a classy restaurant.

Massey is guilty -- guilty of being annoying. But that isn't enough to warrant 50,000 volts.

In the last five years, Tasers have killed more than 200. The term non-lethal weapon is an oxymoron. If someone's heart is at a heightened state, there is a chance he or she will experience heart failure after being Tasered.

What could put your heart at a heightened state? Perhaps having a Taser pointed at you?

I would not take away an officer's Taser anymore than I would take away his gun or his badge. The police must have every means available to keep order. The job isn't easy. Even if officers are never in harm's way, putting up with people like Massey is hard enough.

Yet if everyone were Tasered for being annoying, our streets would be full of convulsing, screaming people. The 15-item express line at the supermarket would be a pile of bodies. There would be no one to run the Department of Motor Vehicles. Rocky Anderson would have never accomplished anything as a quivering mass on the floor.

Gardner is just another in a line of uniformed men who treats his badge as a license of superiority. His biggest concern, as shown in the video, was that Massey didn't know who was in charge.

His concern should have been safety. His concern should have been to uphold the law peacefully. Too often those drawn to a profession of authority are the very people who should be given none.

Gardner should be punished. Anything less would be shocking.

<a href="http://media.www.dailyutahchronicle.com/media/storage/paper244/news/2007/11/27/Opinion/Tasers.Gone.Wild-3116649.shtml?reffeature=recentlycommentedstoriest ab"><b>The Whole Article</b></a>

[Green Lantern]

LOL. ...Answers his cell phone during a movie...

[35Pete]

LOL. ...Answers his cell phone during a movie...

This is a good read. Took me a while to dig it up because I read it a while ago.

<a href="http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=1A01E91E134A327080256F190042408D"><b>Amnesty International USA: Excessive and lethal force? Amnesty International's concerns about deaths and ill-treatment involving police use of tasers</b></a>

Enjoy. The damned thing was prophetic.

[35Pete]

What a dumbass. The guy SAYS on camera to the other cop "I told him to turn around or I'll taze him". He flat out lied. (9:40 of the tape).

You know what they say "The eye in the sky never lies". Might not be in the sky but you get the point.

You people defending him now feeling a little stupid? You really should. Cause you look stupid defending a lying crooked cop.

Aqua. THAT's why the charges were dismissed.

Hmm. I wonder how often lies are used in court. Tell me. Why should your word vs the officer have any less weight? Shouldn't be.

[Green Lantern]

What a dumbass. The guy SAYS on camera to the other cop "I told him to turn around or I'll taze him". He flat out lied. (9:40 of the tape).

You know what they say "The eye in the sky never lies". Might not be in the sky but you get the point.

You people defending him now feeling a little stupid? You really should. Cause you look stupid defending a lying crooked cop.

Aqua. THAT's why the charges were dismissed.

Hmm. I wonder how often lies are used in court. Tell me. Why should your word vs the officer have any less weight? Shouldn't be.

I never said the cop was not out of line, I said the guy deserved to be tasered. Maybe the cop should lose his job too.

When a policeman draws his weapon, points it at you, and tells you to turn around, you deserve what you get when you ignore him and walk away.

[35Pete]

I never said the cop was not out of line, I said the guy deserved to be tasered. Maybe the cop should lose his job too.

When a policeman draws his weapon, points it at you, and tells you to turn around, you deserve what you get when you ignore him and walk away.

But the fact that the officer is a blatant fabricator of the truth should clearly lead you to suspect fitness of his mental/emotional capacity as a peace officer, would it not? Therefore, I would surmise that his "judgement" cannot be called "good judgement" by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, this guy is the very definition of a rogue cop.

[micknaboz]

I

When a policeman draws his weapon, points it at you, and tells you to turn around, you deserve what you get when you ignore him and walk away.

"You deserve what you get"?? WTF Really?

That has facism written all over it Aqua. A person may be dumb or disrespectful or whatever, but that does not mean they deserve to be shot in the back. That you think so is a sad reflection on your character and values.

[Green Lantern]

"You deserve what you get"?? WTF Really?

That has facism written all over it Aqua. A person may be dumb or disrespectful or whatever, but that does not mean they deserve to shot in the back. That you think so is a sad reflection on your character and values.

If you are so dumb as to not notice that you are in a dangerous situation when someone, no matter their position or supposed rationality, draws a weapon and points it at you, it says something about you.

One of Pete's links claims that the guy thought it was a gun. You turn your back on a man pointing a gun at you? Good luck in this life if that is the case.

[35Pete]

OMG.

Mik. 2:20 on the video. He DOESN'T have his hand in his pocket. Lucid and aqua are incorrect. He has his thumb in his pocket. That's a far cry from reaching into your pocket and a VERY COMMON subconscious posture. And he NEVER SAID get your hand out of your pocket (which wasn't there anyways).

[Green Lantern]

OMG.

Mik. 2:20 on the video. He DOESN'T have his hand in his pocket. Lucid and aqua are incorrect. He has his thumb in his pocket. That's a far cry from reaching into your pocket and a VERY COMMON subconscious posture.

I have not said he reached in his pocket.

[35Pete]

I have not said he reached in his pocket.

My apologies then. Lucid is the one misrepresenting the video.

[Green Lantern]

My apologies then. Lucid is the one misrepresenting the video.

Well, I remember him saying it, not me. But I don't feel like going over all my posts to see if I am right.

[micknaboz]

If you are so dumb as to not notice that you are in a dangerous situation when someone, no matter their position or supposed rationality, draws a weapon and points it at you, it says something about you.

One of Pete's links claims that the guy thought it was a gun. You turn your back on a man pointing a gun at you? Good luck in this life if that is the case.

What it says is that the person may have a serious case of stupidity. The guy is probably an arrogant , self centered yuppie too stupid to realize you don't **** with cops. But that doesn't equate to "deserving" to be shot in the back by a cop.
Sorry , but cops are there to "serve and protect".
I think that cop lost control and his only response was to lash out. We should demand higher standards from those paid to serve and protect us.

[Scary Good]

Dude was a ****ing ****.
Hit the ground, *****.

[35Pete]

Dude was a ****ing ****.
Hit the ground, *****.

And I thought that this thread was going to be "stupid comment free".

[35Pete]

Interesting. The 72% that say the tasing was BS represent the whole political spectrum here.

Just an observation. Why do you suppose that is?

[Green Lantern]

What it says is that the person may have a serious case of stupidity. The guy is probably an arrogant , self centered yuppie too stupid to realize you don't **** with cops. But that doesn't equate to "deserving" to be shot in the back by a cop.
Sorry , but cops are there to "serve and protect".
I think that cop lost control and his only response was to lash out. We should demand higher standards from those paid to serve and protect us.

You are talking de jure and I am talking de facto. I think this is where we are miscommunicating.

In this world, if a man pulls a weapon on you and you turn your back on them, you get what you deserve.

On a motorcycle you must be aware for yourself and be aware for those in cars because often they do not see you. You can just obey the law, get hit, and die...and be right. But you are still dead. That may not be fair or right or just but it IS.

This idiot did not appreciate the seriousness of the situation he was in and it cost him.

[Scary Good]

Ok, seriously...get a life.
The dude was a dick the whole time, when teh cop was nothing but nice.
Maybe if the guy didn't run his mouth and going in his pockets, he wouldn't have been dropped.

[35Pete]

Ok, seriously...get a life.
The dude was a dick the whole time, when teh cop was nothing but nice.
Maybe if the guy didn't run his mouth and going in his pockets, he wouldn't have been dropped.

Jesus.

[JLB]

Interesting. The 72% that say the tasing was BS represent the whole political spectrum here.

Just an observation. Why do you suppose that is?

It's common sense. :dunno:

[35Pete]

Ok, seriously...get a life.
The dude was a dick the whole time, when teh cop was nothing but nice.
Maybe if the guy didn't run his mouth and going in his pockets, he wouldn't have been dropped.

I have a life. I think, I don't emote. Try it sometime.

Two. The cop was nice? By that scale are you nice? Cause that would make you a dick in real life. Surely you don't want to call him "nice".

Three. Watch the whole video. He wasn't "going for his pockets". He had his thumb in his pocket. I won't let that disinformation continue to propagate.

[Scary Good]

I watched the video. He was nothing but a *****. You can't go anywhere near your pockets, especially while disobeying police commands.

[Meathead]

man its unreal how people can watch the same thing and come to totally different conclusions

there are some valid arguments on both sides here, some stuff i hadnt thought of or seen in the video before i voted

but one thing is crystal clear:

THIS MAN SHOULD NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BE A POLICE OFFICER

you all know that i normally back the cops and encourage strict respectful behavior with police officers

but this cop is just a disaster waiting to happen. he CLEARLY has a fuse the size of dilberts penis. if a cop flies off the freakin handle like that just because some redneck pauses getting out his paperwork then you are eventually going to create a situation that gets people killed for no reason

- sure the first few words out of the cops mouth sounded calm but he IMMEDIATELY became extremely aggressive and disrespectful and unprofessional when the redneck hesitated on the paperwork. hes acting like hes just itching to kick some ass. if hes always like that hes gonna end up dead cuz one day hes gonna piss off the wrong civilian at the wrong time. completely unnecessary posture for him to take

- he completely ignores and brushes off the speeders questions. sure the redneck might have been just trying to delay to be a dick but why was is so imperative to force the situation into an escalation? did the cop have a donut break in two minutes?

- he very haughtily just commands ‘you WILL sign it.’ wow how professional. sir you will sign zee papers NOW. yeah it would have been so difficult and unreasonable to say ‘sir signing the papers is not an admission of guilt blah blah blah.’

- so then when the cop got the redneck all worked up by being a total dick and treating him like the scum of the earth right from the get go, he dramatically escalates the situation by doing the total dick power move and making this grandiose gesture reaching for his taser with his arm way up in the air. he reminds me there of those jackass macho dudes that drink their beer with their elbow way over their head. what a total power loving ass hole. he was just dying to taser that guy. he loved it

- true, once arrested you should just shut up and go along and expect it gets sorted out later. but again, the cop going for the arrest was RIDICULOUSLY quick. completely and utterly unprofessional. he made virtually zero effort to reason with the guy. it was like this was his objective all along. he was a total dick to the speeder then was just dying to get his big bust. of a speeder. nice job taking down a desperado rambo

- redneck reaching into pocket was BIG mistake. yes i agree after ALL that the cop did to provoke the guy, in a technicality i would say at that point it was proper to tase him. yeah nice job there constable. work the guy up into a lather over a stupid speeding ticket so you can feel like a big hero shocking the shit out of him. man what a TOTAL jackass

bottom line: this cop went totally gestapo seconds into the pullover. he COMPLETELY created the end result of this situation by being a total ********. he could have easily taken umpteen opportunities to keep it calm and professional and he did the exact opposite

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE WAY WE SHOULD EXPECT OUR COPS TO ACT IN SUCH SITUATIONS

im pretty easy going and usually get out of situations with cops because im so unthreatening and jovial about it. i certainly wouldnt have acted like the redneck but i definitely would have been boiling over the way this cop acted

if this cop were family or a friend of mine i would tell him point blank idk what the hell was wrong with you but you were a complete ******** and you should get some counseling cuz youre gonna end up dead

[35Pete]

Meat. I love how he says "Maam. Your husband tried to take charge".

That calls for a pause.

Yeah, he probably will get KIA'd. When he does I'll nominate him for a Darwin Award.

[coryjd]

More and more now, we are seeing cops that are cops because they either suffer from small penis syndrome, or they were beat up when they were kids, so there for have an inferiority complex.

This situation is completely and utterly disgusting, and quite honestly is a disgrace to law enforcement. This civilian was NO THREAT to this cop and was trying to have a conversation. Cops are NOT the law, and no where in the law does it say you have to bend over and take up the ass from the cops. Yes, a court is there for due process, but inquiring to a cop is not against the law. This man (the cop) should be hung by his balls and then shot with a taser himself.

[Green Lantern]

More and more now, we are seeing cops that are cops because they either suffer from small penis syndrome, or they were beat up when they were kids, so there for have an inferiority complex.

This situation is completely and utterly disgusting, and quite honestly is a disgrace to law enforcement. This civilian was NO THREAT to this cop and was trying to have a conversation. Cops are NOT the law, and no where in the law does it say you have to bend over and take up the ass from the cops. Yes, a court is there for due process, but inquiring to a cop is not against the law. This man (the cop) should be hung by his balls and then shot with a taser himself.

He was not arrested or tasered because he asked a question.

[35Pete]

More and more now, we are seeing cops that are cops because they either suffer from small penis syndrome, or they were beat up when they were kids, so there for have an inferiority complex.

This situation is completely and utterly disgusting, and quite honestly is a disgrace to law enforcement. This civilian was NO THREAT to this cop and was trying to have a conversation. Cops are NOT the law, and no where in the law does it say you have to bend over and take up the ass from the cops. Yes, a court is there for due process, but inquiring to a cop is not against the law. This man (the cop) should be hung by his balls and then shot with a taser himself.

Tough choice of best post in the thread. This one is fantastic. So is Meat's though.

[micknaboz]

In this world, if a man pulls a weapon on you and you turn your back on them, you get what you deserve.

On a motorcycle you must be aware for yourself and be aware for those in cars because often they do not see you. You can just obey the law, get hit, and die...and be right. But you are still dead. That may not be fair or right or just but it IS.



We're not talking about " a man" pulling a weapon, we're talking about a cop. Obviously you either are too thick to understand the difference, or are just playing games here.

If I get pulled over by a cop, who by the way is a paid employee of the taxpayer, I expect to be treated reasonably and not be shot if I should happen to turn my back on him. But hey that may just be me. I also don't believe in stolen elections, warrantless searches, being lied to about reasons for going to war, war profiteering, in outing CIA agents, or in torture.

[coryjd]

He was not arrested or tasered because he asked a question.

I see nothing warranting a taser at all. The point at which the cop told him to turn around was bad enough. There was no reason for the cop to start barking orders at him. So now, you're telling me that because a cop tells you to turn around and put your hands behind your back, that you need to??? Is this really what law enforcement has been degraded to???? If so, get me the **** out of this country.

[35Pete]

He was not arrested or tasered because he asked a question.

Did you read Meat's latest opinion on this? Can't you just admit that you have a different opinion after seeing all sides and more careful evaluation of the facts?

The cop escalated the situation. 72% here I'll believe will treat the police with respect but don't want to be treated like shit by the police. With respect. Respect given, respect received.

Otherwise someday you'll see message boards with high fiving when one gets shot.

Let's you and I pray that day never comes. But it's not in our hands. It's in theirs.

And law enforcement. Spare me the paramilitary special forces warfare uniform SWAT crap. You look like a bunch of penis insecure goons. You didn't need it in the 70's and a good part of the 80's. Why now? Bad guys have mortars?

[Green Lantern]

We're not talking about " a man" pulling a weapon, we're talking about a cop. Obviously you either are too thick to understand the difference, or are just playing games here.

If I get pulled over by a cop, who by the way is a paid employee of the taxpayer, I expect to be treated reasonably and not be shot if I should happen to turn my back on him. But hey that may just be me. I also don't believe in stolen elections, warrantless searches, being lied to about reasons for going to war, war profiteering, in outing CIA agents, or in torture.

De jure/de facto.

You can have any expectation of how to be treated you like. Reality bit this guy in his expectation.

[35Pete]

We're not talking about " a man" pulling a weapon, we're talking about a cop. Obviously you either are too thick to understand the difference, or are just playing games here.

If I get pulled over by a cop, who by the way is a paid employee of the taxpayer, I expect to be treated reasonably and not be shot if I should happen to turn my back on him. But hey that may just be me. I also don't believe in stolen elections, warrantless searches, being lied to about reasons for going to war, war profiteering, in outing CIA agents, or in torture.

Goddamn. Every once in a while a Ranger gets on a roll on a particular night. This night is yours bro.

[35Pete]

De jure/de facto.

You can have any expectation of how to be treated you like. Reality bit this guy in his expectation.

That's plain dumb. Is that what you are boiling down to? "That's the way it is"?

Is that in the same school of thought as "Politics is the art of what is possible"?

[coryjd]

De jure/de facto.

You can have any expectation of how to be treated you like. Reality bit this guy in his expectation.

Like I said, if THIS is reality, this ****ing country can go **** itself. If this is YOUR perception of reality my friend, then you live in a ****ed up world.

[35Pete]

Like I said, if THIS is reality, this ****ing country can go **** itself. If this is YOUR perception of reality my friend, then you live in a ****ed up world.

I think the only thing that is going to stop this crap from intensifying is another 60's era of activism.

Only this time it won't be the left-wing beatniks taking to the streets. It will be a cross-spectrum civil revolt. liberals, true conservatives, independants, libertarians. But the neocons will be demanding that the National Guard shoot us.

[Green Lantern]

I see nothing warranting a taser at all. The point at which the cop told him to turn around was bad enough. There was no reason for the cop to start barking orders at him. So now, you're telling me that because a cop tells you to turn around and put your hands behind your back, that you need to??? Is this really what law enforcement has been degraded to???? If so, get me the **** out of this country.

I believe that the cop was in the process of placing him under arrest when he asked the man to step out of the vehicle. Step two is to take you to the back of the vehicle, three puts the cuffs on you and four is telling you you are under arrest.

I am telling you that when a cop draws a weapon and points it at you, you might take a better look around and see what your situation is if you were thinking you were not in trouble. As PMoon said, you comply and you dispute it later. If the cop was reckless, he loses his job or is otherwise punished.

[Green Lantern]

Like I said, if THIS is reality, this ****ing country can go **** itself. If this is YOUR perception of reality my friend, then you live in a ****ed up world.

Reality is what happened. It is not my perception.

[Green Lantern]

That's plain dumb. Is that what you are boiling down to? "That's the way it is"?

Is that in the same school of thought as "Politics is the art of what is possible"?

Is that not the way it was? It is plain dumb to claim what happened on the video is what happened?

[35Pete]

Is that not the way it was? It is plain dumb to claim what happened on the video is what happened?

It sounds apathetic. There is no way in hell any reasonable citizen should accept this "as just the way it is".

[Green Lantern]

I see nothing warranting a taser at all. The point at which the cop told him to turn around was bad enough. There was no reason for the cop to start barking orders at him. So now, you're telling me that because a cop tells you to turn around and put your hands behind your back, that you need to??? Is this really what law enforcement has been degraded to???? If so, get me the **** out of this country.

And yes, Coryjd, when a policeman tells you to put your hands behind your back, you are being arrested and you need to comply. Sorry.

[Green Lantern]

It sounds apathetic. There is no way in hell any reasonable citizen should accept this "as just the way it is".

Apathetic?

I did not say it was right or fair or just. It happened. When a policeman points his weapon at you and tells you to turn around and put your hands behind your back, you really ought to.

[coryjd]

I believe that the cop was in the process of placing him under arrest when he asked the man to step out of the vehicle. Step two is to take you to the back of the vehicle, three puts the cuffs on you and four is telling you you are under arrest.

I am telling you that when a cop draws a weapon and points it at you, you might take a better look around and see what your situation is if you were thinking you were not in trouble. As PMoon said, you comply and you dispute it later. If the cop was reckless, he loses his job or is otherwise punished.

That's not the point that's being argued here though, man. The points are:

1. What exactly was the reason for placing this man under arrest? Because he didn't agree with his ticket?????

2. So cops can call anybody they want out of their vehicles because they won't sign the ticket. That's a freakin' stupid state law then, and should be changed. You don't sign anything in NY.

3. And if you WANT to be technical about this, the cop pulled over and let this guy by him, way BEFORE the 40 MPH sign, and then pulled him over. I don't know about UTAH laws, but in NY, you don't have to slow down UNTIL the sign. What was this cop's reason for pulling him over then. THAT'S what Mr. Massey was arguing, and he had a valid point. There was no reason to call this man out of his vehicle, or put a taser in his back.

[coryjd]

And yes, Coryjd, when a policeman tells you to put your hands behind your back, you are being arrested and you need to comply. Sorry.

Unfortunately, that is true. But that is not the point here. It should have not have even escalated to this point.

The cop should not have a job anymore. :nono:

[micknaboz]

I think the only thing that is going to stop this crap from intensifying is another 60's era of activism.

Only this time it won't be the left-wing beatniks taking to the streets. It will be a cross-spectrum civil revolt. liberals, true conservatives, independants, libertarians. But the neocons will be demanding that the National Guard shoot us.

Never happen Pete. Cheney learned his lessons from the Nixon era well. First they control the press, then they pass all their Patriot Act laws to spy on the opposition, and with their added police state powers and their own private wingnut army in Blackwater they can simply imprison anyone they want.

The real revolt would probably be for economic reasons anyways, which may yet come to pass in the coming years.

[coryjd]

Apathetic?

I did not say it was right or fair or just. It happened. When a policeman points his weapon at you and tells you to turn around and put your hands behind your back, you really ought to.

But that right there is bullshit, that is not how this country should be run, or what the purpose of laws are.

[Green Lantern]

That's not the point that's being argued here though, man. The points are:

1. What exactly was the reason for placing this man under arrest? Because he didn't agree with his ticket?????.

Because he did not sign the ticket. Pete researched and found out that the law in Utah supports the officer's actions.


2. So cops can call anybody they want out of their vehicles because they won't sign the ticket. That's a freakin' stupid state law then, and should be changed. You don't sign anything in NY. . In Utah, yes. I guess it is a good thing you do not live in Utah.


3. And if you WANT to be technical about this, the cop pulled over and let this guy by him, way BEFORE the 40 MPH sign, and then pulled him over. I don't know about UTAH laws, but in NY, you don't have to slow down UNTIL the sign. What was this cop's reason for pulling him over then. THAT'S what Mr. Massey was arguing, and he had a valid point. There was no reason to call this man out of his vehicle, or put a taser in his back.

The first bit of the video, only one time when I watched it, shows that he pulls out onto the road from in front of the sign and then pulls over the guy at the next sign.

[Green Lantern]

Unfortunately, that is true. But that is not the point here. It should have not have even escalated to this point.

The cop should not have a job anymore. :nono:

Absolutely.

[Green Lantern]

But that right there is bullshit, that is not how this country should be run, or what the purpose of laws are.

Again with the 'should'.

You are in the middle of the desert on a highway and a cop draws his weapon on you, "should" is not a part of your reality at this moment.

[coryjd]

I guess, reality bites for Mr. Massey, but he's gonna have a huge settlement check at the end of this 'reality ride.' :n4clapping:

[Green Lantern]

Maybe so.

[Green Lantern]

According to Pete's "amnesty USA" link, which has interviews with cops who are hit with 5 second's of a partial charge from a taser, Mr. Massey will not turn his back on a taser again. They say they would do anything to avoid that amount of pain.

[35Pete]

Never happen Pete. Cheney learned his lessons from the Nixon era well. First they control the press, then they pass all their Patriot Act laws to spy on the opposition, and with their added police state powers and their own private wingnut army in Blackwater they can simply imprison anyone they want.

The real revolt would probably be for economic reasons anyways, which may yet come to pass in the coming years.

Jesus you get it.

Mik. Careful buddy. People will be calling you a tin hatter before long.

Don't upset anyone's comfort zone now. There's football to watch.

[Green Lantern]

The plan is working well. We all just love Bush because of the positive media attention.

[35Pete]

The plan is working well. We all just love Bush because of the positive media attention.

Can you only see the simplest of schemes?

How about "There gonna hate the guy, but let's distract them from the really shitty stuff, and where we can just not report it. We can't paint him as a saint, but we can make it so that they don't take to the streets".

[Green Lantern]

Can you only see the simplest of schemes?

How about "There gonna hate the guy, but let's distract them from the really shitty stuff, and where we can just not report it. We can't paint him as a saint, but we can make it so that they don't take to the streets".

You're too clever for me. You must be the offspring of Decartes' evil genius.

[35Pete]

You're too clever for me. You must be the offspring of Decartes' evil genius.

Aqua. Watch Manfacturing Consent. Here is the link.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4253390660425568933&q=noam+chomsky+manufacturing+consent&total=84&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

[anEinherjer]

Pump your chest out and say "You can't push ME around, pig".

In a free society, no, you can't push people around just because you're a cop. This is nonsense. The funny part is, when you boil it down, noone is suggesting that the guy was smart in turning his back on the cop walking back to the car when the cop finally pulled the trigger. The ****ing problem is the cop letting the situation get to that point. The "reality" of the situation at the moment the trigger got pulled doesn't matter and isn't the point - the point is that cops let shit get to that point more and more as days go by.

The abuse suffered by this dude is absolutely unjustified unless you're one of those "tough on crime" dopes. Or aqua who's defending the cop like a moron. Nope, nothing to see here aqua, might as well just brush it under your rug as per usual.

[FamousAmos]

the range needs spellcheck

download firefox's web browser

[FamousAmos]

the cop was wrong. so was the civilian. Both should be drop kicked in the throat for being idiots.

What the hell was the cop doing by escalating the situation? who knows.

but the civilian did antagonize the cop. I think the civilian was trying to piss off the cop.

I thought i looked a little fake or staged to me.

Hopefully this is an isolated event!

By the way, no need for calling cops "pigs." you'll chnage your tune when one of em saves your life.

[Meathead]

pete would you stop quoting the poll percentages. it sounds like youre trying to make the 'most people' argument which is worthless. i dont care if 99.9% of people vote one way its not a compelling argument at all. one either has the case or not and if that one can prove it that makes the other 99 punk ass bitches. buying into the most people argument is what gets us into cluster ***ks like iraq

if i could vote again on THIS QUESTION i would say yes he should have got tasered. but thats really just a technicality based on the situation the cop created. the proper question would have been who is responsible for the tasering and that CLEARLY is the jackass cop who created the entire situation. it just didnt need to happen this way and its the cops fault that it did. he should be fired for this

its like asking should clinton be punished for lying about a bj. well yeah sure but what about everything that happened before that, was that proper? should he have even ever been put in that situation? of course not

this was so bad that at first i thought it was a prank. i figured somebody made the video to make a point. but when i saw the woman freak out i figured that would be tough for even a professional actor so it was probably real

it reminds me of south park where uncle jimbo and ned go hunting and they cant just shoot the animals for legal reasons so they have to create personal danger by yelling 'hes coming right at us!' before shooting. oh the speeders being belligerent and not taking my ass reaming meekly - oh im in danger guess i have no choice but to pump fitty thou volts in his ass awroit i love dis jerb

what a douche

[Meathead]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ac/Jimbosp.jpg/200px-Jimbosp.jpg

[35Pete]

pete would you stop quoting the poll percentages. it sounds like youre trying to make the 'most people' argument which is worthless. i dont care if 99.9% of people vote one way its not a compelling argument at all. one either has the case or not and if that one can prove it that makes the other 99 punk ass bitches. buying into the most people argument is what gets us into cluster ***ks like iraq

if i could vote again on THIS QUESTION i would say yes he should have got tasered. but thats really just a technicality based on the situation the cop created. the proper question would have been who is responsible for the tasering and that CLEARLY is the jackass cop who created the entire situation. it just didnt need to happen this way and its the cops fault that it did. he should be fired for this

its like asking should clinton be punished for lying about a bj. well yeah sure but what about everything that happened before that, was that proper? should he have even ever been put in that situation? of course not

this was so bad that at first i thought it was a prank. i figured somebody made the video to make a point. but when i saw the woman freak out i figured that would be tough for even a professional actor so it was probably real

it reminds me of south park where uncle jimbo and ned go hunting and they cant just shoot the animals for legal reasons so they have to create personal danger by yelling 'hes coming right at us!' before shooting. oh the speeders being belligerent and not taking my ass reaming meekly - oh im in danger guess i have no choice but to pump fitty thou volts in his ass awroit i love dis jerb

what a douche
No no no..I am not appealing to popularity. I am postulating as to why the polls are the way they are. 50 people can believe one thing and one person believe other and that one person can be right. What I think the poll points out is a growing awareness of police abuse and/or an intolerance for it. So there is still hope. Unless of course people are willing to bitch and do nothing more.

[35Pete]

In a free society, no, you can't push people around just because you're a cop. This is nonsense. The funny part is, when you boil it down, noone is suggesting that the guy was smart in turning his back on the cop walking back to the car when the cop finally pulled the trigger. The ****ing problem is the cop letting the situation get to that point. The "reality" of the situation at the moment the trigger got pulled doesn't matter and isn't the point - the point is that cops let shit get to that point more and more as days go by.

The abuse suffered by this dude is absolutely unjustified unless you're one of those "tough on crime" dopes. Or aqua who's defending the cop like a moron. Nope, nothing to see here aqua, might as well just brush it under your rug as per usual.

That's an issue anEin. I have to wonder how many of the 6 that voted are "strict law and order dopes" that really do believe that you lick that officers boots if he asks you to. And if you don't then you don't respect the law and he's got every right to kick the shit out of you.

[SabresFan220]

Cops are often completely ridiculous, when my older brother was a minor local police constantly harassed him. He might not have been a total goodie two shoes, but he wasn't a bad kid, our neighbors just didn't like him. Thanks to rumors they spread about him cops were always watching our house. Apparently they had nothing better to do than sit at the end of our street and in the alley behind our house watching all his friends come and go. Yeah, I'm sure its a crime to have a lot of friends right?

The worst thing was a planned "sting" they pulled one weekend when our parents were out of town. My brother was trusted to have the house to himself while the rest of us were staying at our grandparents'. They illegally entered our house to search for drugs thanks to the rumors our neighbors spread (which they found nothing) without a warrant and tore the place apart. Our parents easily could have sued and I don't know why they never bothered. I won't soon forget coming home to a wreck, all my things carelessly thrown around in my own bedroom. That really destroyed my trust of police for quite some time.

[Buffal0B1LLs_fan]

I remember as a kid I was caught in a speed trap. I was late teen-early twenty or something. I was arrested, and put in jail.

It was in Angola, NY on my way to our summer place on the Lake. It was a trap, and there was a line of cars waiting to get their tickets. It was a summer evening, and I decided to wait it out outside the vehicle.

Cop Redneck decides I should not wait outside the car, and I explain to Cop Redneck I didn't think there was a law for standing next to a vehicle.

Cop Redneck then looses it, and I am now on my way to the holding cell.

Now, while I totally hold to this day the idea that Cop Redneck was out of line, I was a young cocky a-hole, and I should have/ and deserved to go to jail. Nobody was hurt, and still wish I had the moment back.

Some people have to be cops. We need them. It so happens that the sort of people who apply for those positions, may have some control issues. The point is: you have to pick your battles. This guy has a wife and kid, and he decides to act like a dick because of a speeding ticket?

Sign the ticket, move on. Cops are what they are. The camera in the cruiser is a testament to the law enforcement entity that they mean well.

Again, pick your battles.

[mikgaes]

Holy sh!t. That guy should hunt that cop down at his house at beat the ever-living sh!t out of him in front of his family until he begged for me to let him keep breathing.

These video cameras must be locked so the cops can't tamper with them. Which, hopefully, put an end to this kind of resistance.

If that cop thought he was in a threatening situation (which he clearly was not) the very first thing he should have done was radio for back-up, not reach for a weapon.

POS

[35Pete]

Cops are often completely ridiculous, when my older brother was a minor local police constantly harassed him. He might not have been a total goodie two shoes, but he wasn't a bad kid, our neighbors just didn't like him. Thanks to rumors they spread about him cops were always watching our house. Apparently they had nothing better to do than sit at the end of our street and in the alley behind our house watching all his friends come and go. Yeah, I'm sure its a crime to have a lot of friends right?

The worst thing was a planned "sting" they pulled one weekend when our parents were out of town. My brother was trusted to have the house to himself while the rest of us were staying at our grandparents'. They illegally entered our house to search for drugs thanks to the rumors our neighbors spread (which they found nothing) without a warrant and tore the place apart. Our parents easily could have sued and I don't know why they never bothered. I won't soon forget coming home to a wreck, all my things carelessly thrown around in my own bedroom. That really destroyed my trust of police for quite some time.

Uphold the law my ass. Apparently they thought that illegal search and seizure applies to "civilians" only (God, I hate that word, how about CITIZENS?) but police are exempt from the 4th amendment? In other words, you can't search your buddy's house on a whim but they can.

[35Pete]

I remember as a kid I was caught in a speed trap. I was late teen-early twenty or something. I was arrested, and put in jail.

It was in Angola, NY on my way to our summer place on the Lake. It was a trap, and there was a line of cars waiting to get their tickets. It was a summer evening, and I decided to wait it out outside the vehicle.

Cop Redneck decides I should not wait outside the car, and I explain to Cop Redneck I didn't think there was a law for standing next to a vehicle.

Cop Redneck then looses it, and I am now on my way to the holding cell.

Now, while I totally hold to this day the idea that Cop Redneck was out of line, I was a young cocky a-hole, and I should have/ and deserved to go to jail. Nobody was hurt, and still wish I had the moment back.

Some people have to be cops. We need them. It so happens that the sort of people who apply for those positions, may have some control issues. The point is: you have to pick your battles. This guy has a wife and kid, and he decides to act like a dick because of a speeding ticket?

Sign the ticket, move on. Cops are what they are. The camera in the cruiser is a testament to the law enforcement entity that they mean well.

Again, pick your battles.
No it's not. The camera wasn't put there to protect the public, I'll tell you that.

[35Pete]

Law is order, and good law is good order.
Aristotle

[35Pete]

The basis of a democratic state is liberty.
Aristotle

[Green Lantern]

Tyranny is a state that needs law enforcement because the people do not follow laws willingly.

-Pericles

[Lucidvizion]

Funny how these women who both couldn't weigh more than a buck twenty can smile and laugh after getting tased.

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<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RO80Ln-wikg&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RO80Ln-wikg&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

By the way, are we still arguing if this guy should have been tased or has the argument shifted to "should the officer have allowed the situation to escalate as it did?"

In regards to the tasing, the cop made a tactical decision that only looks bad in hindsight. You don't know what the guy is doing with his hand near his pocket (I keep a knife clipped to that point of my pants, personally) or know if he was walking to his truck to obtain a weapon. Turns out that the guy was just truly a moron and not just playing stupid. Whoops. If those women in those videos can handle being tased I'm sure a two-hundred something pound guy can.

I think both parties are at fault when it comes to the escalation of the situation, but the cop is the one who's supposed to be the professional. The cop's fuse was blown. I don't think he should get fired over it (nobody was injured or suffering any legal consequences) but he should be reprimanded by his department.

[35Pete]

Funny how these women who both couldn't weigh more than a buck twenty can smile and laugh after getting tased.

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<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RO80Ln-wikg&rel=1"></param>&l