Yankees in talks with Twins for Johan Santana

[Sabres244]

NEW YORK -- The New York Yankees and Minnesota Twins have started trade talks involving Johan Santana.

Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Monday that discussions are ongoing but it was too early to tell whether they would lead to a deal. He did not detail how far talks had progressed.

"I don't want to get into that at this point, as far as what they want, what we're willing to give and all that," he said. "It's preliminary right now."


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3129086

[Sabres244]

Chamberlain,Hughes or Kennedy better not be involved. I like Santana but I like these 3 more.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

I'm prepared to give them Cano (reluctantly), Cabrera and two highly touted minor league pitchers for Santana.

[SabresFan220]

It's tough to say if getting Santana would benefit the Yanks enough if they had to give up on players like Cano and Cabrera.

[Sabres244]

It's tough to say if getting Santana would benefit the Yanks enough if they had to give up on players like Cano and Cabrera.

They have the bats.

They need a real ACE.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Santana is definitely the best left-handed starting pitcher in baseball. Others think he's the best, period, even ahead of Beckett.

He'd absolutely be worth an All-Star second baseman, a young outfielder and prospects. Santana is a legit ace, which the Yankees haven't had in a while.

[slowpokemcgee]

I have to say I'd be extremely disapointed if Cano was traded. He's easily my favorite Yankee and not even Santana is worth his departure for me.

[smashingt2312]

I would give them hughes, melky, and some prospect for him.

Gotta keep chamberlain, cano, kennedy.

[Orange Nation]

Chamberlain,Hughes or Kennedy better not be involved. I like Santana but I like these 3 more.

You would have to give up at least one of those 3. Just like the Red Sox would have to be prepared to give up either Buchholz, Ellsbury, or Lester to bring Santana to Boston.

[slowpokemcgee]

Hughes will be better than Santana in 3 years so he better not be going anywhere either.

[Sabres244]

You would have to give up at least one of those 3. Just like the Red Sox would have to be prepared to give up either Buchholz, Ellsbury, or Lester to bring Santana to Boston.

Then forget it...

[Merk]

Chamberlain,Hughes or Kennedy better not be involved. I like Santana but I like these 3 more.



I dont see it going down w/out at least Hughes or Kennedy involved, Joba is off limits to everyone from my understanding


The only way I can see it happening w/out one of those 2 is if Cano is involved but I'm not sure how we will replace Cano if we trade him so I'm not a big fan of that


I think Melky is def gone in this trade b/c we have Jackson, Gardner, and Tabata all down on the farm and a guy like Rowland is still available in FA'cy


So I think it looks somethiong like this

Hughes/Kennedy, Melky, another Prospect

For

Santana


The hagling must be over the final player in the deal. The Twins are prob saying were giving you Johan Freaking Santana so we are going to want 3 A prospects back

and the Yankees are prob saying we'll give you 2 A prospects and a B b/c we have to give him upwards of 25 mil a year


If I'm the Yankees I move as quickly as possible on this to keep the RS out who I dont think are really in it for anything else than to drive up the price. I really dont look at the Mets as a threat b/c there Farm sucks. Pelfery and Lastings have shown to be gravely overated and thats not going to help the perception of the rest of there farm

[BF_in_Indiana]

The Yankees trying to rob another small market team? What a shock!

[Sabres244]

The Yankees trying to rob another small market team? What a shock!

rob them? They'll be giving up a shitload

Santana wants out of Minnesota. They know they can't sign him long term.

[BF_in_Indiana]

I doubt they give up a "shitload" for him. Prospects don't always pan out where as in Johan you have a proven ace. Sounds pretty one sided to me.

[Sabres244]

I doubt they give up a "shitload" for him. Prospects don't always pan out where as in Johan you have a proven ace. Sounds pretty one sided to me.

There haven't even been names thrown out there. How can you call it one sided, you're a tool.

[jaymitch84]

The Yankees trying to rob another small market team? What a shock!

Remind me again...is St. Louis considered a small-market team?

(Stop crying about the "robbing" of small-market teams when you don't even root for one. Robbing is in quotes on purpose, because giving up high levels of talent is a pretty significant price to pay.)

[BF_in_Indiana]

I root for a mid market team. Our payroll is roughly 95 million. The Red Sox payroll is what? 140? The Yankees? Over 200? The Twins? What maybe 50?

Salary cap...........it's needed.

[BF_in_Indiana]

There haven't even been names thrown out there. How can you call it one sided, you're a tool.

They could give them 5 prospects and I'd consider it one sided. Unless the Twins get back a proven quality player or two then yes it's one sided. Prospects are crap shoots. They don't always pan out. Santana is one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball. So yeah some prospects for Johan is one sided.

[ddpderek]

I trade Hughes, Melky, and a couple minor leaguers for Santana. IMO Cano is a hands off as hes a great all around 2nd baseman which is not easy to find.

If we trade Melky I hope to bring in Rowand and try to ship out Damon for young guys or some utility player or some sei decent bull pen guy. Wish we could dump Farnsworth to which I think we wil at the winter meetings.

Hope Andy comes back.

[M76]

kennedy hughes and milky it will take maybe more twins are getting a new stadium they should just resign the dude.. i dont care how much money it costs this will cost a shit load in fan loyalty and perception

[smashingt2312]

The twins dont resign stars, might as well get something for santana.

[Merk]

The Yankees trying to rob another small market team? What a shock!



Last time I checked it takes 2 teams to make a trade

The Yankees are not holding a gun to the Twins head and saying "you have to trade us Santana and this is what your getting back"

If they dont want to trade us Santana then they dont have to period.

[buffjills]

They could give them 5 prospects and I'd consider it one sided. Unless the Twins get back a proven quality player or two then yes it's one sided. Prospects are crap shoots. They don't always pan out. Santana is one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball. So yeah some prospects for Johan is one sided.

The Twins already know they can't resign Johan after he basically laughed at their 4yr $80 mill offer so they're only giving up 1 yr of his services for (at least) some top quality prospects. Plus, they have another lefty ace in the wings in Liriano.

[bcw]

Is Liriano coming back healthy next year?

I love the way Twins run their franchise and hope they milk whatever team wants Santana. In the end they need to get rid of him, but i hope another team steps up to compete with the Yankees to push up the price.

[buffjills]

Last I saw, he'll be ready for spring training. They already have the Red Sux involved and that should be enough to put the price through the roof.

[Orange Nation]

Are the Sox the frontrunners?

The Red Sox may be the frontrunners for Minnesota ace Johan Santana, according to Charlie Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer Press: "The Twins would receive four players for the Twins' two-time Cy Young Award winner, including center fielder Coco Crisp, 28. Others would be shortstop prospect Jed Lowry, 23; left-handed pitcher Jon Lester, 23; and right-handed pitcher Justin Masterson, 22. Before a deal could be made, the Red Sox would have to have time to negotiate a contract extension with Santana, 28, who can become a free agent after next season and could have a market value as high as $150 million over six years." ...

[BF_in_Indiana]

The Red Sox deal is ridiculous. Coco Crisp? Who wants that slug?

Someone said in the shoutbox that the Mets were talking about Reyes for Johan? Now that would be a quality trade.

[Orange Nation]

Coco Crisp? Who wants that slug?

Coco has excellent range. He was Top 5 defensively by many defensive metrics, while Melky was bottom 10. The benefit of much better range pays more dividends than the benefit of a much better arm over a season. And let's be honest here, Melky will make the min for exactly one more year. After that he's in his arb years so the money side of it diminishes significantly. Also, the Twins do have a good looking CF prospect, Pridie, who's about 2 years away. Coco fills the gap at a modest price and provides them the tools that fit the organizational philosophy better than Cabrera. The Twins value defense pretty high, and Coco rates well. Melky doesn't.

[Merk]

Everything I've read said the Twins want nothing to do w/ Coco so I have a hard time believing that report

[Merk]

Coco has excellent range. He was Top 5 defensively by many defensive metrics, while Melky was bottom 10. The benefit of much better range pays more dividends than the benefit of a much better arm over a season. And let's be honest here, Melky will make the min for exactly one more year. After that he's in his arb years so the money side of it diminishes significantly. Also, the Twins do have a good looking CF prospect, Pridie, who's about 2 years away. Coco fills the gap at a modest price and provides them the tools that fit the organizational philosophy better than Cabrera. The Twins value defense pretty high, and Coco rates well. Melky doesn't.



Tell that to runners on the bases when there deciding on whether or not to go to 2nd to third or third to home


Crisp has a Damon like Arm and will get run on all day. Melky has a cannon that runners wont go on

[Orange Nation]

Everything I've read said the Twins want nothing to do w/ Coco so I have a hard time believing that report

Actually, they are very high on Coco, and with the CF they got in the TB trade, he would provide a stop gap. As I said, the Twins value Defense and Coco gives you that.

[Orange Nation]

Yank's Can't Let Sox Get Santana (http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spwally1129,0,5104068.column)

No matter how many home runs Alex Rodriguez hits, no matter how many hitters Chamberlain freezes, no matter how many great years Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada have left in them and no matter how much further Robby Cano, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy develop, the Yankees will never overcome a team on which Josh Beckett is the No. 2 starter.

Indications are the Yankees are thinking along the same lines. An organizational source told me yesterday they would now consider parting not just with Kennedy or Hughes, but Kennedy and Hughes plus Cabrera, if that's what it takes. In that case, the Yankees would pursue Rowand to replace him in center.

"With Hank in charge, the feeling is we've got to win now," the source said. "We've got to show our fans we're not waiting around, that we're committed to winning right away."

Kennedy AND Hughes AND Cabrera...lol

[Merk]

Actually, they are very high on Coco, and with the CF they got in the TB trade, he would provide a stop gap. As I said, the Twins value Defense and Coco gives you that.



How on earth does he provide a stop gap? He can't hit and he makes almost 5 mil in 08 6 mil in 09 and 8 mil in 2010.


The Twins are not looking to pay that type of $$$ for Coco Crisp to be a stop gap w/ there salary limitations. You can find fielders w/ great range for far less $$$


This comes down to who's going to blink first and give up the 2nd A level major league ready prospect. If the Red Sox subsitute Ellsbury for Crisp he'll be in Boston tomorrow. If the Yankees make it 2 of the three Pitchers or add Cano he'll be in NY by tomorrow

[BF_in_Indiana]

"We've got to show our fans we want to win now." Isn't a 200 million dollar payroll an indication that you want to win EVERY YEAR?

[phishhead220]

Coco's defense has been gold glove caliber over the last two seasons, which perfectly replaces Hunter. His bat definitely doesn't, but maybe he'd do better in Minnesota with less pressure. He had a few good stretches of hitting last season, but his consistency was pretty poor.

I don't really like him anymore with the Sox, but apparently a lot of teams including Washington and Minnesota really want him.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Sports Illustrated's Jon Heyman had a solid baseball hotstove segment on Mike and the Mad Dog earlier, and he said it comes down to Jacoby Ellsbury and Phil Hughes. Whichever side blinks first and offers that player in its package will land Santana. If the Red Sox call the Twins and include Ellsbury in their package, Santana is theirs. If the Yankees tell Minnesota that Hughes is coming, then Santana will be New York bound.

As good as Santana is, I'd hate to give up Hughes. But the Yanks might not have a choice; they simply cannot allow Boston to have the two best pitchers in baseball. In the end, I think it'll be the Yankees who land Johan.

[Orange Nation]

They HAVE to part with either Joba or Hughes. Anything other than that is a tremendous disappointment.

Thing is I think the Sox have the better offer if the Yanks insist on not including those two.

[Orange Nation]

Sports Illustrated's Jon Heyman had a solid baseball hotstove segment on Mike and the Mad Dog earlier, and he said it comes down to Jacoby Ellsbury and Phil Hughes. Whichever side blinks first and offers that player in its package will land Santana. If the Red Sox call the Twins and include Ellsbury in their package, Santana is theirs. If the Yankees tell Minnesota that Hughes is coming, then Santana will be New York bound.

As good as Santana is, I'd hate to give up Hughes. But the Yanks might not have a choice; they simply cannot allow Boston to have the two best pitchers in baseball. In the end, I think it'll be the Yankees who land Johan.

I read his piece on SI.Com. McCutchen, Whelan, and Gardner haven't been mentioned at all. Curious as to why Heyman brings them up here.

I'd agree with his thought process if the Yanks were offering Hughes. They're not.

If I were Brian Cashman, I would have a hard time dealing away Phillip Hughes, Kennedy, Melky and a prospect, simply because you have to expect Joba and Hughes to be mainstays in your rotation for as long as you would have Santana for anyways, and much much cheaper. Trading away cheap pitching talent to sign a pitcher to what will almost certainly be the biggest contract a pitcher has ever inked isn't exactly a Cashman kind of move.

They don't have the position prospects to make it worth it for them and for the Twins...

I still think the dark horse in this one is the two LA teams. If one of them loses out on Cabrera and decides they want Santana, they might open and close talks in one night, and come out of it with a new ace.

[SabreNasty2630]

The Red Sox and Twins are discussing the framework of a Johan Santana deal that would have Boston sending four players to Minnesota in return for the two-time Cy Young Award winner, including center fielder Coco Crisp, pitcher Jon Lester and minor-league shortstop Jed Lowrie, the trio that would to anchor the deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3133598

[Orange Nation]

Can we just merge the 2 threads and make a Johan Santana thread..lol

This proposal is the same as the other one but it is Bowden instead of Masterson.

[BigPapi]

Last updated: 11/29, 2:07 p.m.
Are the Sox the frontrunners?

The latest rumor involving the Red Sox and Santana is the juiciest yet. According to a report from Charlie Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer Press (who sources “a little birdie”) on Thursday, the Sox are now the frontrunners to land Santana as part of a trade package that does not include either Jacoby Ellsbury or Clay Buchholz. According to Walters, the Red Sox would receive Santana in exchange for Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, and minor league prospects Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson, both of who rank among Boston’s top young talent. More from Walters: “Before a deal could be made, the Red Sox would have to have time to negotiate a contract extension with Santana, 28, who can become a free agent after next season and could have a market value as high as $150 million over six years." ESPN's Buster Olney wrote on Thursday that the Sox and Twins are working on the framework of a deal that would send Santana to Boston for Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, with Sox minor league pitcher Michael Bowden being the fourth pitcher in the deal. But Olney wrote that "the identity of the fourth player is in flux" in his blog update. The Boston Herald’s Tony Massarotti reported Thursday that, according to an unnamed major league source, the Twins are looking for a package of players in exchange for Santana that includes “a pitcher, a positional player and one or two prospects.” Wednesday’s top rumor regarding Santana and the Sox was that the Twins were demanding Ellsbury as part of any trade package. The Herald's Michael Silverman wrote that "Although no one in the system has been deemed as an 'untouchable', the Red Sox are loathe to part with rookie center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury." The New York Times' Jack Curry reported Wednesday that the Twins have asked for Ellsbury, but that Boston is balking at that. SI.com reported late Tuesday that the Twins have asked the Red Sox for Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester, plus Ellsbury. The Yankees have confirmed the start of trade talks for Santana, Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Monday. The Twins are asking the Yankees for a package of at least three young players that would include one of Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy -- plus center fielder Melky Cabrera, according to SI.com However, on Wednesday the Newark Star Ledger reported that the Yankees have made Chamberlain and second baseman Robinson Cano off limits. ... The Twins have reportedly offered Santana a four-year, $80 million extension, according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. The newspaper also reports that Santana asked for more, and that the two sides could be as much as two years and $40 million apart.

[Merk]

See part of the problem here is nobody really knows what the Yankees have offered yet


I've heard that Hughes was never offered and that the deal was Kennedy, Tabata, and Melky


If they want Hughes instead of Kennedy than the Yanks have to make that deal if they want Hughes added to the deal then I'm afraid we will have to bow out and make a run at D.Haren from Oakland

[Merk]

Merged

[Orange Nation]

FWIW, there is a new episode of Yankees Hot Stove on tonight at 6:30 EST. Guests include Jack Curry and Bob Klapisch. Maybe some new info will come out.

[Orange Nation]

Does anyone else think that there is no way the Yankees allow him to go to Boston. I believe the Yanks would trade all 4 of their guys (Hughes, Kennedy, Cabrera, top prospect) to the Twins to keep him from going to the Red Sox.

I remain steadfast in the opinion that Hank Steinbrenner will blink once again. The thing that Little Stein fears more than not getting Santana is that he will come to the Red Sox. I believe that when the moment of truth arrives....and Minnesota says "Hank, here's what it will take, or Johan goes to Boston" that Little Stein will fold faster than a cheap tent, just like he did with ARod. I think the Yankees will end up giving up far more than these media reports have conjectured.

[Orange Nation]

From MLB site hot stove a few minutes ago:



"The perceived early pole-sitters, the Yankees, also are adjusting their offer to reflect Wednesday night's transaction. Center fielder Melky Cabrera and a young pitcher still remain in the package, but now the Bombers may consider including both Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy to satisfy the Twins' growing need for arms. "

If it's a bidding war, it's working...

I now think Theo is playing chess with the Yankees. IMO, he will make the trade as outlined forcing the Yankees to respond by including Hughes. He wants the Yanks to get into a no win situation of either gutting their farm system or allowing the Sox to get Santana at an acceptable price. The Yankees were trying to get Santana on the cheap in terms of talent, but that will not happen now. The Yanks are more desperate for an ace, and are genetically inclined to over-pay anyway, so the Theo magic here might be to create an illusion of serious interest to ensure that if the Yanks do get him, it really, really costs them. Because sitting out the process and letting the Yanks pay less than they should for Santana would hurt us. Maybe Theo has learned something from all those Boras negotiations. . .

[Orange Nation]

Here's the latest from the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo:

No contract talks have started on Santana
Link By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff November 29, 07 05:39 PM
As of early this evening Johan Santana's agent had not yet begun negotiating with any team in regard to a contract extension for his prized left-handed starter, according to a major league source familiar with the situation.

If he had that would be a sign that a team had agreed to a deal to acquire the coveted lefty and would then try to seal the deal by signing Santana to a long-term extension. This is what makes this deal so hard to put together.

The Red Sox appear to be smack in the middle of the action, according to one major league source. There's a lot of silence coming from Yawkey Way, always an indication there's something big in the works. According to what we've been told by a couple of major league sources is that the Sox would be willing to part with Tony Conigliaro Award winner Jon Lester over Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden over Justin Masterson. The Twins would take Coco Crisp to be their new center-fielder instead of the untouchable Jacoby Ellsbury, but doing that means the Sox would have to kick in another significant prospect. While sources did not confirm who that prosoect was, ESPN reported that it might be shortstop Jed Lowrie.

At this stage the Twins are still trying to sort out who is willing to offer what. The Yankees are still very much in the hunt with their talks centering around Melky Cabrera and Robinson Cano. The Angels appear to have the wherewithal to make a deal quicker than anyone else because of the available young players and an abundance of pitching after they acquired Jon Garland from the White Sox in exchange for former Red Sox shortstop Orlando Cabrera.

[Callaway]

Coco's defense has been gold glove caliber over the last two seasons, which perfectly replaces Hunter. His bat definitely doesn't, but maybe he'd do better in Minnesota with less pressure. He had a few good stretches of hitting last season, but his consistency was pretty poor.

I don't really like him anymore with the Sox, but apparently a lot of teams including Washington and Minnesota really want him.


haha yea right. Coco has an arm the base runners in a white-collar softball league would run on

[phishhead220]

haha yea right. Coco has an arm the base runners in a white-collar softball league would run on

Torrii Hunter had 5 outfield assists last year, Coco had seven...so i don't see anything wrong with my statement that Coco replaces Hunter's defensive abilities.

[Callaway]

Neither Boston nor NY has made an offer that is near acceptable

The Boston offer is utter Joke a 4+ ERA pitcher, an overpaid CF with no arm and who cant hit, and two AA players who ceilings are very debatable. Would love to see there GM try to explain that deal to the Twin Fan Base. I would start a Riot if I where a Twins fan. Plus the Twins have wanted Ellsbury or Buchholz in the trade and now all of a sudden they dont?

New Yorks offer is just as much a Joke. It has to include two pitchers and one of them has to be Hughes. To try and do it with out Hughes is assinine

[Callaway]

Torrii Hunter had 5 outfield assists last year, Coco had seven...so i don't see anything wrong with my statement that Coco replaces Hunter's defensive abilities.


Now Why would Hunter have Less assists? hhhhmmm maybe its b/c he has far less oppurtunties b/c players decided a long time ago not to run on him

[Orange Nation]

The Boston offer is utter Joke a 4+ ERA pitcher, an overpaid CF with no arm and who cant hit, and two AA players who ceilings are very debatable.

You are evidently not familiar with Masterson's stats. Please look them up. Plus, I'd hardly call either Lester or Lowrie "average" prospects - Granted, Lester slipped a bit this year (understandable with Cancer; but watch him with a year of health under his belt), and Lowrie is going to be a better infielder than Pedroia (and I'm not knocking Pedroia in any way). It is a lot to give up.

[Orange Nation]

UPDATE, 11-29-07 at 8pm:

Despite what Jon Heyman said, the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo seems to think the Red Sox are still in the lead for Santana. It would be the package named below by Olney (Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Bowden). Nothing is done yet, as Santana's agent hasn't been approached about an extension. Meanwhile Cafardo indicates that the Yankees may part with Robinson Cano after all.

[Merk]

There have been reports on MLB Radio on XM that the Twins are now leaning towards holding out until the winter meetings to make the deal


cant say I disagree w/ that

There in or should be in no rush to trade him especially now w/ rumors floating that the Angels may abandoned there M.Caberea pursuit and focus in on on Santana


From my understanding they have been offered some good packages of prospects but most of them are based on Quanity and the Twins are more interested in Quality. As in 2 major league ready prospects w/ all star potential w/in a year or two and that is where most of the deals are falling apart

Another thing that might also be holding things up is Santana wants 7 years for 170 and by the sounds of it is not willing to budge much on that number. W/ the innings he has on his arm already and the way he finished last year that may seem like a hard number to take. But w/ his full NTC he can bassically write his own check.

[Merk]

The Red Sox have apparently offered pitcher Jon Lester, center fielder Coco Crisp, the minor league shortstop Jed Lowrie and another minor league pitcher. The Twins have been insistent in trying to snare center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, a player Boston is unwilling to move. The Twins have also told teams they do not want to add much in salary, so the $10.5 million Crisp will earn for the next two seasons is unappealing


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/sports/baseball/30santana.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin


If the deal gets done w/ Crisp the Red Sox will have to end up eating about 75% of whats left on his deal

[Merk]

So the Yankee offer according to most reports is

Kennedy, Melky, and Horne/Tabata (I'm assuming they'll want Horne b/c he has an Ace ceiling and is not that far off from the majors)

The Twins want to subsitute Hughes for Kennedy not add and the I guess the deal can get done.

The Yanks are I guess trying to figure out a way to keep Hughes out of the deal.


I dont blame the Twins for holding out. Looking at the Yankee deal I would hold out for Hughes and looking at the Red Sox deal Ellsbury has to be in that deal instead of Crisp

[Orange Nation]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3135740

Buster Olney is reporting that the Yankees are leaning toward giving up Hughes. The already heard package of Hughes, Cabrera and Jose Tabata

He also goes on to say that the Yankees and Red Sox are also in discussions with the A's about Haren. He would cost roughly the same package ammount but no extension is needed as he is under contract at 3 years/$16.25 million

[Orange Nation]

Lets just lay this out:

Yankees
Hughes, Cabrera, Jackson/Tabata
6 years / 150 million extention for Santana
Now required to look at Aaron Rowand or Andruw Jones since Damon may not be capable of CF.

Red Sox
Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson/Bowden
cost control of Dan Haren

....I like the Red Sox position more than the Yankees.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Crisp sucks.

[Orange Nation]

That has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

That has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

We're talking about Crisp going to Minnesota, so it does.

Anyway, I'm starting to get cold feet about this whole thing. Giving up Hughes isn't something I am fully willing to endorse at this point.

[phishhead220]

We're talking about Crisp going to Minnesota, so it does.

Anyway, I'm starting to get cold feet about this whole thing. Giving up Hughes isn't something I am fully willing to endorse at this point.

Not that I'm a Yankee fan, but I would think giving up a player like Hughes in the package for Santana is no big deal. Players like Hughes have potential to be good, but its unlikely him much less anyone will be as good as Santana.

[Orange Nation]

FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal says the Twins informed the Yankees they were prepared to deal Johan Santana to the Red Sox unless Phil Hughes was part of the deal.
Whether they were being serious or just improving their negotiating position, the tactic appears to have worked, with the Yankees deciding to offer Hughes in place of Ian Kennedy on Friday afternoon. The two sides haven't agreed upon a third player in addition to Hughes and Melky Cabrera. Austin Jackson, Jose Tabata and Alan Horne look like the candidates, though the Twins could always push for both Hughes and Kennedy. It's expected that the Red Sox would have to improve their offer to include Jacoby Ellsbury or Clay Buchholz if they're going to land Santana.

[Orange Nation]

This is interesting, last line in particular:

The Twins continue to discuss possible deals from other teams, including the Dodgers and Mariners, and they are scheduled to speak with the Red Sox on Saturday afternoon. Boston's offer on the table is for pitcher Jon Lester, center fielder Coco Crisp and minor league infielder Jed Lowrie, and a fourth player -- a minor league pitcher -- is to be determined. The Twins want the Red Sox to add either center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury or pitcher Clay Buchholz to the deal, and there are indications that if they do, that offer is what Minnesota will prefer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3136495

[Orange Nation]

I was listening to the Baseball Show on WFAN with Ed Randall. And they are reporting that Jon Heyman of SI was on the show and he told Randall that the Twins are not as interested in Hughes, and would take the deal with the Red Sox if it includes either Buchholz OR Ellsbury, and they are talking deal.

I can't speak to its reliability, just reporting what i heard on the WFAN in NY

And now this from ESPN on how the Red Sox have possibly upped their offer:

The Twins may have reached the point where they have the best offers they are going to get from the Yankees and Red Sox for pitcher Johan Santana.

With the Yankees' offer now upgraded to include top young pitcher Phil Hughes, the Twins spoke again with the Red Sox late Saturday afternoon, sources say, and Boston generated a few new ideas for its proposed offer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3136495

[Orange Nation]

http://mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/

This site is reporting that Boston is putting Buchholz in the deal.

[Orange Nation]

The Yankees were hoping their decision Friday to include Phil Hughes in a trade package would seal a deal for Johan Santana, but the Twins weren't wowed by the offer. Instead, they let word leak Saturday that they will be perfectly happy to go into next season with Santana in their starting rotation if they don't get what they want.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/02/2007-12-02_twins_not_wowed_by_phil_hughes_package_w.html

The Yankees need to stop letting Hank control the negotiations and let Cashman handle things again, because they are getting bent over right now.

[BigPapi]

"Sources say the Twins are taking a similar stance with the Red Sox, insisting they add either pitcher Clay Buchholz or center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury to a package that features lefthander Jon Lester. "

Honestly I'd give up Buchholz,Lester, Lowrie and Crisp for Santana. Looking at it how can you go wrong with Santana, Beckett and Dice-K as your top 3 all would be locked up through 2011 at least (that's the last year of Bcketts contract) if you have the pieces to do it than do it.

[JWatts]

The New York Daily News reported the Twins were not overly impressed when the Yankees added Phil Hughes to a potential trade package for Johan Santana. The Twins let it be known they will be happy to go into next season with Santana in their starting rotation if they don't get what they want.

Minnesota wants another top-tier prospect from the Yankees, either pitcher Alan Horne or outfielder Austin Jackson, to go along with Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera.


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Twins-seeking-to-rob-from-the-rich?urn=mlb,55851

[BigPapi]

Sources: Red Sox willing to deal Ellsbury or Lester, not both

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088

[Merk]

I think the Twins are now starting to overplay there hand a little bit


I think there underestimating the fact that whatever team trades for him has to give him a 6 year 150 million dollar deal and even though hes arguably the best pitcher in the game that is going to drive his value down

[BigPapi]

Can't fault them for trying to get as much as they can.

[Merk]

Can't fault them for trying to get as much as they can.



You cant


But lets face it w/ that contract demand this is a 2 pony race unless the name J.Reyes starts getting tossed around


The Twins have to be careful b/c if Boston or NY shoots over to Oak and lands Haren you can expect the offer for Santana to go down. I mean if Boston landed Haren tomorrow I would expect the Yankees to immediately pull Hughes off the table.

[MeccaOfManhood]

Sources: Red Sox willing to deal Ellsbury or Lester, not both

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088

Ha the Twins would be idiots to take Lester over Ellsbury. Lester is at best a 3 starter.

[Orange Nation]

Per roto:

Sources told FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal that Johan Santana has informed the Twins he will not waive his no-trade protection to allow an in-season trade.

The one reason the Twins might have kept Santana now is that they felt he'd still bring back a substantial package in July. If they have to be worried about him refusing a trade now, then they'll almost have to accept an offer from either the Yankees or Red Sox.

Safe to say a deal will be done. Probably in the next couple days.

[BigPapi]

Orange, what are your thoughts on the Sox dealing Ellsbury or Buchholz? I figure if it gets the deal done than do it.

[BigPapi]

Yankees set deadline for Twins trade

New York will withdraw offer for Santana on Monday

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/02/santana.talks/index.html

[LiterateStylish]

As you all probably know, the Yankees are in deep with the Twins on trying to get Santana, however the Red Soxs are now to rumored to be including Ellsbury in the deal.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071202&content_id=2315278&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

[Orange Nation]

so the deal is ellsbury, lowrie, masterson OR lester, lowrie, crisp, masterson

[Orange Nation]

Orange, what are your thoughts on the Sox dealing Ellsbury or Buchholz? I figure if it gets the deal done than do it.

It's not everyday you can aquire the best pitcher in the game, but I would not include Ellsbury AND Clay. Those are guys with great futures but a 1-2-3 of Johan, Josh and Matsuzaka will probably ensure us at leats a few more championships for the foreseeable future. I would do that in a heartbeat.

[BigPapi]

Well for Ellsbury Lester Lowrie and Masterson I would do it and keep Clay b/c the Twins want 2 of the 3 with Ellsbury Buchholz and Lester.

[Orange Nation]

Yankees set deadline for Twins trade

New York will withdraw offer for Santana on Monday

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/02/santana.talks/index.html

They said that about A-rod too...and is it just me or is the yankees front office is talking a little too much this offseason. Hank needs to shut up, I think I liked George better.

Yankees vice president Hank Steinbrenner confirmed that he plans to pull his team's offer for Johan Santana on Monday.

Just when it looked like the Yankees might have gotten him muzzled. "I think our offer is the best offer," Steinbrenner said. "We have the best young pitchers in the game, even better than Boston." The Yankees are believed to be offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and a prospect for Santana. Steinbrenner indicated that the third player isn't what's holding up the deal. "That's erroneous," he said. "I don't think that will be the sticking point."

[BigPapi]

The difference with A-Rod is that the market for him was to small and the Sox wanted Lowell so he had to go back. With Santana I think the Sox do want him and are not trying to just drive up the price. If Hank backs out the Sox win. Imagine the rotation even if Lester goes.

1.Santana
2.Beckett
3.Dice-K
4.Schilling
5. Wakefield with Buchholz waiting in the wings.

[BF_in_Indiana]

Gotta love a sport where only two teams can financially afford to get involved in deals like this.

[BigPapi]

Well the Angels Dodgers and Mets don't care about the money they just don't have the young talent the Twins want talk about money as it does play a part but the Sox and Yanks have built up thier farm systems though the draft over the past few years.

[smashingt2312]

The twins are just asking way too much, i mean as a yanks fan do i really want santana? absolutely but the twins want too much.

[BigPapi]

As far as I've seen they are asking for 3 players cabrera hughes and I believe a top tier minor leaguer. How many times can you get a 2 time Cy Young award winner that's 28 still in his prime and the best lefty if not the overall best pitcher in baseball? Last time a pitcher of this caliber at thatage was traded it was some guy named Pedro that went to the Red Sox for a top tier prospect named Pavano. If the Sox can get Santana and keep Buchholz in the end even though they'll lose Ellsbury and Lester I say do it no questions then they'll have Santana, Beckett, Dice-K and Buchholz locked up through 2011 (when Becketts final contract year is) and if Beckett leaves they will still have the other 3 for another 2 years at least.

[Orange Nation]

Call me crazy but I think Theo gets this done at the meetings. The writing is on the wall because multiple sources have said that Smith values Ellsbury over Clay and Hughes and now Ellsbury is on the table. So I think the only thing holding this deal up is Lester and right now Theo is giving the Yanks a chance to counter offer by sticking in Horne or Jackson. So I don't think Theo is going to let Lester get in the way of acquiring the best pitcher in the league, when there is no spot for Lester with Santana. At the last second of the window the Yankees gave the Twins, Theo is going to offer Lester Ellsbury and Lowrie, and since Smith values Ellsbury so highl, we should be able to get Santana without giving up Clay.

[Merk]

Well the Angels Dodgers and Mets don't care about the money they just don't have the young talent the Twins want talk about money as it does play a part but the Sox and Yanks have built up thier farm systems though the draft over the past few years.



Both the Angels and the Dodgers have more than enough talent to get it done. Both there systems are better than the Red Sox and Yankees.

They just dont want to pay the contract

[phishhead220]

Call me crazy but I think Theo gets this done at the meetings. The writing is on the wall because multiple sources have said that Smith values Ellsbury over Clay and Hughes and now Ellsbury is on the table. So I think the only thing holding this deal up is Lester and right now Theo is giving the Yanks a chance to counter offer by sticking in Horne or Jackson. So I don't think Theo is going to let Lester get in the way of acquiring the best pitcher in the league, when there is no spot for Lester with Santana. At the last second of the window the Yankees gave the Twins, Theo is going to offer Lester Ellsbury and Lowrie, and since Smith values Ellsbury so highl, we should be able to get Santana without giving up Clay.

I'm calling BS on Steinbrenner's window. He said he wouldn't negotiate with A-Rod and did. The man has zero credibility. If I'm the Twins I'm laughing at his deadline. I picture the Twins ignoring the deadline then Steinbrenner calling them up to reconsider a day later.

[unklechucky]

Im hearing a deal is done...anybody know?

[BigPapi]

Both the Angels and the Dodgers have more than enough talent to get it done. Both there systems are better than the Red Sox and Yankees.

They just dont want to pay the contract

Maybe hey just want Cabrera more b/c he's going to cost a petty penny.

[Merk]

Maybe hey just want Cabrera more b/c he's going to cost a petty penny.


I believe he has 2 Arb years left so they dont have to pay him right off the bat


but he will eventually be a 20+ mil player

[Orange Nation]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071203&content_id=2316004&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

Sounds like Minny is in no hurry and might call NY bluff for there deadline.

Hank is really helping his own cause... This guy has his foot in his mouth on a consistant basis... I find him amusing...

So what happens if this deal goes past the dealine undone? If Santana is serious about only Yanks and Sox then the Sox would be the only ones left. Unless NY re-negs on there word again. Which if they do, there FO will be a laughing stock. There word will be nothing to any other organizations.

If that happens that gives Theo a big advantage negotiation wise. Minny will have to take the 4 player deal or take 2 picks when Santana walks.

NY's front office is already a laughing stock from A-Rod but they're in a definate pissing match which isn't good since the other team has the guy you want. I'm thinking he's pretty confident that the Twins feel that they have the best offer which who knows they might but I tend to believe that Sox genuinely want Santana because they know what having him will do for this rotation and that being said even if today comes and goes and Santana is still on the Twins, then I think it will be the same offer required because the Twins know that this is as much about keeping this guy away from the Yanks as it is bettering their own staff and its not like the Twins can't afford him this year there are worse alternatives and over the course of the next year they may just be able to talk Santana into staying (long shot admittedly) especially if they turn around and compete.

[Orange Nation]

From Olney on SportsCenter;

Yankees will not change their offer. Hughes/Cabrera/"Grade-B Prospect"

Yankees haven't spoken to the Twins yet today. Will speak in the next couple of hours.

Could see the Yankees walking away if the Hughes/Cabrera deal isn't good enough.

We'll find out how much they value Hughes, Ellsbury, and Lester.

Mariners aren't part of the conversation.

[Merk]

I dont think anyone thinks theres a deadline


Besides in NY its already been spun as Hanks deadline not the Yankees

[Merk]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071203&content_id=2316004&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

Sounds like Minny is in no hurry and might call NY bluff for there deadline.

Hank is really helping his own cause... This guy has his foot in his mouth on a consistant basis... I find him amusing...

So what happens if this deal goes past the dealine undone? If Santana is serious about only Yanks and Sox then the Sox would be the only ones left. Unless NY re-negs on there word again. Which if they do, there FO will be a laughing stock. There word will be nothing to any other organizations.

If that happens that gives Theo a big advantage negotiation wise. Minny will have to take the 4 player deal or take 2 picks when Santana walks.

NY's front office is already a laughing stock from A-Rod but they're in a definate pissing match which isn't good since the other team has the guy you want. I'm thinking he's pretty confident that the Twins feel that they have the best offer which who knows they might but I tend to believe that Sox genuinely want Santana because they know what having him will do for this rotation and that being said even if today comes and goes and Santana is still on the Twins, then I think it will be the same offer required because the Twins know that this is as much about keeping this guy away from the Yanks as it is bettering their own staff and its not like the Twins can't afford him this year there are worse alternatives and over the course of the next year they may just be able to talk Santana into staying (long shot admittedly) especially if they turn around and compete.



Your making the mistake thinking that other FO execs consider Hal part of the NY FO


Most if not all dont


IMO his comments will have no effect on future deals what so ever


You think Boras or any other agent is going to black list the richest team in Baseball? Nope

You think other teams are not going to want to trade for any of our players b/c this? No again

George has been running his mouth for years and has multiple rings. If teams want to deal w/ the Yankees they will if they dont it wont be b/c Hal likes making the back page

[Merk]

According to one source, Yankees GM Brian Cashman, with whom Beane is friends and frequently speaks, would be first in line to chat with Oakland if the Twins pass on New York's offer of righty starter Phil Hughes, outfielder Melky Cabrera and a prospect for Santana.

The Yankees have reportedly told Minnesota that their proposal is a take-it-or-leave-it deal that would be pulled from the table late Monday, after which Haren would immediately become New York's primary trade target.

"If they don't get Santana, they'll go hard after Haren," said the source. "And they might even give up more [for Haren] just to make sure they get him."

Haren is attractive for a variety of reasons, with his age, contract status and durability tops among them. The 27-year-old righty, whose current deal will pay him an average of about $5.4 million for the next three years, has thrown at least 217 innings in each of the past three seasons.

As such, Beane could find the Yankees willing to sweeten the deal they offered the Twins. Among the prospects Oakland might ask for is shortstop Alberto Gonzalez, a slick fielding 24-year-old who spent much of the 2007 season at Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, batting .247 with a .300 on-base percentage in 106 games

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071203&content_id=2316393&vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak

[Orange Nation]

Roto:

Unlike the Yankees, general manager Theo Epstein said Monday that the Red Sox will not set a deadline for a possible Johan Santana trade.

"I think we've only done that when we thought it was in our best interest," Epstein said. "We don't have current discussions ongoing for which I think that would be in our best interest. We're pretty content with where we are and we don't think anything major is getting held up. There's a natural order of things this winter and we're just going to let it play out. If we think the dynamic changes or our interest changes, we certainly wouldn't hesitate to put a timetable on something or other. But this doesn't apply right now."

[Orange Nation]

About 1 hour before Hank's empty bluff of a deadline expires. He is really making an ass of himself this offseason.

[Orange Nation]

Roto:

While the Twins backed off asking for Ian Kennedy on Monday, they demanded that the Rockies part with both Alan Horne and Austin Jackson along with Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera in a trade for Johan Santana.

The Yankees have been insisting on keeping both prospects off the table. We thought they'd probably end up relenting any offer to include one of them, but sending both to Minnesota would be a truly excessive price to pay. According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, the two teams have continued to talk late into the night. Heyman believes there is "limited hope for a quick deal."

The Twins have reportedly asked for Jacoby Ellsbury, Jon Lester and Jed Lowrie from the Red Sox for Johan Santana.

Apparently, that and Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy are their two ideal scenarios as return packages from Boston and New York. Since it doesn't look like either suitor will cave, this will probably linger on for a while longer.

[Orange Nation]

UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 1:25am: Looks like things with the Red Sox are moving along - the Red Sox have given the Twins Lester's medical records to review.

UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 1:15am: Unconfirmed report from the Boston Globe says the Red Sox were looking at Santana's medical records, which could imply an agreement. Or maybe they just wanted to check out his medical records

[Orange Nation]

With talks between the Yankees and Twins losing steam, the Red Sox have emerged as the favorite to land left-hander Johan Santana.

ESPN.com's Buster Olney reports that the teams continued to talk from late Monday into early Tuesday morning, with the Twins even asking to see medical reports on Red Sox left-hander Jon Lester.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3140645

The Red Sox roared back into the Johan Santana sweepstakes Monday night after the Yankees refused to add right-hander Ian Kennedy to their proposed trade.

"They are in it now," a major-league source said of the Sox.

The Sox remain unwilling to include outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury in the same deal as left-hander Jon Lester, but the Twins might opt for their offer if the Yankees decline to include a third quality prospect with righty Phil Hughes and outfielder Melky Cabrera.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7524642

[Orange Nation]

roto

Yahoo Sports! Tim Brown believes the Red Sox could acquire Johan Santana from the Twins for Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and another minor leaguer.

With Jed Lowrie as the other minor leaguer, that'd be Boston's reported initial trade proposal. We're guessing Jacoby Ellsbury is in the deal as presently constructed and Coco Crisp is out Otherwise, the Twins really, really like Lester. Definitely more than they do Phil Hughes.

The Boston Globe is also saying that indications, mind you, are that it is the recently proposed deal of Lester, Crisp, Lowrie and Masterson. It is not yet confirmed, but a deal is within striking distance

The Yankees FO will have to change their ways if they think their harsh tactic including a laughable deadline for a trade in early december will get them what they want. A perfect Christmas gift for old Hank will be a muzzle.

[Orange Nation]

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/12/04/gal_backpage_1204.jpg

[Merk]

If they want both Horne and Jackson w/ Hughes and Melky the Yankees should walk away.

[jaymitch84]

"If the Red Sox get Santana," said an executive of one NL team that's grateful to be in the other league, "they might be the best team in the history of the frigging universe."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3140668

[Orange Nation]

WEEI reporting deal is done for Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, and Masterson.

[phishhead220]

WEEI reporting deal is done for Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, and Masterson.

Lowrie and Masterson are great prospects, but WEEI is right I'm stoked. There is no bucholz and lester involved.

I love Hank Steinbrenner's deadline, this man is going to provide quality entertainment for a long time.

[Callaway]

If they want both Horne and Jackson w/ Hughes and Melky the Yankees should walk away.


Cant say I disagree with your stance on wanting to keep thoughs players. Still your left with out a tested Ace

[Callaway]

Looks like hes going to Boston even though the Twins are making some late failed attempts to get the Yankees back in. Looks like Hank is sticking to his guns. For the record The Red Sox just robbed the Twins. If I'm a Twins fan I would start a riot the second the deal is official

[Merk]

Cant say I disagree with your stance on wanting to keep thoughs players. Still your left with out a tested Ace


It is what it is at this point


I agree w/ Hanks statment of "paying a Yankee Price has got to stop"


That deal is way over the value of what anyone else was offering


Sticking to our guns lets teams know that we are not going to just give away are farm like years past.


The Twins called Hanks bluff and it looks like they missed calculated b/c like you stated they were still trying to get the Yankees back involved at the 11th hour. Plus if I'm a Twins fan I would be fuming at the deal they got for Santana and at there GM for letting the Yankees leave the bargining table thus leaving the Red Sox as the only team which bassically gave them the upper hand on any deal going down.


At this point I would also leave Haren out also and would look for the Yankees to make some BP moves like adding Fuentes from the Rockies if possible. I'm ready to move foward w/ what we've got. I know Joba's gonna be good, Hughes i think will be good, and the early returns on Kennedy look good.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Thanks for quitting, Minnesota. You take Coco ****ing Crisp instead of Jacoby Ellsbury? This deal is an insult to baseball; the Twins should be contracted for even making it. I'm disgusted.

[Merk]

Angels meeting w/ the Twins today to talk about Santana


The Yankees final offer is as Follows

Hughes/Melky/Marquez (SP)/A.Gonzalaz (SS)



JM is pretty good has a #2 ceiling IMO but is more lkely a good #3

AG has gold glove ability at SS right now, his bat leaves a lot to be desired though

[BF_in_Indiana]

Baseball is great. All the talent ends up on two or three teams. Makes for great excitement. NOT.

[imontoya]

3:28 p.m., from Peter Gammons
• The Twins and Red Sox are getting closer to finalizing a Johan Santana deal. Boston has sweetened its offer by adding a fifth player to the trade proposal -- outfield prospect Ryan Kalish, a ninth-round draft pick in the 2006 out of Red Bank Catholic High School (Shrewsbury, N.J.).

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3140986&name=winter_meetings

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Nice. A ninth-round outfielder. I hope the Twins burn for this.

[jaymitch84]

4:49 from Stark:



• The Twins and Angels continue to talk about a Johan Santana trade. Many of the same players mentioned in the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes -- Howie Kendrick, Brandan Wood, Nick Adenhart, and possibly Jeff Mathis or Reggie Willits -- would be included in a package for Santana.

[Orange Nation]

i doubt the angels would give up 2 of the 3 of: weaver, wood, and adenhart in addition to signing santana to a 6 yr/150 mil extension.

Johan Santana to the Red Sox is all but done. Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Ryan Kalish are the package. More details now.

--Will Carroll, 5:15 p.m.

[phishhead220]

Santana, Beckett, DiceK, Schilling, Wakefield, Bucholz

That potential rotation is nasty, I'm curious now as to what Dan Haren will draw from NY. Having arbitration years might raise his price. There is no good plan B for the Yankees to walk away from talks with the A's.

[phishhead220]

By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff December 4, 07 05:54 PM
Angels GM Tony Reagins just told reporters that there was no truth to Angels being involved in Johan Santana negotiations. Said he never talked to Twins.

interesting

[Merk]

Santana, Beckett, DiceK, Schilling, Wakefield, Bucholz

That potential rotation is nasty, I'm curious now as to what Dan Haren will draw from NY. Having arbitration years might raise his price. There is no good plan B for the Yankees to walk away from talks with the A's.


I dont think the Yankees will get Haren nor do I really care if they do.


BB doesnt like the Yankees to begin w/ so he always tries to rape us in potential trades



I'm ready to move ahead w/ Andy, Wang, Joba, Hughes, Ian as the 5 and use whatever assets we have to add to the BP

[phishhead220]

I dont think the Yankees will get Haren nor do I really care if they do.


BB doesnt like the Yankees to begin w/ so he always tries to rape us in potential trades



I'm ready to move ahead w/ Andy, Wang, Joba, Hughes, Ian as the 5 and use whatever assets we have to add to the BP

The young three ought to be fun to watch in full time roles this year.

[unklechucky]

:popcorn:

[Orange Nation]

According to KNBR, the framework of the Santana deal is done, with the Sox sending Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson, and Kalish to Minnesota for Johan. Some details and kinks still need to be worked out, but there’s little reason to expect that this won’t get done by tonight or tomorrow morning.

Talks with Santana’s agent about an extension could begin tomorrow. Indications are that the Sox will start with an offer of five-years, $100 million and go from there.

sweet.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Haren would be a nice addition, but I'm not giving them Phil Hughes for him. Actually, they can't have Kennedy or Chamberlain, either. Maybe Billy Beane will quit like Minnesota and hand his team's top pitcher to the Yankees. Perhaps the Yanks can land Haren for a horrible roster player and B-level prospects. Did I mention how much I hate the Twins?

[MeccaOfManhood]

I think the Angels are in the Johan sweepstakes and will make a great offer to get him. They seemed to back out of the Cabrera sweepstakes (he and Willis are now Tigers) so I could see the same names going to the Twins.

[phishhead220]

I think the Angels are in the Johan sweepstakes and will make a great offer to get him. They seemed to back out of the Cabrera sweepstakes (he and Willis are now Tigers) so I could see the same names going to the Twins.

Howie Kendrick at 2b and Brandon Wood at SS would be a nice start, throw in a third player like Reggie Willits or a big time pitcher and that's a better deal than Boston is offering IMO.

[Merk]

Howie Kendrick at 2b and Brandon Wood at SS would be a nice start, throw in a third player like Reggie Willits or a big time pitcher and that's a better deal than Boston is offering IMO.

They wouldnt need both Kendrick and Wood in the deal


One of them, Weaver, Willits, and maybe another B prospect and the dial would swing to the Angels

[Orange Nation]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Yanks came back with Kennedy in the mix. It makes complete sense for the new "boss" to make a splash like that and ink a Santana. That's the great thing about this whole saga, that if the Sox get Santana they get Santana on top of all the young players they already have and get better as a team, but if the Yanks get him they blow their entire wad going forward on a guy who, if he doesn't live up to Pedro numbers will be bood in NY. But if he comes to Boston he'll be pitching ahead of Beckett, Dice and Schilling. It's win-win. Hell, it's WINTASTIC!

[Merk]

The Yankees may come back in w/ Horne/Jackson in the deal but I dont think there is any way they include both Kennedy and Hughes



I wouldnt be surprised if the Twins at this point are still trying to get the Yankees back in it

[JLB]

The Yankees may come back in w/ Horne/Jackson in the deal but I dont think there is any way they include both Kennedy and Hughes



I wouldnt be surprised if the Twins at this point are still trying to get the Yankees back in it

GO YANKS GO!!

[Orange Nation]

Nice. A ninth-round outfielder. I hope the Twins burn for this.

The Red Sox are, shocking as it may be, capable of making a deal using lower-level guys who have tremendous upside, and the Twins are smart enough--as so many here apparently didn't think they were--to know talent when they see it, and VALUE when they see it.

It doesn't take a genius to know that the Sox aren't going to give away all of their top talent for a one-year rental. They also aren't going to overpay just to prevent the Yankees from doing something.

[Merk]

The Red Sox are, shocking as it may be, capable of making a deal using lower-level guys who have tremendous upside, and the Twins are smart enough--as so many here apparently didn't think they were--to know talent when they see it, and VALUE when they see it.

It doesn't take a genius to know that the Sox aren't going to give away all of their top talent for a one-year rental. They also aren't going to overpay just to prevent the Yankees from doing something.


One Year Rental?


Your going to have to give JS about 23+ a year for 5 years or hes going to use his NTC

[Orange Nation]

One Year Rental?


Your going to have to give JS about 23+ a year for 5 years or hes going to use his NTC

You're right the final trade is contingent on the sox signing him to an extension.

And yeah, as far as all negotiations without extension go, this is a one year rental. They will need to sign him to an extension, but that is not impacted by the package they are giving away.

[BF_in_Indiana]

Highway robbery. What a joke. I don't want to hear any Sox fans talking about the Yankees spending habbits ever again. The Sox are the same way at this point.

[Orange Nation]

Stop crying over it, BF. Boo hoo...only 2 teams could afford Santana.

[Orange Nation]

Roto:

The Boston Herald indicates that the Red Sox and Twins may be through talking for the night.

Neither the Twins nor the Red Sox seem to be feeling much sense of urgency here. The Red Sox still don't actually need to make the deal, and the Twins may figure better offers will come along later, though they risk upsetting Johan Santana if they continue to leave everything up in the air. The Herald is also reporting that the Red Sox have told Ryan Kalish’s agent that his client’s name never came up in talks with the Twins, even though he was rumored for most of the day to be in Boston's new 5-for-1 proposal.

Can Santana just step in and tell the Twins to get this thing done.

[nyjunc]

Santana, Beckett, DiceK, Schilling, Wakefield, Bucholz

That potential rotation is nasty, I'm curious now as to what Dan Haren will draw from NY. Having arbitration years might raise his price. There is no good plan B for the Yankees to walk away from talks with the A's.

The to 2 are obviosly incredible but after that it's medicority unless Buchholz develops quickly. Either way yo'd be in great position for another title w/ that top 2.

I am tired of these teams asking for more from the Yanks then taking less from other teams specifically the Sox.

[Merk]

The to 2 are obviosly incredible but after that it's medicority unless Buchholz develops quickly. Either way yo'd be in great position for another title w/ that top 2.

I am tired of these teams asking for more from the Yanks then taking less from other teams specifically the Sox.


+1.

[Callaway]

You can tell the Twins dont love the Red Sox deal. If they did they would have already made it. Seriously they must have woke up this morning and said are we going to trade the best pitcher in the game for J.Lester who looks to be nothing more than a 3 starter in this league and a defensive 4th OF'er named Coco ****ing Crisp. How in the hell do you sell that to your fans. Plus the prospects there getting suck Masterson had a 4 plus ERA all last season and only projects at best a #2 but after seeing some film on him hes a #3 and Lowrie is nothing to write home about and looks like his future is at 2nd base not SS

So lets review

2 starters with neither of whom have ace potential
The joke that is Coco Crisp
and an overated SS prospect who looks like a better fit for 2nd base

for

J.Santana


The Twins GM should be fired on the spot if he makes that deal

[unklechucky]

Sounds like a whole lot of jealousy to me.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

The to 2 are obviosly incredible but after that it's medicority unless Buchholz develops quickly. Either way yo'd be in great position for another title w/ that top 2.

I am tired of these teams asking for more from the Yanks then taking less from other teams specifically the Sox.

Exactly. These organizations are always trying to fleece the Yankees. I think Hank has had enough, and I don't blame him one iota. Boston's offer is mediocre at best; it would be apropos if they were trying to land a No. 3 starter, not the top lefty in baseball.

[Merk]

So heres the latest according to radio interviews I've heard from various people

-The Yankees are offcially out

-The offer I mentioned earlier in the thread is off the table and any new deal will have to be done from scratch

-If the deal is to be revived the Twins will have to come to the Yankees and P.Hughes will be off the table. It will have to be centered around Ian Kennedy

-The reason the deal will not be revived from a Yankee standpoint is that the FO was very much split on whether involving Hughes was a good idea. Most think it wasnt and therefor no one will push Hank in the Org to say they need to get back in this

-The Twins have been trying to get the Yankees back in and better the offer. Heres where the impass is. The Yankees already believe they had a better offer on the table. They think they had the best player on the board in Hughes and the other players where a wash from that point on down compared to Bostons offer

-Its now 50/50 that the Twins make the deal w/ the Sox. They still dont think there getting enough and they dont think they can sell this deal to the fans

-Bad job by the Twins GM letting the Yankees leave the table. Smith overplayed his hand and is now left w/ only one team to deal w/. He is trying anything to get another team involved but is failing

[BigPapi]

Sounds like a whole lot of jealousy to me.



It's funny that no one is upset over the Tigers/Marlins deal. On one other note every team gets revenue sharing dollars evey year and are not forced to spend it on the product on the field don't blame the big market teams for that write a letter to Selig. Imagine how the Marlins fans (if there are any left) feel , your team was all stocked 4 years ago and b/c of your greedy ass owners wanting to pocket the money you have nothing left from that team. If people are going to be all pissy about the big market teams spending maybe they should be more angry at their teams ownership not spending the money they get from the Boston, NY's and L.A's of the leauge and keeping it for themselves.


Anyone who is a fan of a team that spends 90 million or more shouldn't complain about the Santana deal as thier teams could afford it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_teams_by_payroll

[Merk]

Brian Cashman, Yanks balk at millions and Phil Hughes for Johan Santana
Wednesday, December 5th 2007, 4:00 AM

Brian Cashman is not worried about Johan Santana's (below) possible move to Boston - his call is to go with the kids in the rotation.

Heisenfelt/AP
(Page 1 of 2)

NASHVILLE - Even though George Steinbrenner is no longer the one to say it, Brian Cashman had better be right about Phil Hughes.

The Yankee GM, who is staking his job on his young-gun pitchers, has walked away from a 4-for-1 trade of players the Twins were agreeable to for Johan Santana at the winter meetings that included Hughes, but not Ian Kennedy (as Minnesota initially requested) or any of the Bombers' other top prospects. By doing so, Cashman has apparently handed one of the best young pitchers in baseball to the Red Sox for a parcel of prospects that is also likely to be a far cry from the Twins' original asking price for their premier lefthander.

But it is more than just Cashman's belief in Hughes that suddenly put the Yankees in full retreat after Hank Steinbrenner had sounded the "Charge!" on Santana. Believe it or not, the final decision not to go through with a deal that was on the table - one that would have sacrificed Hughes, Melky Cabrera, 23-year-old Double-A righthander Jeff Marquez and 22-year-old A-ball third baseman Mitch Hilligoss - was based on money.

Once Andy Pettitte announced he was returning to the fold for $16 million, it meant the Yankees had committed $408.4 million this winter to retain six players. The acquisition of Santana would have meant tacking on another $125 million to that figure, and Cashman, who never wanted to do the Santana deal in the first place, blanched at the prospect of adding another $20 million to a payroll that was already on the cusp of $200 million, again. In this respect, the timing of Pettitte's decision to return - while initially seen as giving the Yankees additional leverage in their dealings with the Twins on Santana - actually gave Cashman the "out" he needed.

Bad as it was to be sacrificing Hughes, Cashman told the Yankee high command, look at what the payroll was going to be now if they added $20 million-$21 million for Santana on top of the $16 million they just tacked on with Pettitte. At that point, there was considerable internal debate as to whether to proceed with Santana even after the Twins had backed off from Kennedy and picked Marquez, who is regarded as a second-tier pitching prospect, and Hilligoss, a Wade Boggs-type singles-hitting third baseman who did have a 35-game hitting streak last season and led the South Atlantic League in hits.

In the end, Cashman prevailed, convincing Hank and Hal Steinbrenner of something he could never have done with their dad - that trading for Johan Santana was simply too expensive for the New York Yankees. Left unsaid was why the Yankee payroll is once again out of hand. For starters, there's the $10 million that is being frittered away on Carl Pavano next season and another $4 million for Kei Igawa that is separate from his $26 million posting fee. And had Cashman not chosen to let Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera play out the season before dealing with them as free agents, he would have saved at least a year and a couple of million apiece on their contracts.

In fact, the payroll glut would have been only for one year as some $80 million for Pettitte, Pavano, Kyle Farnsworth, Mike Mussina, Bobby Abreu and Jason Giambi come off the books after '08. But that apparently was not a consideration for Cashman. The GM never wanted to do this Santana deal, never wanted to get tied up in another expensive long-term contract for a pitcher and, above all, never wanted to give up Hughes.

Cashman wants his legacy to be the young guns - Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Kennedy - and he is banking on them forming the nucleus of a rotation that would better that of the Red Sox. That would certainly be a reach, especially if Santana joins Josh Beckett, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Curt Schilling, Tim Wakefield and the rookie phenom they wouldn't give the Twins, Clay Buchholz. For all the Yankee hype about Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy, nothing is said for the fact that none of them has thrown more 165 innings in a season while Santana has given the Twins more than 900 over the last four years.

Unlike Tigers' GM Dave Dombrowski, who boldly sacrificed his two top prospects - lefthander Andrew Miller and center fielder Cameron Maybin - to go for it all in a deal for Florida's two franchise players Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera, Cashman is overly proctective of his prospects.

With his own contract expiring after next season, Cashman better have an idea as to where all those innings are going to come from and he'd better be right that Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy are the real deal.

Especially Hughes.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/05/2007-12-05_brian_cashman_yanks_balk_at_millions_and.html?p age=0



This is the most important line in there IMO

Cashman wants his legacy to be the young guns - Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Kennedy

Cash really likes these kids and make no mistake about it his legacy will be tied to them. Time will tell

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Mike Francesa made the point earlier today. The Yankees' dynasty was very much built on patience. They didn't trade guys like Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera for veterans. The franchise hung onto them, developed them properly, and they paid dividends to the tune of four World Series rings and six pennants.

I don't blame the Yankees for wanting to keep all their young players.

As a fan, I'm ready to move forward with the young guns on the mound. Hopefully, if Santana doesn't go to the Yankees, he'll stay in Minnesota.

[Merk]

I already posted this in the other thread but it belongs in here too




Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot


If that goes down Omar has some Balls trading Reyes who is huge in New York. You cant walk around Queens for 5 mins w/out seeing at least 5 Reyes Jerseys

[Orange Nation]

The way I see it.

1) The Twins almost have to deal Santana for many reasons. a) It is unrealistic for them to make the playoffs with Detroit vastly improved and the Indians in their division. b) If they let Santana walk, they get 2 1st round picks, but they most likely won't end up as good as the packages any team is offering. c) They have many holes to fill and the Sox prospects are good and inexpensive.

2) The Twins don't have much leverage since no team is "really into" Santana as much as the Sox, and they have the best offer now. Since they are trying to squeeze Ellsbury and Lester out of the Sox, they act like they won't deal him. The Sox know this so they are standing pat. Which is why it wouldn't surprise me to see this deal happen next week when there aren't 1000 reporters annoying them.


3) The Sox have a good package. Look, for most all-star pitchers, it is a top prospect and then a mid level one. Ramirez and Sanchez for Beckett. They also got Mota and Lowell which is why they gave up more. Pavano and Armas Jr. for Martinez. Also, these guys were under contract for awhile, unlike Santana, who you have to fork over 100+ million. Lester=Top lefty pitching prospect who could be a potential #2, Masterson=Potential #3-4 Derek Lowe type. Coco is a gold glove caliber CF, who could turn his offense around in Minny. And Kalish is unknown at this point.

4) For the Sox side, I am sorry, I'd deal Ellsbury AND Lester for Santana. As fun as Ellsbury is to watch, he isn't going to win a WS title unlike Santana could. We are over obsessed with him. What if he hits .258 next season and Lester goes Craig Hansen on us and posts a 4.9 ERA while Santana wins a Cy Young and goes 20-7 with a 2.22 ERA?

[Orange Nation]

I already posted this in the other thread but it belongs in here too

Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot

If that goes down Omar has some Balls trading Reyes who is huge in New York. You cant walk around Queens for 5 mins w/out seeing at least 5 Reyes Jerseys

Is that from MLB Trade Rumors? If so, I find that site pretty unreliable.

With three big names involved I'm sure it would get complicated and fall through even if it picks up any steam.

Also, Minnesota would be in the same situation with Haren in 2 years.

and I don't see the Mets getting Santana AND Crosby AND Johnson. Only Santana IMO if it goes down....highly unlikely.

[Carl J. Ironsides]

It was all a ploy by Boston so the Yankees would lose tons of young talent by trading it to Minnesota, rather than just giving up maybe Kennedy, Cabrera and a minor leaguer. At this point, Santana is either going to stay with the Twins or head to Seattle or the Yankees. The Red Sox' offer was garbage; they were never in this to begin with.

[unklechucky]

More sour grapes C?

[Carl J. Ironsides]

More sour grapes C?

Epstein was smart to try to screw the Yankees, but it didn't work. Boston will not land Santana. Book it.

[Orange Nation]

You mean you hope they don't. Anythings possible.

[Merk]

Is that from MLB Trade Rumors? If so, I find that site pretty unreliable.

With three big names involved I'm sure it would get complicated and fall through even if it picks up any steam.

Also, Minnesota would be in the same situation with Haren in 2 years.

and I don't see the Mets getting Santana AND Crosby AND Johnson. Only Santana IMO if it goes down....highly unlikely.


I got it off a Mets board and saw it on MLBTC after that


No one is taking it seriously b/c everyone knows even if he wanted to Omar cant trade Reyes b/c he would be killed by the media and Fans. He cant move Wright for the same reason. Maybe he could move Beltran but he would also have to pillage an already weak ML system to get the Twins to even consider it


At this point the Mets are kidding themselves if they think they are going to land an Ace pitcher via trade.

If I'm them I suck it up and go sign B.Colon to a 1 year deal w/ a club option for a second and hope that he can at least get you through the season w/ some respectable numbers and maybe even catch lighting in a bottle w/ him

Then hope that Johan stays w/ the Twins and hits FA'cy and go hard after him. Or they can do the same w/ CC Sabathia who I believe is a FA after this year

[Carl J. Ironsides]

You mean you hope they don't. Anythings possible.

Nope. I mean they won't.

[Orange Nation]

I got it off a Mets board and saw it on MLBTC after that


No one is taking it seriously b/c everyone knows even if he wanted to Omar cant trade Reyes b/c he would be killed by the media and Fans. He cant move Wright for the same reason. Maybe he could move Beltran but he would also have to pillage an already weak ML system to get the Twins to even consider it


At this point the Mets are kidding themselves if they think they are going to land an Ace pitcher via trade.

If I'm them I suck it up and go sign B.Colon to a 1 year deal w/ a club option for a second and hope that he can at least get you through the season w/ some respectable numbers and maybe even catch lighting in a bottle w/ him

Then hope that Johan stays w/ the Twins and hits FA'cy and go hard after him. Or they can do the same w/ CC Sabathia who I believe is a FA after this year

idk if anyone saw this but ....

Santana/Reyes/Haren Blockbuster Quashed
UPDATE, 12-5-07 at 5:45pm: Billy Beane, who rarely comments on trade rumors, actually went out of his way to call mine below a "total fabrication." I guess I should be proud, right? It sounds like I was the victim of an elaborate hoax/impersonated sportswriter. If so I apologize - not sure why someone would go to such lengths, but lesson learned.

[unklechucky]

Nope. I mean they won't.

looks like youre getting your Yankee stripes back.....Btw...wheres your sidekick 244 been?

[Carl J. Ironsides]

looks like youre getting your Yankee stripes back.....Btw...wheres your sidekick 244 been?

They never left.

244 has some issues (family, school, etc.) to deal with; he'll be back eventually.

[dasaybz]

The Yanks should be going after Johan like crazy. Giving up Hughes and Melky is really not a big deal in my opinion. This guy is the premier lefty in all of baseball, and he's in the prime of his career.

They will be dumping plenty of salary after next year. Really, they should get this deal done, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

[Orange Nation]

LMAO...who didn't see this coming? Just Hank being Hank.

Asked Thursday whether the Yankees would be willing to re-open trade talks for Johan Santana, Hank Steinbrenner said: "You never close the door completely."

"The reason for my deadline is I didn't want to get caught up in the bidding circus at the winter meetings," Steinbrenner said. There's still plenty of time for the Santana situation to play out more or less like the Alex Rodriguez situation did

The Boston Herald reports that "it remains a near certainty" that Johan Santana "will be dealt, most likely to the Yankees or the Red Sox."

The newspaper speculates that the Mets are "a distant third right now" and suggests that a Santana trade could come "later this month or early in the new year." With Angels general manager Tony Reagins saying Thursday that he's not in the market for starting pitching and the Dodgers' interest in Santana unclear, it's starting to look like a three-team race.

[BF_in_Indiana]

It's sad that the Twins are going to have to dump him for a trash offer from either the Sox or Yanks.

But we all know that's what's going to happen.

[unklechucky]

It's sad that the Twins are going to have to dump him for a trash offer from either the Sox or Yanks.

But we all know that's what's going to happen.

How is either offer(Sox/Yankees) trash? Both offers had huge prospects and provens. Just because th3e Cards werent a player in this mix doesnt make these offers trash.

[BF_in_Indiana]

How is either offer(Sox/Yankees) trash? Both offers had huge prospects and provens. Just because th3e Cards werent a player in this mix doesnt make these offers trash.

Has nothing to do with the Cardinals being in the mix. We can't afford him. I think the Yankees offer could be ok if they spiced it up again but the Red Sox offer is just junk. Coco Crisp......that's a joke.

Hell the Tigers could have put together a better package than either of these teams.

[Orange Nation]

Depending on what happens to Andy Pettitte the Yanks may up their offer which would then put the Sox in a place to make a decision and I think if I'm Theo I include Lester to get that dominant rotation.

[BigPapi]

I don't think Pettite will miss much time as if there is a a suspension it has to be in accordance with the policy at the time and as far as I have read the use was in 2002, so he shouldn't miss much. All that said I still think they should do whatever they can to finish this deal as Santana is one of if not the best pitcher in baseball.

[Merk]

Nothing will happen to Andy

Theres nothing but Heresay linking him to HGH
No failed test
and HGH wasnt a banned until 2005

There is no way the MLBPA lets him miss any time

and if he does Selig should then go suspend every player , which would be 99% of them, that used varing degrees of Amphetamines before they were banned

[Orange Nation]

:rolleyes2

Yankees VP Hank Steinbrenner said GM Brian Cashman talked to the Twins about Johan Santana "once in the last couple of days."

The Twins would almost surely have to go back to the Yankees for their best offer before they decide to do a deal with another team. "We're still thinking about it," Hank Steinbrenner said. "We haven't ruled it out completely. We're still considering it. I haven't closed the door completely on Santana." Except for setting an unalterable deadline that passed nearly two weeks ago, nope, he hasn't ruled out anything. According to the Star-Ledger, a person who has spoken to Minnesota management and asked not to be named because he is not authorized to speak for the team said the Yankees told the Twins they would get back into the Santana talks if they can shed the contract of Hideki Matsui.

[BigPapi]

Santana's agent say his contract demands are 7yrs @ 20mill a year. Too many years if you ask me. I'd say 5-6 that's it.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/mlb

[Merk]

In a watershed winter in Minnesota, the Twins are sinking fast. The model for a beautiful, open-air — and revenue-boosting — downtown stadium are there to see on the team’s official Web site.

But right now, the Twins are playing a financial game they can’t win.

Torii Hunter signed with the Los Angeles Angels for $90 million. Carlos Silva got $48 million to jump to the Seattle Mariners. And with the unattainable financial parameters established at $125-million-plus for Johan Santana, it’s only a matter of time before he is traded.

When that happens, there will be only dismal short-term prospects for a team that dropped 17 games in the standings last season with Hunter, Silva and Santana on the roster. And we likely will be looking at the end of arguably the best small-to-mid-market franchise run in the free agency/big money era — and another painful reminder of the imposing financial disparities facing teams trying to keep pace with the American League fiscal and on-field heavyweights.

Even when you do nearly everything right — as the Twins did under departed general manager Terry Ryan through the early years of this decade — there is no guarantee of post-season success. And then you face the inevitable falloff.

This is no sympathy plea for billionaire Twins owner Carl Pohlad, the game’s richest owner, who should be willing to put more of his fortune into the club, as Tigers owner Mike Ilitch is doing. But even while the game is in the midst of an unprecedented financial boom — from around $1 billion annually in gross revenue in 1995 to more than $6 billion annually now — the stark reality is that the financial playing field remains anything but level.

Revenue sharing has done a small part to help aggressive, well-run teams such as the Milwaukee Brewers become contenders. But the latest competitive balance tax bills have come due, and only one team — the Yankees — will pay anything of significance. They owe $23.88 million according to the Associated Press, while only the Red Sox also have to pay — a $6 million tab they gladly will pick up in the wake of their World Series sweep.

But that’s it. And it’s been that way since the so-called luxury tax was instituted in 2003. The Yankees have paid in a total of $121.6 million with no World Series titles to show for it. The Red Sox are a very distant second at $13.8 million contributed, and the Angels — $927,000 in 2004 — are the only other team to have paid so much as a dime. Clearly, the threshold is too high to affect any significant revenue re-distribution, and it will rise to from $148 million to $155 million in 2008, when again, only the Yankees are Red Sox are likely to surpass it.

So naturally, you know where Santana most likely will land. There currently is a standoff in the trade talks, with the Twins not willing to settle for what’s being offered, and the Red Sox and Yankees (and anybody else who may be involved) not willing to raise the ante.

Part of the problem is the size of Santana’s soon-to-be-negotiated contract extension. When you pay that kind of price, you don’t want to surrender the elite of your farm system, too. The Twins also find themselves in a position where they need big-league-ready talent, and not prospects who will pay off a few years down the road. So the right match has yet to be struck, although it will be soon enough. (It says here the Twins should grab a Yankees’ package of Ian Kennedy and Melky Cabrera if Phil Hughes is off the table.)

But the fact is, the Twins are backed into a corner and have to deal — and it is up to new general manager/longtime Ryan assistant Bill Smith to maximize the return. But Smith has a tough act to follow, as Ryan constructed rosters that posted four 90-win seasons and four division titles in five years 2002-2006.

Under Ryan, Santana was the best Rule 5 draft pickup (actually in a draft-day trade after he was selected by Florida) since Roberto Clemente. Ryan also engineered the biggest trade steal of this decade, getting Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano and Boof Bonser for A.J. Pierzynski and cash in November of 2003.

Losing Santana, Silva and Matt Garza — dealt for Delmon Young — will mean losing exactly half the starts (81) and just more than 500 innings from last year’s staff.

That will leave a rotation of Liriano, Bonser and a handful of candidates with little big-league experience led by Scott Baker and Kevin Slowey. At least Liriano is expected to be ready to go in spring training after missing all of last season.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22412228/

[Orange Nation]

OK, well Hank said he is "leaning towards" a Johan deal. Then just do it Already!!

Firstly, the ****ing ego on this guy, overruling the opinions of not only the general manager, whom his father gave authority over baseball operations back when he negotiated his new contract either prior to, or following the 2005 season (I forget right now), and his brother Hal, who is supposed to be his equal in running the team, and who also oversees all of the Yankee finances. The possibility of Joba being a bust and Phil going on to have an All-Star career is not something I would want to have to face (not that I think Joba is going to be a bust, but Hughes was THAT GUY for about 2 years in the Yankee system). I say the Yanks should just wait this out, see if they need him at the trade deadline, reasess the situation, or even, and more preferably, wait until the offseason, provided he doesn't ink a long-term somewhere if he is perhaps traded mid-season. That way you can give him all the money he wants, and keep your prospects (granted you lose the picks). IDK, just my thoughts. Like father, like son I suppose.

[Sammy Avalon]

I root for a mid market team. Our payroll is roughly 95 million. The Red Sox payroll is what? 140? The Yankees? Over 200? The Twins? What maybe 50?

Salary cap...........it's needed.

Thank you

The Yanks are going to end up with Santana they do not have an Ace as of now if they want a shot to win the east next year.