The Great Iraq Swindle

[micknaboz]

Prepare to be nauseous. Its a long read,5 pages, but well worth a look.

Aren't privitization and private industry just grand.



The Great Iraq Swindle
How Bush Allowed an Army of For-Profit Contractors to Invade the U.S. Treasury

Operation Iraqi Freedom, it turns out, was never a war against Saddam *Hussein's Iraq. It was an invasion of the federal budget, and no occupying force in history has ever been this efficient. George W. Bush's war in the Mesopotamian desert was an experiment of sorts, a crude first take at his vision of a fully privatized American government. In Iraq the lines between essential government services and for-profit enterprises have been blurred to the point of absurdity -- to the point where wounded soldiers have to pay retail prices for fresh underwear, where modern-day chattel are imported from the Third World at slave wages to peel the potatoes we once assigned to grunts in KP, where private companies are guaranteed huge profits no matter how badly they **** things up.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/16076312/the_great_iraq_swindle

[35Pete]

Jesus Mick.

Will American history eventually look at this man, and his thugs, as perhaps thee worst elected official ANYWHERE, and at any level of government in the history of the republic, if you still can call it a Republic?

[JLB]

he's the worst.

[thegame]

Martin Van Buren.

[pmoon6]

:rofl: Rolling Stone. Isn't that the Newsmax of the left?

Jann Wenner sucks dead donkey balls.

[uppy]

I got this far then stopped because I was laughing so hard

where modern-day chattel are imported from the Third World at slave wages to peel the potatoes we once assigned to grunts in KP,

Mick,I was in the Army for over 10 years and I never peeled a patatoe.The cooks don't peel patatoes as far as I know that work has always gone to non-military workers.

The Army subs out most non-military work since the draft ended in "73"

[anEinherjer]

:rofl:

Come on mick, what the hell does the boondoggle in Iraq have to do with privatization?

[micknaboz]

:rofl:

Come on mick, what the hell does the boondoggle in Iraq have to do with privatization?

Why dont you try reading the article, instead of just making ignorant comments?

[sukie]

It's the Fruit of the Loom boondoggle.

[JLB]

oh shit!

[anEinherjer]

It's not ignorant, mick old boy.

I think it's funny that you lay it at the feet of "private industry" when to me, the problem is really that you have a government powerful enough to start such a stupid war, and then corrupt enough to set up the marvelous giveaways and stupid shit like cost plus contracting where they give even the shittiest companies 90+ scores....

Ignorant, my ass. Ignorance is blaming companies for taking advantage of a situation set up by other ignoramuses giving their government too much power.

[JLB]

we are being robbed ****ing blind FACT!!

:beers:

:bills:

it's time for football!!!!:D

[35Pete]

It's not ignorant, mick old boy.

I think it's funny that you lay it at the feet of "private industry" when to me, the problem is really that you have a government powerful enough to start such a stupid war, and then corrupt enough to set up the marvelous giveaways and stupid shit like cost plus contracting where they give even the shittiest companies 90+ scores....

Ignorant, my ass. Ignorance is blaming companies for taking advantage of a situation set up by other ignoramuses giving their government too much power.

anEin. I read it. And I AM a free marketer. But this is crazy how they are assigning no bid contracts to pals, inflated to hell, don't care how shitty the work is, or if it's even done at all.

That's NOT capitalism anEin. Not the type that you and I believe in.

[JLB]

we are being robbed ****ing blind FACT!!

:beers:

:bills:

it's time for football!!!!:D

I repeat!!!!

[uppy]

anEin. I read it. And I AM a free marketer. But this is crazy how they are assigning no bid contracts to pals, inflated to hell, don't care how shitty the work is, or if it's even done at all.

That's NOT capitalism anEin. Not the type that you and I believe in.

Bullshit Pete,its the market it costs big money to get people to work in a war
zone.Also I bet if you didn't hate Bush you would be saying the same thing
as anEin......but hate fogs the mind.

[35Pete]

Bullshit Pete,its the market it costs big money to get people to work in a war
zone.Also I bet if you didn't hate Bush you would be saying the same thing
as anEin......but hate fogs the mind.

Read the ****ing article, watch the damn video and then comment. Otherwise please :stfu:

Ignorance is one quality that really pisses me of. Especially when it's intentional.

And maybe you should read how these companies are completely ****ing over our fighting boys over there Uppy.

But then again, ignorance is bliss.

[JLB]

Bullshit Pete,its the market it costs big money to get people to work in a war
zone.Also I bet if you didn't hate Bush you would be saying the same thing
as anEin......but hate fogs the mind.

hate yup it screws with clear headed thinking.

:beers:

[35Pete]

hate yup it screws with clear headed thinking.

:beers:

Jlb. Read the article, watch the video, and see how they are ****ing over the soldiers and the private hires that support the boys.

It'll make you sick.

[uppy]

Read the ****ing article, watch the damn video and then comment. Otherwise please :stfu:

Ignorance is one quality that really pisses me of. Especially when it's intentional.

And maybe you should read how these companies are completely ****ing over our fighting boys over there Uppy.

But then again, ignorance is bliss.

I don't need to read the article there was a LIE with in the first 50 words.

It has NO credibilty

[uppy]

hate yup it screws with clear headed thinking.

:beers:

It makes you angry too.....lol

[micknaboz]

Jlb. Read the article, watch the video, and see how they are ****ing over the soldiers and the private hires that support the boys.

It'll make you sick.

Your'e wasting your breath Pete. These guys dont want to read the article, it would shatter all their illusions.

An anein your excusing these companies from any responsibility for blatantly ripping off the taxpayers is beyond the pale.

People are dying over there and all you can counter with is that its perfectly alright to rip off the govt. Thats ***ked up.

[35Pete]

Your'e wasting your breath Pete. These guys dont want to read the article, it would shatter all their illusions.

An anein your excusing these companies from any responsibility for blatantly ripping off the taxpayers is beyond the pale.

People are dying over there and all you can counter with is that its perfectly alright to rip off the govt. Thats ***ked up.

It's pretty obvious that Uppy could give one royal shit about the average GI, or the taxpayer.

As long as his fourth reich, his american roman empire is realized, he's willing to spill as much GI blood as needed, and let them get crapped on with regularity.

Personally it makes me sick.

[uppy]

It's pretty obvious that Uppy could give one royal shit about the average GI, or the taxpayer.

As long as his fourth reich, his american roman empire is realized, he's willing to spill as much GI blood as needed, and let them get crapped on with regularity.

Personally it makes me sick.

I was one of those GI's Pete and I still have friends that are and I do give
a shit about them.....what I don't give a shit about is a liberal agenda
being pimped by Rolling Stone

[JLB]

If catastrophic failure is worth billions, where's the incentive to deliver success?

There's no profit in patriotism, no cost-plus angle on common decency.

Sixty years after America liberated Europe, those are just words, and words don't pay the bills.

break this down carefully.

waste and war kinda go hand in hand.

is it ever acceptable no.

but guess ****ing what we are stuck with it no matter who is running the show.

so to point a finger is to point right back at yourself.

because you don't, won't and can't ****ing do anything about it.

both parties have this information and these facts or facsimile thereof.

so get away from the blame game.

we let this shit happen.

my million dollar response.

:beers:

[micknaboz]

I was one of those GI's Pete and I still have friends that are and I do give
a shit about them.....what I don't give a shit about is a liberal agenda
being pimped by Rolling Stone

So you still have friends who are GI's and give a shit about, just not enough to care that they're all being fleeced and screwed over by this administration and all the no bid contracts.
With friends like that.............

[uppy]

So you still have friends who are GI's and give a shit about, just not enough to care that they're all being fleeced and screwed over by this administration and all the no bid contracts.
With friends like that.............

My Buddys that are still in love this administration Mick.....and they hate
the libbys that are pimping trash

[Green Lantern]

I wonder who, besides the Generals, love Hillary and will fight for her?

[micknaboz]

If catastrophic failure is worth billions, where's the incentive to deliver success?

There's no profit in patriotism, no cost-plus angle on common decency.

Sixty years after America liberated Europe, those are just words, and words don't pay the bills.

break this down carefully.

waste and war kinda go hand in hand.

is it ever acceptable no.

but guess ****ing what we are stuck with it no matter who is running the show.

so to point a finger is to point right back at yourself.

because you don't, won't and can't ****ing do anything about it.

both parties have this information and these facts or facsimile thereof.

so get away from the blame game.

we let this shit happen.

my million dollar response.

:beers:

What BS. From the 70's on, until Bush started his WOT, there have been contracts awarded based on bid. The Bush people got rid of that, and if you bothered to read the article, then started giving out contracts based on political connections alone, with no thought for the cost.

So your typical apologist response is that everyone does it so.......But you're wrong not everyone was doing it, until the Bush administration.

Its unblievable that you guys so flippantly excuse the gross excesses and rip offs by these people.

[Green Lantern]

I think there has been an emergency of some sort for the past 5 years that has not allowed contracts to be bidded upon. There is no time to review contracts.

[uppy]

I wonder who, besides the Generals, love Hillary and will fight for her?

If She gets in we will need a draft thats a given.

[35Pete]

I think there has been an emergency of some sort for the past 5 years that has not allowed contracts to be bidded upon. There is no time to review contracts.

Indeed. Excellent point.

So cogent a point that it explains how a firehouse construction bid was given to buddies, and..after a YEAR and a HALF, is only HALF, repeat HALF complete, and the Army Corp of Engineers considers the work done so incredibly shoddy that it needs to be razed to the ground now and rebuilt.

Such is the price of urgency I guess.

My Lord. What if competitive open bidding happened? Why that project might have been delayed two months. Horrors!!!

And so what if it took 6 months for an HONEST contractor to complete, and on budget. And it didn't need to be blown up and started anew?

[Green Lantern]

If She gets in we will need a draft thats a given.

No.

She'll just hire more mercenaries, Bush will leave the phone number in the Oval Office.

[uppy]

Indeed. Excellent point.

So cogent a point that it explains how a firehouse construction bid was given to buddies, and..after a YEAR and a HALF, is only HALF, repeat HALF complete, and the Army Corp of Engineers considers the work done so incredibly shoddy that it needs to be razed to the ground now and rebuilt.

Such is the price of urgency I guess.

Sounds like a union construction job in my state.....it was called the BIG DIG
and its falling apart and leaking.

[uppy]

No.

She'll just hire more mercenaries, Bush will leave the phone number in the Oval Office.

When the going gets hard mercenaries cut and run.You need a standing
Army to do the fighting and conservatives arnt going to join with a moonbat
in the white house.

[Green Lantern]

When the going gets hard mercenaries cut and run.You need a standing
Army to do the fighting and conservatives arnt going to join with a moonbat
in the white house.

How many thousands do we have over there right now?

[JLB]

Sounds like a union construction job in my state.....it was called the BIG DIG
and its falling apart and leaking.



http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2007/09/big_dig_glue_ma.html

By John R. Ellement and Andrew Ryan, Globe Staff

A dozen employees from Powers Fasteners appeared in Suffolk Superior Court this morning as the glue supplier pleaded not guilty to an involuntary manslaughter charge stemming from the fatal ceiling collapse of the Big Dig.

Led by company president Jeffrey Powers and his three brothers, the employees came to the arraignment as a sign of solidarity for the New York company, the only firm that has been charged in connection with the July 2006 collapse that killed Milena Del Valle of Jamaica Plain.

Lawyer Max D. Stern formally entered the not guilty plea on behalf of Powers as Del Valle's husband, Angel, watched from the public gallery. The arraignment lasted five minutes and a judge sent a tentative trial date for Sept. 9, 2008. Under state law, the maximum penalty Powers could face if convicted is a $1,000 fine.

[uppy]

How many thousands do we have over there right now?

Out side contractors ? I'd say over 200,000.

But they don't fight unless attacked

[JLB]

Out side contractors ? I'd say over 200,000.

But they don't fight unless attacked

Your right you must be paying attention damn you!:D

:rockon:

:beers:

[Green Lantern]

Out side contractors ? I'd say over 200,000.

But they don't fight unless attacked

Soldiers don't fight unless attacked either, yes?

[JMNY83]

great article

[uppy]

Soldiers don't fight unless attacked either, yes?

When I was a soldier we did the attacking

[Green Lantern]

When I was a soldier we did the attacking

Wasn't the reason the US army laid seige to Fallujah a few years back because some Blackwater merc's were killed and dragged around the city?

[uppy]

Wasn't the reason the US army laid seige to Fallujah a few years back because some Blackwater merc's were killed and dragged around the city?

Yup,some of blackwater's workers were killed

[micknaboz]

contractors=mercenaries

[jimmifli]

American men and women dying by the thousands, so that Karl Marx and Adam Smith can blow each other in a Middle Eastern glory hole.

Very Poetic.

Nice to read something that has a little passion and attitude. Most news tries to report in a neutral voice, but when the stakes are this high and the corruption is this bad.... we should be angry, and so should the reporter's voice.

The first real "news" report I've read all week.

Thanks.

[anEinherjer]

Your'e wasting your breath Pete. These guys dont want to read the article, it would shatter all their illusions.

An anein your excusing these companies from any responsibility for blatantly ripping off the taxpayers is beyond the pale.

People are dying over there and all you can counter with is that its perfectly alright to rip off the govt. Thats ***ked up.

Your hate is blinding you to what I am saying. You are so tied to your assumptions about me that you think I'm excusing it, when I've said nothing of the sort.

Just please take off your glasses and read what I wrote.

I am perfectly well aware that DoD is sponsoring no-big contracts to their pals, or as I call them, "leeches". The entire set up is evil, of that I have no doubt. And Bush might have taken the lid off no-bid, but I know every gov't office that did put out a "bid" linked it closely to their buddies anyway... it's not a new phenomenon by any means.

And so I put FAR MORE blame on the system that set up the companies than I do the companies themselves. It's akin to putting out a plate of sugar candy and then blaming the bees when you get stung.




As for mercs/contractors: Even Machiavelli knew their worth....

[jimmifli]

Your hate is blinding you to what I am saying. You are so tied to your assumptions about me that you think I'm excusing it, when I've said nothing of the sort.

Just please take off your glasses and read what I wrote.

I am perfectly well aware that DoD is sponsoring no-big contracts to their pals, or as I call them, "leeches". The entire set up is evil, of that I have no doubt. And Bush might have taken the lid off no-bid, but I know every gov't office that did put out a "bid" linked it closely to their buddies anyway... it's not a new phenomenon by any means.

And so I put FAR MORE blame on the system that set up the companies than I do the companies themselves. It's akin to putting out a plate of sugar candy and then blaming the bees when you get stung.




As for mercs/contractors: Even Machiavelli knew their worth....
Corruption and waste exist in every system.

The problem is, the level that it has reached is unreal.

Arguing that it has always happened, and ignoring the scope of the problem is just stupid.

[35Pete]

I was one of those GI's Pete and I still have friends that are and I do give
a shit about them.....what I don't give a shit about is a liberal agenda
being pimped by Rolling Stone

You're all talk. If there was even a hint of this, regardless of the source, you'd go off and check it out there and elsewhere for the sake of your brothers.

But, that might reveal something that you don't want to see. And since all war is glorious, macho, and penis engorging, we can't have that, right?

Kick ass America! YEaaaaahhhhh!!!!!! Hooo Raaaah!

[jimmifli]

At the rate jlb is adding stories and talking to himself today, this thread was going to get buried. It's a very good article.

[Green Lantern]

Your hate is blinding you to what I am saying. You are so tied to your assumptions about me that you think I'm excusing it, when I've said nothing of the sort.

Just please take off your glasses and read what I wrote.

I am perfectly well aware that DoD is sponsoring no-big contracts to their pals, or as I call them, "leeches". The entire set up is evil, of that I have no doubt. And Bush might have taken the lid off no-bid, but I know every gov't office that did put out a "bid" linked it closely to their buddies anyway... it's not a new phenomenon by any means.

And so I put FAR MORE blame on the system that set up the companies than I do the companies themselves. It's akin to putting out a plate of sugar candy and then blaming the bees when you get stung.




As for mercs/contractors: Even Machiavelli knew their worth....

Aquisitiveness, for Locke, is 'rational self-interest, rightly understood'. Avarice is an unbalanced desire for wealth at any cost.

I do not blame bees for seeking honey but people should work off some higher level of awareness, I think.

[anEinherjer]

One would hope, aqua.


Corruption and waste exist in every system.

The problem is, the level that it has reached is unreal.

Arguing that it has always happened, and ignoring the scope of the problem is just stupid.

I'm not advocating ignoring it, am I? I am simply not surprised, is all. Like all good government activities, it just grows and grows until the populace decides it can't take any more.

But perhaps Locke's (and aqua's) hope for humanity is wrong. All human activity to me appears to be based on incentives. Right now they're ****ed up pretty good. Sorry if my interest in the story is less emotional than some.

[jimmifli]

If you believe the story to be true and aren't angry, you aren't much of a citizen.

[JLB]

At the rate jlb is adding stories and talking to himself today, this thread was going to get buried. It's a very good article.

I'm slowing down! :rockon:

[г]

Wheeeeeeerrrrre's the outrage ? LOL

[jimmifli]

Wheeeeeeerrrrre's the outrage ? LOL
yep. But this time its not the usual two bit trumped up steaming pile of dog shit.

[35Pete]

Wheeeeeeerrrrre's the outrage ? LOL

Go see "The Big Dig" thread where they attempt to neutralize this national embarrassment by pointing to a union **** up and then saying "See, They Do It Too!!!".

It's goddamned shameful a tactic, it really is. Tells me that they DON'T CARE!

[uppy]

Go see "The Big Dig" thread where they attempt to neutralize this national embarrassment by pointing to a union **** up and then saying "See, They Do It Too!!!".

It's goddamned shameful a tactic, it really is. Tells me that they DON'T CARE!

No Pete Its a Fact......don't tell me you have become PRO-UNION now ?

[uppy]

You moonbats can pimp this thread but its a non-starter

[micknaboz]

You moonbats can pimp this thread but its a non-starter

you lose !

[35Pete]

No Pete Its a Fact......don't tell me you have become PRO-UNION now ?

Did I say that?

Why not stick to the main point?

Where is your loyalty. To expansionism or to the decent treatment of your fellow soldiers?

[uppy]

You're all talk. If there was even a hint of this, regardless of the source, you'd go off and check it out there and elsewhere for the sake of your brothers.

But, that might reveal something that you don't want to see. And since all war is glorious, macho, and penis engorging, we can't have that, right?

Kick ass America! YEaaaaahhhhh!!!!!! Hooo Raaaah!

Why do I need to read the same old talking points that have been pimped
over and over ?

[35Pete]

Why do I need to read the same old talking points that have been pimped
over and over ?

Like I said.. You don't care.

They are expendable. Afterall, War is hell.

[uppy]

Like I said.. You don't care.

They are expendable. Afterall, War is hell.

I say its Nazi Aliens on orders from Chenron Uberlords.

and you thought this was just a "Worldwide" Conspiracy to steal your "rights?"
You're not thinking "Big Picture" here. Wait until Bu$hCo sends in the Plebes from Uranus to suck your brain out of your skull using huge Cranial Inhalers made exclusivly by Haliburton from a no bid contract.

hahahahahahahaha

[micknaboz]

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[micknaboz]

In the days before the war almost five years ago, the Pentagon estimated that it would cost about $50 billion. Democratic staff members in Congress largely agreed. Lawrence Lindsey, a White House economic adviser, was a bit more realistic, predicting that the cost could go as high as $200 billion, but President Bush fired him in part for saying so.

These estimates probably would have turned out to be too optimistic even if the war had gone well. Throughout history, people have typically underestimated the cost of war, as William Nordhaus, a Yale economist, has pointed out.

But the deteriorating situation in Iraq has caused the initial predictions to be off the mark by a scale that is difficult to fathom. The operation itself — the helicopters, the tanks, the fuel needed to run them, the combat pay for enlisted troops, the salaries of reservists and contractors, the rebuilding of Iraq — is costing more than $300 million a day, estimates Scott Wallsten, an economist in Washington.

That translates into a couple of billion dollars a week and, over the full course of the war, an eventual total of $700 billion in direct spending.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/business/17leonhardt.html?ex=1326690000&en=7f221bfce7a6408c&ei=5090

[Green Lantern]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/business/17leonhardt.html?ex=1326690000&en=7f221bfce7a6408c&ei=5090

We can afford it.