Mary Tillman - "No More Smokescreens"

[35Pete]

"By making up these false stories you are diminishing their true heroism"

"To write these glorious (false) tales, is really a disservice to the nation".

Mary Tillman - Mother of possibly assassinated US soldier Pat Tillman.

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[35Pete]

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Callousness. No other word for it.

[35Pete]

They lie to us ALL the time.

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[35Pete]

Our troops are living and experiencing enough of a nightmare to not be ****ed with by the organization that they serve under.

This makes me sick.

[35Pete]

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More evidence of the psyops performed by the army and the gov't on the American public and the way they use and stain the honor of brave men and women for their own gain.

For you puppets that dismiss this stuff out of hand, I accuse YOU of not supporting the troops. You support the army and the gov't. I support the troops. They are my countrymen. They've been cleverly duped and now are used for propanda, cannon fodder, and advancement of powerful corporate and industrial interests. Yet you crap on them on a daily basis with statements like "we don't need to know the truth".

[35Pete]

She calls her story "propaganda".

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[Gilly]

when you have to respond to yourself 4-5 times it means the story is old news thats been hashed 100 times out here and no one cares..

[Shakespeare]

"By making up these false stories you are diminishing their true heroism"

"To write these glorious (false) tales, is really a disservice to the nation".

Mary Tillman

Those are great quotes. Maybe you should read them again.

[anEinherjer]

Holy shit, enough with the Tillman crap. how many threads do we need about a guy who wasn't even a Bill?

[nehemiah]

:rofl:

logical fallacies abound... and, for once, it's not pete making them!

[г]

I'm just a Bill
Yes I'm only a Bill
And I'm sitting here on Capital Hill...

[JLB]

Holy shit, enough with the Tillman crap. how many threads do we need about a guy who wasn't even a Bill?

just one more for shits and giggles.

[JLB]

just one more for shits and giggles.

i started a more serious thread.

testimony being given hopefully will lead to some real answers and not all this speculation.

time to hear the truth hopefully.

[35Pete]

Holy shit, enough with the Tillman crap. how many threads do we need about a guy who wasn't even a Bill?

New information anEin. I'll keep pounding away at certain themes ad infinitum as new information becomes available. Hadn't seen these clips here so I assume a lot of others haven't either.

I know the head in the sand crowd doesn't even bother to watch them. But maybe there are a few that can deduct some conclusions from them.

[35Pete]

i started a more serious thread.

testimony being given hopefully will lead to some real answers and not all this speculation.

time to hear the truth hopefully.

What is not serious about Congressional investigations? Is this some kind of sick joke or something?

[uppy]

New information anEin. I'll keep pounding away at certain themes ad infinitum as new information becomes available. Hadn't seen these clips here so I assume a lot of others haven't either.

I know the head in the sand crowd doesn't even bother to watch them. But maybe there are a few that can deduct some conclusions from them.


I for one am getting sick of seeing moonbat youtubes posted,you people cant make a point of your own? And those of you that post the worthless youtubes have the nerve to tell people that disagree with the message "that they are using talking points" the hypocricy is laughable

LMAO

BTW,Shiva I liked the youtubes from Iraq you posted :D

[JLB]

What is not serious about Congressional investigations? Is this some kind of sick joke or something?

who shot him Pete?

[Angus]

when you have to respond to yourself 4-5 times it means the story is old news thats been hashed 100 times out here and no one cares..

Some people need the truth screamed at them over and over and over again until their capacity for self delusion is finally overcome.

The first time I heard the phrase "worst administration in history", I thought it was hyperbole. Instead, it is a colossal understatement.

[Angus]

I for one am getting sick of seeing moonbat youtubes posted,you people cant make a point of your own? And those of you that post the worthless youtubes have the nerve to tell people that disagree with the message "that they are using talking points" the hypocricy is laughable

LMAO

BTW,Shiva I liked the youtubes from Iraq you posted :D

This is what you are reduced to? Whining about posts that iritate you? I guess that beats trying to figure out a way to defend Gonzo, Bush, Rove, Cheney or this ruinious war.

[uppy]

This is what you are reduced to? Whining about posts that iritate you? I guess that beats trying to figure out a way to defend Gonzo, Bush, Rove, Cheney or this ruinious war.

I see no need to defend Mr Bush,Mr Cheney or Mr.Rove,in fact we
should prase them for the job they're doing for the Country.

[35Pete]

I for one am getting sick of seeing moonbat youtubes posted,you people cant make a point of your own? And those of you that post the worthless youtubes have the nerve to tell people that disagree with the message "that they are using talking points" the hypocricy is laughable

LMAO

BTW,Shiva I liked the youtubes from Iraq you posted :D

You don't make any points Uppy. I post video and then I comment on it once someone intelligent engages or a moron attacks.

I don't care what you are sick of. My goal is show that your viewpoints are so absurd, hypermacho, intellectually vapid, and generally dangerous so that when you opine, people usually have the first reaction of thinking the exact opposite. I'm not trying to convert you. No, you're too far brainwashed. I'm merely using you.

Now. Is Mary Tillman lying? Is she full of shit? Don't tell me "she's grieving" or "godless". That patronizing shit towards her will get you both barrels in here.

And how about Jessica? Is she lying about her story of what ACTUALLY happened?

See, I wait for people to engage. And now you did. So. What's the answers?

[slowpokemcgee]

I see no need to defend Mr Bush,Mr Cheney or Mr.Rove,in fact we
should prase them for the job they're doing for the Country.

You really are something. Can't you take your own advise and think for yourself? Or is your head so far up BushCo's ass that it's too late?

[uppy]

Now. Is Mary Tillman lying? Is she full of shit? Don't tell me "she's grieving" or "godless". That patronizing shit towards her will get you both barrels in here.





The fact that they "still have questions" does not confer any legitimacy to them. The Tillman's are, at best, obtuse. At worst, they're complete idiots who are allowing themselves to be manipulated to further a partisan political agenda.You want to talk about "patronizing shit " ? the fact is you have been
pissing on her Sons grave for days now.....or is that hypocricy you know,
using it for the big agenda (talking points)

[35Pete]

The fact that they "still have questions" does not confer any legitimacy to them. The Tillman's are, at best, obtuse. At worst, they're complete idiots who are allowing themselves to be manipulated to further a partisan political agenda.You want to talk about "patronizing shit " ? the fact is you have been
pissing on her Sons grave for days now.....or is that hypocricy you know,
using it for the big agenda (talking points)

You have to be a really sick person to state something like this. I am contemptous of you. This is disgusting.

[uppy]

You really are something. Can't you take your own advise and think for yourself? Or is your head so far up BushCo's ass that it's too late?


I think Mr.Bush is a Great Prez and you don't, I respect that and I don't
tell you your head is up your ass.The problem you libbys have is hate and
that keeps you from having a open mind....then when facts are stated
the insults start.

life is good

[35Pete]

I think Mr.Bush is a Great Prez and you don't, I respect that and I don't
tell you your head is up your ass.The problem you libbys have is hate and
that keeps you from having a open mind....then when facts are stated
the insults start.

life is good

Don't confuse loyalty with the ability to think.

You don't think. You an automaton that predictably takes one side and one side only.

Your loyalty is the LAST thing that you should be proud of.

[JLB]

Don't confuse loyalty with the ability to think.

You don't think. You an automaton that predictably takes one side and one side only.

Your loyalty is the LAST thing that you should be proud of.

are you not taking one side?

[shiva2999]

I think Mr.Bush is a Great Prez and you don't, I respect that and I don't tell you your head is up your ass.The problem you libbys have is hate and
that keeps you from having a open mind


:rofl:

The poster boy for cognitive dissonance.

He can say one thing in one sentence and say something completely contradictory in the next.

All with a straight face.

[JLB]

:rofl:

The poster boy for cognitive dissonance.

He can say one thing in one sentence and say something completely contradictory in the next.

All with a straight face.

you are good at it.

[uppy]

You have to be a really sick person to state something like this. I am contemptous of you. This is disgusting.

Why do the Tillman's or cindy sheehan have a bigger soap box then "Tommy Doe's " Mom who laid her Son to rest as well......its called a political agenda.

3000 Troops have gave there all in this war....and the two moonbat Mom's should be given more respect then the rest all put toghter?

LMAO

[35Pete]

are you not taking one side?

Show me where I fit into either the Democratic or Republican camps? Show me where I fit into either the Liberal or Conservative camps?

Don't confuse taking a position with taking a side. I don't trust this administration, the same one that I voted for TWICE. The lies have been proven over and over and over and over again.

Now we have a coverup. Not once, but twice.

I'd say my suspicions are quite reasonable. I don't trust "their" story. Whatever they say you can sure as hell bet that it's the last thing from the truth.

[35Pete]

:rofl:

The poster boy for cognitive dissonance.

He can say one thing in one sentence and say something completely contradictory in the next.

All with a straight face.

Holy crap. That's a really embarrassing callout. :rofl:

[JLB]

Show me where I fit into either the Democratic or Republican camps? Show me where I fit into either the Liberal or Conservative camps?

Don't confuse taking a position with taking a side. I don't trust this administration, the same one that I voted for TWICE. The lies have been proven over and over and over and over again.

Now we have a coverup. Not once, but twice.

I'd say my suspicions are quite reasonable. I don't trust "their" story. Whatever they say you can sure as hell bet that it's the last thing from the truth.

show me the video of Rumsfeld eating Dennis K. alive I missed that one.

all are negative show one with another viewpoint that would be fair.

you claim balance show it!!

[35Pete]

Why do the Tillman's or cindy sheehan have a bigger soap box then "Tommy Doe's " Mom who laid her Son to rest as well......its called a political agenda.

3000 Troops have gave there all in this war....and the two moonbat Mom's should be given more respect then the rest all put toghter?

LMAO

Cindy's an opprotunist that started out well intentioned and then let the media and society get to her. The Tillmans just want answers, that's all. They want the truth.

[JLB]

Cindy's an opprotunist that started out well intentioned and then let the media and society get to her. The Tillmans just want answers, that's all. They want the truth.

they are getting it.

[uppy]

:rofl:

The poster boy for cognitive dissonance.

He can say one thing in one sentence and say something completely contradictory in the next.

All with a straight face.

Shiva,you have not answered one question about your premise on this subject
in three threads.....does that make you an idiot ?

Pete has been running from Shakespeare one question for 4 days.....lol

life is good

[35Pete]

show me the video of Rumsfeld eating Dennis K. alive I missed that one.

all are negative show one with another viewpoint that would be fair.

you claim balance show it!!

Jlb. You're a smart guy but sometimes when you contort shit I feel like you are intentionally acting retarded. I don't follow a party line. Uppy and you do. You are good little UI's that repeat what you are told.

Hmm. On issues where you and I agree on and the left does not do you expect me to present both sides?

I thought so. Stop posting moronic stuff. That was a really stupid statement.

[35Pete]

Shiva,you have not answered one question about your premise on this subject
in three threads.....does that make you an idiot ?

Pete has been running from Shakespeare one question for 4 days.....lol

life is good

Shakes can continue to ask questions that the below 75 IQ crowd find completely reasonable. The question is stupid and has no meaning.

[35Pete]

Shiva,you have not answered one question about your premise on this subject
in three threads.....does that make you an idiot ?

Pete has been running from Shakespeare one question for 4 days.....lol

life is good

I think he's making you look like a jackass. There is another reason why people get cantankerous. Contempt. When you lose the respect of your debater and he thinks you're a jerk he tends to treat you less than cordial. In other words "we're not pals". That's why Uppy. I think that's why he's even making the effort to make you look like a jackass. That and he's using you. Or it's good sport. I dunno. One of those.

[uppy]

Shakes can continue to ask questions that the below 75 IQ crowd find completely reasonable. The question is stupid and has no meaning.

No you have no answer Pete, sorry.

[35Pete]

they are getting it.



They lied once.
They lied twice.
Now the same liars are up before congress lying again.

And you say the Tillmans are getting the truth?

That's not an illogical deduction jlb. That's by definition insanity.

[35Pete]

No you have no answer Pete, sorry.

He can ask it for 6 days. The question is stupid.

[uppy]

Jlb. You're a smart guy but sometimes when you contort shit I feel like you are intentionally acting retarded. I don't follow a party line. Uppy and you do. You are good little UI's that repeat what you are told.

Hmm. On issues where you and I agree on and the left does not do you expect me to present both sides?

I thought so. Stop posting moronic stuff. That was a really stupid statement.

JLB,Just post what Pete and the moonbats want to hear and they will stop
insulting you.It's the old lawyer's trick. When you can't attack the facts, go after the witness.

LMAO

[JLB]

Jlb. You're a smart guy but sometimes when you contort shit I feel like you are intentionally acting retarded. I don't follow a party line. Uppy and you do. You are good little UI's that repeat what you are told.

Hmm. On issues where you and I agree on and the left does not do you expect me to present both sides?

I thought so. Stop posting moronic stuff. That was a really stupid statement.

this whole thing has nothing to do with party you paint a murder cover up and it appears to be bullshit so far on that front.

more still to be learned here but it seems we should not bury the facts with the dead.

his death looks like an horrible accident certainly not a planned execution which some here are attempting very poorly I might add to paint.

was it ****ed up you bet but murder cover up you got a long way to go.

I have said you don't follow a party line and I stand by that statement.

In this case you seem to be in a hurry to convict somebody of an intentional murder so far that's a little too far out for me to respect.

****ed up is a better description of what happened here from what I've read and seen testified to so far.

[uppy]

I think he's making you look like a jackass.

Of Course you do,make sure you and gibby keep the new Daddy happy
with you


hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha

[shiva2999]

Shiva,you have not answered one question about your premise on this subject in three threads.....

I don't answer stupid and insincere questions.

Here's a serious one for you Uppy.

Did Al Capone have people killed?

[uppy]

He can ask it for 6 days. The question is stupid.



the old lawyer's trick. When you can't attack the facts, go after the witness.

[uppy]

I don't answer stupid and insincere questions.

Here's a serious one for you Uppy.

Did Al Capone have people killed?

I don't know what big al did,was he sent to jail for killing people Shiva ?

[35Pete]

the old lawyer's trick. When you can't attack the facts, go after the witness.

It's not a sincere question Uppy. It's really no different then finding a man shot dead in the street with the same gunshot wound, and then saying "who shot him? who shot him?, and if you can't give a name then the claim is made that it's probably a suicide.

That kind of illogic I can't answer.

Now. Is it murder? We won't definitively know until someone performs an OPEN investigation (good luck with that. No one whitewashes better than the gov't).

But if it's not Uppy, then answer me this: Why did the gov't lie about the investigation not once, but twice?

[shiva2999]

I don't know what big al did,was he sent to jail for killing people Shiva ?

As a matter of fact he wasn't Uppy.

Do you know what he was sent away for?

[JLB]

As a matter of fact he wasn't Uppy.

Do you know what he was sent away for?

taxes?

[shiva2999]

taxes?

Yup.

I guess all those allegations of him having people whacked were just irresponsible accusations.

[uppy]

[QUOTE=35Pete;1723591]But if it's not Uppy, then answer me this: Why did the gov't lie about the investigation not once, but twice?

You must not read, I answered this days ago.....the kool-aid is strong this week I see, or is it the youtube talking points ?

Yes, there certainly appears to have been a breakdown in communications. You have to understand that the Pentagon is not the all seeing Eye of Sauron. The only thing the Pentagon knows about what's happening in Asscrack, Afghanistan is what they are told by the units on the ground.

It really isn't too tough to understand what happened. It was a totally messed up mission for a good many different reasons. The local unit went into CYA mode, the Pentagon ran with the initial story and then found themselves in a cleft stick of their own cutting once the facts came out shortly afterwards.

The report released last March does a good job of detailing what broke down during the investigative process and who ought to pranged for it. Some of the lower level troops have been disciplined for their roles in preparing this

But then agian Pete you have never been in the Army so you have a better
understanding on what goes on then people that have been there..you have
seen youtube ...lol

[uppy]

As a matter of fact he wasn't Uppy.

Do you know what he was sent away for?

I know what you where trying to get at and my answer will always
be the same.....I did my job....nothing more nothing less.

[35Pete]

But if it's not Uppy, then answer me this: Why did the gov't lie about the investigation not once, but twice?

You must not read, I answered this days ago.....the kool-aid is strong this week I see, or is it the youtube talking points ?



But then agian Pete you have never been in the Army so you have a better
understanding on what goes on then people that have been there..you have
seen youtube ...lol

So you're saying that the Pentagon in inept with it's investigations? That it can't interview a unit and find an inconsistency in their statements? That they just took their word for it with the death of the most famous soldier of the war? This wasn't just any regular GI. This guy's death was going to lead off CNN at 6 pm.

Jesus Uppy. Law enforcement investigators do that all the time with amazing success. All those guys had better have had 140+ IQ's to fool a good investigative questioner. Because I guar-an-tee you with individual interviews they'd have found the inconsistencies.

[JLB]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/01/tillman.probe/index.html

Rumsfeld expressed his condolences to Tillman's family and said "the handling of the circumstances could only have added to the pain of losing a loved one."

Rumsfeld testified that he didn't recall precisely when he learned of Tillman's death, or the possibility that it was the result of fratricide. Watch Rumsfeld testify there was no cover-up »

Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Maryland, asked Rumsfeld how he could not have known that Tillman was killed by American troops.

"You're talking about an institution of something like 3 million people -- active duty, reserve, guard, civilians, contractors," Rumsfeld said. "There are so many things going on in that department in any given year. ... It's like a city of 3 million people. It's not possible for someone to know all the things that are going on."

[uppy]

Law enforcement investigators work in combat zones ?

hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah

[Shakespeare]

Shakes can continue to ask questions that the below 75 IQ crowd find completely reasonable. The question is stupid and has no meaning.

He can ask it for 6 days. The question is stupid.

Who pulled the trigger, and why, is 'stupid'? Who gave the order, if an order was actually given, is 'stupid'?

You're making an accusation of a crime in which you've spelled out a motive, but simultaneously declare that the perpetrator, the co-conspirators, and the opportunity are 'irrelevant'?

Do you really want the truth, or just confirmation of your suspicions?

I think he's making you look like a jackass. There is another reason why people get cantankerous. Contempt. When you lose the respect of your debater and he thinks you're a jerk he tends to treat you less than cordial. In other words "we're not pals". That's why Uppy. I think that's why he's even making the effort to make you look like a jackass. That and he's using you. Or it's good sport. I dunno. One of those.

Uppy has the right to say what he wants to say, when he wants to say it. Whether or not I agree with him or support his views are irrelevant.

It's not a sincere question Uppy. It's really no different then finding a man shot dead in the street with the same gunshot wound, and then saying "who shot him? who shot him?, and if you can't give a name then the claim is made that it's probably a suicide.

That kind of illogic I can't answer.

Now. Is it murder? We won't definitively know until someone performs an OPEN investigation (good luck with that. No one whitewashes better than the gov't).

But if it's not Uppy, then answer me this: Why did the gov't lie about the investigation not once, but twice?

The claim is made that there isn't enough evidence to prove whether it's murder, or an accident.

I don't answer stupid and insincere questions.

Here's a serious one for you Uppy.

Did Al Capone have people killed?

Yup.

I guess all those allegations of him having people whacked were just irresponsible accusations.

I guess all those other incidents of soldiers being killed by friendly fire were cover-ups by the federal government to disguise pre-meditated murder.

[35Pete]

Law enforcement investigators work in combat zones ?

hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah

Is being obtuse a prerequisite around here? LOL

The most famous soldier of the war dies, you'd think the pentagon would send a few people in country to check it out and make sure they get their story straight.

Like I said. Quit being obtuse.

[shiva2999]

I guess all those other incidents of soldiers being killed by friendly fire were cover-ups by the federal government to disguise pre-meditated murder.

Don't be ridiculous.

We are talking about this particular situation.

If you want to argue that the case can't be judged to have been proved beyond a reasonable doubt, you are free to do so.

But to deny that there is a case is just playing stupid and uses the assumption that everyone who has ever committed a crime has been proved to have committed a crime.

Which is stupid and unworthy of discussion.

[Shakespeare]

Don't be ridiculous.

We are talking about this particular situation.

If you want to argue that the case can't be judged to have been proved beyond a reasonable doubt, you are free to do so.

But to deny that there is a case is just playing stupid and uses the assumption that everyone who has ever committed a crime has been proved to have committed a crime.

Which is stupid and unworthy of discussion.

You're the one that made the asinine comments regarding Al Capone.

If you don't want to play that game, don't make the first move.

You think have motive, but no suspect, no co-conspirators, no opportunity and that's enough for you to convict.

[Shakespeare]

Third-rate psychics make a pretty good living throwing shit at a wall and hoping something sticks. You really should consider a career change.

[shiva2999]

You're the one that made the asinine comments regarding Al Capone.

If you don't want to play that game, don't make the first move.

You think have motive, but no suspect, no co-conspirators, no opportunity and that's enough for you to convict.

Huh?

[shiva2999]

Third-rate psychics make a pretty good living throwing shit at a wall and hoping something sticks. You really should consider a career change.

Whatever you say sport.

[JLB]

Whatever you say sport.

your getting tired young man.