Benoit = scumbag

[sukie]

No matter how you slice it.. He's a scumbag and didn't deserve the tribute.

A coward and a twisted %$#@* to kill his kid and wife. There is no excuse for this . Period.

[emiller1181]

yea, its f<b></b>ucked up for sure.

The WWE, based in Stamford, Conn., issued a statement Tuesday evening saying steroids "were not and could not be related to the cause of death."

yea, my ass



In an interview with ESPN.com on Tuesday, Ballard indicated that the boy had needle marks in his arms. The district attorney said he believed that the boy had been given growth hormones for some time because the family considered him undersized.

also really f'ed up, this man had to be really screwed up. maybe roids didnt have a direct effect on the killings/death, but they sure fu<b></b>cked him up bad and made him crazy

[Sabres244]

Scumbag indeed. No excuse to kill anybody, and for what reason?

[sukie]

I still can't believe he off'ed his kid. Wives can piss anyone off.. BIGTIME but to kill the child that came from your own nutsack is insane.

[gilchristfan]

I still can't believe he off'ed his kid. Wives can piss anyone off.. BIGTIME but to kill the child that came from your own nutsack is insane.


well, yeah, strangling your wife and suffocating your 7 year old won't put you on too many A lists.

It wasn't fun explaining what happened to my kids. They just started watching wrestling this year, and he was one of the guys who was at the show I took them to. He was a good guy to them.

The best I could do was call it a steroid induced hallucination. (it may have, it might not have). I just described it as having a nightmare while you're awake, and that he probably didn't have any control over what he was doing.

I don't know if they really believed it. It was the best I could come up with.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't a little scared of me right now, using the "if he can do something like that, anyone can" logic.

[sukie]

Never heard of a Steroid induced hallucination... He's obviously been on them for a decade and a half

[smashingt2312]

I really did like him as a wrestler, but this is just unspeakable, total scumbag.

[gilchristfan]

Never heard of a Steroid induced hallucination... He's obviously been on them for a decade and a half

From the little I've read, steroids can induce hallucinations.

for example.

http://www.drrichardhall.com/steroid.htm

Its the best I could come up with.

[D34dm4n]

gil im kinda in your boat, i gotta tell my kid brother at somepoint what really happened and i mean this kid loves wrestling, benoit was one of his idols. how do you tell a kid that his idol flipped shit and killed his immediate family?

[Carl J. Ironsides]

It's a little bit like the O.J. Simpson situation, isn't it? Both were idols to some people, and something like this happens, putting those folks at a loss. Stunning, indeed. I was a wrestling fan in the late '90s and didn't like Benoit's character, but he seemed like a good guy in real life. How wrong I was.

[Wing Eater]

yea, its f<b></b>ucked up for sure.



yea, my ass




also really f'ed up, this man had to be really screwed up. maybe roids didnt have a direct effect on the killings/death, but they sure fu<b></b>cked him up bad and made him crazy

I read a report on prowrestlingtorch.com where someone said his kid had a disease that caused him to be undersized and mentally disabled, and he may have needed those injections. But who the hell knows what went on in that household...

[Darksyde]

As far as the steroids go, they say he was tested in April and came up clean. Which only means that his f'd up head is too blame for this and not 'roids.

[dogginbox]

As far as the steroids go, they say he was tested in April and came up clean. Which only means that his f'd up head is too blame for this and not 'roids.

...no it just means he was able to beat the test.

i think after everything that has come out in this case the thing that i find most interesting is in the tribute show on mon. night when triple h mentioned that "benoit was the kinda guy that demanded respect."

it sounds to me like benoit was the kinda guy who was wound a little too tight.

...and gil i would just tell your kid that this is what pro-longed use of steroids can do. though this situation may be different it wont necassarilly be a lie.

i dont think your child should be walking around thinking at anytime you or people close to him could snap.

this situation has a lot more factors going on than a sane man just snapping at the drop of a hat.

i dont think "he just snapped", i dont think "he planned it", but i do think this is something that was just building up and came to a head.

[sukie]

From the little I've read, steroids can induce hallucinations.

for example.

http://www.drrichardhall.com/steroid.htm

Its the best I could come up with.

Yeah but that seems to be Prednisone which is not a physical enhancer

[pmoon6]

Yeah but that seems to be Prednisone which is not a physical enhancerYou're correct. Prednisone is a corticosteroid. Much different from anabolic steroids.

It's not hard to beat a drug test, especially if you know it's coming. Any of the testosterone esters will wash in about two weeks. The orals in about 72 hours. Lasix is a diuretic and is commonly used to wash the system at an accelerated rate. The one steroid that drug tested athletes have to stay away from is Deca Durabolin. It's metabolites can show up after a year.

Just because anabolics were found in the house doesn't necessarily mean it was steroid induced psychosis or "roid rage". You don't know the frequency of Benoit's use. Most athletes cycle the drugs. 8 weeks on and 8 weeks (or longer) off. The guys that get on and stay on are the ones that run into psychological problems. It also depends on what he was stacking. Some pro bodybuilders are known to stack as many as 20 different compounds, including HGH and insulin. If he was just using a couple, I would say roid rage was unlikely, but any drug affects different people differently.

I would wait for the toxicology report before I drew a conclusion.

[dilbert]

Their drug testing is a joke. The acceptable levels are way higher than Olympic athletes.

[gilchristfan]

Yeah but that seems to be Prednisone which is not a physical enhancer

Oh, all right then

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66

(about 2/3 down)

Su et al.,^{11 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259211)} in a placebo-controlled prospective trial, foundthat anabolic steroids affect mood and behavior at both lowand high doses, with irritability, mood swings, violent feelings,anger, and hostility occurring in normal volunteers with nopredisposing Axis I or II pathology. Hannan et al.^{12 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259212)} showedhigh scores of "overt hostility" and "resentmental aggression"on the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory subscalesof normal volunteers who received androgens for 6 weeks. A recentrandomized, controlled, double-blind study by Yates et al.,in which the researchers administered testosterone cypionateto healthy men between the ages of 21 and 40, revealed similarfindings to both studies just mentioned.^{13 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259213)}
These conclusions confirmed the earlier reports by Pope andKatz,^{14 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259214),15 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259215)}^{16 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259216)} and Yates et al.,^{17 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259217)} who observedincreased hostility, anxiety, aggression, and depression, aswell as full affective syndromes, in athletes and bodybuilderswho used steroids at varying doses. Case reports of psychosismanifested as delusions of reference and visual and auditoryhallucinations have been described,^{18 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259218)} as well as acute schizophrenicepisodes,^{19 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259219)} delirium,^{20 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259220)} mania,^{12 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259212)} and hypomania.^{13 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259213),21 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259221)} Perry et al.,

[gilchristfan]

...and gil i would just tell your kid that this is what pro-longed use of steroids can do. though this situation may be different it wont necassarilly be a lie.

i dont think your child should be walking around thinking at anytime you or people close to him could snap.

The discussion started with my 7 year old's question, "how could he kill his son if he loved him?" No easy answers to that one, especially when its someone he admired. (I did make it clear that its like a movie or TV, they are playing a part, and you really don't know what they are like in real life).

That was the best I could do, that for some reason, he completely lost the ability to think, that he could have been having a nightmare while he was awake. Steroids seemed to be the best answer, I don't know how I could have explained something like jealous husband syndrome.


this situation has a lot more factors going on than a sane man just snapping at the drop of a hat.

i dont think "he just snapped", i dont think "he planned it", but i do think this is something that was just building up and came to a head.

Probably, I doubt they'll ever know. And I don't think mere rage explains it totally anyways, considering he did this over the course of a day, rather than a few minutes. There was at least some deliberation going on in his mind. What that deliberation was is anyone's guess.

[dilbert]

Chris Nowinski has raised the possibility that multiple concussions might have had an effect .

[Hockeystud1414]

I really did like him as a wrestler, but this is just unspeakable, total scumbag.

agreed 100 percent!

[Carl J. Ironsides]

Chris Nowinski has raised the possibility that multiple concussions might have had an effect .

I don't buy that reason. Lots of people -- Tim Connolly, for instance -- suffer multiple concussions. I don't see them snapping and murdering their wife and kid.

[pmoon6]

Oh, all right then

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66

(about 2/3 down)

Su et al.,^{11 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259211)} in a placebo-controlled prospective trial, foundthat anabolic steroids affect mood and behavior at both lowand high doses, with irritability, mood swings, violent feelings,anger, and hostility occurring in normal volunteers with nopredisposing Axis I or II pathology. Hannan et al.^{12 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259212)} showedhigh scores of "overt hostility" and "resentmental aggression"on the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory subscalesof normal volunteers who received androgens for 6 weeks. A recentrandomized, controlled, double-blind study by Yates et al.,in which the researchers administered testosterone cypionateto healthy men between the ages of 21 and 40, revealed similarfindings to both studies just mentioned.^{13 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259213)}
These conclusions confirmed the earlier reports by Pope andKatz,^{14 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259214),15 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259215)}^{16 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259216)} and Yates et al.,^{17 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259217)} who observedincreased hostility, anxiety, aggression, and depression, aswell as full affective syndromes, in athletes and bodybuilderswho used steroids at varying doses. Case reports of psychosismanifested as delusions of reference and visual and auditoryhallucinations have been described,^{18 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259218)} as well as acute schizophrenicepisodes,^{19 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259219)} delirium,^{20 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259220)} mania,^{12 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259212)} and hypomania.^{13 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259213),21 (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/1/66#R259221)} Perry et al.,I lay myself on the line here. I used for two years and never experienced anything close to depression, mood swings or extreme anger. There is a big difference between use and abuse.

But then again, that was when the Bills were on top of the football world and all was well.

This will be used as an indictment against steroid use. The media and everyone else have to find a scapegoat and a reason for what happened, put it in a neat little box to make sense of it. Maybe the guy just had a screw loose, after all he was Canadian.

Bottom line is most of you're professional and Olympic athletes have used or are using performance enhancers, including anabolics.

[35Pete]

CNN reported this AM that the son was peppered with hypodermic trackmarks. Speculation based on initial medical reports is that Benoit was injecting his son with anabolic steroids and human growth hormone because he was slightly dwarfed for his age.

A psychiatrist interviewed said this may be the result of a narcisistic personality. Benoit may have been embarassed and ashamed that his son was so "tiny" and shot him up to make him bigger and to preserve his image of a masculine guy fathering a healthy son.

What a POS.

[dilbert]

I don't buy that reason. Lots of people -- Tim Connolly, for instance -- suffer multiple concussions. I don't see them snapping and murdering their wife and kid.

Why? It can cause issues, but does not always and all concusions are not the same.

It is like smoking: Some get lung cancer from it and some don't, but we all know it is dangerous.

[dilbert]

CNN reported this AM that the son was peppered with hypodermic trackmarks. Speculation based on initial medical reports is that Benoit was injecting his son with anabolic steroids and human growth hormone because he was slightly dwarfed for his age.

A psychiatrist interviewed said this may be the result of a narcisistic personality. Benoit may have been embarassed and ashamed that his son was so "tiny" and shot him up to make him bigger and to preserve his image of a masculine guy fathering a healthy son.

What a POS.

No doubt he is a scumbag, but HGH is often used in uhdersized kids so it might have been medical.

[BF_in_Indiana]

The whole thing is just ridiculous. I mean just the thought of it is absolutely absurd. I mean I notice everyone trying to debate what happened and that's cool but in the end it doesn't really matter. Something went drastically wrong. Although I did notice on that tribute that he didn't look too into it on the ECW show last week. His demeanor seemed a bit different than I remember before.

[gilchristfan]

I lay myself on the line here. I used for two years and never experienced anything close to depression, mood swings or extreme anger. There is a big difference between use and abuse.

Eh, I think you already told us that. On the other hand, lots of wrestlers have stated different effects on them. As have other athletes.


But then again, that was when the Bills were on top of the football world and all was well.

We were all alot happier in those days.


This will be used as an indictment against steroid use. The media and everyone else have to find a scapegoat and a reason for what happened, put it in a neat little box to make sense of it. Maybe the guy just had a screw loose, after all he was Canadian.

Bottom line is most of you're professional and Olympic athletes have used or are using performance enhancers, including anabolics.

Let me preface my statement by reference to my first post. I said it might have been some type of steroid induced hallucination, or it might not have. As I said before, my kids wanted to know how a "good guy" could do something so horrible. That was the explanation I gave them. When asked, I just presented evidence that they can cause some pretty serious psychological side effects, including delusions, psychosis and hallucinations.


As to the steroid issue, well, as you said earlier in your post, there is use, and there is abuse.

Looking at the list of dead wrestlers, its staggering. A wrestler dying of a heart condition between the ages of 25-44 is 12 times the national average, and 20 times that for an NFL player. That doesn't include the deaths from suicide or drug overdose.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1200677

Do you think that wrestler's abuse steroids even more than other sports? It certainly seems like it. Or is it the painkillers? Or the 220 shows they do per year? Or a combination of them?

Whether or not what he did was caused by steroids, wrestling has had, and still has, a serious problem with the issue. Too many deaths for it to be considered a mere coincidence, at least to me.

[35Pete]

No doubt he is a scumbag, but HGH is often used in uhdersized kids so it might have been medical.

Family doctors denied any prescription. He was undersized but within normal limits. They would have never prescribed it. Benoit's boy just wasnt' "big enough".

[sukie]

Benoit was short.

[35Pete]

Gil. I saw steroid-induced psychosis in the ER. Not pretty. Myself and an orderly "Norm", along with 3 security guards literally had to beat the living shit out of the guy to re-restrain him after he BROKE his restraints.

I got a good kidney punch in. What an ass hole.

[pmoon6]

Eh, I think you already told us that. On the other hand, lots of wrestlers have stated different effects on them. As have other athletes.



We were all alot happier in those days.



Let me preface my statement by reference to my first post. I said it might have been some type of steroid induced hallucination, or it might not have. As I said before, my kids wanted to know how a "good guy" could do something so horrible. That was the explanation I gave them. When asked, I just presented evidence that they can cause some pretty serious psychological side effects, including delusions, psychosis and hallucinations.


As to the steroid issue, well, as you said earlier in your post, there is use, and there is abuse.

Looking at the list of dead wrestlers, its staggering. A wrestler dying of a heart condition between the ages of 25-44 is 12 times the national average, and 20 times that for an NFL player. That doesn't include the deaths from suicide or drug overdose.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1200677

Do you think that wrestler's abuse steroids even more than other sports? It certainly seems like it. Or is it the painkillers? Or the 220 shows they do per year? Or a combination of them?

Whether or not what he did was caused by steroids, wrestling has had, and still has, a serious problem with the issue. Too many deaths for it to be considered a mere coincidence, at least to me.Okay, I can't disagree with any of this.

Wrestlers, Bodybuilders and Powerlifters are the biggest users. I think in the other sports athletes don't want to build too much mass because of the pressure it puts on the joints and ligaments. The perfect example of a player getting too big is David Boston, his knees couldn't take the strain of running and cutting with that much weight.

[г]

I had a half-dozen buddies, former football teammates in college who were juicers, at least two of them testified at the Dubin Inquiry (Ben Johnson's inquiry) in 1989 as to how they obtained, shot up, ingested whatever they could get their hands on to get better at playing football.

Honestly, it got to the point where you didn't want to go out to a bar with these guys when they were in full cycle.
The 'roid rage was so bad that one of them would get in a fight, guaranteed. They turn you into one nasty mofo.

[mighty peace warrior]

he had issues way beyond steroids

i can't believe they did a tribute to him

[dilbert]

At the time they only knew he was dead and knew no details. The detectives confirmed this.

[gilchristfan]

Okay, I can't disagree with any of this.

Wrestlers, Bodybuilders and Powerlifters are the biggest users. I think in the other sports athletes don't want to build too much mass because of the pressure it puts on the joints and ligaments. The perfect example of a player getting too big is David Boston, his knees couldn't take the strain of running and cutting with that much weight.

Besides bulk, how much to steroids affect being cut? Do they help with definition?

Take a wrestler like Bobby Lashley. I have a client that knows him, her son wrestled with him in college (both were NAIA wrestlers of the year).

In college, he wrestled at 177. He's now listed at 275, and they probably aren't too far off.

How does someone gain nearly 100 lbs, after college and the weight gain isn't fat.

http://steccato.blog.excite.it/img/Bobby%20Lashley.jpg

In her mind, there was no doubt that he's juicing, you could tell she thought it was sad. Her husband is kind of a legend around here, as a youth and high school wrestling coach. She said he speaks about it all the time to teenagers. But he has the feeling the message isn't really getting through.

[pmoon6]

Besides bulk, how much to steroids affect being cut? Do they help with definition?

Take a wrestler like Bobby Lashley. I have a client that knows him, her son wrestled with him in college (both were NAIA wrestlers of the year).

In college, he wrestled at 177. He's now listed at 275, and they probably aren't too far off.

How does someone gain nearly 100 lbs, after college and the weight gain isn't fat.

http://steccato.blog.excite.it/img/Bobby%20Lashley.jpg

In her mind, there was no doubt that he's juicing, you could tell she thought it was sad. Her husband is kind of a legend around here, as a youth and high school wrestling coach. She said he speaks about it all the time to teenagers. But he has the feeling the message isn't really getting through.It's a process. Steroids are used to build the muscle. Along with faster muscle repair they increase the muscle cells ability to utilize protein. During an 8 week moderate steroid cycle a normal guy can probably put on 15 lbs of muscle and keep 10 after all is said and done. Genetically superior individuals, like your guy in the picture may be able to put on 25 or 30 and keep maybe 20.

Here's how a conservative steroid cycle goes.

You start with 500 mg of Sustenon ( a combo of 4 testosterone esters) injected once a week and 25 mg of Dianabol (orally)in divided doses daily. After the second week you increase to 1000 mg of Sustenon and 50 mg of Dianabol for four weeks, then you taper back down. At the end of the cycle, you start taking Clomid, Cytadren or Arimidix, all anti estrogens, to prevent the rebound effect. The rebound effect is the body compensating for the artificially high testosterone levels by overproducing estrogen which will cut into your gains.

Keep in mind that while during the cycle you have to bust your balls in the gym and consume about 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight daily.

Post cycle you go on what is now known as the Atkins diet, but was the bodybuilders cutting diet long before Dr. Atkins made it popular. You also may want to supplement with Clenbuterol (a powerful fatburner) and maybe Cytomel (a thyroid hormone) to facilitate that hard and cut look.

You are going to put on fat along with the muscle during a steroid cycle so strict diet and the cutting drugs are necessary afterwards if you want definition.

If you want to learn more here's a link to a bodybuilding site that has a forum with guys that are experts.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/

[daschuck77]

yea, its f<b></b>ucked up for sure.



yea, my ass




also really f'ed up, this man had to be really screwed up. maybe roids didnt have a direct effect on the killings/death, but they sure fu<b></b>cked him up bad and made him crazy


That is a detail they didn't revisit during the toxicology reports...