Showdown Looms as Child Health Bill Passes

[JLB]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/27/AR2007092701038.html

The Senate, with an overwhelming bipartisan vote yesterday, sent President Bush a $35 billion expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program, setting up the biggest domestic policy clash of his presidency and launching a fight that will reverberate into the 2008 elections.

Bush has vowed to veto the measure, but he has faced strong criticism from many fellow Republicans reluctant to turn away from a popular measure that would renew and expand an effective program aimed at low-income children. Democratic leaders, while still as many as two dozen votes short in the House, are campaigning hard for the first veto override of Bush's presidency.

[kybillsfan]

Low income my ass, they want to cover families making over 50k a year. This is about as un-american as it gets.

[JLB]

Low income my ass, they want to cover families making over 50k a year. This is about as un-american as it gets.

He'll veto it but it may just be a formality.

[Green Lantern]

I guess $50K is alot in the hinterlands.

[anEinherjer]

You can have a family on a 10 acre piece of land in Wales (that's about 20 mins from Buffalo) EASILY on 50k.


Slippery slope. Nice to see it in action.

[kybillsfan]

I guess $50K is alot in the hinterlands. It doesnt make someone rich by any means but you can live comfortably on much less than 50k.

[Green Lantern]

It doesnt make someone rich by any means but you can live comfortably on much less than 50k.

I guess it all depends on where you live.
50K in some parts is an excellent job, in other parts it is a single person's wage who lives with roommates.

[kybillsfan]

I guess it all depends on where you live.
50K in some parts is an excellent job, in other parts it is a single person's wage who lives with roommates. That maybe but in most places its good money and you dont have to go far to find where it is a good wage. The tax burden starts to get pretty hefty at that range. I have a hard time believing that 50k is a single persons wage in places. If a person manages their money well I dont see how you couldnt make it. Thats about $800-$850 a week.

[anEinherjer]

My brother's doing it and perfectly comfortable. Sure he's got to save for a few months to buy big ticket items, but... there's nothing wrong with it.

And he sure as shit doesn't need our benevolent dictators to pay for his kid's healthcare.

[Gibby]

Gibby's confused again. We are willing to subsidize healthcare for Iraqi children but we are not willing to subsidize the medical expenses of our own children? Our resident librarians such as AnEin and Pete are not required to respond because God knows they are consistent. However, I would implore Sukie and the merry band of CONServatives to explain.

[sukie]

Gibbs.. I will try.

Do we subsidize the healthcare of all children because they are:
a) children
b) Children but mom and dad make 50k or less
c) because it sounds cool and moral

[Gibby]

A) but then again thats just me.

[sukie]

So every child? Regardless of means?

[Gibby]

So every child? Regardless of means?

It wouldn't be universal if it was anything else now would it?

[nehemiah]

how many kids in that family of 50k?

nice try, fellas (and sukie).

[sukie]

Gibby... so financial means aside... if it is universal coverage then it should be universally equal taxation to pay for it... AND we won't have any of that now will we.

Nehe, it isn't a bad rhythm method issue

[mighty peace warrior]

i don't see a problem with all kids being able to go to the doctor. its not their fault their parents are useless.

Healthcare for all kids is not something I would be opposed to helping pay for

[sukie]

Even the millionaires kids?

[mighty peace warrior]

even the millionaires kids, they would be paying more than me anyway...and since there are more nonmillionare kids than millionaire kids I wouldn't sweat it too much

[mighty peace warrior]

i help pay for rich kids to go to school, how is this different?

[sukie]

It's additional... What is next? What other GOOD idea should be provided for by the government?

[mighty peace warrior]

It's additional... What is next? What other GOOD idea should be provided for by the government?

additional no kidding?

I dunno what else do you think?

explain to me how having kids healthy is bad?

the whole i would have to help pay for 1 percent of the population to benefit the other 99 percent thing didn't work, so you are resorting to smoke and mirrors and "future evil"?

[sukie]

Healthcare does not make them healthy... You need to separate the two... Does having a free visit to the doctor increase health? No it doesn't

[mighty peace warrior]

Healthcare does not make them healthy... You need to separate the two... Does having a free visit to the doctor increase health? No it doesn't

I certainly don't need to separate the two..if you are unhealthy, such as having a treatable disease health care will make you healthy.

could a free visit to the doctor save their lives?

yes...

[sukie]

So if I chose not to cover stepsukie since I know you'll all pick up the tab... That's ok?

[mighty peace warrior]

So if I chose not to cover stepsukie since I know you'll all pick up the tab... That's ok?

if it was a life threatening or potentially disabling thing that happened to him then yes

but you would still be helping to pay...either way, just like school.

[sukie]

You are not responsible for a 12 year olds high cholesterol problem... therefore you are not responsible for his Lipitor prescription bills.

[sukie]

ESPECIALLY if mom and dad make 50k

[mighty peace warrior]

You are not responsible for a 12 year olds high cholesterol problem... therefore you are not responsible for his Lipitor prescription bills.

i would rather pay for him to get healthcare then watch them die...why do you assume there could be no preventative measures in this system?

[mighty peace warrior]

ESPECIALLY if mom and dad make 50k

if they make more than 50k they are paying just as much as i am

[mighty peace warrior]

ok not just as much if that is all they make

[sukie]

i would rather pay for him to get healthcare then watch them die...why do you assume there could be no preventative measures in this system?

What is the preventative measure aside from bitchslapping mom and dad for the Pizza rolls and happy meal diet fat timmy is on while playing Xbox in the 32 inch HD lcd they bought for the unhealthy little bastard.

If they are making 50k... Take care of your kid! Stop buying pot weekly... Drink cheaper beer. Drop the premium Directv package and take care of fat Timmy.

You doinked mom... now pay up. We as a society should no have to be responsible from your drunken score on a fat chick at a nightclub.

[nehemiah]

:popcorn:

1) MPW has officially pwnt this thread.
2) MPW is a filthy, tree-hugging hippie.

[35Pete]

:popcorn:

1) MPW has officially pwnt this thread.
2) MPW is a filthy, tree-hugging hippie.

Take a look at sukie's last post.

Hit's the nail right on the head.

Responsibility. If you cannot be responsible for your children then you should not be ****ing.

You haven't earned the right to pass into adulthood and thus participate in blissful coitus with a getting a good blowjob as a dessert.

Or even crappy sex. Cause that's still better than CSI Miami anyday of the week.

[Green Lantern]

Take a look at sukie's last post.

Hit's the nail right on the head.

Responsibility. If you cannot be responsible for your children then you should not be ****ing.

You haven't earned the right to pass into adulthood and thus participate in blissful coitus with a getting a good blowjob as a dessert.

Or even crappy sex. Cause that's still better than CSI Miami anyday of the week.

MPW is talking about the reality, not your philosophy on life.

[35Pete]

MPW is talking about the reality, not your philosophy on life.

No Aqua. By treating the symptom as the problem, you never get to the core of the issue. Sukie nailed the disease. You guys are distracted by the symptoms.

All of this education of you guys is such an unthankful task.

But persevere I must. And I will.

[Green Lantern]

No Aqua. By treating the symptom as the problem, you never get to the core of the issue. Sukie nailed the disease. You guys are distracted by the symptoms.

All of this education of you guys is such an unthankful task.

But persevere I must. And I will.

No, you are wrong. You and Sukie are talking about something different than MPW.

[35Pete]

No, you are wrong. You and Sukie are talking about something different than MPW.

It is my observation that most poor kids are poor because their parents are screwups. Not all, don't trap me into that pigeonhole.

But just stroll through any barrio, ghetto, or trailerpark and you'll know what I mean.

Get to the root of the problem aqua. Responsible parenting. And that includes health insurance OVER cable TV, beer, and smokes.

Don't assume that everyone is as good a parent as you guys are.

[Green Lantern]

It is my observation that most poor kids are poor because their parents are screwups. Not all, don't trap me into that pigeonhole.

But just stroll through any barrio, ghetto, or trailerpark and you'll know what I mean.

Get to the root of the problem aqua. Responsible parenting. And that includes health insurance OVER cable TV, beer, and smokes.

Don't assume that everyone is as good a parent as you guys are.

I do not agree with MPW.

I am just trying to point out that MPW is talking about taking care of kids and you are talking about how to try and eliminate the need to take care of kids. Those are two different things.

[35Pete]

I do not agree with MPW.

I am just trying to point out that MPW is talking about taking care of kids and you are talking about how to try and eliminate the need to take care of kids. Those are two different things.

Ohh OK. Then we don't have any disagreement.

I do think that we don't ostracize and shame parents enough that fail to put their children before themselves. What ever happened to social shame and stigma?

[Green Lantern]

Ohh OK. Then we don't have any disagreement.

I do think that we don't ostracize and shame parents enough that fail to put their children before themselves. What ever happened to social shame and stigma?


Willfulness, probably.

[Green Lantern]

...Senate Republicans from New Hampshire, Maine, Oregon and Minnesota, who face particularly tough races in 2008, all voted in recent days for a children's health care bill that Bush has pledged to veto.

"I just do not understand his decision, and I think it would be terrible," said Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine. She faces a challenge from Rep. Tom Allen, D-Maine.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/REPUBLICAN_WOES?SITE=1010WINS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[sukie]

Ah those silly republican centrists.

[JLB]

Ah those silly republican centrists.

They are just trying to protect their seats. :D

[mighty peace warrior]

lets punish the kids for being born to crappy parents...

that will learn 'em

[Green Lantern]

They are just trying to protect their seats. :D

Politics is like any sport: you've got to be on the field to play the game.

What does it tell you about Bush's decisions to-date that his fellow Republicans have to take two steps away from him on an issue like this just to avoid getting tomatoes on their suits too?

[Green Lantern]

Bush will veto for the sake of the poor:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congressional Democrats have chosen an unlikely source to pay for the bulk of their proposed $35 billion increase in children's health coverage: people with relatively little money and education.
The program expansion passed by the House and Senate last week would be financed with a 156 percent increase in the federal cigarette tax, taking it to $1 per pack from the current 39 cents. Low-income people smoke more heavily than do wealthier people in the United States, making cigarette taxes a regressive form of revenue.

Democrats, who wrote the legislation and provided most of its votes, generally portray themselves as champions of the poor. They do not dispute that the tax plan would hit poor communities disproportionately, but they say it is worth it to provide health insurance to millions of modest-income children...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CIGARETTE_TAX?SITE=1010WINS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Green Lantern]

Low income my ass, they want to cover families making over 50k a year. This is about as un-american as it gets.

Sounds like they want to assist, not cover. Your thoughts?

...Congress probably will revisit the cigarette tax issue soon because President Bush has pledged to veto the proposed $35 billion expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program. The decade-old program helps families buy medical coverage if their income is too high to qualify for Medicaid...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CIGARETTE_TAX?SITE=1010WINS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[JLB]

Sounds like they want to assist, not cover. Your thoughts?

...Congress probably will revisit the cigarette tax issue soon because President Bush has pledged to veto the proposed $35 billion expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program. The decade-old program helps families buy medical coverage if their income is too high to qualify for Medicaid...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CIGARETTE_TAX?SITE=1010WINS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

bump

[35Pete]

lets punish the kids for being born to crappy parents...

that will learn 'em

Let's just spend money on every perceived social ill that could possibly exist in this country.

Hell, we have an unlimited supply of wealth and resources for all of this stuff, right?

And of course the gubmint will attach all sorts of conditions and hoops to jump through in order to control behavior. They have for EVERY program they have ever concocted. So why would this be different.

And of course there will NEVER be any unintended consequences of the state interfering with the natural homeostatic equilibrium of society. Why that never happens!!!

Instead we'll boil this down to oversimplified tripe.

So what about bankruptcy or creating 50 new unthought of problems for the one that you "think" you are solving? We need to do "something" dammnit!

Perhaps we do. In fact I think we should. But not at the national level. Maybe not even at the political level period.

[JLB]

Let's just spend money on every perceived social ill that could possibly exist in this country.

Hell, we have an unlimited supply of wealth and resources for all of this stuff, right?

And of course the gubmint will attach all sorts of conditions and hoops to jump through in order to control behavior. They have for EVERY program they have ever concocted. So why would this be different.

And of course there will NEVER be any unintended consequences of the state interfering with the natural homeostatic equilibrium of society. Why that never happens!!!

Instead we'll boil this down to oversimplified tripe.

So what about bankruptcy or creating 50 new unthought of problems for the one that you "think" you are solving? We need to do "something" dammnit!

Perhaps we do. In fact I think we should. But not at the national level. Maybe not even at the political level period.

bump

[JLB]

Let's just spend money on every perceived social ill that could possibly exist in this country.

Hell, we have an unlimited supply of wealth and resources for all of this stuff, right?

And of course the gubmint will attach all sorts of conditions and hoops to jump through in order to control behavior. They have for EVERY program they have ever concocted. So why would this be different.

And of course there will NEVER be any unintended consequences of the state interfering with the natural homeostatic equilibrium of society. Why that never happens!!!

Instead we'll boil this down to oversimplified tripe.

So what about bankruptcy or creating 50 new unthought of problems for the one that you "think" you are solving? We need to do "something" dammnit!

Perhaps we do. In fact I think we should. But not at the national level. Maybe not even at the political level period.

once more! :popcorn: