Buffalo 2nd Poorest City in the United States

[Billsman]

Buffalo officially second poorest city in country WIVB TV News 4 Buffalo, Niagara Falls, New York News and Weather - WIVB-TV News 4 - Buffalo 2nd Poorest City in the United States (http://www.wivb.com/Global/story.asp?S=7011318)

Buffalo 2nd Poorest City in the United States

(Buffalo, NY, August 31, 2007) - - It's a grim ranking for the queen city.

The U.S. Census Bureau says Buffalo is the second poorest big city in the country, just behind Detroit.

Buffalo's poverty rate is nearly 30 percent. Experts believe several welfare reform initiatives and a lack of universal health care are some of the reasons buffalo is so poor.

Another problem is the amount of people not graduating from high school.

[UBER PWNAGE]

that's pretty rough

[JMNY83]

Thats weird because I heard on the news here that the Rio Grande Valley is the poorest place in the country. Specifically the Cameron Park are of Brownsville.

[pabstman]

You could look at and say that there's nowhere to go but up?

[Billsman]

Thats why the south towns are a growing....

[Sabres244]

Thats weird because I heard on the news here that the Rio Grande Valley is the poorest place in the country. Specifically the Cameron Park are of Brownsville.

poorest "big city" in the USA

[Shamrock1989]

2nd poorest in the country......Ouch

[Losman4life7]

at least we're not last..

[35Pete]

Buffalo officially second poorest city in country WIVB TV News 4 Buffalo, Niagara Falls, New York News and Weather - WIVB-TV News 4 - Buffalo 2nd Poorest City in the United States (http://www.wivb.com/Global/story.asp?S=7011318)

Buffalo 2nd Poorest City in the United States

(Buffalo, NY, August 31, 2007) - - It's a grim ranking for the queen city.

The U.S. Census Bureau says Buffalo is the second poorest big city in the country, just behind Detroit.

Buffalo's poverty rate is nearly 30 percent. Experts believe several welfare reform initiatives and a lack of universal health care are some of the reasons buffalo is so poor.

Another problem is the amount of people not graduating from high school.

Why are "experts " so stupid? Buffalo is a classic FDR/New Deal type of town. That's why it's dying. So what do the "experts" propose? More poison for the patient!

:groan:

[35Pete]

Byron Brown is an idiot.

I think the people of the City of Buffalo should demand that his family do an encephalogram on him just to be sure.

Methinks it'll be flatter than Paris Hilton.

[sabredan17]

This ranking, as many like this, is extremely skewed. A major reason Buffalo ranks so low is that it resides within one of the only states in the US that has never, historically, allowed municipalities expand their borders and annex surrounding populations. The wealthier populations, of course, are the ones capable of affording the larger land parcels and transportation costs of moving outside the city boundaries. Most cities in the US, at some point, have been allowed to expand their borders to incorporate those dispersing, wealthy populations. Several cities encompass entire counties. Buffalo remains one of the smallest cities in square miles in relation to its metropolitan population.

While Buffalo is certainly not one of the wealthiest cities in the nation, this study is completely inaccurate in its means to rank cities according to their wealth. Buffalo, as a metropolitan region,actually ranks in the upper echelon when it comes to its wealth in ratio to its cost of living (one of the lowest in the country).

Census bureau data can be interpreted any way that people want, but there are ways more responsible than others. This ranking is little more than a sensationalized news story.

[ROOK33]

This ranking, as many like this, is extremely skewed. A major reason Buffalo ranks so low is that it resides within one of the only states in the US that has never, historically, allowed municipalities expand their borders and annex surrounding populations. The wealthier populations, of course, are the ones capable of affording the larger land parcels and transportation costs of moving outside the city boundaries. Most cities in the US, at some point, have been allowed to expand their borders to incorporate those dispersing, wealthy populations. Several cities encompass entire counties. Buffalo remains one of the smallest cities in square miles in relation to its metropolitan population.

While Buffalo is certainly not one of the wealthiest cities in the nation, this study is completely inaccurate in its means to rank cities according to their wealth. Buffalo, as a metropolitan region,actually ranks in the upper echelon when it comes to its wealth in ratio to its cost of living (one of the lowest in the country).




Census bureau data can be interpreted any way that people want, but there are ways more responsible than others. This ranking is little more than a sensationalized news story.

Nice response and I agree- NICE JOB!!

[Shama-Lama Ding Dong]

Why are "experts " so stupid? Buffalo is a classic FDR/New Deal type of town. That's why it's dying. So what do the "experts" propose? More poison for the patient!

:groan:

Pete, get real. The corruption is the problem. That place is so frikkin bought it is irrepairable.

[35Pete]

This ranking, as many like this, is extremely skewed. A major reason Buffalo ranks so low is that it resides within one of the only states in the US that has never, historically, allowed municipalities expand their borders and annex surrounding populations. The wealthier populations, of course, are the ones capable of affording the larger land parcels and transportation costs of moving outside the city boundaries. Most cities in the US, at some point, have been allowed to expand their borders to incorporate those dispersing, wealthy populations. Several cities encompass entire counties. Buffalo remains one of the smallest cities in square miles in relation to its metropolitan population.

While Buffalo is certainly not one of the wealthiest cities in the nation, this study is completely inaccurate in its means to rank cities according to their wealth. Buffalo, as a metropolitan region,actually ranks in the upper echelon when it comes to its wealth in ratio to its cost of living (one of the lowest in the country).

Census bureau data can be interpreted any way that people want, but there are ways more responsible than others. This ranking is little more than a sensationalized news story.
"Expand their borders and annex surrounding populations"?

What if they don't want to be annexed??????????????????????????????????

[35Pete]

Pete, get real. The corruption is the problem. That place is so frikkin bought it is irrepairable.

True. Bought in the Tammany Hall style of dealings. But still relies too much on gov't.

My brother-in-law is a political hack appointee in the city. He's knee deep in politics. Last March, when the big push was to save the city by anchoring a tackle shop to the waterfront (pun intended) he was in his Siesta Key rented condo with another political hack railing and bitching about how all the alphabet agencies and depts were not involved in the deal.

Can you believe that crap? Not enough local gov't agencies meddling in the deal!! And he was PISSED.

He complains that Seneca Casino is grossly undertaxed. That's his attitude. Like the Seneca's were morally bound to locate in Niagara Falls, NY and would not have considered more attractive venues had they have jacked the taxes up and forgone the breaks. These guys are in politics because they are clueless how the real world operates. They are an impediment to progress, not a catalyst. And you people keep re-electing the bastards.

When new enterprises get tax breaks to relocate he considers them to "be sucking off of the city" (ex, see Seneca). Wait a minute....is it a privilige to do business there? If that's the attitude then the city deserves to die.

Welcome to Buffalo politics, 101.

[35Pete]

This ranking, as many like this, is extremely skewed. A major reason Buffalo ranks so low is that it resides within one of the only states in the US that has never, historically, allowed municipalities expand their borders and annex surrounding populations. The wealthier populations, of course, are the ones capable of affording the larger land parcels and transportation costs of moving outside the city boundaries. Most cities in the US, at some point, have been allowed to expand their borders to incorporate those dispersing, wealthy populations. Several cities encompass entire counties. Buffalo remains one of the smallest cities in square miles in relation to its metropolitan population.

While Buffalo is certainly not one of the wealthiest cities in the nation, this study is completely inaccurate in its means to rank cities according to their wealth. Buffalo, as a metropolitan region,actually ranks in the upper echelon when it comes to its wealth in ratio to its cost of living (one of the lowest in the country).

Census bureau data can be interpreted any way that people want, but there are ways more responsible than others. This ranking is little more than a sensationalized news story.

Nothing personal. I had to groan you because this post sucked. You're assuming that if annexation were allowed that any town adjacent would in their right mind want to be annexed by the city. That's pure insanity thinking. Therefore, your comments are not relevant. In fact, and again, not trying to pick a fight, but it seems like just more excuse making for the death spiral that I see here time and again.

Why can't you Buffalonian's just admit that you are wrecking the city and it's time for a fresh, radical new perspective?

Did it ever dawn on you that the wealthier populations "got out" preciscely because of the nature of city politics? And that they don't want to be part of that mess? Surprise, you can't annex without permission. This isn't a little expansionist mother Russia that land grabs wealthier areas and then sucks them dry in order to prop up an inefficient, corrupt machine. Did it ever dawn on you that smart people left Buffalo for Amherst for a reason??????

I'd advise everyone to just get out. The city is in a death spiral. It's gasping. You guys are stuck in an old failed era that's not working, refuse to change your thinking, and the past 35 years are bearing the fruit of that idiocy. Buffalo deserves it's fate because the city doesn't "get it". Nor will they ever.

And true to WNY politics tears and kneejerking are in full force over this 30% poverty crisis. New programs will be demanded; Programs that you cannot afford. And to pay for them you'll raise taxes and fees, and tax the hell out of everything.

And next year the poverty level will be 37%. Why?

Because people don't like to be fleeced. That's why. So the remaining producers will just leave and the ratio of the non-productive to the productive will increase. How about some tough love that causes some of that 30% to seek greener pastures. Get the loadstone off of your necks. "That segment" of the population is non-value added. How about letting some of them disperse to areas that can help them instead of sacrificing the entire region for people that really don't contribute?

[35Pete]

Pete, get real. The corruption is the problem. That place is so frikkin bought it is irrepairable.

Also. I lived in Tampa, now Ft. Lauderdale and taxes were low, no state tax even, and those regions are thriving economically. And I am not talking tourism.
And we don't have universal healthcare. My little edge city in Broward Co. borders the everglades (not a tourist town) and is home to 50 major corporations. My little city of 82,000.

Same old BS. Same old unsubstantiated nonsense.

Try calling Waffle House. Maybe they'll relocate a franchise there. But I doubt it. Between city officials, the NFTA, and the pancake flipper's union they'll find Akron, NY much more economically viable.

[sabredan17]

Pete

My argument has NOTHING to do with whether or not the suburbs want to be annexed or whether that is a good idea. I'm not "assuming" anything about the preferences of populations, I'm just pointing out that it is the case in most parts of the country that cities have been able to do this, this incorporating the wealthier populations within their boundaries, while it has never happened in Buffalo. Therefore, this ranking of wealth in cities is completely inaccurate and irrelevant.

Read a little closer.

[35Pete]

Pete

My argument has NOTHING to do with whether or not the suburbs want to be annexed or whether that is a good idea. I'm not "assuming" anything about the preferences of populations, I'm just pointing out that it is the case in most parts of the country that cities have been able to do this, this incorporating the wealthier populations within their boundaries, while it has never happened in Buffalo. Therefore, this ranking of wealth in cities is completely inaccurate and irrelevant.

Read a little closer.

Failures always try to incorporate the wealthy to "pad their stats".

I love WNY. But it's anchored by a loser of a city. The towns are fine. The city is FUBAR.

[sabredan17]

Wow, Pete. Besides the fact that your opinion is obviously based upon nothing but the Buffalo news, your still not understanding my post. Most OTHER cities are the ones incorporating the wealthy suburbs within their boundaries through annexation - that doesn't happen in Buffalo, therefore the rankings are not legitimate because cities all exist under completely different circumstances.

In regards to your ignorant comments about Buffalo, next time you're in town, I would be more than happy to provide you a grand tour of this "loser of a city." I, personally, live in the Elmwood Village - recently named one of the top 10 neighborhoods in the United States, press releases will be out this Tuesday, I'll post it here. Click on the video sample at the bottom of the following link for a little taste:

http://www.fullcirclestudios2.com/SalElm.htm

anyone else who would like a tour of Buffalo, I've given many, email me - leonard.danielj@gmail.com, I'd be happy to!

[Shama-Lama Ding Dong]

Also. I lived in Tampa, now Ft. Lauderdale and taxes were low, no state tax even, and those regions are thriving economically. And I am not talking tourism.
And we don't have universal healthcare. My little edge city in Broward Co. borders the everglades (not a tourist town) and is home to 50 major corporations. My little city of 82,000.

Same old BS. Same old unsubstantiated nonsense.

Try calling Waffle House. Maybe they'll relocate a franchise there. But I doubt it. Between city officials, the NFTA, and the pancake flipper's union they'll find Akron, NY much more economically viable.

Yeah well I'm in Portland. Most livable city year after year. Thanks in part to Metro. www.metro-region.org (http://www.metro-region.org)

50 major corporations in Tampa???? Name 'em. These are F500?


No sales tax in Oregon. But we do have government. And Nike, Intel, and others....

[Shama-Lama Ding Dong]

Wow, Pete. Besides the fact that your opinion is obviously based upon nothing but the Buffalo news, your still not understanding my post. Most OTHER cities are the ones incorporating the wealthy suburbs within their boundaries through annexation - that doesn't happen in Buffalo, therefore the rankings are not legitimate because cities all exist under completely different circumstances.

In regards to your ignorant comments about Buffalo, next time you're in town, I would be more than happy to provide you a grand tour of this "loser of a city." I, personally, live in the Elmwood Village - recently named one of the top 10 neighborhoods in the United States, press releases will be out this Tuesday, I'll post it here. Click on the video sample at the bottom of the following link for a little taste:

http://www.fullcirclestudios2.com/SalElm.htm

anyone else who would like a tour of Buffalo, I've given many, email me - leonard.danielj@gmail.com, I'd be happy to!

I used to drive an AAA wrecker for Bee Gee Arco, 460 Elmwood at Hodge (now an AMPM or something like that). Taki's was across the stree, as well as the Bluebird Shoppe, Hodge Liquors, and the Fish store.

[Billsman]

Ive seen a lot of black folk hanging on the streets doin nothing. Not being racist cause I see a lot of Mexicans in the SW doing the same.

[sabredan17]

Because you decide to single out Mexicans as well doesn't make the comment not racist, buddy.

Good lord, I'm remembering why I usually don't post on these boards about anything other than sports.

[35Pete]

Yeah well I'm in Portland. Most livable city year after year. Thanks in part to Metro. www.metro-region.org (http://www.metro-region.org)

50 major corporations in Tampa???? Name 'em. These are F500?


No sales tax in Oregon. But we do have government. And Nike, Intel, and others....

I don't live in Tampa. I live in Sunrise.

Actually there are over a 100 corporations in this little town of 82K.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunrise%2C_FL

[35Pete]

Yeah well I'm in Portland. Most livable city year after year. Thanks in part to Metro. www.metro-region.org (http://www.metro-region.org)

50 major corporations in Tampa???? Name 'em. These are F500?


No sales tax in Oregon. But we do have government. And Nike, Intel, and others....


"Home to" was not meant to imply headquarters Boeuf.

[35Pete]

Wow, Pete. Besides the fact that your opinion is obviously based upon nothing but the Buffalo news, your still not understanding my post. Most OTHER cities are the ones incorporating the wealthy suburbs within their boundaries through annexation - that doesn't happen in Buffalo, therefore the rankings are not legitimate because cities all exist under completely different circumstances.

In regards to your ignorant comments about Buffalo, next time you're in town, I would be more than happy to provide you a grand tour of this "loser of a city." I, personally, live in the Elmwood Village - recently named one of the top 10 neighborhoods in the United States, press releases will be out this Tuesday, I'll post it here. Click on the video sample at the bottom of the following link for a little taste:

http://www.fullcirclestudios2.com/SalElm.htm

anyone else who would like a tour of Buffalo, I've given many, email me - leonard.danielj@gmail.com, I'd be happy to!



You need to travel a bit. Buffalo looks like East Germany in the 70's, only less asthetic. Most of the population, as evidenced by a vast majority of clueless opinions on this board about what's wrong with the area, have absolutely ZERO idea on how to rectify the situation or at least slow the bleeding. I'm not trying to be mean here. I HAD to leave Buffalo in 1990 because there was no economy and no employment worth taking. I missed it terribly for about 5 years.

You guys don't realize what you DON'T have. Time to take a hard look at what's screwed up with the region and perhaps try some radical ideas.

Here's a clue. Stop looking to government to solve the problem, and stop blaming Albany for all of your issues.

You've been asking government to solve your 35+ year economic depression. Know what? It's getting ONLY WORSE and your population is still decreasing.

Democrats are only slightly more retarded than the Republicans in that region. But you need to cut labor costs, and cut the cost of doing business in that area.

No one's clamoring to relocate a business to Buffalo. Trust me. So you'd better make it more attractive. And guess what? Even if you slash corporate rates, those companies will not relocate to an area where they cannot attract top talent. Your property and sales taxes are obscene.

You guys have some hard choices to make. Same old same old which is your comfort zone and my Bills leave in 5 years because the region can't support them.

Or some painful cost cutting, taking on unions, and telling the pols to GET OUT OF THE WAY.

I doubt anyone's got the balls to do the latter.

[sabredan17]

I've traveled quite a bit, Pete. I've done two backpacking trips throughout eastern and western Europe (including East Germany like you mention, which is largely a BEAUTIFUL place!). I've been pretty much everywhere in the lower 48 states. In fact, my brother in law lived in St. Petes/Tampa for 6 years, I visited several times. Honestly, Florida is probably my least favorite place to visit. I think you don't realize what we have in Buffalo and WNY.

Are there problems here??? Absolutely! Are there problems everyplace else, ABSOLUTELY! You obviously only know Buffalo from a suburban viewpoint reading the newspaper, you haven't a clue of what is here. I live in the fastest growing neighborhood in WNY, and its IN THE CITY!

You're saying all of these things on a complete whim, you haven't done any research. You don't know what businesses are looking to locate here or already have, you don't know what type of arts and cultural communities exist here, you don't know anything but the crappy news your relatives from back home complain about and the fact that the Bills suck. I could go on, but I have to get to the farmer's market around the corner to get my groceries for the week before I meet a friend at a sidewalk cafe (how many of those are there in highway ridden Tampa?) on Elmwood - wow, what a crappy life (and its probably going to cost me a total of about $20)

[35Pete]

I've traveled quite a bit, Pete. I've done two backpacking trips throughout eastern and western Europe (including East Germany like you mention, which is largely a BEAUTIFUL place!). I've been pretty much everywhere in the lower 48 states. In fact, my brother in law lived in St. Petes/Tampa for 6 years, I visited several times. Honestly, Florida is probably my least favorite place to visit. I think you don't realize what we have in Buffalo and WNY.

Are there problems here??? Absolutely! Are there problems everyplace else, ABSOLUTELY! You obviously only know Buffalo from a suburban viewpoint reading the newspaper, you haven't a clue of what is here. I live in the fastest growing neighborhood in WNY, and its IN THE CITY!

You're saying all of these things on a complete whim, you haven't done any research. You don't know what businesses are looking to locate here or already have, you don't know what type of arts and cultural communities exist here, you don't know anything but the crappy news your relatives from back home complain about and the fact that the Bills suck. I could go on, but I have to get to the farmer's market around the corner to get my groceries for the week before I meet a friend at a sidewalk cafe (how many of those are there in highway ridden Tampa?) on Elmwood - wow, what a crappy life (and its probably going to cost me a total of about $20)


More denial.

Two words. Focus on them:

Population Decreasing.

[imontoya]

If you take away the unfunded mandates that NYS places on the counties, you would see a huge drop in your property taxes in WNY. Spitzer talked about but let's see if he'll actually go through with it.

The counties could then focus more of their budgets on attracting new and retaining old businesses as well as lowering the tax burden.

I agree the city needs a "new radical perspective" and that is not Byron Brown.

But, 35Pete, your brother-in-law is right. The Seneca Casino is undertaxed. Not because they were given some sweetheart deal to attract them but because they don't get taxed, they're American Indians. Will it spur growth or recycle WNYers money that would ordinarily be subject to sales tax? Will it eliminate businesses that are subject to sales tax?

Erie County definately needs to re-examine itself but to say that it's only the City of Buffalo is just plain wrong. Each one of the towns cost money and just contributes to the unnecesary layers of government in WNY.

There's about 900,000 plus people in WNY and 439 elected officials. Only 24 of those are in the City.

Compare that to NYC. 8 million plus people, 248 elected officials.

Take a look at this study that came out last year if you haven't already seen it.

http://www.thecost.org/default.htm


And before we look to Florida as an example of how to spur growth, realize that Miami was right next Buffalo in those rankings.

There's definately some good things going in the city that you won't read about in the Buffalo News. People are moving back downtown and paying rents as high as 2,000/month. There's a new condo tower which has approval to begin construction across from Gates Circle with penthouses proposed for as low as $400,000 and as high as $2,000,000.

The new biotech facilities are bringing in people from outside WNY.

There's a long way to go but there's definately some cause for optimism.

[SabresFan220]

Jeez, that's a tough pill to swallow.

[35Pete]

If you take away the unfunded mandates that NYS places on the counties, you would see a huge drop in your property taxes in WNY. Spitzer talked about but let's see if he'll actually go through with it.

The counties could then focus more of their budgets on attracting new and retaining old businesses as well as lowering the tax burden.

I agree the city needs a "new radical perspective" and that is not Byron Brown.

But, 35Pete, your brother-in-law is right. The Seneca Casino is undertaxed. Not because they were given some sweetheart deal to attract them but because they don't get taxed, they're American Indians. Will it spur growth or recycle WNYers money that would ordinarily be subject to sales tax? Will it eliminate businesses that are subject to sales tax?

Erie County definately needs to re-examine itself but to say that it's only the City of Buffalo is just plain wrong. Each one of the towns cost money and just contributes to the unnecesary layers of government in WNY.

There's about 900,000 plus people in WNY and 439 elected officials. Only 24 of those are in the City.

Compare that to NYC. 8 million plus people, 248 elected officials.

Take a look at this study that came out last year if you haven't already seen it.

http://www.thecost.org/default.htm


And before we look to Florida as an example of how to spur growth, realize that Miami was right next Buffalo in those rankings.

There's definately some good things going in the city that you won't read about in the Buffalo News. People are moving back downtown and paying rents as high as 2,000/month. There's a new condo tower which has approval to begin construction across from Gates Circle with penthouses proposed for as low as $400,000 and as high as $2,000,000.

The new biotech facilities are bringing in people from outside WNY.

There's a long way to go but there's definately some cause for optimism.

Most of Miami are poor central and south american immigrants. Laborers basically. And most don't speak English. LOL!!!!

But Florida get's it. You guys don't. Come on down to the rest of Miami-Dade, Broward, or Palm Beach Counties and you too can see what a thriving economy looks like.

Until you guys see the real problem and stop blaming circumstances and/or someone else, you'll contribute to shrink and implode.

And within the decade you'll be smaller than Green Bay, WI.

You are the problem. Why? Your attitude. Honest.

You really need to get your head out of the sand. There's "been reason for optimism" in Buffalo since at least 1976, and the economic and demographic slopes have still been sharply negative regardless.

I hope the Senaca's dump you guys for a neighboring area. It'll teach you guys a lesson.

Then again it won't. You'll just have some new bs excuse and some new bs "reason for optimism".


Buffalo is a dying city. As shown that you are actually impressed by those condo prices.

[imontoya]

Most of Miami are poor central and south american immigrants. Laborers basically. And most don't speak English. LOL!!!!

But Florida get's it. You guys don't. Come on down to the rest of Miami-Dade, Broward, or Palm Beach Counties and you too can see what a thriving economy looks like.

Until you guys see the real problem and stop blaming circumstances and/or someone else, you'll contribute to shrink and implode.

And within the decade you'll be smaller than Green Bay, WI.

You are the problem. Why? Your attitude. Honest.

Thanks for the insight on Miami.

The "attitude" is one of many problems.

But to say that's all that needs to change is an over-simplification of WNY's problems.

[imontoya]

Most of Miami are poor central and south american immigrants. Laborers basically. And most don't speak English. LOL!!!!

But Florida get's it. You guys don't. Come on down to the rest of Miami-Dade, Broward, or Palm Beach Counties and you too can see what a thriving economy looks like.

Until you guys see the real problem and stop blaming circumstances and/or someone else, you'll contribute to shrink and implode.

And within the decade you'll be smaller than Green Bay, WI.

You are the problem. Why? Your attitude. Honest.

You really need to get your head out of the sand. There's "been reason for optimism" in Buffalo since at least 1976, and the economic and demographic slopes have still been sharply negative regardless.

I hope the Senaca's dump you guys for a neighboring area. It'll teach you guys a lesson.

Then again it won't. You'll just have some new bs excuse and some new bs "reason for optimism".


Buffalo is a dying city. As shown that you are actually impressed by those condo prices.

Well I read your post before more was added.

Your hostility for your hometown is strange.

I would characterize Buffalo as a dead city. That is making steps towards progress. The condo prices are an example of progression.

I hope the Seneca's dump us too.

[35Pete]

Thanks for the insight on Miami.

The "attitude" is one of many problems.

But to say that's all that needs to change is an over-simplification of WNY's problems.

No. You have to stop looking to government to hand you the solution. You have to stop being hostile to enterprise. You have to stop thinking that every non-degreed job in the region must be aligned with the Local 210 or whatever. You have to stop with all the spending and social programs.

You should be stripping your government to be lean and mean. And that does not necessarily mean consolidation (we aren't down here and we are way more successfull. That's NOT the problem).

Take on the city unions. Take down the fiefdoms. Why does the NFTA exist anyways? How about all the fluff jobs in the city? (Trust me, listening to my brother-in-law talk about "essential city jobs" that I see immediately as a justification for HIS job, I see a lot of fluff).

Tax breaks, tax cuts, lower the cost of gov't on people that might otherwise relocate. Yeah your housing is supercheap. But a substantial part of your PITI (Principle, Interest, Taxes, and Insurance) is TAXES and not PRINCIPLE.

That means less equity. So it may be somewhat cheaper to buy a house there it also means shit for long-term equity.

And for god's sake. Stop central planning. Make it ATTRACTIVE to relocate a business there. Then let the market decide what is going to settle in the region.

[35Pete]

Well I read your post before more was added.

Your hostility for your hometown is strange.

I would characterize Buffalo as a dead city. That is making steps towards progress. The condo prices are an example of progression.

I hope the Seneca's dump us too.

Not hostile. Angry.

I love the Bills and your economic demise, at the pace it is on, will cause the region to lose them within 10 years or upon Ralph's death.

It's just not economically viable.

That's why I'm alledgedly "hostile". I'm pissed at the stubbornness as well as the stupidity.

[imontoya]

You have to stop with all the spending and social programs.

You should be stripping your government to be lean and mean. And that does not necessarily mean consolidation (we aren't down here and we are way more successfull. That's NOT the problem).

Take on the city unions. Take down the fiefdoms. Why does the NFTA exist anyways? How about all the fluff jobs in the city? (Trust me, listening to my brother talk about "essential city jobs" that I see immediately as a justification for HIS job, I see a lot of fluff).

Tax breaks, tax cuts, lower the cost of gov't on people that might otherwise relocate. Yeah your housing is supercheap. But a substantial part of your PITI (Principle, Interest, Taxes, and Insurance) is TAXES and not PRINCIPLE.

That means less equity. So it may be somewhat cheaper to buy a house there it also means shit for long-term equity.

And for god's sake. Stop central planning. Make it ATTRACTIVE to relocate a business there. Then let the market decide what is going to settle in the region.

I agree. My original post was just showing you a different explanation. To make changes you have to see the problem. I thought you could use some perspective. No where did I say that City or WNY is not to blame. But the state contributes. A lot of things contribute. The global economy changed and WNY wasn't ready.

Politicians don't create jobs. They just need to make things attractive for businesses and they haven't done that here or in most of the Great Lakes region.

There's too many authorities, agencies, and services that are a drain on the economy.

I'm not looking for a silver bullet. It's going to take as long to fix as it did to wreck.

But all I did was present you with some facts and instead of addressing them you seemed hostile towards them. My apologies, I was incorrect.

[sukie]

politicians dictate the job environment however.

[35Pete]

I agree. My original post was just showing you a different explanation. To make changes you have to see the problem. I thought you could use some perspective. No where did I say that City or WNY is not to blame. But the state contributes. A lot of things contribute. The global economy changed and WNY wasn't ready.

Politicians don't create jobs. They just need to make things attractive for businesses and they haven't done that here or in most of the Great Lakes region.

There's too many authorities, agencies, and services that are a drain on the economy.

I'm not looking for a silver bullet. It's going to take as long to fix as it did to wreck.

But all I did was present you with some facts and instead of addressing them you seemed hostile towards them. My apologies, I was incorrect.

Buffalo's issues are deeper than the global economy. It was going downhill before the global economy hit.

Yes. The best thing the politicians can do to make things attractive is to cut spending, cut taxes, and cut most of their own power and jobs. Therein lies the problem. They seek the opposite. Dem or Rep in WNY.

Buffalo is the King of Featherbeading and Makework jobs. LOL.

You make some good points.

[imontoya]

Politicians don't create jobs. They just need to make things attractive for businesses and they haven't done that here or in most of the Great Lakes region.


Sukie, That's what I meant.

[35Pete]

Sukie, That's what I meant.

They'd do it best by just getting out of the way. Seriously. Or even better cutting through the BS of the gov't organizations pre-existent.

[imontoya]

They'd do it best by just getting out of the way. [/QUOTE}

Roads and sidewalks. That's all they should focus on at this point. Buffalo has enough unused infrastructure.

[QUOTE]Seriously. Or even better cutting through the BS of the gov't organizations pre-existent.
From the sounds of things, you may be supporting your bro-in-law if that happens....

[twosheds]

Not hostile. Angry.

I love the Bills and your economic demise, at the pace it is on, will cause the region to lose them within 10 years or upon Ralph's death.

It's going to happen anyway. No politician is going to turn Buffalo into the big market that suits the NFL of the future.

[35Pete]

It's going to happen anyway. No politician is going to turn Buffalo into the big market that suits the NFL of the future.

Sheds. It (Buffalo) USED to be a big market team.

That's what really frosts me.